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	<title>Comments on: Politics and the place of doctors &#8211; Part 1</title>
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	<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/01/politics-and-the-place-of-doctors-part-1/</link>
	<description>a community of Singaporeans</description>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/01/politics-and-the-place-of-doctors-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-155185</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 02:25:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/politics-and-the-place-of-doctors-part-1/#comment-155185</guid>
		<description>george, im just reading this 2 yrs on as i am about to come back to spore to work in 2011. well, doctors must use their position in the society to influence and i will be trying to get a MPH from the States and we&#039;ll see what what happens however i reassure u  the gen Y doctors ARE different (be it from overseas or locally NUS YLL or Duke SOM trained) so its really exciting to be coming back in this decade to be involved in it all.  90hr work weeks will only make us stronger and patients generally dont suffer (i hope). there are no published studies documenting the &quot;july effect&quot; in Singapore and if some kind med student in YLL or Duke is reading this, you should surely take on this project and publish it because it will have wider implications on YOUR lifestyle. its too late for me so i think i &quot;lan lan suck thumb&quot; seeya all when im back warmest regards,jeff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>george, im just reading this 2 yrs on as i am about to come back to spore to work in 2011. well, doctors must use their position in the society to influence and i will be trying to get a MPH from the States and we&#8217;ll see what what happens however i reassure u  the gen Y doctors ARE different (be it from overseas or locally NUS YLL or Duke SOM trained) so its really exciting to be coming back in this decade to be involved in it all.  90hr work weeks will only make us stronger and patients generally dont suffer (i hope). there are no published studies documenting the &#8220;july effect&#8221; in Singapore and if some kind med student in YLL or Duke is reading this, you should surely take on this project and publish it because it will have wider implications on YOUR lifestyle. its too late for me so i think i &#8220;lan lan suck thumb&#8221; seeya all when im back warmest regards,jeff</p>
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		<title>By: Politics and the place of doctors (part 1) &#171; monash medical student</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/01/politics-and-the-place-of-doctors-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-4097</link>
		<dc:creator>Politics and the place of doctors (part 1) &#171; monash medical student</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 10:28:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/politics-and-the-place-of-doctors-part-1/#comment-4097</guid>
		<description>[...] and the place of doctors (part&#160;1)  10 03 2008   A while ago, i wrote this article for The Online Citizen, a socio-political blog focusing on Singapore current affairs and politics. They did not publish my [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and the place of doctors (part&nbsp;1)  10 03 2008   A while ago, i wrote this article for The Online Citizen, a socio-political blog focusing on Singapore current affairs and politics. They did not publish my [...]</p>
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		<title>By: update &#171; monash medical student</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/01/politics-and-the-place-of-doctors-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-4095</link>
		<dc:creator>update &#171; monash medical student</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 07:57:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/politics-and-the-place-of-doctors-part-1/#comment-4095</guid>
		<description>[...] i have also written an article named &#8220;Politics and the place of doctors&#8221;, and part 1 is published at a Singaporean current affairs blog, The Online Citizen. I joined it a while back [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] i have also written an article named &#8220;Politics and the place of doctors&#8221;, and part 1 is published at a Singaporean current affairs blog, The Online Citizen. I joined it a while back [...]</p>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/01/politics-and-the-place-of-doctors-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-4096</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 15:05:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/politics-and-the-place-of-doctors-part-1/#comment-4096</guid>
		<description>Yes Jeff, I can imagine the difficulties you allude to. But unless individual doctors take a stand, and like-minded ones come together to foster/promote a cause they truly believe in, the status quo will remain.The path of least resistance is usually the more comfortable one to take. But, I do appreciate why doctors here not among those taking such initiatives. The heavy workload is one I can think off. I have doctor friends and I really appreciate their work dedication.

But at the end someone must do something. Perhaps, a majority of doctors are in inertia because they are very comfortable, very work oriented, very indiffernt to what&#039;s happening outside their professional job scope to change.

That&#039;s my lament.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes Jeff, I can imagine the difficulties you allude to. But unless individual doctors take a stand, and like-minded ones come together to foster/promote a cause they truly believe in, the status quo will remain.The path of least resistance is usually the more comfortable one to take. But, I do appreciate why doctors here not among those taking such initiatives. The heavy workload is one I can think off. I have doctor friends and I really appreciate their work dedication.</p>
<p>But at the end someone must do something. Perhaps, a majority of doctors are in inertia because they are very comfortable, very work oriented, very indiffernt to what&#8217;s happening outside their professional job scope to change.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s my lament.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/01/politics-and-the-place-of-doctors-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-4093</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 18:27:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/politics-and-the-place-of-doctors-part-1/#comment-4093</guid>
		<description>George, point taken. However i think perhaps you misunderstand that i am trying to justify for the actions of Singapore or whichever doctor has rendered treatment. That is NOT the intention of the introduction (using Burma) as i have mentioned in the same comment (no.6).

But i take it to you if it were so easy, you should try being a doctor someday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George, point taken. However i think perhaps you misunderstand that i am trying to justify for the actions of Singapore or whichever doctor has rendered treatment. That is NOT the intention of the introduction (using Burma) as i have mentioned in the same comment (no.6).</p>
<p>But i take it to you if it were so easy, you should try being a doctor someday.</p>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/01/politics-and-the-place-of-doctors-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-4094</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 13:02:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/politics-and-the-place-of-doctors-part-1/#comment-4094</guid>
		<description>Jeff,
The 4 tenets are right, noble principles - when considered without a real world context.

They are first principles of decent, moral people (doctors?)But they cannot apply in a context when abiding by/upholding them would result in deprivation of/in clear cruel violation of these same ideals for others, in the context of Burma, millions of other people.

Are doctors, by going by the letter without considering the spirit of their oaths, dishonouring their own code and themselves?

In the real world, taking refuge behind the H.O. in the context of helping a dictator perpetuate his misdeeds is an unconscionable cop-out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff,<br />
The 4 tenets are right, noble principles &#8211; when considered without a real world context.</p>
<p>They are first principles of decent, moral people (doctors?)But they cannot apply in a context when abiding by/upholding them would result in deprivation of/in clear cruel violation of these same ideals for others, in the context of Burma, millions of other people.</p>
<p>Are doctors, by going by the letter without considering the spirit of their oaths, dishonouring their own code and themselves?</p>
<p>In the real world, taking refuge behind the H.O. in the context of helping a dictator perpetuate his misdeeds is an unconscionable cop-out.</p>
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		<title>By: MJ</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/01/politics-and-the-place-of-doctors-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-4087</link>
		<dc:creator>MJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 14:37:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/politics-and-the-place-of-doctors-part-1/#comment-4087</guid>
		<description>Pissed, I believe that the means testing for class C wards was implemented to prevent the abuse of the healthcare system. This measure is also to free up the space in class C for those who truly need them. Ideally, this system would ensure that every citizen would have affordable healthcare (which would be scaled according to what their income is) and yet provide welfare to the needy, which is a good balance to have in society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pissed, I believe that the means testing for class C wards was implemented to prevent the abuse of the healthcare system. This measure is also to free up the space in class C for those who truly need them. Ideally, this system would ensure that every citizen would have affordable healthcare (which would be scaled according to what their income is) and yet provide welfare to the needy, which is a good balance to have in society.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/01/politics-and-the-place-of-doctors-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-4090</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 08:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/politics-and-the-place-of-doctors-part-1/#comment-4090</guid>
		<description>Charles, i certainly agree with what you say. Sometimes i really wonder if what we think really matter. When it comes down to the crunch, will we even get to vote? (i live in clementi and my parents never vote; i think its a walkover all the time). And, if we vote, will we, amid all these issues, still vote someone else?

Anon (Jan 4, 1.57am), actually i put up the Burma thing is just to kick off what i was about to say: &quot;the point that in an ideal world, the health care profession is in no place to deny treatment because this is directly contradictory to the instincts and ethics of our age-old profession. However, that does not stop healthcare professionals from having political slants or viewpoints about matters.&quot; i hope it wasn&#039;t too abrupt. this should be contended for/agsinst, but it was done on purpose to spark some lively comment-exchange.

And this brings me to answer George&#039;s comments:

great questions. however i doubt i can answer them, maybe we should leave it to the lawyers. but the 4 main tenets of biomedical ethics are clear: beneficence (do good), non-maleficence (first do no harm), equity/justice, and autonomy.  these are ideals. i guess what i&#039;m saying is that its not always easy (at least to me) to fulfill all of them. and this was told to me by a tutor who&#039;s a medical lawyer. we were advised that as long as we can justify our actions, no one can actually sue you.

there&#039;s still much to learn..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charles, i certainly agree with what you say. Sometimes i really wonder if what we think really matter. When it comes down to the crunch, will we even get to vote? (i live in clementi and my parents never vote; i think its a walkover all the time). And, if we vote, will we, amid all these issues, still vote someone else?</p>
<p>Anon (Jan 4, 1.57am), actually i put up the Burma thing is just to kick off what i was about to say: &#8220;the point that in an ideal world, the health care profession is in no place to deny treatment because this is directly contradictory to the instincts and ethics of our age-old profession. However, that does not stop healthcare professionals from having political slants or viewpoints about matters.&#8221; i hope it wasn&#8217;t too abrupt. this should be contended for/agsinst, but it was done on purpose to spark some lively comment-exchange.</p>
<p>And this brings me to answer George&#8217;s comments:</p>
<p>great questions. however i doubt i can answer them, maybe we should leave it to the lawyers. but the 4 main tenets of biomedical ethics are clear: beneficence (do good), non-maleficence (first do no harm), equity/justice, and autonomy.  these are ideals. i guess what i&#8217;m saying is that its not always easy (at least to me) to fulfill all of them. and this was told to me by a tutor who&#8217;s a medical lawyer. we were advised that as long as we can justify our actions, no one can actually sue you.</p>
<p>there&#8217;s still much to learn..</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/01/politics-and-the-place-of-doctors-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-4086</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 17:57:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/politics-and-the-place-of-doctors-part-1/#comment-4086</guid>
		<description>Wow This Sure is Against Doctor&#039;s opinion and Australia.I wonder Why? Hmmm some of our MP are doctors. What is the real intention of this blog post? And you are purposely putting moral issues that of Burma and expanding it.What motivates you? Well This will be that perfect example of Biased reporting as put fro by a certain editor of someplace:P. OR I&#039;m just spouting nonsense,must be the latter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow This Sure is Against Doctor&#8217;s opinion and Australia.I wonder Why? Hmmm some of our MP are doctors. What is the real intention of this blog post? And you are purposely putting moral issues that of Burma and expanding it.What motivates you? Well This will be that perfect example of Biased reporting as put fro by a certain editor of someplace:P. OR I&#8217;m just spouting nonsense,must be the latter.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/01/politics-and-the-place-of-doctors-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-4089</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 09:09:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/politics-and-the-place-of-doctors-part-1/#comment-4089</guid>
		<description>Question 1: Is there inertia among the healthcare professionals in Singapore with regard to politics? Why do you think this is so?

My ans: Yes, there is inertia among the healthcare professionals in Singapore with regards to politics. This is not surprising since the government has managed to depoliticized the various sectors within the Singapore society. If it can and has managed to muzzle the voice of the law society, surely, it has instilled the same discipline to the medical professionals.

Question 2: Do you think there is a great divide between what is being implemented by the Health Ministry and what the doctors actually want best for the patient? If so, why? What do you hope can be implemented?

Ans: Not so much about doctores but healthcare in Singapore should be made more affordable to the public, perhaps even free, at least to those who cannot afford it. This is in light of the obscene salaries our ministers are getting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Question 1: Is there inertia among the healthcare professionals in Singapore with regard to politics? Why do you think this is so?</p>
<p>My ans: Yes, there is inertia among the healthcare professionals in Singapore with regards to politics. This is not surprising since the government has managed to depoliticized the various sectors within the Singapore society. If it can and has managed to muzzle the voice of the law society, surely, it has instilled the same discipline to the medical professionals.</p>
<p>Question 2: Do you think there is a great divide between what is being implemented by the Health Ministry and what the doctors actually want best for the patient? If so, why? What do you hope can be implemented?</p>
<p>Ans: Not so much about doctores but healthcare in Singapore should be made more affordable to the public, perhaps even free, at least to those who cannot afford it. This is in light of the obscene salaries our ministers are getting.</p>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/01/politics-and-the-place-of-doctors-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-4091</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 08:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/politics-and-the-place-of-doctors-part-1/#comment-4091</guid>
		<description>From my observation, it takes a certain makeup to be a doctor. Doctors are by and large, apolitical, highly skilled &#039;technicians&#039;- for which a lot of us are indeed very thankful for.

Because of the very nature of their profession and training, the difficulty for them is when they can/should make that take a back seat to another/a more fundamental issue.

Is it right or moral to treat someone who is well known to be harming others? Is the doctor not an accomplice when his treatment directly enables that someone to continue to do harm to others?

The right of a doctor NOT to treat such a person is a moral one. By &#039;enabling&#039; the person, he (the doctor)is morally responsible for what that person can/will do to others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From my observation, it takes a certain makeup to be a doctor. Doctors are by and large, apolitical, highly skilled &#8216;technicians&#8217;- for which a lot of us are indeed very thankful for.</p>
<p>Because of the very nature of their profession and training, the difficulty for them is when they can/should make that take a back seat to another/a more fundamental issue.</p>
<p>Is it right or moral to treat someone who is well known to be harming others? Is the doctor not an accomplice when his treatment directly enables that someone to continue to do harm to others?</p>
<p>The right of a doctor NOT to treat such a person is a moral one. By &#8216;enabling&#8217; the person, he (the doctor)is morally responsible for what that person can/will do to others.</p>
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		<title>By: JFK</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/01/politics-and-the-place-of-doctors-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-4088</link>
		<dc:creator>JFK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jan 2008 23:55:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/politics-and-the-place-of-doctors-part-1/#comment-4088</guid>
		<description>If you were sick and needed urgent medical help , I dont think it is right to deny anyone.

However if we weigh the outcome of having the ability to AFFORD urgent medical attention, then this is a red flag.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you were sick and needed urgent medical help , I dont think it is right to deny anyone.</p>
<p>However if we weigh the outcome of having the ability to AFFORD urgent medical attention, then this is a red flag.</p>
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		<title>By: pissed</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/01/politics-and-the-place-of-doctors-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-4092</link>
		<dc:creator>pissed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jan 2008 13:14:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/politics-and-the-place-of-doctors-part-1/#comment-4092</guid>
		<description>PM Lee speech today is awesoms. What pisses me off is that the class C wards will have means testing in 2008, to save the government money and ensure help goes to the most needy people. Meanwhile, the ministers who are coming up with this scheme, with their million dollar pay, will continue to enjoy pensions and free medical benefits. I am not sure why these privileges are not taken away from the ministers, but the middle class continue to be squeezed....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PM Lee speech today is awesoms. What pisses me off is that the class C wards will have means testing in 2008, to save the government money and ensure help goes to the most needy people. Meanwhile, the ministers who are coming up with this scheme, with their million dollar pay, will continue to enjoy pensions and free medical benefits. I am not sure why these privileges are not taken away from the ministers, but the middle class continue to be squeezed&#8230;.</p>
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