Andrew Loh
Ministers scheduled to be given a third pay hike this year
If you ask me, the future is really shining for us… We will survive; this is a red dot, which we can make redder and brighter. (MM Lee, 2006)
We are into a period of good economic growth and social development… If there are no wars or oil crises, this golden period can stretch out over many years… (Singapore in a golden period, says MM Lee, 2007),
Mdm Soh (not her real name) is more than 70 years old and has been working as an office cleaner for more than a year. Her daily routine starts at 7am and ends at 5pm, which means she puts in 10 hours of work, including a one hour lunch break. She works five and a half days per week – 55 hours in all.
She is paid $650 per month.
$2.95 per hour.
In January 2008, the Minister for Health, in advocating for the implementation of means testing starting at the median income, cited the figure of $2,170 for full-time employed residents. Mdm Soh clearly is not in this income bracket, even though she works full time.
Mdm Soh says that she started work when she was 10 years old, doing various jobs over the years. Although she finds life tough with the current rate of record inflation, she declines help from her children. “They also have their families,” she says. “I’ll just make do with what I have. I don’t go out except for work and maybe once in a while I buy a little 4D”, she says in Teochew, referring to the lottery. She quickly adds that she spends “at the most just one dollar’s worth” on the lottery.
The elites – a third pay hike
At the other end of the spectrum, top Government ministers had their salaries increased twice in 2007, the second one in December of that year. According to a Straits Times report:
Under the revised salary package announced by the Public Service Division (PSD) on Thursday, ministers at the starting grade will take home $1.94 million next year – an increase of 21 per cent over this year’s $1.6 million.
Also in the same report:
With the pay revision, the annual salary for President SR Nathan will go up from $3.1 million this year to $3.87 million in 2008, the Prime Minister’s from $3.09 million to $3.76 million, ministers and senior permanent secretaries, from $1.593 million to $1.94 million, entry superscale grade Admin officers, from $384,000 to $398,000 and MPs, from $216,300 to $225,000.
The Prime Minister’s salary was increased by $670,000 per year. That is about $55,833 per month. The PM’s salary is currently $3.76m per year ($313,333 per month).
According to the Reuters news report, “Singapore’s economic boom widens income gap” (9 November, 2007):
“The proportion of Singapore residents earning less than S$1,000 (US$690) a month rose to 18 percent last year, from 16 percent in 2002, central bank data released late last month show… and Singapore’s Gini coefficient, a measure of income inequality, has worsened from 42.5 in 1998 to 47.2 in 2006, and is now in league with the Philippines (46.1) and Guatemala (48.3), and worse than China (44.7), data from Singapore’s Household Survey and the World Bank show”.
The Government is expected to announce a third salary increase for civil servants, including ministers, later this year, as part of a three-step effort to close the gap in the benchmark for ministers’ salaries. This was explained by Minister in Charge of the Civil Service, Teo Chee Hean, on the 9th of April, 2007:
Salaries at the MR4 Grade are currently at 55% of the benchmark. Given the large gap, it is not realistic to close the gap fully in one go. Instead, we will close half of the current gap, that is, from 55% of the benchmark, to 77% of the benchmark by the end of this year.
This will be effected in two steps – one step now, and another step at the end of this year. Next year, we aim to close half of the remaining gap, bringing salaries to 88% of the benchmark by end-2008.
(Sprinter)
What is the Government doing about the income gap for ordinary Singaporeans, especially the poor? It prefers to take a “targeted approach”, giving periodic handouts and assistance and schemes like the Workfare Income Supplement (WIS). The Government has dismissed suggestions for the institution of a minimum wage and has also regularly warned that “subsidies will not solve Singapore’s problems”. (Lee Kuan Yew)
Give our elderly a sense of peace and security
Yet, with the anticipated third increase in ministers’ salaries, which is already the highest in the world, Singaporeans are beginning to wonder if only the top few are reaping the rewards of the hard work which everyone had put in during the boom times.
As was asked in an earlier article on TOC, “Why have Singaporeans, with one of the highest savings rates in the world, become so dependent on government handouts to even just get by?” With regards to the latest handout as reported by Channel NewsAsia, Over 780,000 households to receive $134m of utility rebates, one wonders why such a huge number of Singaporean households need such handouts to pay their utilities.
Have Singaporeans, consistently ranked one of the hardest-working and overworked, suddenly become beggars with hands extended towards the Government all the time, even as they continue to strive and compete with foreigners?
Perhaps it is time to seriously consider a more institutionalised approach to closing the income gap, such as having a minimum wage policy, and give Singaporeans, especially the working elderly such as Mdm Soh, a sense of security and peace in their twilight years. This is more pertinent now as the Government is also encouraging Singaporeans to work for as long as one can. Minister Lim Boon Heng even urged Singaporeans not to think of retiring (Channel NewsAsia).
To have someone like Mdm Soh work for $2.95 an hour is, in all honesty, quite shameful for a country which regularly trumpets its economic achievements. But more importantly, it says something about how we value those who have given practically their entire lives helping Singapore become this “world-class” city which the Government now boasts about.
While chatting with Mdm Soh, she was very anxious not to be seen talking to me too long. “I have to get back to work, or else my boss will be looking for me”, she would periodically say. I could not help but wonder: Are our elderly so frightened of not being able to find jobs that they would accept any jobs offered to them, even if they do not pay them fairly?
As former NTUC Income CEO Tan Kin Lian said here:
I believe that local workers deserve to have an adequate salary for a hard day’s work. This salary has to be commensurate with the cost of living. It should be adequate for a worker to feed a family, at least in a frugal way. The worker should not be expected to work for 12 hours a day, and still not earn enough for the family.
Indeed, our elderly who put in full-time work should not be struggling to keep up, or made to work for less than what would be minimum wage, all in the name of “globalisation” or “competition”.
Otherwise, ministers should be prepared for a severe backlash if and when they increase their own salaries later this year – the third time in two years – by millions of dollars again.
It seems that this “golden era” which MM Lee declared we are in is only for a select group – and we also wonder whose future it is that is “really shining”.
Read also:
Uniquely Singapore – F1 or F9: Income statistics?
Elderly toilet cleaners a sad reflection of society here.
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Below is a recent letter which my colleague Leong Sze Hian sent to the Straits Times. It was published in the ST on June 25:
Retraining low-wage workers: Let’s be realistic
I REFER to the article, ‘Contract workers: Caught in the pay squeeze’ (June 8).
The Building Custodian Job Re-design Programme, an initiative supported by the Workforce Development Agency and National Trades Union Congress, seeks to enhance the skills of cleaners to value-add in work such as changing light bulbs, clearing blockages and ‘custodial checking’, such as sighting and reporting defects, pests and killer litter.
This job of building custodians or multi-skilled cleaners comes with a $1,000 starting wage, compared to a cleaner’s $700 to $800.
As I understand most cleaners are elderly with low education, how realistic is it to expect them to undergo re-training to expand job duties and responsibilities?
How many companies have sent cleaners on this re-training programme?
How many of the 37,000 contract cleaners have so far been sent for re-training?
As most cleaners are employed by contractors which have to bid for contracts at the lowest competitive price, how likely is it that one paying the lowest wage of $700 will pay the $1,775 course fee and allow time off for the 112-hour course?
With regard to the advisory to all companies and contractors on responsible outsourcing practices issued by the Ministry of Manpower in March, I have come across an elderly road sweeper, an 84-year-old Singaporean man who works 55 hours a week for $650 a month, and an elderly woman who works 24 hours a week as a housekeeper at a community club for just $300 plus a month – no wage increment, bonus and so on.
Government agencies, statutory boards, government-linked companies and so on should take note of the very low wages of workers on their premises, and try to influence their outsourced contractors to pay decent wages.
For example, they could follow the example of the PAP town councils, which have recommended a $1,000 starting wage for full-time workers and $500 for part-time workers, in new cleaning contracts since April.
Although no minimum wage is imposed, cleaning companies are required under the new contracts to send their workers to the National Skills Recognition System Clean Residential Estates course.
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Hahah… ok, you’ve found something which I don’t agree with — characterising HDB prices as being subsidies may be technically correct (the opportunity cost of land is taken into account) but I think that if we look at the actual construction and related costs, the subsidy is less substantial. I’ve not checked the figures out, and until I do, I don’t rant about it…
Dear Observer,
I think to summarise all the comments – both for and against an issue – is a huge task. I am not sure that we have the time to do so, to be honest. This article alone has more than 140 comments. :)
On the other point you brought up, you asked what I would recommend for helping the poor. For a start, I think we should seriously look into the issue of minimum wage. I am not advocating that we import wholesale what other countries are doing. But we should at least study it and see if we can implement this, with our own modifications.
Second, I would also look into the issue of an unemployment insurance for all singaporeans. The Workers’ Party brought this up in the 2006 elections and so far, as far as I know, the govt has not dismissed it.
I think these two issues are worth looking into – because I think periodic CPF top-ups and occasional handouts is not going to do much for the poor, especially.
We’ve often been told that Singaporeans can command a premium if we’re more educated, more skilled and so on. But in reality, this works for only a certain group of people – mostly the top-end people.
What about the lower end?
This is why i said in the article that we need a more institutionalised approach to helping the poor and less educated.
Dear Dr Syed Alwi,
I am finding the discussion increasingly repetitive. My point is very simple — have you or any of the naysayers here actually tried to analyse the figures before repeating the mantra that the data is not there? Listed companies have their balance sheets and PnL reported. Temasek and GIC have a significant (perhaps insufficient? I don’t know — it looks significant to me) amount of data on their websites. Have you studied those?
Once again, there is a risk in foreign investments, but a bigger risk in *not* making them. Think about it – shifts in foreign currencies mean that if Singapore only holds its reserves in SGD, but the country needs to remit out in other currencies, we are royally screwed if the currencies move against the SGD. Hedging with foreign investments and diversification seem to be the basic requirement for prudent financial management.
I don’t think I’m going to continue with this thread much longer. As I say, it is getting repetitive, and I think those who started with a negative attitude towards the Govt are simply not even processing or looking at the views put forth by more moderate commentators.
First – there is the sniping but lack of realistic alternatives;
Secondly – there is the repeating of mantras (“no transparency”) and no attempt to dig through the material that is publicly available.
All this points not to informed critique against the Govt of the day, but instead, a contrarian attitude. “Everything by the Establishment must be bad.” Like Jon Stewart — either political party in the US is fodder for comedy, just because it is his business to be funny and to lampoon the politicians, on either side of the aisle.
Well, I’ve had just about enough of comedy…
Good Grief
>>
Hahah… ok, you’ve found something which I don’t agree with — characterising HDB prices as being subsidies may be technically correct (the opportunity cost of land is taken into account) but I think that if we look at the actual construction and related costs, the subsidy is less substantial. I’ve not checked the figures out, and until I do, I don’t rant about it…
>>
Haha, if it is not a subsidized form of housing, why should the Govt even provide it in the first place?
After all, if you are so anti-handouts, you can tell HDB flat dwellers to ditch their crutch mentality and find their own housing out in the free market and subject themselves to the forces of the free market. Why not?
Good Grief,
Still no explanation on the powers of citizen shareholders. What are you waiting for given your vast knowledge?
Dear GoodGrief
Maybe its comedy to you – but lets see how funny it is at elections time !
I sure hope that the SDP and WP will take up these issues.
As for the GLC’s – the SWF’s are not sufficiently transparent – and thats a well known fact.
Good Grief
>>
Hahah… ok, you’ve found something which I don’t agree with — characterising HDB prices as being subsidies may be technically correct (the opportunity cost of land is taken into account) but I think that if we look at the actual construction and related costs, the subsidy is less substantial. I’ve not checked the figures out, and until I do, I don’t rant about it…
>>
If you surf the net, you should know that the interest on the HDB loan is much lower than those offered by commerical banks.
Thanks for reminding us that 80% of the population is in your so-called blackhole of subsidies and having a crutch mentality by leaving in HDB units.
>>
the subsidy is less substantial
>>
The point is: Isn’t it still a subsidy?
You call something a blackhole. You don’t something a “partial blackhole”. That resembles a clumsy logic known as Bushism.
Good Grief,
There is nothing on the websites of GIC etc that is transparent enough for the public to inspect. Here are sample answers, taken from the links you provided.
>>
Is GIC a private company or a government body?
GIC was established on 22 May 1981 as a private company under the Companies’ Act, wholly owned by the Government of Singapore. GIC reports to its own Board of Directors which provides overall guidance and direction. Although GIC is government-owned and manages government funds, the relationship between GIC and the government is that of a fund manager and a client. GIC operates, invests, measures its performance and rewards its employees no differently from a global fund management company.
>>
Yeah, GIC is a PRIVATE company. There you are! As a PRIVATE company, they are only accountable to the sharedholders. And who are these shareholders? The government, which is basically, PAP!
So the GIC is in NO WAY legally bound to tell the PUBLIC of what they do with their funds.
>>
Where does the money that GIC manages come from?
GIC does not own the funds it manages, but manages them on behalf of its clients, the Government of Singapore and the Monetary Authority of Singapore. The Ministry of Finance represents the Government in dealing with GIC.
>>
But…but….the money held by MAS and the government of Singapore is in TRUST, isn’t it? Hey, that includes our taxes, revenue and CPF, right?
So let’s get this thing clear.
The GIC uses OUR MONEY to invest, but is in NO WAY liable to report to the people.
As for how the funds are managed, where is the full balance sheet, profit and loss statement etc, that gives us the breakdown of how OUR MONEY is being managed?
Fight long, long ah – all you peasants won’t get to see it, ah! Even the late President OTC got problem digging, you think you peasants can get it, izzit?
Amanda and Good grief, GIC and what not putting up websites is not equivalent to “opening up the books”. Morally and ethically, since it is OUR MONEY, we have the right to question where every single dollar comes from and goes to.
However, GIC is structured such that they don’t even have to call you for an AGM.
To all the peasants out there, hard luck!
>>
I don’t think I’m going to continue with this thread much longer. As I say, it is getting repetitive, and I think those who started with a negative attitude towards the Govt are simply not even processing or looking at the views put forth by more moderate commentators.
>>
The use of “negative attitude” and giving oneself the credit of being a “moderate” are splendid examples of political mudslinging and smearing in its ugliest form.
It seems that all engagement with Amanda on Singapore political and social are futile and wasteful. She should have stated her stand in the first place least commenter waste time refuting her simplistic view. She just shoot herself in the foot.
“1) Does an ordinary folk have a million dollar pay to that? No, So trust the million dollar minister then.
2) Does an ordinary folk have the whole team of bureaucrats and technocrats to craft policies? No, therefore the minister probably has examined all options and has arrived at the best option for Singaporeans in general.
3) Does an ordinary folk have THE PRIVILEGE OF INFORMATION? To some extent, but certain things need not be declared in the interest of national interest. For example, Singapore need not disclose strategic investments. Nor does Singapore have to disclose the exact locations and contingency of the Singapore Military.”
So she just ask the people to trust the million-dollars highly corporatized-gahmen with blind trust even though LKY once says we live in a make-believe world.
She doesn’t really know what happen to Singapore on the ground, and yet can give her wonderful and at time convincing comment the way gahmen give in Ivory Tower. Did many agree the her view and thought is uncannily intuned with the gahmen ? Wonder if she used to be a Singapore scholar who feel indebt to the government and need to speak out for them to return for their ‘kindness’,
“amanda on June 29th, 2008 12.52 pm
sure, you are entitled you own opinion.
If you wish to attack personally, please go ahead. Words across cyberspace can’t hurt me.”
That is the kind of remark that a gahmen will give where they have nothing to reason about. A tactic to implant other that people are attacking her personally when people are merely engaging the discussion. Nowhere did I find people are attacking her personally, anyone agree ?
Notice too that she says the government give freebies ? Be real, the government takes first and just give back a tiny portion of freebies. Did amanda really know how the government system of taking large pie and giving small pielet here works ?
If amanda wish to compare with USA to where she is staying now in aspect where thing are not as good as Singapore, then by all means she can give feedback to USA and help to improve the system there. Don’t just simply bring those issues and disadvantages in other countries in Singapore and simpliy compare it one to one says that we are much matter happily. That kind of ‘simple’ argument is the same as what the gahmen in a certain ministry tell us all along “That we are much cheaper or better” in transport cost, education cost, and blah and blah which is only one-sided. Do consider issues on wider perspective.
We should strive to keep cost down as much as possible and not give ridiculous reason as the world is facing inflation, so the gahmen should respond to inflation by increasing price too, and just follow the world. Remember why can’t we be ‘uniquely Singapore’ when it comes to making life better for Singaporean and easing the burder ? and Yeah, stop taking the worse and fallacy case that government will make us a millionaire if they give help.
When it comes to dishing out help, the government will take a world-wide view. When it comes to helping themselves to millions and billions , suddenly the government will take a local view that they are special.
Why did not the government follow the world standard of giving pathetic salary in tune with great country like USA give to president Bush, president of China then ? These leaders in other countries handle greater affair and responsibility over their large country and yet their salaries are just a fraction compare to gahmen here. That is the reason we should not give blind trust to the government because they no longer deliver anything but seem to reap more money from the citizen.
Instead of treating citizen well, their strategy is to invest in hardware more than software, making image of Singapore look beautiful and attractive. But really, when foreigner come here, all they find is one souless and pragmatic society live on a WonderLand that can hardly call a home.
The use of phrases like “negative attitude” is mudslinging? That is hilarious. As compared to making snide comments and guesses about Amanda’s motivations for working in the US?
OK, that’s it. If that’s the level and quality of discussion, I’m not going to waste my time carrying this further. Yes, GIC is a private company, yes, there are reports on its returns – no one has been able to say that they have even tried to study and analyse the figures.
Not happy with GIC and Temasek transparency, make it an election issue. But I think if that is done, whoever raises it will be embarrassed because there is, to my eye, a fair bit of information out there already. In fact, so much that some other responder said earlier today, “too much, just give us bottom line” whereas others say “I want more details”. There is a fair bit already — why not digest it and figure out what specific misgivings or concerns you have?
I’ll pop in to look at this thread now and then but if it doesn’t elevate itself from repetitive calls for handouts, or grumbles against lack of transparency without even making use of the information that is out there… then its just being contrary for the sake of being contrary.
Problem with specific sectors on the MRT? Yeah, sure, but my challenge was to ask if there was any improvement that was not being embarked upon for lack of funds…
I follow on Solo Bear’s post to extrapolate but not to implicate or insinuate IMHO:-
I conclude that therefore GIC cannot ever be audited by the auditor general or minister of finance or parliament or even the ppl. And yet it is a Sovereign Wealth Fund – conveniently not subject to int’l scrutiny. By extension, it is ‘MM’ Lee as a politician and ruling govt leader running – extending the sovereignty idea.
As a pte company, if there is any wrongdoing, does CAD or CPIB step in? I doubt.
Less than a few days back, there’s a snippet somewhere in ST that Temasek Hldings’ Ho Ching is getting some award from US. The snippet refers to TH as a sovereign fund. Yet, TH defends itself to the US govt that it is not a sovereign wealth fund with political interests, purely commercial. I find it confusing.
In all, do the benefits from the reserves and interests ever come back into the country’s annual budget. I am afraid if yes ever during the SARS recession days, it is but a drop in the lake.
For myself, I dun ever expect to bother abt CPF, GIC or Temasek Hldings funds or reserves. I have no expectations as in projecting any thought or wish into the future abt the availability of these funds or reserves. The main reason is I have no say or control over it.
I think self-help is the only way to go abt it or go on in life – exactly what the govt has been trying over the years telling ppl that they are on their own. However the govt and party has a hard time cutting the umbilical cord from the organs that serve its interests so well i.e. NTUC, PA or state funded places such as Singapore Technologies etc. Why? Centralised control and influence and hence the vote. It seems that it cannot liberate itself and ppl also cannot liberate themselves from this deadly embrace.
If I deviated, sorry. Btw, I am neither saying the govt is corrupt or incompetent. This is because if so, they are non unique on this earth. For lack of a better description, ppl have a pain avoidance mechanism that says they cannot be wrong.
GoodGrief
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I’ll pop in to look at this thread now and then but if it doesn’t elevate itself from repetitive calls for handouts
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Still hang up about hand-outs. I am also fed up with repetitive with the avoidance on your part to talk about tax relief.
Just stop using handouts as a political bogeyman. We are not on a campaign trail.
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Problem with specific sectors on the MRT? Yeah, sure, but my challenge was to ask if there was any improvement that was not being embarked upon for lack of funds…
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Then why have MRT and SBS transit been justifying their regular fare hikes based on “increasing operating costs”?
You still have not provide a clue when i asked you about the state of bus services in areas like Sengkang West.
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Not happy with GIC and Temasek transparency, make it an election issue. But I think if that is done, whoever raises it will be embarrassed because there is, to my eye, a fair bit of information out there already. In fact, so much that some other responder said earlier today, “too much, just give us bottom line” whereas others say “I want more details”. There is a fair bit already — why not digest it and figure out what specific misgivings or concerns you have?
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If late President Ong can’t figure it, i don’t think little people like us can too. Perhaps you are more brilliant than President Ong, why not run for President next time round then since you are so passionate about analyzing figures out there?
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OK, that’s it. If that’s the level and quality of discussion, I’m not going to waste my time carrying this further.
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If the quality of the posts here irks you so much, we promise we will get out of your uncaring elite face.Sorry about upsetting you.
Goodgrief,
And my challenge asking you to enlighten us on the powers of citizen shareholders has not been taken by you for some mysteriously unknown reasons on your part.
Dear Andrew,
Thank you for responding. Really appreciate it. I have no issue with your suggestions purely in the aspect of the lower-income group. Are there any official publication of what percentage of it governmental or non governmental? However, how do one classify low-income group is what really matters. This is about similar issue face here where I currently lived and worked (Hong Kong).
I think once that can be defined (hopefully the think tank up there is listening). Then surely it can be implemented. There are problems in defining the bracket as well. Why did I say that?
Take the recent announcement of rebate on PUB (if I remember correctly, it was announced a few days ago on Today online that I had read ~ well better than ST). The rebate is only applicable to HDB tenants up to 4 rooms flat? What about the rest of them? People who are living in HDB about 4 rooms’s flat or even private residence? There could be people who are already being classified into the low-income brackets. You will always have this invisible divisible line (just like the income tax bracket).
Regarding minimum wage (seemed a lot think it will work), Let me try to back up my reasoning why I think minimum wage will not work.
I personally have other thoughts. Setting minimum wage aint going to do it albeit it will give a temporary lift to the take home salary but will it not be enough to supplement the ever increasing daily needs? And you will end with the vicious cycle of making adjustment and loads of other hidden issues as it progresses. So do you lower the minimum wage when the economy is really stricken? You do that when you really have some from of natural resources to fall back into.
On the flip side of the coin in setting minimum wage, it will create more problems for people (in particular, young, older and unskilled), as the employers will feel the pinch and will demand more than the job responsibilities called for (which I believed it is the same case in Singapore at moment). Even without a minimum wage mandate in Hong Kong which has a similar business setting, it is at least the case here.
Setting minimum wage works only when the community of business people is willingly supplementing it. But are our employers in Singapore willingly accept this kind of arrangement? This is unknown albeit I read a recent survey that some Singapore employers will help its lower-income group of employees with some sort of supplement.
Forget about asking the top to consider reducing the big package they enjoy. I am tired of expressing any further views on that. Let them be. What I really hope they would do (be it whatever party), is to seriously look at how for the next few years to contain pricing on the basic necessities needs (such as housing, food, utilities, transportation). It is a tough one as this is not entirely within any government’s control. But they could at least temporarily subsidize for the lower-income group (ONLY) to make ends meet.
So, at the end of the day, to improve the living condition of these group of people, again it is back to basic how do you classify them and ensuring that it is not being abused. Too much procedure and rule it makes this group of people unwilling to come forward. Too little procedure and rule, it is susceptible for abuse. The balancing work is indeed something to be worked out. I think it is best for government agencies to proactively seek out this (defined) income group and give them the aide. Fair?
Whether we all agree or not is not important. The important thing is that the top people are listening and hopefully they get it implemented soon. and do not make it a propaganda for the coming election.
I personally would really hope that the government will accord us with more freedom to choose, more freedom to expression and so on. They can keep the ISA law as even big brother America also have the patriot act to counter national security breach. That is why I kept stressing that when we pen our comments in blog-sphere (if they ever come in to read and this seemed to be the best medium there is to voice out as concerned citizens), we need to exercise a state of maturity and prove to them that we are a grown-up bunch. If you want someone to change mindset that are deep rooted, you need to prove it that you are ready. Agree? It is not kow-tow to them or we are afraid of this or that. It is purely on basic principle of mutual winning strategy so often applied in corporate competitors.
I personally think this is more important and the urgency is there for them to address it. If you are stripe off these, nothing else matters. Otherwise you are forever at the mercy of the people governing it. What make us all think that Opposition will not follow the route of the PAP once they are in power? If you read the declaration from our MM back when he was battling to form his party, what were those words? Through the course of time, things got twisted from its original intent. Yes, you will probably see street demonstration in almost any issues. That can be annoying at times. But, that is also parts and parcels of true democracy process.
I fully agreed with MMs’ view this will not work ONLY in our days (my and patriot’s generation) as most of us are not well educated (not that we do not want to be educated). Sometimes the basic necessities are just too overwhelming and the environment in those days does not really work well with full democracy. The environment we are in today is different. Yes, there will be some form of social unrest here and there, tell me which country do not face these kind of problems anywhere in the world? We are Human Beings and we all will have differing views and values. That is the wonder and paint of being a Human Being.
So, people, please if you really want change, show and prove in anyway you can wherever you can to the top people there that we are ready. Never mind if the top people are not matured in thinking if you have these thoughts. Evolution of change can be infectious when the good values are recognized. But you must first prove it.
Sorry typo error. it should read.
You do that when you really have some form of natural resources to fall back into.
amanda so sweet n innocent just like angle……..
you’re lousy liar… dont even know how to bluff,,, dont ever play poker…
Your statment will only cause greater harm to your master.
Dear Andrew,
As to the summary statistics of the nays and ayes request for all the critical issues published here, I think it is worht the while to do it. As any form of change request, FACTS speaks louder and it is a form of supporting evidence to counter arguments. Well at least, this article and Human Rights issues.
I agree the task can be tedious. But if we are really serious hoping for the change to take effect, we need to try right? This again in its essence is a prove of concerned citizens movement in the virtual world made real.
I am a critical person in real life but I am not senseless nor am i cold blooded. Not only to myself but to others as well. But I certainly like the constructive critical approach when we are being put in an environment where we virtually have to compete for anything. I believe in today’s world, you really have to do it if you are being drag into it. Did we ask for it? No, it just happen with the changing time.
I really hope TOC consider spin off a topic on Global Climate Warming and its effect. How it impact us in a big way. Singapore will not be spare, planet earth weather change knows no boundary and its effect could possibly derail your planned future whether you are a person that only concerned with material wealth or you are more of a spiritual well being person. It too will not discriminate against poor or rich.
There are reports on its returns. But GIC being private means that we will not get to see it. I thought Solo Bear was explicit enough on this point. Either way, you seem to want to put yourself above the argument by referring to the powers-that-be: make it an election issue where you will fall on your face, the information exists when we should find it (and have YOU found it, since you profess that it exists?)
The Temasek Holdings site shows how much the portfolio has increased, not statistics like how much money went into the investment, and specifically, how much was made in returns. Or do you think, Good Grief, that such information is too dangerous to be released to us plebians?
No information is too deemed too much for Singaporean to digest. The internet is a global platform for collective and collaborative intelligence. If we are not capable of performing analysis, someone will in the net. If we are not intelligent enough to analyze a issue, someone will in the net. Let’s not flatter ourselves to think that one alone is capable of performing what President Ong did. President Ong did not get the information he need because many of those in the government rather play by LKY’s rule than for the good of Singapore, making it difficult for president Ong. We know whose rule is Singapore, don’t we ?
Did anyone realize that there are some here who downplay the importance of transparency and accountability by saying that one cannot digest the information even if the information is present. NOw, didn’t we learn from financial specialist like Lucky Tan, Leong Sze Hian etc ?
Why we need accountability, responsibility and transparency from the work and business of the gahmen ? Because it act as check and balance. The notion that someone is watching behind the back of the gahmen are good enough to ensure that gahmen don’t play prank and stray in morality. No one is asking for the perfect accountability, but good enough that one can question them critically.
Taking the example of the security guard in building ? Shortage of security guard may not be effective but it is still better than none at all because having security guard create the fear and deter the robber from attempting crime in the first place.
I do not know if GIC and Temasek Holdings have made good returns on their investments. They claim to have done so.
I do not know if an accusation that our coffers have been depleted by bad investments is true. I do not have any figures to decide one way or the other.
I do not know if money has been siplhoned off. I do not know how much there is to begin with.
I do not know what system of checks and balances we have.
I do not know how to answer when I was asked what our president does to earn close to 4 million dollars a year.
I do not know how many Singaporeans are unemployed.
I do not know why I am not permitted to know.
I do not know how such a state of affairs can be tolerated.
I do not know why I should blindly trust the current government based on the achievements of the previous one.
I do not know if the top people are listening.
I do not know if they care even they did.
I do know that in all forms of relationships, I do not trust those that choose to keep me ignorant.
The comments come in fast and furious for this article, much thank must be accorded to amanda for her provocative and instigative posts.
Now Singaporeans get to know that USA is inferior in almost everything, most importantly, the governance of nation, to Singapore. All these while, I have been hearing that the US is the most powerful nation and the man(presidents) heading it, is the most powerful man(whatever that means) in the World and therefore it must be the best governed. A lady from Singapore staying there now, seems to disagree. The US even fails to give Iraq the democracy; of course the only democracy the US can give Iraq is not to interfere in its’(Iraq) internal affairs lah.
Amanda concludes that the Singapore Leaders have done and are doing much for their citizens. But, the citizens failed to appreciate and instead whine and rant at their rulers. Implicitly and tacitly, she also meant that Singaporeans are ungrateful. She had to foot the cost of her studies in US, looked liked a much higher sum than if she had studied in Singapore, why then did she went to the US for study, baffling!
Amanda seems to discontinue the discussions with us or communicate lesser now, I would like to invite her to interact with us more, so that we can have alternative viewpoints and a wider perspective of issues.
patriot.
“I do not know if GIC and Temasek Holdings have made good returns on their investments. They claim to have done so.”
If one hide everything, one can say whatever they want in the first place. If they indeed credible, why did exPresident Ong is so furious about the discrepency on reserves and investment of coffers’ corporation plaything ? Is there a creative accounting and manipulation done behind the scene that cannot face public scrutiny ? One can definitely answer if one take the clue from the ‘world class’ reasons from the minister so far.
increase ERP entry and charge to help business
Increase to help the poor
Use MSM for nation building
Goodgrief, why chicken out ? Have your half truths been exposed ?
I just don’t understand why you and amanda are wasting your time denying what even Lee Kuan Yew and some other ministers have admitted on the world stage.
They admitted that Singapore is not a true democratic society. That Singaporeans were not given the complete picture of their wealth for fear that they will demand too much from the government (per LKY). As a Singaporean living in Australia I seen to know more about Singapore than the Singaporean living in Singapore. When pap junior minister responded to Singaporean question at a feedback session on how much the GIC has, by saying that it is a secret, I had a good laugh. The media in the first world has already printed a few times their estimates of how much it is. That is why I came to the figure of US$500 billion. I also happened to know that our gold holdings were valued at cost and some of them were bought at US$35 an oz while the current market value is over US$850. So even if they reveal their complete books, it will not be easy to pin down the exact worth. That is why the people in charge must be honest with us. If not, there is no way Singaporeans will ever know. Not even the President as the experiences of Ong Teng Cheong illustrated. There is this thing call creative accounting and abuse of statistics.
Dear People,
Its very clear that we have very little transparency regarding the way our money is managed by the GLC’s etc.
I do NOT accuse the Government of corruption or anything like that. But what really hurts my feelings- is this total refusal to help out Singaporeans by some subsidies of important commodities like rice, sugar etc in this age of oil crises and food shortages.
They – the Government – can happily risk losing billions of our money in overseas investments. Shin Corp, Suzhou and so on. Yet they cannot even spend a little bit to help us.
I feel very hurt………….Tak Boleh Tahan !!
Dear people,
Actually, there is a provision set in our constitution that can force the government to open their books. It is the Elected Presidency.
The Elected President can ask for the books to be opened, because public funds are involved. That was what OTC tried to do. However, he was stonewalled and outcasted. He wasn’t even given a state funeral when he died – yeah, the ONLY ex-president of Singapore WITHOUT a state funeral!
That goes to show how bitter the Old Man was, when OTC tried to do his job, which will make Old Man look bad.
I believe that the people can also get a referendum, to pressure the Elected President to get PAP to open the books. Anyone wanna try that? Hee hee. Thought so.
So the only thing left to do is that come 2011, let your vote do the talking. But I doubt it will happen. Because 60+% will still return the PAP back into power. Tan ku ku ah.
Another alternative for those who are able to, is to be a quitter. Let your feet do the talking and just walk out. Need more be said?
I need more Singapore friends to join me in Canada, should I decide to uproot here totally. Here is a link to help you migrate to beautiful Canada. I got my PR approved within less than 4 years. Hurry up or you will miss the boat.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/index.asp
Yea! Canada is the second largest country in the world and is severely underpopulated. Large spacious, unchartered land, where bears roam free!
To cut long story short, the GLC and Temasex are not transparent. Only LKY and LHL know the reserves, and profit & loss, even President Ong did not know. What is the use of elected presidency ? Nathan just collects $3.8 million per annum, and shakes legs, I eco the view of Dr Syed Alwi, Tak Boleh Tahan !!! Today Teo Chee Hean gives rice, cooking oil to the ppl of pasir ris, nia mah !! TV channel 5 headline, give rice want to gain credit?? Is it not political ploy ?? Ask Ng eng hen, govt does thing means care for the people. Low Thia Kiang asked questions means political ploy, nia mah !! Tak Boleh Tahan !!! pui!! pui !!
Dear ppl,
pardon me for saying this… i cannot tahan… even if king of vampire awakes, he also dont suck like PAP… PAP are worse them beast…
Do they know what is the feeling of hunger? do they know what is the feling of being poor? Have they seem any oldies without a home?
They are the gov, and yet they only suck and increase their own welfare… i FXXX them…
Response to Posts #165 and #167. My responses prefixed by ***
>165) No need to good grief on June 29th, 2008 6.32 pm
>GoodGrief
>>I’ll pop in to look at this thread now and then but if it doesn’t elevate itself
>>from repetitive calls for handouts
>Still hang up about hand-outs. I am also fed up with repetitive with
>the avoidance on your part to talk about tax relief.
>
>Just stop using handouts as a political bogeyman. We are not on a
>campaign trail.
*** The premise of many naysayers on this thread is that there should be special treatment for various categories of consumer products, starting from rice, but spreading to oil, sugar, etc. “Where it stops, nobody knows” — whether it is a tax relief or a subsidy, a rose by any other name smells just as sweet.
*** What sort and quantity of tax relief are you talking about? MOF lists the following:
• Benefits For All Singaporeans – $5b
• Growth Dividends – $865m
• GST Offset Package – $4b over 5 yrs
• SME Rebate Scheme – no dollar value stated
• Progress Package – no dollar value stated
• Economic Restructuring Shares – no dollar value stated
• New Singapore Shares – no dollar value stated
*** What should we do? Double these values? Triple them, Quad them? 10x them? “Where it stops, nobody knows”
>>Problem with specific sectors on the MRT? Yeah, sure, but my challenge was
>> to ask if there was any improvement that was not being embarked upon for >>lack of funds…
>>
>Then why have MRT and SBS transit been justifying their regular fare
>hikes based on “increasing operating costs”?
*** Huh? I asked if there were any infrastructural improvements that were not being embarked upon because of a lack of funds. MRT and SBS are merely operators. They operate infrastructure which Govt provides. What is the point of targetting a part of the Govt Revenue for a specific purpose, if there is no shortage of funds for that specific purpose, if it is deserved?
>You still have not provide a clue when i asked you about the state of
>bus services in areas like Sengkang West.
*** And all this started when I asked whether anyone has heard of infrastructural projects which have been delayed or mothballed because there are no funds…. so? Have you?
>>Not happy with GIC and Temasek transparency, make it an election issue.
>>But I think if that is done, whoever raises it will be embarrassed
>>because there is, to my eye, a fair bit of information out there already.
>>In fact, so much that some other responder said earlier today, “too
>>much, just give us bottom line” whereas others say “I want more
>>details”. There is a fair bit already — why not digest it and figure out
>>what specific misgivings or concerns you have?
>>
>If late President Ong can’t figure it, i don’t think little people like us can
>too. Perhaps you are more brilliant than President Ong, why not run for
>President next time round then since you are so passionate about
>analyzing figures out there?
*** I don’t know what specific problem OTC had. But the numbers are there, and if you want to assert that the numbers are not there, then tell me what’s not there. I only know that when I see the unit fund performance data provided by banks, they state the value of the entire fund, and as such, the portfolio performance. Why is it relevant to know, if you are selling chicken rice, that you bought $300 worth of chicken to sell at $450 if the main purpose is to ascertain whether the chicken rice stall managed to make $150?
>167) No need to good grief on June 29th, 2008 6.40 pm
>
>Goodgrief,
>
>And my challenge asking you to enlighten us on the powers of
>citizen shareholders has not been taken by you for some
>mysteriously unknown reasons on your part.
*** Well, I thought it is quite clear — the powers of citizens include (a) actually caring enough to read the stuff that’s available and not make potshots for the sake of making potshots; (b) asking questions to their elected representatives (Won’t work? Have you tried?). Ultimately, if there is the “siphoning away” that some people suggest, make it an election issue.
*** Walk the talk. Don’t just talk and talk. The status quo doesn’t bother me — there are other problems that we have but the sniping I see in this discussion thread do not even begin to be relevant.
*** As they say, “Lead, Follow or Get Out of the Way”. So a simple note to those who’ve moved to Australia or Canada — all the best, and I hope you do well. We all have to make our own decisions and yes, if we want to, we should just get out of the way.
*** So long and thanks for all the fish.
I think Singaporeans aren’t worth even the waters. Recently the govt decided to invest $11billion to develop a new reservoir. They rather throw the $$$ into investment rather than helping poor Singaporeans.
Good Grief
>>
The premise of many naysayers on this thread is that there should be special treatment for various categories of consumer products, starting from rice, but spreading to oil, sugar, etc. “Where it stops, nobody knows” — whether it is a tax relief or a subsidy, a rose by any other name smells just as sweet.
>>
All was silent about subsidies on education and HDB flats. But what can we expect from bogeyman politics?
>>
Huh? I asked if there were any infrastructural improvements that were not being embarked upon because of a lack of funds. MRT and SBS are merely operators. They operate infrastructure which Govt provides. What is the point of targetting a part of the Govt Revenue for a specific purpose, if there is no shortage of funds for that specific purpose, if it is deserved?
>>
Why not use the money to cover the operating costs? The purpose of ERP is ultimately get everyone on the trains? So the ultimate purpose of ERP is to let ERP gantries be redundant one day.
If you keep increasing fares on public transport and not spending money improving on services, when is a substantial switch to public transport going to occur?
Your notion is that once we have grandeur and impressive infrastructure, we can all forget about pertinent issues like fares, services and waiting time etc. Funds from ERP can be used to address to deal with all these obstacles of a switch to public transport. For some interesting reasons, you are infrastrutural-obessive.Never mind about these things, as long as we have an impressive station, that’s all it matters.
I suppose then you will find the Pyongyang Metro the most impressive: they got palatial like stations. As for the frequency of trains, it is not really your concern.
>>
And all this started when I asked whether anyone has heard of infrastructural projects which have been delayed or mothballed because there are no funds…. so? Have you?
>>
Why not spend the money on providing some bus routes using ERP funds? Why are you afraid of addressing the needs of poor residents in places Sengkang West?
>>
*** What sort and quantity of tax relief are you talking about? MOF lists the following:
• Benefits For All Singaporeans – $5b
• Growth Dividends – $865m
• GST Offset Package – $4b over 5 yrs
• SME Rebate Scheme – no dollar value stated
• Progress Package – no dollar value stated
• Economic Restructuring Shares – no dollar value stated
• New Singapore Shares – no dollar value stated
>>
Sure that’s an impressive list. In a few years time, all this will find their way back in the coffers in the form of the 7% GST which is not a one-off event unlike those “goodies”. Aren’t you amazed with fiscal prudence of this kind? I suggest you do some simple math. Taxation 101, aren’t you interested in signing up?
>>
I don’t know what specific problem OTC had
>>
Are you implying that OTC is making a mountain out of a molehill then? Yes or no?
>>
Well, I thought it is quite clear — the powers of citizens include (a) actually caring enough to read the stuff that’s available and not make potshots for the sake of making potshots; (b) asking questions to their elected representatives (Won’t work? Have you tried?). Ultimately, if there is the “siphoning away” that some people suggest, make it an election issue.
>>
Wait, aren’t shareholders suppose to have AGMs and annual reports? Where are they? Election issue? Without annual reports and balance sheets to prove it, one will get into civil law suits. Save your rhetorical questions for yourself. Please read up on what is asymmetric information.
You make claims about transparency but i doubt you read the papers:
LKY:There have always been these calls for transparency and we have been careful about it. There are reasons why we do not think we should be too transparent.
Can to comment on the above quote?
GoodGrief
And you haven’t share your thoughts about the regressiveness of GST.
Maybe you are only a specialist in subsidies. The nature of taxes is just too much for some to fgiure out since they are been ultra-obsessive with subsidies.
You still haven’t comment on why Singapore students and HDB flat dwellers are not part of your highly dramatic, sensational and theatrical notion of a “subsidies blackhole”.
Your talent in bogeyman politics can be of better use in Greek tragic drama.
GoodGrief
Given your insistence on the available of information, we have one question which you have been mysteriously avoiding.
For one last time we gotta to ask you: Where is the annual report with the balance sheet, profit and loss statement etc? Where?
No answer from GoodGrief… I think that settles his/her argument then.
Dear Good Grief,
Yes – the Government does give one-time handouts like New Singapore Shares etc. But I think the fact that they increased GST to 7% – more than covers the one-time nature of hand-outs. There is a common wisdom in Singapore that if the Government gives you $ 100 – they will take from you $ 1000 !!
Forget one time hand outs. I want to see a policy statement regarding subsidies etc. Why is the Government prepared to lose billions in overseas investments but totally refuses to subsidise any commodities for us ?
And where is the Profit & Loss, Balance Sheet etc from the GLC’s ?
Young talking again – Say what you like the PAP has done a good job over the years. It is trying very hard still and planning to counter adversities in many scenarios reaction plans.
If you are talking about all inclusive society, then there is a long way ahead – help others ? fat hope ; president & ministers and civil servants helped themselves first – it is natural like animals -feed yourself then your children. Except here there may be obescity settingin. Have you ever seen president or ministers making a personal contribution of cash to charity ?
Class Action – who dares ? The parents affected by the UNSWAsia campus closure spoked about it in the parents and UNSW staff dialogue; however ministers involved declined to meet the parents. NOT MY FAULT.
So in Singapore, you get what is dished out ; rich or poor – important thing is to take care of yourself and your health especially; remember you cannot bring money along when your time is up.
Why waste time having opinions; channel you energy towards spiritual and holistic well being ; any other things include FTs that come along be hopefully blessings. Good bye guys…………………..
Alright, I agree that the brick wall analogy was not that well chosen. But the main point of the analogy is to show you that parts and the whole are different.
Here is another example, this year the New York Giants won the American superbowl, the biggest achievement in American Football. That is success for the team.
On the other hand, if you were a an individual football player, presumably individual success might be the chance to earn more money or the chance to start every game. (correct me if instead players want to earn as little as possible and start as little as possible). So the coach, would have to make pragmatic decisions to increase the chances of the team winning. That is similar to the role of the government. If the coach thinks a player is making a mess, he should drop the player for the good of the team. That would not be very “successful” of the player. I hope this shows a greater distinction between “individual success” and the “team(national) interest”.
Furthermore, as mentioned earlier, I went to the USA to study not on a scholarship, but instead through the help of my parents. You say that Singapore should not need to sponsor me since I left; yes that is correct. However, conversely it does mean that those who come to Singapore to support and to create success for us, should deserve our support. Can you then rightfully say that there are at least not some Foreign Talents , or “FT”s as some of you like to refer to them, that make a difference? Or can you rightly say that for every job in the country, Singaporeans are better? If you don’t give the better person a job, is that still a meritocracy?
I find it odd that anytime someone appears to agree with the Singapore government it means that they must either be a Singapore Scholar/ member of the PAP, or government affiliated civil servant? Why can’t people who genuinely agree with the government’s policies be none of the above? Well, sorry to disappoint any of you, but I am neither a scholar, nor a party member, nor a civil servant. I am just a young lady living in NY with her daughter and husband. And no, my husband is not Singaporean, so if we choose to stay in the States, that is our choice.
Earlier, there was a list of short questions regarding million dollar ministers and what not. Anyway, I said something like “trust the million dollar minister” because that is the standard of answer your standard of questioning deserves. I grew up in Singapore, and as you might have heard before from your secondary school teacher, ” stupid questions deserve stupid answers”.
Honestly, why keep repeating the point that ministers are earning a million dollars ? That is irrelevant to the conclusion even though it may be true. Why not reiterate the point that the minister is male? That is true too isn’t it? This perpetual reference to money does not play much of a role in the argument.
Well, the discussion went well at points. You are entitled to your own views, and I am entitled to mine. I mean, just put your points across in a polite and dignified fashion. For example, “Weijia” and “Victor” obviously do not agree with what I say, but I think that their points are put across in a very fair and dignified fashion. Some people, for example Tiredman, would rather question my motivations and cannot carry on a conversation in a dignified and polite manner. Of course, I should have realized that theonlinecitizen tends to attract more of the people who do not like the government’s policies, so I guess I should have expected a relatively hostile response from other commenters and forum users. But I stand by my opinions.
This thread is getting long and repetitive , as noted earlier, and I have work to do. I’ll comment again whenever I have the inspiration to do so.
Meanwhile, thanks for your responses.
Jackson,
Certain projects proposed and done by the Government are good for us and the future generations. Building more reservoirs, tapping on the sun energy to replace pure reliance on oil as another alternatives and making an effort to bring awareness the importance of saving the earth are good. However, the Government also brought in dire project in the future and their acquisitions of overseas’ assets and investments scare me. Their politics and policies scare me too. Ultimately, the prosperity of a country is not measured by the wealth the Government generates but the welfare and well-being of her countrymen and women.
Dear people,
Don’t depend on the govt for hand outs. This is political ploy, like Dr Syed Alwi, they give you an inch, they want to take back a foot. These are all ploy, we live under pap for so long, we know all these ploy. Singaporeans have to wake up and vote in more opposition MPs to check on them. They gamble away our reserves in bad investment, though MM Lee said it is long term, but if it fails, who is answerable, who is accountable, after 30 years, both Lees are gone. Who should be responsible ? President ?
“with one of the highest savings rates in the world, become so dependent on government handouts to even just get by?”
It is true that we are getting more and more dependent on the Government for “progress package”, “handouts” and such. Funny thing is that if we are getting better off than last time, why is the Govt. giving even more to us people now? Does that equate to the Govt. being better off, but not the people? So who’s better off truly?
We are into a period of good economic growth and social development… If there are no wars or oil crises, this golden period can stretch out over many years… (Singapore in a golden period, says MM Lee, 2007),
- but the fact is MM Lee doesn’t reliase the period he is stating is an utopia period that does not exist. There IS something that will happen. Do not lie to ourselves that we are in an golden era, unless he means only the people working in the CBD area.
Dear Amanda,
Action speaks louder than words, Amanda. Your action do not match all your praises.
You said:
“The government should take care of the national interest rather than individual people. After all, the government is not your papa or mama.”
Do you think that by making the above statement is “carrying on a conversation in a dignified and polite manner”? You are trying to tell us off that we are like children or babies asking for more money or you are trying to tell us that we do not deserve the right that we should have because in fact Singapore is not our country. Are you sure that your are polite when you are trying to tell people that you are just a cry baby?
If you want others to be polite to you, please rephrase this statement(s) or you are just making another “get out of my uncaring elite face” statement.
Finally, you did not answer all my questions. I am asking you to convince me and seem like you are not able to answer all my questions. Fortunately, you have answered some of my queries, however, your answer(s) are similar to the answers that had been told over and over again by our great ministers and can be easily rebutted by most of the bloggers here. Thereafter, you started to choose words, like the above to piss people off by insulting and started to label I as undignified, impolite when you yourself started off as being one.
Do not do this to others when you do not like others to do this to you. Sorry, you are not Leong Sze Hian or Tan Kin Lian who speak for the people.
Thank you.
By the way, I do not support any political parties.
Amanda, Good Grief
>>
“” stupid questions deserve stupid answers”.
>>
Isn’t this mudslinging and smearing in its ugliest form?
Even if we ask a “stupid” question, why not answer it “smartly”? You mean giving a stupid answer is all that you are capable of? Hmm..
We “stupid” people here will get out of your elite uncaring face.
Goodgrief, please comment on your good friend’s scathing remark. Thanks.
Amanda
>>
Can you then rightfully say that there are at least not some Foreign Talents , or “FT”s as some of you like to refer to them, that make a difference? Or can you rightly say that for every job in the country, Singaporeans are better? If you don’t give the better person a job, is that still a meritocracy?
>>
I know of Michael Vana, is he counted inside this pool of foreign talent? Chen Jiulin, China Aviation Oil CEO, foreign talent also leh. These people make a difference… to the headlines of the boring local papers and i appreciate that.
I suggest we outsource our bureaucracy to overseas. Why not give foreign talent a chance to be top civil servants then? Comments, Amanda?
Amanda;
may I suggest that if you are a US Citizen now, do your duty as a US Citizen like we Singaporeans are doing with our Ruler. Apparently, you are showing us that there are many aspects of livings in your country(US) that you are unhappy with. And as a US Citizen, do yourself, your family and your fellow Americans some goods by feeding back suggestions and criticisms to your political leaders.
Your participations here are very welcome too if you are factually and sincerely aware of the situations existing here. Due to the distance, cultural and political differences between where you are and here, I doubt you can understand much of Singapore. I may like to ask if you comprehend the differences between a rich and a poor families and a country with plenty of resources versus one that has none? Please do not take these as insignificant issues.
There are glaring weaknesses in your comments so far, you keep giving fuzzy analogies that have no connections to the discussions as well as politics and governance. You gave building wall(architecture) football(game/sport) analogies and what nots, completely not link to the topic and the discussions. You got to be relevant. If you are suspected of being a mole, my sympathy goes to the Suspicion.
Amanda, you may have emotional ties to this land you are born in, it is good for you to have feelings for your once homeland and relatives here. Always bear in mind, the ideals that we are struggling for, are also for them. Hope you can at least comprehend that none here are fighting for personal gains. Do not be quick tempered and get too ‘pissed off’ so easily, we treasure your concerns from afar. May you have a better tomorrow in the US.
patriot.
Amanda
>>
why keep repeating the point that ministers are earning a million dollars ?
>>
If you are hired by the company for a million dollars to be the CEO, you think it is not justified the shareholders should size you up every now and then?
>>
. I hope this shows a greater distinction between “individual success” and the “team(national) interest”.
>>
Who defines what is “national interest”? The people or a small group of powerful elites? The hegemony to define things cannot be underestimated. History is littered with examples of powerful elites defining “national” interest. We all know what happened in Myanmar and Zimbabwe.
>>
cannot carry on a conversation in a dignified and polite manner..
>>
BUT Amanda says: “stupid questions deserve stupid answers”
Hmm.. then i think we have very different notions of “dignified” and “polite” i think.
>>
Of course, I should have realized that theonlinecitizen tends to attract more of the people who do not like the government’s policies, so I guess I should have expected a relatively hostile response from other commenters and forum users. But I stand by my opinions.
>>
Why paint others as biased and negative? Others’ opinion are as good as yours and does not warrant your disparaging castigation of “stupid question deserves stupid answers”. Talk about double standards.
I guess from this exchange, many can judge for themselves who are those who are holding to strong partisan perspectives. Someone’s posts are so brilliant such that they can be mistaken to be electioneering speeches.
Patriot,
It is late now, but I will give you a short reply.
->Due to the distance, cultural and political differences between where you are and here, I doubt you can understand much of Singapore.
yes, you are right. I don’t deny that I may be out of touch with Singapore’s sociopolitical situation having been out of the country for a period of time.
To all other questioners demanding replies from me:
” Go ask your million dollar minister” – I’m not your million dollar minister.
last comment,
amanda
patriot,
PS. oh, i also meant to say that you are entitled to your own view, as I am entitled to mine, just like any other of the forumers here. I don’t have to persuade you, you don’t have to persuade me.
regards.
On “stupid questions deserve stupid answers”, consider giving the top prize to Ng Eng Hen for his reply in parliament (Sitting Date: 17 Mar 2003, http://wp-in-parliament.blogspot.com/2003_03_01_archive.html):
Mr Low Thia Khiang: A further clarification. So what is exactly the definition, or is there no definition of foreign talent? Is an EP holder considered as a foreign talent or just a foreign worker?
[EP: employment pass]
Dr Ng Eng Hen: Sir, “foreign” means not local, and “talent” means the opposite of non-talented.
I feel Ng showed utter disrespect for parliament.