Singaporeans want by-election in Jurong GRC
Wednesday, 27 August 2008, 3:00 pm | 306 views
Update: Parliament rejects motion to fine-tune electoral system. “PM Lee said Singapore must never blindly follow others.” – Channel NewsAsia. NMP Siew Kum Hong, who helped with the poll, mentioned the poll results in Parliament today.
Watch the video of Mr Siew’s speech here – TOC TV.
The following is a media release by The Online Citizen to the local media.
Singapore, 27 August 2008 – Internet portal The Online Citizen (www.theonlinecitizen.com) today published the results of a street poll on the question of whether a by-election should be held in the Jurong Group Representation Constituency (GRC), with 60.1% of all respondents who had an opinion saying that one should be held.
Dr. Ong Chit Chung, a Member of Parliament (MP) for Jurong GRC, passed away on 14 July 2008. Since then, the Government has stated that the law does not require it to hold a by-election, and it does not intend to do so. Instead, the remaining four MPs for Jurong GRC will take turns to cover for the duties of the late Dr. Ong.
Two Nominated Members of Parliament, Professor Thio Li-Ann and Dr. Loo Choon Yong, have filed a motion for Parliament to debate the question of when a by-election should be held. This debate is expected to take place over 26 and 27 August 2008.
The Online Citizen decided to conduct the street poll, to ascertain what Singaporeans actually thought. A team of volunteers conducted the poll on 23 August 2008, in different parts of Jurong GRC. The findings of the poll are enclosed.
A total of 478 Singapore citizens were polled, of whom 312 (65.3%) were residents of Jurong GRC and 166 (34.7%) were not. 122 respondents (25.5%) did not know whether a by-election should be held. Of the remainder, 214 (44.8% of all respondents, or 60.1% of those with an opinion) stated that a by-election should be held in Jurong GRC, while 142 (29.7% of all respondents, or 39.9% of those with an opinion) disagreed.
Of the 312 residents of Jurong GRC polled, 85 (27.2%) did not know whether a by-election should be held. 129 residents (41.3% of all residents, or 56.8% of those with an opinion) thought that a by-election should be held in Jurong GRC, and 98 (31.4% of all residents, or 43.2% of those with an opinion) did not think so.
Of the further 166 persons polled who were not residents of Jurong GRC, 37 (22.3%) did not know whether a by-election should be held. 85 non-residents (51.2% of all non-residents, or 65.9% of those with an opinion) felt that a by-election should be held in Jurong GRC, and 44 (26.5% of all non-residents, or 34.1% of those with an opinion) did not think so.
“We decided to do the poll because no one was doing it – getting the opinion of the people most involved or affected by the way their constituency is run, the people of Jurong GRC,” said Andrew Loh, Deputy Editor of The Online Citizen. “Although it was a simple poll of 2 questions, it gives a reasonable feel of what the people of Jurong GRC think about the issue of having a by-election there, in the wake of the passing of one of its MPs, Dr Ong Chit Chung. 478 Singaporeans is a decent number to poll, considering our very limited resources.”
The Online Citizen hopes to work on more projects of such nature, to directly convey the true opinions of Singaporeans on the ground.
About theonlinecitizen.com
The Online Citizen is a blogsite run by volunteer Singaporeans sharing their views and experiences on current affairs and issues of concern.
FINDINGS OF STREET POLL CONDUCTED BY THE ONLINE CITIZEN ON 23 AUGUST 2008
SHOULD THERE BE A BY-ELECTION IN JURONG GRC?
Executive summary
On Saturday 23 August 2008, theonlinecitizen.com (TOC) conducted a street poll to find out Singaporeans’ views on whether there should be a by-election in Jurong GRC, in light of the passing away of Member of Parliament Dr. Ong Chit Chung.
The key findings of the poll are as follows:
§ <!–[endif]–>A total of 478 Singapore citizens were polled, of whom 312 (65.3%) were residents of Jurong GRC and 166 (34.7%) were not. 122 respondents (25.5%) did not know whether a by-election should be held. Of the remainder, 214 (44.8% of all respondents, or 60.1% of those with an opinion) stated that a by-election should be held in Jurong GRC, while 142 (29.7% of all respondents, or 39.9% of those with an opinion) disagreed.
§ <!–[endif]–>Of the 312 residents of Jurong GRC polled, 85 (27.2%) did not know whether a by-election should be held. 129 residents (41.3% of all residents, or 56.8% of those with an opinion) thought that a by-election should be held in Jurong GRC, and 98 (31.4% of all residents, or 43.2% of those with an opinion) did not think so.
§ <!–[endif]–>Of the further 166 persons polled who were not residents of Jurong GRC, 37 (22.3%) did not know whether a by-election should be held. 85 non-residents (51.2% of all non-residents, or 65.9% of those with an opinion) felt that a by-election should be held in Jurong GRC, and 44 (26.5% of all non-residents, or 34.1% of those with an opinion) did not think so.
Methodology
A team of volunteers hit different parts of Jurong GRC to ask Singapore citizens two questions:
1. Are you a resident of Jurong GRC?
2. Dr. Ong Chit Chung passed away recently. Do you think that there should be a by-election in Jurong GRC?
Only answers from respondents who identified themselves as Singapore citizens were recorded. No answers were recorded from those who identified themselves as not being Singapore citizens. Respondents were not asked to verify their citizenship.
The poll was strictly anonymous, and no personal particulars were recorded. There was no systematic sampling of respondents, and selection of respondents was entirely random.
There was no attempt made to ensure, and TOC does not represent, that the sample of respondents used by the poll was statistically valid and/or representative of Singaporeans or any other group. To the extent that there was any choice in the location of the polling, it was only to maximize pedestrian traffic for pollsters to approach.
Detailed results
The following tables set out the detailed results and findings of the street poll:
TABLE A
Breakdown of respondents
|
|
Total |
%age |
|
Singapore citizens |
478 |
100.0% |
|
Residents of Jurong GRC |
312 |
65.3% |
|
Non-residents of Jurong GRC |
166 |
34.7% |
TABLE B
Residents and non-residents of Jurong GRC combined
|
|
Total |
%age |
|
Responses to question: “Do you think that there should be a by-election in Jurong GRC?” |
478 |
100.0% |
|
Yes |
214 |
44.8% |
|
No |
142 |
29.7% |
|
Don’t know |
122 |
25.5% |
|
Only considering “Yes” and “No” responses |
||
|
Total “Yes” and “No” responses |
356 |
100.0% |
|
Yes |
214 |
60.1% |
|
No |
142 |
39.9% |
TABLE C
Residents of Jurong GRC only
|
|
Total |
%age |
|
Responses to question: “Do you think that there should be a by-election in Jurong GRC?” |
312 |
100.0% |
|
Yes |
129 |
41.3% |
|
No |
98 |
31.4% |
|
Don’t know |
85 |
27.2% |
|
Only considering “Yes” and “No” responses |
||
|
Total “Yes” and “No” responses |
227 |
100.0% |
|
Yes |
129 |
56.8% |
|
No |
98 |
43.2% |
TABLE D
Non-residents of Jurong GRC only
|
|
Total |
%age |
|
Responses to question: “Do you think that there should be a by-election in Jurong GRC?” |
166 |
100.0% |
|
Yes |
85 |
51.2% |
|
No |
44 |
26.5% |
|
Don’t know |
37 |
22.3% |
|
Only considering “Yes” and “No” responses |
||
|
Total “Yes” and “No” responses |
129 |
100.0% |
|
Yes |
85 |
65.9% |
|
No |
44 |
34.1% |
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Really a great and rare effort in Singapore. You did a very good job on the poll. It is only sad that non-profit blog websites have to do the job normal newspapers do i other countries. I think the result should motivate the government to act!
Good attempt. That at least is a little more credible than the usual opinions we see on this forum. Not that it will make an iota of difference but such efforts should be applauded.
Well done TOC ! timing is perfect for the tabling of the subject in Parliament. That’s what I tried to suggest to the Opposition! But nonetheless you took it on! I guess TOC doing it gives it more credibility or any such polls by the Opp will be seen as ‘more’ biased.
So let’s see what they say.
So what are you going to do about it? …Well, can we do anything about that at all?
Our mini-stars will just tell Parliament that the by-election is not required by law….blah blah blah….
Let us list some of the possible excuses our mini-stars will give to avoid a by-election:
1) “We believe the residents of Bt Batok do not want a by-election”
2) “We think it is a waste of money to hold by-election…[nevermind that we have wasted even more money for far less significant stuff in the past]”
3) “We think PAP will win the by-election, so no point in holding one”
4) “The other MPs in the GRC can take turns to man Bt Batok….[does that mean that GRCs have too many MPs??]”
5) “Mr Ong’s spirit continues to help the residents”
can that be considered a strong mandate? hee hee
I can say with some degree of authority that ~100% of working Singaporeans will like a significant pay raise (after inflation) and no taxes. Whilst that’s a much stronger mandate than a 60-65% one, it won’t happen
A valiant effort TOC. Will it move the government into changing it’s mind? Will the motion filed by Prof Thio and Dr Loo achieve anything? The government has already indicated that they do NOT intend to hold a by election and so there won’t be any. As long as we allow the PAP to wield absolute power, they will do as they please no matter how much we object.
6) lim on August 27th, 2008 5.55 pm
Hi Lim, you are right and very smart lah. Your fantastic example is a no-brainer lah, it is like telling someone that 100% of working Singaporeans would not mind to have million of dollars given to him just like that. You do not even need to conduct a poll for it and even a 60-year old ah pek or aunty without much education can speak with 100% authority (not some authority) on this one.
nice effort, but I don’t think the gahmen gives a hoot. They have already indicated that there is no need for a by election as stated in the constitution. Makes no sense to change their mind =)
nonetheless, this is a good show of making our voices heard.. I look foward to more initiatives by TOC and if manpower is needed, I wouldn’t mind volunteering my svcs
5) meqwerty on August 27th, 2008 5.36 pm
So what do you think. hee hee
Finally the people has a voice… whether they want to hear it or not.
great work!
Why does the Jurong GRC mps not get a referendum from Jurong residents?
More official right?
But I think this ….possible?
Maybe can poll the grassroot leaders there. Would it be unbiased poll if just poll all the grassroot leaders of Jurong? Should be many there right?
I think they will super duper unbiased one ler.
who believes this not har? i will say i believe they will be unbiased as they serve the people wor. they great great wor. sacrifice for people wor.
Hi Andrew,
Great job.
Thank you
Good initiative! Thank you, very much appreciated. The man in the street is slowly regaining his voice.
Thank you TOC.
It is about time that the people give the Government a run for their presumptious behaviour. Let see what is the respond to the people’s challenge.
For anyone (especially those in Parliament) who insists that the law does not require a by-election, I recommend reading the Constitution. The relevant section is contained in Article 49:
Filling of vacancies
49. —(1) Whenever the seat of a Member, not being a non-constituency Member, has become vacant for any reason other than a dissolution of Parliament, the vacancy shall be filled by election in the manner provided by or under any law relating to Parliamentary elections for the time being in force.
(2) The Legislature may by law provide for —
(a) the vacating of a seat of a non-constituency Member in circumstances other than those specified in Article 46;
(b) the filling of vacancies of the seats of non-constituency Members where such vacancies are caused otherwise than by a dissolution of Parliament.
Article 49 states simply and clearly if the seat of the MP is vacant for ANY reason other than a dissolution of Parliament, the vacancy SHALL BE FILLED BY ELECTION [emphasis added]. The by-election is not optional. The elections laws may determine how the by-election takes place but everything else is predicated on the premise that the by-election does take place. Any other interpretation is contrary to the constitutional requirement.
paiseh folks, I like to find out what is a Referendum with respect to a Democracy and how is it ever used in a first world like singapore? i am clueless. i suppose singaporeans are very intelligent, world-wise and 1st world democratic citizens who are proud of their system.
[...] expected, there will be no by-election in Jurong GRC, even though it appears that residents themselves would rather have such an election. Nevertheless Mr Lee Hsien Loong’s reported speech is illuminating for the deliberate [...]
Hi maynardjohn,
but this is Singapore where the PAP can ignore the law if it likes to. Who will be the judge? Who would rule against them? that’s just the pity in this case
Hi Steve,
It actually gets worse. The remedy of load sharing as suggested by the government violates another Article in the Constitution.
Provision against double membership
47. A person shall not be at the same time a Member of Parliament for more than one constituency.
Is our Parliament not sworn to uphold the Constitution?
I feel that those debates are just wayangs. is there even a need for the debate when there is the consitituion
maybe SevenEleven you meant: “is there even a need for the debate when there is the PAP”
It is apparent that the PAP sees itself above the law. The present situation would make it difficult for the PAP to hold a by-election, especially in a GRC. The dilemma is simple: allow only this vacated seat to be replaced would potentially allow an opposition MP in a PAP GRC. To hold an election for the whole GRC could even threaten the prime minister’s position. With price hikes, more ERPs, high inflation, etc. an opposition victory would not at all be that unlikely.
a by election is a no brainer in a fully fuctioning democractic country..
Yet the issue is going to be debated in parliment…….the wanyanging begin…
furthermore, I think the government wants to use this law to justify their actions:
Election of Members on a group basis in group representation constituencies
27A. — (1) In every general election of Members and the election of Members to supply vacancies caused by death, resignation or otherwise, the Members for any group representation constituency shall be elected in accordance with this Act subject to the modifications in this section.
PARLIAMENTARY ELECTIONS ACT
but what would happen if all the members of the GRC would vacate their seat? Is this section of the law consitutional? But that really is a moot point, as there is no one to verify!
It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything.JosefStalinJosef Stalin
Finally someone cares about what the people say! Thanks! Great effort!
“PM Lee said Singapore must never blindly follow others.”
PM Lee,
which part of it is blinded ?
Look like without international pressure, you just won’t give in and continue to protect yourself and your regime own selfish interest.
Can you even practice what you preach ?
So many gahmen have been blindly following you and your father without questioning ? Stop misleading the people, “PM Lee said PAP must never blindly follow others.” Who are you to determine that
PAP, ruling party = Singapore, the country ?
[...] Mr Siew also brought up a poll conducted by theonlinecitizen to parliament. [...]
[...] Mr Siew also brought up a poll conducted by theonlinecitizen to parliament. [...]
Are we living in a police state?
I thought we’re supposed to be in a modern society, a “Kinder, Gentler” society?
Growing up in the 80s, I’d always thought that PAP knew best, I couldn’t disagree then PAP really did make the effort to take care of its people. Everyone had a house, a job and a future to look forward to. Nobody was left behind. We accepted it then, because it really looked like PAP knew best.
Now, the future is clear, PAP has lost its vision, its mandate and its ability to lead. It is no longer a “People’s Action Party”. They are a giant multi-national corporation who only cares about the bottom line.
The sacrifices our forefathers, the unsung heroes, the true nation-builders have been made in vain. War heroes are being demoted, old historical buildings are being destroyed, remenants of student power are totally wiped out.
Textbooks are rewritten, articles that are against the establishment are banned. Petitions from the people are disregared by the ruling as nonsensical.
Does this look like the time when Qin Shi Huang burned all historical books so that China’s history starts from him?
What happened along the way PAP? Have modernization, money, power blinded you?
As the curtain closes on the episode (by election) and the saga (ping pong), a big thank you to both people and Government.
The people has awaken. Let the able bodied henceforth stand by with their courage and committment.
The Government have shown its great resolve ( going at great lengths and no wonder it needs so many people) to do what they believe - the overall orchestration is awesome.
An opposition to surface must be really good, never mind whether the playing field is level or not.
Despite all the complains, Singapore’s future looks good.
“Does this look like the time when Qin Shi Huang burned all historical books so that China’s history starts from him?”
OMG ! Do like we really have modern Qin Shi Huang revive ! Our emperor has already built a great wall for over 4 decades, not a wall against the invading barbarians but invisible wall against members of opposition voice and the disagree. The ISD and kangaroo laws are the NEW GREAT WALL OF SINGAPORE. We have been so blind not to see that. We are the economic slaves that work till death the same as those workers that work til they die building the Great Wall of China.
Emperor Qin hided his treasure and wealth all over China, our emperor put wealth all over the world by investing companies all over the world.
Now is someone going to build a great mausoleum and hide his tomb from the commoner ? Will he build a Terracotta Warriors ?
That quite scary come to think of it.
even the New Paper did their survey on the residents of Bt Batok…70% wanted a by election..i believe.
I am utterly disappointed with PM Lee by not holding the by-election. then again, does PM Lee really care what the citizens think..??? despite the poll by TOC… very very disappointed. and also, Halimah, please dun say your grassroots not in favour of by-election. ask those not involve in grassroots work to have an unbiased view. too bad, PAP dare not conduct the survey in Jurong GRC to determine the people’s preference. total SHAME…..
you really want to know what PAP thinks of us people and such rubbish straw polls?
See this picture
http://feedmetothefish.blogspot.com/2008/08/freedom-vs-fear.html
How do we know how the survey was done that indicated people wanted a by-election? What was the methodology of taking the survey? There may be different results depending on who is asked.
Previously I wanted a by-election because I just wanted my voice heard. Thanks to this article and its accompanying comments, I’m all the more convinced that it is necessary to hold one - by law, no less.
Come on, our world-class PAP leaders, what’s there to fear? Follow our legendary founder, put on your gauntlets and meet your opponents in the cul-de-sac. Show us the uniquely Singapore spirit!
Hi Nick,
Good to see you here. Very simple, the answer to your solution. Hold a referendum to determine if pple want a by-election.
Pardon me, but your attempts to cast doubts on the validity of the results are really lame. I would expect a stronger rebuttal to the voices of democracy here than that.
Good day!
ITS STRANGE AND UNEXPLICABLE THAT , TO ME , A NON OPPOSITION PARTY SEEMS MORE EFFECTIVE IN VOICING UP THAN U-KNO-WHO.
what is the REALITY ?
Given the Landslide Victory by the incumbent in the last round,
I do not see what is the harm to hold a by-e. not e-bye, by-e. not the big e. just the by-e.
they got landslide majority, so, by going through what is logical when a mp is dead, i do not see the harm of doing it as they should think that they will win. landslide correct or not?
Thank you TOC for a great effort on the survey and posting it for all netizens.
The response from the PAP was expected and most of us know it is fear of losing. Wouldn’t the PAP capitalize on a by-election if the sentiments are good ?
Afterall they love to self promote themselves, remember the billboards and posters faking solidarity with citizens on national day ?…… the recent Olympics silver that they bought for themselves ?…. but it became a fiasco with Lee BW kicking balls to end things with an anti-climax. LOL
In dismissing the proposal for a by election put forward by NMPs in parliament,
PM Lee said ‘we should not blindly follow others’…..Yes, he is right !
And it makes even more sense for the citizens of Singapore not to blindly follow the PAP !
“How do we know how the survey was done that indicated people wanted a by-election? What was the methodology of taking the survey? There may be different results depending on who is asked.”
Why don’t you question your master when they deliver their statistic ?
“How do we know how the survey was done that indicated people wanted a by-election? What was the methodology of taking the survey? There may be different results depending on who is asked.”
Isn’t it strange I never see Nicholas question the statistic given by our mainstream and our leader ?
You need to earn the respect of the people here and not voice foolish question that you yourself did not even raise to your very own master.
“38) Nicholas Lazarus on August 28th, 2008 10.07 am How do we know how the survey was done that indicated people wanted a by-election? What was the methodology of taking the survey? There may be different results depending on who is asked”
You are spot on. Likewise, the same line of curiosity / questions is in my head whenever some statistics are being presented in the MSM. Hey, it takes one to know one.
If something happens at Potong Pasir or Hougang..wonder what they will say? Anyway, well done TOC.
Now we can confirm that this country has kangaroo court run by kangaroo leadership after all.
http://blueheeler.wordpress.com/2008/08/27/leehsienloong-says-each-of-our-votes-is-more-for-the-political-party-and-less-so-for-the-individual-mp-candidate/
“So when an MP is elected, it means voters are also giving the mandate to the party represented by the MP to form the government”.
does it means voters are also giving the mandate to the party represented to run the country and do as they please ?
It is a shame that this shameful PM Lee link that MP = PAP. In other words, by voting PAP, PAP = Singapore.
i bet my last penny with anyone,who think a by election going to take place….I like this toc cos you guys make me feel wiser as i get older…hahaha….( maybe i ‘m really wiser than most here)…make my day….
49) SINGAPOREAN 52 on August 28th, 2008 11.17 am
I think you are not going to win anything.
Roads take time to be paved before anyone can start to use it. First, you do not even see a single car. Next, for any matter, you may see a long jam. This is how drastic things could turn out to be.
Like they say, do not count your chicken before they are hatched. But somehow, you could roughly know how many chicken you may be getting by the number of eggs you have. In short, RWYS (Reap what you sow).
Question here: Do we elect MEMBERS of Parliament or do we elect a political party?
Second thing: WHO decides who’s in the government?
@ 38) Nicholas Lazarus
You are right to question the methodology used in the survey by TOC.
And the methodology has a bearing on the integrity of the survey i.e. the credibility .
The MSM has a ranking of 154th because of poor credibility and it is reasonable to assume its methodology used to provide data to the public is highly questionable.
Now let’s look at elections in Singapore.
Does the general public think the methodology used by your PAP to win elections is a good example of integrity and fairplay ? ….
…………………………………………remember the Olympics ?
What about the methodology used to appoint personnel in key positions ?…..surely you know what is conflict of interest ?
I am sure netizens can help me point out other questionable methodology.
So you can see Nicholas, your PAP’s methodology in bonding with the people is getting no where…….remember the sentiments of the people on national day?
………………………………………..how many displayed the flag ? LOL
From what PM said, the govt can suka suka call a by-election whenever it feels like it.
Is this constitionally legal?
The excuse that the PAP use is the refrain that Singapore is different, therefore the political expedency calls for a different set of rules. Different from what? It seems that Singapore is no different from a communist country like China.
“Singapore is no different from a communist country like China.”
Every kangaroo will say that they are different from the rest but the same kangaroo can selectively use other countries’ case to backup their argument.
Kangaroo parliament indeed ! Hop, hop, hop to Mandai Zoo !
The way I see it, MM Lee screw up the consitutions when there was no opposition to nayny the motion and we are only seeing the consequences now.
Now that the son has taken over but he does not have the balls to overturn his father’s decision.
How Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong and his cabinet will react to the Call for a By-election were well anticipated. There shall be no By-election, the sentiments on the ground show that PAP could (and likely) suffer a defeat it cannot bear with.
It is unbelieveable to me that the Oppositon Parties and Politicians are sooooo silent with regard the By-election Subject. Are they still around?
The Nominated Members of Parliament are more proactive and active in discussing the By-election in the Current Parliament meeting. TOC and other bloggers are calling for a By-election, doing polls voluntarily. Much efforts have been put in by citizens and yet the silence from the Opposition Camps are terribly deafening. Oppositions do not even understand the simple strategy to strike when the iron is hot ? Are YOU(Opposition) defeated before the games start?
HOW CAN THE PEOPLE OF SINGAPORE HAVE CONFIDENCE IN YOU (OPPOSITION PARTIES/POLITICIANS)??
patriot.
Methodology aside, even if you consider the results in Table B above, only 44.8% wanted a by-election. 55.2% were not agreeable to a by-election- comprising of 29.7 who said no and 25.5 who “did not know”.
Even the majority polled does not want a by-election.
In any event, there is really no need in this particular circumstances because the residents’ interests are looked after by the remaining MPs.
The reason why there is a clamour for a by-election is the opposition and their supporters want to try their luck at a GRC. Eventhough its a longshot for the opposition, I suppose they have nothing to lose by contesting.
I, for one, would welcome a by-election. Then we shall see the opposition squabbling amongst themselves to stand in the GRC probably ending up in a 3 way or 4 way fight.
Nicholas Lazarus,
you contradict yourself and making yourself win in any situation.
“Even the majority polled does not want a by-election.” What percentage of majority ? Call a spade a spade.If what you say stand, then why the need for any election at all since majority will vote for PAP anyway ? For wayang ?
“In any event, there is really no need in this particular circumstances because the residents’ interests are looked after by the remaining MPs.”
If you quote the above then why bother with the first statement since you already baised ? Looking after someone doesn’t mean you wouldn’t be voted out. What make you think the residents’ interests are looked after ? Based on what same assumption and methodology ?
It looks like you still have a lot to learn from your master.
@ 56) Nicholas,
You mentioned the remaining MPs can look after the residents’ interests……so that means the GRC has one too many MP from the beginning and this comes back to the PAP’s methodology in winning elections.
You are right that the opposition needs luck and it is a long shot which comes back again to the PAP’s methodology of winning elections.
You assumed the opposition will squabble but on what basis ?
Do you agree the methodology used by your PAP to win elections is a good example of integrity and fairplay ? Very straight forward yes or no. thanks.
HIi Nicholas on August 28th, 2008 1.45 pm,
Shouldnt a dont know vote be a dont know vote and not a no vote? How can you be sure if a person voted dont know actually wanted to vote yes but is too afraid?
As for welcoming a by-elections, why not you “feedback” your opinion to ur masters?
Nicholas - you should not try to wriggle out of this. Only 29.7% said no. Don’t play with words. 25.5% don’t know. In your warped way of interpreting statistics, I can equally say 70.3% were not agreeable to no by-election - comprising of 44.8% who said yes and 25.5% who did not know.
The neutral and fair way is to consider only those with opinion - that is, leave out those who did not know or have no opinion. 44.8% said yes to by-election, and 29.7% said no. This in itself already shows you what the people feel. Proportionately, 63.7% said yes among those who expressed a yes or no.
@56) Nicholas
>>I, for one, would welcome a by-election.
Oops… i juz fell off my office chair
Mr T, you are right on!. could this apply to the majority of 66% mandate given to the GE?
I look forward to more street polls similar to these =)
it seems that nicholas thinks netizens are the same idiots who read the st. see how he twists words to come to an erroneous conclusion.
since nicholas hails from the pap, and applying the pm’s logic (mp represents party), we should not be surprised if pap interprets data in the same way as he does. that shld explain a lot of headlines:
1. raise gst to help poor
2. 40% of commuters will save money with new system
…..
Sylvia Lim also posted her speech on issue on the Internet:
http://www.wp.sg/wordpress/2008/08/speech-on-motion-on-by-elections/
I think she is right: the GRC system needs to be abolished. A better way to guarantee minority represention would be proportional respresentation:
http://blueheeler.wordpress.com/2008/08/27/leehsienloong-says-each-of-our-votes-is-more-for-the-political-party-and-less-so-for-the-individual-mp-candidate/
But I agree with blueheel, that will be very unlikely. This would reduce the influence of the PAP and would thus be unacceptable! Who would want to give up power and all the benefits associated with it? Without serious pressure, the PAP will never yield. Moreover, it will constantly try to strengthen its hold on power.
56) Nicholas Lazarus on August 28th, 2008 1.45 pm
Hey I do need to learn from you my dear friend.
About your interpretation of “not agreeable” = “did not know”. Surely you do not expect anyone here to have missed it right. Or probably you do not care anyway ?
“I, for one, would welcome a by-election. Then we shall see the opposition squabbling amongst themselves to stand in the GRC probably ending up in a 3 way or 4 way fight.”
Your wish is purely academic and cold comfort to a lot of the supporters for the by-election as it has been decided that it would be a no-go.
the whole by-election process is written to give PAP a super trip grip on the parliament house
1. if opp MP (single seat) dies or resign, PM will call for by-election and try to take his seat.
2. if PAP MP (single seat) dies or resign, PM can decide not to call for by election.
3. If one or more GRC MP dies or resign, PM can decide not to call for by election.
4. If any PAP MP resign or change party, he will lose his seat.
Hence, the goverment will only gain and never lose. There is actually 3 casino in singapore - PAP, Sands and Genting Sentosa
51) laserpointer on August 28th, 2008 12.41 pm Question here: Do we elect MEMBERS of Parliament or do we elect a political party?
Second thing: WHO decides who’s in the government?
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interesting questions phrased concisely.
impressed!
Singaporeans Want By-Election in Jurong GRC…
Wednesday, 27 August 2008,
Update: Parliament rejects motion to fine-tune electoral system. “PM Lee said Singapore must never blindly follow others.” – Channel NewsAsia. NMP Siew Kum Hong, who helped with the poll, mentioned the poll results i…
Two points:
One: Those who answered “Don’t know” does not necessarily translate into a “no” vote.
Thus, to assume that they mean “no” when they answered “Don’t know”, and to lump them together with the “no” group, is misleading.
Two: If one says there is no need for a by-election because the remainging MPs can do the duty of the missing MP, then may I ask:
First: The missing MP is not in Parliament. How are his constituents’ interest represented?
Second: If one says that 4 MPs can do the work of 5 MPs, then why have 5 MPs? May as well just have 4. One MP costs tax payers more than half a million dollars in one term (5 years). (About $14,000 per month X 12 months x 5 years).
May I ask if Nicholas Lazarus is saying that having 5 MPs in Jurong GRC means that at least one of them is actually redundant because the work can be done by 4 MPs?
This is what happens when one tried to fit a square peg into a round hole.
This has been happening lately with several Govt policies. It tells of a Govt which would preserve the status quo at all cost in order to stay in power - even if it makes them - and the law - look ridiculous.
Steve (66):
While it is true that the proportional representation (PR) system can allow for minority representation, it has quite a number of drawbacks that need to be considered. Personally, I think the first-past-the-post (or technically, single-member-district plurality) system is more suited for Singapore.
and if ever the opposition won a GRC and one member vacates the seat, can the PM also call for a by-election or can it be assume that the other remaining opposition MP cover duties?
I prefer to go back to the days of single member consituencies, before the idea of GRC came into the scene. It is also useful for the elected representative to continue in the same constituency and build up ties with the voters (until they are replaced).
We can have additional members nominated from the grassroot organisations representing the minority interests. Alternatively, there can be a separte election for these members by the minorities.
I believe that such a system has been implemented successfully in several countries.
I wonder if TOC polls only all grassroot leaders, how much skewed will the result be? erm…..of course, you know what i would think? you got it! I would say they super unbiased one ler. hee hee , giam chai char loti, stedi bom bibi.
p l p. ha ha.
How can there be no by-elections? If no elections, all the people of Jurong should move to other places since staying there means no chance of voting as a democratic citizen….waait a minute…are we even a democratic nation in the first place to talk of democratic elections? hmm…
Kiasi will lose is it? Be really afraid……… the more you siam to do the right thing, the better. Build up the to 2011.
there should be a by election for jurong grc at least. i know the govt will not do away with grc, but there should be at least a by election. i have never vote before in any election be it general or president. it very sad because i as a citizen have so many laws and taxes to fufil yet i have not even cast a vote and the government cannot claim that whatever they do are singaporean wishes and good for singapore. i think many people like me also have not cast a vote before, thats very very sad. all seat should be contested and the ruling party should make this happen. ok if not talk about politics let talk about the basic things. my blk 216 at bukit batok design is unique and that why lift upgrading cannot be done. now dr ong is dead, the other mps will take care of bukit batok i hope that they can see my comment and try to work on this to let the lifts to stop at every floor at my block with their best effort so that my grandfather will not need to take the stairs. hope that what the PM say that other mps will continue the job with their best effort and get this done as soon as possible. hope the PM can see also.
This incident is a clear example to me that the PAP cannot be left to police itself, because it will not take any actions that are against their interests - even if the people wants it.
The GRC is able to function without the deceased MP because the GRC’s numbers is bloated to begin with. The number is bloated because it creates an electoral advantage for the PVP.
1st of all
I do no agree on the setup of GRC, why?
it is as good as admitting some MP are not as good as others
In a GRC of 4 members, if only 1 or 2 MPs is more capable the others, why is there a need for the other MPs? hence in each GRC, other MPs will be relying more on the leader of the GRC which is usually a Minister.
Beside that GRC isnt a fair platform for the opposition, I am not a pro PAP or pro opposition, I am rather a neutral. It will be a fairly stage for each individual MP to contest fairly in each election, to show how good they are.
It’s sad to that opposition parties are too small and hence usually unable to field out sufficient and credible candidates. I really hope to see more voices which can check on the govt no matter whether the govt is doing well or not.
As for the rejection of the motion, it was as expected, If the MP who have deceased is from a opposition GRC, do u think the govt will still not call for the by-election?
I am supportive of a by-election because as I have mentioned eariler, the deceased MP can have been the strongest or most contributing person in the GRC while others are just tagging along. A fair election will be able to let the citizens show who do they want to represent them in the parliament.
When can we see a fairer ground for all so that we can make singapore a better country?
dear peoples we would want again want to hear your comments please give us your comments as your comments ism important to us if u have no comments it fine thank you take care !!!
sorry is very important spell wrongly
Does this mean the government is totally, unabashedly, self-denially and absolutely out of the touch with those who are governed?
http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/news/story/0,4136,174746,00.html?
Parliament: By-election poser
What People of Bukit Batok say
THE majority of parliamentarians voted one way, and heartlanders the other.
By Arul John
29 August 2008
THE majority of parliamentarians voted one way, and heartlanders the other.
Do Bukit Batok residents feel the need for a by-election to fill the seat vacated by the late Jurong GRC MP Dr Ong Chit Chung?
Yes, said the majority of 150 who had a clear opinion.
The New Paper asked 150 people in Bukit Batok what they thought. And their views, depending on which side of the parliamentary debate you were on, would either be a vindication or a surprise.
While less than 10 per cent of Parliament felt a by-election was necessary, more than two-thirds of those we polled who were clear in their opinion felt they wanted a by-election (70 out of 100).
The