Really a great and rare effort in Singapore. You did a very good job on the poll. It is only sad that non-profit blog websites have to do the job normal newspapers do i other countries. I think the result should motivate the government to act!

Good attempt. That at least is a little more credible than the usual opinions we see on this forum. Not that it will make an iota of difference but such efforts should be applauded.

Well done TOC ! timing is perfect for the tabling of the subject in Parliament. That’s what I tried to suggest to the Opposition! But nonetheless you took it on! I guess TOC doing it gives it more credibility or any such polls by the Opp will be seen as ‘more’ biased.
So let’s see what they say.

So what are you going to do about it? …Well, can we do anything about that at all?

Our mini-stars will just tell Parliament that the by-election is not required by law….blah blah blah….

Let us list some of the possible excuses our mini-stars will give to avoid a by-election:

1) “We believe the residents of Bt Batok do not want a by-election”
2) “We think it is a waste of money to hold by-election…[nevermind that we have wasted even more money for far less significant stuff in the past]”
3) “We think PAP will win the by-election, so no point in holding one”
4) “The other MPs in the GRC can take turns to man Bt Batok….[does that mean that GRCs have too many MPs??]”
5) “Mr Ong’s spirit continues to help the residents”

can that be considered a strong mandate? hee hee

I can say with some degree of authority that ~100% of working Singaporeans will like a significant pay raise (after inflation) and no taxes. Whilst that’s a much stronger mandate than a 60-65% one, it won’t happen :-)

A valiant effort TOC. Will it move the government into changing it’s mind? Will the motion filed by Prof Thio and Dr Loo achieve anything? The government has already indicated that they do NOT intend to hold a by election and so there won’t be any. As long as we allow the PAP to wield absolute power, they will do as they please no matter how much we object.

6) lim on August 27th, 2008 5.55 pm

Hi Lim, you are right and very smart lah. Your fantastic example is a no-brainer lah, it is like telling someone that 100% of working Singaporeans would not mind to have million of dollars given to him just like that. You do not even need to conduct a poll for it and even a 60-year old ah pek or aunty without much education can speak with 100% authority (not some authority) on this one.

nice effort, but I don’t think the gahmen gives a hoot. They have already indicated that there is no need for a by election as stated in the constitution. Makes no sense to change their mind =)

nonetheless, this is a good show of making our voices heard.. I look foward to more initiatives by TOC and if manpower is needed, I wouldn’t mind volunteering my svcs

5) meqwerty on August 27th, 2008 5.36 pm

So what do you think. hee hee

Finally the people has a voice… whether they want to hear it or not.
great work!

Why does the Jurong GRC mps not get a referendum from Jurong residents?
More official right?
But I think this ….possible?

Maybe can poll the grassroot leaders there. Would it be unbiased poll if just poll all the grassroot leaders of Jurong? Should be many there right?
I think they will super duper unbiased one ler.
who believes this not har? i will say i believe they will be unbiased as they serve the people wor. they great great wor. sacrifice for people wor.

Hi Andrew,
Great job.
Thank you

Good initiative! Thank you, very much appreciated. The man in the street is slowly regaining his voice.

Thank you TOC.
It is about time that the people give the Government a run for their presumptious behaviour. Let see what is the respond to the people’s challenge.

For anyone (especially those in Parliament) who insists that the law does not require a by-election, I recommend reading the Constitution. The relevant section is contained in Article 49:

Filling of vacancies
49. —(1) Whenever the seat of a Member, not being a non-constituency Member, has become vacant for any reason other than a dissolution of Parliament, the vacancy shall be filled by election in the manner provided by or under any law relating to Parliamentary elections for the time being in force.

(2) The Legislature may by law provide for —
(a) the vacating of a seat of a non-constituency Member in circumstances other than those specified in Article 46;
(b) the filling of vacancies of the seats of non-constituency Members where such vacancies are caused otherwise than by a dissolution of Parliament.

Article 49 states simply and clearly if the seat of the MP is vacant for ANY reason other than a dissolution of Parliament, the vacancy SHALL BE FILLED BY ELECTION [emphasis added]. The by-election is not optional. The elections laws may determine how the by-election takes place but everything else is predicated on the premise that the by-election does take place. Any other interpretation is contrary to the constitutional requirement.

paiseh folks, I like to find out what is a Referendum with respect to a Democracy and how is it ever used in a first world like singapore? i am clueless. i suppose singaporeans are very intelligent, world-wise and 1st world democratic citizens who are proud of their system.

[...] expected, there will be no by-election in Jurong GRC, even though it appears that residents themselves would rather have such an election. Nevertheless Mr Lee Hsien Loong’s reported speech is illuminating for the deliberate [...]

Hi maynardjohn,

but this is Singapore where the PAP can ignore the law if it likes to. Who will be the judge? Who would rule against them? that’s just the pity in this case

Hi Steve,

It actually gets worse. The remedy of load sharing as suggested by the government violates another Article in the Constitution.

Provision against double membership
47. A person shall not be at the same time a Member of Parliament for more than one constituency.

Is our Parliament not sworn to uphold the Constitution?

I feel that those debates are just wayangs. is there even a need for the debate when there is the consitituion

maybe SevenEleven you meant: “is there even a need for the debate when there is the PAP”

It is apparent that the PAP sees itself above the law. The present situation would make it difficult for the PAP to hold a by-election, especially in a GRC. The dilemma is simple: allow only this vacated seat to be replaced would potentially allow an opposition MP in a PAP GRC. To hold an election for the whole GRC could even threaten the prime minister’s position. With price hikes, more ERPs, high inflation, etc. an opposition victory would not at all be that unlikely.

a by election is a no brainer in a fully fuctioning democractic country..

Yet the issue is going to be debated in parliment…….the wanyanging begin…

furthermore, I think the government wants to use this law to justify their actions:

Election of Members on a group basis in group representation constituencies
27A. — (1) In every general election of Members and the election of Members to supply vacancies caused by death, resignation or otherwise, the Members for any group representation constituency shall be elected in accordance with this Act subject to the modifications in this section.

PARLIAMENTARY ELECTIONS ACT

but what would happen if all the members of the GRC would vacate their seat? Is this section of the law consitutional? But that really is a moot point, as there is no one to verify!

It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything.JosefStalinJosef Stalin

Finally someone cares about what the people say! Thanks! Great effort!

“PM Lee said Singapore must never blindly follow others.”

PM Lee,
which part of it is blinded ?
Look like without international pressure, you just won’t give in and continue to protect yourself and your regime own selfish interest.
Can you even practice what you preach ?
So many gahmen have been blindly following you and your father without questioning ? Stop misleading the people, “PM Lee said PAP must never blindly follow others.” Who are you to determine that
PAP, ruling party = Singapore, the country ?

[...] Mr Siew also brought up a poll conducted by theonlinecitizen to parliament. [...]

[...] Mr Siew also brought up a poll conducted by theonlinecitizen to parliament. [...]

Are we living in a police state?

I thought we’re supposed to be in a modern society, a “Kinder, Gentler” society?

Growing up in the 80s, I’d always thought that PAP knew best, I couldn’t disagree then PAP really did make the effort to take care of its people. Everyone had a house, a job and a future to look forward to. Nobody was left behind. We accepted it then, because it really looked like PAP knew best.

Now, the future is clear, PAP has lost its vision, its mandate and its ability to lead. It is no longer a “People’s Action Party”. They are a giant multi-national corporation who only cares about the bottom line.

The sacrifices our forefathers, the unsung heroes, the true nation-builders have been made in vain. War heroes are being demoted, old historical buildings are being destroyed, remenants of student power are totally wiped out.

Textbooks are rewritten, articles that are against the establishment are banned. Petitions from the people are disregared by the ruling as nonsensical.

Does this look like the time when Qin Shi Huang burned all historical books so that China’s history starts from him?

What happened along the way PAP? Have modernization, money, power blinded you?

As the curtain closes on the episode (by election) and the saga (ping pong), a big thank you to both people and Government.
The people has awaken. Let the able bodied henceforth stand by with their courage and committment.
The Government have shown its great resolve ( going at great lengths and no wonder it needs so many people) to do what they believe – the overall orchestration is awesome.
An opposition to surface must be really good, never mind whether the playing field is level or not.

Despite all the complains, Singapore’s future looks good.

“Does this look like the time when Qin Shi Huang burned all historical books so that China’s history starts from him?”

OMG ! Do like we really have modern Qin Shi Huang revive ! Our emperor has already built a great wall for over 4 decades, not a wall against the invading barbarians but invisible wall against members of opposition voice and the disagree. The ISD and kangaroo laws are the NEW GREAT WALL OF SINGAPORE. We have been so blind not to see that. We are the economic slaves that work till death the same as those workers that work til they die building the Great Wall of China.
Emperor Qin hided his treasure and wealth all over China, our emperor put wealth all over the world by investing companies all over the world.

Now is someone going to build a great mausoleum and hide his tomb from the commoner ? Will he build a Terracotta Warriors ?

That quite scary come to think of it.

even the New Paper did their survey on the residents of Bt Batok…70% wanted a by election..i believe.

I am utterly disappointed with PM Lee by not holding the by-election. then again, does PM Lee really care what the citizens think..??? despite the poll by TOC… very very disappointed. and also, Halimah, please dun say your grassroots not in favour of by-election. ask those not involve in grassroots work to have an unbiased view. too bad, PAP dare not conduct the survey in Jurong GRC to determine the people’s preference. total SHAME…..

you really want to know what PAP thinks of us people and such rubbish straw polls?

See this picture

http://feedmetothefish.blogspot.com/2008/08/freedom-vs-fear.html

How do we know how the survey was done that indicated people wanted a by-election? What was the methodology of taking the survey? There may be different results depending on who is asked.

Previously I wanted a by-election because I just wanted my voice heard. Thanks to this article and its accompanying comments, I’m all the more convinced that it is necessary to hold one – by law, no less.

Come on, our world-class PAP leaders, what’s there to fear? Follow our legendary founder, put on your gauntlets and meet your opponents in the cul-de-sac. Show us the uniquely Singapore spirit!

Hi Nick,

Good to see you here. Very simple, the answer to your solution. Hold a referendum to determine if pple want a by-election.

Pardon me, but your attempts to cast doubts on the validity of the results are really lame. I would expect a stronger rebuttal to the voices of democracy here than that.

Good day!

ITS STRANGE AND UNEXPLICABLE THAT , TO ME , A NON OPPOSITION PARTY SEEMS MORE EFFECTIVE IN VOICING UP THAN U-KNO-WHO.

what is the REALITY ?

Given the Landslide Victory by the incumbent in the last round,
I do not see what is the harm to hold a by-e. not e-bye, by-e. not the big e. just the by-e.

they got landslide majority, so, by going through what is logical when a mp is dead, i do not see the harm of doing it as they should think that they will win. landslide correct or not?

Thank you TOC for a great effort on the survey and posting it for all netizens.

The response from the PAP was expected and most of us know it is fear of losing. Wouldn’t the PAP capitalize on a by-election if the sentiments are good ?
Afterall they love to self promote themselves, remember the billboards and posters faking solidarity with citizens on national day ?…… the recent Olympics silver that they bought for themselves ?…. but it became a fiasco with Lee BW kicking balls to end things with an anti-climax. LOL

In dismissing the proposal for a by election put forward by NMPs in parliament,
PM Lee said ‘we should not blindly follow others’…..Yes, he is right !
And it makes even more sense for the citizens of Singapore not to blindly follow the PAP !

“How do we know how the survey was done that indicated people wanted a by-election? What was the methodology of taking the survey? There may be different results depending on who is asked.”

Why don’t you question your master when they deliver their statistic ?

“How do we know how the survey was done that indicated people wanted a by-election? What was the methodology of taking the survey? There may be different results depending on who is asked.”

Isn’t it strange I never see Nicholas question the statistic given by our mainstream and our leader ?

You need to earn the respect of the people here and not voice foolish question that you yourself did not even raise to your very own master.

“38) Nicholas Lazarus on August 28th, 2008 10.07 am How do we know how the survey was done that indicated people wanted a by-election? What was the methodology of taking the survey? There may be different results depending on who is asked”

You are spot on. Likewise, the same line of curiosity / questions is in my head whenever some statistics are being presented in the MSM. Hey, it takes one to know one.

If something happens at Potong Pasir or Hougang..wonder what they will say? Anyway, well done TOC.

Now we can confirm that this country has kangaroo court run by kangaroo leadership after all.

http://blueheeler.wordpress.com/2008/08/27/leehsienloong-says-each-of-our-votes-is-more-for-the-political-party-and-less-so-for-the-individual-mp-candidate/
“So when an MP is elected, it means voters are also giving the mandate to the party represented by the MP to form the government”.

does it means voters are also giving the mandate to the party represented to run the country and do as they please ?

It is a shame that this shameful PM Lee link that MP = PAP. In other words, by voting PAP, PAP = Singapore.

i bet my last penny with anyone,who think a by election going to take place….I like this toc cos you guys make me feel wiser as i get older…hahaha….( maybe i ‘m really wiser than most here)…make my day….

49) SINGAPOREAN 52 on August 28th, 2008 11.17 am

I think you are not going to win anything.

Roads take time to be paved before anyone can start to use it. First, you do not even see a single car. Next, for any matter, you may see a long jam. This is how drastic things could turn out to be.

Like they say, do not count your chicken before they are hatched. But somehow, you could roughly know how many chicken you may be getting by the number of eggs you have. In short, RWYS (Reap what you sow).

Question here: Do we elect MEMBERS of Parliament or do we elect a political party?

Second thing: WHO decides who’s in the government?

@ 38) Nicholas Lazarus

You are right to question the methodology used in the survey by TOC.
And the methodology has a bearing on the integrity of the survey i.e. the credibility .

The MSM has a ranking of 154th because of poor credibility and it is reasonable to assume its methodology used to provide data to the public is highly questionable.
Now let’s look at elections in Singapore.
Does the general public think the methodology used by your PAP to win elections is a good example of integrity and fairplay ? ….
…………………………………………remember the Olympics ?
What about the methodology used to appoint personnel in key positions ?…..surely you know what is conflict of interest ?
I am sure netizens can help me point out other questionable methodology.

So you can see Nicholas, your PAP’s methodology in bonding with the people is getting no where…….remember the sentiments of the people on national day?
………………………………………..how many displayed the flag ? LOL

From what PM said, the govt can suka suka call a by-election whenever it feels like it.

Is this constitionally legal?

The excuse that the PAP use is the refrain that Singapore is different, therefore the political expedency calls for a different set of rules. Different from what? It seems that Singapore is no different from a communist country like China.

“Singapore is no different from a communist country like China.”
Every kangaroo will say that they are different from the rest but the same kangaroo can selectively use other countries’ case to backup their argument.
Kangaroo parliament indeed ! Hop, hop, hop to Mandai Zoo !

The way I see it, MM Lee screw up the consitutions when there was no opposition to nayny the motion and we are only seeing the consequences now.

Now that the son has taken over but he does not have the balls to overturn his father’s decision.

How Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong and his cabinet will react to the Call for a By-election were well anticipated. There shall be no By-election, the sentiments on the ground show that PAP could (and likely) suffer a defeat it cannot bear with.

It is unbelieveable to me that the Oppositon Parties and Politicians are sooooo silent with regard the By-election Subject. Are they still around?

The Nominated Members of Parliament are more proactive and active in discussing the By-election in the Current Parliament meeting. TOC and other bloggers are calling for a By-election, doing polls voluntarily. Much efforts have been put in by citizens and yet the silence from the Opposition Camps are terribly deafening. Oppositions do not even understand the simple strategy to strike when the iron is hot ? Are YOU(Opposition) defeated before the games start?

HOW CAN THE PEOPLE OF SINGAPORE HAVE CONFIDENCE IN YOU (OPPOSITION PARTIES/POLITICIANS)??

patriot.

Methodology aside, even if you consider the results in Table B above, only 44.8% wanted a by-election. 55.2% were not agreeable to a by-election- comprising of 29.7 who said no and 25.5 who “did not know”.

Even the majority polled does not want a by-election.

In any event, there is really no need in this particular circumstances because the residents’ interests are looked after by the remaining MPs.

The reason why there is a clamour for a by-election is the opposition and their supporters want to try their luck at a GRC. Eventhough its a longshot for the opposition, I suppose they have nothing to lose by contesting.

I, for one, would welcome a by-election. Then we shall see the opposition squabbling amongst themselves to stand in the GRC probably ending up in a 3 way or 4 way fight.

Nicholas Lazarus,
you contradict yourself and making yourself win in any situation.

“Even the majority polled does not want a by-election.” What percentage of majority ? Call a spade a spade.If what you say stand, then why the need for any election at all since majority will vote for PAP anyway ? For wayang ?

“In any event, there is really no need in this particular circumstances because the residents’ interests are looked after by the remaining MPs.”

If you quote the above then why bother with the first statement since you already baised ? Looking after someone doesn’t mean you wouldn’t be voted out. What make you think the residents’ interests are looked after ? Based on what same assumption and methodology ?

It looks like you still have a lot to learn from your master.

@ 56) Nicholas,

You mentioned the remaining MPs can look after the residents’ interests……so that means the GRC has one too many MP from the beginning and this comes back to the PAP’s methodology in winning elections.

You are right that the opposition needs luck and it is a long shot which comes back again to the PAP’s methodology of winning elections.

You assumed the opposition will squabble but on what basis ?
Do you agree the methodology used by your PAP to win elections is a good example of integrity and fairplay ? Very straight forward yes or no. thanks.

HIi Nicholas on August 28th, 2008 1.45 pm,

Shouldnt a dont know vote be a dont know vote and not a no vote? How can you be sure if a person voted dont know actually wanted to vote yes but is too afraid?

As for welcoming a by-elections, why not you “feedback” your opinion to ur masters?

Nicholas – you should not try to wriggle out of this. Only 29.7% said no. Don’t play with words. 25.5% don’t know. In your warped way of interpreting statistics, I can equally say 70.3% were not agreeable to no by-election – comprising of 44.8% who said yes and 25.5% who did not know.

The neutral and fair way is to consider only those with opinion – that is, leave out those who did not know or have no opinion. 44.8% said yes to by-election, and 29.7% said no. This in itself already shows you what the people feel. Proportionately, 63.7% said yes among those who expressed a yes or no.

@56) Nicholas

>>I, for one, would welcome a by-election.

Oops… i juz fell off my office chair

Mr T, you are right on!. could this apply to the majority of 66% mandate given to the GE?

I look forward to more street polls similar to these =)

it seems that nicholas thinks netizens are the same idiots who read the st. see how he twists words to come to an erroneous conclusion.

since nicholas hails from the pap, and applying the pm’s logic (mp represents party), we should not be surprised if pap interprets data in the same way as he does. that shld explain a lot of headlines:

1. raise gst to help poor
2. 40% of commuters will save money with new system
…..

Sylvia Lim also posted her speech on issue on the Internet:
http://www.wp.sg/wordpress/2008/08/speech-on-motion-on-by-elections/

I think she is right: the GRC system needs to be abolished. A better way to guarantee minority represention would be proportional respresentation:
http://blueheeler.wordpress.com/2008/08/27/leehsienloong-says-each-of-our-votes-is-more-for-the-political-party-and-less-so-for-the-individual-mp-candidate/

But I agree with blueheel, that will be very unlikely. This would reduce the influence of the PAP and would thus be unacceptable! Who would want to give up power and all the benefits associated with it? Without serious pressure, the PAP will never yield. Moreover, it will constantly try to strengthen its hold on power.

56) Nicholas Lazarus on August 28th, 2008 1.45 pm

Hey I do need to learn from you my dear friend.

About your interpretation of “not agreeable” = “did not know”. Surely you do not expect anyone here to have missed it right. Or probably you do not care anyway ?

“I, for one, would welcome a by-election. Then we shall see the opposition squabbling amongst themselves to stand in the GRC probably ending up in a 3 way or 4 way fight.”

Your wish is purely academic and cold comfort to a lot of the supporters for the by-election as it has been decided that it would be a no-go.

the whole by-election process is written to give PAP a super trip grip on the parliament house

1. if opp MP (single seat) dies or resign, PM will call for by-election and try to take his seat.
2. if PAP MP (single seat) dies or resign, PM can decide not to call for by election.
3. If one or more GRC MP dies or resign, PM can decide not to call for by election.
4. If any PAP MP resign or change party, he will lose his seat.

Hence, the goverment will only gain and never lose. There is actually 3 casino in singapore – PAP, Sands and Genting Sentosa

51) laserpointer on August 28th, 2008 12.41 pm Question here: Do we elect MEMBERS of Parliament or do we elect a political party?

Second thing: WHO decides who’s in the government?
——————————————————————–

interesting questions phrased concisely.
impressed!

Singaporeans Want By-Election in Jurong GRC…

Wednesday, 27 August 2008,

Update: Parliament rejects motion to fine-tune electoral system. “PM Lee said Singapore must never blindly follow others.” – Channel NewsAsia. NMP Siew Kum Hong, who helped with the poll, mentioned the poll results i…

Two points:

One: Those who answered “Don’t know” does not necessarily translate into a “no” vote.

Thus, to assume that they mean “no” when they answered “Don’t know”, and to lump them together with the “no” group, is misleading.

Two: If one says there is no need for a by-election because the remainging MPs can do the duty of the missing MP, then may I ask:

First: The missing MP is not in Parliament. How are his constituents’ interest represented?

Second: If one says that 4 MPs can do the work of 5 MPs, then why have 5 MPs? May as well just have 4. One MP costs tax payers more than half a million dollars in one term (5 years). (About $14,000 per month X 12 months x 5 years).

May I ask if Nicholas Lazarus is saying that having 5 MPs in Jurong GRC means that at least one of them is actually redundant because the work can be done by 4 MPs?

This is what happens when one tried to fit a square peg into a round hole.

This has been happening lately with several Govt policies. It tells of a Govt which would preserve the status quo at all cost in order to stay in power – even if it makes them – and the law – look ridiculous.

Steve (66):

While it is true that the proportional representation (PR) system can allow for minority representation, it has quite a number of drawbacks that need to be considered. Personally, I think the first-past-the-post (or technically, single-member-district plurality) system is more suited for Singapore.

and if ever the opposition won a GRC and one member vacates the seat, can the PM also call for a by-election or can it be assume that the other remaining opposition MP cover duties?

I prefer to go back to the days of single member consituencies, before the idea of GRC came into the scene. It is also useful for the elected representative to continue in the same constituency and build up ties with the voters (until they are replaced).

We can have additional members nominated from the grassroot organisations representing the minority interests. Alternatively, there can be a separte election for these members by the minorities.

I believe that such a system has been implemented successfully in several countries.

I wonder if TOC polls only all grassroot leaders, how much skewed will the result be? erm…..of course, you know what i would think? you got it! I would say they super unbiased one ler. hee hee , giam chai char loti, stedi bom bibi.

p l p. ha ha.

How can there be no by-elections? If no elections, all the people of Jurong should move to other places since staying there means no chance of voting as a democratic citizen….waait a minute…are we even a democratic nation in the first place to talk of democratic elections? hmm…

Kiasi will lose is it? Be really afraid……… the more you siam to do the right thing, the better. Build up the to 2011.

there should be a by election for jurong grc at least. i know the govt will not do away with grc, but there should be at least a by election. i have never vote before in any election be it general or president. it very sad because i as a citizen have so many laws and taxes to fufil yet i have not even cast a vote and the government cannot claim that whatever they do are singaporean wishes and good for singapore. i think many people like me also have not cast a vote before, thats very very sad. all seat should be contested and the ruling party should make this happen. ok if not talk about politics let talk about the basic things. my blk 216 at bukit batok design is unique and that why lift upgrading cannot be done. now dr ong is dead, the other mps will take care of bukit batok i hope that they can see my comment and try to work on this to let the lifts to stop at every floor at my block with their best effort so that my grandfather will not need to take the stairs. hope that what the PM say that other mps will continue the job with their best effort and get this done as soon as possible. hope the PM can see also.

This incident is a clear example to me that the PAP cannot be left to police itself, because it will not take any actions that are against their interests – even if the people wants it.

The GRC is able to function without the deceased MP because the GRC’s numbers is bloated to begin with. The number is bloated because it creates an electoral advantage for the PVP.

1st of all
I do no agree on the setup of GRC, why?
it is as good as admitting some MP are not as good as others
In a GRC of 4 members, if only 1 or 2 MPs is more capable the others, why is there a need for the other MPs? hence in each GRC, other MPs will be relying more on the leader of the GRC which is usually a Minister.

Beside that GRC isnt a fair platform for the opposition, I am not a pro PAP or pro opposition, I am rather a neutral. It will be a fairly stage for each individual MP to contest fairly in each election, to show how good they are.
It’s sad to that opposition parties are too small and hence usually unable to field out sufficient and credible candidates. I really hope to see more voices which can check on the govt no matter whether the govt is doing well or not.

As for the rejection of the motion, it was as expected, If the MP who have deceased is from a opposition GRC, do u think the govt will still not call for the by-election?

I am supportive of a by-election because as I have mentioned eariler, the deceased MP can have been the strongest or most contributing person in the GRC while others are just tagging along. A fair election will be able to let the citizens show who do they want to represent them in the parliament.

When can we see a fairer ground for all so that we can make singapore a better country?

dear peoples we would want again want to hear your comments please give us your comments as your comments ism important to us if u have no comments it fine thank you take care !!!

sorry is very important spell wrongly

Does this mean the government is totally, unabashedly, self-denially and absolutely out of the touch with those who are governed?

http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/news/story/0,4136,174746,00.html?

Parliament: By-election poser
What People of Bukit Batok say
THE majority of parliamentarians voted one way, and heartlanders the other.
By Arul John
29 August 2008

THE majority of parliamentarians voted one way, and heartlanders the other.

Do Bukit Batok residents feel the need for a by-election to fill the seat vacated by the late Jurong GRC MP Dr Ong Chit Chung?

Yes, said the majority of 150 who had a clear opinion.

The New Paper asked 150 people in Bukit Batok what they thought. And their views, depending on which side of the parliamentary debate you were on, would either be a vindication or a surprise.

While less than 10 per cent of Parliament felt a by-election was necessary, more than two-thirds of those we polled who were clear in their opinion felt they wanted a by-election (70 out of 100).

The rest – 50 – were not concerned either way.

They were either undecided or did not care.

Retiree S K Koh, who is in his 60s, said: ‘If Malaysia could have a by-election, why can’t we? Besides, it would show the democratic process here.’

Lecturer David Koh, 48, was one of those who felt the need for someone to focus on the constituency’s needs. ‘In the coming years, the future will be uncertain.

‘We need a dedicated MP for Bukit Batok.’

Engineering student Alvin Tan, 30, said: ‘Currently, Parliament is short of one seat. And without Dr Ong, the other four MPs have to share the workload.

‘It’s better to have somebody take over properly, and it would be even better if it’s someone who has been working closely with Dr Ong and knows the area better.’

Among those who felt they could do without a by-election was student Muhammad Afiq, 18. ‘Having a by-election and all that campaigning will be a waste of time and resources.

‘It would be better if Parliament or the Cabinet chooses a replacement for DrOng.’

Housewife Madam Jay Norman, 61, said: ‘One of the other MPs in the GRC can be the MP for Bukit Batok as he or she knows the constituency well already.’

Entrepreneur David Foo, 58, summed up the views of those who felt it wasn’t a priority. ‘It does not matter whether we have a by-election or not. We lost a good MP when Dr Ong died and we miss him but life still goes on.

‘What is important is that Bukit Batok is still well-managed.’

Housewife Madam S K Tan, 48, said: ‘I did not know the late MP well, so I have no opinions about a by-election.’

Given that we pay the highest politico salaries in the world,
will we get to have electrifying oratory genius like Obama?

Maybe someone from overseas as great can come here and spice up the local scenes and have a good debate with them, ‘live’ on TV for all to see where the words will come out spontaneously without prior scripting.

LHL cannot allow a by-election in Jurong GRC coz if he does that and LBW resigns (it’s a matter of when, not if), then he’d have to call one for AMK RC as well.

If this is required in our constitution law?

It’s interesting how the TNP article ‘forgets’ to mention/cite TOC as the inspiration. Having done the poll much earlier and posting the results (with press release some more), I don’t see how the article can fail to mention this poll. Furthermore, a larger sample size was involved here with more information on methodology and breakdown of responses included.

But at least Arul John (TNP reporter) had the balls to include the sub-header “The majority of parliamentarians voted one way, and heartlanders the other”, although the article’s point (government being out of touch with the people) itself was visibly muted (due to a ’self-censoring’ editor probably).

And how do I know that TNP/Arul John was aware of TOC’s poll? The language used in the article – “… those with a CLEAR OPINION …” – and the approach in interpreting the results. Mainstream Media has NEVER used the demarcation of excluding those with ‘no opinion’. Their polls are ALWAYS a yes-no type and naturally, no opinion cases would fall under the ‘no’ category.

Truly sad this…

Anyway, if the legal points raised in the comments regarding the compulsory nature of the by-elections according to the Constitution, could TOC get Mr Siew to bring this matter up for discussion in parliament? No doubt, the necessary cogs would scramble to get some obscure justification but it would be fun to see it happen nonetheless.

What happen if another MP from Jurong GRC reports to 18th level under, u mean no re-election again? Can the other MPs handle with the extra workloads?

Sorry ..I mean.by-election

@Jackson Tan

what are these drawbacks for proportional representation? Just saying there are is not enough!

When one feature is taken away from a component it ’s no longer has the same performance it has ( When Dr. Ong Chit Chung passed away). Government should held by election to update a new mandate to be fair to Jurong resident. LHL is expecting us to swallow this sort of half baked reasoning?

On 1 Septermber, we will be organising a protest in Speaker’s Corner. All you people who complained so much behind all those weird names better turn up to support.

Have more guts to do a by-election. See if you have the support of yr people. Too much of walk over is it.

To “Right On”

Base on your comments- there is a possibilty that 3 PAP ministers may be ko if 2 by elections are to be held.
Hence the expected outcome in Parliment and the LBW apology.
The importance of moving on to the PAP is quite clear.

We need a dedicated MP for Bukit Batok.’

Engineering student Alvin Tan, 30, said: ‘Currently, Parliament is short of one seat. And without Dr Ong, the other four MPs have to share the workload.

‘It’s better to have somebody take over properly, and it would be even better if it’s someone who has been working closely with Dr Ong and knows the area better.’

Am i not clear enough? We seriously do need a by-election. Dr Ong has served us well through the years since 1988 and we want another MP who is able to maintain his deeds. Why should we not hold a by-election? Having a short-change of manpower can easily tire out our counterparts as they have their own community responsibility as well. Have a blessed weekend ahead. <>

Say, if a minority member of a GRC dies, resigns or terminated, then it would mean that there is no minority representation at all which then would mean that the purpose of the GRC of having a mandatory minority representation, in the first place, would have been breached.

Therefore, in this circumstance , the GRC should either be disbanded totally to single seats constituencies AND/OR the constituency of the deceased minority race MP should have a MANDATORY by-election to fill the vacant seat by a minority. It would then be up for the residents/citizens rights to choose a person who shall represent them in parliament.

To say that it will be a waste of resources to have a by-election is an unacceptable excuse. Let’s be uniquely Singapore.

PAP knows that the chances of losing in the by-election is very high with so much vented frustrations on the ground. Therefore, NO by-election for sure.

What’s more revealing and an absolute fallacy is that the reality on the ground is totally not reflected in parliament by the PAP MPs. This is a good reflection of the level of credibilty and integrity that the PAP MPs have.

To Singaporeans, PAP MPs simply did not justify taxpayers’ contribution.

lazarus, you ‘r the cutest, no wonder ,the ppls. dote you most… TAKE CARE<<

The PM gave a very poor explanation of his decision – Defensive and protective of his own party’s agenda and ambitions.

[...] knew that whatever we said is useless. The survey done by The Online Citizen already showed that a majority of the residents in Jurong GRC wants an election. The four remaining [...]

“lazarus, you ‘r the cutest”
All clowns are cute, aren’t they ?

We need a tsunami that will expose all that has been buried deep for so long. We need the people to take back the power and hold the people we give the right to govern, responsible for they action or inaction. When only a select few hold on to the nation’s purse and refuse to be held accountable and be transparent than something is not right. Do the people know what’s happening, we do not even know how much they are making or how much wealth they have accumulated personally. We have had a few relevation which were quickly wiped out the surface. Instead we have a bill that protects them from any investigation by private firms. Everything is shrouded in a cloud of secrecy in the guise of national security. That will change when we have a credible opposition. Everything has to come out in the open when they have no majority to pass any bill without proper accountability. Like the declassification of the British records, which exposed many truth that were buried deep, we need a major awakening to hold the government accountable. For that we need a opposition and people are starting to realise that. And that why FEAR has set in. The old man keeps crying wolf and the son is afraid to face the truth and the demands of the people.

No man should be given a free hand when it comes to the concerns of the people, not even the monarchy. The time to stand up to scrutiny is nearing and with that FEAR has set in. Men to are a afraid will soon start doing deparate things and eventually stupid things. We are seeing that now. That’s just my view, on power in general.

As many have correctly pointed out despite the desparate attempt to justify their action, its just FEAR. The old man is crying wolf all the time and people are getting more agitated by their lack of accountability and transparency. Their arrogance and lack of moral authority has made them completly detached from reality the people are facing.

did the PAY and PAP scared of losing jurong GRC..??

if not ,,why don BATTLE with WP or other party??

is it,they did not give money to the jurong GRC citizen??

hai…i so disappoint not the pap goVERNMENT,,is the stupid singaporeans..when can they awake…

VOTES in election could depend on future government!!

at least need 30% is the opposition member in the parliment…

about 20 something people in the parliment is not “pay and pay”member….

SINGAPOREANS PLEASE AWAKE…SAVE YRSELF!!!! HAI…..

@75,,,,
you must be as old as me…..(giam chai char loti)

@101 Daniel…..Hmmmm…
Daniel don b notti…. I 1 you to say sorry to UNCLE LAZARUS..

[...] August, TOC conducted a street survey in Jurong GRC, following the death of one of the People’s Action Party MP, Dr Ong Chit Chung.  The results [...]

Whether a by-election or no by-election in jurong grc, lky pap still owe us an election and that election has to be paid dearly at GE 2011.That everyone can not forget.

Come 2011 GE, the Great people of jurong grc need to drown lky pap for that matter.

The Great people of jurong grc have the power to unseed the incumbent lky pap team in exchange for the ’short changed’ they have lived on. Just look around you and also the several set polls that Great people of jurong grc answered — majority truely need the Opposition, a full time sets of Opposition MPs to serve daily in that wards of electoral divisions of jurong grc, not just part time MPs set by lky pap team, always missing-in-action in the Wards, gone AWOL many several day in day out.

Enough is enough for the part time MPs, for we are now looking at credible full time MPs to be seen and heard all day long thru the whole parliamentary term.

The Great people of jurong grc have the ‘golden political bullet’ to unseed the part time lky pap MPs.

YES WE CAN, TO UNSEED THE PART TIME MPs,
tokselehon.