Have we won an Olympics medal? Really?
Monday, 18 August 2008, 3:30 pm | 1,654 views
The Online Citizen thanks Xtralicious for allowing us to publish the following article. It was first posted on her blog here.
Xtralicious
A few days ago, people were positively outraged that this Foreign Talent (mouthed with a very contemptuous and derisive tone) dragged the National flag on the floor during the opening ceremony, and here people are positively proud that she is one of us, she won a silver medal for us! Excuse moi while I go to that corner and roll my eyes silly.
*Goes to corner and rolls eyes silly* *Comes back prim and proper again*
Where is our pride and dignity, that we forsake it so readily for a bit of gain?
The BBC pens its article, starting off with:
Feng Tianwei, who, like the rest of the Singapore team, is an import from China, won both her singles matches to help them clinch a tense 3-2 victory.
You feel proud? You feel that Singapore has won a Silver medal?
I don’t. And I am not the only one it seems.
And this doesn’t sit well with me too.
Their table tennis coach Liu Guodong said: “I feel very honoured. I’ve been in Singapore for just over two years and can help it get an Olympic medal, at least a silver, for the first time in 48 years.”
好大的傲气啊！
I am going to be scathing here and say - that you are only here in Singapore because you know you cannot make it in China.
And it shames me greatly to say that.
And since we are into such capitalism and buying of National pride, why go for the second best? They should have bought Wang Nan and Zhang Yining over! Then, we would have won our first gold medal in 48 years, or ever.
**
I have nothing against people choosing to immigrate to this country. I shake my head at the whole Foreign Talent nationwide propaganda because I think most of them are a big joke, including the now very famous Mr Amit Nagpal. I used to think that Foreign Talent belong in the category of private bankers who specialize in certain niches, highly specialized industry experts and so forth.
Apparently our government disagrees.
These days, even a foreigner with average qualification and professional experience is considered as a “Foreign Talent”. Thankfully I don’t need to write an entire diatribe to express how appalled I am and how ridiculous this whole ruckus is. Endoh has done it very nicely.
With that kind of direction from the government, I wonder how much stronghold the citizens have in this landscape of rapidly increasing foreign talent. There are many of these foreign talent in the estate I live in now. They are rude, aggressive and have no common sense of living in Singapore. I wonder if they can truly assimilate in the lifestyle and culture of Singapore, or are we merely a stepping stone for them to move on to US or Canada?
As for the Foreign Talent playing in the Singapore team, I do not blame them for coming here for the money. Anyone would. I blame the government for yet again, choosing the short term solution route. You may say that with the Sports School changes everything. We are now nurturing our own, encouraging our young - no expenses spared. Really??
Yet another foreign talent.
And you think she is one of us? That she thinks she is one of us?
In January 2008, Tao became embroiled in controversy after the Singapore Swimming Association (SSA) introduced a 15% levy on the cash awards given to swimmers, with about 6% set aside for youth development. As part of the government’s Multi-Million Dollar Award Programme (MAP), she received S$23,750 for winning three individual titles and one team gold at the 2007 SEA Games.
She was therefore “taxed” S$3,562.50, with S$1,425 going to youth development. Unhappy with this, Tao said: “If they [the SSA] want to cultivate youth, they should find their own money, not pay using our awards. It’s through our hard work that we got the money. So, I don’t see the point that we should give the money to the youths.” She also said it had been her school and not the SSA which had borne the expense of her overseas training. The SSA said it was “very disappointed” with her comments, and pointed out that the association had spent “easily in excess of $20,000″ in sending her for competitions abroad such as the World Championships, Hong Kong Open and Japan International, and a stint at the Australian Institute of Sport. SSA Vice-President Oon Jin Gee told the press, “Even with the Sports School funding it, it’s our taxpayers’ dollars going into her development. It doesn’t matter which avenue it comes from, it’s still Singapore’s support for her.
And now they are using the taxpayers’ money to fund her million dollar makeover.
I am so sick of the level of stupidity of this government.
Can we entice Obama Barack and Hillary Clinton in as Foreign Talent to replace this lot of grossly overpaid and highly complacent peacocks?
Oh. I don’t think so. It slipped my mind that Mr Barack and Ms Clinton are in politics for totally different reasons than our local chosen ones. Silly me.
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Great article! Thanks for letting us know about it!
Obama is the product of a foreign talent in that case his father. His KENYAN born father immigrated to the US because of a scholarship. Doesn’t that rebut your argument? Aren’t all our forefathers and mothers foreign talents so to speak? If you really want to go into a historical study of the the true “natives” of Singapore that would limit us to perhaps 20 to 30 percent of Singaporeans. This article is ridiculous and bigoted. My grandparents came to Singapore because of the opportunities available and so did members of the table tennis team.
I had mixed feelings watching the women’s table tennis final.
It was more like China B team vs China A team and the B team was on loan to the Singapore government.
I would have felt really lousy deep inside if I were in a similar situation as Li Jia Wei or her team mates.
This govt should not waste time with 20 years planning to reap more Olympic medals, just entice China B team sportsmen/women to come over. In fact if Ho Ching does not lose more money , this govt can go for gold by making an offer to the best in China which they cannot refuse.
Other Asean countries will envy us for our golden achievement in the 2012 London Olympics ! lol lol
Steve: Thanks for your compliment. I am glad that someone enjoys reading it.
manbeer:Thanks for your opinion too. However I think you have misconstrued my point. Firstly I do not have a bone to pick with the Foreign Talent per se. I have an issue when they are 1. not as competent and highly qualified as lauded to be 2. depriving our just as qualified and experienced locals of jobs. 3.
Secondly, I think the team has done well. Whether or not it ’s for personal glory or for the national pride (as the papers claimed) - time will tell.
Thirdly, I take exception with our people, who for one moment talk about Foreign Talent in a dirty tone, and then claim them as our own in the next.
Fourthly, it is true that our forebears came from China, Malaya and many other places. They came here to make a new life and strike out on their own. They were not enticed with money to come here, were they? But that’s the least of my concerns. My point is - it doesn’t matter if you were born here or not, but if you feel that you are part of the country, if you make the culture and idiosyncrasies your own and if you will stay ultimately. I am addressing the Foreign Talent Policy and not the Foreign Talent per se.
Lastly, was Obama a talented politician in another country but enticed with money to contest in US? I thought not. Hardly a point of contention.
I suggest we dun waste all our stupid money and risked not winning a single medal. (Okay, we won a silver, but still very risky.) Our Govt should just get all our ministers to kneel down and beg Michael Phelps to change his nationality to Singapore, while promising him after his haul of Olympic gold medals, he shall be made a Minister-without-portfolio or Sports Minister and enjoy million $$ in salary and also substantial pension. Even if we discount Phelps 3 team gold medals, he’s still left with 5 individual golds and with that we could easily rank in the top 20 countries in the world. Definitely better than a pathetic silver.
spindoctor: Good point. The crux of the matter is whether our team had actually felt torn when playing against their former compatriots.
To play the devil’s advocate, do we even think we could have bought Wang Nan and Zhang Yining over? Money may not be the motivating factor for everybody. In the words of our government, doesn’t that make Li Jiawei and Feng Tianwei quitters in the eyes of China and her people?
Think about it.
Foreign Talents for:
>> Birth Rate Boost
>> Employment Market
>> To Win in Games
>> Medical & Healthcare
… oi, smart ass government, why not have FT replace you guys? Weren’t you all looking for talents to fill in positions wherein you see non locally??
While I do agree that Singapore seems to be trying to take the shortcut approach to getting an Olympic medal via foreign imports, this is a separate issue from that of welcoming foreigners to Singapore with open arms.
I agree with manbeer that Singaporeans’ attitude toward immigrants is quite ridiculous. There is no them versus us. Go back a couple of generations and most of us will find that we are descendants of immigrants. We shouldn’t expect the Singapore of tomorrow to be any different, or to believe that we are somehow privileged as sons of the land.
The government should help the underprivileged citizens, but it must never lead to a crutch mentality or to protectionist policies like some other unnamed nearby countries.
As for the Olympics, I can’t be bothered to watch, it made no sense to me anymore.
I am just enjoying the lower Petrol Prices since China is busy showing off during the Olympics, if not otherwise will ordinarily be jacking up world oil prices with their high demand and consumption of fuels.
Oh yah hor, Terence, our government has NO crutch mentality hor? Especially their raising of ministerial salaries to jeep them corruption free hor?
Manbeer, most of our forefathers are immigrants to one country or another, true. Obama’s father a Kenyan, true. But Obama was born in the US. And our forefathers came to this island looking for jobs or better lives on their own and finally settled down here and laid their roots here. Immigrants are different from “Foreign Talents” who were scouted, imported, paid, and trained under special government scheme just to win medals for the country.
Foreign tatents in the other sectors were brought in to boost the country’s economy; they don’t have to be citizens and they don’t have to “represent” Singapore.
Imported athletes have to convert to Singaporean citizenship; they are here to represent Singapore in International competitions. Can we say a table tennis player who was brought in two years ago from another country and became a citizen only last year, truly represent Singapore? Did she come here and relinquish her former citizenship to be Singaporeans because she loves this country so much? Or was it just the Money talking?
I hope this is not going to be the trend of future Olympics, where the rich countries get to buy top athletes to represent them. What a farce that would be.
Let us first recall that there are about 150,000 Singaporeans living and working and studying overseas. You could legitimately ask if every Singaporean who’s reaping the benefits of another country’s welcome is really top rate…or could be said by the natives of the host country to be rather “average” foreign talent. Has anyone stopped to consider how much resentment immigration might generate in a working class neighbourhood in any given city in another developed country? ( Remember Pauline Hanson of Queensland Australia?)
It is also pertinent to point out that not every one of the 150,000 Singaporeans is overseas because they’ve been “crowded out” at home. Lots of Singaporeans are not in Singapore because like immigrants here, are looking for fresh opportunities and experiences.
In other words, it is quite hypocritical for Singaporeans to behave xenophobically towards foreigners ( and for some reason in Singapore the more “third world” the country the worse the attitude; see our attitude towards foreign domestic workers), while expecting other countries to welcome us with open arms (they do, see the huge percentage of Singaporeans overseas).
Rachel,
The Chinese people would have considered Li and team mates traitors IF they had won ! But I never doubted the outcome. lol lol
I mentioned mixed feelings because I knew the outcome and the efforts were not inspiring !
At the end of it all, I hope we should not crow too much about the silver. I do not agree with their short cut policy to buy success. There is so much more to do to improve our sports culture. Look no further than NZ and Jamaica.
I also believe that this govt would have failed in their attempt to buy the best from China as you had mentioned. The best sportsmen/women take incredible pride in representing their country and this is something the Singapore govt should learn.
12) Jie Kai on August 18th, 2008 6.15 pm: I don’t think any other countries other than Singapore have such an open policy on welcoming foreign talents.
Go anywhere in the world and you are subjected to stringent checks, criteria to meet before they open their doors for you to even compete/work in their market.
Unlike other countries, Singapore is the only place, whereby you can get red carpet treatment by simply being foreign! Have you seen people who have never stepped in to Singapore being given EP/PR to entice them over?
Singaporeans or any other people would be attracted for better opportunities and experiences. Singaporeans are just unhappy about the BIG open door policy we have on Foreign Talents.
No offense and disrespect to our FTs or imported players. But I think there is a major disconnect between our FT policies and the locals. The government is not helping at all.
I found this amusing dark humor when i wrote to my brother:
“…the China coach imported by Singgie Liu Guodong said: “I feel very honoured. I’ve been in Singapore for just over two years and can help it get an Olympic medal, at least a silver, for the first time in 48 years.”
”
It’s because you cannot make it in China. Stop dreaming in la-la land and think you are some great hero for Singapore. Stay 2 years and talk big. Ask you carry M16 run up penkang hill for 2.5 years in NS, i think you also can get gold medal…
For IPPT! hahahahahaha….
Kaffein
I am totally not happy with the FST.
Congrats to our fellow China FTs for bringing back the elusive medal that our govt couldn’t get after so many years of hard work in promoting sports in Singapore. This one for all the millions of dollars, million of tongues wagging and all the passion by watching and shouting in support of our instant sports heroines. Honestly, I enjoy the level of playing in this competition because I used to play TT in my younger days. But, to claim the medal as our own effort, No!
My friend who was involved in the TT NSA sponsored and spent alot of monies bringing the players and their families to Singapore a few years ago. He should be acknowledged and share in the honour of this medal.
well done to the chinese race….We won both the gold and silver medal.
7 of the players standing at the podium understand the china national athem.
got money, anything also can buy. ask our leader, they know best on the power of money.
Actually, there’s this suspicion that what they really wanted was to let us get away with at least one gold medal. Singapore hadn’t won anything (better than a bronze) in near to half a century, plus relations are quite cordial between China and Singapore at the mo. So they were hoping that Singapore got at least a gold medal, got to hear Majulah Singapura being played at an Olympics award presentation for the first time, one of her sportspersons winner of a ‘gold’. I mean, what was so difficult about giving away one gold medal? They could get the other two (in table-tennis); and there were plenty in say gymnastics or diving to win. What would one gold medal mean in the race for gold? The likes of US and Russia have given away gold medals themselves; “thrown game”. Plus, the Singapore and Chinese competitors themselves were so chummy together. What’s a little friendliness? What’s a little Olympian fair play (’We’ll give you one, we’ll take two’)? So, from the start, they were already out to let us win. Gold.
I am proud that our sportspersons refused to let them deliberate us a victory.
(Edited)
Actually, there’s this suspicion that what they really wanted was to let us get away with at least one gold medal. Singapore hadn’t won anything (better than a bronze) in near to half a century, plus relations are quite cordial between China and Singapore currently. So they were hoping that Singapore got at least a gold medal, got to hear Majulah Singapura being played at an Olympics award presentation for the first time, one of her sportspersons winner of a ‘gold’. I mean, what was so difficult about giving away a gold? They could get the other two (in table-tennis); and there were plenty in say gymnastics or diving to win. What would one medal mean in the race for gold? The likes of US and Russia have given away gold medals themselves; “thrown game”. Plus, the Singapore and Chinese competitors looked so chummy. What’s a little friendliness? What’s a little Olympian fair play (’We’ll give you one, we’ll take two’)? So, from the start, they were already out to let us win. Gold.
I am proud that our sportspersons refused to let them deliberate us a victory.
Foreign talent immigration has always been there since the dawn of civilisation. In the old days, it happened very very slowly. So slow, many didn’t even know it was happening. These days, with the liberalisation of international capital movements aided by computers, telecommunications, and supersonic air travel, the process has hastened and the geographic distances shrunk virtually. This have transformed the faces of many international sports competitions and in our context, it seems have even challenged the very definition of nationhood.
Clearly, we are in a technological era that is experiencing too many changes for most to bear, not only in sports and immigration, but also our work life, social life, leisure and family life. Conversely, there are also the upsides of this era, such as having this forum itself online freely available at anyone’s leisure.
I don’t think we can avert these waves of changes, as it is too massive for anyone of us, or even collectively as a nation, to stand against. So why not just make the best of the situation? One way we can help is to be kind to our newcomers competing under our flag? It can be hard for them to be ‘patriotic’ (does that word still bear meaning?) if we do not show our appreciation for choosing Singapore as their new home in the first place.
I guess eventually nationhood and competition will take on new meanings as their traditional boundaries become blurred. What remains would be the fundamental essence of the Olympics, which is to foster international friendship. Then someday, we will all live in peace.
MIC
Ya, felt so nauseous seeing the picture of the coach with the 3 table-tennis girls hugging together. Not one iota of Singapore blood in them and to think that our government is so over the moon with them securing a silver medal. Honestly, I think everyone who detest this will readily agree that Malaysia’s silver, won by badminton player Lee Chong Wei (a true bred Malaysian through & through), is much, much more sweeter and precious than the silver won by our “Singaporeans”. I will not be surprised if one day, one or more of these girls will just leave for home and renounced their citizenship, having attained their goal of making it rich here! What then can our proud government do then, besides feeling short-changed?
Do not forget we have got several problems with our China’s born made Singaporeans track and field female atheletics.
I am pretty sure their hearts are not with Singapore when they don our colours.
Shame on Singapore.
hongjun
>> What then can our proud government do then, besides feeling short-changed?
Wait for a further half a decade or more lor…
Kaffein,
I don’t think there is anything wrong with a coach saying: “I feel very honoured. I’ve been in Singapore for just over two years and can help it get an Olympic medal, at least a silver, for the first time in 48 years.”
Imagine if he’s employed as a coach, to put 3 Singapore born and breed players to the honor, anything wrong with saying that?
Look at the USA’s women volleyball coach, she is a Chinese, would you think that its not appropriate for her to say the same?
And fyi, Kaffein, unlike the players, he doesn’t claim to be a Singaporean, he is still a Chinese national, what is there to do with NS?
So, what is the moral of our story? Rich boyfriend attracts beautiful girlfriend. Wow. When Rich boyfriend fall sick or become poor or ugly?….What will happen? I let your imagination completes the story.
I consider Foreign Talent to be a dirty word. I refuse to use this term. I prefer to call them immigrants.
I welcome immigrants who wish to live in Singapare, and be subject to the same obligations as Singaporeans (including national service), provided that they are proud to belong to Singapore and can contribute to the country.
I like to treat everybody equally and with respect. I even dislike the idea that some people are “talented” and should be treated differently, regardless of whether they are “local talent” or “foreign talent”.
It seems that our leaders have forgotten what the “equality” in our national flag stands for.
Vacuum State:
“Clearly, we are in a technological era that is experiencing too many changes for most to bear, not only in sports and immigration, but also our work life, social life, leisure and family life. Conversely, there are also the upsides of this era, such as having this forum itself online freely available at anyone’s leisure.
I don’t think we can avert these waves of changes, as it is too massive for anyone of us, or even collectively as a nation, to stand against. So why not just make the best of the situation? One way we can help is to be kind to our newcomers competing under our flag? It can be hard for them to be ‘patriotic’ (does that word still bear meaning?) if we do not show our appreciation for choosing Singapore as their new home in the first place.”
Technological era? What has that got to do with lax foreign immigrant policy and Singapore proportionally having one of the highest foreign population in the world?
For national matters, there is nothing that is “too massive for anyone of us, or even collectively as a nation, to stand against”. Just vote.
Why not just make “the best of the situation”?
Indeed numerous commenters here are doing just that. Speak out and let the ruling class know of the raging unhappiness over their “foreign talent” policy.
I assure you most our citizens are already very kind to your table tennis team, generally exercising massive restraint and quietly going along with the official stand. I hope that you realize that this patience has limits.
“I guess eventually nationhood and competition will take on new meanings as their traditional boundaries become blurred. What remains would be the fundamental essence of the Olympics, which is to foster international friendship. Then someday, we will all live in peace.
MIC”
OK, MIC-Vacuum State-u_r_minority_views-1world1Dream, or whatever you choose to call yourself next time… lol…
You can achieve peace in two main ways - by having a system with independent checks, balances, and reciprocal respect, so that aggression does not escalate, or by having a 1Party1people system where all resistance is crushed and everyone is compelled to believe in 1Dream.
I guess we both prefer the second system, but historically people don’t enjoy being oppressed for very long.
They will still smile and shake your hand and praise the leaders, year after year, so the 1Party thinks that nothing will happen and push their luck further and further. Patience will run out.
But I could be wrong; all the criticisms you see here could be the sentiments of a very very very very very very very very small group of troublemakers who stubbornly refuse to accept the glorious future of 1Party1Dream.
Ha ha ha… Go ahead and push us further; nothing will happen.
Well, ultimately China is the one that should feel proud because its people won both the gold and the silver olympics medals. period. Nevermind what Singapore think, it is what China think that is important. Why do one think china release talent for sale to other countries ? For all we think, it is because they don’t feel at all threaten but they feel proud because they are selling second-rate talents, and secondly, these Chinese will indirectly bring glory to China after all they are born in the mainland.
has anybody heard of this: ta zhong lian chong pai zi?
literally, it means “to hit one’s own face till it swells so that the person can pretend to be a fatty”.
i will bet, most of the world out there (in a “conspiracy” or otherwise) are laughing at us, SINGAPORE. of course, no prize for guessing which four are laughing the loudest.
pls, SINGAPORE, have some sense of decency.
Some friend commented that a couple of years ago, some foreign talent sportsperson couldn’t take the pressure, and ran off back to her home country (China).
Odd.. cos Singapore does not recognize dual citizenship. So if this FT sportsperson had given up her Chinese passport, how did she run back home to China?
This whole infatuation with a medal is simply stupid… it’’s so machiavellian.
As a citizen, I would rather not get a medal then to buy one. It cheapens the spirit of the Olympics. We don’t feel they are one of us and they don’t feel we are all of them. So why lie to ourselves? It seems they (PAP) are just showing off to the world but from the reactions of the international media, the glory lasts as long as the largest soap bubble you can make. Poof.
Dear UCF
>>Technological era? What has that got to do with lax foreign immigrant policy
>>and Singapore proportionally having one of the highest foreign population in
>>the world?
Technology has a greater impact on our lives than most of us know. If there are no mobile phones, internet, a globalised economy (enabled by tech) or relatively cheap air travel, there will be less people willing to immigrate. Immigration in the old days was hard and laborious. One feels more homesick, disorganised, …etc. Nowadays, it is much easier. When there were very few willing immigrants, even an open policy did not bring in many.
Technology also makes it harder and harder for dictatorships of poor countries to carry on the way they have been. So, when their regime falls, it unleashes a huge influx of people into the world market.
Small nations often need many foreigners across their boundaries. eg. Luxembourg has 30,000 people driving into their country every morning to work. I don’t know how many live in the city itself, but it is visibly substantial. Monaco is luckier, they have a huge (probably majority) ‘foreign’ population, but only the super-rich ones. Island nations like Fiji and Mauritius have substantial ‘foreign’ populations that eventually naturalise into citizens. Even reclusive nations like Bhutan have workers from India.
There are also many Singaporeans who are working overseas, and have obtained PR and citizenship in those countries. It is a global circulation of talent. Energy always circulate. They don’t stand still!
Some countries used to be laxed with immigration, nowadays most are not. Is Singapore laxed? I think it is if you are young, educated, healthy and willing. If you are not, it will be very difficult to get a PR or citizenship. Nobody would want you if you are old and sick. There are Malaysians working in coffee shops here for ten years and couldn’t get a PR. Maids can’t even get pregnant here, in or out of a wedlock. Anyway, the cheap labour here is not something many envy and are discussing about here is it?
So we are very selective with our immigrants.
However, are we selective enough with those ‘foreign talents’?
Personally, I have met many brilliant minds from China, India and the region. In my humble opinion, these bright young minds are way better than even the brighter local ones. The bright ones from our neighbours tend to be street smart and are quick with initiatives. Thanks from being from a poorer country. Daily life itself in a poor country is a constant training ground.
However, some from the developed countries can be very disappointing. But then, these are not always ‘foreign talents’. They are sent here by their parent companies for various reasons. It could be merely a continuity of their work, trust, language skills or just a way to get rid of them in the home country. These are mainly MNCs and they get away with bringing almost anyone into any country. If you say “no” to them, they will move their business somewhere else. eg. We have foreign private bankers here because they want to bring money from their rich clients from their home country here. Are they necessarily talents or mere agents? Do we benefit from them? You judge.
Sometimes I wish our local youth would be more motivated to excel, but I think there are only this many talented ones in a small pool. On the average, however, I find Singaporeans to be able people and reasonably open.
>For national matters, there is nothing that is “too massive for anyone of us, or
>even collectively as a nation, to stand against”. Just vote.
Singaporeans have collectively voted the same government in since Independence. This is not agreeable with 33.3 percent of the electorate, but this is the result we should respect and live with. Whatever we do, we can only vote on matters that we can control within our boundaries. I don’t think we can vote against the wave of technology affecting our national policies. The world is big, Singapore is very small.
This is also the world the ruling party is faced with and therefore have acted accordingly in a way that they think it is the right. I am not saying I agree with everything they do necessarily, but that is the way it is. I also applaud the presence a forum like this for the many alternative political views. And yes, we don’t have to be politicians to discuss about politics, despite what the gov like to do to stop us.
>You can achieve peace in two main ways - by having a system with
>independent checks, balances, and reciprocal respect, so that aggression
>does not escalate, or by having a 1Party1people system where all resistance is
>crushed and everyone is compelled to believe in 1Dream.
There are more than two ways to achieve peace. Fundamentally, one has to feel peaceful as an individual first. If all individuals feel peaceful, there will be a peaceful society and a peaceful government.
funny -
how the govt can goof up on anything. Something like this, citizens also get so angry that we have split the sense of NATIONHOOD’ that only cybercitizens can feel? Or does it permeate though the whole level of Singapore Society?
I hope ST will back off this issue and stop trumpeting. I see our country splitting up even more!
35) Vacuum State on August 19th, 2008 1.32 pm
“Personally, I have met many brilliant minds from China, India and the region. In my humble opinion, these bright young minds are way better than even the brighter local ones. The bright ones from our neighbours tend to be street smart and are quick with initiatives. Thanks from being from a poorer country. Daily life itself in a poor country is a constant training ground. ”
Why ? Because they are not so conditioned and bothered in straight-jacket rules and regulations like we do lah. Simple answer lah. This is called ’strict-smart’.
Here, we have rules (and fines) everywhere from crossing the road, eating and drinking in MRT, flushing for toilets, banning of chewing gums, and the rest which you can just name for me, where standard common sense behaviours are synonymous with fines. Can our dear garment accept this kind of behaviours from us. Mind you, we are even discussing whether there should be regulation over freedom to comment over the internet where no one knows anyone if not delibrately revealed.
That is why we have quite a lot of robots who sometimes apply rules (technically correct but once officially done cannot be retracted) that sometimes it is devoid of common sense. Talking about strict smart. Certain things must start from those who have the power to change lah. Do not blame it on those who do not have the power to change lah, they are merely following order lah.
Dear Robot Robot Robot
I agree with all you said except the last sentence, “Do not blame it on those who do not have the power to change lah, they are merely following order lah.”
In my time living overseas, I have observed a common pattern that people deserves the government they get, and the government deserves the people they get.
So we do have power. Not the same kind of power as the government has, but we do have a bit in each of us.
Wonder if the Chinese govt refers to the silver medallists as “quitters”? And the quitters get paid way more than their stayers. Wonder what our SM has to say abt welcoming other countries’ quitters as foreign talent ? And will he retract what he said about Singaporeans who’ve emigrated? Double standards surely !
Dear Level Playing Field
I think many are “drifters” not “quitters”. Drift to where the money is. But to quit, quit from what?
Dear UCF
Alternative views, including resent over foreign talent policies, need not be treated as ‘trouble makers’. Not unless you want to bloat up your paragraph like that!
They will say: “How can it happen? They are not starving. The economy is fine. They are all smiling and waving flags. For over 40 years they have always supported us. We have already explained the foreign talent policy umpteen times. We have instructed all the media to show the positive aspects of the policy. We even brought a Olympic silver medal back.
We keep telling them: there is NO problem. NO PROBLEM NO PROBLEM NO PROBLEM!
The people will always support us. Look, they are smiling and shaking our hands!
So what happened? WHAT HAPPENED?”
“Alternative views, including resent over foreign talent policies, need not be treated as ‘trouble makers’. Not unless you want to bloat up your paragraph like that!”
You are right. That is not the view of “minority troublemakers”.
Dear UCF
“They will say: “How can it happen? They are not starving. The economy is fine. They are all smiling and waving flags. For over 40 years they have always supported us. We have already explained the foreign talent policy umpteen times. We have instructed all the media to show the positive aspects of the policy. We even brought a Olympic silver medal back.
We keep telling them: there is NO problem. NO PROBLEM NO PROBLEM NO PROBLEM!
The people will always support us. Look, they are smiling and shaking our hands!
So what happened? WHAT HAPPENED?” ”
Sorry, what’s your point exactly? I’m lost.
Totally agreed with this article. Fantastic article!! Even I dont feel proud at all of the winning of the silver medal! And I agreed that our forefathers came here in the olden days with difficulties. They earned every cent and dollar with sweat and blood. Many of them came here to escape from wars and suffered very badly. Not like the ‘foreign talents’ nowadays. And a big joke is are these present foreigners really very talented to be such a precious to Singapore?? I doubt so.
I feel embarrassed when my Canadian friend from Montreal was surprised and emailed this to me ” So the whole table tennis team who took the silver medal for Singapore in the match were not born in Singapore but hired from China??!” I cant blame my foreign friend for asking me that question because she wanted to confirm that she didnt get the wrong message from the media. And now our government should be happy as the whole world knows Singapore throught this and because of this, we are ashamed.
@ UCF ,
impressive display ! Like the the first routine performed by 3,000 young men during the Beijing Olympics Ceremony.
To me, the China B team was on loan to the Singapore govt. and this B team was not going to try to beat the A team. Silver is the only colour ! LOL
Will this govt now go on with the next step of approaching Brazil to loan them their football B team for the world cup ? LOL
To the Singapore government,
Instead of using this type of shortcut , we should learn from NZ, Jamaica.
Even little Fiji can teach us how to win with 7 men on a rugby field !
“45) Coco on August 19th, 2008 4.07 pm ” So the whole table tennis team who took the silver medal for Singapore in the match were not born in Singapore but hired from China??!” I cant blame my foreign friend for asking me that question because she wanted to confirm that she didnt get the wrong message from the media.”
Not surprising lah. Do not feel embarrassed lah. Your foreign freind should be the one feeling embrassed for not having the capability in appreciating the grand decision taken by our highest level.
Anyone from North Point to Timbuktu to South Point will feel like the what your friend did. Why, simply because there is this thing called identity being built into any normal & sane human being. However, grand decision taken by the highest level will supercede anything and everything.
Why are we so hung up about where the atheletes are born?
In our first cabinet, all the ministers, except Lee Kuan Yew, is born in Singapore. Does it matter as long as we have people doing well for Singapore?
48) Vacuum State on August 19th, 2008 5.45 pm
1) Hey, say supposing a complete stranger rushed into your house out of a sudden. How would you feel.
2) Alternatively, you meet this stranger smiling at you on the first day. Then on the second day, you meet up with him and family and speak some friendly words. On the third day, you meet him coincidentally at a coffee shop and also joined him for some bite. On the forth day, you see him again and invite him over to your house for some lunch or dinner on the fifth day. On the fifth day, he came together with his family.
It is the sense of a floodgate being opened too fast too soon and simply some people are just not prepared for it. Garment is good in crunching static numbers. However, when it comes to non-static human feeling, it is zero, ziltz and somehow it gives you the feeling they do not care much - pushing you to the limit as long as you can take it.
“Why are we so hung up about where the atheletes are born?”
Nice. Man-o-straw.
People are not hung up about where the athletes are born. They are unhappy about the process, the policy that brings them in.
“Does it matter as long as we have people doing well for Singapore?”
There is always danger of using the end to justify the means. They have to e aware of the consequences of using shortcut means especially to government that tends to motivated by money than passion. If indeed money can solve problem and buy talented, why aren’t we winning in other sports as well ? Is the China table tennis team just a rare and lucky example of the solution ? The gov is just taking the easy way out. Did the gov ask why the local can’t be groomed to greatness and what is the hindrance ? The FT have nothing to lose, and they can always return to their country and live frugally, whereas in Singapore where thing are expensive and no human right, who to pity the Singaporean should they fail ?
Agreed! It’s the policy that is wrong. We are telling the world that we welcome all foreign ‘talents’ in all fields through Olympics. And right now, after seeing the Olympics, many countries are considering to come here soon..haha (BUT, are we attracting real talents?- No,No) Like the article that quoted the PR’s letter. Foreigners(including PRs) just dont get it. They are the ones who took Singapore for granted! Singapore treats its immigrants fairly whereas other developed nations treat their immigrants as second class citizens. Singapore is a place where PR status and citizenship can be granted cheaply whereas in other countries like NZ, USA and other developed nations, they have very strict requirements and the fees for the applications are very expensive. That is why many of these foreigners (including PRs) dont pledge to be Singapore Citizens, they just treat here as a stepping stone. Gain what they want and qualified to the country they wish for. Will these foreigners(including PRs) still stay in Singapore if we meet crisis? haha, they will not! We, the true- blue Singaporeans will be the one that fight for our nation!!
So I will not be surprise if these players surrender their Singapore citizenships, go and settle in USA or go back China after their retirements with loads of $$$.
I do agree with many of you in the forum that there are many foreigners in Singapore and it can be uncomfortable to some sections of the community. All I am saying is that as the more educated lot here (I hope) we should also try to look at the bigger picture of the inevitability of a visible transient global population that will come and serve Singapore, then possibly even moving on to another country. It would help if we can be more constructive balancing it with the global picture, rather than the small confines of our tiny island.
There are Singaporeans who emigrated to the USA, Australia and UK and have come back too. So are Brits who return from Australia/USA to England. It happens. Without judging its merits, we are now living in a globalised economy enabled and hastened by technology and liberalisation based on the market economy.
I do support the opinion of Daniel that the government should be more patient and look more into supporting the passions of its people rather than motivating people with just money. However sadly, I think passion is a expensive past-time in a tiny city-state like Singapore trying to come out from its recent industrial efficiency into something more. Realistically, do you expect our rapidly promoted government scholar ministers (some even uncontested) to understand how to ignite the passion of the people? I think some may even have trouble persuading a pack of hungry girl guides to the hot dog stand. So I wouldn’t depend on the government. Many people around the world don’t.
“Realistically, do you expect our rapidly promoted government scholar ministers (some even uncontested) to understand how to ignite the passion of the people? ”
If that’s the case, that underlines the failure of government that motivated by glory and money. That is the kind of value we get from a government we indirectly giving mandate for over 4 decades ? Such government will never rule forever and only living in self-deniel mode and always look out for cheap and short term solution. No first government will ever resort to this. Not Malaysia, not Taiwan, not USA, no first world country ever, only Uniquely Singapore.
The problem is not whether we can depend on ourselves more than on the government but the government want people to depend on them in order to control and to show that PAP is the next best thing the country offers. The government do as they please and as they like without concern to citizen’s feeling make depending on ourselves seem harder each day because the at the end of day, the financial impact and uncertainty perpertuate by gov policies will greatly affect our decision in one way or another. For one, Singaporean does no longer trust the gov and thus not gullible, and therefore treat the gov with grain of salt, whereas the FT which may not be aware of what really happen might just go along with it knowing that they can always alternative to return to mainland.
Ask any sensible Singaporean and they will likely give the same reason.
Dear Daniel
Liberalisation of the world economies based more and more on market principles have resulted in motivation by money and material. Almost no country is immune. ‘Communist’ countries too.
Is this the kind of government we have voted for?
But you are right, no government will rule forever. Nothing is permanent. We all know that.
I think you have the answer already. You may be luckier than I am, I didn’t even have a chance to vote!
But you are certainly wrong about other governments not buying glory with money. You are wrong big time here!!!! Sorry if I sound harsh. If you think ours is bad, you aint see nothing yet elsewhere. And I don’t necessarily mean those ‘banana republics’, I’m referring even to those western developed nations!!!!
I agree our government is stifling, but if you really want to move something, you can. The former Soviet Eastern Bloc countries were in totalitarian rule. Much stricter and much more regimented than in Singapore. Then, you are talking about restricted movements and Central Planning that even fixed distribution of bread and milk. However the citizens continue to meet in secret in pubs and planned revolutions.
Here, we don’t need to plan revolutions. We just need to do what we believe in. The electoral process is already there. Ok, ok, not a very fair one, but we definitely don’t need a revolution to change anything.
I don’t understand why some sections of the community here loves to depend on the government they love to criticise and slam. Why depend on the government? Is that what they want you to believe? If so, you have fallen deep into it. Is it because they are doing too much for you? Elsewhere in the world, citizens don’t depend so much on their government. They form self-help and civic groups and take action. Incidentally, this forum itself is one good example of such a civic group in my opinion. Good work!
Dear Daniel
Sorry forgot to add that the FTs I met, especially from developing countries are very very street smart. They know what is going on. I think you have under-estimated them to be obedient goats.
Singaporeans just do not like PRC nationals. If it was a white man who was playing for us no one would say anything.
Another thing. Find me a singaporean who’s willing to be a professional sportsman and then i’ll say locals have a chance at this.
Be realistic. We are too busy chasing that car/apartment to be running/hitting that ball around. Since there is someone who is doing the dirty work for us, why complain?
We should just sit back and enjoy the show before going to work the next day and continue the race.
I have nothing against immigration if it is to the overall benefit of society. The majority of Singaporeans are descendents of immigrants after all. But I must say I find this whole silver medal thing plain embarassing. I think the whole point of Olympics competition is to show to the world the sporting talent one’s country is able to nurture. Buying one nurtured by another country just so we can claim an olympic medal defeats the point. If anything, it makes us look silly in front of the whole world. - The usual accusation that Singaporeans thing money can buy/solve everything. In effect, China won the gold and silver medals that day. Singapore is small, so we can only focus on the limited areas we are good at. If that doesn’t include sports, so be it. I’d rather be proud of the things we are good at than claim an achievement that is not really ours.
I’m annoyed by the fact that half ot Team Singapore is not 100%. The presence of foreigners in the team goes to show that the govt only care whether we got win a medal or not, and don’t care whether it’s singaporean or foreigner. Even New Zealand, a country of about same population as us, can win 3gold. I think the thing is not whether we have FTs in team singapore, rather Singapore has no sports culture as well, probably due to our way of living which doesn’t promote sports at all. All money spent are effectively a waste of time.
testing
Weird.. my previous post does not seem to post successfully.
We are not alone.
One Quarter of Beijing Olympics Table Tennis Players Are China Born [Click on my username]
I’m so glad that Li Jiawei lost in the sem-finals today. I’m hoping that she will not get any more medal for her singles event. Enuff spent on her and her kind.
I would also suggest that from now on, the venerable Straits Times reports on the activities of these newly-minted “Singaporeans” in “MONEY” section.
long ago, both my grandmothers used to sit and have war stories telling session and we grandchildren would sit on the floor and listened with opened mouth.
Much were told about the millions who die in the hand of MousyToon..etc..
come our times, we talk cocks over coffeeO and beer etc
now - forums, blogs what have…
End of the day, it all boils down to putting X on the voting slip.
no one went around suicide bombing places and hijacking planes, etc
Hope we all stay that way.
And If anyone of us feel that we can contribute to building Singapore to a better place than it already is, do come forward and serve, there are plenty of avenues that we can go - from hospice, voluntary org, etc.
If you can do better that any of the super highly paid Ministers - please do the honour.
walloping away on the keyboard angrily on issues is not going to change anything anyway. It is quite sad to alway be reading lots of angry and unhappy opinions.
cheers to those who posted happy comments. made me happy just reading them.
How about saying something happy or good at something for a change - winning a silver is quite an achievement whether it is now or 48 years ago - surely we can say something nice.
Remember that if you say nice things from you heart - it is like a smile. costs nothing but bring lots of good feeling to others…
An angry word - can cut like a knife and take a long time to heal and only if you know - the wound is a self-inflicted wound.
Cheers
Happy Man.
“63) Gus on August 22nd, 2008 1.02 pm It is quite sad to alway be reading lots of angry and unhappy opinions.”
Hi, you are back again. You have got to get used to it lah as we are starting from a unenviable position where there will be more to come - e.g natural cause and effect lah.
“Much were told about the millions who die in the hand of MousyToon..etc..
come our times, we talk cocks over coffeeO and beer etc.”
Also, try again to get used it lah. Talk cocks over coffeeO and beer are harmless activities that common people can indulge in lah.
There are some people making decisions and affecting a few lives here and there in the cosy and protected comfort of posh offices with perhaps luxurious lunch or dinner spread with smooth cocktail (e.g or wine ?) to go with after the so-called tough decision making session - which is not so uncommon (if you know what I mean).
“How about saying something happy or good at something for a change - winning a silver is quite an achievement whether it is now or 48 years ago - surely we can say something nice.”
I wonder why you must make yourself suffer in the first place by coming here as by know surely you would have learned the unique flavour of this site.
Trashing foreign talents will not solve the problem. Ultimately, if a person wishes to excel in certain things they must make sacrifices along the way. Not many Singaporean parents are willing to let their children do full time in sports. Only when their child are doing badly academically, then this will be a more viable option for them.
“65) loop on August 22nd, 2008 3.18 pm
Trashing foreign talents will not solve the problem.”
Likewise, trashing the alternative views of normal-in-the-street Singapoeans will also not solve the problem, especially with counter-insurging views to make it look that common Singaporeans are the problem, especially after all THESE YEARS they have been made / conditioned to believe that they should leave the real action to the highest level.
What we are experiencing for the world to see is how an obsessed city for personal glory and wealth - at any costs - will eventually lead to.
Can’t wait for the credit to roll.
truth is, we have been conditioned to look at losers as ‘abnormal’, ‘useless’, ‘bum’, ‘don’t deserve handouts’, ‘leeches’, etc.
we have a spirit that can’t accept the….’non religious’ point of view. we want to be a perfect specimen of someone’s idea of GOD.
therefore, we reject satanic losers who sleep on the streets…lol.
( what the obsession with medals is saying… the spirit of this nation can’t accept ‘losers’ as part of their community..:) )
The problem lies in “One World One Dream”. That’s why foreign talents are regarded as own people.
>The problem lies in “One World One Dream”. That’s why foreign talents are >regarded as own people.
That’s good, no?
There is no doubt that the current Olympic silver was bought with well, literally “silver”.
1) Li Jiawei see herself as a China person 中国人 and not a Singaporean.
http://fireopal82.blogspot.com/2008/08/identity-crisis.html
Lee Jiawei: I, myself , am from Beijing and am a China lady (note the use of words China as in 中国人 and not 华人) I hope to be able to, on my motherland…and also my ‘territory’ win a medal.
2) The question is why Singaporeans are not competitive enough to be on the world stage. They got noone to blame, except themselves because all Singaporeans care about are money, money, money and they want it easy, easy, easy. So very few Singaporeans are willing to put their passions into sports and excelled in it.
3) Of course, the sports officials in Singapore do not help. They are as myopic as frogs in the well are. They only care about winning, at all costs and no matter what are the consequences. The question everyone should ask is, willl we be able to produce our own champions. The fact that Singapore need to rely on imported talent goes to show what a pathetic sport planners there are here. But then, these people will not be sacked because the top people in Singapore will never get sacked.
these people are singaporean. they have obtained singaporean citizenships at the expense of their original PRC one. How else would one define being a Singaporean? We can only define it in our own subjective terms that will always exclude some other Singaporeans. And I don’t see any reason to be protective about being Singaporean. Anyone can identify as a Singaporean or apply to obtain a Singaporean citizenship if they are eligible. Shouldn’t we welcome these new Singaporeans who can contribute to Singapore, in just the same way that the US for example welcomes immigrants and shapes its national identity as a melting pot to fit in these newcomers?
In the case of Feng Tianwei, she did get a silver didn’t she? Wouldn’t that mean she would be good enough for the PRC team? How does one top that? I find the argument that she’s only here because she couldn’t make it there in China unplausible.
Instead, it seems to me that most of the complaints are really fuelled by the feeling that Singaporeans are marginalized by these foreign imports. This is a valid point, but we should be clear and upfront about it, instead of denigrating others’ achievements. If these athletes want to play as Singaporeans, even sacrificing their previous homeland and prior affinities and histories they had with their former country, doesn’t that count for something? Isn’t that a testament to the strength of their personal life projects and the dedication and effort they put in to achieve them? What good can it do us to put down such individual human triumphs?
& the winner of the medal is the Straits Times.
It is happening as predicted - Lee gone over, Liu leaving, Li getting married, Feng contemplating…….
One paper is trying to do the damage control - “blessings in disguise” it says, but dear editor sir - please think first how Singapore ping pong got its silver medal in the first place- can it happened without coach Liu ? How insensitive and hurting can one’s writing be in this gracious society.
Let us pray that the fallout will stop now and STTA can find a good replacement coach to maintain the dreams for 2012.