The real danger of the Foreign Talent Sports scheme is that eventually, all of our national athletes will be foreign born, and will totally wiped out local born players. We may become world contenders inn table tennis, swimming, track & field, badminton, you name it you have it, but at the expense of totally writing off our local born players even if they have the potential since all money and resources will be spend on talent spotting overseas, and no attention paid to locals. This will be a self fulfilling prophecy that local talents does not made the grade. This, in time to come, will even spread to sports that we are already good at, and the next Team Singapore will be actually a Team “UN” or simply Team “China B”.

A Singapore without Singaporeans, it is now happening in Team Singapore.

I absolutely hate this policy. While our ministers ponder over whether the poor 80 year old lady deserves $300 or $400 per month in assistance, here we have our ministers pouring out millions to send top china women and coaches to Japan for a ‘retreat’ to help win a medal for Singapore.
It does not matter that Tan Howe Liang was born in China – he worked his butt and he is our hero. Now taxpayer’s money which the government says is not unlimited, cos we are not a welfare state – well, more of it will be spent on FT sportsmen over the next few years.
How many millions more? when does it stop?
In the mean time, schools are reluctant to open up new sports for the children because they are not ‘niche areas’ – students are told not to try out for sports where they are not likely to be national champion. We need a rethink at the highest level!

No matter how the ministers explain it , the victory will always be hollow for the true blue Singaporeans born and bred on this soil of ours. Even here you can see the clinical pragmatism of the party that governs this country. Rather then betting on a green horn Singaporean, they groom talent that is already ready to give themselves to the course. As long as they don’t invest in true blue Singaporeans without any ulterior motives the gold medal will always elude the true blue Singaporean.

It is a hollow victory, a farce, a charade, basically, it is China vs China. I have always wonder if there is such a need for an Olympic medal, are we that insecure? Soon, true blue S’poreans will be pushed out of the way for instant quick fix to sporting achievements. We were recently reminded abt our unhealthy obsession with school grades, what abt medals?

As much as we have a love-hate relationship w foreign talent,
It hit me, when I saw the facial expressions on Li Jiawei’s face yesterday, that, with the years she had spent in Singapore, she was slowly, but surely Singaporeanizing.

These imports can’t even sing Majulah Singapura when the flag is being raised.

What’s the use of winning a Olympic medal, when the winner is just imported talent.
I would rather an imported FT coached an actual S’porean athlete to the olympics than to pay millions to get some FT to represent Singapore. Our FT policy is too open, FT maids, FT workers, FT managers, FT professionals, sooner or later we won’t have citizens anymore. it’ll be FT PAPs, FT citizens. What’s the use of spending millions to these FTs when there’s no pride in the medals brought home.

Honestly speaking, the win does not prove the sportmanship in Singapore. We can thank the FT sportmen and women to win for the country but deep-down in our heart, can we sincerely agree that this medal genuinely brought victory that is to be recorded down in Singapore history?
I would rather have our country to nurture a true Singaporean, not brought into the country to just win a medal in the future:be it in the next Olympic games, or in the decade or in the century to come. We can wait, can’t we?

Since the trend for big corporation is to hire outsourced services, I see no surprise that Singapore Inc is doing the same to get that elusive Olympic medal. Its great that the table tennis team got their Silver medal and I congratulate them for all their efforts.

However upon seeing them during the medal presentation, the feeling I had was nothing short than just like seeing my favourite football club winning the Champions League. A football club made up of talented individuals from all over the world with the priority to be champions in whatever competition they are involved in. This fails in comparison the emotions and feelings I experience I had when I’m watching the Lions play in the SEA games (back in the 80s-90s before the Under-23 rule and the foreign policy came in place). Even though the Lions only managed a bronze or silver back them, and ignoring the fact that its just a regional tournament, I had a colossal sense of pride and patriotism for them. This partly due to the fact that I can relate to these players unlike the local sports team of today.

If Malaysia have their very own Lee Chong Wei, Thailand with Jaraoenrattannatarakoon, and Jamaica with their ladies trio that swept the 100m finals, I cannot see why Singapore with our outstanding sporting infrastructure can’t locally produce such athletes as well. I don’t support this foreign policy in sports and the Sports Association’s obsession to get an Olympic medal as fast they can. I’d rather wait another 50 years for a true born and bred Singaporean on that podium.

To quote Malaysia’s term: “Majulah Sukan Untuk Negera”.

I refuse to use the term Foreign Talent. I prefer to use the term Foreign Worker or Immigrant.

I prefer the approach adopted in America, where they welcome immigrations (if they meet their needs) and treat them with warmth and respect. This will encourage the immigrants to stay for the long term and adopt the culture of their adopted country.

Perhaps, we should adopt the same approach?

We have to start treating our own people well, especially those at the poorer strata of our society. We can extend the same generous treatment to the immigrants. This will help them to assimilate better in Singapore.

The table tennis ladies team final was a China Vs China affair. As mentioned by CZX, we can easily buy such talents. Do we have to wait for another 48 years before a true blue Singapore-born person become an Olympian?

I think the government and sports authority should seriously think of recognizing and rewarding Tan Howe Liang, the only Olympian we have, while he is still alive. Instead of eulogies and singing hollow paeans when he is gone. It was very heart-breaking for me to see him working in the food centre in SIA a few decades ago.

there’s a chinese saying…”using other people backside and stick on our face” So what’s the big deal? national pride? who’s kidding who? more jobs for us?

I think this article, in essence, is spot on.

Singapore, like the US, is built upon a migrant history and culture. This sets the backdrop of our multicultural society, which many would argue, is exactly what the Singapore identity stems from.

I personally think it would be a betrayal of the Singapore spirit to dismiss the contribution of migrants who are simply trying to earn more money than they otherwise would in their native countries, since that’s exactly what our forefathers did.

Often times, a country’s identity comes from a dogged determination to hold on to its history, albeit anachronistically. Think the right to bear arms in the US. Although Singapore is a country least guilty of sentimental cultural preservation, I think that the migrant policy is an element of the past that we should continue to hold on to. After all, it is that which has made Singapore the success that it is today.

I m afraid Ah Choo is missing the bigger picture. The players R part of the policy, one whole package. U can’t separate the parts n just say the policy has problem, N then say U support the instruments used to implement the policy. Dat’s political incoherence.

At best, U can say U dun hate the instruments, U can remain neutral twds the instruments. U can even criticize the instruments fer allowing 2b used.

But once u hurray the instruments, cheer the instruments, U indirectly support the policy. Dat’s the reality of human civilization.

Again I have queried and pondered numerous times this question:

What is the purpose of achieving the Olympic medal? Is it self-glory, to put Singapore onto the International sports scene? At what expense and at what cost?

Look, bring in FTs, or whatever you call it to beef up the sporting skills of the locals. The whole purpose of having FTs is because a local cannot fill the slot or meet to the requirements.

If the government’s dream to have just one Olympic medal, well they’ve got it. Good for them. Now what? More FTs to get more medals? When does it stop? Where do our locals go who just want to enjoy that sport but want to compete at an international level?

If the government’s dream to enhance the skill level, by all means, bring the FTs in. But for God’s sake, don’t forget our locals. The whole purpose is to bring up the skill level of that sport.

However in the light of how the government has been portraying itself, I think it is for self-glorification of achieving something like a trophy, instead of national pride. The grouse is not FT, but the government’s way of handling the FT policies.

Anyway congrats to the table-tennis team. They did really well and yes, I am proud of their achivements. Go, Jiawei and team. You did Singapore proud!

Cheers,
Kaffein

Its like deja vu…..whatever it takes in the pursuit to be Numero Uno. Spending $$$ buying foreign talents, we have made a quantum leap in sporting excellence….but does the end justify the means? Are we seling short?

I for one am tired of this government’s obsession that SG has to be first in everything.

> 13) Winston on August 18th, 2008 10.30 am After all, it is that which has made Singapore the success that it is today.

Thinking aloud and after reading a very nice article of yours. Which person would you root for more.

a) Someone who you may not even know but has gone through two full years of national service.

b) Someone who has come into a system through some short-cut process by virtue of some friendly policy and won us a Gold medal in some international game.

Well, not easy right. Somehow somewhere, deep inside our heart. Each of us has our own answer.

Jamaica with a population of 2.7 millions and a GDP per capital of $4,300 (world’s 114th) can produce the 2008 Olympic’s fastest men (1st, 5th and 6th) and fastest women (1st, 2nd and 3rd) in the 100 metres sprint.Why must

Singapore with a population of 4.6 millions and a GDP per capital of $49,714 (world’s 5th) import foreign talents from the world’s most populous nation to produce a silver medalists.Come on Singapore, where is our next Tan Howe Liang in us? Let’s show the world we can do it on our own.

Local born will never achieve in the sports arena because govt and parents emphasise our children must study hard, in O, A and Uni. so no point work hard in sports. This is our priority. You can’t create another Fandi Ahmad, because of our mindset.

As far as I am concerned our defining moment in sports history was winning the Malaysia Cup.

It was won by Singaporeans for Singaporeans

But what happen to our players that won it ? They didn’t get any bonus, rewards etc …not like our FT players.

In fact the members of the winning Malaysia Cup football squad had to hold jobs to survive.

Anyway watch the movie ” The Kallang Roar”.

I respect the last who complete the 42km run and I don’t respect the table tenis team who get the silver egg.

[...] Sliver from Beijing – TOC: Hate the policy, love the paddler – The fire in my life: Identity Crisis?? – Alice Cheong in Wonderland: An Olympics medal for [...]

I congratulate the team members for their hard work in winning the medal. It is not easy, one way or another, to win an olympic medal.

However, to me (no offence intended to the silver medalists), it was a China B team that won the medal regardless of what the record books will say. While I feel happy for them and genuinely congratulate them, I feel no sense of connection or pride to their achievement.

I apologize to the Singapore flag-wavers, because I still don’t see the point of “sports-immigration”. Its not like these people grew to love Singapore so much that they wanted to play on our behalf. I would rather have had a Singapore team who went, wave our flag (properly), played their hearts out and get kicked out in the first round. In fact I feel even more ashame that we are of such shallow character that we actually BUY our atheletes to compete in the Olympics.

To me the only value of the whole affair is the Singapore Inc’s global branding exercise to show how “great” the tiny red dot is. Probably, those in-charge hope that those “naive” freedom chanting detractors int the West will be in awe that a tiny company of 4m can produce olympic medalists of such calibre. It is a show-off of the superiority of our much vaunted system – the same system that causes so much dread in their hearts that makes them “hate us” intensely.

In my view, this is just an instance of people up there spending big bucks on self-aggrandizement projects, that do absolutely nothing for the common man.

I also think its also a cover-up of a system that has generated a robot-like efficient population, who are bred to excel at scoring “A”s in exams, plug-and-play into the civil service, GLCs and MNCs as good managers and workers, but at the expense of many other things.

I also hope (real) Singaporeans see it for what it is – no different from the communists pumping their atheletes up with steroids and drugs to win medals or even the nazi’s trying to breed a super-race.

One word – Perverse.

Dear Robert Tan,

Yup the Malaysia Cup win was certainly great! Though I do hope you are referring to the team back in the 70s and early 80s.

Cause the 1994 final win was partly due to the performance of one Abbas Saad’s, an Australian import, striking partnership with our best football talent (and soon to be forgotten?) have ever produced, Fandi Ahmad.

Nevertheless, the win was certainly sweet! Though I was really hoping Lions to win the SEA Games Gold back in 1993 with all the locally produced talent that they had. But we all know the story for that one…

the bottom line is that the govt does not treat its citizens with the same respect as it does its imports. fantastic if you’re a medal winner and the PAP can politicise you and claim you for their own.

if you can’t produce something great for singapore that the PAP can politicise, you’re good for nothing, really. no time for you.

” it was a China B team” (post 22)

More like China Z team. No disrespect to the gals but if they were in China, what would be their rankings in CHINA and the WORLD?

Asking because

“So, for China, table tennis is at the heart of these Games. Its three male and three female players each happen to be ranked one, two and three in the world (which means that getting a place on the Chinese Olympic team is often much harder than competing at the actual Games themselves).” — BBC blog

Oh and piece is a lot better than ST’s Chua piece. Have to say this for MediaCorp. No drivel on “We are all foreigners”.

I am glad someone out there (Tan Kin Lian) agrees with me… that we should not call them Foreign ‘Talent’ automatically… they are mirgrant workers… once other opportunities come up, you can bet your last dollar they will pull out of here.
Coming back to the olympics. I don’t feel any prouder today then last week. The fact remains Feng was made a citizen in Jan ‘08 ! I also think we should get good coaches to nurture local talent. So what if we don’t get a medal, its for the Citizens. This win is hollow.. it’s just Gold and Silver for China. I asked 2 colleagues who hail from the mainland, who were they cheering for during the semis – my fellow Chinese.
You can’t buy the passion and purpose of a win with money. These girls won for the money…nothing else.. please stop dreaming that this will elevate local talent.

I have something to say.

singapore was born based on some natives and immigrants.
No doubt immigrants from china and india made this country what it is today through hardwork.

That was then, this is now – a developed nation with some identity and culture created over the years. Still a young nation, and still need to enhance its culture and national identity. Influx may dilute this. The influx is great, lets admit it – 1 million at least. Burmese alone is 1/10th of a million already.

for example, if more phillipinos become residents , the culture can become more philipinonised so to speak. Singapore has been know to be chinese-dominated. maybe this will change.

I think the FT policy could become more convincing with the winning of medal. Will this mean more FT will come in years down the road ? I am confident this will happen. It means wages become more competitive downwards , more than upwards.

People are not all born with genius minds. People’s interests and ability differ. Singapore is INC and will be even more INC, in my humble opinion.
Like international MNCs, like those in USA and Europe, they have attracted millions of Asian workers who finds the currency exchange incredibly enticing. Singapore is different from USA and Europe. Foreigners can become citizens in record time , compared to those countries.

I wonder how does this affect the feelings of local born citizens especially the me who served and still serving as nsmen ? maybe they feel shiok. maybe they feel something else I do not know.

Locals born without the high talents may have a tougher time ahead. If one fails down the road, he may not have the chance to rebound. Competition may have become too great and increasing.

The phenomenon to study is the fact that singaporeans consistently, relentlessly deny any opposition to win the majority for nearly half a CENTURY. Should election be a Win All or Lose All thing? Or should it be the people’s responsibility to ensure an alternative can take over if need be? By denying the opposition any chance, is that more good or bad? PAP started out as Opposition if I am not wrong. The current status of opposition is such that they never have the chance to gain the experience like that of any minister.

If ‘opposition’ is an idea that is so bad , why is this concept in the concept of democracy? If we adopt democracy, should we not own the responsibility to enhance its capability if it is extremely weak?

I think if the people consistently deny any progress of opposition, I wonder would the people consider scrapping the idea of opposition party existence in parliment and replaced by 1 party system found elsewhere in the world?

I hope my views come across as sounding neutral as that is how i feel about it.

Talent has to be proven. Else the term becomes ‘cheap’. As in talk is cheap.

A Tan,
The Singapore FTs were ranked (in the world) 6,7 and 9th. … two of the auntie lookalike ones and Li Jiawei. I just saw this on TV this morning.

Basically the whole TT competition is China Teams A to Z. Many of the other teams were also fielding China Chinese players. I happen to come across the US roster, nearly all were Chinese. Then I saw the Netherlands roster, at least half.

Whilst I am not supportive of this sports FT policy… at least we ‘bought’ the right ones. lol

Aren’t most Singaporeans foreigners from one land or the other?? If our ancestors were not welcomed, most of us wont be able to call ourselves Singaporeans…. we would have remained in our respective home countries…

And Singapore is not the only country that poaches players…look around the world, Middle East, Europe… what is so wrong in playing the field, instead of never succeeding

Last night I was intent on watching the finals match because the semi-finals match was amazing.

After a while, I was really turned off when the commentator kept talking about how the three players from singapore were born and raised in china, how Li Jiawei actually studied in the same school as that of her opponent, etc. He next time he repeated it I stopped watching.

Well, the singapore policy-makers and media can say all they want, but it sure doesn’t fool anybody.

Not sure if anyone noticed….during laast night’s table tennis finals, the on-site commentator actually asked the spectataors to cheer the S’poe team. This is a mockery of the so-called S’pore team…..because they all know that the entire S’poe table tennis team (including the coach) is from China!!

We might as well manufacture the Olympic medals ourselves…..it’s cheaper that way.

The Straits Times is now going into overdrive, issuing one propagandistic article after another…..claiming how “proud” S’poreans are. What total rubbish.

29) turnedoff on August 18th, 2008 1.12 pm

You’re not the only one turned off. My watching of the Olympic games is spoilt by our commentator who irritatingly yaks and yaks non-stop even while play is in progress.

He should learn from foreign commentators who professionally pause when play is in progress.

Please Mr John B*****, be professional. Stop your non-stop irritating yaks and let us enjoy the games.

* IMMIGRATION IN AMERICA *

> I prefer the approach adopted in America, where they welcome immigrations (if they meet their needs) and treat them with warmth and respect. This will encourage the immigrants to stay for the long term and adopt the culture of their adopted country.

I’m sorry to say that the first statement is not entirely correct. Americans do not necessary treat all immigrants with warm and respect.

“A large proportion of recent immigrants, both legal and illegal, are low-skilled workers and about one-third of those have not completed high school, giving them significantly less education than Americans born in the United States, according to the study, which is based on census data as recent as March of this year.” (IHT, 29 Nov 2007, http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/11/29/america/immig.php)

In fact, minorities in US are projected to become the majority by 2042 (IHT, 14 Aug 2008, http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/08/14/america/census.php)

Americans welcome immigrants, both legal and illegal, because:

1 – These immigrants contribute to the economy. Illegal immigrants, in fact, the economy relies heavily on them to become cheap labour. There are so many of them that the issue of whether to deport or grant citizenship is a major point of debate in the current presidential election.

2 – The openness (non-discrimination) towards new people has been made ingrained by their history. It is as true as the bold statement of “there is no America without immigrants”.

At the same time, new immigrants come to America exactly for its economy prosperity and its openness towards harbouring new people.

* NEED FOR IMMIGRATION *

America is not only the country which has its majority population made up pby immigrants. So do Canada, Australia, Taiwan, and, of course, Singapore.

Even in countries where natives are the majority, immigration is becoming a trend for economic needs and to replenish the aging population (which is also an economic reason). It is met with resistance, mostly from conservative parties, but the need is nevertheless real.

For instance, the European Union is aiming to attract up to 20 million African and Asian immigrants. In UK, “at least 70 per cent of the population rise over the next 20 years will be attributable directly to immigration”.
(Telegraph, 19 Apr 2008, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1567068/Record-immigration-sees-UK-population-soar.html

* IMMIGRATION IN SINGAPORE *

As a third generation Chinese-Singaporean, I already do not see China as my country. I see myself belonging to the same nation as my Malay- and Indian-Singaporean friends and NS buddies.

* Assimilation

This common sense of belonging does not come easy at all. As a matter of fact, even the Chinese Han race is the result of centuries of assimilation. To cite an example closer to heart, my parents come from different Chinese dialect groups, but not their parents (i.e. my grandparents). It takes a generation even for Chinese-Singaporeans from different (southern) dialect groups to assimilate. It takes time. Furthermore, the surge in immigrants is sudden. (It might be the government’s oversight. I would rather the government start the process earlier but more gradual)

* Our Olympic Medalists

Would I be more proud if the Olympic medalists were at least second generation immigrants (i.e. are born locally)? Yes, I will. But do I at least appreciate their hard work to achieve a medal? Yes, I do. I see tham as first generation Singaporeans. Afterall, they come to Singapore for its opportunities like my grandparents and Mr Tan Howe Liang did.

(FYI, Tan Howe Liang is also born in China)

Yes, I am all for it – hate the policy, love the paddler.

Yes, its no fault of the paddler to be ‘hated’ by Singaporeans. A lot of hardwork, stress, sacrifices needed for this achievement – no easy meat !! I believe those paddlers also do so for the love of the game as their personal interest (take away $$ form here first). Of course if they claim they do for Singapore that’s another matter (who knows on the surface, they can’t say something different after all no one usually talk bad about their bosses right).

Can I urge fellow TOC-ers not to use this forum to belittle personal achievements as opposed to national-glory-which-can-be-bought-by-money !!
As such then, it should be appropriate to salute our Tan How Liang instead.

Singapore is the only country with the ENTIRE TT TEAM including coaches made up of new citizens (Hong Kong doesn’t count as it is part of China). And what percentage of our Olympic team is made up of foreigners? More than 50%? Which other country has this high foreigner makeup?

I am not deluded that these girls won the medals for Singapore. They won it for themselves, period. Table tennis is their career, their life. If they aren’t good enough for China, then they simply look for another country to pursue their career. It is a business transaction, we give them money and opportunity, they sell us a medal. They don’t have any pride representing Singapore and I don’t expect them to.

Li Jiawei says it best when she said that as a Beijing native and a Chinese (as in nationality, not race), she hopes to win a medal on her homeground.
http://fireopal82.blogspot.com/2008/08/identity-crisis.html

Most people from my grandparents generation are immigrants. But it seems to me that singapore will forever be a migrant’s country, I don’t see how can we progress as a nation where there is no value other than economic ones attached to a pink ic.

“30) Livin’it Up on August 18th, 2008 12.48 pm If our ancestors were not welcomed, most of us wont be able to call ourselves Singaporeans…. we would have remained in our respective home countries…”

Our ancestors did not come here to play table tennis lah. I can’t say for sure whether they were invited to come here with open arms.

For any matter, they definitely came here with great risk, if you still remember WW2. In fact, while they alive, I heard bad stories from them about life here. So did you hear any stories from your ancestors.

right now that we have spent that millions on getting an olympic medal, let us stop this silliness and stop spending this money, please. Get on with the job of making more good years come true, esp for those in 80th percentile in terms of salary. PAP knows their salary has dropped over the past 10 years!!

It matter not that ALL other countries are doing it – we need not be so wasteful of our hard earned reserves, esp when many agrees this split the country even more!

it was China A vs China Z, with Z proudly and generously sponsored by Singapore taxpayers, thank you. I thought one of the Singapore players was mouthing the China anthem when it was being played – was I dreaming???

With the influx of these migrant workers / foreign talent (whatever the label used) that come here and of those that do decide to settle down as citizens (not PRs), their children will also be subjected to the same pressures of being educated and living here just like any other true blue Singaporean.

Is this not going back to square one whereby pursing a sports career seems to be a less attractive option as it is now? It seems like a vicious cycle.

A little clarification is necessary, especially since many commonly assume local talents are sidelined in favour of FTs in sports.

The key reason behind the large numbers of FTs is because local talents sideline themselves. Sure we can build a ‘pure’ Team Singapore, easily at least regional-class. However, many of these talents when identified in their youth are also intelligent and diligent students.

The strict and demanding regimen of training for athletic glory inevitably compromises on their academic progress. For themselves and their parents, the choice is often glaringly clear: qualifications come before medals. The Singapore Sports Council wants dearly for Singaporeans to win their own medals, but the closed conservative mentality is working against that.

The Singapore Sports School is an attempt at a compromise between the 2 almost mutually exclusive courses. We can hope that its programme works, and if it does we will perhaps see a ‘more’ Singaporean team in the future.

Till then, we shall have to live with FTs winning our medals for us. In the unfortunate circumstance that success in both the stadium and examination hall prove beyond us, then we had best get used to facing such a sports arena.

real singapore heroes – tan howe liang or singapore present table tennis team ? get real ppl – its tan howe liang. there was a time when singapore wins the malaysia cup there was a time we have pat chan, junie sng n joycelyn yeo there was a time we have fandi ahmad adeline wee n grace young. true blood heartlanders which we call our own.
li jiawei wang yuegu n feng tianwei face the real world n get the real facts of singapore heartlands feel for u n not from others who have vested interest. so get real foreign talents for real money is the real reason for ur committment in tis land or any others.

moral of the story?

next time when i am about to sit for any exams that i know i am ill prepared or can’t perform well, i just …ahem….hired somebody ’smart’ to take my place.

hmm…hope it can legalized soon?

39) I salute my ancestors on August 18th, 2008 2.20 pm

Our ancestors did not come here to play table tennis lah.
Perhaps not for table – tennis but for economic progression, better opportunities a better quality for themselves and their children ( if the tables are turned and we wanted to emigrate elsewhere, and citizens of the other country reacted in the same way as we are, towards you and me)

I can’t say for sure whether they were invited to come here with open arms.
From the looks of it – it does not seem like our silver- medal winning sportswomen are welcomed here with open arms either. Perhaps, we could accept them, like our ancestors were.

For any matter, they definitely came here with great risk, if you still remember WW2. In fact, while they alive, I heard bad stories from them about life here. So did you hear any stories from your ancestors.

We will in a different era with different risks, needless to say when people decide to emigrate from their home country to leave behind everything and everyone they know of, it is no easy decision. It’s a bit like being the new kid in school, probably worse.

In an increasing globalised world, immigration is inescapable, the same views of dilution of our culture is echoed in the UK & Europe with centuries of history and heritage. But both you and me know that Singapore and the Singapore ethos is very different from 40 years ago, the younger generation don’t have the same stories of hobbies as the older generation, hence how much of the change is due to the influx foreign talent as opposed to a change in our times?

At the end of the day, we should integrate foreigners into our cultures and lifestyles. Teach them the things we love as Singaporeans despite our races, like our food or our shopping and/or Singlish

If we sideline them, we will have ghettos of people living marginalised amongst our community, which create greater social problems. (like in Belgium, France, UK, Ireland)

Let’s move on & take it from the Foreign Talent Sports scheme ….it’s about time we import some Foreign Talent MPs…nationality / loyalty should not be a problem – just give them citizenship before GE

Why not be bolder as the governement always said, they do not fear to institute unpopular policies, outsource the whole cabinet, replace PM, MM etc with FT’s, feasible right. Haha, see how the eat their words.

Yeah!!!! What it means is that we can win medals via this policy…..great……

Let’s buy some brazilians, italians, argentinians etc to form our football team…buy Asafa Powell or the Bolt guy to win the 100m….buy whoever we want for whatever medal we want…. not bad what……. got medal, take the attention away from the issues at home….. “wag the dog”….

Look out world….S.A. 2010, London 2012 here we Singapore comes……yeah…..

While we are at it can we also buy some skaters or skiers for Winter Olympics? Must have balance mah…. How about youth olympics? Got buy anyone or not?

It’s rather apparent, judging from the comments here, how people feel towards imported achievements. Perhaps there is a much loftier reason behind the use of imported talents that the average citizens are unaware of, but nevertheless, the ’shame’ felt would certainly diminish the shine in the medal.

Leaders ought to be sensitive to the citizen’s sentiments and…non citizens as well though they themselves feel no shame.

Let me be the devil’s advocate…of sorts..

I think it is important for us to distinguish between the policy and the person. The sadness I feel about all the criticisms about the foreign talent issue is that a lot of it is directed at the people – the foreigners, such as the table-tennis players and all.

Everyone in the world looks for a better life. Thousands seek out the USA as a utopia of sorts. Millions have migrated there throughout the years. If ever S’pore gets into trouble, I am sure many of those cirticising the govt now will also look for a better place. In fact many already do.

That is the nature of being human – wanting a better life for oneself and his family. Thus, there really is nothing wrong with that. So, we should try and distinguish that from the policy.

The policy itself is not totally flawed – but it is the implementation of it that is hopelessly flawed. For a start, letting in such a huge influx of foreigners (many of whom would not classify as “talented”), is causing a lot of problems – cultural, social, economic and even in day to day life (just look at the transport system and the many foreign commuters who are straining our infrastructure).

So, lets keep our critique on the policy rather than the people (the foreigners) who are doing what any human being would do – seeking a better life for himself and his family.

olympics is a sporting event that gives each country across the globe to field the sportsmen and sportswomen that each have groomed. that undeniably is the essence of olympics.

now singapore in its unique way is trying to field athletes that it has “bought”. this is not an issue about immigration. many countries field athletes not born in their soil but were groomed in sports in their soil. when singapore first got this short cut ideas, it was after France’s victory at world cup where many French players were not born in France. but what Singapore chose to ignore is that those players were groomed in the French sports culture.

hence the gold, silver or bronze medal represents the overall standard of the sporting culture of the country that won the medal. in our case our table tennis team does not represent the standard of sporting culture in Singapore.

they are not a product of the sports training a Singaporean receives from primary school to uni and thereafter. they are not a product of the coaches in Singapore. the Singapore sports facilities, as a form of training grounds, will not be a contributing factor to their high standards.

if they had not come to singapore but gone to dubai or spain, they will still be winning those medals. so the real victory is to China not to Singapore. we are so used to commercializing or monetarizing everything in this country. but it will not be easy when it comes to sports even though the olympic body may recognize the medal recipient country. since not everyone is going to accept that its a true Singapore victory, it will remain as an uncertain victory in the history books.

“45) Livin’it Up on August 18th, 2008 3.19 pm At the end of the day, we should integrate foreigners into our cultures and lifestyles.”

Hey, I agree with you but only to a certain extent. First, do not trumpet it too much if you can’t take care of your own backyard (e.g the recent 3b help as announced and much needed). People are not so blind on the local situation here that you can easily explain away that FT / migrant workers are the way to go. It is only good so far that they are having an effect of a net-job gains for Singaporeans and not here displace our local Singaporieans. Remember the statistics as presented by them, some of which have also been discussed in this site.

“if the tables are turned and we wanted to emigrate elsewhere, and citizens of the other country reacted in the same way as we are, towards you and me”

You must be joking my friend. Never have I seen such a liberal policy to convert foreigners into PR into citizen in such a short / quick time. Please please please correct me if I am wrong. Bear in mind, Singapore is full of foreigners and we do talk among ourselves about policies here and in their countries.

“But both you and me know that Singapore and the Singapore ethos is very different from 40 years ago,”

Well, it should be after 40 long years. But somehow not on the Numero Uno party which still continues to call the shot and with you around to perpetuate their ethos that seem to be perfectly right all the time.

“the younger generation don’t have the same stories of hobbies as the older generation, hence how much of the change is due to the influx foreign talent as opposed to a change in our times?”

Well, tell that to anyone who gets affected by it and I do not think they are going to take it kindly because of the former. That includes reasonable learned middle or old aged persons.

they didn’t seem serious during the final stand-off with china. it’s almost as if they wanted to give the gold to the chinese. but in the end, i don’t care even if they weren’t serious. i felt more in common with those who won and displayed their country’s flag proudly, those who won and kissed the flag on their shirts. we will never have such people in this country because we are Singapore Inc. and that’s all there is to say.

Many Singaporeans don’t realise that these are the seeds for future success that could involve local born Singaporeans.

In time, these players can no longer represent Singapore but their wealth of knowledge and experience is shared with other Singaporeans.

What was truly a loss is not what happened to Tan Howe Liang but how Singapore sports failed to capitalise and build upon his success.

Its more than just “importing” foreign talent. Its using it to build upon and add to Singapore’s ability to compete at the highest levels.

Rather than slamming “foreign” talent as some have done in a fruitless aim at self destruction, it should be a success story that inspires others in Singapore to take up sports and achieve what those that had gone before could not. That is the myopia of criticism.

“You must be joking my friend. Never have I seen such a liberal policy to convert foreigners into PR into citizen in such a short / quick time. Please please please correct me if I am wrong. Bear in mind, Singapore is full of foreigners and we do talk among ourselves about policies here and in their countries.”
We do have a very open policy, what I meant is our reaction to foreigners is rather adverse. Mind you I get rather exasperated when I go to restaurants for a nice Chinese meal or at the hawkers and the Filipino lady cant explain what the contents of the dish is or brings me a Chinese lady who cant speak English and I just want to throw up hands up in desperation and I miss having Singaporeans around who will talk to me in Singlish. I do believe we need to look into our immigration policy and obviously our foreign talent aint so talented, but I also think like you said as so long as we can have “net job gains/benefits” perhaps be a little more tolerant.

And to those who do give us some added value – perhaps we can help integrate them.

“Well, it should be after 40 long years. But somehow not on the Numero Uno party which still continues to call the shot and with you around to perpetuate their ethos that seem to be perfectly right all the time.”

politically, we have bounds and leaps to go lah…to make sure all of our people are truly taken are of.

While I generally agree with the criticisms of the “Foreign Talent” policy voiced on this site, I think the case for sports deserves different considerations.

Think back to your growing years. Imagine you picked up table tennis, excelled at it, and spent all your time playing this sport, maybe representing your school in competitions. What would a typical Singaporean parent have said? Words of encouragement? Perhaps… but how long will that last? More likely than not: “Ah boy, don’t spend all your time playing! Come and do your homework! Your test study already or not? Want to die ah? Whole day play play play! You think next time table tennis can feed you issit?”

Singapore does not provide the most nurturing environment for sports, especially sports as a career. And this is not just a fault of the system, but also of our own mentality. Sports? Exercise enough to be healthy can already lah! Any more is a waste of time, a diversion from more important things, like studying! Is this not the typical Singaporean mentality?

Can such discouragement, such disparaging views of sports ever produce great olympians? How many of us have really been given the chance to explore which type of sports we might do well at, and encouraged to pursue it further to a higher level? How many Tan Howe Liangs can such an environment produce? Not many, as history has shown.

But maybe, just maybe, with OLYMPIC SILVER splashed all over the media, our kids today can say to their parents: “But I want be like Li Jiawei and Feng Tianwei!” Maybe more kids will want to try their hands at table tennis and other sports – and grow up healthier than our generation.

So while you might not feel proud for Singapore for this olympic medal – and maybe even a little embarrassed – think of what it can potentially do for the Singaporean sports scene in the years to come, for our future generations.

And this, I think, is much more important than the somewhat tainted glory of “Singapore’s first olympic medal in 48 years”.

On the issue of foreignness.

Not every team B from China can get team silver when representing another country. Not every team B from China can get fourth in singles when representing another country. So if you don’t feel proud applauding them as representatives of Singapore, then applaud them as individual sportswomen who have strived to excel in their sport. I think the tremendous amount of effort they have put into their training can beat hands down what anyone who has spoken out in this forum has done for his/her profession. An olympic medal is a great achievement, no matter who they represent, and deserving of applause, not derision. Even if you think Singapore does not deserve the glory, they do.

I do not know how patriotic our national paddlers are to Singapore. But surely all these voices of dissent will murder any bit of patriotism they might develop or have developed for Singapore. If we treat them like money-minded mercenaries, then that is what they will become. Put yourselves in their shoes. If we show them welcome, warmth and encouragement, maybe, just maybe, they might grow to love Singapore, and stay to help nurture our future young sportsmen, and become true Singaporeans like our forebears.

So give them the standing ovation that they deserve.

Appreciation has my complete agreement; my own comments (No. 42) echo his/hers.

I applaud them making it to the final, but I do not take inspiration from their efforts playing against China. And I do not blame them. I would have felt really lousy being in their situation. Standing ovation ? too premature for me.
It is not about winning all the time. I am a passionate supporter of people who try against all odds in any field.
I believe we need to do more with our sports culture and not look for quick solutions. New Zealand and Jamaica can teach us that.

If these folks were born in Singapore, do you think they would be in table tennis or would they be trying hard to make ends meet in Singapore ?

Like most of us, taking the train and listening to the govt preach to you …… save money, get married , have children, upgrade yourselves, don’t be too dependent on the govt, work longer because you got not enough money in your cpf, don’t think of retirement, don’t be selective over low paying jobs, GST is good for you, Sky high mister is needed to prevent corruption, and last but no least….
vote the PAP…. because without them Singapore is nothing but mud flats.
I think scare mongering works …. .or does it ?

A rap tune with some hip hop dancing would be nice??

On a different story http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/08/foreigners-boost-singapore-economy-says-pm-lee/#comments

I responded to sarek_home’s points:

4) sarek_home on August 18th, 2008 4.36 pm He won the 1960 Olympic medal out of his love for the sport.

Two key points to take note:

Love for sport –

Would Singaporean parents support their children to spend hours and hours on certain sport just because of “Love for sport”?

Will Singaporeans be happy that we just participate the Game without winning anything?

1960 Olympic medal

No one repeated that history. If it were repeated, there might not be a need of Foreign Sport Talent program.

I have to wonder if Mr Tan Howe Liang won the medal for Singapore today, would people make issue with the fact that he came from China.

11) Kaffein on August 18th, 2008 7.16 pm Responding to #4

“Love for sport –

Would Singaporean parents support their children to spend hours and hours on certain sport just because of “Love for sport”?”

Yes. Living in Australia, I can see the how the parents emphsaize on sports. Also the government too. Every weekend, most aussie parents bring their kids to stadiums, football pitches, swimming pools, etc.

I don’t see how Singapore cannot be similiar.

“Will Singaporeans be happy that we just participate the Game without winning anything?”

Yes. What about those Australian athletes who came back home without winning a medal? They are still treated as heroes because they tried and did their best.

I remember I was cheering for Ang Peng Siong. Did he even qualify? Of course not, but I sure did feel patriotic that he is a Singaporean.

“No one repeated that history. If it were repeated, there might not be a need of Foreign Sport Talent program.”

Wrong. Because Singapore government doesn’t encourage local kids to have a life in sport. See how they treat Fandi Ahmad? Ask him now. He’ll tell you he regretted coming back when he could have lived his life out in Europe.

Because the government doesn’t value us and are willing to put in programmes which may or may not produce world class athletes.

They rather scout around in world and ‘purchase’ what other countries have already invested time and training on the youths for a particular sports.

“I have to wonder if Mr Tan Howe Liang won the medal for Singapore today, would people make issue with the fact that he came from China.”

This is a very valid point;. Haven’t thought about it. But then Mr Tan come to Singapore for an entirely different purpose.

Kaffein

I think we so import foreign talent to become our Prime Minister. Don’t you think is a good idea!

aiyah, must win matches without people talking bad lah. if really win by true blue suekapokeans will people talk neh? no right? the fact we set tongues wagging means something not right that’s why, people talk lor suay lor. worse hor, own people talk neber mind. but, koreans lost, koreans will sing suay us lah. where got glory like that? not only koreans lah, other world citizens may also say suay us, you not shy meh?

as for tan lh, aiyah, he is first generation immigrants, so can cut him some slack for the win lah. but we already more than 40 years old, and in this 40 over years, we backside born out 2nd and 3rd generation liao, you mean to tell me, we can’t raise legitimate sportsmen from our 2nd and 3 rd suekapokeans?

unfortuantely, it is true our priorities in this small dot leaves little room for a lot of other proud pursuits enjoyed by bigger countries but hey, what can you do ah? accept mediocrity with pride lor.

but no, our suekapokeans lifestyle( and gene pool) cannot produce top grade sportsmen,we must use our money to buy other countries sportsmen to win and let other people talk suay us, not shy ah?

aiyah, our problem is lifestyle here lah. if suekapokeans lifestyle cannot produce world class sportsmen, we cannot produce means we cannot lah. if can, we sure have one day – if it ever happens. but why so kunjiong now neh? old man must complete legacy of his success story for birthing this nation before go issit hehe?

truth is, some leading people, not all, are so obsessed with successful people in this country, we see losers no up lah that’s why, we can’t accept fact it is aright to lose in sport( on the international stage especially) after doing one’s best and here is the rub, it also explains our attitude towards our weaker fellowmen in our society lah.

if we can accept people as they are, why need to push them to some people idea of success neh? why? so we can justify successful people high pay? lol

it is not bad being not so good in life or just average lah because, many are that way in life. people just don’t see it is indeed BLESSED TO BE POOR! lol.

yes, I will respect the 3 girls MORE if they settle down get married AND THEIR KIDS SERVE NATIONAL SERVICE in singapore. Until then, we just sponsored them for a silver medal and I fully expect them to return home if their mom and pop calls them home ! and true I will not blame them but blame the singapore govt for their shortsightedness!!

‘Magi mee’ syndrome. Instant food anytime. These ping pong player started training at very young age in their country which supported them. By the time when their foundation in the sport is solid, our country get them over and put in some more training then they have to perform. Instant player. Why we don’t train our own youngster??? Too long to wait for them to be able to perform. Our leader can’t wait. impatient. Can’t take the feeling of them not able to deliver. Waste taxpayer money mindset on our own people. Rather spend money on FT than on singaporean. Sick place with sick leaders.

sad to say I can hardly feel a sense of pride in their winning…

The skeptical and unappreciative nature of Singaporeans prevails.

The fact is Singapore as a nation is made up mostly of immigrants, be it a 3rd generation or a 1st generation new comer. We can safer say that all who came were simply looking for better opportunities.

The paddlers and all other sportsman too came in search for the greener patch of grass and the truth is they too call it home and donned our colours.

I applaud these folks who have tried their best for Singapore and especially the 3 ladies who have won for themselves and us a medal. Besides just being great sportsman, they have shown extreme mental capacity, having to within criticism from their home nation to have ’sold them out’ and worst off to withstand the new adopted countryman’s unhappy cries that they are not true blue Singaporeans.

Besides unhappiness with the people, we find a lot of complains about the policies. If we think about it, Singapore policies are all go-getter / target driven.
Do remember that it is why we are what we are today and we live in a ‘peaceful and free’ environment.

Some have mentioned that local talents are not given equal opportunities. I would agree to a certain extend.

Since we are all little kids running in nurseries or kindergartens we were taught ABCs, English and so on. I never heard of any place that teaches children to do stretching and learning how to build themselves up as a sports person.

Or even at home, parents will be telling kids to study hard for a brighter future.
How many of you have heard of anyone telling their children to concentrate on singing or drawing or to be a professional sports person?

The extremely high opportunity cost for Singaporeans to zero in on a certain sports since young is another factor why there are not that many ‘true blue’ athletes to make us proud. There are too many ‘what if’s to discourage the mainstream.

Before you raise more questions about how the paddlers are not ‘locals’ and policies are wrong or if opportunities are taken away from local boys, please ask yourself this question.

If these ‘new’ Singaporean wanted to be your friend, would you give them a chance to do so. Have you given them a chance to become a Singaporean and how can they prove it to you that they are trying their best to do so?

Should the pledge of loyalty to Singapore be done the old Chinese manner of drinking the bowl of blood? Or can they proof it to you by trying their best in doing what they tasked to do by our nation, to make us proud?

i spent almost 2 hrs reading through all the post in this forum. why did i do it? how did i even find this forum at the first place? well, singapore in gold medal finals is a big thing indeed! so i decided to watch the match. but, sad to say this but as i was watching it, i felt a certain discomfort in me. i almost was hoping that singapore would loose rather then win the match. and every point china got, i felt better. shocking isn’t it? BUT please, let me explain. i am a ‘pure’ singaporean, like many of you indicated. where as, my dad was an expat or foreign talent. he has been living in singapore for the past 30yrs, i think. and me practically all my life. i grew up as a child here. played at the playground with the malay, chinese and indian kids. ate the the coffee shop near my house. got into troubles at school and etc. i feel a belonging, a connection to this country. this is my country, my home. i feel safe here like no where else in the world, amongst my own people. that is why i can proudly hold up my head and say that i AM an Singaporean. BUT!! do you think these so-called foreign talents of singapore say the same thing and feel the same way i feel about singapore, MY homeland?? the answer is NO, my friends. the fact is that they will never feel the same way, and we have to face it. they did not grow up here. they did not grow up like we did. so HOW are we to feel proud of their achievements?? i myself am ashamed really to say that singapore won silver medal in the Olympics. because we did not! the china players did. no matter how we put it into language, it would always mean ‘the china and NOT the chinese players won the medal’ for us. i hope you people see where i am going with this. and even for the fact to bring in foreign talent to give them citizenship rights, how can the policy really be so open?? the fact im aware of is that it takes i certain number of years to even convert from a PR status to a CITIZEN for us normal people. and yes, the government has the right to do do as to allow FTs or expats to integrate to society, in simple term FEEL like a Singaporean themselves. but this players are getting this right too easily, and i bet they would not VALUE it!! like some of you said, they are as likely to run off to another country if it offers them more money! what i feel that FT policy is ok. but get the players here at a early age and GROOM them like many of you said. SO THEY BE LABELED “MADE IN SINGAPORE” AND NOT simply “MADE IN CHINA but ASSEMBLED IN SINGAPORE” or even “MADE IN CHINA, IMPORTED BY SINGAPORE”. and nevertheless, i really don’t see why singapore is so dying for medals in the olympics. for all i know is that MEDALS ARE NOT BRINGING DOWN FUEL PRICE OR THE COST OF LIVING here!!! fine if you are happy the way your life is, at least care to look at the aunties or uncles who collect cans from litter bins everyday to make ends meet. can’t all the money spent on these CHINA-PLAYERS be channeled to help them????? have a heart, make a change.

In the 70″s when the PM wanted to make Singapore a Garden City, the NP came up with the ingenious idea of using Instant Trees. These trees were planted somewhere and transported to whichever places that need them. The trees served its purpose in double quick time and Singapore became a Garden City instantly. It pleases the PM as well as the publice and looks good to the world. But 30 years down the road, these trees start falling like dominoes in a thunder storm. It cause traffice jams and damage to properties and even injury to people.
Will our FTs sports talent cause these problemsin time to come in the long term(30 years just like our investments)?

i can bet you all these FT paddlers will go back to china when they hit their retirement age.

“S’pore is a nation made up of immigrants” – That was true when S’pore was not even independent, no NS, no FTs, level playing field. Immigrants stayed on during/after WW2, japanese occupation. Yes, that describes our forefathers 40, 50 yrs ago. But it is completely different now, FTs/PRs will jump ship at the slightest problem while true blue S’poreans will have to stay to fight. So lets rest this talk abt us being an immigrants society, it is not applicable anymore. It is a globalised world, rats will swim to better food source n jump ship just as fast.

“S’pore is a nation made up of immigrants” – That was true when S’pore was not even independent, no NS, no FTs, every one work to on a level playing field. Immigrants stayed on during/after WW2, japanese occupation. Yes, that describes our forefathers 40, 50 yrs ago. But it is completely different now, FTs/PRs will jump ship at the slightest problem while true blue S’poreans will have to stay to fight. So lets rest this talk abt us being an immigrants society, it is not applicable anymore. It is a globalised world, rats will swim to better food source n jump ship just as fast.

Like this “Instant Trees” example, typical PAP.

However, “Instant Trees” or not, trees fall in thunder storms. But I don’t recall any instance of “falling like dominoes”.

“i can bet you all these FT paddlers will go back to china when they hit their retirement age.”

right on. If I am FT, I will surely return home enjoying natural scenery and travel big motherland with million dollars than to stay in a 99year leased pigean hole with superficial image and get condemned by the local. Why should a FT want to stay in a pigean hub forever when he is already make popular in his own motherland by our dear government ? Am I naive to think that China people is very pragmatic and realistic too ?

If you become Singaporean citizen, you have to give up yr China passport, correct?

Can still run back home meh? (remember got one sportsperson who did a couple of years ago, I tink)

AhKao – You can check with our athlethics association on whether FT can still run back home or not.

comment 56 – best comment in the whole thread IMO. You put it across perfectly.

One thing I’m wondering after looking at how everyone feels uncomfortable about foreign talent winning – about people who don’t have a feel of Singapore and have more experiences with their opponent than the countrymen of the state they’re reperesenting…

Looking at it that way, I can think of some like people who were born and bred in Singapore that come pretty close to this. Namely the sort of elite who lives in their own enclave, does not think about the “common man”, goes to private/international schools made up mostly of foreigners and in fact does not understand a jot of Singapore despite living here for ages. (And does not have to go out much for interaction and relaxation because they either go to exclusive places or stay at home and use the internet.)

I’ve known people like that and I feel really uncomfortable around them… especially when they get put into positions of power over Singaporeans and don’t know crap about how to deal with them and how to understand the way they think.
It’s still understandable if they’re expats but ironically they aren’t.

I don’t suppose such people would want to represent Singapore in sporting competitions though.

Responding to #60

“I have to wonder if Mr Tan Howe Liang won the medal for Singapore today, would people make issue with the fact that he came from China.”

“This is a very valid point;. Haven’t thought about it. But then Mr Tan come to Singapore for an entirely different purpose.”

Most probably not. With due respect to Mr Tan Howe Liang, he emigrated with his family from China in 1937. He won the silver medal 27 years later in 1960, by that time he should had been fully assimilated.

More importantly, he won the medal out of his love for the sport. In fact, he had to pay out of his own pocket to finance his training and expenses due to the lack of financial support.

Compare this to the present day, where imported athletes are promised a reward of S$1 million (S$1.5 for team event) for winning a gold medal at the Olympics, he did not receive any monetary rewards for his effort.

Lastly, there were no mass imports of foreigners, as opposed to the present, for people to make an issue of.

76) kero on August 19th, 2008 11.10 am

Assuming that this strategy of import-sporting-FT-and-win-medal is the way to go in order to lay the foundation for our own locally bred future sporting talent.

Do you think that our current system (be it educational and sporting institutions) is even structured for such talent to be produced – e.g groomed (from very young age), constantly nurtured through vigorous programmes, reasonably compensated during their useful peak-perforamance period and perhaps a coaching career to go with by when winning streak / peak-performance start to wane to start the next circle of grooming the next cohort – not compensation only until when they start to win medals.

It is hard not to feel that they like the short cut method in favour of expediency. FTs has somehow become the byword for something very good and even eclipsing your desire to even defend whatever liitle natural passion (maybe silly misplace or some even label it as xenophobia) you still have for being a Singaporean simply because you were born and brought up here.

74) AhKao on August 19th, 2008 10.22 am

yes FTs have to surrender their passports for exchange with our singapore passports, to be singaporeans. BUT!! the big but is that. they can always surrender their citizenship here when they have enough money or another country offers them better opportunity. let me explain further. we a singaporean surrenders his citizenship. he or she becomes ’stateless’. as in belongs to no country. so people usually surrender their passports or citizenship only after another country has accepted them. BUT!!! for our dear FTs, they were not born here. BORN IN CHINA, so china has no option but to take them back. besides, with so much people living there, would anyone bother to check or inspect you??? i hope i have given you a clear explanation. yea? feel free to drop by my blog. cheers!

Dear sarek-home,
Sorry. old man already (No wonder people keep on sending me those enhancemnt pill like Vi…..) got all mixed up over the 70’s must be thinking of the communists moving down Vietnam. the Indo-China, when people say SEA will fall like dominoes. My sincere apologies.

Proud of Silver Medal?! I dont feel it at all. I’m proud for our local true blue Singaporean’s sportmen instead. They are the ones whom I will only recognised as our nation’s prides regardless they have won or not. I want them to know that they are not forgotten. Thanks for the hard work they did and courages they took in the Olympics games.

By the way, the foreign talent scheme for sportmen should be cancelled soonest. It’s our hard earned money!! It should be used in helping the needy ones; To help the hardworking/ excel students from poor families to further their studies. To help the poor and helpless elders in daily expenses and medical expenses.

One thing which I believe the majority of us are still pondering: How many of these foreigners(including PRs) are capped as talented? Not many as you can see. So, do we really attract the correct people in? Or are we attracting these foreign ‘talents’ in to create more social problems? If they are really talented, they will not come to Singapore.

Take table tennis as an example: Currently, we called winner, China table tennis team as ‘team A’- China talented ones. When players of team A were young, they are already so talented that China did not want to lose them. (China didnt want to release any of their talented players especially Zhang Yi Ning when Singapore went over to recruit player/s many years ago- for more details, pls look at the news in yesterday’s Lian He Zao Bao ).
Afterall, the same thing applies to other sports and jobs as well.

Dear Guys,

Thank you for postings – I suddenly remember Uncle Choo whose doggedness cost him his life early, and Tan Howe Liang – always on his own. The times have gone by – no matter how we try, the extraordinary passion of such an athlete as – Tan How Liang or one great coach as – Uncle Choo are no more around – cash motivation has taken over.

A few years ago I had the privilege to meet Tan Howe Liang when he was doing his menial work earning a living; I wonder if he is retired now.

I move for a special mention and award (to include a special one off cash grant) for Tan Howe Liang (as soon as possible) in conjunction with this year’s current National Day celebration to do Singaporeans proud as he did 48 years ago in Rome when our then national flag was raised.

Thank you TOC.

So how come only silver?

Now this is Div 1 govmen — its FT won GOLD. GOLD not silver.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/olympics/athletics/7569957.stm

Hi Tear in my eye,

I agree with you. We need to honour our national icons, and there are definetely more genuine Singapore heroes than LKY and grassroots leaders to give accolades to.

In fact, I am trying to put together a fuller feature piece on Tan HL, and would be grateful if anyone here can provide TOC leads to contact him direct.

Zhenng Xi,
Here’s my small contri abt our one and only true-blue olympic silver medallist. I understand he works in the national stadium (not sure of more details sorry), and he lives in kampong arang, a small hdb estate of approx only 12 blocks, somewhere in the vicinity of bmw performance motors workshop, dunman high school hostel, next to kallang river (if you dine at kfc or kallang big mac, you can notice the hdb flats across amongst where he lives).
ask around the little hwaker centre, and i am quite sure those folks can give you more info.
why not – get something out of our patriotic ministers’ pockets since they champion so much about buying foreign sporting talents to our shores.

Well to all. I believe by now the only certain thing we can feel comfortable will be at least we get the returns of investment (whatever $ put in for the foreign sport talents) within 2 years.

Unlike some others investment where we are looking at returns probably in a period of say 30 years !? no prize for anyone who knows about the investment I m talking abt. Haha

Haha…no wonder some people out there (quite shocking in this day and age) still think that Singapore, is a province in China.

Hi Whitley-gate,

Thanks very much for the info, every little bit helps, TOC will make our best efforts to contact Mr Tan.

87) GS on August 20th, 2008 1.11 pm

hahahaha.. its shocking, but might really be true huh? no wonder china was cheering so loudly wen singapore came out during the ceremony. hmm.. come to think of it, they weren’t cheering for us. they were just cheering for their CHINA-made FTs. trying to promote to the rest of the world, so they will BUY to.. sickening man!! im disgusted!!!

Money aside, given a chance will Li Jia Wei, Wang Yue Gu and Feng Tian Wei don Singaopre or China colours, i guess we know the answer. I am sure they did their best and helped us got our flag up there, but victory feels hollow. We bought our silver period and we are suppose to be proud of the fact we “talent spotted” them, why dont we apply the same acumen amonsgt our shore. The cost of raising our flag is $750K, now we know. Have we come down to this? Transactional? Win at all cost? Other countries may have the same policy. But it does not mean that its justified. I thought we always do this “our way” because we know whats best for ourselves, what happen here? Are we too eager to prove something? What are we proving? Who are we trying to prove? Rooting for our atheles suppose to bring national solidarity, but from the pieces that ive read, i think it may have just split our country. Sports about development, training and hard work. Winning is great, but more importantly its about participation and having to tried my best that should be paramount. We got our silver simply because we could afford it. Sports take time. I am for the foreign talent scheme, but keep it at the coaching level, continue to invest in sports facilities and training technology, use our edge in science and technolgy to achieve sporting prowess. The sports school is a step in the right direction, do it on our own, like what we have always been doing. Given time, i am sure we will find another Ang Peng Siong and Tan How Liang amongst us. I am sure victory then will be sweeter then.

We are not alone.

One Quarter of Beijing Olympics Table Tennis Players Are China Born
http://hongjun.blogspot.com/2008/08/one-quarter-of-beijing-olympics-table.html

i don’t think the leaders give a hoot to what you guys think. they have already figured it all out and expected the usual protests and arguments. at the end of the day, there will be many others who would celebrate the victory with them – with or without your support.

that’s all that matter, the 66% who have given them the power to do as they please .

Will we end up in this stage when pursing for glory and power ?

Hacker Uncovers Chinese Olympic Fraud
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/08/20/1259253

US does it too. And IOC is worried abt trend.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/7574379.stm

What happens if rules tightened, and our FTs cannot compete for S’pore. Lose money like on UBS, ML, Barclays and Shin?

[...] Sliver from Beijing – TOC: Hate the policy, love the paddler [Recommended] – The fire in my life: Identity Crisis?? – Alice Cheong in Wonderland: An Olympics [...]

Oops. Drunk driving. :p

sorry wrong article.

Yes, I do agree with the ideas of the writer. Everytime I think of the victory, I am proud. But everytime I remember the people who won, I am ashamed of my country.

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Be proud of your nation’s pride and the winner of that rare contests.

Let me tell you a story.
It’s a parallel between this national level critique and a annual affair between junior colleges.

I came from a top ranked secondary school and was an excellent tennis player. Unfortunately, I did really badly for my ‘O’ Levels. Got into a bottom ranked school based on my results. Went to the affiliated top ranked junior college (JC) to appeal for entry based on sports merits but the principal said, “We already have enough tennis players!”

Disheartened, I heard about a trial at a neighbourhood JC just outside the top 5 rankings. I went down and gave the performance of my life. They took me in and I was happy. They paid me with an education I didn’t earn the usual way and I paid them with my talents.

I most definitely displaced one of the students at that JC who may have made the Tennis team if not for me. However, as we were all beginning the school year together, we began our experiences together – I had not come in the middle of the school term to replace existing players. There was no resentment, there was not jealousy. I was glad to have been offered the chance to perform at a high level for another school who were willing to give me a chance.

Similarly, anyone who emigrates to anther country to ’sell’ their skills, whether sporting, financial, technical, etc, is looking for a chance to build something for themselves. If they are able to make friends and create a comfort zone, they’ll build something for the long term in their newly adopted country.

How should we treat these new residents? How should the government behave in how it treats us?

When a child is adopted, the adoptive parents go all out to make the child comfortable so that the adopted child does not feel like he does not belong. While this is taking place, the other children in that family should not be ignored. I suppose this is the perception many people in Singapore have of how the government is treating us.

I want more people to come to Singapore who can help our country shine.
I want more people who can actually make Singapore a better place.
I ALSO WANT our government to act more responsibly in who it allows into my country.
I DEFINITELY WANT a clear understanding of what the government is trying to solve by opening the gates of the immigration counter to willy nilly!!

I definitely believe that I should love the paddler but hate the policy. This is because the paddlers make my heart race for my country but the policy makes me want to throw bricks at the policy makers who don’t think enough to warrant their salaries and allowances.