88 Responses to “Separating fact from fiction – Addressing the allegations against theonlinecitizen”

1. 

   Andrew Loh 14 February 2008

   Dear Chronicler,

   Thanks for the support. We at TOC appreciate it.

   There have been many many untrue, false and malicious lies directed at us – the most blatant of which is the lie that TOC has threatened Jasper and the Wayang Party blog people with legal action, which the owner or owners of that blog knows is totally and competely not true.

   Why someone would make such an untruthful claim, only he knows.

   Personally, I trust that in the long run, what TOC is will stand the test of time – that is if we here accept our failings and learn from them. And to be sure, TOC does not claim infallibility.

   Regards,
   Andrew Loh
2. 

   CelluloidReality 14 February 2008

   I leave you chaps with one maxim here.

   “Wah lao, u see them stand here so long, providing something good, then someone you donch know come in and tell u that those ppl are out to kill you and that’s all he keeps saying and slowly u see them try to take over the spot. You tell me you dont know who is the pai kia meh? “
3. 

   theonlinecitizen 14 February 2008

   Dear Ordinary Citizen,

   You are mistaken. As you can see from the Wayang Party blog site itself, the owners or editors said:

   “TOC has threatened to take legal action against Jasper and us for publishing these comments and have demanded an apology and retraction of statements made.”

   When someone puts out a blatant lie such as this, I do not think any reasonable person would expect us to apologise. On the contrary, we’re waiting for them to prove what they claimed – that we “threatened” them with “legal action” and “demanded an apology” and “retraction of statements made”.

   There have been no show of proof of such a claim – perhaps it is because the claim is an untruthful one which the writer of that post knows fully but chose to propagate anyway, for whatever agenda he or they have?

   As for Jasper, his words in the context of his entire posting gives one a certain understanding – which, incidentally, the Wayang Party blog people also understood in the same way – namely, that Remy was paid by a PAP MP to write for TOC.

   (Please read through the entire blog post by Wayang Party blog).

   Thus, I do not know the basis of your saying that an apology should be offered by us. I would think that lying that TOC threatened legal action when he/they know is untrue would instead be more deserving of an apology offered, by them.

   Regards,
   Andrew Loh
4. 

   theonlinecitizen 14 February 2008

   Dear Robert Teh,

   I have replied to the email you sent.

   Regards,
   Andrew Loh
5. 

   I see, so I am 14 February 2008

   People! Simple lar. Acid test:

   How many articles on TOC are pro-PAP? = None, IMHO.

   How many articles on Wayang Party Club of Singapore are anti-TOC /anti-WP? = Almost all their articles!

   So: Who is the real PAP counter-insurgency?

   So simple also dunno??? tsk tsk.. no wonder singapore education system so screwed up.
6. 

   CelluloidReality 14 February 2008

   Haha, it’s so elementary. So why do people not see it?

   Helmet too tight ah?
7. 

   freedom lovin Singaporean 14 February 2008

   its clear the allegations are baseless

   its clear these endless rounds of mud slinging against TOC aint making TOC look any guilty

   its clear the anti-TOC opponents are bent on creating confusion and chaos

   so let this string of replies end here…

   should anti-TOC opponents spill any more, JUST IGNORE THEM…..
8. 

   A tired man 15 February 2008

   I have been spending my time searching for alternative views to the Main Stream for the past two years. My perception is that, since I am long aware that (from TOC editor’s summary page) there seems to be some writers that are working for the political parties of Singapore; I am prepared to choose the materials suit me well. I believe that the other readers do that too. Of course, if the news from the Sg blogosphere does not provide the alternative views but criticisms or pro-govt news or viewa, these are obviously shooing me off.

   I feel that the SG blogosphere should be a place that can accommodate many different views and later, a tool that brings up peoples’ concerns to the top. I feel that, a good blogger is someone like Mr Leong Sze Hian. I believe that he hardly sides anyone. He analyses the issues carefully and expresses his views and his criticisms often accompanied with some constructive solutions. I think, he is merely writing for the people. Well, as long as, there are more than one opinions in the Sg blogosphere, I feel that, I and perhaps most readers will continue to read and express their views.

   I believe what is seriously lacking in the political system is the people who really care for the people. True peoples’ hero is the leader who serves with their hearts and soul and sufficiently paid. I don’t believe that this product named, MONEY, will attract good leaders to work for the good of the people. Hopefully, one day, there will be someone like Mr Leong Sze Hian, working for the people in the government. Till then, the best alternative to represent the peoples’ voice is the Sg blogosphere. Let’s not abuse it in a way or another.
9. 

   Lazarus 15 February 2008

   “Think about it! But how does one go about selling the whole idea of registration to a community that is diametrically against? Simple, create the problem and that leads to demand for the cure, spread the virus and the antidote is brought into sharp focus. That my friends is the agenda of Jasper and the rest of those motherfuckers (I see right through them like glass) and how are they doing it? You can see for yourself – blogosphere is now in a shambles, brother has turned against brother, our collective fears have been heightened and even sharpened by these recent developments.”

   Didn’t connect the dots then, now it makes sense. The only problem is it makes too much sense.
10. 

    Agnes 15 February 2008

    I really like reading TOC. I think you all do a really nice job, and are providing a very nice resource here for Singaporeans. I must admit that I felt a bit disappointed thought, to learn that someone there is being paid by a PAP MP. Writing and gathering information for an MP, if done well, will help the MP get re-elected in however small way.

    So my feeling of disappointment has nothing to do with TOC. It’s just that I don’t really care for the PAP, and am sad to learn that someone whose articles here I really like is, in some however small sense, helping them stay in power. It is slightly irrational, because I strongly believe that only content matters. No amount of money could make me work for the PAP.

    Perhaps, for many Singaporeans, because of our extreme distaste for the PAP, we’ll not feel happy about anyone connected to them.

    But your openness and care is very much appreciated, and I think TOC will continue to be a very nice resource. Thank you so much for all the interesting essays so far.
11. 

    sarek_home 15 February 2008

    The TOC Fiasco – Truth is the First Casualty of War
    Posted on February 15, 2008 by thesunshineson

    Conspiracy theories will always run its course in the blogosphere. Years ago, tomorrow.sg also had its fair share of the spotlight as an insidious government trojan. Some time from now, another blog will get the dubious honour, ushering it into this hall of honour. That’s the way it is.

    http://james.seng.sg/2005/05/09/why-i-do-tomorrow/
12. 

    saintmoron 15 February 2008

    Tristy;
    thank You for highlighting said article to me, read it before You alerted me. It is however no consolation as it worsens the fracas. I like to say it does alleviate my diasappointment to know that the search for truth and justice are ongoing and some of the very best minds are putting in their efforts.

    This whole issue of ‘Trojan Horse’ and mole is nothing new and it will recur repeatly, so it is only to be expected from time to time. What I personally feel is that vehement reactions to it give the perpetrator(s) more exposures which enhance their visibilities and or even attractions. It would be wise to just leave them aside and take no notice of them and to do sincerely what one has been doing before. Lamentably, it now becomes complex and irritating, yet I believe justice will prevail.
13. 

    topghost 15 February 2008

    Dear Darkness,

    Thank you for your most interesting take on the matter. I wish to take clarify a few points, you mentioned;

    “Our position with TOC is the same with any producer in blogosphere; we respect them for what they are; does it matter to us whether they may be allied to PAP or the army of the 10 monkeys, we couldn’t give a flying fuck – we have an open policy.”

    I don’t believe you truly appreciate the issues at hand. The issue IMO is whether there is a conflict of interest which TOC did not adequately address by allowing with full knowledge aforethought or by default to allow Remy to continue writing. We can say many things about the slant of Remy’s articles, they are anti-establishment etc and they may not even be supportive of the MIV or MSM view, but if I may use your analogy where you mentioned counter insurgency is a “snakey” game, then deliberately coming across as anti-establishment is also an effective strategy to infiltrate blogosphere. Surely even you cannot deny that.

    One can certainly lamblast Jasper’s allegations no end, but even you cannot deny there is merit to his observations as it points to clear evidence of malingering and contrary to your assertion it is IMO grounds to continue to be suspicious of TOC. I for one cannot understand how such an intelligent man would even suggest for one moment, there should be an open policy in the net to even allow political parties to dominate it in the way that you have suggested – have you ever considered, we may not even be in a position to compete against anything as organized as the government or a party political system – that I believe is why Jasper’s allegations has stirred up such a hornets nest, as it provokes exactly these very sentiments which you do not seem to even recognize. Instead of advocating a “open policy” you would go further to suggest that blogosphere should be declared a neutral non-political zone and that I believe would be a far more sensible proposition. That of course also means Jaspers allegations concerning TOC is worthy and should not be dismissed as simply a vindictive attack without merit.

    I hope that you will answer my question instead of skirting it as usual :). Many thanks.
14. 

    JDread 15 February 2008

    Dear topghost, let’s put Choo aside at the moment. When Ephriam Loy was recruited by TOC this was openly declared (his PAP membership etc.) and all the ruckus was raised and subsided. You can’t accuse TOC of not being transparent. Now on Choo. He’s not a PAP member and there’s nothing to declare. His work sounds more like pro-people than a pro-MP. Does it mean when a PAP MP is elected nobody should help him? Who suffers? People or just PAP?
15. 

    JDread 15 February 2008

    One more thing: from day one since I became an avid reader I saw the notice which says TOC is non partisan. You got problem with that, don’t visit this blog. Don’t come here to KPKB because TOC is not a party and don’t need to win your votes. Before you lambaste TOC for being immune to criticism and its critics denied freedom of speech. Let me say that they are ordinary S’poreans like you, so if you can demand answers, so can I of you.
16. 

    saintmoron 16 February 2008

    I like to address this post to Robert Teh, whom I found have worked tirelessly for the wellbeings of the State and the people, at least that’s what I could opine at this moment.

    Before using saintmoron, I was posting as scb; as I concurred almost fully with most of his posts, we saw very much eyes to eyes and complimented each other. However, for some times a few of the regular TOC Posters were not posting at TOC. From some of their postings, I could sensed that some were disappointed with edits and reminders by TOC.

    Though I had not been censored in my postings, I was on a couple of occassions quite disappointed that TOC did not correct one or two glaring mistakes of facts that I made. On second thought, I felt it was not their duties; I was hoping that TOC would be helpful but, it was not. I apologised and did the corrections on its’ site myself. I did not stopped reading and posting here despite the afore-mentioned, for I felt and still feel that it is worthy for most, if not all, their contents. Hopefully Robert Teh may share my feeling.

    As for the Internet, I am very inclined to feel that it should be for everyone no matter their affiliations. We as readers and active posters have much to learn and gain from the different perspectives. I read and post at the Post 65 MPs Blogs too despite the fact that I have hardly, maybe never supported PAP at all. I am very much put off by their propagandas since I was a teen. However, there were times when I appreciated certain efforts that the Members and their supporters did. Allow me just to say that their cohesiveness thus far is something which the Oppositions and for that matter, even the citizenry are not able to emulate.

    Some of us strongly feel that everyone has rights to say their pieces and though we wish that everybody upholds integrity and propriety when speaking up, that nevertheless is too idealistic; what with Trojan Horses and moles lurking around. As I had said before, justice altimately will prevail and those playing pranks are likely to be exposed as time goes by. So here again I say let’s do our parts as righteously as we ought to do.
17. 

    Bhagyawati 16 February 2008

    The PAP’s Internet Counter-Insurgents Squad led by Ng Eng Yen and Baey Yam Keng has fast become a pest, not just a nuisance to the cyber community. Judging from the strong reactions given to the recent events involving theonlinecitizen.com (TOC), the whole effort of the PAP’s Counter-Insurgents Squad has back-fired on them very badly.

    The Wayang King, so self-named as wayangkingsg at the Sammyboy.com’s Alfresco Coffee Shop (SBF), is at the centre of storm involving TOC. For those who have dealt with him before, he comes across as a member of the PAP’s Counter-Insurgents Squad, operating out of the National Health Group.

    He has assumed a variety of online anonymous identities at SBF, such as thinknothing, thinkpeople, Mihailov75, mehailov75, samster005, samstor005, razari, kevansg, Firdaus77, jacy_, jacys_, PM0nkeyWP, aIz2by, 0nePerson, Yishun81, exist17, PM0NKEY10, Delphilian, delphiloon, thinkdelphi, Ahkong_, andrewshit, zhengxiTOC, norfirdaus, Sarrkozy, Mohd_Hakim, titusbamble, geraldTOC, sarak_home, NoorFirdaus, Ahmed_Yusof, mohdimran, samster55, spartacus436, porkchop59, bullshitGMS, MSVista, nvista, Mohdfarhan, daqigui, mohdjunid, mohdjames, MemberName05, porkchop611, aboutdelphi, delphifcuk, AndrewofWP, Andrew69sg, sockmonkeysg, wayanguru, checkentry, wayangclub, GH2788why, monkeylohhp, deankohh, createnew, callcab111, Goldenparrot, createpoll, madcow2788, COE75, PussyJUDGE, PDonkey10, namqiong5984, remychooo, AndrewLoh985, wayangkingsg, wayangclubsg, MaryKwan, etc., most of them have been banned.

    For the regular forummers of SBF, they would remember that this Wayang King has been notorious in impersonating other opposition parties’ figures, such as Perry Tong, Low Thia Khiang, and Sebastian Teo at SBF, causing a stir in the local newspapers in Singapore. When he was caught red-handed for impersonating Perry Tong, he cunningly assumed another identity in the name of Bernard Soh (using a login name hongrui1982) to post a letter of apology.

    With a history like this, it is not difficult to digest the recent events and who is behind them.

    From all the evidences available, it is without a shadow of doubt that this Wayang King signed off as Jasper to post the first message on 05/02/2008 at singabloodypore (singabloodypore.rsfblog.org):

    He was caught subsequently by soci to impersonate Andrew Loh to post a message on 06/02/2008 challenging Jasper at singabloodypore.rsfblog.org:

    So the netizens have been taken a free ride by the Wayang King without knowing that they have been watching a wayang show conducted by wayangparty (wayangparty.wordpress.com).

    With this in mind, there is a possibility that the second Jasper is also a clone of wayangparty used to further discredit TOC by posting a message on 07/02/2008 at singabloodypore.

    It becomes clear that why an anonymous Jasper would bother to set up a blog (jasperwee.wordpress.com) for the sole purpose of attacking TOC if he is not a member of the PAP’s Internet Counter-Insurgents Squad.

    Once we know that Jasper and wayangparty are the same person belonging to the PAP’s Internet Counter-Insurgents Squad, his malicious act of disinformation and attacks on TOC and Workers’ Party can be easily seen!

    What the Wayang King did not expect is that his whole self-conducted wayang show has back-fired on the PAP’s Internet Counter-Insurgents Squad very badly and discredited himself completely!
18. 

    Tua Pek Kong 16 February 2008

    We need to bear in mind one thing, counter insurgency has been called a “snakey” game, that is to say it is never straight forward. If what darkness says is true, then this is only the first parter, what we did not mention of course is what will follow directly after this attack which is designed to spread discord and cause confusion.

    Some useless internet expert is probably going to storm into blogosphere ridding a white horse shouting out registration, registration and registration.

    As it is I am glad their designs have been thawrted once again, but one thing is clear, if it happens, all of us will probably say, “Ahhhhhhhhh standard lah.”

    I am just waiting for that to happen now. As you can all see since their plans have been exposed for all to see by the bp people, the guns in wayangparty club have strangely fallen silent, you want to know why? These truths have homed in like tomahawk guided missiles and gone ka-booooom!

    Their plans have been scuttled. I see it very clearly now, it is very clear.
19. 

    TACL 16 February 2008

    Let’s not be stupid to use the term “conflict of interest”. The most important thing about “conflict of interest” and accountability arises only when large sums of money is involved. For this case, you are talking about only $500 and that is not to write for TOC. Mdm Ho will be silly to pay Choo to write for TOC when she could have paid him to write for P65.
20. 

    shoestring 16 February 2008

    Ok already lah. Enough distraction. Can we focus on the CPF Life wayang now?

    After skimming through it, the only difference to me is that they have changed the word “compulsory” to “automatic” which still means the same to me as long as there is no avenue for opting out. Or is there?

    No matter how much they change the details, it’s the same if there is no opting out.

    Can opt in (for some), no opting out = compulsory.

    Am I right?
21. 

    sarek_home 17 February 2008

    Counter insurgent theory full of holes.

    The NewSintercom (http://www.newsintercom.org/index.php?itemid=571) said:

    “Whatever we might think about the PAP, they are politically cunning at least. …….. The PAP in its Internet offensive have probably dropped its P65 blog as its Internet flagship and moved to something else that the public wants to read – a moderate blog.”

    The BIG HOLE Number 1:

    Why is the politically cunning PAP, as NewSintercom said, would act in such foolish manner like:

    Having Ephraim Loy. a Young PAP, as provisional co-editor of TOC.
    Having Choo Zheng Xi paid to assists a PAP MP to gathering material for Parliamentary speeches and helps to write for the constituency newsletter,

    Does it make sense?

    The BIG HOLE Number 2:

    Jaspers said:

    “this toc chief is paid by a pap mp out in the west of singapore to write. PAID BY PAP TO WRITE. and paid quite well so its said”

    First, Jaspers mixed the fact that Remy is paid for gathering material for Parliamentary speeches and helps to write for the constituency newsletter, not his work with TOC.
    Second, don’t you think the politically cunning PAP will have better secretive ways to pay anyone to do their dirty work?

    These two big HOLES are more than enough to sink this whole conspiracy theory.

    It is said that some people are blinded from these big holes in plain sight because of their deep seated anger with PAP. They failed to think rationally to see these holes and misguided by people with flawed reasoning to spin an unjust attack against a group of caring, concerning young people who serve TOC and the general public with their objective and informative articles.
22. 

    Doug 18 February 2008

    I am a foreigner currently residing in Singapore and just trying to get a feel for the culture so you may or may not be interested in my opinions on this matter. I will share them with you regardless:

    1. ‘Life is waaaaaay too short’ to actually engage in spurious and baseless mud-slinging matches with anonymous individuals. TIP: Ignore and move on.

    2. If one does deign to dignify such allegations with a response, be careful of the ‘the lady doth protest too much’ response. It is the natural reaction of an observer.

    3. ‘Don’t fail to see the forest for the trees’. Nobody seemed to have noticed that somebody suggested that this is why S’pore is not yet ready for full democracy. Don’t get so caught up in meaningless debate about petty name-calling that you miss the REALLY important things.

    4. A newspaper (electronic or otherwise) of standing should ALWAYS support freedom of speech, not just when the speech is measured and seemingly just: ‘I might not agree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it’ is a always good starting point…

    5. …but you don’t have to publish it! Dealing with rantings of the insane and the juvenile is a small price to pay for the immeasurable wealth of wisdom gained from a frank and open discussion about things which matter to people. Unfortunately, newspapers bear a dispraportionate level of responsibility in this regard.

    6. Truth is a fiction designed to confuse you. The human condition is trying to undestand the universe, logic is a tool to that end. The universe does not have to be reasonable, to insist on absolute truth of any statement does not advance an argument and indeed suggests a poor grasp of the very principles of insightful reasoning. A satisfactory level of mutual understanding should be the goal.

    As I say: take it, leave it, make paper aeroplanes with it…

    Disclaimer – I don’t really care who is right or wrong in this instance.
23. 

    CelluloidReality 18 February 2008

    Doug, good call.

    It’s a simple case of an issue blown out of proportion.
24. 

    snakecharmer 19 February 2008

    Doug

    You have your reality. We have ours. All I know is this you cannot stop people from forming their opinions positively or negatively abt TOC. Everyone has a right to form their opinion and if they choose to view it as small, medium or big that is their choice, you say ignore them, that doesnt mean you are more justified, it simply means you choose to ignore them and that adds and subtracts nothing, it just means you choose to ignore them. That is all. In life if only all solutions are so simple that they can simply be ignored only to resolve themselves magically. If only
25. 

    JDread 19 February 2008

    snakecharmer, everyone has the right to form an opinion but it is how you express it that shows your agenda. Expressing an opinion is one thing and wanting to influence others with that opinion is another thing. This case shows the person wants to spread ill will against TOC by repeating the same thing in different blogs using different nicks, it’s not just simple expressing views.
26. 

    DeepNeck 19 February 2008

    JDread,

    The Wayang King, so self-named as wayangkingsg at the Sammyboy.com’s Alfresco Coffee Shop (SBF), is at the centre of storm involving TOC. For those who have dealt with him before, he comes across as a member of the PAP’s Counter-Insurgents Squad, operating out of the National Health Group.

    HIS SOLE PURPOSE IS TO ATTACK AND DISCREDIT THE WORKERS’ PARTY AND TOC. He has set up a blog specifically to do this.

    He has assumed a variety of online anonymous identities at SBF, such as :

    thinknothing, thinkpeople, Mihailov75, mehailov75, samster005, samstor005, razari, kevansg, Firdaus77, jacy_, jacys_, PM0nkeyWP, aIz2by, 0nePerson, Yishun81, exist17, PM0NKEY10, Delphilian, delphiloon, thinkdelphi, Ahkong_, andrewshit, zhengxiTOC, norfirdaus, Sarrkozy, Mohd_Hakim, titusbamble, geraldTOC, sarak_home, NoorFirdaus, Ahmed_Yusof, mohdimran, samster55, spartacus436, porkchop59, bullshitGMS, MSVista, nvista, Mohdfarhan, daqigui, mohdjunid, mohdjames, MemberName05, porkchop611, aboutdelphi, delphifcuk, AndrewofWP, Andrew69sg, sockmonkeysg, wayanguru, checkentry, wayangclub, GH2788why, monkeylohhp, deankohh, createnew, callcab111, Goldenparrot, createpoll, madcow2788, COE75, PussyJUDGE, PDonkey10, namqiong5984, remychooo, AndrewLoh985, wayangkingsg, wayangclubsg, MaryKwan, etc., most of them have been banned.

    For the regular forummers of SBF, they would remember that this Wayang King has been notorious in impersonating other opposition parties’ figures, such as Perry Tong, Low Thia Khiang, and Sebastian Teo at SBF, causing a stir in the local newspapers in Singapore.

    When he was caught red-handed for impersonating Perry Tong, he cunningly assumed another identity in the name of Bernard Soh (using a login name hongrui1982) to post a letter of apology.

    With a history like this, it is not difficult to digest the recent events and who is behind them.

    So the netizens have been taken a free ride by the Wayang King without knowing that they have been watching a wayang show conducted by wayangparty (wayangparty.wordpress.com).

    It becomes clear that why an anonymous Jasper would bother to set up a blog (jasperwee.wordpress.com) for the sole purpose of attacking TOC if he is not a member of the PAP’s Internet Counter-Insurgents Squad.

    Once we know that Jasper and wayangparty are the same person belonging to the PAP’s Internet Counter-Insurgents Squad, his malicious act of disinformation and attacks on TOC and Workers’ Party can be easily seen!

    What the Wayang King did not expect is that his whole self-conducted wayang show has back-fired on the PAP’s Internet Counter-Insurgents Squad very badly and discredited himself completely!
27. 

    Lai CF 19 February 2008

    You can go on and on…

    What if Jasper and WayangKIng attack on TOC is planned to give TOC credibility as a balanced non-partisan forum whereas it is actually a pro-PAP Forum?

    An ancient Chinese Strategy of torturing one of its own, a high-ranking officer, (acting as an insurgent) to give credibility to his message as a “traitor”, therefore causing his enemy to fall into a well-planned trap?

    Look like we are getting paranoid seeing spook in every nooks and corners.
28. 

    Goh Bock Seng 21 February 2008

    Dear Robert Teh,

    There is nothing wrong with having PAP members on the TOC team. Their mature and responsible views add credibility to TOC and allow it to be differentiated from the plethora of anti-establishment blogs that criticize the government most of the time.

    You have no right to question who TOC picks on its editorial board, as you are merely an outsider who, unlike TOC, have no interest in cooperating with the establishment or representing the mainstream views espoused by traditional media. You clearly do not know which side of your bread is buttered, unlike TOC.

    For you to insinuate that is TOC trying to open itself to surreptitious control by the PAP is an insult to TOC as they are perfectly capable of supporting the PAP without anyone telling them to do so.

    The PAP government (may the PAP progress!) does not need TOC to advance its agenda or promote its policies. They already have the mainstream media as well as various discussion groups and committees to do that for them. On the other hand, TOC has engendered lively debate about current issues and government policies, and in so doing, created even greater awareness, even if sometimes their arguments and line of reasoning leave much to be desired. Sadly, even TOC sometimes falls into the trap of being anti-establishment for its own sake, as if merely to impress the masses. Readers should therefore read TOC not only with an open mind, but with a critical mind as well.

    What is needed is for people like you to debate with TOC constructively and challenge them on the facts when they get their line of thought wrong, when they fail to see the forest for the trees, and when they pander to the masses for the sake of Realpolitik.

    Goh Bock Seng
29. 

    Genie99 21 February 2008

    Dear Goh Bock Seng,

    It is TOC’s choice if they wish to have PAP members on the TOC team. But to be fair it should be made known to their forumners. Whether the PAP members contribute responsibly and add credibility to TOC is insubstantial. This goes for Opposition members as well.

    When I visit a forum I expect it to try to be a neutral body. It is difficult for a commoner such as myself to have faith that the forum is trying to do that if political members are admitted into the editorial body. It is insubstantial if TOC claims that and i quote you “TOC, has no interest in cooperating with the establishment or representing the mainstream views espoused by traditional media”, that faith is lost amongst some of us. It is similar to having friends that are all criminals, few will have faith that I am not one myself. The fact I am not one is insubstantial as faith is lost amongst the public. This is a fact in life be it right or wrong. The question is why does TOC choose to go against the public faith?

    To quote you on “The PAP government (may the PAP progress!) does not need TOC to advance its agenda or promote its policies. They already have the mainstream media as well as various discussion groups and committees to do that for them.” The PAP government does not need TOC but i believe it stands to gain if TOC was there to advance its agenda. That is reason enuf for the common public’s faith in TOC as a neutral body to waiver. And as fer false accusations and questions…. that is a bi-product. If TOC is distressed about the accusations then don’t do it? Same goes for a celebrity…. if you can’t take the stress of the papparazi… don’t be a celebrity
30. 

    saintmoron 21 February 2008

    It will be good for society if people pledge allegiance to fair play instead of to alliance. Affiliation would not matters much when the common objective is the act of benevolence.

    Alliance is for people with common and similar interest and not for the oath of blind faith as in triads. It is neither for the worship of leader and leadership, respects can be accorded privately and collectively when all or majority of the people feel it at the same time individually.

    Imagine there comes a day a PAP Member of Parliament tells the Government that some policies are not sound and or that some past policies were lousy in a parliamentary debate for all to see, that will be very comforting! Is it believeable that a group of people feel and share the same ideas, opinions and wishes with no differences amongst them over a long period of time?

    I opine that one reason why a purely oppositional political party, individual and establishment is not able to win the hearts of others is simply because of a ‘one way’ thinking.
31. 

    paywithatweet 17 May 2011

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