Minority opinion as in Zakir Naik – not you !

I disagree with your “no secularism”. but u simply brushed off my opinion and IT IS I WHO HAS TO GO AND READ MORE? why dont YOU read more on secularism in Islam?

Your opinion is better than mine because you’re the “majority”? who is the majority?
one fellow against the majority – according to who? by whose benchmarks? Who says the majority has to be the right opinion? again, you make dismissive and sweeping statements.

On O and A levels in madrasahs, this is a problem in your eyes (and those others you mentioned), but not others, like me.

“Some people believe becoming Singaporean means you dilute Islam”.

Some people – meaning you, i guess. I dont agree with that statement. I on the other hand, feel that I can be a good Muslim, a good Singaporean, and at the same time keeping my identity as a Malay.

As far as i’m concerned, in Singapore, I am allowed to practice my religion, at the same time, i’m urged to work/study hard and earn some financial success. I dont see how this is compromising our faith. As long as I keep my faith and keep my feet on the ground, i dont see anything wrong with me wanting to do well (as the Govt wants me to).

as far as i know, its (O and A levels) already been around in some madrasahs. my sister went through the system in AlMaarif. correct me if i’m wrong here.

I see this as a further refinement of the system. in my opinion, I dont think it will dilute Islamic teaching but instead produce more rounded students. From what i read, students are allowed to either focus on more Islamic topics, more standard secular topics, or a mix of both. MUIS, the headmasters of the madrasahs, and the Education Ministry are working together to make sure it all works.

I say its a worthwhile and progressive move – at least give it a try first.

U disagree with this and and brush me off as a minority opinion. U cant seem to accept that I disagree with you.

but unfortunately, rather than giving a good argument to try to make me understand, or sway my opinion, you take on a confrontational position and claim “the majority is right”, “we cannot argue about Islam”, or “you dont know enough to even understand. Go read”.

and this is why i feel its tiring discussing with you. We’re going round in circles.

Ok – now this time, i promise…i will no longer comment on this topic. thanks.

I have explained the problem. By insisting on O and A level certs, we are subjecting our madrasah students to an unreasonable load. Are we then to dilute Islamic education ? And if so – will we produce madrasah graduates capable of entering al Azhar ?

Secondly, the common basic Islamic education system at the mosques is now to be modified into something which MOST parents find to be thoroughly diluted. Yes – parents are responsible for teaching Fardhu Ain Kifayah. But why then dilute the basic Islamic education at mosques ?

I am now of the view that Singapore Muslims should just go ahead and set up private Islamic schools like Andalus etc. And should MUIS fail to produce al-Azhar qualified ulamas etc – we have no choice but to import ulamas from our neighbouring Muslim countries like Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei etc. Of course when that happens, I have no doubt that MUIS will be discredited !

Now as far as integration is concerned – there is a limit to it. As long as we do not compromise our Islamic identity and practices – its fine. But some people believe that to be a good Singaporean – we must dilute Islam. This I reject.

As for Zakir Naik – thats only one point of view. Read more Islam please. There is such a thing called “jumhur ulama”. There is such a thing called the ijma’(or concensus) of the ulama. One fellow disagreeing with the majority means nothing ! Check on the majority view. READ.

Any more comments from “us people”, did u say? aah, i see now, there’s you and there’s us, eh?

I’ve asked you a few things:

- educate “us people” who dont know enough about madrasah issue. Maybe we might be swayed by better information. But rather than educate us, you already made a judgement we’re not worthy to argue with you. and you want to continue with a confrontational tone. so i give up.

- i said all along its up to parents to give the best Islamic education for their children. You instead keep harping about govt interference in Islamic education, getting poor religious teachers in the future etc etc…

Now you’re back to fardhu ain and kifayah – back to basic Islamic education. Which comes back to my earlier assertion – a parent can choose whats best for his children.

- now, after all that, you say we we can import islamic teachers (i.e. FT for religious teaching), if our proposed system is not good enough. we already do import religious teachers, as i grew up with Indonesian and Malaysian trained ones, which i said earlier.

We are just going round in circles, and you seem to be arguing for arguing’s sake.

You’re certainly unhappy with the govt, MUIS etc – which i dont. i see them as making progessive steps. You clearly dont agree with me and you’re not open to discussion, so i shall not continue.

- to quote you “there is no secularism in Islam”. in my opinion, thats a neo-con, right-wing view, which i dont share. If there’s no secularism in Islam, then why even bother about worldly activities? On youtube, Dr Naik discusses Islam and Secularism. quite eye-opening.

- I also said that we’re straying away from the main blog – which is about malays in the mainstream. the blog was about integration into the bigger Singapore agenda. Yet you still want to keep on this track about madrasahs – about treating Malays/Muslims differently. You dont want to discuss this too.

Sir, i wish you well.

Anymore comments from you people ? Those who are well connected with the Muslim grassroots can see what is happening in society today…..

There is NO NEED to set up a Muslim opposition party. Such a party will be painted as being extremist and the PAP will simply frighten the Chinese voters away. Even if it is a moderate Muslim party – there is no guarantee that the PAP will not infiltrate it with extremist elements in order to portray it as radical.

The issue before us here is simple – basic Islamic education. Farhu Ain & Fardhu Kifayah. Why the need to go so far ?

There are many private religious schools. Demand and Supply. Free market. Here is a business opportunity. Lets set up more schools like Andalus ! And mosques can always import ulamas from neighbouring Muslim countries.

I don’t have visions etc. I go to mosque on Fridays and people talk about similar issues. Basically one does NOT need an Islamic party. Its just FARDHU AIN & FARDHU KIFAYAH. Easy stuff. Solat, Fiqh, Tahlil, Zakat etc etc. In any case – I am now of the opinion that perhaps PRIVATE RELIGIOUS SCHOOLS like Andalus etc holds the key.

Why set up an opposition party when all we need is a simple school teaching Fardhu Ain & Fardhu Kifayah ? Truly – the demand for Islamic education in Singapore is very high. Hence private religious schools have sprung up. In any case – we can always IMPORT ustaz & ustazah from Malaysia, Indonesia and even Brunei. When that happens – too bad for MUIS !

Its a free world. Demand and supply. Singapore fails to deliver – we look elsewhere. MUIS fails to deliver – we set up our own private schools ! Long live capitalism. Long live the free market !

Of course – IF an Islamic party is formed – it will NOT get Chinese votes to win. The PAP will frighten the Chinese voters away. Thats what happens in Malaysia anyway. Similarly the Chinese dominated opposition parties also cannot get Malay votes. Only a MODERATE Muslim party JOINING HANDS with the largely Chinese Opposition has a chance of winning. Thats how UMNO rules Malaysia. If you want a Muslim Opposition – then it must be moderate in its views. Not PAS.

This issue has been brought to the attention of MUIS, the Malay-Muslim MP’s etc etc by many people, parents, ustaz and ustazah, PERGAS etc.

It seems to me that you are extremely passionate about this madrasah issue, that every other Malay/Muslim in singapore must conform to your opinion. So much so that you’re not even open to hear differing opinions on this topic (which i have to say again, is swaying way beyond the original post by Kamal).

You even go all the way to make a judgement that we’re not informed enough and not in a position to comment.

I think it’ll be much more helpful if you inform and share, rather than take a confrontational stance and tell us we’re not worthy to argue with you. Who knows – perhaps we might sway to your opinion.

But, in the end, I think you should take on a better platform to take your passion to – that is to bring this to MUIS and the madrasahs who agreed to follow the program, rather than head towards an argument on a blog.

I’m all for integration, progress and dynamism (i.e. to try something new and see if it results in something better), if it means bringing the Malays more into the mainstream.

I trust Dr Yaakub, Alami Musa, my Mufti, to do the best that they can do for the community. They didnt say “hey, we’re different, we need to be treated differently, leave us alone.”

At least they stood up and took on a heavy responsibility, trying to get Islam, Muslims and Malays integrated into the bigger Singaporean picture. Indeed, its a big task with many differing opinions, complexities and levels of passion.

I agree with your views. Certainly the current influx of foreigners into Singapore is very threatening to us Singaporeans. We are NOT importing the geniuses of China, India etc. What we get are often those who failed to migrate to the good old US of A. And given half a chance – many of these foreign talent will eventually make their way to America, Australia etc. Singapore is cheating herself if she thinks they are here on an ideological or cultural basis. Its pure economics ! And when the going gets tough – it will be economics too that will be a decisive factor for them. In Singapore – its all about money…Sadly even Islam has become commercialised in Singapore. Can’t our leaders look beyond money ? Is merit to be interpreted only along materialistic lines ?

To me – merit must also include other dimensions of the human condition. Honesty, integrity, humility, family values, loyalty and so on – are some intangibles which must be factored into what constitutes merit. Otherwise by what yardstick do we judge merit ? Only financial success ? Only academics ?

Indeed – today we speak of Multiple Intelligences (Gardner’s theory). We talk of EQ besides IQ. We talk of Spiritual Quotient and the Adversity Quotient. Gone are the days where we focus mainly on IQ. The Emotional Quotient (EQ) is just as important.

We have to make a quantum leap beyond merely academic and financial success as measures of merit.

Seen in the aforesaid dimension, I am inclined to feel let down by our leaders and also feel that they are irresponsible. And should they indeed settle abroad whence there are problems and or to spend their wealths accrued from holding political offices here, then I think I will never be able to find words to describe them.

Lastly, I like to say to our Malay and other race Singaporeans that seen in this context of national(our) survival problems, everyone is equally affected, only the largest race, namely the Chinese are affected in the greatest numbers. Let us unite and try to help ourselves instead of squabbling amongst us.

You have made a good point – which is basically the identity of being a Singaporean. The influx of such a huge number of foreigners will, without doubt, have an impact on how we see ourselves. And as the govt focuses on bringing and attracting even more foreigners, Singaporeans – esp the less abled, poorer ones – will feel a sense of alienation in their own country.

It is rather noticeable that the govt has, of late, abandoned its earlier rhetoric of trying to institute a “Singaporean identity” – something which was part of its public statements and speeches in the late 80s and early 90s.

Now, all we hear about are globalisation, attracting foreign talents, and so on. The “Singaporean identity” seems to have been ignored at worst, or put on temporary obscurity, at best.

With regards to the article, I do not speak with any authority or with much personal experience in this, but I do feel that minority races in Singapore may feel the alienation even more deeply than the average majority-race Singaporean.

It is thus important that the govt steer away from constantly trumpeting the merits of foreigners and begin to identify itself with Singaporeans born and bred here.

The constant exhortation for us to accept foreigners is beginning to get on the nerves of a lot of Singaporeans – esp with the rising cost of living, where the benefits of having foreigners here (as trumpeted by the govt) is not experienced in our everyday life.

I say Singapore is in danger of disintegrations if the present intakes of foreigners are not stopped or curtailed.

We can clearly see something similar in nature to that of the Pakistanis; people of the same race and religion(belief) disagreeing on ‘how to integrate into the society(reads country)’. How to define ‘their own identities’ in racial/religious terms, albeit this time in a non homogenous country. Although Pakistan is almost homogenous in race/religion, it is also multi faceted in different tribes and factions in Islam(sunni,shites etc). Hence, we can see the complexities and thus the delicate situation this tiny country faces.

A dire situation has arises due to the viability, I would rather use the word survivals of the citizenry or the average local born man in the street. The Leadership seems to say that, ‘yes, we are trying to save/support you(the people) by bringing in others(foreigners) ‘to save you’. But I think they(the leaders) are messing up the whole issue for liking(even loving) the aliens more than their own compatriots.The Leaders want the woods and not the trees although the former derives from the latter. Do they(leaders) crossed the river and destroyed the bridge? Personally, I think they do and therfore believe that they are not grateful and totally lack foresight.

With their WORLD RECORD emoluments, one aspect of their(leaders) own livelihoods is ensure; a life of luxuries/opulence ANYWHERE. But to return to the Topic, I like to reiterate that agree to disagree or disagree to agree mean only two unpleasant words: diversity means differences which are likely to lead to contradictions and conflicts. Should turmoils/calamities beset this tiny landpiece, those who can ENJOY LIVING ANYWHERE will likely abandon all the ‘problems of the country’. Don’t take my words, check if anyone in the leadership has ever ‘admitted any personal weaknesses’. I do not expects them to do so for it goes against their own tagging of been talented, if not born genius.

No – I do not believe that we can follow the Malaysians simply because we are a small minority here – whereas Muslims are a majority in Malaysia. What I am asking for is for the Malay-Muslim MP’s to be more pro-active regarding Islam. To make sure that our madrasahs and mosques are not compromised. To make sure that Islam is not diluted.

On the other hand – yes – I do NOT believe that our Malay-Muslims can fill in sensitive positions in Singapore. Why ? Because of a serious conflict of interest. Whose interest comes first ? Muslims in South East Asia or Singapore’s Non-Muslim majority ? It is in the interest of Singapore’s Non-Muslim majority to get access to the consumer markets and natural resources of her Muslim neighbours. But it is also in the interest of the Muslims to favour the Bumiputra and Pribumi in any business deal. Will Singapore respect such wishes ? Will you as a Muslim – favour Singapore’s majority Non-Muslims over the Muslims in neighbouring countries ? Will you shoot at an Indonesian Muslim soldier ? Are you willing to uphold the political interests of Singapore’s Non-Muslim majority – even at the expense of Muslims elsewhere ?

I am thoroughly convinced that it is perhaps better for us Singaporean Muslims NOT to hold sensitive positions. Maybe you have your own ideas. But for the majority of Singapore’s Muslims, we want progress WITHOUT losing Islam. In other words we are NOT prepared to downplay our Muslim identity just to fit into Singaporean society. There will never be a Singaporean first and Muslim second. It will always be “I am a Singaporean Muslim.” It goes hand in hand. Today we have many private religious schools like Andalus etc. Why ? Because parents feel the dilution factor and want proper Islamic education. These private schools are in great demand because of the attempts to dilute Islamic education.

There will never come a time when we are fully integrated. We have to accept Unity in Diversity. Binneka Ike Tunggal. We cannot be homogeneous nor can we ignore the role and importance of Islam in our lives. We want Halal food. We want Islamic burial practices etc. We want to progress BUT WITHOUT losing Islam………

I think that you have absolutely no clue as to what the recent changes in Islamic education will imply. The business of religious education is NOT to produce O and A level certs. Yes – we need asatizahs who can relate to society. So secular subjects are a must. But do you know what it takes to produce an al-Azhar qualified ustaz or ulama ?

The proposed system takes too much from the religious subjects because it imposes an UNREASONABLE LOAD on the students. Do we then reduce the Islamic content ? Do we then reduce the Arabic content ? Do you even know what the entry requirements are for al-Azhar ? I do not think so. I stand by PERGAS in their last public statement on the madrasah issue. I agree with PERGAS. I hope PERGAS will keep monitoring the situation – especially the curriculum.

Don’t compare Singapore with Malaysia because Islam is guaranteed in Malaysia. Not so in Singapore. You mean to tell me Islam is at risk in Malaysia ? No way ! Singapore is NOT Malaysia. Muslims form only 15% of Singapore’s population whereas Muslims form 60% of Malaysia’s population. Yes – I debate on Malaysian blogs and that is precisely why I can see the threat to Islam in Singapore via DILUTION. Indeed my debates on Malaysian blogs has convinced me of the dangers of dilution of Islam in Singapore. I guess if we fail to produce well qualified ulamas – then we will just have to IMPORT qualified ustaz and ulamas from Malaysia, Indonesia and Brunei.

As for Mufti, MUIS etc – these are all quasi-Government bodies. Did the Muslim community vote in Alami Musa to head MUIS ? Do we have a say on who is to be our Mufti ? I would not vote for many of the current personalities – but they are instead appointed by the Government. The Muslim community has no choice in this matter.

I think that you people are simply not familiar with the issues involved. You have no clue as to what the proposed system will imply – especially in view of the need to produce well qualified ulamas and asatizahs.

As for the integration of Malays – we can never ever fully integrate into Singaporean society precisely because of Islam ! Muslims have a different world-view, value-system and even aspiration. For the majority of Muslims here – yes we want material progress BUT NOT AT THE PRICE OF LOSING ISLAM. For us Islam is a major constraint and is of paramount importance. Those who ignore this reality will not survive long politically. We cannot invent some kind of a new version of Islam.

Tell me – what will be the future of our madrasahs under the new system ? And tell me – what will the future of Islamic education be under the new system ? Will we still produce good asatizahs and ulamas ? Or will that come to an end ? You are talking about the PAST and not the future. Please address the current situation and the proposed changes to Islamic education and what it will entail.

I read thoroughly bout the new system JMS…it actually provide balance of both Islamic education…and academic and at the same time will still continue to produce ulamas and asatizah…so what is so wrong bout that and why are u so against it…..it’s not the end of islamic education…in Singapore in fact it provide well balanced/maintained student that will contribute to the muslims in Singapore…and i guess if you think that it’s not right…it’s totally out of the Islamic context…then i suggest you wrote to MUIS and held a debate with them…we’ll see then between a doctor and a well qualified Islamic scholar that is our mufti…who will be more…outstanding in the debate..

As for our Malay Muslim MP’s – no one
is asking them to devote 100% of their time to Islamic issues. But obviously they are currently devoting ZERO to Islam. And thats NOT acceptable.

Pls make a thorough reserach about the role of Malay MP’s duties…in the context of PAP…not UMNO/PAS in M’sia…mufti has the responsibility in delivering Islamic issue to muslims and it seems you are saying that our mufti is not doing a good job…in educating our muslims where his qualifications is of the highest in the Islamic world..

am NOT a progressive Muslim. I am simply a Muslim who tries hard to follow the dictates of Islam. I too travel the region and I find that Islam in Singapore “hanya sekadar bermegah megah tanpa keikhlasan” !

I suggest you don’t try hard…i find that you have gone overboard…way over…from your writing and comments posted it seems you are a frog under a skull…what more of sincerity you are asking??it seems u are saying efforts make by us all these years and also MUIS has considerably fail you…as a Singapore muslim…how long have u been staying here??

I am NOT impressed by pretty mosques and nice computers. I am more impressed by the spirituality of the Indonesian pesantren. I am more impressed by the urgency of Malaysian Islam. Here in Singapore – Islam has become lip-service and thoroughly plastic. And mind you – I too travel the region.

If you admired the Indonesia pasentren…then pls go ahead stay in Indonesia…they will definitely welcome u down there… for your info Indonesia govt do not mix religion and politics…and by the way pls donate to their mosque fund…i find that their mosque is in tatters of which i must say u would like it that way in tatters but of high spiritually and Malaysia islam…muslim in M’sia has in fact mix between race and religion…in one of the m’sia blogs i read your comments u are so against of their obsessed in religion and at the same time their mentality crutch…for myself personally i do not wish to be like them obsessed with their special priviliged until they forget where they stand in this world…so which side are u…??still defending for them their special rights..they are in fact fighting among themselves bout religion and also their special rights… i guess it’s good for you to travel there and try to solve their complex confusion…and finally if u find that we muslim here practised in a plastic mosque…and also plastic madrasah…pls compare the state/fact..between muslims in Singapore/Indonesia/Malaysia…

But that is why the Government should NOT step in to dilute Islamic education. Leave it to the community and stop trying to dilute Islamic education.

It’s the community who agreed to the JMS in the madrasah that was introduced by Minister yaacob by the advise of mufti…first u say govt not allowed muslims to deem fit practised our religion…then now u say govt has stepped in…so??
your comments remind me of how defensive and critical of especially malaysia malays argue about topics ranging from economic till their bumiputera status…you sounds like them…and finally paranoid…pls be consistent in your arguement because i do not see any sense in your vague arguements…it seems you are able to argue well in malaysian blogs than here…
I stand firmly in the comments i stated as i say it’s important for muslims to have balanced of both akhirat and dunia..and also u have in fact turn the blog topic into religion…where do u stand??

Dr Alwi also wrote:

“Tell me – what will be the future of our madrasahs under the new system ? And tell me – what will the future of Islamic education be under the new system ? Will we still produce good asatizahs and ulamas ? Or will that come to an end ? You are talking about the PAST and not the future. Please address the current situation and the proposed changes to Islamic education and what it will entail.”

I think it is you, Dr Alwi, who is talking about the past.

What will the future of madrasahs and Islamic teaching will be in the future? Who knows – its a work-in-progress. But we shouldn’t stop trying to improve things. we have to try and see if it make things better.

As far as i know, bringing O and A level systems led more of our students being better able to gain entry into prestigious Islamic universities such as Al Azhar, and those in Malaysia. I believe the younger imams and ustazahs in the mosques today are the result of this change.

I would also believe that this new system will create asatizahs and ulamas who are better at commenting on both syariah AND civic laws, better at advising on Islamic finance, banking and insurance, better at educating cross-cultural and cross-religious issues faced in Singapore.

Dr Zakir Naik – one of my favourite Islamic speakers – was from a medical profession before he turned to dakwah and teaching Islam. I wonder what kind of educational background he grew up in. His bio is on wikipedia – have a look.

As it this, i grew up with the madrasahs in the mosques. My ustazahs and ustazs were, ironically, trained in the Indonesian and Malaysian religious schools anyway.

so i suggest we be more open-minded, and let things develop first before jumping to conclusions.

Are you familiar with what is being taught at the mosques and madrasahs ? Are you familiar with the methodology and subjects involved in Islamic education ? If you are – then you will understand why many parents feel that the Government is trying to dilute Islamic education.