not exploiting Sing Power because its charges are among the highest in the world.

Help can be in many forms, not always in terms of money. “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you feed him for a lifetime.” A lesson learnt from Andrew’s story is that, the root of the problem was not resolved, causing them a long and painful period to repay the “bad debt”.

I think the focus is to have stable household income. A social worker visiting the family could help to understand the situation, and counseling the need. This will help to ease the pain for the family, at the same time, encouraging the father to get on his feet and back to work (as full-time). Our society is weak in this area. Counseling were deem by many as useless, because not many of our counselors are trained to handle such situations. Life is full of ups and downs. Let’s face it that we need that little encouragement to pull us back on track.

sunflower

Before you jump in & make comments about Andrew & HIS situation, think about something very carefully.

We all don’t know know the true circumstance which led to his situation… esp the situation of the father. Do we as readers know about the other side of the story? If not, WHO ARE WE to condemn Andrew for taking a ‘luxurious’ flat to start with? Did anyone asked WHEN was the flat bought??? If it is bought before the property market downturn, then it is understandable that the family also wanted, at that time, a piece of property which they could count as their own. I think the family is normal & just like any other (Singaporean) family, they would like to make their mark also in societies like Singapore.

Do we know for sure that it is true that he & his father have not tried to pay for all the debts???? WHO among you all WANTS to be, in the first place, in debts? To give the benefit of the doubt, i am sure that they have tried to settle it as best as they can… Who ‘enjoys’ having the utility to be always cut off?? Who enjoys even more the humility of going down to officials in SP & HDB ‘begging’ them with ‘pennies’ to restore the electicity with (perhaps) your neighbours also laughing behind your backs? Not me :-(

In my opinion, i think the family is trying to make it as best as they can. By renting out rooms alone (see Comment from Leong Sze Hian above) shows a sign that the family is at least trying to survive. in my understanding by just reading this article, the father has tried to take all kinds of 2nd job on top of his main job as a real estate agent to make ends meet.

So before we begin to judge someone else, i think we should also try to understand what is going on behind. Maybe we would then all be more sympathetic to people like Andrew…. like also perhaps many more Singaporeans who are presently in his shoes too.

I really understand how you feel, i oso undergo abit same as you. As i believe and its true, most singaporean (in fact i shld say close to 95% singaporean) are all kia si and heartless type. Now i oso trying to seek MP help to try getting approval from HDB to sell my house. Currently oso own S&C, HDB and banks $$$….Just bought my flat 2yrs + ago. Can’t sell it, cos getting the HDB Grant. Have to wait 5 yrs den can sell off. Hope we can all pull through…..Just ignore those ppls who think SERVE THEM RIGHT FOR BUYING A BIG FLAT…Screw them!!!! Fyi, my previous pay was around 5k, but due to retrenchment, now were unable to service all my loans.

Can you email me at leonggsh@pacific.net.sg to give me your telephone contact, as I would like to speak to you

Cheers

Leong Sze Hian

First, I must commend you for your eloquence. I am sure that you will have no trouble finding a job in Singapore.

Next, perhaps I can clarify my position on this matter. I never sought to criticize you. While I’ve made it clear that I’m not exactly sympathetic, I don’t seek to criticize or condemn. It’s clear to me that you and your family are having a hard enough time already.

That said, I had sought to highlight above why the writer’s logic is flawed — and if you want to understand why you are getting the backlash, it’s because this piece is poorly written. Instead of simply highlighting your situation, this piece has sought to insinuate that it is a failure of the system. Notwithstanding the new facts you have presented, it should be quite clear to the majority of readers here that your case does not provide support for this claim (which seems to be the central theme for this article).

The objective is one of awareness, to allow you to objectively view what’s happening authentically by actual Singaporeans, in the hope that an even better system can be implemented, to make Singapore a better place.

Hate to break this to you, but there are many who are in worse straits, and many of them are likely not quite as eloquent as you and therefore probably less able to get out of a similar (or worse) mess. Given the facts of the story, your situation is only to be expected. How can anyone expect otherwise?

The original title was suppose to be “Homeless Soon??? Thanks to HDB…” and somehow the article has come to focus on “compassion”.

That is a lousy title. Reason: if your family did become homeless, it’s not HDB’s fault. Your dad messed up as you admitted above, so please take responsibility for your family’s mess. Why anyone would what to put up such a title is beyond me, if not asking for compassion.

“What kind of system do ALL of us live under and what is its effects on ALL of us?”

Tell us: what is wrong with the system as you mentioned? If you family messes up, you expect the State to come to your rescue? Is the article incorrect in highlighting that SP has been dealing with your family’s payments in arrears since 1999?

“Is this system setup to proportionately aid the people more, or aid the authorities more? Creating Profiteering from necessities or Provision of affordable basic necessities?”

You seem to be thinking that your family deserves more aid than the rest? Turns out the majority of readers do not seem to agree with you.

“If a family who was once doing ok, as a result of a ‘slip up that could happen even to the best of us’, can get affected by changes in housing policy that causes a major downward spiral financially, what more can happen to those who are less well-off?”

Well, shit happens. You expect the State to provide guarantees to families who were once doing ok that they should ALWAYS do okay even if they mess up? That’s not how the real world works.

“Are there more of such stories around? Especially those living in 3 room or smaller flats that face similar predicaments because of a poorly developed system?”

Plenty more and more serious, which is why your story is less than interesting and comes across more whiny than anything.

“If you are also living in such a system, could you be next to face a similar predicament when you “mess up”? If so, what are the ‘red flags’? What are the possible rectifications before the systems affect more of us? How do we address them? Who should be responsible in correcting the system? What should be done?”

If the goal of this article is to “warn” people, it needs a complete rewrite and a title mor akin to “Look before you leap. Don’t commit financially before doing your sums….”. You want to warn people then please don’t try to push blame. Given the facts, it actually puts you in a bad light, hence my suggestion to the author for a change of title earlier for the said article.

Of course, my family and I became the subject of scrutiny. Many harsh /hurtful words of judgment came as a result but I guess that’s the price one pays for allowing their story to be aired to the public. All this however, is worth it if it creates a shift in awareness and creates a better system that serves the people better, including those that wrote those hurtful words.

A lot has to do with HOW it has been aired.

I’d consider ourselves as having dug out of “really serious s#^t” and can at least see a ray of light at the end of the tunnel. This I consider an achievement on my family’s part.

Congrats. Glad to hear that.

It is only now that property prices allow our sales transaction to fully cover what is owing to HDB.

Precisely. So what’s the big deal?

Hmm… I wonder why we still get hurtful words for taking responsibility to repay our debt to HDB?

Nobody assumed the you’re not paying up. It is unlikely you have such an option anyway. In case you’re still not getting it, you’re getting a earful for other things, not for not repaying your debt.

About the car, what you probably don’t know is that my dad drives an old “beat up” car that IS fully paid. It aids in his job and ultimately causes him to spend lesser than if he were to use ‘car share’ or use the taxi service for his job. Is it then a “wrong” thing to have a car when its expense is lower than the next best alternative?

It turns out that your family is not the only one around that own cars and many people understand perfectly well how much petrol is costing these days. How do you hope to convince people that it is cheaper to maintain a “beat up” car than take public transport? You know why you’re getting flak? It’s because your family doesn’t seem to understand how to be “poor”.

No. We didn’t ask for free electricity. We are willing to pay for our usage and have been paying for our usage and the arrears. The point of pointing SP out was to allow you to look into their system and you decide if this is a fair system set up to aid the people or the company

Please be reminded that SP has been dealing with your payments in arrears since 1999. I would have thought that they are already infinitely patient.

Ever try putting yourself in SP’s shoes? Perhaps suggest to us a reasonable way to handle people who don’t pay up other than the current “send a letter of demand first and then cut power if you dun pay up” policy? You want them to send a pretty debt collector to your doorstep?

If your claim is that SP didn’t give you sufficient warning/grace before cutting your power, then please provide the facts and make that claim … and if you’re right, people might agree with you…. and if you don’t pay up on time, you should of course expect to get slapped with late charges. If people don’t get slapped with late charges, WHY would anyone bother to pay up on time? Everyone will just pay up as and when they feel like it.

The truth about being possibly homeless is… We can’t get a house now because … yada yada:

Perhaps you can address the question of why you cannot rent first and save up enough until you can pay for cash top up for a resale flat?

And the consequence of messing up is a life of financial struggles and facing the music, both externally (with the authorities) and internally (family, relatives and of course, self pity, depression etc).

This unfortunately is how life is. I find it hard to believe that Singaporeans don’t know/understand this. I think you are not giving them enough credit.

Our pledge says:

Looks like we are a far cry away from our founding ideals huh but I hope I’ve set you thinking.

Perhaps I can highlight that this pledge in no way says that if you get into trouble because of your own fault, it is the responsibility of the State to bail you out so that you (and your family) do not suffer a drop in your standard of living.

Frankly, you do get some sympathies from me, not for your family’s plight (though you might have gotten some if the tone of the article was different….), but from some of the unduly harsh criticisms above. However, it also seems to me that you haven’t quite learnt the lesson you should have learnt and you’re still clinging steadfast to the belief that the Govt/HDB/SP are at fault? I hope that I’ve set you thinking.

Andrew Loh,

While I accept your disagreements on the issues raised in the article, I do not accept your last sentence about Selene.

It is totally uncalled for and regrettable that you would make such a statement.

At no point did the KTM make a statement about Selene. Merely highlighted above that Andrew (not you, one in the story) has Selene to thank for all the flak that he has been getting. It might be helpful to read comments more carefully before responding. :-)

No cash to buy resale flats? Perhaps try your luck at big sweep, toto. ha.

Perhaps can write in to ST forums to ask for waive off the loans ? ha.

Can’t wait in the queue? Go see your MP and bang table, demanding for your flats.

It’s always easy to blame the government, the god, the neighbours, HDB, SingPower, town council, weather, society.

Thanks for the kind words of encouragement and advices from those who sent them. I’m especially grateful that you’ve not judged but rather chose to look at the issue in a positive light, giving objective solutions, given that the article left many details opened to interpretation / misinterpretation.

For those who cast the “judgmental finger”, thanks too for you are entitled to your opinion and that is ok. It probably made you feel a little better about yourself, your beliefs and your values. Your comments reflect your personal evolution and I wish you all the best in your personal development.

Originally, I wanted to ignore the comments but I feel that the real message of the article has not been put across. I’m also observing that there have been various assumptions made and I also see that it has gotten out of hand, with many destructive statements being posted to various people, even the kind souls at TOC that have put themselves on the line to be of service to you but yet get scrutinized. As such, I feel it is appropriate to set the record straight and put across the message originally intended. The objective is one of awareness, to allow you to objectively view what’s happening authentically by actual Singaporeans, in the hope that an even better system can be implemented, to make Singapore a better place.

I didn’t get to see the draft before the article got posted. The original title was suppose to be “Homeless Soon??? Thanks to HDB…” and somehow the article has come to focus on “compassion”. However, the original interview was not so much about “compassion” but rather to ask these simple questions:

• “What kind of system do ALL of us live under and what is its effects on ALL of us?”

• “Is this system setup to proportionately aid the people more, or aid the authorities more? Creating Profiteering from necessities or Provision of affordable basic necessities?”

• “If a family who was once doing ok, as a result of a ‘slip up that could happen even to the best of us’, can get affected by changes in housing policy that causes a major downward spiral financially, what more can happen to those who are less well-off?”

• “Are there more of such stories around? Especially those living in 3 room or smaller flats that face similar predicaments because of a poorly developed system?”

• “If you are also living in such a system, could you be next to face a similar predicament when you “mess up”? If so, what are the ‘red flags’? What are the possible rectifications before the systems affect more of us? How do we address them? Who should be responsible in correcting the system? What should be done?”

I only ask that the truth be told. Of course, my family and I became the subject of scrutiny. Many harsh /hurtful words of judgment came as a result but I guess that’s the price one pays for allowing their story to be aired to the public. All this however, is worth it if it creates a shift in awareness and creates a better system that serves the people better, including those that wrote those hurtful words.

As for the assumptions made about my family and me, here’s some clarity.

• Yes my dad did put us in this situation in the first place. Despite going through difficult years, cash flow for day-to-day living is fine now for my family. Not the best but we’re surviving. The worst of the years has passed. Having came from those many years of pain to this stage, I’d consider ourselves as having dug out of “really serious s#^t” and can at least see a ray of light at the end of the tunnel. This I consider an achievement on my family’s part.

• Through the years, my mum, sis and I have all been working and supporting the family and its expense (Who do you think supported the house while my dad was jobless for 10 years). What you saw in the HDB appeal letter about me being jobless was a period of 3 months that I myself loss my job and the cash flow that was usually used to aid my family, was reduced and can’t meet the usual monthly payment requirements. I still work and support my family.

• My sister’s education is not funded by my family. She got married to a foreigner and is studying overseas, with her tuition fees fully funded by her husband, who believes that an education is still very important in order to earn a better livelihood. She’s got her own family to take care of and they are just making ends meet. In fact, while I was younger and was still schooling and only worked part-time to support my own pocket money, she was the one who paid for most of the expenses.

• No. We couldn’t sell the house earlier because the property market wasn’t favourable. Our valuation could not even cover what was left owing to HDB. We would have been in further debt if we had sold the house earlier. Much worse, not even have a roof to live under. It is only now that property prices allow our sales transaction to fully cover what is owing to HDB. Hmm… I wonder why we still get hurtful words for taking responsibility to repay our debt to HDB?

• Yes. We did rent a room out that helped us out financially but despite the rent income, we had to collectively contribute more to the installment plans that we agreed to pay to SP, Town Council and other creditors.

• About the car, what you probably don’t know is that my dad drives an old “beat up” car that IS fully paid. It aids in his job and ultimately causes him to spend lesser than if he were to use ‘car share’ or use the taxi service for his job. Is it then a “wrong” thing to have a car when its expense is lower than the next best alternative?

• No. We didn’t ask for free electricity. We are willing to pay for our usage and have been paying for our usage and the arrears. The point of pointing SP out was to allow you to look into their system and you decide if this is a fair system set up to aid the people or the company:

- For those who are in arrears, a letter of demand is sent for you to pay by a certain date.

- Since you are already in arrears, your power supply will be cut off if you miss that date.

- Even if you pay up, as a result of your power supply being cut off, you’ll STILL have to pay for interest, reconnection fees and the reminder fee, every single time this happens.

- If you set up an installment plan and miss payments for matter of days, a letter will be sent to you to demand that you pay up in full or you’ll be faced with a disconnection.

- Should there be any legal letters that come your way (who knows? Maybe the computer system automatically knows when to do this), you’ll STILL have to pay for the legal fees, on top of regular usage, reconnection fees, interest and reminder fees. (Of course, you may be black-listed too)

- As mentioned in the article, the Town Council has the same system too.

The truth about being possibly homeless is… We can’t get a house now because:

o We don’t have the cash to pay for the cash top up for a resale flat.

o The proceeds from the current sale will be used to pay up all the outstanding loan with HDB.

o I don’t have a good queue number through the balloting exercise. Those who really need a house urgently needs to go through that “dance” routine called the balloting system and compete with many other Singaporeans to get a house. By the time you get to be on the top of the list, you’d already have paid several application fees and waited for an uncertain period of time. The question here is “By when will you climb up the queue ladder and get priority?”

BTW, my parents will be staying with me in the house that I purchase and I know that we’ll be thankful to have a flat.

I must say too that there are helpful humans within the system, who try to help but ultimately, they are also slaves to the system and its policies and have to abide by the rules set up by their employer (Reality of being employed). However, I’m still grateful for the help they rendered.

Hey, the truth is, my dad messed up and I know that along the way, we (the family) contributed to the mess too! And the consequence of messing up is a life of financial struggles and facing the music, both externally (with the authorities) and internally (family, relatives and of course, self pity, depression etc). We are taking responsibility and I’m glad to say that we are mostly out of our predicament. For those who still choose to criticize, may you who have never made a bad decision cast the first criticism.

Yup. I know that when this comes out, there’s going to be some of you who will still criticize but there would also be those who will be encouraging. This is life and it is normal human behaviour. Sometimes people forget that when they point a finger outwards, 3 more point back at themselves. However, I appreciate you voicing out anyway.

Our pledge says:

“We. The citizens of Singapore,
Pledge ourselves as One United People,
Regardless of Race, Language or Religion,
To Build a Democratic Society,
Based on Justice and Equality,
So as to achieve Happiness, Prosperity and Progress for out nation.”

Looks like we are a far cry away from our founding ideals huh but I hope I’ve set you thinking.

Best Regards,
Andrew

Its time people understand what it takes to survive in an economy like today and i guess they should have sold their house long back and moved to a smaller house instead. Singapore govt. and other involved parties are doing a lot to give Singaporeans and others who stay here a comfortable stay.

I really feel Singaporeans should go outside Singapore to other countries and see “how difficult life is”; i frankly feel their expectations from govt. are v v high and sometimes ridiculous.

In other countries, u die outside a hospital if you don’t have money to get the fellow in for treatment, Singapore is a much much better country when it comes to issues like these, so people should become more responsible and stop whining and complaining. Also the taxpayers and others who slog hard, have to then take care of people like these who spend more than they can afford which doesn’t make sense.

So what if they lose money by selling the house, it was a bad decision they took in life and life has to move on…

Kamlesh

Its about people having a hard time finding an hdb house today, even we singaporeans cannot afford the rental or the price lah, HDB price keeps on going up, but the income of the people is not considered. Like Mr. Wong kan said, if this keeps going on, singaporeans will be attracted by other countries including foreign talents and then they will become competitors against singapore. It is happening now already, many singaporeans are in dubai, australia, China, Malaysia, Taiwan.

If anyone showed sympathy to you, they are truly generous.

All those who support Andrew, do something for him than wasting your time here mulling over this.

As for Andrew’s dad, I just cant understand him as a real estate agent who doesnt know when to sell his flat and find a reasonably priced rental unit.I have never come across any agent as such.

While reading the article, I seriously thought our govt agencies could be that bad to the xtent of sending a family of 4 to streets. Well…they did the right job in cutting the power and all the things they have done to get the money from them.

Andrew and his supporters, there are many ways to skin a cat. Please Dont use this forum for people like andrew’s family. They dont deserve anything. They will have to sort out the things they got into bcos of their mismanagement.

my 2 cents worth…