Former Chief Executive of NTUC Income, Mr Tan Kin Lian, is calling for a “collective protest” against Income’s “bonus cut”.
In his blog posting, Tan says that he “will be asking a lawyer to organise policyholders who wish to submit a collective protest against the bonus cut. This will be sent to the board of directors and to MAS.”
Here are two excerpts from Tan’s blog posting.
We have bought many life insurance polices with NTUC Income that are affected by the recent cut in annual bonus. The reduction in bonus is about 45%. We understand that this large cut will apply not just for one year but for every year into the future.
When we bought the policies, we were given a benefit illustration showing how the future bonuses would be distributed. While the actual bonuses were not guaranteed, we expect that NTUC Income would honour the underlying promise to distribute the bonuses in the manner that was illustrated.
You can read the entire blog posting here: Tan Kin Lian.
To participate in the protest, click here.
Read also: “Tan Kin Lian, an upset Income customer” by TODAY.
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NTUC really cannot make it. Never Trust Union Chief. This is very true. They even duped their former CEO. How to buy their products?
since the CPF affects everyone – what about protesting the CPF scheme – withdrawal from 55 to 62 to 67 to death bed.
This was also a fracture of what was promised in 1970s and what was deleived in 2008.
Rgds
When the PM, MM, SM says it is golden age of Singapore to come. So is this the beginning of golden age ?
Policy and contract that went back on its words ? Won’t this be precedent for others ? Is this only applicable to government related company ? What if it is private company, will there be penalty/fine from the government ? Is this another case of double standard ?
Mr tan,
you also earn a good salary last time as CEO. why care so much??? relax lah. i thought only those at the bottom of society & hard press for money for a living will do such thing. any way i bet nothing positive will come out of any protest. all i know is very simple, earn enough money and leave this sick country.
What happened to the old postings ?
Yup… are the old postings being censored?
Suddenly there is calm on all fronts. A storm is brewing… . maybe it has to do the,….
with……the bonus stuff….
Ah,… AGM coming and venue has been changed . It is to be held at the 7 the Floor NTUC HOUSE, #1 Bouleverd Walk? Shenton Way and not at Bras Basah Road.
Zhummmeng, what is the problem of venue being changed? Make your point clear (if you even have one to begin with) rather than asking questions that makes people believe that something is wrong when there is none.
Many of your postings is just trying to create a storm in a teacup!
Fanny, isn’t it kind of uneasiness when you find the previous postings all gone? Isn’t it funny no one came out to reply to the question posed or posted? I think you are getting paranoid that you take issue with me over the very innocent harmless information and questions that i posted. Take it easy. They are not loaded. Don’t read too much into them. Take them at face value… No storm. brewing, sure. The cup would have shattered to pieces.
What happened to all the old postings and points raised. It completely disappeared. There were many good postings that question the need to cut the annual bonus and also pointed to a luxurious lifestyle of the new management of Income that includes spending $2,000 on a chair in a meeting room, extravagant spending on using posh hotels for meetings as well as exotic trips for management retreats. All those good postings were gone and in its place postings above like from “what???” were left behind. This does not give TOC a good image for balanced discussion.
PolicyHolder,
Our apologies for the missing comments. They unfortunately could not be migrated here when we moved to this new site.
However, you can still view the comments on the old blog – Click here: Http://theonlinecitizen.wordpress.com
Theonlinecitizen,
Thank You for your reply. So it is a technical problem. My faith in the TOC is restored.
Thank You
Anwar,
I pun tak boleh tahan so mesti say a few words as observer.
For NTUC – i think it is a case of salah timing to potong the bonus lah.
I read that New NTUC management team must love here, and love there. But forget must Sayang policyholders and tan Kin Lian too.
alamak, best investment yield under new team sure must give policyholders more bonus la. Never give, sure kena complain about spending on expensive chairs, high management expenses , salaries and also kena the Agen Orange bomb in ho chi ming. Give bonus – no one bother. Now too late. Everything also must explain at AGM.
Aiyoh what is happening to new management team ? Suppose to be Best talent and quality, but also kena langgar terok by Johnson Lock – the school teacher in court. Now kena langgar by ex-ceo. Still keep very quiet and only answer newspaper reporters. Dont end up like Malaysia Barisan Nasional – mesti tackle the blogs. Come on lah Public Relations 101 – everyone wait to hear your reply.
My advice – dont potong bonus lah … mesti Restore !
Even if sunat also kena complain.
Now come the budak jahat .
why ex-ceo must have collective protest I tak faham. He want collective protection to save sharks, give money to Myanmar, I support.
He want to educate and tell people his point of view on bonus – it is OK.
But petiton is too much lah ! You kachau NTUC Directors and new management to manage you. Waste time when they can concentrate on sales.
He got issue, go talk to them first. Alamak, brudders must talk to each others Not tell the whole world like give open house to come tekan NTUC and new management.
he say he dont want to interfere with new management, if this is protest is not, I dont know what is.
At the end, only the competitors win NOT ex-ceo or NTUC.
My advice – time to move on lah. He cant be bapak to NTUC forever. If they make mistakes, let them fall and learn to stand up again and be stronger. So long as they are not out to tipu anyone
How do you know he did not engage them. I have written to the new CEO before too without any reply. Many forummers also say how can anyhow write to CEO. But then when I explain that I talked to nearly 20 people and being shuffled around, gone down to different NTUC Income centres to talk to the managers but still given conflicting information and after 15 months case still not resolved still cannot write to CEO ah?
It has been proven that the new CEO tak sayang policyholders and ignore them. Concentrate on making himself comfortable through pricey chairs and renovation and expensive retreats. So Tan KL sure tak boleh tahan because he was very frugal before. Hold meetings in low-cost, no-cost venues then this wastrel comes along and hold meetings in 5 star hotels. But the main point is whether he has brought up to board of directors before, but only he knows so better not anyhow say. Whereas the 40,000 dollars chairs and expensive renovations and lavish spending is confirmed by even the agents themselves so that one can say lah.
I guess many policyholders see red because the main point is using our hardearned money to spend like water and then cutting our bonus in the name of giving us better returns in the future sounds surprisingly similar to that “Raise GST to help the POOR” theory. The difference is that in the former if we are not happy, we can vote for it during election but for this NTUC Income we have no say at all and can only look on helplessly as they continue to ignore us and spend our money. This cannot tahan lah!
Why the change of venue? To accomodate more policyholders to the meeting or to confuse them? :)
Competitors win, win lah. very good!!!yang betul , you just woke up, ha… otherwise they behave like emperor of veitnam., You know the yellow emperor.Wah, you look at his face. Really like emperor. This is only play play but he is playing emperor here. He issued an edict . You know what is the edict or not before you shoo from your hip. You know what is new emperor doing tto your money or not. Cut your annual bonus now and pay you when you are going to habis your life here. You want that? And you hantam butah, anyhow the old CEO who is trying to help all of you. You know better or he knows better. Are you an actuary? You actually anyhow hantam .
of course they won’t tipu you . They just say , vely vely soly investment not doing well, special bonus must potong and also not galantee. If you know they are going to fall why not stop it;, they may not stand up… My money , my retirement
also go, I cannot , lah. You can, you wait. My advice is to stop them and pay us our annual bonus and then let them move to where ever they want to go. Instead of playing hantam bola. We must tekan the new management at the AGM until they vomit out the truth.
Last time Government say tak boleh, mana boleh, Casino tidak bagua.
Now new generation, got F1 and 2 casino, boleh tahang or not?
Old froggies has to let the younger generation progress and lead the nation or the company to better future, keep thinking old mind works better does not do well for the future.
Attend AGM ? Don’t waste time, if one is not able to discern.
Those who go to attend with an open mind will ripe better answers from the Board and the new team.
Those with closed mind, will go there with only expectation to want their views accepted.
Sudah la, I will still seat near exit, just incase kapala pichah.
Alamak !
zhummmeng miss target.. my bottomline tells ntuc to restore.
ex-ceo first time only mention in his blog – he talking to ntuc – so that is good show.
wonder how zhummmeng ada insider information about what ex-ceo doing if he never post in his blog.
anyway, never mind – good luck to zhummmeng lah. let him gasak.
hope we hear more from next week.
The problem is having an empty mind which is open to rubbish. How to discern? against what? Everyone will end up like zombies going away resigned because a zombie has no will , no mind , open or closed it doesn’t matter. it is not an edict or fatwa, you know.
zhummmeng on May 23rd, 2008 10.15 pm
We must tekan the new management at the AGM until they vomit out the truth.
Dear Zhum,
In my opinion, anyone can tekan the new management of NTUC at the AGM till they vomit blood but I’m sure NTUC Income has done its homework and will be ready to battle back with any questions on the bonus issue. They cannot suka suka change the bonus structure wan.. I’m sure it has been looked into by the top management people, NTUC group/charimen/board members and all before it was approved. And think about it, if it was really that bad, it would have been rejected but I think now no matter what we argue the truth is there won’t be any changes because the decision has been made.
See this quote by Lorna Tan, SPH journalist (appeared on Sunday Times): “Although this reshaping has met with much resistance from former chief Tan Kin Lian and several customers who claim that it is a bad deal, Income is expected to go ahead with it”
Hi celia,
all those board members are rubber stamps. They would not interfere in technical or actuarial matters .The members don’t understand also. What about MAS? It also would not interfere and they would consider it as commercial practice even it is a bad practice.
Having said that ,the real power lies with the people , the policyholders and we can make the change. Who say we can’t? Let them test. Imagine 310,000 policyholders terminate their policies and reduce the life fund size. What flexibilities and smoothing will be left of the fund?
Insurers cannot be high handed and suka suka change or cover up something citing ‘ in the interest of policyholders” as basis to issue edict. I hope some sanity will reign at the AGM.
Hi Zhum,
I’m afraid out of the 310,000 policyholders maybe only 310 might terminate their policies. Cause even Mr Tan Kin Lian has not reached his 1,000 protest mark. It is only half way through… Though there are alot of them who are concern over this, there is also a big group of people out there who say, let the Tans battle and leave us out of this .. so, let’s just wait and see what’s going to happen during the AGM :)
Anyone remember the case of the board of directors of NKF? Even the chairman of the board of directors, what is his name, I forgot, the one who was described to be a dandy, admitted that most of the time, he just sign on the dot and does not really know what is going on. The CEO of NKF was the one who draft all the letters and documents and he just sign. So I agree with Zhummmeng that it is not an absolute that the board really knows.
We can’t expect all the board of directors to be the same right? Out of 10 directors, I’m sure 1 will be alert. It is not fair to judge everyone in the same manner. I’m sure the bonus issue has been looked into and dealt with internally. I believe Income made this decision to protect the long-term financial interests of its policyholders. The new bonus structure has been widely accepted as prudent and a best practice adopted by most insurance companies around the world. The overall high returns will still be distributed back to policyholders. I urge all the policyholders to understand the theory before following the cat’s tail blindly.
Jen , don’t be naive . Have you seen the board members? Who are they? Actuaries? What do they know about the bonuses, the reversionary and the terminal? Come on, they just rubber stamp it after being briefed as a formality. Have you ever attended a AGM? You can either go to sleep or you have a lot of drama, it depends on people present. People who know how to spot irregularities will raise difficult questions if not the whole proceeding will just sail through. For ntuc the board is a rubber stamp; none of them knows the technicalities. They want to know the bottom line only and some craps. If the ceo says some good craps the rest will sing the chorus .
Next, have you ever heard of any ceo saying he she is doing something NOT in the interest of the policyholders? What I am doing now isn’t it ALSO protecting the long term interest of the policyholders?. I am trying to debunk or raise doubt what the new bonus structure can benefit the policyholders. When you say ,IT MAY OR MAY NOT it is already uncertainty, right? And to reap high special bonus the policyholders need a lot of luck. But why should we depend on luck when we can have certainty? .Following the crowd will end as far as the crowd. That is what had happened in the past.Those companies followed industry practice, right? But why should NTUC follow the crowd?. For what? to be the number one? for whose glory? Did you know its original goal? IT’S ORIGINAL GOAL WAS TO PROVIDE INSURANCE AT MONEY FOR VALUE AND AT AFFORDABLE COST TO THE MAN IN THE STREET AND TO BE #1 FOR THIS and not to be # 1 in market share. For this No other company has ever beaten NTUC to it because of the cooperative values like declaring higher vested annual bonus . It need not to be like others. It is set apart. And before you echo the new management ‘s about cat’s tail remember not to end up as lemmings down the cliff.
My father who was the VP of a major Finance company, one of the Big Three in Singapore, never bought insurance and told me the reason. He said when it comes to claims they have a whole team to see how they can avoid payment. That was over twenty years ago.
I checked up on all the insurance companies in Singapore and bought all my policies from NTUC Income, as I believed in its co-operative principles. I found NTUC Income to be different, as its mission is to help, and profitablility is not its main concern but the welfare of its policyholders is. Alas, now I regretted not taking my father’s advice. He was right. Now NTUC Income wants to be like the rest.
For nearly twenty years, I enjoyed the protection of NTUC Income in the firm belief that should something happen to me, my family will be taken care of financially. I had peace of mind. Since the change in management, I did not have peace of mind. I told NTUC Income so, both in writing and verbally over the phone. Nobody cared what I think.
Lately, I began to think that being insured with NTUC Income is harzardous to my health. The last straw is this bonus cut. I have decided on a new strategy that will improve my health and avoid having no peace of mind. I have decided to cancel my policies, so I do not have to get upset with the noncharlence of NTUC Income anymore. I will also not need to spend time monitoring its activities and its many fancy moves. I intend to use the part of the money that goes into the protection to buy myself a gym membership, exercise programs and health supplements to improve my health. I will use the monetary investment part of my policies to invest in the stock market and commodities.
This way, I have absolute control over my money and health rather than pay the same money and get all upset over it. This way, I have a higher chance of living a longer, happier life and get to retire richer than if I were to continue insuring with NTUC Income. Can anyone here tell me how much of my $1,000 per month that I am paying for my policies is for protection and how much is for investment so I can proportion it accordingly.
I feel relieved and the stress is gone from the continued struggle to engage an indifferent and arrogant NTUC Income.
Thanks in advance for any reply to my question.
Hi Mr. RealPolicyholder,
Assuming you are 50 years old, to insure $250K against death and disability till 65 years with option to renew , the premium is about $120 monthly.
To insure $200K (it depends on the number of years of living expenses) against critical illnesses till 65, the premium is $250 monthly.
If death comes first the total coverage is $350K for dependents.
Assuming you need that much of coverage you will leave about $600 a month to invest in a well diversified fund at return of 6%. This will translate into $170K when you hit 65 years old.( no guarantee just like the special bonus but unlike special bonus it can be higher)
After 65, you can throw away your insurance if you have no needs like legacy or have dependents. Make sure you have a medical plan like medishield or incomeshield or any shield to take care of the hosptialisation expenses if one should contract critical illness and of course have plenty of money .This is the self insurance you MUST have.
I hope this can start you off.
Disclaimer:The above is for illustration purpose and not to be used as template. Please engage an HONEST and COMPETENT ADVISER with proper qualification and who has YOUR interest at heart. DON”T engage an insurance salesman because the commission for term products will not be enough to incentivise them to do a proper job.
zhummmeng,
NTUC’s vision has long been lost. Remind me of our national anthem,
“We, the citizens of Singapore
Pledge ourselves as one united people
Regardless of race, language or religion
To build a democratic society
Based on justice and equality
So as to achieve happiness, prosperity & progress for our nation”
How much of the pledge is true ? In fact, it has never been true since day 1. How can that be democratic when the voice is suppress and dissident been accused of being communism. Singaporean need to wake up of Singapore dream and start taking the red pill.
“The blue pill will leave us as we are, in a life consisting of habit, of things we believe we know. We are comfortable, we do not need truth to live. The blue pill symbolises commuting to work every day, or brushing your teeth.
The red pill is an unknown quantity. We are told that it can help us to find the truth. We don’t know what that truth is, or even that the pill will help us to find it. The red pill symbolises risk, doubt and questioning. In order to answer the question, you can gamble your whole life and world on a reality you have never experienced.”
http://www.arrod.co.uk/essays/matrix.php
zhummmeng, I concur with you that we have to start questioning the company that they are doing it in the name of interest for Singaporean. Remember that this NTUC is a profit-orientated company that belong to Singapore Incorporated run by the Lee’s dynasty that has no quell in taking money from the citizens, and spend lavishly to nowhere land. We have seen and experience enough that Singaporean ought to wake up now and see for themselves rather than rely on propaganda and rhetoric…
The truth is smoothing isn’t that smooth. Read about Equitable Life ‘s collapse.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3547441.stm
What put the last nail to the coffin was the restructuring . It left a big hole, so big that our MRT train can pass through.
Before one gets into the gullible mode one should make it a suspect and approach it from there.
We are nearing the big day . Be prepared with a lot of questions and and not leave a blank cheque behind.
Thanks Zhummmeng,
So now I will use about $350 every month for my health supplements, gym exercises and $650 for my investments. I tried to click on the link embedded in your name but each time it did not lead me to your website. Just wanted to contact you for a confidential discussion.
Thanks
Dear RealPolicyholder, I am sorry I can’t reveal my identity to you. But if you need help, you can seek help from this association, FPAS, for a Financial Planner with a suitable qualification like CFP. The website is http://www.fpas.org.sg.
CFP is a global qualification and its best practice has been accepted as ISO industry standard. If you should be aggieved by a member for professional misconduct you can seek redress for compensation or disciplinary action.
My objective of posting here is to look out, not policing, for errant views that will bring disrepute to the financial industry and to help consumers understand better what they should be getting from their advisers.
Thanks and all the best. Be at the AGM and give your views.
Man, a real disappointment !
The body of tan kin lian as he walked down the auditorium said all – A Very tired and spiritless man. Like he went many rounds in a heavyweight boxing contest. After reading from a prepared text , he raised a few more points and left way before the agm ended. Oh why ?
did tankin lian finally conceded that the old structure was unsustainable ?
did he failed to get 1000 signatures the reason for giving up the protest ?
so what did the protest manage to achieved ?
was zhummeng there ? what are his thoughts ?
What do you think, cat’s wiskers? He wasn’t doing for you and i don’t think you needed him to speak up for you..
I can see you that you are happy with the new structure.
Please read below and find out yourself what the new structure can do for you.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3547441.stm
i wonder how zhummeng draws his astounding assumptions based on my posting
Purr ! I can understand why he has been criticised for his unintelligible comments in the other blog. No more back office comments please.
I can see no one is going to offer the Truth !
The truth is NTUC is progressing backward(is it an oxymoron). The retro products that have been rolled out recently is testimony of an inward looking company. Take a look at its new slogan. What an outdated and narrow slogan like “Make insurance Make a difference”. The problem is, the difference is making more people under insured.The whole world is moving towards holistic finance , it is still stuck in one narrow groove of personal finance.
i remember during the old management it was something like ” MAKE LIFE BETTER” Slogan reveals the company’s mission and its culture and this slogan certainly encompasses a broader and holistic meaning to make policyholders’ life better in every area. That is progress
.But the new one is hidden by restructure and reshaping which is characteristic of this new management. For instance, the products, they are reshaped and restructured products and worse they have been reshaped out of shape. At the core of the products and hidden by frills, is an old but diluted and impotent product after much restructuring..
That is the truth.
A financial consultant and 16 others in todays Straits Times forum
” explained that the old structure was unsustainable, and that the new one is meant to produce better returns for policyholders in the long term, while potecting their short-term yields.” By increasing the resilience of the life fund, the new structure allows for smoothing of yields so that policyholders have a lower risk of seeing their bonuses cut in a bad investment year.
“By opting to continue with their life policies, they have signalled their continued trust in Income. We do not take this for granted, and will continue to work hard to reciprocate the trust and support they have extended towards us.”
Cat’s Meow: Again, no one explained why the old structure is unsustainable ? How many present Directors approved the old structure ? When did it become unsustainable ?
Will NTUC’s management announced how many participating policyholders who are affected bythe bonus restructure terminated their affected policies ?
As tan kin lian said, ntuc should be able to convince its affected policyholders.
NTUC agents are repeating what was said before. It is nothing new . They have to support whatever the management said. Coming out to the public forum is one of the ways of sucking up to the management and will not change anything. it is a personal agenda. it is a case of ” tripoding” the new management . I am sure this the same group who sucked up to Mr. TanKL…the same sycophants of nTUC would stoop to anything .
The old structure is better. It is like having a bird in the hand rather than having two (you may not get) in the bush. Why the new structure is dangerous read this again.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3547441.stm
The failure of Equitable Life was due to dubious manipulation of undistributed special bonus.
freedom of expression depends on who owns it, right?
The so called consultants, (this title was changed recently), of NTUC cannot hoodwink the public by claiming that the restructuring has lowered the risk of par products. On the contrary it is as risky as the diversified equity portfolio.You are better off buying a regular ILP plan than to continue with the change which you have no control.. The letter is misrepresenting and the public must be wary of this. I urge the public to consult a real qualified financial planner to help assess the risk of these products. I repeat that the public’s interest will be well served by studying what happened to theEquaitable Life cited by NTUC’s consultant.The collapse of Equitable life was caused by too much hoarding in the special bonus and the collapse came in those bad investment years resulting massive losses..
The so called industry practice is NOT the industry practice. There is another practice , a more popular one called asset share practice.
The Penrose report on the collapse of Equitable Life will lend credence to danger of pursuing a high special bonus as a marketing ploy for growth and market share.
“Growth for growth’s sake is not an aim of the society; providing FIRST CLASS benefits to our policyholders is…..”
“To provide life assurance and related facilities to a AS MANY PEOPLE as is consistent with HIGH STANDARD OF PRODUCT ,SERVICE AND ADVICE.”
Deviation from these objectives in pursuit of market share can be an obsession with some management that it loses sight of of its original goals.
What can happen when faced with poor investment market and having too much in the special bonus.
“on 1974–Dec31 , market value of the society’s equity investment had fallen below book value, from 18 million pounds to 1 million pounds.”
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/independent_reviews/penrose_report/indrev_pen_index.cfm
Cat Whiskers,
The article below from channelnewsasia forum has debunked the spin generated by the Straits Times letter with the 16 signatures.
“An Income agent said that several of his policyholders have terminated their policies as they have lost trust in Income. I wish to advise policyholders not to terminate your policies for this reason, as you will be incurring a large loss due to the high upfront charge.”
The ground has spoken. Policyholders have responded to Income’s not meeting their reasonable expectations. How many policyholders does a normal Income agent have? I guess is several. So this several PHs from an Income agent is testimony to a majority of PHs terminating their policies. This puts to rest some unreasonable posters and writers who posted on the web and wrote to the press trying to cover up the true position by saying that only a small minority is unhappy with NTUC Income. As we see now, it is not a small minority but the majority. Of course, NTUC Income is free to publish the actual number of PHs who terminated their policies but in not doing so it should also not try to paint a false picture to the public. The fact that PHs are terminating their policies even though they are incurring a huge loss just goes to show their immense anger and dissatisfaction with an organization which they have trusted for decades and the betrayal that they have suffered under the new management of NTUC Income.
“Should the special bonus in future reduce due to adverse financial conditions, we are committed to restoring it when conditions improve.”
Why should policyholders believe this statement? The fact is that NTUC Income said the same thing with annual bonuses. They were cut during 2000 – 2003 or thereabouts. When 2007 financial conditions improved to a record of 10.7%, not only were annual bonuses not restored, it was cut by 45%. PHs reasonable expectations were not met and now after the unreasonable and unilateral cut NTUC Income still have the cheek to say this? Unbelievable!
“18. I hope I have managed to give you a better understanding and appreciation of the position regarding the bonus restructuring. We will not hurt policyholders and shareholders. And we shall also not allow NTUC Income to be hurt. “
Nope. PHs do not appreciate NTUC Income’s new position nor its new management. You have hurt policyholders trust, built up over decades of steady, sturdy and steadfast insurance to grateful policyholders. You have hurt our finances, built up over decades of prudent financial planning. You have hurt our pride, built up over decades of recommending NTUC Income to our friends and relatives by inconsistent, insensitive and downright arrogance through ignoring our calls, emails and by not listening to your customers.You have also allowed NTUC Income to be hurt by your extravagant new management. By allowing them to splurge on expensive furniture and high expenditure, you have hurt policyholders’ interest and the co-operative’s image!
“Let us give some time to Income to sort out this problem.”
How much time? Since the AGM nothing more is heard from Income except for the letter with 16 signatures from its agents that try to cover up the unhappiness by painting a false picture of bliss and satisfaction which have been debunked by the fact that PHs are now terminating their policies. They do not even bother to reply to the many objections raised by online readers and continue to post periodic posts to continue this line of pretence. Below are some highlights of the objections by PHs to that letter:-leesg123
June 09, 2008 Monday, 10:13 AM
________________________________________
“the old structure was unsustainable”? Linda and gang dont know what they are talking about, merely quoting what the management has said on “unsustainable”! The old structure in simple form is like this: In good years, higher bonus declared and locked, in bad years, lower or no bonus declared. Why unsustainable??? Bonus declared are after putting aside for biz expenses and buffer?
surfnews
June 09, 2008 Monday, 10:42 AM
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Income has not provided more transparency on why the bonus structure is not sustainable. Giving Tan Kin Lian a “Mahathir” label does not contribute to the discussion or solve the policy holders’ concern.
rufino1995
June 09, 2008 Monday, 12:29 PM
________________________________________
This boils down to let’s see what are the results in 20 yrs. time! Neither the chairman nor this CEO will be around to either take the glory or to address the fall out from this move. This new management is not committed to their Primary Aim, that it is a SOCIAL enterprise as the previous management. Just like anything goverment, the bottom line must be good not average BUT Good or great! Very sad……
The huge difference between ex Tan and Mahathir, is he is willing to discuss and know when to back down, to give the new management, to work it out….
# leesg123 : I agree with you, keep the structure simple, and the new management to explain clearer, “Why is the old structure not sustainable?”
Finally, Is this a prelude to listing?
FedUpWithStupidComments
June 09, 2008 Monday, 02:27 PM
________________________________________
Quote from letter:
“By opting to continue with their life policies, they have signalled their continued trust in Income.”
This is misleading. When you have committed to an insurance policy, there is a significant penalty in canceling it. Your clients would not be free to walk away, even if they wanted to.
Retireed
June 10, 2008 Tuesday, 04:04 AM
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Is this an example of the NTUC Income PR machinery at work to try to repair the damage? Linda Oh is a top saleswoman in Income. I knew her from her National Semiconductor days when she worked as a receptionist. It is in her vested interest to write this to support her new management. To say that the majority now accept is unsupported imagination. A more accurate picture would be the statistics provided in Mr. Tan Kin Lian’s blog survey, which registered a 76% of NTUC Income policyholders disagreement to withdraw the collective protest. Not surprisingly, the poll was withdrawn after being put up for a short while. NTUC Income will do anything to stop more adverse publicity from tarnishing its reputation.
We do not need to wait 20 years to see the result of this smoothing. NTUC Income has indicated that it forsees the coming years as being less profitable due to uncertainty in investment climate.
The past 10 years were however good years as the returns were an average of 7.8%, even taking into account the bad years in 2001 and 2002 when bonuses were cut to reflect this. Last year was an exceptional year with a 10.7% return. Even then, policies that are maturing this year missed out on their projected yields. This is confirmed by the posting found on Mr. Ex-CEO’s blog reproduced below:-
Dear Mr. Tan
My child’s education policy matured lately. However, the increase in cash value is lower than the previous three years. I though that the value should increase more, according to the duration.
Below are the cash values:
Year Cash value Increase
2005 $37,956
2006 $44,734 $6,778
2007 $49,461 $4,727
2008 $52,397 $2,936 (maturity)
Is the maturity amount applied to everyone in the same age group and sum insured? In 2003, the insurance company send a letter stating that the estimated maturity amount is higher than the $52,397.
JT
REPLY
I suggest that you write to ask the insurance company. Their actuary should be able to give you an explanation.
Posted by Tan Kin Lian at 8:55 PM 0 comments
All those who have policies maturing this year can take out their policies and see whether the projected yields have been met. If NTUC Income cannot even meet their projected yields of 5.5% when the returns are an average of 7.8% for the last ten years and 10.7% last year then how does it expect to meet it when the investment climate has been forcasted to be poorer from now onwards?Policyholders want very much to cancel their policies now but the penalty for cancelling prematurely is as stated in every policy document which emphasizes the hefty penalty of up to 2 to 3 years of premiums gone down the drain. Also there is the insurability risk which will be worse than when the policy was first taken years ago. This is the reason why many policyholders are so angry that this unilateral move by NTUC Income is causing to their financial planning. Terminate the policies and lose money and insurability. Continue and lose every year in annual bonus cuts as well as seeing agents like Linda Oh rubbing their hands in glee and saying that they have the full support of policyholders who voted with their feet by not cancelling policies. To put HIllcrest “logic” into perspective, out of the thousands of NTUC Income “financial consultants” only 16 signed the letter, that should tell you what the majority of financial consultants think. LOL, come on, policyholders are more intelligent than that.
The truth about insurance can be found in Tan Kin Lian’s blog which give viewers an unbiased account of the state of the insurance industry now. For policyholders like myself who have bought my policies for decades it is now with regret and anguish that we lose sleep everynight and have no peace of mind. We do not wish others to be in the same plight where as the popular cantonese saying goes” Tip chein mai nan sou” which translated means “pay money to suffer”. Would you make a decision to buy a policy after hearing the insurance consultant or adviser or would you rather listen to an unbiased account first? The choice is yours as it is your money, but buying insurance is unlike buying a TV. It is a long term committment where early termination penalises you severely. The fact today is that we cannot do anything about it when insurers decide to cut bonuses unilaterally. Policyholders are still smarting from that decision by NTUC Income from which we have no recourse.
In conclusion, the various posters trying to do PR damage control for NTUC Income by sending its agents and vested parties to spin damage control articles by saying that PHs are now satisfied and trusted NTUC Income is just wrong. Instead of admitting their mistakes and coming clean with PHs, NTUC Income is further clouding its credibility by these postings and letters. It is insult to injury and therefore invalidates any comments that NTUC Income has the interests of its policyholders. It is by action and not by words alone. Here we see the difference between the former management where all their actions have won the trust of PHs for the past thirty years and therefore we understand and did not protest even when annual bonuses were cut in the early years of 2000s.
Like what was very well said above and I repeat it here for its relevance. “[size=18]If NTUC Income cannot even meet their projected yields of 5.5% when the returns are an average of 7.8% for the last ten years and 10.7% last year then how does it expect to meet it when the investment climate has been forecasted to be poorer from now onwards?”
Finally, this unfortunate episode has even greater ramifications for our government as many policyholders view its links with our government. I daresay that the reputation of the PAP government is intertwined with NTUC Income’s reputation. Continued ignorance of this is to its own peril.
Wah low!!! I thought everyone has forgotten and here you have “Singaporean” raking up the old wound, NTUC must be thinking…. Let me add. So long no answers are forthcoming from the top the ground will remain volatile . if you think that remaining silent hoping that it will be blown away by time. it is wishful thinking…it is to your ire
To begin, each trade union in Singapore should stop promoting NTUC insurance to its members.
I recently read about NTUC expensive spending habits here:
http://kiasee123.blogspot.com/
Looking at the videos there and the splurging makes it very worrying to buy Life Insurance from them. There just lost 11% of the policy holders’ LIFE FUND and (hundreds of them) are enjoying exotic holidays paid by the company!
The CEO refuses to divulge his pay.
I think bonuses (if any) from NTUC income will be low and lower if they keep spending and gambling like that.
Inflation rate is already twice their rate of returns. Really regret the commitment to buy from NTUC income.