Shall we say it is due to “complacency” again?

And that the “system itself is sound”?

This is the second lapse since the Mas Selamat escape fiasco. The other one being the attempted escape from the court room.

Obviously, the Home Affairs Minister must take some responsibility but ….

We, citizens, are totally appalled and flabbergasted that DPM Wong Kan Seng is not taken to task for the many lapses that had occurred under his ministry, other than delegating the blame on those under his authority.

This is a systemic malpractice openly displayed by PAP and their only reasonable excuse (for themselves) is one of being the ruling party.

Recent cases of lapses in other countries were prominently reported in ST. Eg. A military chief of the US was sacked when some weapons were mistakenly shipped to Taiwan. Any sane person will know that the military chief does not personally oversee and deliver the weapons to intended destination. His sacking was nonetheless a case of transparency and accountability for lapses under his charge.

The danger of a parliament without a strong opposition is best illustrated in this case.

This is truly outrageous! But it happened before your very own eyes! What more is there to say…

>>Any lapse by any department in the Home Team is a failure which ALL in the Home Team family must bear.’

ALL = everyone?

Another blame game. It is possible Mas Selamat has escaped using other people’s passport .

WKS: yada yada yada…

Mr Ang is no Mas Selamat or some dangerous terrorist. Therefore instead of being relieved, the ICA officer should instead be given a pay raise to guard against further mistakes. The officer need not issue any apology to his superiors either. That would be inline with the fine example set by WKS and LHL. WKS might further add “What to do? It has happened.” LOL

Then again we know Mr Ang is not an opposition politician, because then even innocence and the right passport won’t help LOLL!

We come to know on reported case, how many of those unreported cases in the pass ? Where are the problems ? All take for granted from top to bottom with too many good years. Look at the event happen in this year, all of us should do critical thinking as Mr. Wang post in his blodg.

Let’s be more gracious and forgiving instead of exuding hostility towards mistakes like this. I am sure we do not want our government to exude the same kind of hostility unto us right? Yes, it is a serious security breach, rectify it and move on. The system is not fool-proof. Ya, for this case, it is neglience and complacency.

” But this will not be enough. I have been reminding officers of the need for vigilance repeatedly after each lapse of human error. Obviously the message is not sinking in deep enough to the last man”

Of course its not sinking in deep. Its leadership by example. Who would respect or want to follow a leader who has not taken ownership and looks only to secure his own ass.

How many cock-ups at the lower levels does it take, to be able to say that the guy on top is incompetent?

I can understand the rationale for shielding top people from sometimes violatile public opinion so that they can focus on doing their job well.

However, here, we have 3 dozes of incompetence from 3 different branches of the “home affairs familiy” and still no accountability from the single source of authority who can be said to be overall responsible for all 3 cock-ups.

If this were a top investment bank paying top dollars, the shamefaced person would surely be typing his letter right now, and making a quiet exit. No such luck here. It must surely Pay And Pay to be a mini-star, with all the powers, privileges and perks on par with the world’s best corporate paychecks, but none of the accountability, and at the end of the day, its the small people who will pay.

WKS: ‘Any lapse by any department in the Home Team is a failure which all in the Home Team family must bear.’

Everyone except himself and those he had “known for many years”. What fine exemplary leadership!
I guess WKS is not part of the Home Team? LOL

He has the gall to chastise the whole HOME TEAM? When is it time that the rest of the Cabinet/ PM/MM/SM think WKS is an outright Liability to Singapore? From simple errors to letting a known terrorist head escape/slip.
We have a full DPM who is obviously incompetent. It s not now that a wanted person was ‘allowed’ to slip through – remember Richard Yong? No Flight Risk? When was this? Last year?
Do the honorable thing WKS… RESIGN.

Looking at the latest lapse from Home Team its a good thing that WKS did not offer to resign due to Selamat-gate….else WKS have to offer to resign for the 2 escape prisoner, the passport lapse….and who knows how many more lapse had taken place that the press did not pick up…

seriously is this isolate or systemic?

WKS will need to offer to resign for at least 3 times and each time it will be refuse…maybe thats why he did not offer to resign else its very tiring to hear him offfer to resign for all the lapses by Home Team….

crap…

I think we all know who are the “untouchables” are in SIngapore. They can make any number of mistakes, blunders and can be seen by many to be mediocre, yet they will not only remain but will be handsomely rewarded as well. These people are quick to claim the praise but are the first to blame everything from the global economy, the opposition and even the little people when something goes wrong. They are quick to come down hard on any opposition and are quick to set very high standards for anyone opposing them. They brush off their own shortcoming by claiming that mistakes can happen, or what to do or its a honest mistake and finally call all of us to “move on”. Eventually people see through all the rhetoric and will lose all respect for them. But then these men don’t need your respect, all they want is you vote so that they can continue to enrich themselves and live the life of an elite untouchable.

thick skin

u know u can’t keep a straight face for long..the problem is nobody got the guts to call a spade a spade.

Top pillar not straight, the lower support will be bend.

This is outrages. How many more mistakes like this before someone is accountable. However I’m more concern with the happening in the Gurkha contingent. This is because they are easily armed and could wreak havoc if runs out of hand. The MHA owes us an answer and not just some internal matters.

What to do, it’s happened.

wow lau how many more mistake b4 he resign ??!!!!! anyone

Mistakes do happen. All of us are only human. This latest case is not exactly in the same scale as the Whitley road incident so I think some perspective is needed.

However, I do think a constant rotation of portfolios at all levels of the home team is desirable to instill a fresh perspective and refocus efforts in the right direction.

Many organisations practice a rotation policy for good reasons (and no reflection on the ability of the rotated people). Indeed, WKS has been heading the Home affairs portfolio for 14 years. That’s quite long for any portfolio.

I do not doubt WKS’ ability but I think having a new head at the Home ministry is a good and timely move. Effective ministers like Khaw Boon Wan are more than capable of swopping portfolios. Indeed, Khaw’s methodical approach towards health issues might be exactly what the home ministry needs…

This is absolutely disgusting and frightening. Wong Kan Seng should have been sacked after the Mas escape. Now there is even greater urgency that he be removed immediately so that a new brain with a clean pair of hands can go in to fixed the rotten mess in the entire Home Team.

“…Yet Mr Low was ‘totally silent’ when Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong asked if he thought Deputy Prime Minister and Home Affairs Minister Wong Kan Seng should quit.

Said Dr Ng: ‘His statement is baffling. What then was the point of his question to the Prime Minister? Was it just another political ploy?’”

Yippy yahoo…LTK might juz get another chance…hopefully PM doesn’t AWOL

This is the result of having the same minister after so many years. Just as things don’t last forever and the almighty Sun will eventually run out of nuclear fuel, so does WKS. He’s not forever. We need a new minister.

HOME team seriously needs thorough HOUSE-cleaning

This is too much. We need some urgent action from the government. Seems the home team is only good at catching activists and stifling democracy.

Ng Eng Hen should point finger at Mr LowTK for not bringing up the issue of how to check passport at ICA. Blame the opposition ok. MIW has no fault at all. the Gurkha issue is swept under carpet. It is not the time to change the minister by rotation. IT IS TIME TO CHANGE THE GOVERNMENT!!!! THE PEOPLE ARE FED UP !!!!!

This is terrible !!!!!! How about the girl who got raped because the police pass her to her “boyfriend”…

How about the man whose passport was impounded by the police and managed to obtain a replacement on the ground that he had lost his passport?Was there no communication between the police and the passport department? Is a police report required for lost of passport? Why didn’t the passport department ask for the police report?

Hi guys,

i am just wondering in what instance would WKS actually have to step down? he can never be personally responsible for any of the lapses, as he is obviously not involved in the operations! Hence it will always be someone else’s fault. The faults in the mas selamat case was clearly systemic, but it was argued that the person in charge of that system (the commander of the detention centre, i think) should be reprimanded. So again my query is what event must occur before the PM says WKS you have to go??
Just some thoughts…

“the problem is nobody got the guts to call a spade a spade”. Unquote.

blackfeline, may I say the problem is, nobody got the gut to admit oneself as a spade.

Folks; to err is human, so let forgive and forget if the Administrators are able to do the same to their charges directly involved in all the Lapses. So far, the Administrators seemed to forgive themselves or rather absolve themselves of all blames.

patriot.

Rotating the ministers will be a futile excercise when the majority are at best 3rd rate. This is the most serious problem that is affecting Singapore and compounded when the regime is adamant on keeping those who are way past their use-by-date.

The negative impact on the general public is getting worse and will continue until 2011. I agree it is a good time to change the government.

So what is new?

Before it is too late:

“To err is human, to forgive divine, to give up half of one’s salary is the right thing to do now”

hello abg fandi

in my most humble opinion i think the only thing that can force any minister to step down are scandals. like acts of corruption or sexual acts ala Clinton.but many like me believe they are incorruptible and honestly fugly so yah they will never have to step down or be fired. anyways it was an isolated case lets move on to the many other isolated cases.

Some of MHA’s achievements:

2004 – Huang Na’s killer escaped on toilet break under police custody.
2006 – Tan Chor Jin (One-Eyed Dragon) escaped to Malaysia, allegedly on a fake passport.
2006 – NKF Richard Yong managed to flee to Hong Kong.
2008 – Mas Selamat Kastari – toilet break again.
2008 – Two detainees’ attempted escape frorm Subordinate Court.
2008 – Ng Ting Hwa, the employee who siphoned almost S$2m from his company, fled to Malaysia when he’s under investigation.
2008 – Gurkhas’ scuffle over salary.
2008 – A retiree unintentionally bypassed Changi Airport’s security using his son’s passport.

If a cat has nine lives…

If a cat has nine lives… he has 1 more :)

Wong KS, I am appalled and flabbergasted at your lack of responsibility. Step aside and let someone take over if you cant do a good job.!!!

[...] annoyed me was not the fact that it has happened again but what the Minister has to say regarding this event. What it means is perfectly summed up [...]

i believe lapses happen all the time. only this time, they were caught. once i went on an early flight and had to check in at 630am. the guy who was in chage of the x-ray machine checking check-in luggage for SQ for bombs was sleeping at his machine in front of everyone. this was like just after 9-11…

then..recently i cleared the customs at the second link, the policewomen manning the exit point to check the faces of people leaving singapore was playing PSP. this was after mas selamat’s escape…

Hallo…it’s ALL YOU people’s fault! You voted him in!

you guys are being overly harsh on the ministry.

it is obvious that the MHA has done a good job. I am sure that such lapses happen everywhere, in Singapore, in China, in USA wherever. It is probably quite common that someone uses another person’s passport to take a flight.

We instead should be thankful that the MHA has kept singapore safe for the past 40 years . Singapore is both the safest country in the world as well as the best country. Our economy is strong and continues to grow stronger. All these can only be done with the leadership and guidance of top notch talent such as Wong Kan Seng.

In fact, we should both be thankful to the MHA as well as to Mindef for keeping Singapore safe.

Singaporeans are too quick to point a finger when something happens. They should examine themselves first.

Westin,

Yes, we should be grateful for the MHA. It has done such a wonderful job that 3 serious security breaches in 4 months should be forgiven. We should instead call for WKS to have a salary increase because, in your words, he has done such a marvelous job that the number one terrorist has escaped and still remain at large.

Yes indeed. Lets give WKS a pay raise for that!

By the way, are they handling out National Day awards yet? I think you’d qualify – just for writing what you wrote. ;)

These epsiodes show that Ministers do not really ‘run’ their Ministries. Rather, these routine matters in the Ministries are run by civil servants down to the rank and file through the bureaucracy. As routine matters are, well, routine and boring, and there are already SOPs (standard operating procedures), the clockwork should wind regularly and without mishaps, so the well-paid Minister can concentrate on prosecuting and persecuting political activists, psychotic rebels, gay dissidents, and controversial movie-producers. If once in a while, or few times a year, foul-ups happen, then he has to knock the civil servant heads to show his clout and to salvage his PR.

But it seems such episodes are happening more frequently under Lee Jr. You seldom have these under Lee Sr. (either because they are hushed up and the Minister reshuffled or asked to step down for renewal reasons under a routine cabinet reshuffle, or everyone is more fearful to incur his wrath?). It also seems Lee Jr is donning kids’ gloves in dealing with his cronies?

Lifeslikethat,

you are detracting from the issue at hand. Furthermore you are twisting my words. I didn’t mention that they should raise the minister’s salary. But they are definitely deserving of their current salary.

Truth is that the current singapore government is the best we have. If even the best cannot do it, do you think that you or another alternative government can really do it?

Come on, even the Italian’s can get knocked out by spain ; even world champions make mistake once in awhile. Likewise, we should not keep blaming the government for any mishaps.

Instead it boils down to complacency. You know it, I know it. Even the FT knows it. that is why they are taking your jobs. You know that if you offer the same services at the same price as the FT, there is no economical reason that employers will not hire you.

it happen again !!! don’t be surprise if u see mas selamat working in disguise as a taxi driver, earning his living cos funny things always happen in singapore .

westin,
‘it is obvious that the MHA has done a good job. I am sure that such lapses happen everywhere, in Singapore, in China’
Are you sure that you are comparing apple to apple? You are comparing two mega countries to this small little state and I understand that ministers of these countries do not get such a sky high salary. So, how can you compare him to ministers of these countries that do not pay their minister very very very well? Do remember Singapore is hardly a welfare country, so why should we talk about past performance? When we run like a company, we act like a company. We talk about efficiency. I simply cannot accept a talk which tells people that here, we run like a company, when we see mistake made by singapore elites, we must have a heart that a country must have. Sound very strange right when two very different system running together….
I think you are simply too bias…

I think we are getting a LKY prescribed dose of “mediocre government”.

I am appalled at the attitude of Singaporeans to mistakes that must occur from time to time.

The photograph on the passport is usually taken a few years ago. It may be difficult for the immigration officer to detect the difference between a father and son from the photograph. It is sometimes diffiult to judge a person’s age from his physical appearance.

If our immigration officers have to screen through 350.000 Singaporeans and visitors each day, an error rate of 1% of 1% means that 35 people will have to be missed daily.

Is there a big security risk? I doubt it. If I am a criminal trying to flee Singapore, there are better and easier ways to leave this place than using a wrong passport.

I do not like to see over-reaction that will lead to stricter measures that will create a lot of inconvenience to ordinary people who has to travel.

I do not tolerate complacency. I am very irrated to see customer service officers chatting among themselves, rather than serving the customer. This also applies to immigration officers. They should pay attention to their work, rather than chat among themselves to relieve the boredom. I hope that the supervisors can instill this discipline.

Let us accept mistakes as they occur and do not try to exaggerate their impact. We are not a perfect society. Let us focus on the more important things in life.

Tan Kin Lian wrote:
“Let us accept mistakes as they occur and do not try to exaggerate their impact. We are not a perfect society. Let us focus on the more important things in life.”

I have to disagree.

Pray tell us, what other important things in life are you refering to? I have Minister Mah saying the gov should not subsidise while all people are calling for tax reduction.

I have the government telling the public that they have suck up the inflation and the government has no control over it. Global economy, etc. Hog-wash! Because they CAN implement policies which help alleviate the inflation pains faced by the people. All these billion dollar savings are for ‘rainy’ days. Well, these are rainy days where the common man on the street feels the pinch. So when are ‘rainy’ days according to the gov? When there is an earthquake, when there is a major flood, when there is a bomb?

Then I have Minister LSS say the government does not profit from ERP. Yeah right, who are kidding? Tell me which policies have the gov implement in which they do not make money from the common people? Think POSB and you are not far off.

I also have the government telling me SBS, MRT have privatised. So need to profit for stakeholders. Tell me, who are the stakeholders? Some American bosses, or our very own SG ministers? Now these entities are geared towards making profits. So I wonder where the word ‘Public’ in public transport comes from?

Then I have the government telling me to pro-create, to accept foreign talents, etc. But the policies in place sucks.

Look, I’m not here to fuel fire the already bashed-up reputation of the MHA and WKS. but then screw-ups keep happening and you continue to receive million dollar salaries, something has got to go. And I think WKS, it’s about time.

So what other important matters that we should move on to if the incumbent party keeps screwing up all the time? Someone pray tell me again.

Feeling the heat coming out,
Kaffein

/// I am appalled at the attitude of Singaporeans to mistakes that must occur from time to time.

The photograph on the passport is usually taken a few years ago. It may be difficult for the immigration officer to detect the difference between a father and son from the photograph. It is sometimes diffiult to judge a person’s age from his physical appearance. ///

Tan Kin Lian,

I am appalled and flabbergasted that you didn’t bother to read the whole news before you slag off others.

It is not just the photo that is at fault. You cannot produce one generation within a few years. He was using the lastest biometric passport. He tried using his thumb-print and failed many times. That should have alerted the officer who was there. Instead, the officer asked him to go for manual clearing. And the names of father and son are very different.

Kin Lian:

In the pre-911 days, I might have agreed with you. But nowadays we need to operate with higher security standards.

As you certainly know, for a passenger to get from the departure hall onto his plane seat, his travel documents need to be checked at least four times. Check-in counter; the entrance to passport checkpoint; the passport checkpoint itself; entrance to the waiting area for boarding etc.

The question then arises – how this man get through ALL these security checks??

This specific incident itself caused no harm, because the man was not a terrorist. But what if his experience is merely a sign, an indicator of how effective (or ineffective) our security measures really are?

I am much more inclined to agree with Wong Kan Seng than you, on this matter. It is definitely something to feel appalled and flabbergasted about. Of course, the other thing one might justifiably feel appalled about is that we have been getting a string of security lapses in the recent months, all of which MHA is responsible for.

I recall that changing of passport is NOT free and the photo has to be meet their specification. These changes are for the convience for operation team to ease their job and better security for Singapore. Year 2008 tell us to open the eye big and observe carefully.

[...] Appalled and Flabbergasted – TOC: Responsibility, responsibility, responsibility! – Sgpolitics: A litany of security lapses by the Ministry of Home Affairs – Mr Wang Says So: Wong Kan Seng’s Latest Career Achievement – Views of a tiny being on global throes: Singapore’s Security Makes News Again! – My Singapore News: Blame it on the fengshui – TOC: Security lapse at Changi airport – DPM Wong’s statement [...]

Blame blame go away, come again another day. Little people want to play, outsiders pay and pay, BIGGER PEOPLE GOT BIGGER and BIGGER PAY !!!

Mr. Tan,

Well..so much is given…so much is expected. If you are the minister in charge..what will you do ?

‘T ‘ is spot on. The immigration officer should have been circumspect when the gentleman failed the thumb print scan several times. The photo identification is less reliable.

Kin Lian should get the facts right before making unflattering comments on fellow netizens.

The entire fiasco could be viewed as a stress test, inadvertently performed by the gentleman in question. With so many incidents over a short period, the general public have every right to question WKS and his MHA.

The general public are really tired of hearing from our ministers to “move on ” , “focus on more important issues,” whenever there is a fiasco.

Notice that they have refrained from making this statement.

Parroting a similar and overused statement is a lack of situation awareness.

Being trained to be sharp is a hallmark of success. Having loopholes as in the Changi T4 episode is not much different from making comments without facts. Be sharper man before U write. We are all commoners now.

Mas Selamat might have escaped thru this loophole. Imagine, Took Leng How, the killer of Huang Na, just walked across the causeway, without carrying any passport . What is the use of taking thumb prints at the causeway, jamming the traffic daily. The terrorists won’t strike at this time. They will strike when you are not alert !!

A lot of hot air. Someone oughta be sacked, and I don’t mean the small fry.

Who is this Tan Kin Lian? If you cant get the facts right, just shut up la.

Well, I don’t know about 350k per day. But Changi airport alone processes 100k passengers a day, 3 million passengers a month and over 30 million passengers a year…

http://www.changiairport.com/changi/en/about_us/fact_sheets/air_traffic_statistics/2008/?__locale=en

I think the gist of what Mr Tan has said makes sense.

Best Regards

“I think the gist of what Mr Tan has said makes sense.”

Just one mistake, whether it’s one of ten, of just one of one trillion, can be fatal.

And that one security could be mean anyone of us in the harm’s way.

If lim takes things so lightly, i suggest he go somewhere else to propagate his insensitive views. This is a serious matter concerning airport security.

Try putting forth your theory of probability to the loved ones of those who perished in the Sept. 11 attacks if you think i am wrong about you. I am sure you will get answer as to how acceptable your opinion will be from their reactions.

It is amusing to me that the poor fella who got his passport mixed up has now been classified the equivalent of a terrorist by some people on this forum and regarded as poised to commit some atrocity in this world.

Firstly, what none of you (whether purposely or not), have highlighted, is that this Singaporean was EXITING singapore, not entering.

Sure, Singapore should have done its overall greater civic duty to the other countries but that’s not the same. America could not blame the arabic countries for letting its citizens leave their respective countries. If a terrorist enters Singapore from Malaysia, Malaysia’s not going to be responsible for our security either (although we may curse and swear at them). And we all know how lax Malaysia is in respect of people leaving their country to enter Singapore. Even passport also can forget to stamp.

More importantly, I think some people have the impression that our immigration system or any for that fact can prevent 9/11 incidents. That’s unrealistic. An immigration officer cannot pick up those who do not have a record or have not been tagged as a surveillance target.

I do see some bright spots from this. The immigration officers at our checkpoints will be more alert.

“Let us accept mistakes as they occur and do not try to exaggerate their impact. We are not a perfect society. Let us focus on the more important things in life.”

This is what i called real complacency.

At the same time, I think it is quite unfair to pin the blame (and there is some) SOLELY on immigration or a govt department (but it is clear why some people do it).

According to procedure, airlines are supposed to check names to tickets. In this case, the airline concerned didn’t.

Ironically, in every flight I’ve taken, this procedure has been performed. Maybe I’ve got a more suspicious face ::-p

lim,

“Firstly, what none of you (whether purposely or not), have highlighted, is that this Singaporean was EXITING singapore, not entering.”

So you mean departing flights out of Singapore cannot be used to cause harm? If security officers think like you, we are done in.

Brilliant piece, lim.

“It is amusing to me that the poor fella who got his passport mixed up has now been classified the equivalent of a terrorist by some people on this forum and regarded as poised to commit some atrocity in this world.”

So you mean we can afford to take chances? Wow, thanks.

“At the same time, I think it is quite unfair to pin the blame (and there is some) SOLELY on immigration or a govt department (but it is clear why some people do it).”

When you are served a lousy-tasting dinner at a restaurant, i think you will blame the waitress. As a logical person, i will blame the chef.

I’m not sure whether you get my previous post so I put it in simple English for you.

If I’m an intended terrorist, I can use my own passport to exit the country and still takeover a plane. I don’t need to use a fake passport if I’m going to crash it into Singapore. I must be dumb to use a fake passport and get stopped at immigration isn’t it?

All the immigration officers in this world can’t stop a legal person from leaving Singapore.

Since 9/11, the RSAF has also standby fighters and SAM missiles on constant alert duty. Its hail mary to anyone who tries.

“If I’m an intended terrorist, I can use my own passport to exit the country and still takeover a plane. I don’t need to use a fake passport if I’m going to crash it into Singapore. I must be dumb to use a fake passport and get stopped at immigration isn’t it?

All the immigration officers in this world can’t stop a legal person from leaving Singapore.

Since 9/11, the RSAF has also standby fighters and SAM missiles on constant alert duty. Its hail mary to anyone who tries.”

All this is written on the basis that a terrorist is a rational being. But would even a rational being become a terrorist in the first place?

Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions…

“So you mean we can afford to take chances? Wow, thanks.”

Nope, that’s your view not mine. I don’t think anyone including the lowly immigration officer wanted to take this chance. The point is that it has happened. We can cry over spilt milk or we can raise our awareness.

“Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions…”

lol. It happened in 9/11. It happened in the case of the Pakistanis taking over the SIA plane. In fact, I’ve never heard of any terrorist using a fake passport before.

“When you are served a lousy-tasting dinner at a restaurant, i think you will blame the waitress. As a logical person, i will blame the chef.”

Actually, I don’t actually blame anyone. I just don’t go back to the restaurant. Some people prefer to make suggestions on how to improve. Others just play the blame game.

It is clear to me which one are you.

“In fact, I’ve never heard of any terrorist using a fake passport before.”

As a matter of fact, the world has never heard of crashing planes into skyscrapers too before Sept. 11 2001. Nobody has ever heard of terrorist taking control of an aircraft by just using box-cutter knives too before 911.

Yup. No one has heard of crashing planes. But a terrorist to risk using a fake passport when a real one works is not a question of difference but a question of intelligence.

On the bright side, I would say you definitely aren’t a terrorist.

“Actually, I don’t actually blame anyone.”

Before this, lim said,

“According to procedure, airlines are supposed to check names to tickets. In this case, the airline concerned didn’t.”

Reconcile with your contradicting words first, lim. :)

Uh, I don’t blame the airlines. I just highlighted a flaw in their systems.

Actually from your writing, I guess you are fka lim peh fka anonymous. I think this is going to end up in the usual insults wrt me. So I’ll sign off.

Thanks & have a nice day.

“But a terrorist to risk using a fake passport when a real one works is not a question of difference but a question of intelligence”

In other words, we shouldn’t be bothered about people leaving Singapore using fake passports? Hmm..

If intelligence agencies has been tracking a terrorist, it does make sense to use a fake passport using a fake identity, isn’t it?

All the talk about intelligence.

“On the bright side, I would say you definitely aren’t a terrorist.”

I recall alerting the bus captain about a mysterious crate on the bus but fortunately it happened to be just trash.

On the bright side, at least i am an alert ordinary citizen not taking chances :)

My posts are now subject to moderation, so I can’t respond to any of the posts. Best Regards…

“I just don’t go back to the restaurant”

I am aware of my rights as a customer to ask for a change of the item being served. But i guess some are just satisfied to keep mum and continue to stomach the lousy-tasting dinner despite paying a hefty sum for the restaurant food.

But it’s really a matter of choice.

Striving to acquire a very secure exit system serves a purpose that some may not appreciate. The same applies for the entry system.

A terrorist or criminal whose identity has been exposed, and is being hunted down, will not be using his own passport to get away. Obviously the wanted terrorist/criminal will attempt to use another person’s passport to exit. Mas Selamat may have got away in this manner. So don’t jump the gun until he is caught and he tells us so.

The biometric system allows a person to exit without being screened personally by the immigration officer. The thumb print scan verifies the person is the true owner of the passport. The immigration officer made a very serious error with the gentleman involved in the fiasco without conducting a more thorough check on him after he failed the thumb print scan several times.

Any person who has ample experience in security matters, will verify that the criminals and terrorists are constantly watching and testing the security systems, irrespective of the country. Where/how to get in and where/how to get out, where are the weak links in terms of human surveillance, etc.

The last thing we need is to be complacent when dealing with people who are complacent. WKS himself is starting to agree with many of us, although too late for his own good.

If you ask me, we seem to have forgotten one pertinent point – the poor ICA officer just doing his job to let the fellow go through. My father got it once before, and the officer told him his passport old, so thumb-print cannot read properly. So I think the problem is quite common and he probably try to be helpful and manually clear him fast. My question is how can the person at the ticketing counter fail to verify the passport and the person before she issue the boarding pass? Budget airline budget service is it?

Some people start to dig history of past glitches. Face it, no security system is free from glitches and screw-ups. And have you seen the traffic at Woodlands, sure cock-up here and there one. Problem is the Government has been blowing their trumpet all this while, that after one serious MSK escape, everything little incident now come under the limelight. They got themselves to blame now, coupled with the high pay they are receiving.

Met up with a few of my platoon mates from Police last night and was discussing these. Some went back reservist so got stories to tell. I think people find Police easy target of criticism, but I can assure you we work like shit. Remember the SC who open the cell door that let loose the two fella from SubCourt? Heard he got whacked on head and almost killed by the escapee, but he still stood up and chase the chap. Why nobody give him credit for that?

People easily criticize Police, say this and that, but they forget that their father has not been killed in accidentally on purpose by Secret Society, their mothers and sisters not raped if they turn into a wrong alley, their uncles and auntie not bombed to pieces at shopping centers. There’s a real world out there – and it’s damn easy for people to sit on the couch and bitch. Try going New York where Police sirens are heard every 5 minutes and every dark corner you accidentally turn into give you a 90% chance of getting mugged, wallop or raped.

People like us patrol and work hell shifts to keep a bunch of whiners safe. Cut the officers some slack.

Why don’t you all tell me one place in this world where there are no such screw-ups, crime and glitches. Don’t mind going there to do my reservist, instead of risk meeting a knife wielding punk whom I have to risk shooting. Why? Because when I shoot, people ask me why I never use taser. If I don’t shoot and people get injured, I am asked why I didn’t shoot. It’s a hard world to please.

Jer

Jer,

It’s not that we are saying that policemen and security personnel are perfect beings, that’s unrealistic.

However, just as you want other citizens to empathize with you guys, you may want to put yourself in the citizens’ shoes.

First it was MSK. Now there is this incident at the Airport.

I can tell you my own experience at the Airport.

When i arrived back home, i normally use the automatic gentry which is faster with just a scan of my Singapore passport.

However there was a long queue of Chinese tourists who were trying to use this gentry which are only meant for Singapore passport holders. It’s no surprise that they jam up the gentry since they could never not pass through with their Chinese passports for a gentry meant for Singaporeans only.

Yet there were so many custom officers there. In fact one was just 3m away from the scene. NONE OF THEM DID ANYTHING TO RECTIFY THE PROBLEM.

We understand the stress of security personnel. But do you think A STRING OF LAPSES are acceptable to ordinary citizens who were told umpteen times that we have a first class system in place.

We understand nothing is perfect. But some have to drop slogans like “world-class” and endless pay-raises, especially for those at the top.

Lesson is: Don’t raise expectations like “world-class”, “first-world” unnecessarily in the first place since nothing can be perfect. If you sell yourself to be unparalleled in performance, you jolly well be. Otherwise when something crops up, the reaction would not be very pleasant and you can’t complain about that.

Actually lim, not a fan of lim, jer, and many of the blog commenters just want a better Singapore.

No one is blaming the police. No one is saying there cannot be a mistake. No one is perfect.

However when one’s ministry makes too often a similar mistake, something isn’t right. I am a strong advocate for a shadow opposition minister. But too bad, we don’t have a two party system. And the opposition has been crippled in Sg. So there aren’t any checks.

The main reason companies have external audits is to prevent internal cover-ups and have transparencies. Likewise for any democratic government. No checks will usually lead to complacency and uncreative policies and unproductivity.

Another good example is the pressure to ‘fire’ Belinda Neal for her outburst at the restaurant. Well, no one actually knows what happened, and it could be either party’s fault. Whatever the case, her attitude has caused mounting pressure for her step-down. I’m sure it’s a matter of time.

“The nightclub incident has dominated NSW state politics for a week with calls for Mr Della Bosca to be sacked but has now been catapulted on to the federal stage.

Opposition Leader Brendan Nelson said Ms Neal and Mr Della Bosca were an embarrassment to the Labor Party.
”

Even the PM had openly declared her that she will be dumped unless she learn to manage her anger.

Isn’t it funny? It’s just a personal character issue, and that calls for a step-down? I mean it’s just a bloody waiter! Who is he anyway?

Now you see what I mean? It’s hard for elites to cover up when you have shadow ministers and 2-party system.

It’s not the pay. It’s the in-place checks that are required. And not by your own party members.

Kaffein

“If you ask me, we seem to have forgotten one pertinent point – the poor ICA officer just doing his job to let the fellow go through. My father got it once before, and the officer told him his passport old, so thumb-print cannot read properly. So I think the problem is quite common and he probably try to be helpful and manually clear him fast. My question is how can the person at the ticketing counter fail to verify the passport and the person before she issue the boarding pass? Budget airline budget service is it?”

That’s putting the cart before the horse.

Blaming the ticketing counter does not absolve the failure of the ICA.

Who is the passport issuing authority here? ICA or the airline company?

If your answer is the ICA, i think you should realize where the buck stops.

to: not a fan of lim

you are just too biased. come on, it’s just one mistake. Nobody’s perfect. You could very well have been the person to make that mistake too. You should not keep harping on one problem.

Let’s say you are at your workplace , and you make a calculation mistake. No real harm came out of that? Does your employer keep going back to that mistake or just try to move on? Furthermore, if you were an accountant, and you made a mistake, do we really blame the supervisor for it? That doesn’t make sense does it??

to: not a fan of lim

furthermore, can you remember that incident about the women and her child at Changi Airport who said “bomb”. Is that the kind of thoroughness you expect the Airport Staff to hold? That we treat every single person as a potential terrorist until proven that they are not a terrorist??

westin

>>
you are just too biased. come on, it’s just one mistake. Nobody’s perfect. You could very well have been the person to make that mistake too. You should not keep harping on one problem.
>>

God forbids, what if the mistake leads to a fatal mistake? Would you be telling those harmed to “stop harping on this one mistake”?

On the contrary, if it has been shown that proper procedure has been followed and mishaps still happened, then we ought o be fair to those on the ground.

However, it seems that in this case, it cannot be refuted that the person did not check properly. A simple check on his NRIC number would just be able to do that. Did the officer even look at the photo properly? Even just a glance at the person and then the passport photo is that difficult?

Your argument that “you could be the one making the mistake” is very shaky. Suppose your doctor misdiagnosed your illness and performed an unnecessary operation on you, do you tell yourself that it is ok because “i could be the one making the same mistake” too? If your answer is yes, then i take my hat off to you.
Your point is properly a indiscriminate defence for every sort of failure. If that’s a valid line of defence, no one would ever be held responsible for any sort of negligence in anyway. If the line “you could be the one making the same mistake too” is valid in every instance and every case, then i think the law of tort would have to be rewritten.

Instead, we got to ask ourselves: Is this a human error or systemic failure?
Depending on the type of mistake, we will hold different people responsible and address the problem. If someone is found negligent, resignation may be unavoidable.

westin

>>
furthermore, can you remember that incident about the women and her child at Changi Airport who said “bomb”.
>>

I think there is a proper procedure to follow to deal with the situation. Is is just a hoax or a real threat? Normally, there is a procedure to follow to see if this is a real threat. By the way, Singapore law has very heavy penalties on bomb hoaxes.

Why not answer the top brass in charge what would they do in this situation instead? After all, they are paid and i am not :)

Westin

>>
Let’s say you are at your workplace , and you make a calculation mistake. No real harm came out of that?
>>

Let’s say a bus driver has speeding over the speed limit. You still arrive at your destination safe and sound despite his speed violation. No real harm came out of that right? But does it made his speeding justifiable? I leave it for you to decide.

westin

>>
Furthermore, if you were an accountant, and you made a mistake, do we really blame the supervisor for it?
>>

Depends on the seriousness of the actual/potential consequences. If my mistake leads to/or potentially leads to heavy losses for the company, i have no doubts that me and my supervisor may have to go.

Here, we are taking about security. I will leave you to decide on the seriousness of the possible consequences.

westin,

One mistake is good enough to kill it does’t take 10. Take for example. If you are on a surgical table and the major doctor who has 40 years of surgical experience after finishing your operation said he is appalled at his junior doc for leaving a “tiny” scissor in your operated stomach and need to re-op again. How would that feel? When officers are trusted with responsibilities at the front line it is their duty of the day that counts. Not the 40 years of keeping us safe that counts. Everyday is a day itself. The reason why the complacency takes centre stage because for 40 years there is no major crisis in Singapore. Like 911, the MHA didn’t act only after the event happened. Any delay would have resulted in deaths. GOD was merciful to Singapore. It is no credit to MHA alone, our citizens also play a part as always when one limping terrorist escaped from toilet, whole nation is mobilize to find him. Give credit when it is due, but ask for accountability when it is due too.

FG

westin,

Just to add on. Hey, we have a WORLD CLASS MINISTER getting a WORLD CLASS PAY. I must see a WORLD CLASS RESULT. I think Is this the a world class result? You know, if you dare to take so much money, and still have the cheek to say it is just a small mistake, there must be some problem with your personality.

Actually, it’s not the first time there’s such a lapse. This happened to my acquaintances before but it’s not reported because there wasn’t a whistle-blower. They are from Malaysia. The Malaysian immigration doesn’t check the passports of Malaysians hence the issue did not surface, whereas in this incident, the Vietnamese immigration caught the error.

This is not a sudden lapse but just a case of things going wrong and being found out.

Very simple one lah.
1) If your head is not big enough to wear the big hat, don’t.
2) Don’t claim you have such a big head.

Now after claiming you have such a big head and failed trying to wear the big hat, what will you do?
1. Stop wearing the big hat?
2. Die die hold on to the big hat but look for excuses?

I know the PAP govt and their type will do the latter. LOL

Singaporeans work because they love their jobs? Loyal to their country, love their countrymen(especially parliamentarian, armed forces, law enforcements and security personnels)? I think the Answer is a sure NO. But work for the money must surely be the reason, otherwise, parliamentarians will not claimed that corruptions will happened if they are not well remunerated. And they also claimed that it will also be unattractive to be one.

When the top dogs are paid multi-millionSIN Dollars, work for money, the security and law enforcers who are paid $900 to $2000(basic monthly average pay) to work at the frontlines of fires, how dedicated will they be? They too will also be working just for the miserly pays, will they be foolish to seriously discharge their duties to enforce the Laws and Regulations and get themselves stuck with investigations and procedurals with no overtime payments and having to stand as arresting officers and witnesses? Hence, work smart and not work hard is the motto prevailing right from the bottom to the top.

To say that a systemic failure exist is surely an understatement, the System is sick at its’ core because the hardest works get the lowest returns. The risks of dangers and overtime duties without pays simply do no justice. What with many of our enforcers comprised of foreigner workers, almost all are here because of our SIN Dollars. Will these people risk their live to protect a foreign sovereign? They surely will think that they are stupid if they do so. I would think so myself.

Hey! the more we think about it, the more hopeless we will feel!

patriot.

Patriot,

if you system were a failure, why are we the second most developed country in Asia? Why is that given our geographic position, our GDP, and most other indicators of development are much higher than the rest of the region?

This can only be attributed to the excellent leadership that our government has provided for these past 40 years… without them, disaster awaits.

Singaporeans don’t know what is good for them… they complain about everything… NS, FT, million dollar salary, erp… complain complain complain. but never do anything….

complain so much fer what? not happy just leave lor~~ i mean some people think we now have a “systemic failure” because of some random security lapse. So migrate la, dun even need your real passport now leh.

westin,

precisely of your kind of people around that ordinary peasants like us get screwed and exploited by the PAP.

who are you to tell us borned Singaporean to get out of the country?

sick and tired of your kind ball-carrying pappy supporters who can’t convince people with reasons in a debate, started to spew nonsense and tell people ‘not happy, leave!’

Singapore belongs to ALL Singaporeans, not just you and your master PAP.

Debate…. by all means, Argue….. by all means, Convince….. by all means, but never ever used the ‘get out of Singapore’ statement as a concluding victory for yourself.

btw, my citizenship stated as Singaporean, what’s yours? PAPPY?

everyone commented in this thread I believed are Singaporeans and that make them Pro Singapore, be their comments negative or positive to the PAP government.

westin, remember….. we are Singaporeans and Pro Singapore when talking about the good, bad and ugly of this PAP government today.

you may tell me you are Pro Singapore too, I believe you, but don’t tell others that they are less Singaporean and thus should leave this country if they are not happy.

So long as work is done by human being, there is that element of potential lapses. Just like machinery, it is bound to malfunction from time to time. Except that in important installations, the employed must be extra vigilant. Hence, the recruting managers must ensure that the right candidates are chosen for the right jobs; not just the perceived cheap and good ones. Continuing refreshing education of responsibiities is necessary by the employers for important positions, and not expect employees to do upgrading (esp those lower income ones already struggling with long hrs) using their own resources. It is the responsibility of everyone to work to ensure that lapses are kept low.

“if you system were a failure, why are we the second most developed country in Asia? Why is that given our geographic position, our GDP, and most other indicators of development are much higher than the rest of the region?”

Go and read the “Singapore Miracle” book , can be found in Borders . If this book is bullshit, let LKY and the coffers sue it to no end. The fact that this book quote extensively from the MSM and ministers means that this book hold truth and critically analyse why we are ‘perceived to be successful’ and refute the fallacy that everything own to PAP. But be reminded that this book is a brutal truth to PAPpy Supporter. Read it before the government banned it.

Westin;
thank You for the interaction.

If it was not the geographic position of Singapore which got Raffles attracted to developed into thriving International Seaport it is all these hundreds over years, I think a hundred Lee Kuan Yews will not be able to change anything here.

But, because of one Lee Kuan, the Fate and Destiny of this tiny land is showing and it seems reaching. Indeed your advice to pack and go is very sound for most Singaporeans and could be considered one of the most pragmatic option.

And, there are citizens who will stick with their ‘mother land’ comes what may and there are yet others, who will struggle for justices, to each his own. Wish You enjoy a happy life here.

patriot.

Dear Westin and Patriot,

Pack and go where ? Go west – you are 2nd class? Go East – you are despised ?
The ugly Singaporean image from top down is well reported in Asia.
Go and it may be good ridden for you – foreign parent babies are making their impact here already.
Fight to change the mindsets of the Govt – for a better deal for all Singaporeans – it will be very sad indeed when common Singaporeans are relegated to 2nd class in their own country.
Start by supporting the TOC; the present opposition is disappointing so far, what else? Do not go away and let foreigners take your rightful place; FT are already beginning to like this place so much that their numbers are swelling , soon to be in millions. Do not give up. This is your home.

To lim on June 24th, 2008 12.04 pm, and TheOwl,

wanted to carry on the conversation you had about rotation of personnel at the top.

i think it was Cherian George who wrote about Singapore’s model of rotating 2nd-tier leaders (minister of state, deputy ministers, etc) and its impact on the government, in his book, “Singapore – The Air Conditioned Nation”. What he wrote echoed the thoughts of my company’s global CEO.

My CEO dont believe in putting 3-year contracts, or rotating leadership within the organisation. He felt that it will lead to – the first year, the leader will just be doing a handover, second year of keeping “the lights on”, and third year, the process of handing over to the next person.

it will lead to, according to him, complacency and maintaining status quo. There will be no sense of ownership, responsibility and wanting to change things for the better. Senior execs must be given a permanent post, they must lead, given ownership, and a set objective of achieving improvement.

This is where i think our system failed. the various dept heads in MHA tend to be anonymous. much lower ranks are not empowered to make decisions. They just do what they’re told – and wont go beyond what is expected of them. Decision making is always pushed up. No reward system – but there is a drastic punishment system.

This is the root of all these issues. If the public calls for WKS to resign, there shouldnt be any surprises. Because he has structured his Ministry to be like the way it is. He didnt motivate his people to be highly responsible and having ownership of their departments.

I guess it leads back to complacency – and very clearly – complacency on WKS part, and the whole rank and file of leaders under him.

not a fan of lim,

I read all that with the analogies, the logic, the stuff and ya da. I like the idea that all it takes is just one incident, but there are lots of cases that go through the net that no one is aware of.

What do we do about them, should we hold someone accountable for these? How systemic are systemic faults? For someone that gets caught trying to smuggle himself or herself in, there might be others that didn’t get caught.

Not suggesting that the someone shouldn’t take responsbility, but I like to know your stand or opinion on WKS or whatever because I didnt seem to see so in the few posts

@ aygee, Every CEO has a certain style of doing things, and it also depends on the nature of the job.

The purpose of a contract , example 3 to 5 years, is actually a probation in the long term sense, for the CEO to evaluate a person’s performance. It is also a “means” to terminate or move the person to another department because the CEO has another person in mind who is only available at a later date. The CEO in the mean time has to make do with the best that the company can hire.

The potential of any company is generally decided by the type of people it hires. Talented people will be selective of the company they intend to work in. It is important to have real talent at the helm to attract talent.

Otherwise, any amount of job rotation will not have a positive impact because there was a lack of talent in the first place.

Singapore is run like a business and the objective is profits. The people have to accept full responsibility for giving this government the mandate for 40+ years.

The people have to ask themselves, is WKS competent in the first place ? even though we know he is complacent. Are there other incompetent ministers like WKS ?

I believe there are many senoir staff in the different ministries who have been bypassed for promotion over the years. How did people like Ng Eng Hen, Vivian B, Raymond Lim, Lim Swee Say, etc,etc, get selected over those very senoir staff ? Surely there has to be a psychological impact on them and the rest of the organization. I see this problem in my company when several dubious talents parachute-in and assume control.

Can we actually believe that Hen, a cardio specialist all his life and probably managing less than 10 staff , can be talent spotted to take charge of the MOM with hundred thousands of jobs at stake. In the first place , many of us have not heard of him, even when he was a cardio specialist. What about Vivian B ? An eye specialist. How many of you actually know who he was before his engagement in politics ? I will leave it to other netizens to carry on with the other so called ‘talent’ in this government.

Do you see anyone with inspiring leadership qualities ? Or did I miss something ?

Who does the PM have to answer to..the people or his own

This is what happens when you didn’t punish the right people for the earlier security lapse!!!

I just see a lot of oratorical hot air. So this is the type of million dollar minister we have, his job entails telling people what they already know? Impressive. So we want to peg pay practices to the industry huh? Where is the pay cut for screwing up big time numerous times?!

[...] Singapore’s Security Makes News Again! – My Singapore News: Blame it on the fengshui – TOC: Security lapse at Changi airport – DPM Wong’s statement – Gerald Giam @ Singapore Patriot: Passport blunder: It’s Singaporeans who are negligent – [...]

This third irresponsible slip-shot within 4 months speaks loud and clear of PM Lee’s defence for WKS in the parliament. From then on, all ministers need not be held responsible for anything that goes wrong within the purview and responsibility of their ministries.

Easy pay and easy job. How wonderful!

More irresponsible acts will be in the making. Just watch and see.

I urged people here to read the book “The Speed of Trust” by Stephen Covey Jr.

Credibility, competency go hand in hand to make you trust worthy. The leadership must show its determination and desire to uphold its highest standard. Any respectable leader who fails will own it up instead of shifting blame. Not to say that there were at least 8 reported failures (by Copyman June 24):

2004 – Huang Na’s killer escaped on toilet break under police custody.
2006 – Tan Chor Jin (One-Eyed Dragon) escaped to Malaysia, allegedly on a fake passport.
2006 – NKF Richard Yong managed to flee to Hong Kong.
2008 – Mas Selamat Kastari – toilet break again.
2008 – Two detainees’ attempted escape frorm Subordinate Court.
2008 – Ng Ting Hwa, the employee who siphoned almost S$2m from his company, fled to Malaysia when he’s under investigation.
2008 – Gurkhas’ scuffle over salary.
2008 – A retiree unintentionally bypassed Changi Airport’s security using his son’s passport.

Singaporeans opened their mouths ‘wa’ ‘oops’ on every such occasion but after a while, fall back to inertai and silence. And we vote or’ forced to vote via walk-over’ for another term by the same team. My lament: when do we actually learn from our own mistakes of inertia, non-involvement and keeping muted; leaving status-quo.

It is actually our own mistake and responsibilities.