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	<title>Comments on: Poor return on life insurance policies</title>
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		<title>By: Walter Leong</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/08/poor-return-on-life-insurance-policies/comment-page-1/#comment-113016</link>
		<dc:creator>Walter Leong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 05:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1030#comment-113016</guid>
		<description>I invest in several life insurance companies and TM Asia Life and I had enjoyed compounded investment yields of 6.75% p.a. on my past policies which matured in 2005. This is the only company which has never cut it bonuses and even pays compound interest on the accumulated bonus declared. Had Mr Tan invested  with TM Asia Life, he will find out that term insurance is actually the money-maker for life insurance companies, as they need to share 90% of their profits with participating profit policies. As you are probably aware, the bonus declarations by different companies vary from the best to the worst. Some companies don&#039;t even declare any bonus whatsoever - you need to find it out yourself on these companies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I invest in several life insurance companies and TM Asia Life and I had enjoyed compounded investment yields of 6.75% p.a. on my past policies which matured in 2005. This is the only company which has never cut it bonuses and even pays compound interest on the accumulated bonus declared. Had Mr Tan invested  with TM Asia Life, he will find out that term insurance is actually the money-maker for life insurance companies, as they need to share 90% of their profits with participating profit policies. As you are probably aware, the bonus declarations by different companies vary from the best to the worst. Some companies don&#8217;t even declare any bonus whatsoever &#8211; you need to find it out yourself on these companies.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/08/poor-return-on-life-insurance-policies/comment-page-1/#comment-46269</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 08:51:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1030#comment-46269</guid>
		<description>You should look at the protection part not the returns part when you are getting insurance. If you say it is unfair that most of the money of the first 2 year is going to the agent as commission if there&#039;s no money who would work? Would you work for free?

I will illustrate 2 scenario 
You buy a insurance for 200k protection for example and you paid 1000/yr for it but you died 1 year later. Is this fair or unfair for the insurance company?

You buy a insurance 200k protection. 20 years down the road the term policy terminates and you are still alive. Is this fair or unfair to you? Most people would say yes because they would have paid for nothing but look at scenario 1. Would you still say it&#039;s unfair if scenario 1 happens?

You are paying for the PROTECTION in the event anything happens and you still wish to make high returns off it if you pay for it for many years? These kind of things do not happen in real life. Many people say buy term and invest the rest in unit trust. It is not a sure proof way also because end of the day it&#039;s the same thing,you need to depend on the market condition AND you need to do your homework in selecting the funds and do rebalancing else the end result would be low returns still or even negative returns.

The protection amount that you have if you buy insurance versus the amount you pay could be about 100x,you will need to pay 100 years premium before the sum assured is = to the money you have paid. Now they are taking on the RISK,if anything happens to you while you are insured they pay you the sum assured. If nothing happens,they make the money if it&#039;s a 20 yrs term they make the money for 20 yrs if it&#039;s 30 yrs term they make the 30 yrs money.

This is a fair deal to both the consumer and the company and if you do not agree with what i have said there is nothing i can do also. You have the right to think what you wish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You should look at the protection part not the returns part when you are getting insurance. If you say it is unfair that most of the money of the first 2 year is going to the agent as commission if there&#8217;s no money who would work? Would you work for free?</p>
<p>I will illustrate 2 scenario<br />
You buy a insurance for 200k protection for example and you paid 1000/yr for it but you died 1 year later. Is this fair or unfair for the insurance company?</p>
<p>You buy a insurance 200k protection. 20 years down the road the term policy terminates and you are still alive. Is this fair or unfair to you? Most people would say yes because they would have paid for nothing but look at scenario 1. Would you still say it&#8217;s unfair if scenario 1 happens?</p>
<p>You are paying for the PROTECTION in the event anything happens and you still wish to make high returns off it if you pay for it for many years? These kind of things do not happen in real life. Many people say buy term and invest the rest in unit trust. It is not a sure proof way also because end of the day it&#8217;s the same thing,you need to depend on the market condition AND you need to do your homework in selecting the funds and do rebalancing else the end result would be low returns still or even negative returns.</p>
<p>The protection amount that you have if you buy insurance versus the amount you pay could be about 100x,you will need to pay 100 years premium before the sum assured is = to the money you have paid. Now they are taking on the RISK,if anything happens to you while you are insured they pay you the sum assured. If nothing happens,they make the money if it&#8217;s a 20 yrs term they make the money for 20 yrs if it&#8217;s 30 yrs term they make the 30 yrs money.</p>
<p>This is a fair deal to both the consumer and the company and if you do not agree with what i have said there is nothing i can do also. You have the right to think what you wish.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/08/poor-return-on-life-insurance-policies/comment-page-1/#comment-46263</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 08:35:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1030#comment-46263</guid>
		<description>I am an adviser myself so i will just say what i think. I saw a lot of crying foul, capping on commission and complaining throughout the post. There are many different kinds of advisers out there,they talk with you in the hope that you buy from them but who doesn&#039;t would you do anything if you don&#039;t get anything out of it?

Insurance Advisers are just like a distributor for a company,we earn SOLELY by commission,there&#039;s no basic pay. It is just like a shop that you go into and buy a shoe,they are just the distributor.

End of the day it is whether you need insurance or not and i can tell you 1 thing 90% of the people need insurance because we are not super rich. Insurance are MEANT for people not rich because you are using a small amount of money to protect a large sum in the event anything happens. It is NOT meant to be used to make BIG money.

I understand that many are disillusioned about financial planning but 1 thing is for certain,it is still a necessity for everyone that is something no one can denied.

Insurance is not meant to be profited from,so all those ILP or whole life they are not meant to be used as the ONLY retirement instrument you use but they are just 1 of the instrument. 

The key to retirement planning is don&#039;t put all your eggs in 1 basket.  I do not sell whole life but i do still sell ILP because you can still be making money from it it&#039;s just a form of DIVERSIFICATION. If you want big returns go for the US stocks or HSI stocks. If you have the time frame if you have the capital and you are not young go for pure term and do self investing,if you are young then go for ILP and you will still need to do self investing.

No one can deny that everyone of us have to invest or else if you just put your money in the bank it will be eroded by inflation. Never touch your CPF money because the returns for it is more or less guaranteed, why would you want to use a money that has a guaranteed return that is higher than inflation to take risk on? This is something i cannot understand.

End of the day,Adviser advises but you are the one making the decision. I will show my clients the pros and cons and they will decide,other advisers may choose to omit out some information but these are information that you can find out if you just ask around. You are dealing with LONG TERM commitment and on money would you decide on something without even doing some homework?

Food for thought for all of you</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am an adviser myself so i will just say what i think. I saw a lot of crying foul, capping on commission and complaining throughout the post. There are many different kinds of advisers out there,they talk with you in the hope that you buy from them but who doesn&#8217;t would you do anything if you don&#8217;t get anything out of it?</p>
<p>Insurance Advisers are just like a distributor for a company,we earn SOLELY by commission,there&#8217;s no basic pay. It is just like a shop that you go into and buy a shoe,they are just the distributor.</p>
<p>End of the day it is whether you need insurance or not and i can tell you 1 thing 90% of the people need insurance because we are not super rich. Insurance are MEANT for people not rich because you are using a small amount of money to protect a large sum in the event anything happens. It is NOT meant to be used to make BIG money.</p>
<p>I understand that many are disillusioned about financial planning but 1 thing is for certain,it is still a necessity for everyone that is something no one can denied.</p>
<p>Insurance is not meant to be profited from,so all those ILP or whole life they are not meant to be used as the ONLY retirement instrument you use but they are just 1 of the instrument. </p>
<p>The key to retirement planning is don&#8217;t put all your eggs in 1 basket.  I do not sell whole life but i do still sell ILP because you can still be making money from it it&#8217;s just a form of DIVERSIFICATION. If you want big returns go for the US stocks or HSI stocks. If you have the time frame if you have the capital and you are not young go for pure term and do self investing,if you are young then go for ILP and you will still need to do self investing.</p>
<p>No one can deny that everyone of us have to invest or else if you just put your money in the bank it will be eroded by inflation. Never touch your CPF money because the returns for it is more or less guaranteed, why would you want to use a money that has a guaranteed return that is higher than inflation to take risk on? This is something i cannot understand.</p>
<p>End of the day,Adviser advises but you are the one making the decision. I will show my clients the pros and cons and they will decide,other advisers may choose to omit out some information but these are information that you can find out if you just ask around. You are dealing with LONG TERM commitment and on money would you decide on something without even doing some homework?</p>
<p>Food for thought for all of you</p>
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		<title>By: Tan Kin Lian</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/08/poor-return-on-life-insurance-policies/comment-page-1/#comment-22080</link>
		<dc:creator>Tan Kin Lian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 04:09:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1030#comment-22080</guid>
		<description>Hi 2shock (#38)
Do not surrender your policies. AIA is okay. They have a separate fund and does not depend on AIG. If AIG gets into trouble, they will sell AIA to another strong financial institution. All the best.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi 2shock (#38)<br />
Do not surrender your policies. AIA is okay. They have a separate fund and does not depend on AIG. If AIG gets into trouble, they will sell AIA to another strong financial institution. All the best.</p>
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		<title>By: 2shock</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/08/poor-return-on-life-insurance-policies/comment-page-1/#comment-21609</link>
		<dc:creator>2shock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1030#comment-21609</guid>
		<description>Dear Mr. Tan,
i was shock when i return from overseas that all my insurance plans with aia are in hot oil!!!  i would appreciate your advice how could i minimize my loss. i have 1 life plan, 3 20+ years endowment plans and 3 single premium plans.  If AIG goes blast, what can i expect from these plans.
What if i want to buy from other insurance co?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Mr. Tan,<br />
i was shock when i return from overseas that all my insurance plans with aia are in hot oil!!!  i would appreciate your advice how could i minimize my loss. i have 1 life plan, 3 20+ years endowment plans and 3 single premium plans.  If AIG goes blast, what can i expect from these plans.<br />
What if i want to buy from other insurance co?</p>
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		<title>By: Tan Kin Lian</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/08/poor-return-on-life-insurance-policies/comment-page-1/#comment-21549</link>
		<dc:creator>Tan Kin Lian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 23:07:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1030#comment-21549</guid>
		<description>Extracted from: www.tankinlian.blogspot.com

Several AIA policyholders have asked my advice. They are worried that AIA may be affected by the collapse of AIG. They asked if they should surrender their AIA policy now and receive the surrender value now.

My advice is:

&gt; AIA has a separate policyholder&#039;s fund covering its liability to its policyholders in Singapore.
&gt; To my knowledge, this fund is solvent and is not affected by the problem faced by AIG
&gt; There is no need to panic and surrender the AIA policies at this time
&gt; Even if this fund is in trouble, there is a Policyholder&#039;s Guarantee Fund managed by MAS that can take care of most of the liability (maybe 90% or more).
&gt; It is better to wait for any official announcement from MAS

I hope that my comments are correct and can help to allay the fears of AIA policyholders</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Extracted from: <a href="http://www.tankinlian.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.tankinlian.blogspot.com</a></p>
<p>Several AIA policyholders have asked my advice. They are worried that AIA may be affected by the collapse of AIG. They asked if they should surrender their AIA policy now and receive the surrender value now.</p>
<p>My advice is:</p>
<p>&gt; AIA has a separate policyholder&#8217;s fund covering its liability to its policyholders in Singapore.<br />
&gt; To my knowledge, this fund is solvent and is not affected by the problem faced by AIG<br />
&gt; There is no need to panic and surrender the AIA policies at this time<br />
&gt; Even if this fund is in trouble, there is a Policyholder&#8217;s Guarantee Fund managed by MAS that can take care of most of the liability (maybe 90% or more).<br />
&gt; It is better to wait for any official announcement from MAS</p>
<p>I hope that my comments are correct and can help to allay the fears of AIA policyholders</p>
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		<title>By: Tan Kin Lian</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/08/poor-return-on-life-insurance-policies/comment-page-1/#comment-20461</link>
		<dc:creator>Tan Kin Lian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 16:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1030#comment-20461</guid>
		<description>Hi Life insurance Canada (#35)

There are virtually no tax deduction for life insurnace in Singapoer. It does not make sense for consumers to buy life insurance for savings, especially as up to two years of premium is taken away for marketing expenses. In other countries, there is tax reduction to offset this upfront cost. But not in Singapore.

An honest insurance agent, acting in the best interest of the client, will recommend a low cost term insurance plan. But this does not give much commission to the agent. So, the agent (in order to surviev and prosper) has to sell high cost products and hide the poor value from the customer. It is a win-lose-lose situation (win for the dishonest agent, lose for the honest agent, lose for the customer)..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Life insurance Canada (#35)</p>
<p>There are virtually no tax deduction for life insurnace in Singapoer. It does not make sense for consumers to buy life insurance for savings, especially as up to two years of premium is taken away for marketing expenses. In other countries, there is tax reduction to offset this upfront cost. But not in Singapore.</p>
<p>An honest insurance agent, acting in the best interest of the client, will recommend a low cost term insurance plan. But this does not give much commission to the agent. So, the agent (in order to surviev and prosper) has to sell high cost products and hide the poor value from the customer. It is a win-lose-lose situation (win for the dishonest agent, lose for the honest agent, lose for the customer)..</p>
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		<title>By: Life Insurance Canada</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/08/poor-return-on-life-insurance-policies/comment-page-1/#comment-20454</link>
		<dc:creator>Life Insurance Canada</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 13:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1030#comment-20454</guid>
		<description>As a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.myspace.com/torontolifeinsurance&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Toronto life insurance broker&lt;/a&gt; I openly admit - life insurance is definitely not very powerful investment tool. Clients have to understand, the main purpose of insurance is to be INSURED - to get some money after death/accident. The saving part of policies is just a side product. Some people just don&#039;t have mood/skill/guts to enter stock markets, to buy bonds or whatever to save money. For this situations, life insurance provides satisfactory performance (especially when we count tax reductions too). But as you said, there are many expenses for insurance companies which are after all reflected by lower dividends...
Regards, 
Lorne</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a <a href="http://www.myspace.com/torontolifeinsurance" rel="nofollow">Toronto life insurance broker</a> I openly admit &#8211; life insurance is definitely not very powerful investment tool. Clients have to understand, the main purpose of insurance is to be INSURED &#8211; to get some money after death/accident. The saving part of policies is just a side product. Some people just don&#8217;t have mood/skill/guts to enter stock markets, to buy bonds or whatever to save money. For this situations, life insurance provides satisfactory performance (especially when we count tax reductions too). But as you said, there are many expenses for insurance companies which are after all reflected by lower dividends&#8230;<br />
Regards,<br />
Lorne</p>
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		<title>By: zhummmeng</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/08/poor-return-on-life-insurance-policies/comment-page-1/#comment-20398</link>
		<dc:creator>zhummmeng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 04:05:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1030#comment-20398</guid>
		<description>Mr. Concern,
it is no point arguing till the cow comes home if you rely on your  incompetent insurance agent for &#039;untruths&#039;  Get your insurance actuary to give you the projection till you are 80 and you can see how your cash value decreases..
Have you watched and listened to the video clip by Suze Orman?

Let me say it once more.
Regular ILPs are known as variable whole life. They are designed to mimic 
traditional whole life except that the investment component you have a say. For traditional WL you have no say. Your investment is thrown into the &#039;pot&#039; of portfolio with the rest of other policyholders, fixed for everyone. Only one size and it is such to fit everyone&#039;s goal, risk and time horizon.Is it a good idea? As you say everybody got different needs, right? But yours is lumped with the others who may have different needs from yours, right?
Mr. Concern, if all those information came from your agent, I am afraid you need to consider changing  your agent because he or she is dishonest or incompetent.
Check my facts out with a trusted actuary too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Concern,<br />
it is no point arguing till the cow comes home if you rely on your  incompetent insurance agent for &#8216;untruths&#8217;  Get your insurance actuary to give you the projection till you are 80 and you can see how your cash value decreases..<br />
Have you watched and listened to the video clip by Suze Orman?</p>
<p>Let me say it once more.<br />
Regular ILPs are known as variable whole life. They are designed to mimic<br />
traditional whole life except that the investment component you have a say. For traditional WL you have no say. Your investment is thrown into the &#8216;pot&#8217; of portfolio with the rest of other policyholders, fixed for everyone. Only one size and it is such to fit everyone&#8217;s goal, risk and time horizon.Is it a good idea? As you say everybody got different needs, right? But yours is lumped with the others who may have different needs from yours, right?<br />
Mr. Concern, if all those information came from your agent, I am afraid you need to consider changing  your agent because he or she is dishonest or incompetent.<br />
Check my facts out with a trusted actuary too.</p>
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		<title>By: Tan Kin Lian</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/08/poor-return-on-life-insurance-policies/comment-page-1/#comment-20366</link>
		<dc:creator>Tan Kin Lian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 21:36:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1030#comment-20366</guid>
		<description>Hi Concern (#32)

Life insurance products, including whole life and investment-linked products, can be designed to be good for consumers.

The problem is that these products are designed to pay high commission to the agent and give poor value to consumers. This high cost is not disclosed to the consumer.

Up to two years of the premium are taken away to pay the commission and marketing expenses. If the monthly premium is $300, the charges can be as much as $7,200. 

This is a lot of money to be taken away from the unsuspecting policyholder, and is not told to the policyholder at the point of sale. This fact is hidden in the Benefit Illustration among 20 pages of confusing information.

If the charges are kept at a reasonable level, say a maximum of half year&#039;s premium (which is still a lot of money) and this is clearly disclosed to the policyholder, then a whole life ,endowment or investment linked policy can be considered to be suitable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Concern (#32)</p>
<p>Life insurance products, including whole life and investment-linked products, can be designed to be good for consumers.</p>
<p>The problem is that these products are designed to pay high commission to the agent and give poor value to consumers. This high cost is not disclosed to the consumer.</p>
<p>Up to two years of the premium are taken away to pay the commission and marketing expenses. If the monthly premium is $300, the charges can be as much as $7,200. </p>
<p>This is a lot of money to be taken away from the unsuspecting policyholder, and is not told to the policyholder at the point of sale. This fact is hidden in the Benefit Illustration among 20 pages of confusing information.</p>
<p>If the charges are kept at a reasonable level, say a maximum of half year&#8217;s premium (which is still a lot of money) and this is clearly disclosed to the policyholder, then a whole life ,endowment or investment linked policy can be considered to be suitable.</p>
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		<title>By: Concern</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/08/poor-return-on-life-insurance-policies/comment-page-1/#comment-20357</link>
		<dc:creator>Concern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 17:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1030#comment-20357</guid>
		<description>&quot;When the mortality charge exceeds the premium after 65 the difference comes from your cash value and over time when mortality charge increases faster than the cash value accumulation the rate of growth (ROG) slows down and when overtaken by mortality charge it becomes negative.&quot;

Hi I think this statement is grossly incorrect for a WL plan. The ROG of cash value accumulation can never be negative. You might wish to seek an opinon from a qualified actuarist  You statement is true for an ILP.

There are many comparisons between ILP, WL and BITR. However, the comparisons are difficult as each plan risk is different. BITR looks better but it goes as far as it looks on paper. Why the comparison is flawed?

1) The insurance term coverage is different for BITR(30 years or capped to certain number of years)  with ILP and WL (Whole Life).

As such, the cost of insurance is different significantly. It makes comparison difficult unless the term insurance is similar to a whole life.

2) BITR may sound better, however if an individual does not invest or invest correctly to a &quot;correct&quot; fund, he might ends up badly or worse off.

3) Remember, you can blame the agent if your ILP investment isnt going as well, but BITR you cannot blame anyone but yourself. People with no financial background should seek help. An analogy: Its like climbing a mountain. You know as long as you climb up you probably will reach the top, but if you do it on your own, do you know the dangers of each mountain. Without a qualified guide or experience, it could be very dangerous to be use just internet videos, internet comments or other sources to climb the mountain. Are they reliable?

BITR and WL, ILP cater to different needs and one should understand the risks for each strategy. 

Remember, insurance was a very good form of savings in the 90s but not in 00s, what will happen next in the future is anyone guess? 

 Should one use soley a BITR strategy? You will probably end up in a frying pan if 
your execution of this strategy is not right/incomplete.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;When the mortality charge exceeds the premium after 65 the difference comes from your cash value and over time when mortality charge increases faster than the cash value accumulation the rate of growth (ROG) slows down and when overtaken by mortality charge it becomes negative.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hi I think this statement is grossly incorrect for a WL plan. The ROG of cash value accumulation can never be negative. You might wish to seek an opinon from a qualified actuarist  You statement is true for an ILP.</p>
<p>There are many comparisons between ILP, WL and BITR. However, the comparisons are difficult as each plan risk is different. BITR looks better but it goes as far as it looks on paper. Why the comparison is flawed?</p>
<p>1) The insurance term coverage is different for BITR(30 years or capped to certain number of years)  with ILP and WL (Whole Life).</p>
<p>As such, the cost of insurance is different significantly. It makes comparison difficult unless the term insurance is similar to a whole life.</p>
<p>2) BITR may sound better, however if an individual does not invest or invest correctly to a &#8220;correct&#8221; fund, he might ends up badly or worse off.</p>
<p>3) Remember, you can blame the agent if your ILP investment isnt going as well, but BITR you cannot blame anyone but yourself. People with no financial background should seek help. An analogy: Its like climbing a mountain. You know as long as you climb up you probably will reach the top, but if you do it on your own, do you know the dangers of each mountain. Without a qualified guide or experience, it could be very dangerous to be use just internet videos, internet comments or other sources to climb the mountain. Are they reliable?</p>
<p>BITR and WL, ILP cater to different needs and one should understand the risks for each strategy. </p>
<p>Remember, insurance was a very good form of savings in the 90s but not in 00s, what will happen next in the future is anyone guess? </p>
<p> Should one use soley a BITR strategy? You will probably end up in a frying pan if<br />
your execution of this strategy is not right/incomplete.</p>
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		<title>By: zhummmeng</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/08/poor-return-on-life-insurance-policies/comment-page-1/#comment-20269</link>
		<dc:creator>zhummmeng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 16:59:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1030#comment-20269</guid>
		<description>Mr. Concern, watch this video by Suze Orman. about mortality charge

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfI6-KrBE7E&amp;feature=related</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Concern, watch this video by Suze Orman. about mortality charge</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfI6-KrBE7E&amp;feature=related" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfI6-KrBE7E&amp;feature=related</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: zhummmeng</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/08/poor-return-on-life-insurance-policies/comment-page-1/#comment-20268</link>
		<dc:creator>zhummmeng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 16:55:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1030#comment-20268</guid>
		<description>Your agent is either lying or he doesn&#039;t  know. 
All companies can. Which is your insurance company? You can get the company to give illustration beyond 65..
let me explain once again. Your premium remains constant through out  but not the mortality charge. When the mortality charge exceeds the premium after 65 the difference comes from your cash value and over time when mortality charge increases faster than the cash value  accumulation the rate of growth slows down and when overtaken by mortality charge it becomes negative. The mortality charge is not fixed and it is the same for anyone of  the same age  regardless of  when you take up the plan. The premium is made of 2 components , the mortality and the investment or saving.
If your agent insists  that mortality charge doesn&#039;t increase for WL it is time you consider changing your agent,  taking the advice of Suze Orman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your agent is either lying or he doesn&#8217;t  know.<br />
All companies can. Which is your insurance company? You can get the company to give illustration beyond 65..<br />
let me explain once again. Your premium remains constant through out  but not the mortality charge. When the mortality charge exceeds the premium after 65 the difference comes from your cash value and over time when mortality charge increases faster than the cash value  accumulation the rate of growth slows down and when overtaken by mortality charge it becomes negative. The mortality charge is not fixed and it is the same for anyone of  the same age  regardless of  when you take up the plan. The premium is made of 2 components , the mortality and the investment or saving.<br />
If your agent insists  that mortality charge doesn&#8217;t increase for WL it is time you consider changing your agent,  taking the advice of Suze Orman.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Concern</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/08/poor-return-on-life-insurance-policies/comment-page-1/#comment-20266</link>
		<dc:creator>Concern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 16:23:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1030#comment-20266</guid>
		<description>My agent told me that he is not able  to churn the policy illustations after the age 65 because the system doesnt allow him to do so. As such I could not verify. But he added that the mortality charge for WL is constant but significantly higher compared  to ILP (at the beginning). ILP mortalilty charges increases with age</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My agent told me that he is not able  to churn the policy illustations after the age 65 because the system doesnt allow him to do so. As such I could not verify. But he added that the mortality charge for WL is constant but significantly higher compared  to ILP (at the beginning). ILP mortalilty charges increases with age</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: zhummmeng</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/08/poor-return-on-life-insurance-policies/comment-page-1/#comment-20238</link>
		<dc:creator>zhummmeng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 10:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1030#comment-20238</guid>
		<description>I have many times said that there is a bomb in WL too. The mortality charge is charged on yearly basis , or YRT like the ILPs 
BTW, regular ILPS is also known as variable whole life . It works exactly like whole life except that the investment  component is in ILPs of your choice and traditional WL is lumped together or pooled with the rest of the policyholders without regards of the individual policyholder&#039;s risk tolerance, time horizon and goal. Traditional WL is disadvantageous becuase of this. You don&#039;t have control.
The mortality charge increases with age for both traditional and regular ILPs. 
If you have a traditional WL, you can observe the rate of increase of the absolute cash value slows down after 65 years old, ie. it means the rate of return is decreasing . Better still if you know how to calculate just check the rate of return after 65.
There are many things your agent never disclosed to you.It was never his or her interest to disclose the pros and cons.He or she disclosed what you liked to hear 
ONLY, perhaps not just  pros but lies too.This is selling and selling depends a lot on lies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have many times said that there is a bomb in WL too. The mortality charge is charged on yearly basis , or YRT like the ILPs<br />
BTW, regular ILPS is also known as variable whole life . It works exactly like whole life except that the investment  component is in ILPs of your choice and traditional WL is lumped together or pooled with the rest of the policyholders without regards of the individual policyholder&#8217;s risk tolerance, time horizon and goal. Traditional WL is disadvantageous becuase of this. You don&#8217;t have control.<br />
The mortality charge increases with age for both traditional and regular ILPs.<br />
If you have a traditional WL, you can observe the rate of increase of the absolute cash value slows down after 65 years old, ie. it means the rate of return is decreasing . Better still if you know how to calculate just check the rate of return after 65.<br />
There are many things your agent never disclosed to you.It was never his or her interest to disclose the pros and cons.He or she disclosed what you liked to hear<br />
ONLY, perhaps not just  pros but lies too.This is selling and selling depends a lot on lies.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Concern</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/08/poor-return-on-life-insurance-policies/comment-page-1/#comment-20236</link>
		<dc:creator>Concern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 09:39:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1030#comment-20236</guid>
		<description>&quot;Your cash value is paying for the the insurance cost or mortality charge which gets bigger and bigger as you age. It may come to a time when the cash value is showing negative growth. It may be wise to cash it out to fund your retirement and not those insurance agents who bullshitted you to keep it until claim or something happens.If you have an H&amp;S this will suffice.&quot;

Could you clarify if the statement is true. As you know that the mortality charges increases with age is for ILP but not for WL. WL charges a fix rate across. The cash value should increase with age.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Your cash value is paying for the the insurance cost or mortality charge which gets bigger and bigger as you age. It may come to a time when the cash value is showing negative growth. It may be wise to cash it out to fund your retirement and not those insurance agents who bullshitted you to keep it until claim or something happens.If you have an H&amp;S this will suffice.&#8221;</p>
<p>Could you clarify if the statement is true. As you know that the mortality charges increases with age is for ILP but not for WL. WL charges a fix rate across. The cash value should increase with age.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: zhummmeng</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/08/poor-return-on-life-insurance-policies/comment-page-1/#comment-20220</link>
		<dc:creator>zhummmeng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 06:59:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1030#comment-20220</guid>
		<description>Mr. Tai, that is good idea and better alternative to buying a limited payment WL although I don&#039;t like both.
Yes you are still covered but on reduced sum assured. I think it is ok if you are already  60 years old and don&#039;t need so much coverage.
However, it is never made known to WL policyholders by insurance agents and the company that you don&#039;t actually stop paying. You are paying but not directly by you.
Your cash value is paying for the the insurance cost or mortality charge which gets bigger and bigger as you age. It may come to a time when the cash value is showing negative growth. It may be wise to cash it out to fund your retirement and not those insurance agents who bullshitted you to keep it until claim or something happens.If you have an H&amp;S this will suffice.
If your goal is to pass it to your next generation and you don&#039;t need money for retirement it is a good idea  as a legacy. Alternatively, sell it to your children and let them pay the premium until you die. It may be a good investemnt for them.
Unfortunately many many people need money for retirement and the company is so HAPPY that  you  cash it out and some companies even pay you extra 5% to cash it out for an annuity . Why? I f every policyholder keeps until claim the company  will be bankrupt. That is also why insurance companies are AFRAID of  life settlement trading or second hand life insurance trade.
Hope that life settlement business will pick up in Singapore using local insurance companies&#039;  WL products as investment. I wonder the insurance companies and their agents  will change the tune if it really happens</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Tai, that is good idea and better alternative to buying a limited payment WL although I don&#8217;t like both.<br />
Yes you are still covered but on reduced sum assured. I think it is ok if you are already  60 years old and don&#8217;t need so much coverage.<br />
However, it is never made known to WL policyholders by insurance agents and the company that you don&#8217;t actually stop paying. You are paying but not directly by you.<br />
Your cash value is paying for the the insurance cost or mortality charge which gets bigger and bigger as you age. It may come to a time when the cash value is showing negative growth. It may be wise to cash it out to fund your retirement and not those insurance agents who bullshitted you to keep it until claim or something happens.If you have an H&amp;S this will suffice.<br />
If your goal is to pass it to your next generation and you don&#8217;t need money for retirement it is a good idea  as a legacy. Alternatively, sell it to your children and let them pay the premium until you die. It may be a good investemnt for them.<br />
Unfortunately many many people need money for retirement and the company is so HAPPY that  you  cash it out and some companies even pay you extra 5% to cash it out for an annuity . Why? I f every policyholder keeps until claim the company  will be bankrupt. That is also why insurance companies are AFRAID of  life settlement trading or second hand life insurance trade.<br />
Hope that life settlement business will pick up in Singapore using local insurance companies&#8217;  WL products as investment. I wonder the insurance companies and their agents  will change the tune if it really happens</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tai Wing Hung</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/08/poor-return-on-life-insurance-policies/comment-page-1/#comment-20211</link>
		<dc:creator>Tai Wing Hung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 06:08:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1030#comment-20211</guid>
		<description>What about converting policies to paid up policies so as to continue receiving some coverage while avoid to continue paying into such policies? Say for policies that have been kept for 10 years?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about converting policies to paid up policies so as to continue receiving some coverage while avoid to continue paying into such policies? Say for policies that have been kept for 10 years?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Angles</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/08/poor-return-on-life-insurance-policies/comment-page-1/#comment-20046</link>
		<dc:creator>Angles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 17:30:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1030#comment-20046</guid>
		<description>AIA one of the agent sell insurance to her own brother, she put her own name in the nominaton forms instead,  her brother did request to nominate his father&#039;s name.
This woman surname is Tan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AIA one of the agent sell insurance to her own brother, she put her own name in the nominaton forms instead,  her brother did request to nominate his father&#8217;s name.<br />
This woman surname is Tan.</p>
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		<title>By: zhummmeng</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/08/poor-return-on-life-insurance-policies/comment-page-1/#comment-19918</link>
		<dc:creator>zhummmeng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 14:24:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1030#comment-19918</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think MAS is interested to protect the interest of the consumers..You can see whatever notices, directives or guidelines issued all this time  were supposedly to protect consumers and to ensure  compliance  by sellers and manufacturers to bring about a fair dealing  but they are dead letters issued for show , for the sake of cosmetic makeover to make FAA look more &#039;garang&#039; and bulky . Where is the enforcement? The truth is they are protecting the financial institutions to fleece the poor and elderly public every day..
 Never before that you see so  many funny funny products, exotic products once used to be esoteric products for the well heeled now for the  blur blur man in the street. Never before that the insurance companies issue &quot;hybrid&quot; cash back refund , sunny or rainy day complex products which the public hardly understand. How on earth these products  passed through  the so called stringent control and evaluation of MAS?
To date how many rogue financial advisers and insurance agents have been dealt with? &quot;Ten fingers count cannot finish&quot; and yet when you  throw a stone you are bound to  hit one rogue insurance agent. This is how rampant malpractices are and yet in MAS website only a few were brought to task and prosecuted.
What is the point of  mystery shopping? Is it an exercise to tickle the insurance salesmen or some kind of sexual amusement for MAS stafft. Where is the complaint mechanism for the public? Where are the eyes and ears for feedback from the ground? You only get feed backs from the manufacturers, the financial institutions on how to fleece more consumers to make them fatter.The dialogue is with the sellers .What about the buyers? You think&#039; money sense&#039; is enough to educate the consumers? After the &#039;money sense&#039; you leave the consumers to the wolves and tell them it is  &quot;Caveat Emptor&quot;...The old lady or the poor man know nothing about Caveat Emptor. They know they need to pass their retirement years and for them money is always no enough and yet they are thrown into the Caveat Emptor arena to be devoured by the predator insurance agents and the bank consultants. What protection do they get from MAS? Any insurance like bank deposit?
ON whose side  is MAS? If it is for the sellers then we need one for the buyers.
The current CASE is also  toothless , not much bite it can  give. The Consumer protection Act has limits and it is blaming the tribunal for it.
Consumers, the odds are stacked high against you. You need other means to strike back for your rights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think MAS is interested to protect the interest of the consumers..You can see whatever notices, directives or guidelines issued all this time  were supposedly to protect consumers and to ensure  compliance  by sellers and manufacturers to bring about a fair dealing  but they are dead letters issued for show , for the sake of cosmetic makeover to make FAA look more &#8216;garang&#8217; and bulky . Where is the enforcement? The truth is they are protecting the financial institutions to fleece the poor and elderly public every day..<br />
 Never before that you see so  many funny funny products, exotic products once used to be esoteric products for the well heeled now for the  blur blur man in the street. Never before that the insurance companies issue &#8220;hybrid&#8221; cash back refund , sunny or rainy day complex products which the public hardly understand. How on earth these products  passed through  the so called stringent control and evaluation of MAS?<br />
To date how many rogue financial advisers and insurance agents have been dealt with? &#8220;Ten fingers count cannot finish&#8221; and yet when you  throw a stone you are bound to  hit one rogue insurance agent. This is how rampant malpractices are and yet in MAS website only a few were brought to task and prosecuted.<br />
What is the point of  mystery shopping? Is it an exercise to tickle the insurance salesmen or some kind of sexual amusement for MAS stafft. Where is the complaint mechanism for the public? Where are the eyes and ears for feedback from the ground? You only get feed backs from the manufacturers, the financial institutions on how to fleece more consumers to make them fatter.The dialogue is with the sellers .What about the buyers? You think&#8217; money sense&#8217; is enough to educate the consumers? After the &#8216;money sense&#8217; you leave the consumers to the wolves and tell them it is  &#8220;Caveat Emptor&#8221;&#8230;The old lady or the poor man know nothing about Caveat Emptor. They know they need to pass their retirement years and for them money is always no enough and yet they are thrown into the Caveat Emptor arena to be devoured by the predator insurance agents and the bank consultants. What protection do they get from MAS? Any insurance like bank deposit?<br />
ON whose side  is MAS? If it is for the sellers then we need one for the buyers.<br />
The current CASE is also  toothless , not much bite it can  give. The Consumer protection Act has limits and it is blaming the tribunal for it.<br />
Consumers, the odds are stacked high against you. You need other means to strike back for your rights.</p>
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