While the economic prospects remain dim for the poor people in this economic system, society should allow and help them to have a good price for their remaining few “personal assets”.
A Singapore tycoon suffering from kidney failure wanted to buy a kidney from a donor. An Indonesian donor was willing to sell his kidney for over $20,000. This sparked a big debate in the daily newspapers. Should similar transactions be allowed?
I wish to discuss this issue from three angles.
Medical
The medical profession has decided that it is all right for a healthy donor to donate a kidney to a recipient, provided that they pass the appropriate medical tests. The impairment to the lifespan of the donor should be small, and should be more than compensated for by the increase in life expectancy of the recipient.
Society has decided that this should be done for a non-commercial reason, and that the donation be allowed only to a recipient who is a close relative. The law does not allow human organs to be sold for a commercial value. This brings the argument to the ethical sphere.
Ethics
If it is medically acceptable for a healthy person to donate a kidney to a family member, why should this person be prevented from selling the kidney for a commercial value?
Here are two possible reasons:
- People should be discouraged from selling their organs, as it is degrading to the value of human life
- People should be given a fair value for their spare organs and not be exploited by the middlemen.
I agree with both reasons. I wish that society can be fairer to the poorer people, so that they can have a decent standard of life, without having to sell their organs.
But what if society fails to deliver the hope of a better life for the poorer people? It is not right for society to deny this choice to the poor people and not allow them a means to earn a large sum of money (according to their living standards) to take care of the well-being of their families. For some poor people this could be the only way to lift the family out of poverty or to send a child to university.
Perhaps it is better for society to help these poor people to get a good deal for what is perhaps their last “personal asset”. This is to compensate for the failure of the free market system in giving poor people a fair deal in other aspects of their lives and the opportunity to lead an economically fulfilling life.
This brings us to the financial aspect.
Financial
What is a fair deal to the donor who is willing to give up a spare organ? They should be helped in the following ways:
- A proper medical assessment that the donor is suitable to make the organ donation, with only an acceptably small impairment to their life expectancy.
- The price for the organ is established at a fair amount, representing a few years of the income of the donor, based on the average living standard of the country.
There could be other systems to determine a fair price of the human organ. This can be left to another discussion.
Prevention of crime
There appears to be a demand for human organs and people who are willing to pay. In the absence of a regulated arrangement, criminals are willing to meet this demand by playing the middleman. I have heard horror stories about the gruesome methods used by these criminals, although there is no evidence to substantiate these stories.
It is important that the supply of human organs should not be left to the black market for criminals. The criminals steal the human organs from unwilling victims and sell them to wealthy recipients who are desperate and willing to pay a large sum of money for this last hope to extend their lives.
By having properly-managed arrangements, we can deny the criminals this market.
Experiences in other countries
Donors in India are usually poor people who sell one of their kidneys while they are still alive. The buyers are mostly people from the rich countries of the Arabian Gulf. Poor people sell one of their kidneys to pay debts, to pay for necessary surgery, or for other family needs. Many poor villagers even expect that they will have to sell a kidney to provide a dowry for their daughters.
The Indian government tried to stop this trade in 1997 by making it illegal. But the organ trade is probably increasing instead, just that now it has gone “underground’ and is controlled by crime gangs. There are also stories of organ theft, where people are told they need a small operation but one of their kidneys is removed instead.
In Brazil, it is common to buy and sell kidneys, although people try to make it look less commercial. Private arrangements are made between the donor and the person who wants the kidney. The donors might pretend to be relatives. Many doctors are comfortable performing the operations and ask no questions.
As one doctor in Rio de Janeiro said, “I don’t want to know what kind of private exchanges have taken place between my kidney patients and their living donors. But obviously you have to suspect something when the patient is a wealthy Rio socialite and her ‘donor’ is a poor, barefoot ‘cousin’ from the country.”
Who decides?
I hope that the final decision on the sale of the human organs be left to potential donors. They can be assisted in making informed choices by a proper medical assessment of their suitability to make the organ donation and be given a fair price for this donation.
This decision should not be left to the more affluent members of the community, who do not face the economic plight of poor people, unless they are willing to pay higher taxes to lift up the living standards of the poverty-stricken.
A better solution
A better solution is to improve the living standards of the poor, so that they do not need to consider this last desperate measure to have a better future for their families. While the economic prospects remain dim for the poor people in this economic system, society should allow and help them to have a good price for their remaining few “personal assets”.
————–
What are the concerns about the quality and risks of a willing donor? Shouldn’t these concerns also apply to the living-related donors?
I have come across a living-related donor who is unwilling to donate. But somehow she was pressured by the wife of the patient into donating as relative has a better chance of a good-match. Wose still she had to bear the cost of the operations and the subsequent follow-ups.
The government is encouraging living-related organ donation. But the government does not seem to be fair to the living-related donor.
With a new generation where the families are small, the chance of a good match from living-related donor is getting slimmer. Should something be done about it?
Given a chance, whether poor or rich, the patient will take whatever risk to improve his life. It may just be to prolong his life and have enough energy to make time for his family and see his kids grow up before he passes on.
To a kidney patient, it is not just having to spend 12 hours a week hooked up to the dialysis machine. He is almost totally drained after each dialysis and may also suffer cramps and headaches. When he feels slightly better, he will need to go through the same suffering again and again……….with 2 needles bigger than the size of a normal pencil waiting for him.
Why hold such a high moral ground? Who is SMA to jump the gun against legalising organ trade?
If I were poor, I would like to be given an option to donate or sell (whatever you call it, it was immaterial to me) my organ(s) for a reasonable compensation, especially if this was the only way I could upgrade my living standard or the fastest mean to do so. But to make sure that I was not exploited by any middle-man, there should be only a single controlled channel or controlling body for me to go through. There should be no place for a middle-man. At the same time, the controlling body could explain to me the procedures and risks involved that I might have to go through for the operations. It should also make sure that all my personal interests were well taken care of.
With regards to the compensation, it should be at least five-year equivalent of earnings, totally tax-free based on the country of origin plus insurance premiums. For the case of a Singaporean donor, it should be pegged to the 50 percentile of Singaporean’s earnings, including CPF. For example, if the 50 percentile monthly earning was $3,500 including CPF, the compensation would work out to be $210,000. At the same time, I should be automatically insured for life, with a single premium payment, to take care of my family if anything were to happen to me. I should also be medically insured under a single premium payment, with all medical expenses paid for if the medical condition was one related to my organ donation. If subsequently, my lone kidney was to fail, I should be given top priority to jump queue and had a transplant with all medical expenses paid by the medical insurance. The life and medical insurance premiums to be paid should be separately determined by the insurers and not loaded onto the existing members.
On the other hand, if I were a patient who needed an organ transplant, I would like to have an option to be able to choose between a living-related donor or other types of donor. If given a choice, I might not want to have a living-related transplant. There would be too much moral obligations involved. I would not want to be exploited by any middle-man. So similarly, I hoped that there was only a single controlling body to regulate the queue and the matching process, to make sure that all patients, poor or rich, were given an equal chance and priority on a first-come-first-serve basis, subject to compatibility. The medical expenses for the operations, etc. should be one similar to current scheme, subject to mean-testing if necessary.
As I had gained from the organ transplant, I should give something back in return, by pledging to donate my organs after my death.
To further encourage living-related donors, the government should waive all medical expenses for these donors. It should also consider giving benefits and medical priority for the donors.
Currently, organs are being harvested for transplant from those who are involved in road accidents. Why not consider those who are sentenced to death, for whatever reasons? Should the laws be reviewed to include them to increase and enlarge the donor pool? These people should do something good to the society!
SMA against legalising human organ trade
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/360088/1/.html
“..And, it’s well documented that organ donors do suffer from, what we call, donor remorse.”
who could advise better than SMA in regards to long-term & short-term health risks for the donors?
Why do they suffer donor remorse?
They felt exploited, knowing that they were paid peanuts when the middlemen got most of the money? They had squandered the compensation they got? They ended up financially and physically worse off? What are the real reasons? Can these be addressed? What is the number of such donor as compared to those who felt they were better off? Or just for a small number, we deny many others who are prepared to upgrade themselves by donating an organ.
If there are long-term and short-term health risks, why tell living-related donors a different version then? Are the living-related donors being exploited, having a close emotional link with the recipients? Besides having to go through the operations and suffer the pain and downtime without salary, they have to cough out money out of their pocket to pay for all medical expenses.
We should encourage more of Singasoft or the likes to come forth to give a more balanced view of the whole issue of organ trading. TKL should be more open to different views and not be so sensitive.
Do we all want to be like walking Dollars and Cents one day? That will be a sad day for humanity!
Those who agree to organs trading should honestly ask themselves….will you trade you orgrans ? Don’t use “if”, ask this question based on your present situations..
Don’t make decisions for the poor, let them make for their own…
Tan Kin Lian said let the poor make decision, I agree, but by making decision to legalize organs trading…aren’t we making decision for the poor?
Do a census…
How many kidney patients can actually afford to buy an organ?
NKF was supposed to help poor kidney patients until Durai had this fantastic idea of running a charity like a profit centre.
Ultimately, there is always a demand more than supply issue unless having one kidney is a fashion statement.
Who gets it will eventually be a means testing issue.
To put it plainly, I don’t trust any organisation will be able to do a good and fair job. Look at our government. Look at NKF. Look at Ren Ci.
If the laws remain, a decision has in fact been made for the poor. The option is open only if the laws are amended. At that point in time, the poor can then decide for themselves whether to donate or not.
Why jump to the conclusion that by legalising, the poor will be queueing to sell or donate their organs?
What sort of people are now calling for organs trading to be legalized?
Are they the poor?
I suspect these are the people who never think they will sell their own organs…
They don’t want to sell their organs, but yet they want to have better assurance that when they need it they can buy it…
The author of this article, do you think he ever imagine himself selling his organs? I personally doubt that question ever come to his mind.
This is probably a worse sin than legalising and further liberalising gambling rules. As it is, the poor in Singapore is already penalised. Is this the new measure to help them cope with inflation? What is this place becoming? This same argument that the health minister used can be easily modified for heroin and other drugs. Yet we continue to ban them. Are we going to run advertisements in the future to advise people not to sell their kidneys? Increasingly, new rules are set up so that we are lawful and yet ethically wrong.
i thought ,not long ago, someone said organ transplants motivated by financial transactions are definitely wrong, morally and legally.
I dont know abt you, but there is a couple of good articles on this area in todays Singaporedaily.net only problem is I cant seem to log on just now. I read it earlier during lunch time. maybe a better way will be to change the metrics from No of patients healed against No of patients who do not get medical help?
The acid test is whether the rich man is willing to have any of his immediate family members sign off the rights to one of their kidneys so that he can receive one in advance? If not, what are his concerns? Does he fear for the health of that family member after the donation? He does have the means to provide care for his family member in the event of a donation than the poorer man does.
Hi all, greetings to everyone.
I do like to sell my kidneys,eyes or any usable parts in body. as per recent medical reports, everything in good condition, if anyone intrested to buy can contact me, I need this money urgently,pls. contact me, I will not sell one kidney, any one interested to buy eyes, kidneys as whole or who want to use me for research or testing can contact me at friendsfrnd@yahoo.com
hi all…
i would like to sell my kidney, if anyone want to use my kidney, please contact my email : mykidney999@yahoo.com
for sure my condition is healthy 23 years old of age and blood type is O
thx everyone.
Also, many women would now consider renting their wombs if the local law allows it cos of poverty. And then some would do it for the sheer potential profit (can relax and still be paid after organ donation or during & after pregnancy).
I shall sell the kidney promptly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! To Whom it is interesting and the fast and actual help in this question is necessary write on caenna9ff@gmail.com
i would like to sell my kidney, because i have to travel to africa (malaria volunteer
)….. and i don´t have enough money
#71 SPAMMMMMMM !!!
I want sell ALL my Organs IN LIFE. Because I will be alone in the world in the future;I will be available for travel anywhere in the world from Mexico City for donate ALL my Organs: Herat; Kidneys; Both Lungs; Eyes; etc with the only condition what All will be raked indefinitely untilwhat All with be integrated again in one body. About my bones; I want will be deposit with my Mother here in Mexico. I DONT WILL BE CREMATED OR SUICIDE MYSELF WITHOUT SENSE.For that reason I freely do this AND BY MY OWN WILL. I don`t damage anyboby with this. THIS IS NOT A IMAGINATION. ABSOLUTE SERIOUSNESS. Please to write to me to sementaljunior@yahoo.com.mx Healthful; I don`t smoke nor consumption drugs. Sportsman. I HOPE THAT SOMEBODY HELPS ME. Thanks and Farewell!
It’s legal to abort a child in a womb but you can’t sell your kidney, BS, I would $$ my kidney in a heartbat to save a life. if Interested contact 36life@live.com
Okie…thank you for removing taht irritating spam. :)
Reply @Jessica #73:
As of now, I read somewhere that the govt is looking at what’s to be compensated for those who’ve donated at least one kidney in the past. But whether that is considered “sale of kidney’ remains to be seen.
Consider it not twice but thrice! Because you only have one kidney to live on and you won’t be able to get your sold/donated kidney back, in the event that other family member needs. To think through VERY carefully before you sell/donate your kidney and the best of luck (God bless!) if you decide to do so.
No doubt, it’s easier to sell an organ than to give an organ away.
Ah, more geniuses and future Nobel prize winners I see all gathered together.
First of all, some idiot here compared selling your own organs to selling your kids, saying it’s a slippery slope.
First off, this is comparing apples to buicks. Your kidney is not a living thinking person, and you by default own your own organs, you don’t own other people, so this argument is specious and completely ridicules. Selling people is slavery, selling organs is not even close to the same thing. Also, this practice goes on, and always will I guess, whether you, or I sell our organs or not. One has nothing to to with the other. I can see comparing two things that you feel are equally taboo, but some on, they are not even in the same ball park, for the above reasons stated.
One person stated that there would be a rise in black market kidnapings and thefts of human organs. This is an urban legend, and will happen more in an “illegal” atmosphere, not in a legal one, which increases supply, and lowers the cost, making something illegal actually raises it’s cost. If it were made legal, logic would dictate that such things would never happen, since you can’t simply walk into a legal donation center, if any such exist, and say “Here’s a cooler with a kidney, give me 10 G’s”. Whoever the genius was who thought this argument up, well, is no genius.
Someone named Jill, wrote something similar, saying she did not “think” a dubious word in this persons case, that making something legal would prevent a black market.
Hmm, well Jill, if it is made legal in that country, yes it will. If it is made legal in America but not in say, Yugoslavia, than no, it would not prevent a black market in Yugoslavia, that’s true. However, Jill, if you had actually thought before you wrote your post, you’d realize that making it legal will indeed shut down virtually all black market activities in this area. How so? Glad you asked.
A, prices are set, or there is a system in place to calculate value. Regulations are set in place, hence supply goes way up. It is supply that causes the black market, or more accurately the lack thereof which creates the illegal trade. Satisfy the demand, and there is no longer any profit in black market activities.
Now come the bleeding heart liberals, the people who’s only interest is your interest. Of course these same people are sitting at home, relaxed and comfortable, whilst you suffer. “OH poor you, I am protecting you from being used an abused”. LOL, get a life bleeding heart.
First off, if you really cared about this persons plight, give them some money, or pay their heat, or donate to a homeless shelter, money or time. What you don’t do though is interject what you feel is your more “sound” judgment into the lives and decisions of others. Poor doesn’t mean stupid, and it annoys me when someone thinks they are morally superior to the point that they can arbitrate right and wrong on a mass scale, or my own small personal one. Say I do wish to sell my Kidney for 10 grand. Personally I wouldn’t take less than a million, but you see my point. Who exactly are you to say I am being used, abused, or in need of protection. You stop me from finding a way to support me or my family, but satisfy your conscience by saying “there is a better way.” Of course you the do gooder, so you think, doesn’t help me find that better way.
The Liberal is always about a better way, about ideals, about moral superiority, but when it comes to solutions, oh well, there are better ones, but you just don’t know what they are. Money, sure, you gonna give me some?
You see the problem here folks, is that you are choosing to stick your long, set in stone noses into morally ambiguous waters, where a single argument holds very little if any sand. People vary, as do their needs and reasons. You can’t apply one solution to a million different problems, and call yourself superior, or right in any way shape or form, what hubris, what arrogance.
I read yet another response from someone saying that there are other ways to help the poor, that if we just teach our children better, and to be more compassionate, than things will change. Anyone see the problem in this weak, ill thought out, non specific dribble? It sounds good, but it solves nothing. I don’t see a solution here. You can teach compassion until it is coming out of your eyeballs. Unless your willing to turn your garage into a soup kitchen, donate half your wealth to build homes and training programs,a nd everyone else does the same. I mean really, the government in the USA has spent so much money on the war in Iraq, to free people who didn’t want freedom, that we could have used that same money to buy each and every homeless person in America their own house. That’s right folks, do the math yourself, it’s scary. Therefore, until you have an actual solution, don’t bad mouth the options that people actually do have, or make it harder, by say making it illegal.
Than I read some other fool saying “How many kidney patients an really afford to buy a kidney”?
Duh, hello, why would you think that voluntary donation from suckers who would give away a piece of themselves for nothing, while everyone else is profiting, is going to go away? There are far to many nit wits who want to imagine they are a hero for being used as suckers. Making selling legal would simply bolster and likely solve the supply problem, that’s all. Some of is are well aware of the pain, as well as sever life time health problems that can come from giving and organ. Better to sell it and have money to pay for the health care you, the sucker, likely will need.
I would not recommend selling a kidney though, livers can grow back, at least in part, kidneys, no. Yes folks, in most cases the liver grows back almost fully, if not fully, kidneys, sorry no re growth. Liver operations are more risky though.
Anyhow, to end my post, I of course think it should be legal. For one, to remove the onus from it. Two, to give a hand up to those who have no other choice. Let’s face it, in these dog eat dog times, more people have fewer choice. Also, it would be safer, and regulated, any illegal trade is less so now.
I also think many here have no conception of the black market trade and how it works. There isn’t much anonymous coolers being handed off and bought. You still need a doctor, and in most cases a hospital, to do these operations. On the surface most illegal transactions seem perfectly legal, with the illegal negotiating having happened behind closed doors. All that would change is that more people would be able to do it, and therefore supply would go up. It would also destroy the part of the trade, where it was made legal that is, that uses clinics set up in jungles by disgraced unlicensed doctors. This is th part of the black market that is really dangerous, poorly set up facilities that put peoples lives in danger. In making selling your organs illegal, you morally superior geniuses actually help these oafs make money.
Yes, do feel good that you have cast down the practice as loathsome and evil, though you really now can’t say why, since most of your arguments now lie in ruin. Logic seems greatly wanting here, with only a few people of even average intellect. It does indeed sicken me how many stupid people interject their mind numbingly useless thoughts thinking they are actually contributing.
@Knowledgeable @75 quoted,”I of course think it should be legal. For one, to remove the onus from it. Two, to give a hand up to those who have no other choice. Let’s face it, in these dog eat dog times, more people have fewer choice. Also, it would be safer, and regulated, any illegal trade is less so now.”
Yes, I fully agree with that too. And you are also right, kidneys cannot be grown back naturally except to be cloned. (I somehow shiver when I think of what cloning means!)
Someone else asked,”How many kidney patients can really afford to buy a kidney?”
haha Have a look at the Forbes Magazine to see how many of top millionaires can afford one (even in times of this global recession).
It’s alright Knowledgeable – about the “useless thoughts people interject thinking they’re contributing”. There are always gurus and students everywhere! Someone is always around to correct or clarify the info.
I happened to browsed through the youtube about HOTA which leads me to have discovered an untold family greiving true life incident that had taken place here in our govt hospital dated back 27Feb2007.
Read Organ Robbery at: http://matrixisland.blogspot.com/search/label/Organ%20Robbery and http://matrixisland.blogspot.com/2007/02/aftermath-of-organ-robbery.html
This is really disgusting and this news were not even mentioned on the MSM, at least not that I know of till today of such horrible incident taking place here at our SGH.
@Tiredsingaporean I am aware of that news and video too. I too had the same thought. The ‘robbery’ is one thing. Here’s more bad news!
It’s food, vaccinations, cosmetics, donated organs that one needs to be afraid of because
#1. hidden toxics are still in everyday foods
#2. there’s mercury in modern vaccinations (to preserve them)
#3. sick diseased animals get rendered (recycled) as herbivore feed and into some cosmetics so creams/gels slide on ‘effortlessly”
How good are organs when scientists are able to genetically clone them and modify them? I shudder at these thoughts!
And perhaps the biggest scam even bigger than NKF’s? You were programmed to believe that cancer has NO CURE! Go to Amazon.com to look for books on cancer cure. How many of you are lied to that cancer has no cure – only control? They say the same thing for everything from cancer, constipation, diabetes, heart diseases to pimples – NO CURE ONLY CONTROL! READ THIS (just one of the many sources about Cancer) —-> http://www.cancertruth.net/faq.html (No, this is not my site!)
Yes, I and my family were under THAT kind of control but knowing the truth has set us free. We are no longer taking meat – the major cause of diseases and global warming.
Knowing what lies we’ve been fed, we now no longer support Cancer Research. I find I also recover faster from colds and flu than those who see their doctors for anti-biotics,
Feel free to connect with me – http://www.Twitter.com/qutequte —> the same network that Obama was on before he got elected.
I can sell my plasma, my sperm, donate blood. A woman can sell her eggs and even rent out her uterus. Why should I not be allowed to sell one of my kidneys or a piece of my liver? I can donate all of them before I die. Why not better my life in the process, after all I am risking my life and more than likely shortening it. Think of the things that an average person could do with an extra 20-30 grand. Pay off bills, buy a car, go to school, downpayment for a house, who knows. But it will definently help! You say that being able to sell your organs will cause people to take them by force. If it is legal there will be strict rules and regulations governing it. Making it so you wont be able to get a black market organ. In the long run it could eliminate the demand the black market has for organs. You say that only the rich will be able to afford to get the transplants, so keep it so that organs that are donated after a person dies go to available candidates free! That’s basically how it is now anyways. I’m an organ donor but I’m not going to donate them till I die or someone I know needs one. There could even be a Charity organized to match donors and pay them for donating. You will save a lot of lives and get a lot more organs to the people that need them if you could sell your organs.
I got troubles to move along,although I am a talent man, I am in a bloody need of money, and I could not find other ways to get financed, need to sell my organs, kidney or any part of my body, my email address is tcp_007@hotmail.com
As soon as possible please.
I am a 40 year old female who is willing to donate plasma or kidney my blood type is a+. Please email me back at tlynnskinner@yahoo.com if interested. please only serious inquires.
I’m Asian, 50, 5’11″, 145, black hair, brown eyes, athletic build, no medical history, in Florida. Please put me in contact with private organ donation agents.
Hi, how are u , i am male 29 , sound health . I want to sell my kidney.
Never smoke , never drink.
A+ blood
as soon as possible
006126270197
thanks
hello,i want to sell my kidney,b coz i have to solve all my parent’s problems,if any kind person needs plz.contact me on my email- ar05405@gmail.com my contact no.is 09999414612
hai my blood group is B+
All are karmas,
remember for a small unknowing mistake there is huge punishment after death according to gauruda puranam and other epics.
If we do such a massacre to people without kindness on fellow mankind try to visulaise the intensity of the punishment.Never even think of hurting anyone
human organe my self for sale
my human organes for sale
i whant sale any organs from my boby please respond my today any money to save my family please
for sale any parts in my body to save my family call me or email me (805) 660-6636 mestorez@yahoo.com thanks good bless you please
i need save my family please i whant sale every organ in my body to protect my family please max
25yrs old A+ healthty kidney.email me at kinakia1986@yahoo.com for those interested.
Quero negociar um figado ou um rin, dificuldade financeira , contato:
085 88540045 085 34720188
Fort – Ceará LEONARDO
marcar exames e combinar preço
30% , antes dos exames e confirmação positiva , 70% ao marcar a cirurgia
deixando o valor depositado em conta corrente BRADESCO
Quero negociar um figado ou um rin, dificuldade financeira , contato:
085 88540045 085 34720188
Fort – Ceará LEONARDO
marcar exames e combinar preço
30% , antes dos exames e confirmação positiva , 70% ao marcar a cirurgia
deixando o valor depositado em conta corrente BRADESCO R$ 200.000,00