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	<title>Comments on: The Byzantine oracle on the PAP</title>
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	<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/</link>
	<description>a community of Singaporeans</description>
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		<title>By: Of the Singapore Opposition &#171; Winter Is Coming</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/comment-page-1/#comment-860</link>
		<dc:creator>Of the Singapore Opposition &#171; Winter Is Coming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 09:40:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/23/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/#comment-860</guid>
		<description>[...] result in slow decision making. I acknowledge that. However current monopoly too has inherent and historical precedent has shown can lead to stagnation and eventual [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] result in slow decision making. I acknowledge that. However current monopoly too has inherent and historical precedent has shown can lead to stagnation and eventual [...]</p>
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		<title>By: HAKKAisBEST</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/comment-page-1/#comment-859</link>
		<dc:creator>HAKKAisBEST</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2007 19:45:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/23/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/#comment-859</guid>
		<description>I like this part best:&quot;There is no guarantee that PAP would have the competence in the future just because it has long been the ruling party.&quot;

Reminds one of those fine-line rpints in disclaimers by unit trusts, funds, etc, which go something like &quot;Past performance is no indication of future direction ... &quot; Heehee

Well, in any case, HAKKA IS BEST! Deng Xiaoping, Lee Teng Hui, Tan A-peeh The Flat &amp; Flattened Chen Shuibian... anyone else comes to mind?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like this part best:&#8221;There is no guarantee that PAP would have the competence in the future just because it has long been the ruling party.&#8221;</p>
<p>Reminds one of those fine-line rpints in disclaimers by unit trusts, funds, etc, which go something like &#8220;Past performance is no indication of future direction &#8230; &#8221; Heehee</p>
<p>Well, in any case, HAKKA IS BEST! Deng Xiaoping, Lee Teng Hui, Tan A-peeh The Flat &amp; Flattened Chen Shuibian&#8230; anyone else comes to mind?</p>
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		<title>By: theonlinecitizen</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/comment-page-1/#comment-858</link>
		<dc:creator>theonlinecitizen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2007 05:40:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/23/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/#comment-858</guid>
		<description>Hi ex-Old-Guards,

What do you think is needed for Singapore not to &quot;go down the drain&quot;? Or do you think there is absolutely nothing we can do and that it&#039;s only a matter of time before we disintegrate?

Regards,
Andrew</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi ex-Old-Guards,</p>
<p>What do you think is needed for Singapore not to &#8220;go down the drain&#8221;? Or do you think there is absolutely nothing we can do and that it&#8217;s only a matter of time before we disintegrate?</p>
<p>Regards,<br />
Andrew</p>
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		<title>By: ex-Old-Guards</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/comment-page-1/#comment-857</link>
		<dc:creator>ex-Old-Guards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2007 05:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/23/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/#comment-857</guid>
		<description>Actually for more than 30 years, I have been very patriotic in
my heart and I was very proud of my country called Singapore. I held our leaders in very high regards and respect.  I would have been willing to die for them if necessary.

However, over the last 15 years, I started to see the erosion of the more important values and principles, some of which have been mentioned by another post above.  So, I will only mention these:  a sense of fair play, mutual respect, proper decorum, humbleness and humility, compassion and empathy, and truthful integrity.  In fact, the opposite negative traits have surfaced.  They are: unfairness, injustice, greed, shamelessness, callousness, ruthlessness and outright hypocrisy.

I also saw that People have become very miserly and stingy, yet publicly proclaimed by their lackeys as being very generous. I also observed People, instead of showing good examples, they display negative ones. I also felt that People have forgotten how to be humble and began to be very arrogant, haughty, overly-proud and shamelessly greedy. I began to think that People must have been staying in their ivory towers for too long, so much so that they have become over confident, insensitive and extremely calculative.

After contributing so many years of my life in nation building, from the very beginning, during those hectic and unstable pre-independence days, until my health refused to allow me to carry on in the last 10 years, I am now very saddened by the gut feeling deep inside me that whispers to me that Singapore will very soon disintegrate.

However, there is one saving grace.  There is Malaysia to fall back on.  We can rejoin Malaysia again on her terms.  The legacy of the PAP govt can go down to the gutters for all I care. What we the commoners need is very simple:  food, lodging, medical and freedom of movement.

We don&#039;t need to care whether the country will still be 1st World or not.  We don&#039;t have to care whether our leaders are extraordinary or not.  We don&#039;t even to be bothered whether our ministers have to be paid $millions or not.

If you ask me, &quot;Corruption how?&quot;  I would answer you:  Which country in the whole world does not have corruption?  Corruption is part of the nature of people who are power hungry.  And corruption is very broad.  It does not just cover monetary corruption.  It covers favoritism, e.g. giving all the key govt posts to own family members, relatives and friends.  It also covers ill-will, e.g. if you did vote for me your estate will not be upgraded.  It also covers using official status for personal gains, e.g. writing books and promoting their sales while still in the office and using official staff to help in the gathering of data and reference materials.  It also covers abuse of power, e.g. using official power to unjustly arrest and detain an individual without giving him access to legal counsel.

Also, whether money is transferred under the table in the dark or over the table in broad daylight, both are still outright corruptions.  Only difference is that legalized corruption is worst than ordinary corruption.  This is called extraordinarily very high class corruption, where the highly ingenious and innovative perpetrators are protected by the law from anyone who dare to bring them to court.  Only a new govt can bring them to justice.

So, if you ask me: &quot;Will Singapore fall or not?&quot;  I would answer you:  Of course, it would fall.  Its only a matter of time.  If people like me, who are the foundations, have already been very badly shaken, what can prevent it from falling?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually for more than 30 years, I have been very patriotic in<br />
my heart and I was very proud of my country called Singapore. I held our leaders in very high regards and respect.  I would have been willing to die for them if necessary.</p>
<p>However, over the last 15 years, I started to see the erosion of the more important values and principles, some of which have been mentioned by another post above.  So, I will only mention these:  a sense of fair play, mutual respect, proper decorum, humbleness and humility, compassion and empathy, and truthful integrity.  In fact, the opposite negative traits have surfaced.  They are: unfairness, injustice, greed, shamelessness, callousness, ruthlessness and outright hypocrisy.</p>
<p>I also saw that People have become very miserly and stingy, yet publicly proclaimed by their lackeys as being very generous. I also observed People, instead of showing good examples, they display negative ones. I also felt that People have forgotten how to be humble and began to be very arrogant, haughty, overly-proud and shamelessly greedy. I began to think that People must have been staying in their ivory towers for too long, so much so that they have become over confident, insensitive and extremely calculative.</p>
<p>After contributing so many years of my life in nation building, from the very beginning, during those hectic and unstable pre-independence days, until my health refused to allow me to carry on in the last 10 years, I am now very saddened by the gut feeling deep inside me that whispers to me that Singapore will very soon disintegrate.</p>
<p>However, there is one saving grace.  There is Malaysia to fall back on.  We can rejoin Malaysia again on her terms.  The legacy of the PAP govt can go down to the gutters for all I care. What we the commoners need is very simple:  food, lodging, medical and freedom of movement.</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t need to care whether the country will still be 1st World or not.  We don&#8217;t have to care whether our leaders are extraordinary or not.  We don&#8217;t even to be bothered whether our ministers have to be paid $millions or not.</p>
<p>If you ask me, &#8220;Corruption how?&#8221;  I would answer you:  Which country in the whole world does not have corruption?  Corruption is part of the nature of people who are power hungry.  And corruption is very broad.  It does not just cover monetary corruption.  It covers favoritism, e.g. giving all the key govt posts to own family members, relatives and friends.  It also covers ill-will, e.g. if you did vote for me your estate will not be upgraded.  It also covers using official status for personal gains, e.g. writing books and promoting their sales while still in the office and using official staff to help in the gathering of data and reference materials.  It also covers abuse of power, e.g. using official power to unjustly arrest and detain an individual without giving him access to legal counsel.</p>
<p>Also, whether money is transferred under the table in the dark or over the table in broad daylight, both are still outright corruptions.  Only difference is that legalized corruption is worst than ordinary corruption.  This is called extraordinarily very high class corruption, where the highly ingenious and innovative perpetrators are protected by the law from anyone who dare to bring them to court.  Only a new govt can bring them to justice.</p>
<p>So, if you ask me: &#8220;Will Singapore fall or not?&#8221;  I would answer you:  Of course, it would fall.  Its only a matter of time.  If people like me, who are the foundations, have already been very badly shaken, what can prevent it from falling?</p>
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		<title>By: scb</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/comment-page-1/#comment-847</link>
		<dc:creator>scb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 May 2007 06:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/23/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/#comment-847</guid>
		<description>The decline of Singapore has incubated for sometimes in my opinion, it is a cultural decline but one that really matters. I am referring to the value system that has evolved and is progressively evolving steadily and negatively. The sense of patriotism, filial piety, ethics, morality, propriety have almost all gone the way of the dinosaurs. And if anyone thinks that racial and religious differences have been mended over the years, it is far from being so. All kinds of economic, social, cultural and political divides have widened beyond repairs and decline is inevitable unless Singapore is merged with the bigger geopolitical surroundings. Should it insists in maintaining its&#039; individualistic existence amongst its&#039; neighbours, it may end up like the frog that owns the well it dwells in. And that is when it needs helps when the well dries up, it hears the wall of the well echoing his(frogs&#039;) calls(for helps). Or alternatively it lives peacefully alone and dies of maturity which for a frog is&#039;nt too long.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The decline of Singapore has incubated for sometimes in my opinion, it is a cultural decline but one that really matters. I am referring to the value system that has evolved and is progressively evolving steadily and negatively. The sense of patriotism, filial piety, ethics, morality, propriety have almost all gone the way of the dinosaurs. And if anyone thinks that racial and religious differences have been mended over the years, it is far from being so. All kinds of economic, social, cultural and political divides have widened beyond repairs and decline is inevitable unless Singapore is merged with the bigger geopolitical surroundings. Should it insists in maintaining its&#8217; individualistic existence amongst its&#8217; neighbours, it may end up like the frog that owns the well it dwells in. And that is when it needs helps when the well dries up, it hears the wall of the well echoing his(frogs&#8217;) calls(for helps). Or alternatively it lives peacefully alone and dies of maturity which for a frog is&#8217;nt too long.</p>
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		<title>By: Pandemonium</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/comment-page-1/#comment-855</link>
		<dc:creator>Pandemonium</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2007 06:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/23/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/#comment-855</guid>
		<description>Well, the point I&#039;m trying to make here is that most authoritative regimes fail because of deteriorating leadership (which led to population dissatisfaction). Will PAP&#039;s relentless renewal efforts prevent this? It remains much to be seen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, the point I&#8217;m trying to make here is that most authoritative regimes fail because of deteriorating leadership (which led to population dissatisfaction). Will PAP&#8217;s relentless renewal efforts prevent this? It remains much to be seen.</p>
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		<title>By: &#187; Competitive Institutions For Want of a Better Title</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/comment-page-1/#comment-850</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; Competitive Institutions For Want of a Better Title</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2007 00:59:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/23/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/#comment-850</guid>
		<description>[...] has posted about Byzantium and Singapore. I find it interesting the point he makes about the need for competition. He points out that when [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] has posted about Byzantium and Singapore. I find it interesting the point he makes about the need for competition. He points out that when [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jj</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/comment-page-1/#comment-853</link>
		<dc:creator>jj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2007 16:37:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/23/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/#comment-853</guid>
		<description>LKY may have &quot;found&quot; a successor, but he still runs the country, if only as MM. I conclude from this that LKY is ultimately more concerned about his own survival than the survival of Singapore, so in my eyes, he is no hero or patriot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LKY may have &#8220;found&#8221; a successor, but he still runs the country, if only as MM. I conclude from this that LKY is ultimately more concerned about his own survival than the survival of Singapore, so in my eyes, he is no hero or patriot.</p>
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		<title>By: Ned Stark</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/comment-page-1/#comment-848</link>
		<dc:creator>Ned Stark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2007 15:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/23/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/#comment-848</guid>
		<description>Pandemonium,

Alexios actually worried about the problems about succession right until his death bed. But the point is as what Pay and PAy said, even if you do have a successor you have to groom him and there are many unforeseen circumstances so that even if u groom him well, the instant something untoward happens, then you are in trouble. Furthermores the term &quot;talents&quot; is rather debatable and with regards to grooming, it looks more like molly coddling to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pandemonium,</p>
<p>Alexios actually worried about the problems about succession right until his death bed. But the point is as what Pay and PAy said, even if you do have a successor you have to groom him and there are many unforeseen circumstances so that even if u groom him well, the instant something untoward happens, then you are in trouble. Furthermores the term &#8220;talents&#8221; is rather debatable and with regards to grooming, it looks more like molly coddling to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Silent Bok</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/comment-page-1/#comment-854</link>
		<dc:creator>Silent Bok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2007 14:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/23/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/#comment-854</guid>
		<description>The point about mercenaries is spot on. The PAP is resorting to money politics to woo supporters and buy loyalty. The party is already in decline.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The point about mercenaries is spot on. The PAP is resorting to money politics to woo supporters and buy loyalty. The party is already in decline.</p>
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		<title>By: Pay-and-Pay</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/comment-page-1/#comment-849</link>
		<dc:creator>Pay-and-Pay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2007 03:39:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/23/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/#comment-849</guid>
		<description>Just becos pap actively &quot;renews&quot; itself or that our pm is &quot;looking for&quot; a successor, it does not mean sg will not go the same way. the question is whether the successor will be able to fill up the space vacated by the strongman.

in sg, where pap &quot;successors&quot; are walk-ins rather than elected, they command very little respect from the pple.

if it takes losing a few grcs and critical mps as well as resultant chaos to change the direction of sg, i say LET&#039;S DO IT.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just becos pap actively &#8220;renews&#8221; itself or that our pm is &#8220;looking for&#8221; a successor, it does not mean sg will not go the same way. the question is whether the successor will be able to fill up the space vacated by the strongman.</p>
<p>in sg, where pap &#8220;successors&#8221; are walk-ins rather than elected, they command very little respect from the pple.</p>
<p>if it takes losing a few grcs and critical mps as well as resultant chaos to change the direction of sg, i say LET&#8217;S DO IT.</p>
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		<title>By: Pandemonium</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/comment-page-1/#comment-851</link>
		<dc:creator>Pandemonium</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2007 01:39:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/23/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/#comment-851</guid>
		<description>Singapore may &lt;i&gt;probably&lt;/i&gt; not head the way of Byzantine due to the fact that Lee Kuan Yew also recognises the absolute importance of that one man (or group of man), so much so that even in the 1960s, he was already looking for a successor. The key to the longevity of PAP&#039;s hegemony is their ability and will to renew themselves, advising (and even forcing) older members to leave political office (and sometimes at painful costs), as well as their relentless search for new talents. Political renewal is a constant in the PAP&gt; I acknowledge some glaring exceptions, but I think this general rule is obeyed pretty well.

That being said, and since I&#039;m not well versed in history, may I ask if Comnenus has such a focus on successor?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Singapore may <i>probably</i> not head the way of Byzantine due to the fact that Lee Kuan Yew also recognises the absolute importance of that one man (or group of man), so much so that even in the 1960s, he was already looking for a successor. The key to the longevity of PAP&#8217;s hegemony is their ability and will to renew themselves, advising (and even forcing) older members to leave political office (and sometimes at painful costs), as well as their relentless search for new talents. Political renewal is a constant in the PAP&gt; I acknowledge some glaring exceptions, but I think this general rule is obeyed pretty well.</p>
<p>That being said, and since I&#8217;m not well versed in history, may I ask if Comnenus has such a focus on successor?</p>
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		<title>By: Ned Stark</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/comment-page-1/#comment-856</link>
		<dc:creator>Ned Stark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 13:21:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/23/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/#comment-856</guid>
		<description>Yes it has been said that the decline traces its roots during the sack of Constantinople during the Fourth Crusade. However note that the rulers at that time, the Angelids, were ill equipped to deal with the Western Crusaders, as compared to the Commnenid rulers. And by that time the Byzantines had gotten to dependant on their Emperors such that there was no inherent system to kick in should there be no competent direction from the ruling Emperor, which was the case with the Angelids.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes it has been said that the decline traces its roots during the sack of Constantinople during the Fourth Crusade. However note that the rulers at that time, the Angelids, were ill equipped to deal with the Western Crusaders, as compared to the Commnenid rulers. And by that time the Byzantines had gotten to dependant on their Emperors such that there was no inherent system to kick in should there be no competent direction from the ruling Emperor, which was the case with the Angelids.</p>
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		<title>By: JK</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/comment-page-1/#comment-852</link>
		<dc:creator>JK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 12:12:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/05/23/the-byzantine-oracle-on-the-pap/#comment-852</guid>
		<description>The point about the dangers of one-person benevolent rule applies to most systems that have them. Having said that, your point about the Byzantine empire is somewhat controversial. Most historians would point the the decline to the sacking of Constantinople in 1204 by Catholic Christian crusaders, or some point after that ( don&#039;t ask me I&#039;m not a historian by trade).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The point about the dangers of one-person benevolent rule applies to most systems that have them. Having said that, your point about the Byzantine empire is somewhat controversial. Most historians would point the the decline to the sacking of Constantinople in 1204 by Catholic Christian crusaders, or some point after that ( don&#8217;t ask me I&#8217;m not a historian by trade).</p>
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