I still remember the song i used to sing when i was in primary school,”Five stars arising,out of the stormy sea…”!The significance of these stars represent the common people,the man on the street,here’s how to break ti down into minute details!

* Democracy – In any state or republic,the people hold the power,not the government,even when it comes to elections,without the votes of the people,no one could be a minister or president for that matter!It doesn’t exist in Spore,sad to say but true!

* Peace – Getting along well with one another,regardless of race,language or religion,no discrimination amongst races,the local populace have a common problem,peace exists on a superficial level,once its broken down into nitty-gritty details,everyone wants war!

* Progress – A word that most people do not like,then again,without progression,Spore would not have flourished all these years,albeit for a tropical island,yes,i do have to admit,Spore has indeed come a long way!No doubt about that fact!

* Justice – To do what is fair & just in the laws implemented by the policymakers who determine what is right & wrong,even when there are shades of grey,meaning when rules bent or even broken,its up to the law enforcement to decipher if that is against the law!Though the system is not perfect,there’s plenty of room for improvement.

*Equality – Treating your fellow human being the one & the same,no double-standards involved,no favoritism,no divided loyalties,zilch to treating different races!In Spore,there is no equality!!!Really,who am i kidding?

James Michael Parthi.

Hi The Dark Knight,

‘Progress’ : it really has many meanings. From what you describe, seems like only 1 aspect – economic.

Sad.

No flame the me hor .

no Democracy. no peace,no progress, no justice and no equality

To me, everything have its meaning.
First, you need to know that there are many standard, interpretation of symbols.
There are symbols for philosophical meaning like the ying yang.
Then there is symbolism in occults.
Also colours also represented certain properties:
So if you take design and you can try to call it anything but there are certain symbols that have their symbolic meaning to it.
I do urged all of you to check out “Jordan Maxwell” in explaining the symbols of many internationally used.

5 pointed stars: quote from wikipesia:
The five-pointed star, if drawn with points of equal length and angles of 36° at each point, is sometimes termed a golden five pointed star.[2] If the colinear edges are joined together a pentagram is produced, which is the simplest of the unicursal star polygons, and a symbol of mystical and magical significance.

The golden five-pointed star is a very common ideogram in the western world, and has particularly strong associations with military power and war. Many communist countries (such as China and Vietnam) and symbols (the hammer and sickle) also incorporate five-pointed stars.

What does that tells you about our 5 stars?

Wikipedia: The star and crescent
“The star and crescent historically was a symbol of the Ottoman Empire, but later became associated with Islam in general. Now its popularity among Muslims makes it comparable to the Christian cross and the Star of David. A number of Muslim-majority nations, such as Pakistan and Algeria, and non-sovereign nations such as East Turkestan use it on their national flag, inspired by the flag of Turkey officially adopted in 1844.”
Those Islamic Countries used only single star.

So obviously this design tried to make Islamic countryman feel at home.

But on the occult side of views, 5 pointed Stars also related to the Freemon symbol. Since our flag is not single star, so obviously it is not an Islamic symbols.

So the only interpretation is those stars represent Freemasonry signs.
Research on “Freemason” please.

As for Red, in Wikipedia:

Red Symbolizes:
Passion, strength, energy, fire, love, sex, excitement, speed, heat, arrogance, ambition, leadership, masculinity, power, danger, gaudiness, blood, war, anger, revolution, radicalism, socialism, communism, aggression, summer, autumn, stop, Mars (planet), respect, Aries (star sign), December, the Roman Catholic Church, martyrs, the Holy Spirit, conservatism (U.S. politics).

Studies show that red can have a physical effect, increasing the rate of respiration and raising blood pressure; red also is said to make people hungry; the red ruby is the traditional 40th wedding anniversary gift.Red is also the color of the devil in modern Western culture.

Note the last statement.

I will not add my interpretation to it. Please study carefully what they means.
I can only provide you with the possibility of the real meaning.
Remember, we are not (or no longer) a “Chinese” society, so RED no longer symbolized Positive aspect of it.

You draw your own conclusion please.
Do check out my Channel in Youtube:
Please kindly awaken yourself.
There are many sinister things happening in the world especially in USA.
You Singaporean still do not know about it AT ALL!
Follow the white rabbit and you ill find the “wonderland” of the real world around you. Once awake, you will never go back to sleep again.
Drop me an email if you really want to know more.

kwangeng_lee@yahoo.com

P.S. There will be soon martial law to be declare in USA once the economic have a total collapse about the end of this year or so, and because of the there will be civil war. Many will try to flee away from that country and conveniently Singapore predicted that we will have an increase of population to 6 mil.
This is just a little about what I already know.
Disclaimer:
Please do not believe me, do your own research.
I am not spreading rumor, I just mention my personal feeling about the situation.
I probably wrong. So go back to sleep.

Cheers

my friend used his pc A and tried to leave a comment to an article here. After submitting the commen (using the button below) it did not appear.

So, he used another computer pc B and did the same, it went through.

My friend had posted before using pc A but not B . He suspects that somehow using his pc A his posts are automatically ‘quarantined’.

After some time, his posting done via pc A did appear fortunately.

I am not wise enough to figure out what is happening and why this blog behaves like this.

Sad. freedom of airspresso.

regards
yesman

i remember all my school songs, army songs, foreign national songs and dozens other. But i dont remember the pledge or our national anthem :/ not a blink on the stars either. ah well

No democracy – Upgrading carrot in opposition WP wards using people’s money

No peace – Mas Selamat still at large

No progress – Bottom 20% wages stagnant for last 10 years

No justice – SDP and protestors hard to get legal representation

No equality – An elitist country, what can I say?

Here’s what I just realised.

With the crescent moon at the base, you will see a smiling face with the stars resembling dollars.

With the cresent moon at the top, one will see a ghastly picture of despair.

Democracy achieved through authoritarianism

Peace achieved with unjust laws

Progress achieved by hampering the vast majority

Justice achieved via manipulation

Equality achieved in words only

The true meaning of these five values can only materialise through a change of the present.

Hi everyone,

Ok, we know that we disagee with what the govt or the PAP has done. But what do you wish for the stars to mean? In your own definition. For exmaple: What do you think democracy should mean for us here in S’pore? Same for the rest – peace, progress, justice and equality.

The point here is to re-define what the stars mean, instead of just criticising what the govt wants it to mean or what it does not mean.

Thanks.

Dear poris state,

Can you tell me which article your friend tried to post his comments under? And which nickname or handle he used. I will try and see if his comments are caught in the spam folder.

Thank you.

In place of the tainted, here are the new values.

Star for a more equitable future for all Singaporeans.

Star for a government formed without manipulation of the electorate.

Star for a country that puts its citizens as its prized possession.

Star for a government that takes good care of its less priviledged citizens and the elderly.

Star for a less materialistic country with common shared values among all its people.

These values will take the nation to the next level of shared progress.

RH:
1. The 5 stars in our flag actually stand for the 5 Aims of Govt which I enunciated in my comment/article url below. I quote Para 14 of it :

” 14. Thus, the LIEgime has only 5 aims of govt. First, to entrench and further the LIE family stranglehold on power and to increase that power without limit so as to control every aspect of work and life in Singapore. Second, to LOOK GOOD always — an obsession — even if this is only surface or cosmetic. Third, as regards the economy, to produce high GDP numbers. Fourth, to produce huge budget surpluses. This means decades of unremitting, relentless, Overtax and Underspend policies, overtaxing exorbitantly on everything possible, especially HDB housing, car taxes [both giving many, many, multiples of profit or rather, profiteering], GST, etc, while underspending on everything else except the military, which always has the biggest budget allocations. Thus, Singaporeans are overtaxed in every way possible and imaginable while spending on heathcare, education, the poor, etc, are all shortchanged. The budget surpluses are not enough apparently, so in order to create even bigger and more impressive Reserves and SWF [Fifth goal], Singaporeans CPF are withheld to make the Reserves bigger. Thus, Singaporeans have little access to and cannot even withdraw their own monies because the LIEgime wants it in its own kitty. CPF was as much as 40% of every worker salary and bonus OVER HIS LIFETIME CAREER, now slightly less. Thus, ‘managing by/for results’, which is pretty legitimate, became bastardised, like everything else, to become ‘managing by numbers’, further bastardised to ‘managing FOR [GDP] numbers’. Thus, the economy is constructed mainly to score high GDP numbers and the easiest way is to massively import foreigners — preferably rich — but practically, mostly cheap labour, since millionaires or FTs cannot be imported in numbers for various reasons. This explains why the LIEgime bends over backwards [this time] to play nice to all foreigners. It also explains why there is such an unbelievable tidal wave of foreigners in Singapore, the Third Wave in my essay. ”
http://i-came-i-saw-i-solved-it.blogspot.com/2008/06/iconoclassing-pt-2.html

Andrew, I agree with the values represented by each star and most citizens have good understanding of values needed for the country to progress.

We seem to forget about the crescent embracing the 5 stars. Somehow I view the position of the crescent on the left as representing the sly smile of the government laughing with all the money.

The crescent should be positioned below the 5 stars, representing the smile of a nation when all the 5 values are realised.

In 1965, those values were something to strive for but not necessarily implemented.

I grew up believing those values but realised that it was not tobe.

My feelings toward these values can be best illustrated by what happened to me 4 yeras ago as well as the earlier part of my life.

About 40 years ago, I was in primary school saying the pledge without realising it.

How could I ? I was only 7.,

Then a few years later in Primary 6, I got treated differently in my class by my form teacher

Again I was naive.

When I turned 18, i was in National Service, again my OC treated me differently.

This time I knew what it was. Both of us were Singaporeans but from different races. There was also the SAF Act and court marial

When I turned 25, I was entering the job market.

It was my race to deny my application.

After 21 months and 135 applications I got a dead end job.

I struggled from job to job from then on.

Finally I got one and decided to start a family.

Eight years ago , the vicious circle started again and this time it was getting more and more painful

My age as well as my race was clearly reasons to deny my application this time around.

Everybody pushed me to see my MP and I did it stupidly.

In 2004, I took the biggest gamble of my life.

I left Singapore.

Leaving behind my wife and two young children.

I went to a place where they looked at how I can do things irregardless of race, language (English) or religion.

They liked it and hired me.

I stayed on applied for permanent residence.

Now four years later I get paid enough for a house and a car.

I am still a minority here but nobody is allowed by law to discriminate you and there is a department ,just take up your complaint.

The next question will be the day I will return home.

Right now, It will be never never again.

How can I sincerely say I am proud to be a Singaporean?

RH: Dear 13, nice point, ha3
1. I was an advertising copywriter some dozen years and therefore worked on some pr and ad projects similar to this 5 stars [values] and ‘meaning of the flag’ conjobs.

2. LIE KY is such a copycat [everything he thought and did is copied from somewhere, mostly HK] that he also copied Western preoccupation with pr and ad agencies ‘SPIN’. Thus, when you read a beautiful phrase or even entire speech, which contradicts his actions then or later, he is merely reading from some ghostwritten speech, including some by Alex Josey. Same for nice soundbites.

3. Thus, LIE preoccupation with Looking Good, through SPIN. Enough to make us all giddy. Also, in the old, old, days that seem ages ago, before the Age of Internet Enlightenment, leaders thought it important to ‘lead’, that is, to ‘rally’, to ‘mobilise’ their people [LIE KY said "enthuse"], hence such pr efforts like setting meanings to the meaningless, like flags and ‘national values’, etc.

4. Today, all this is passe. Our young have long become cynical, mostly through overexposure to such, plus their bad implementation, since the entire LIEgime edifice only pay lip service to any lofty ideals, which they contradict with their daily words and deeds, especially deeds. But LIE KY dies hard, so still alive and insisting he is infallible and knows everything, best. So all this shit will continue, even as they become totally unbelievable, meaningless and most of all, IRRELEVANT to our lives and Age. Little kids will still be impressed and continue to recite the compulsory Pledge and sing the compulsory Song, but outgrow all these the moment they older.

5. Meanwhile, in an Age of Beautiful and Clever DESIGNS surrounding us everywhere we look, the Flag looks pathetically poor in design even as the Song looks pathetically lousy and unfit even as a jingle for a detergent. Indeed, almost every song we hear now, from ad jingles to any CantoPop out of HK, will grab our ears in a way the Song cannot.

6. Thus, all these national songs and symbols have lost their meaning and their worth. Like LIE KY himself, the biggest symbol of them all. All totally Irrelevant to where we are going and want to go. All these should have been retired long ago. They are anachronisms.

The 5 stars on our flag signified very high noble values and vitues which all Singaporeans should strived for. However, with a government which only pay lip service to these noble ideals, I notice many Singaporeans are disillusioned by such hypocracy. They became cynical. How to built a nation when you don’t treat your own citizens with fairness and respect ? In Australia they have this concept of a fair go for everyone. When will the pap government ever learn to govern in the national interest ?

Democracy – have meh ?? let me vote first lah, alway manipulate the election rules … hypocrite.

* Peace – what peace ??? u mean peace for elite uncaring face leader with million dollars. u people rest in peace six feet under better lah.

* Progress – progress for money face leader only, not for the people under them. u go and ask the cleaner in foodcourt & old folks who lan lan still have to work cos moneyface leader would not want to take care of them. progress economically but without a heart for the citizen. balls you.

Justice – please lah, got money & power then have justice.

Equality – with the above 4 factors [deleted], who cares about equality. [deleted] !!!

continue with national day celebration — fake display !!!!

Comments edited by moderator.

Hi Andrew,

To me, the words mean:

Democracy – Its about the Freedom to vote for who you think should get voted. Its about the Chance given to Vote, not that anyone is robbed of the chance to vote. It should be based on justice to achieve Accountability and Transparency. Would you choose to advise, Is this achieved already ? How 1st world is the system so far? I have no idea.

Peace – Its about how not to piss off neighbors. Its about how to provide a Solution so that Freedom of expression and freedom of assembly can be enjoyed and conducted in a peaceful manner . “Youtube video : “Speakers Cornered” is a real sad story.

Progress – Economic success is merely one of the indicators of Progress , to a 1st world citizen. People should not live in fear, not that anyone is living in fear.

Justice – There should be a fairer system for people to do make their ’selection’.
Mas Selamat should be brought to justic and captured asap and ideally without the need to use a bounty. Its into the half a YEAR mark now. Those incompetent of showing Accountability must be dealt with and held answerable to the PEOPLE. This is basic accountability.

Equality – There should not be any double standards, not that there is any ;) . The traffic condition at Causeway should be improved using what is tauted to be solutions that work in reducing congestion. The more vehicles come in, the more congestion, thus the reason used for planting an ERP gantry, in the main roads and the more accidents and pollution. Its for the environment and the people coming into sg and going into MY, since its said to be a good thing.

disclaimer : I am only giving my neutral opinion. Please don’t put me into the spam folder. Peace.

from magazine “SPRING” Jul/aug 2008 copy:
“Why is the National flag red and white, with 5 stars and 1 crescent?”

4 primary school students say..
-becoz they represent something
-i think its becoz of the lion, becoz they stand for some symbols about singapore
-becoz red is for good luck. there are 5 stars for 5 working days. and becoz the crescent looks like a banana
-the 5 stars represent the 5 races

It is time the flag and pledge be changed to reflect the reality of Singapore Inc.
Replace all stars by $ sign, and the moon by the mouth of PAP who devour the money.

The value of the country replaced by economic growth and $$$. Singapore Inc and dictatorship has replaced the country, and why is those flag and pledge still happily there to mislead the people ?

These are what the five values represent to me…

Democracy – fair elections, level playing field, one man one vote. such that the government is truly the people’s choice. this also includes all that comes with democracy, things like freedom of expression and speech and assembly.

Peace – safe streets, safe environment. no strife, either internal or external.

Progress – not resting on our laurels, constantly developing the country as a whole with one goal in mind: the betterment of the people.

Justice – a Brave and Independent Judiciary, a fair balance between public policy and justice. A country where there is rule of law, and not rule by law. No one is above the law, and no one is below it. this applies to everyone submitted to our jurisdiction.. including people that tends to fall through the gaps like maids, foreign labourers, poor people.

equality – every one is equal. not just meritocracy, but also recognizing the fact that some people do need more help than others. closely linked to justice, imo.

Previously, to me, the five stars represented the five key/significant leaders:

Dr Toh Chin Chye, the Architect of PAP’s and Singapore’s political successes.
Dr Goh Keng Swee, the Architect of Singapore’s Economic successes.
S Rajarathnam, the Architect of Singapore’s Foreign Relations’ successes.
Devan Nair, the Architect of Singapore’s Labour and Trade Unions’ successes.
and, of course, the then Prime Minister, Lee Kuan Yew.

Now, to me, the five stars represent the following personalities:

MM Lee Kuan Yew – represents Justice.
PM Lee Hsien Loong – represents Progress.
PM’s second wife, Ho Ching – represents Prosperity.
PM’s brother, Lee Hsien Yang – represents Equality.
PM’s sister, Lee Wei Ling – represents Democracy.

The way I regard the five stars:
1. Democracy – No one is to be sued to bankruptcy in the political platform.
2. Peace – Inner peace cannot be exploited. Organ trading should be banned.
3. Progress – Not at the expense of lossing a healthy mind and soul.
4. Justice – Poor or Powerful people in the eye of Justice must be treated justly.
5. Equality – Policy making applies to all regardless of race or religion. No preference is to be given to special groups – the policymaker, the leader or the boss or anyone in position.

[...] years, from nation to multinational – TOC: The 5 stars of our flag – Princess from the Planet of Venupitarius: A made-in-Singapore movie to celebrate Singapore [...]

Take a look at the older coins and compare them with the newer ones. You notice that the five stars/values and the crescent moon, one held aloft by the lion and the tiger have been pushed down. Also, the arch on which the words Majulah Singapura appear hasbeen replaced by a sagging bridge. Who changed the national crest? Why was it changed? Only in Singapore can the national crest be changed without a national referendum!!!

To me the spirit of it is lost…… I don’t feel proud anymore.

National Day is but another show for the ruling party to boast their empty achievements, void of soul and lacking in spirit about leading the people and serving. In fact, it has become a sad day, not because I don’t agree with alot of what they are doing, but sad because we are not the same people anymore.
It’s a utter waste of money and resources to have countless ‘rehearsals’, costly fireworks weeks on end before the actual day. Wassup with that? Which other 1st world country (or any world) does that? Who’s paying for the extravagance?

In the 60’s, the people where behind the country. Now, the country has left the people behind.

Hi The SS,

We share the same wavelength on many issues.

What else can I say ….

What to do? Its happened.
Lets close ranks and
Move on.

5 Stars represents car, condo, chiobus, courage and confidence, They are all stars and the nearest one to us is abt 100 billion light years away. cannot even smell it. Maybe version 2.2 superman can, only he can fly faster than a speeding bullet, ppl like me have to make do with just star gazing. Sometimes if I gaze hard enough I even manage a dream, but when I wake up….the nightmare starts all over again.

5 stars mean that Singapore is going to be very expensive for Singaporeans (except for the millionaire ministers and the riches).

democracy – I would wish Singaporean are able to vote during election time.In addition, Singaporean are able to vote with confidence the right party to government Singapore. This mean that Singapore Opposition Parties must have enough candidates (about 84) and must be able to find good quality candidates on par with PAP. With this condition, I am sure I will be able to vote wisely.

peace – I enjoy the present state of Singapore, where there is Zero terrorist attack, peacful environment. I hope this will continue for many years to come.

progress – Not only Singapore progress, but every individual must progress. I wish to see every Singporean have enough money to retire and live thru their old age.

justice – The Every individual are given equal opportunity to work, play, study and live their life in Singapore.

equality – Racical harmony continue to progress in Singapore.

You should read Mr S Rajaratnam’s interview with Shin Min in which he explains how the Singapore flag came about -
the original idea was a red flag but that was rejected as too “communist”
the Indonesian flag was the red on white and this was viewed as being more appropriate. The crescent was inserted for the Malays/Muslims and the five stars for China

You are a real goondu, mr Goodu.

The assumption is that PAP=peace+progress+justic+equality.

But will this last forever if PAP is gone?

The TOC Poll indicates that the readers ranked the five values in the following order:

1. Democracy
2. Justice
3. Equality
4. Peace
5. Progress

My intepretation is that Singaporeans are quite happy with Peace and Progress, but feel that we need to improve our values of Democracy, Justice and Equality.

I have writtten an article a few weeks ago, to be published in TOC soon. It also rank the values in this order. Look out for my article.

Looking at how some of the arguments are articulated, I can’t help wondering how many people who claim to want democracy, justice, and equality truly believe in these values. And how many are using it as a means of upsurping the PAP.

The motivations are very different.

To me, the 5 stars would stand for the 5 groups that form the essence of our nation:

The Leaders – the politicians, the top civil servants, who holds the reins of power, for better or worse.

The Elite – the rich and the powerful, the minority in Singapore holding the majority of the wealth

The Foreigners – from highly paid CEOs to manual laborers, they are everywhere.

The Heartlanders – the average to poorer Singaporean who’s struggling to survive in the midst of soaring costs.

The Investors – the mobile dollar that helped transform our nation. GST can increase, but corporate taxes must fall – because most Singaporeans can’t run away, but the investors can.

In my opinion, it is the balance of the needs, the interests and the hopes of these 5 that determines if we can stay harmoniously together while moving ahead as a nation – more so than any abstract concepts of democracy, justice or equality.

1. Democracy
2. Justice
3. Equality
4. Peace
5. Progress

Wow – the National Education aka propaganda really worked and so many people are regurgitating the hogwash.

The elements of the national flag has nothing to do with values and everything to do with survival of the nation. Born in uncertain times, the national flag has to kowtow to our neighbours – to treat them as big brothers so that little red-dot little brother can be left alone to prosper.

The red and white background is borrowed from Indonesia. The crescent moon is to appease our Muslim neighbours. And the 5 stars is complete rip-off from China. There you have it – we have genuflex to all our giant neighbours.

We are not alone in playing this game. Malaysia’s flag is a copy of Uncle Sam’s.

How about drawing out the real desire this way:

Which of the one of these 2 values:
a) Peace
b) Progress
would you exchange of one of these 3:
i) Democracy
ii) Justice
iii) Equality

serene,

Why is there a need to exchange these 2 values? Can you enlighten us?

It seems to be that there is a confusion about two issues:
(A) which 1 of the 5 values matters most and,
(B) given the current state of affairs, which one of the values does one want more

For me,
(A) Peace matters most to me (regardless if it is already very peaceful now)
(B) Progress is what I want to see more now in such flaky economy

I hope you see my point =)

Hmm… talking about democracy and freedom of speech at TOC.

I posted the following comment at 9:30 today to the article “Hear the thundering herds and sniff the wind” by Adrian Tan. But it never appeared and is even superseded by a commented posted later (by Harrison)

=== quote
Singapore and China aren’t the only sovereign wealth funds:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_wealth_fund

And American banks aren’t just approaching Singapore and China:

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/508219-sovereign-funds-in-spotlight-as-us-banks-come-calling
=== unquote

Hi serene,

but you need democracy, justice and equality to achieve progress and peace. They are the basis on which the two others can succeed.

and don’t trust me, it’s what the national pledge says:

to build a democratic society,
based on justice and equality,
so as to achieve happiness, prosperity and
progress for our nation.

Thanks, I realize that’s what the pledge says too.

This is what’s going in my mind. Given two possible worlds:

(A) One where there is no war, no bloodshed, no need to fear of death, but also absolutely no say in governance.

and

(B) One where people can always exert their influence on the government and different faction of people are fairly represented. But also one where opposing forces do not reconcile, and so resulting in civil unrest or even war.

I prefer to live in world (A) over world (B).

serene,
why live in your own-make believe world, why not give a choice C too ? Do you really believe propaganda shit that show on TV or MSM ? Don’t you realize our government love to advertise Singapore at expense of other countries by showing the worst of other nations. Surely you know that TV and MSM are mouthpiece of the ruling party ? If so, why still believe it and limit your choice ?

42) serene on August 1st, 2008 8.12 am

I would prefer A and B together but not the part on “so resulting in civil unrest or even war.”. Things lke these are not strictly mutually exclusive. Unfortunately, a lot of us are too “conditioned” that this is so by regular flow of subtle messages.

No one in the right frame of mind would want chaos and unrest in their own country – it benefits no one.

I suppose Thailand is more democratic than China, while the latter is more peaceful than the former. Thailand or China? I pick China.

Thanks for bring up the point. My worlds are hypothetical. But what I’m try to say is that among all the 5 values, I treasure Peace most.

The question about which aspect of Singapore I would like to improve now is a different question from what is most important (i.e. previous question). In this case, it’ll be Progress since I feel insecure about the economy now.

I agree that Democracy is lacking in Singapore, but this will become my priority for improvement after the economic conditions are more stable.

45) timothy on August 1st, 2008 10.56 am

“I suppose Thailand is more democratic than China, while the latter is more peaceful than the former. Thailand or China? I pick China.”

Do not speak so soon. China has a history of revolutions which have come in a very serious manner (in a bang) – itself are chaotic self-correcting events. Good and bad events manifest itself in different periods and sometimes we are born in a “window” period seeing certain events happening to different places – which may well switch places in an entirely different time. That is life and nothing is permanent.

46) serene on August 1st, 2008 11.31 am

“I agree that Democracy is lacking in Singapore, but this will become my priority for improvement after the economic conditions are more stable.”

Funny leh. When economic conditions are more stable, people have the tendency / inertia of wanting the status quo and keeping it that way (e.g if it ain’t broke, why fix it).

Any when economic conditions are not so stable, their priority is for improvement only after the economic conditions are more stable. What a way to win-win-win and win again (head I win, tail you lose).

@ serene

Democracy should be the priority for Singapore if you want to see improvement to the economy and progress for the ordinary folks. The top 20% will be happy with the status quo because the system is benefitting them the most.

The lack of democracy has allowed a spineless PM to lead uninspiring blokes like WKS, Mah B T, Lim HK, Lim BH, Lim Swee Say, Ng Eng Hen, Vivian B, etc,etc,etc. Screwed up leadership = screwed up policies = ?????????

Better leadership means less screwed up policies and better management of our reserves.

The five stars on our flag represent the values of democracy, peace, progress, justice and equality. What do these mean for you?

Well, they mean nothing in the practical sense. It’s like what they paint on the walls of schools; means nothing to the students.

What matters is how they manifest in real life, in what citizens see and feel for themselves. Show the flag to the someone who hasn’t benefited from the nation’s progress and see if it consoles him.

The 5 stars on our flag represent the values WE DO NOT HAVE.

@Serene

(A) One where there is no war, no bloodshed, no need to fear of death, but also absolutely no say in governance.

What makes you think that authoritarianism will guarantee stability? One danger of authoritarianism is the lack of check and balance and concentration of state power in the hands of a few or even just one man. If the leader is wise, honest and capable, fair enough. But can you ensure that their subsequent successors that they will never abuse this unlimited power?

Ferdinand Macros used to be a honest politician but he slowly allowed himself to be consumed by greed and obsession for power.

Benevolent dictatorship may be the best form of government, but its one fatal flaw is how do you ensure that unlimited power won’t be abused?

@serene

I agree that Democracy is lacking in Singapore, but this will become my priority for improvement after the economic conditions are more stable.

But haven’t we always touted that we have successfully progressed from the “Third World to First”?

And after economic conditions are more stable, would you then turn around and say that there is no point rocking the boat?

(B) One where people can always exert their influence on the government and different faction of people are fairly represented. But also one where opposing forces do not reconcile, and so resulting in civil unrest or even war.

Can you tell us why stability and democracy are mutually exclusive? In fact both democracy and authoritarianism are capable of producing instability and disaster and the leaders decided to do the country in. Mugabe, Mobutu and Marcos did not produce progress; they created catastrophes instead. It seems preferable to have democracy in the long run because checks and balance would minimize the possibility of abuse of power in a developed and mature democracy with a vibrant middle class.

@timothy

I suppose Thailand is more democratic than China, while the latter is more peaceful than the former. Thailand or China? I pick China.

Then did Thailand become better after the 2006 coup produced a military-appointed government? Gen Surayud Chulanont proved to be an inept leader. Under the military-appointed govt, investors’ confidence plunged to a new low with the policy blunder of the capital controls and the chaotic opening of the Suvarnabhumi Airport.
So did a non-democratic government fare better? I doubt so.

As for China, you seem to forget the rampant corruption which traces its origins to the CCP’s monopoly of power and tight political control. Look at the collapsed school buildings due to the local party officials’ corruption. Why are they able to silenced the parents of the dead school children if not for political repression?

5 stars on the flag represent the 5 values of SIngapore – democracy, justice, equality, peace and progress. Now let’s examine whether they do exist here or not.

Democracy – We have 84 parliamentary seats but 82 of them are of PAP, 1 of WP and the other 1 of SDP. Govt’s tactics to win votes include ‘giving money’ to people just before elections, but later recovered them all through increase of taxes. You call this democracy?

Justice – NKF’s TT Durai shamed the entire Singapore with his corruption charges, yet only served under 1 yr of jail term. Mas Selamat’s escape shook the nation, but Wong Kan Seng, being minister for home affairs, NEED NOT step down. You call this justice?

Equality – Singapore citizens not preferred by firms for the same job offered to foreign talents, reason being not local talent. Govt remind people to upgrade so they upgrade, but doesn’t guarantee their jobs permanently. Can you upgrade yourself faster than the govt bringing in more foreign talents?

Peace – Multiple price hikes in the form of transport fares, including buses, MRTs and taxis – and recent fuel prices in the absence of wage increments left most people eating less for the same price. So the equation becomes: good economy = eat less.

Progress – Political progress? Nope, coz it’s still the same party running the country. Economic progress? Nope, coz we have worked so hard, contributed a lot to GDP, yet wages remained about the same. Social progress? Nope, coz there are still much vice in Geylang and Joo Chiat but police ain’t doing much, and recently got many cases of foreign workers fighting with locals.

What does it mean, selling out your own people?

Once upon a time, these 5 values are held so dearly to most Singaporeans. We had given all we had and all we can to achieve the essence of these values. We were almost there.

Today, I speak for myself. These values are all but meaningless. Neither one are of its true essence that it is supposed to be. It is beyond recognition. You do not feel a strong sense of belonging anymore. You generally felt something is amidst. Something we knew should have change for the better. Yet, time and again, we were somehow deprived and can only watch helplessly. Sad indeed(sigh)

The 5 stars on the flag then represent the values we would strive to achieve as a young nation. After 43 years of nation building, sadly most of those values are still as far away as the stars in the sky

Now no need values anymore, it is every man for himself.

In Singapore, the 5 stars represent money, money, money, money and more money…

The moon ?? Money also

[...] Jul 08 – TOC: The 5 stars of our flag – Princess from the Planet of Venupitarius: A made-in-Singapore movie to celebrate Singapore [...]

[...] years, from nation to multinational – TOC: The 5 stars of our flag – Princess from the Planet of Venupitarius: A made-in-Singapore movie to celebrate Singapore [...]

Five stars arising music and lyrics by Lim Su Chong. Red is not exactly the same as crimson. Lyrics in this song is “crimson is the blood of all mankind”. Crimson- the strong, bright, deep red blood which humans need to live and when we die our bodies become cold and pale.