Dharmendra Yadav / Guest Writer
Get a good education, work hard, save money, get married, own homes, make babies, retire and enjoy the fruits of your labour – this was once the Singapore Dream.
In the last 5 years, I know of several friends who have left Singapore because that Singapore Dream, which was once achievable, is now more distant.
A majority of these friends who have left are married.
To some, the decision was very clear and no-brainer. There was a better quality of life waiting for them beyond the Singapore shores even though it came at the expense of higher taxes.
Some thought long and hard before making this decision. At least one of them even purchased a property in Singapore and was thinking of having children here. But the more they contemplated, the more they got sucked into the rat race and realised that this was a life they did not wish to lead.
Life, to them, is not about stashing away more and more money in their bank accounts but about leading a contented life. And, since they left, they have not regretted making that decision.
Another group of these friends are single and homosexual. They feel strongly, for various reasons, that they cannot live a life of dignity in Singapore. Legislation such as Section 377A of the Penal Code also impedes them from being themselves.
They are now happily settled elsewhere, either still single or attached by civil partnerships to other males. Most enjoy a standard of living higher than they would have in Singapore. One friend has even adopted a new identity in the interest of his family, who remain in Singapore.
Of course, there are another group of friends who have left simply because they can make more money elsewhere. To them, a personal priority is to save as much as they can early in life so that, later in life, they can retire blissfully.
Some years ago, at a Singapore International Foundation event for foreign undergraduates, I asked the then Minister for Law & Foreign Affairs, Professor S Jayakumar, about this trend.
He basically made statements to the following effect. There is nothing or little the Government can do to change the minds of those leaving Singapore, and that Singapore should continue to focus its efforts on attracting foreign talent.
This was at a time when the Singapore Government was dishing out scholarships to foreign students and citizenships to foreign sportsmen. We would only realise much later that some of these sportsmen would flee the country as soon as they had accumulated their bounty!
Thankfully, S Jayakumar‘s view has not been a view shared by the current Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong, who has set up the Overseas Singaporean Unit (OSU) in the Prime Minister’s Office and made it the direct agenda of his office to reconnect Singapore with Singaporeans who have left.
How well the OSU will do remains unclear, especially in light of more developments, which are encouraging or enabling more Singaporeans to leave Singapore.
Since stepping down as Prime Minister, Senior Minister Goh Chok Tong has gone on a whirlwind tour of the Middle East to promote Singapore and Singaporean talent.
This has created new opportunities for some, like an uncle of mine, who after reaching their mid-40s, faced great difficulty finding jobs here. These experienced persons are now being talent-spotted for work in the Middle East in countries such as Saudi Arabia, Qatar and United Arab Emirates.
Another Minister in the Prime Minister’s Office, Lim Boon Heng, is pushing for more people to work beyond the retirement age and lobbied very hard for legislation to make employers offer re-employment to those above 62 years old.
My folks and I do not buy this idea that one has to work for life or beyond the retirement age. There is so much more to do in life after retirement.
Like some of those who have left, they are thinking of liquidating some of their assets to purchase a retirement home in Thailand or India where the cost of living is comparatively cheaper.
I also know of many older friends who have purchased homes in Penang and Malacca in Malaysia or moved to Australia or New Zealand, because that is where they wish to eventually retire.
Today, the Singapore Dream has changed: get a good education, work hard, save money, get married, own homes, make babies, retire and then keep on working.
As a result, many more find themselves abandoning the Singapore Dream and fleeing this city of possibilities.
*The writer is training to be a trial lawyer. He blogs at www.thinkhappiness.blogspot.com
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As someone who is seriously considering leaving this place (and is currently applying to a lot of overseas jobs to do so), I sympathise with your article. I fall into the married with children category.
The main reason I am leaving is because I find the regulations here oppressive. Our government makes rules without regard for how citizens feel about the rules. The court of appeal is the government, the very people who make the rules, and so generally, as an individual you cannot get your way. This versus other countries where one can appeal a regulation elsewhere. Heck, I can’t even vote in my own country!
Reservist is also a burden. Can our government please wake up to the fact that employers do not care that reservist is a requirement? Even if we go on reservist, we are still required to do our work. Things like the various IPPT related activities take up peoples’ time.
Really, in the end, its a simple equation. I do X amount of work here or in a foreign country. I get Y benefits here, I get Z benefits elsewhere. If Z>Y+cost of moving, I will leave. Guess what Singapore? Because of your oppressive rules, Y is so small here, that leaving is a no-brainer.
It was never a Singapore Dream, just the Great Singapore Illusion…
A house you can buy, yes. BUT, you pay probably 130% of the purchase price including the interest for 20 to 30 years AND which can be taken back by the government after 99 years in any case.
A national savings program for retirement (CPF) with a catch of ‘shifting’ retirement age.
Low taxes, yes. BUT every non-elite Singaporean is simply a digit in the system AND once you are no longer productive, you cease to carry any value whatsoever.
It is no wonder that the more evolved generation of today treats Singapore the way it has always treated its (original) citizens – use for personal/economic gain and throw it aside after it has served its purpose.
Karma comes full circle?
Dear Dhamendra,
Good take, well written and true to the feelings of those citizenry who felt oppressed but can’t do a thing about it.
Let’s see how well the current government can make Singapore really livable in the eyes of these concerned citizenry and not in the context of the elites and the like minded who doesn’t give a hoot about the less fortunate.
there is a difference between leaving this place for good & living outside this place for good.
singapore is too expensive & stressful for us. also poor quality of living (unless you have monies). but then we have to admit that this is still a good place to bring up & educate our kids and to earn our salaries (although ours are peanuts compared to our ministers’). so far, all my friends and cohorts are discussing where they would like to retire outside singapore. in reality, even if we retire elsewhere, most of us would still have to come back once in a while (i guess after hearing their thoughts) because majority of us cannot just give up on our citizenship as yet and we also cannot have dual citizenship (government don’t allow) & cannot over-stay the visa of another country.
interestingly i like to share some thoughts from one of my breakfast khakis:
in 1980 at 30 years old, you ask me to defend singapore, i say yes immediately
in 1990 at 40 years old, you ask me again, i ask my boss as i have to keep my job to feed my family and pay my bills (including my highly price CEOed car and HDB resale flat)
in 2000 at 50 years old, you ask me again, i say later maybe because i pay more bills (for my kids’ tertiary education and my highly priced condo)
in 2008 at 58 years old, you ask me again, i say defend for what ? for who ? i am selling my condo & moving to 3 room flat, my kids are studying and working overseas. i cannot be fighting for those rich people and their big expensive houses in singapore right ?
i’ve been living outside Singapore for 8 years now, and the only thing that links me back to singapore are: family, friends and food.
i tend to see that in my everyday life, it seems to benefit someone else rather than myself.
While there are so many things that make Singapore as a country great, its the nitty gritty that riles me more, and making me not wanting to stay.
1. CPF and the way they screw around with MY hard-earned money for their benefit.
2. reservist and how they seem to think i’m more of a soldier than a civilian. exit permits, recalls, ICTs, IPPT, somehow i think the SAF has become a selfish monster…why does reservist hamper MY life as a civilian? those well-paid scholar officers scheming of the next big thing to get their promotion, while not thinking about the common soldier/reservist. and these guys get cushy jobs when they leave the SAF. SAF also being the most overtly racist govt organisation in Singapore. i no longer have an idea who’ll i’ll be defending if war ever comes – those snotty officers, this current govt?
3. which brings me to this scholarship system and elitism. it starts with SAP schools – there could not be any more racially elitist education programme than SAP.
4. How laws are passed. The latest thing that pi*sed me off – the printing of Singapore Duty Paid on every single stick of cigarette. And they aim to fine people $500 if they are caught with duty unpaid cigarettes. In other countries, the govt dont penalise the citizens. they will try to do better to arrest the smugglers and the people selling contraband. But only in Singapore, citizens get penalised. Why? becuase the govt is losing millions of dollars daily due to contraband ciggies. its about the MONEY…. and they take the easy way out. Recall that this new law comes from the Home Ministry – the same folks that let Mas Selamat get out. I did defend Wong Kan Seng on this blog when people were calling for his resignation. I changed my mind. This guy is lazy and resting on his laurels. and u know what – I DONT EVEN SMOKE.
5. the GST raise. they made us swallow the story that its to help the poor. here’s another big insult to my intelligence.
6. COE, ERP and public transport. i seem to think that all this is just to make money – and not really to provide a world-class transport system. the people who plans COE doesnt seem to work together with the people who came up with ERP. and i wonder who got a raise for coming up with the most complex taxi fare system in the world.
7. GRCs and how it changes every election. rather than focus on winning the hearts and minds of the citizenry through serving the public, they come up with these tactics to make sure they win – “to overcome any freak results”… so what if there was a freak result? if an opposition goes in, he/she has to prove they can represent the people. if they are useless, they’ll be booted out in the next election.
i could go on and on and on…but i think i take the easy way out – and not return to singapore.
aygee hits right on the spot with his comment. Gov makes smoking overseas cigs a crime just cos they don’t get to collect $ from the tax. I didn’t know smoking cheaper cigs is harmful & bad to the society compared to smoking tax-paid cigs. Collecting insane amount of taxes from cigs & fining people who smoke cheap cigs? That sounds really fair.
Many locals slog their lives away working, till old age, either to make ends meet, or they’ve been brainwashed by the local media or gov subconsciously to keep working & working as long as they are able to breathe. Most likely than not, it is a vain attempt to keep up with ever-increasing cost of living in Singapore.
It’s like a death trap. You get a good education, you get a reasonable-paying job, & you can afford a car. You go ahead & buy one. What happens? Relentless increase in cost of driving. You finally decided that you can afford a baby. What happens next? Cost of general living skyrockets & you have to slog away at work to support your child, to such an extent that having to support a child is a really really hard chore! Have more children? Pfft. What do you do? Keep on slogging your life away to make ends meet! Does anyone want a life like that?
It’s not like I feel mighty comfortable living here. One word, “crowded”. This simple word does not seem that simple & innocent after all once you stepped outta your home. C’mon, i need my living space! I need to breathe!
This country is a self-serving place for the elites. No common man would want to call it his home here for what he has seen going on. I for one would leave at the first opportunity.
Reading from above comments, this title will be more appropiate.
From Singapore Dream to Singapore Nightmare: Fleeing The City of Possibilities
Migrate if you must or have to. There are ups and downs wherever you go. It is more of whether you can adjust to the country you go to.The grass looks greener on the other side definitely.
I lived in Sg for a good deal many years and somehow I don’t think that it is that bad nor do I think it is that fantastic over here – but I make the best out of things and enjoyed living here. I have a house, a piece of land with fruit trees, plant lot of roses, veg, etc… I got my own garage to hammer things about, I can afford as many cars as I want (btw some of the cars are from Sg), etc.
I can go fishing on weekend, see a show, eat out, etc and so on.
And I am earning about the same as when I was in Sg.
then I can only afford a 125cc GN suzuki.
Be happy – you have the right to live happy.
Migrate if you must or have to…..cheers.
“Singapore Dream?” what is that? Oh lordi lord, It’s beginning to have that numbing effect. There are those who wished to leave for the same reasons cited in the article but because of financial issues as well as academically not qualified to apply for PR status in another country where the rules are more lax and humane oriented and yes SPACE.
I think this trend will go on for as long as people felt they are not genuinely taken care for. So, for most feeling oppress now and can’t do a thing about it, I think their motto for the “NEW” Singapore Dream now should be:
Work hard, save all you can, retire somewhere where you can continue to pursuie your life long hobby when time is up.
There are some young friends who can’t wait to leave when they find an opportunity or the means to do so. It is usually the family and friends that are holding them back.
Migrating can be a costly affair if you have a family in tow. Be sure to have enough savings and research on whether your education and experience is relevant to get you a job. The market overseas isn’t too rosy. Do your research. Having realistic expectations of the differences in costs and lifestyle would help to avoid disappointment .
I agree with Gus. Feel free to migrate if you like but it’s good to be well prepared.
Home is where the heart is : it could be where you’re born as well as where you reside.
I’m 19 this year and I’m already planning to leave this country in the next 10 or 20 years.
This country I feel is too stressful to live in and very materialistic.
“The Singapore Dream is one that many wish to achieve” This is the funniest joke in history…
I am a Singaporean but have worked in many cities over the past 15 years – London, Seoul, Sydney, NY, HK, Tokyo etc. Right now, I am in singapore and I cannot be happier. In these cities, life is even more difficult – the commute is longer, costs is higher and (with the exception of Sydney), the homes are smaller etc.
G171, like others have said, no place is perfect. Yes, Singapore could arguably have a shorter commute, but to what expense? Yes, costs and taxes are higher in tokyo or NY or London, but the pay is also higher. there’s also social security. there’s also free medical in some instances.
some of the leaders need to change their “siege” mentality – that the world is not out to do us over, some folks are inclined to choose the opposition simply because you’re not doing a good job – its not about a different ideology or manifesto.
To change this, just start thinking about the people – not businesses, not about making money – but the people. Stop screwing around with our money. If the GIC and Temasek makes money from all the investments, why are we still getting savings rates for our CPF? if a fund manager can give me more than savings rate, why dont u allow me to do this myself?
just please, treat us more like citizens. treat us with more respect and intelligence – the GST, the recent WP vs PAP bicycle event – come on, we’re not stupid.
otherwise, Singapore no doubt is a great place to live. thats why expats love singapore. thats why i love it every time i go home to visit. i just dont want to stay – because of the way i’m being screwed around.
/// 2) Ganga on September 25th, 2008 10.28 am
It was never a Singapore Dream, just the Great Singapore Illusion…
A house you can buy, yes. BUT, you pay probably 130% of the purchase price including the interest for 20 to 30 years AND which can be taken back by the government after 99 years in any case. ///
Ganga – certain gripes are justifiable – but this isn’t one of them.
If you don’t like a leasehold property, then buy a freehold property and it will be yours for life.
If you buy a 99-year leasehold property, the same will apply whether it is Malaysia, Indonesia or Thailand, or any country with leasehold property. Worse, in some of the neighbouring countries, the lease is only 60 years or 30 years.
And what’s this nonsense about paying 130% of the purchase price? Tell me, which country gives you zero-interest mortgage loan for 20-30 years? Haven’t you heard of the price of money? You want to pay only 100% of the purchase price? Sure – pay in cash. FYI, you will have to pay 180% of the purchase price, assuming interest rate at 3% for 20 years.
18) aygee on September 25th, 2008 4.09 pm
Cool down my friend. Let people (who have the capability to move) make up their own mind. Don’t get so worked up la.
Oh, I might have forgotten “Old habbit Dies Hard”. So, for some people like our friend, material well being is greater over healthy humane living. They probably preferred to be managed and let someone decide for them and be told what to do..blah blah… hey hey, you have got to give credit to the system, it had thought them well.
I agree. If people want to leave, they’ll find a way.
There’s no perfect world and there’ll be places in other countries that will suit some people’s preference more than others.
But if people want to come back, I think Singapore and Singaporeans should be generous enough to welcome these people back.
It is not that the Moon in other countries is brighter or rounder, it’s not that the grass elsewhere is greener nor is living elsewhere makes one lives longer. But it should be more meaningful.
One simply should not live a mechanical life driven and manipulated by the Power that lords over us in everything. We once have our native cultures, our oriental insignias which just decades ago our predecessors fought hard to defend and protect from alien influences. It is sheer irony that the very values that our earlier generations had fought so hard to protect have almost got totally ruined in the hands of an English Educated ‘Oriental Gentleman’.
In SIN Galore, greed is good(positive), justified and promulgated through State Medias as the Driving Force for entrepreneurial ambitions. Selfishness is righteous as it will prevent crutch mentality and vices are not sinful if they contribute to economic growths. It is also justifiable and fine to tax the poor to help the poor.
It is not as if we are starving or having to beg for a living, no, we are not, BUT just that we are suffering from depravations of human feelings, sensibilities, reasonabilities, logics, conscience and other humane characters.
We humanity, just simply needs humanities and should not live like machines. Go, find a place not just to breathe, smell the flowers, be with nature and most importantly, live like a human.
patriot
“21) lim on September 25th, 2008 6.31 pm
But if people want to come back, I think Singapore and Singaporeans should be generous enough to welcome these people back.”
Ah Lim, good statement. We are on the same page on this. Keep it up.
Aygee,
I would not take issue with WP vs PAP cycle event. There are many ways for WP to raise awareness just that they love to copy PAP ‘s method of raising awareness which you cant compete with ruling party. Take SDP for example, a simple walk around NTU and NUS with pamplets and conversation brings out immediate response and publicity. Therefore what WP does it so outdated, and they are still living in stone edge when it comes to internet usage to raise awareness. WP is doom as long as the current management still runs it.
As for Singapore Dream, i not so sure that it ever existed in the first place. I never felt that Singapore will be a good place to retire. Given a choice i rather quit Singapore. Unless there is political change happening, where the self censor, self praise, self righteous, overpaid, underperform government loses mandate, that dream might reappear. This dream is dead. Just look at Transport chrages raised without collecting feedbacks from public, AVA slow response to China milk scare, FEER loses court case and ban from selling in Singapore, GIC saying they still have alot of cash(taxpayer monies) to buy toxic banks, there is no mention of temasek ‘s Merril Lynch bought over by BOA and what happened to our 14% stake? So much more issues our dear Godly PAP just brush aside. When economy is going down hill they just push the blame to US sub prime and declared that GDP is lower than estimates. They are overpaid and just like everyone else helpless in the face of a potentially big crisis looming nearer each day. So why PAY them MILLIONS?
FG
Chinese Teochew always said: “take a sit wherever is cool.” Migration is not a new idea and not a big issue.
Thousands years ago, Tibetan had moved from China to North & South America. How they cross over the pacific ocean?
I have been to OSU events in London and mingled with senior civil servants who organise these events. It is no doubt an attempt to woo Singaporeans back but it is nevertheless disgusting because:
1. It reminded overseas Singaporeans that ordinary Singaporeans in Singapore will never have the opportunity to mingle and exchange pointers with PAP MPs and senior civil servants in an open forum-cum-dinner organised by OSU. They only see you when they want to.
2. When questioned by overseas Singaporeans on domestic policy on manpower, NS, CPF and election, the PAP MPs and senior civil servants chose to keep quiet or respond with an irrelevant reply. The supposedly top dogs in public office and civil service have completely discounted that Singaporeans leave Singapore because they have grown sick and tired of discrepancies and lack of fairness and consistency in Singapore.
3. Unlike overseas Singaporeans, FTs generally do not have any political or social expectation that the government should fulfil because they are living outside the system (by being handsomely remunerated for working in Singapore) or they have a failsafe mechanism – they return to their home country. Overseas Singaporeans can sense that FT are more valued than overseas Singaporeans because of their lack of expectation.
The only overseas Singaporeans who would want to come back are those that are confident they can live outside the rules set up by PAP, unless they have something passionate to return to Singapore for.
I think what is important is that the average Singaporean (and more so for a below-average Singaporean like myself) is not envious of another going on a vacation or retirement. Let those who re going to take a break take a break, else you’ll never get yours when you need one.
1) Anonymous on September 25th, 2008 10.03 am
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Most singaporeans migrate to nice places like Australia etc.
These countries have many human and natural resources.
To qualify to be their citizen is not easy. They have strict criteria for new citizen applicants. They choose people with the skills they need more badly. Professional experience and credentials are scrutinised. I kudos to you for your attempt to live in a place of your choice. Hey, like they say, welcome foreigners to migrate to Singapore. Likewise, I assume the country of your choice would think the same and regard you as foreign talent. I do not regard you as a loser, in anyway whatsoever. Look at our new immigrants, they are welcomed and proud to have migrated to a place with such high ‘quality of life’. …. shall not comment further on this….
The Singapore Dream : yes, if only we know what kind of life we want.
I had a secondary school education, worked hard as I go along, got married and have children. From 4 room to mansionette, from 800cc car to a 2.3BMW. From a office admin to a regional sales manager travelling much. From cash payment to overdrafting credit cards.
My world collapsed in 2001 when the company left singapore as a regional base. My saving/compensation dried up in 10mths, paying mostly the credit card bills, Could not get the same level of pay again as trade was a sunset one. Bankrupted in 2003. Car was sold, mansionette was sold. I started working as a driver, did some small business with the old customers. Had survived till today.
I am enjoying my life now more than I was blindly chasing the dollars then and tried to keep up a affluent lifestyle which is not necessary. Now, I do not have to burden myself with car installment, flat installment, I stayed in 2 room rented apartment which I comfortably afford, I kept my CPF and plan to use it for my old age medical bills if ever I need. I drive part-time now, I do more business if I want to have more money for my family and children. Just to keep myself occupied in Singapore. I used a motorbike if I am on a single errand, my company let me drive around with a van. I take the bus if I want to watch fellow singaporeans go by. I do not care what other think of my status. I only care I m not not in debts to whatever institutions or unnecessary bills and purchases.
I told myself I do not want to stress myself living in Singapore by adjusting my lifestyle. I am happy because I do not live by credit now, I saved and purchase item by cash which make it more meaningful.
I will apply these principles too when my CPF withdrawal come about and can live in various cities which I had travelled to before with ease.
At least, I can choose to work and choose to retire on my own term, choose to migrate or not of my own liking and not by the dictate of the State and Stress.
Just what Singapore teach me about dream here. :-)
frankumcity,
well, that’s right. Singapore dream is about been contented while not been oppressed.
Ultimately the dream is about been able to live without overwhelming stress, without fear, without worrying about surviving each day, and most importantly, all this can be achieved by living under one’s mean. No need for big car, big house, big pocket, big debt, big installment ( and big stomach, haha).
I’m a fellow Singaporean but if I had money I will definitely go to another country for good, anywhere BUT Singapore. I find Singapore getting less logical everyday. Firstly, Mas Selamat’s mysterious escape and still on the run for about 7mths on this small red dot despite “Home team’s effort”. Secondly, govt encouraging more public transport usage but increasing bus fares at the same time, a way of getting more revenue for more future govt investing? Thirdly, the bicycle issue, if you know what I mean.
4.5million population is a lot for this small red dot, but govt is fantasizing 6.5mil which will become nightmarish for people taking public transport. One can imagine if the peak hrs extend to beyond 9 both in the morning and at night.
When it comes to birth rates issue, govt only plan 1billion+ but invests 10+billions in foreign investments.
And why must senior citizens register first in order to get the gst credits? Why can’t the govt empathise with old people who may have difficulties doing the registration? Why can’t the govt just automatically put the $$$ into their bank for them? Oh! I get it! The govt hope these old people may become forgetful about it and therefore they can save some $$$.
Singapore will, and forever, be a small red dot. And yes, I believe the grass is greener on the other side.
To T:
“If you don’t like a leasehold property, then buy a freehold property and it will be yours for life”
No, it will not be yours for life, you only keep it until the garmen wants it back.
So irregardless of 99 years, 999 years, or freehold, anytime Mr Lee, sorry, garmen wants it back you LL have to give it back. Yah, they say buy back, but on their terms. Not happy, sue them, and lets just guess what will the results be.
Why other countries like Taiwan, Thailand & Malaysiaetc. are not affected?
Their govt / authority don’t allow /approve such products to be sold?
If a product is approved, then it is “buyer aware”, seller has little resp. Is it fair?
Majority of Thailand children eat rice instead of milk.
Despite of 18 coups 19 constitution changes since 1932, 90% of peoples remains Buddhist lifestyle – that is simple and non-violence.
You don’t just read newspaper and be brrainwashed ! You read about anti-government news, that is actually an anti-corruption movement . You learned peoples protest & fight, those are cult and narcotic gang !
You thought they don’t have money to buy milk. They never copy everything from the west. That is why Thai Beer is published listed in Singapore. No casino is allowed in Phuket. Thais has very strong traditiona value. Their strength.
What is Singaporean’s traditional value? What is our strength? Compare Thailand and Singapore, which nation remain a nation after 40 years when China & India economic momentum slow down?
Context – Mr Tan. Mine was in response to Ganga’s senseless rants. He talks about leasehold which applies to any country, not just Singapore. He talks about paying 130%, which applies to any banks in any country. That’s all I am trying to disprove.
You point about compulsory acquisition is off tangent, but I will also deal with it. In the past, the compensation was very low. But some time back, (can’t remember which year) it was pegged to market rate. Of course if you have your property acquired, no amount of compensation will be enough, and the market rate may not be real market rate, or the market rate determined a few years earlier.
Again, I don’t think Singapore is the only country which has compulsory acquisition laws.
the only thing i will miss if i leave this country would be the food……nothing else……
We all got screwed while they are all laughing their way to their bank accounts, knowing that there is nothing you folks can do. You can compare sg with whatever country you want, reason out whatever things you like but do they give a shit! don’t even think they still have all our CPF monies in hand, thats why they start increasing the minimum retention sum to stop you folks from taking your monies. Things are getting from bad to worse, better pack and leave as soon as I can afford.
dodo:
“in 2008 at 58 years old, you ask me again, i say defend for what ? for who ? i am selling my condo & moving to 3 room flat, my kids are studying and working overseas. i cannot be fighting for those rich people and their big expensive houses in singapore right ?”
you think dodo is the only who will sell out or sell down?
people like dodo are a force in itself. these are the people who will decide the fate of this country and when enough number gravitate towards that direction, the crowd will start to follow or you will not be able to liquidate,
build more and higher lah. ha.
It’s interesting how some do not have the guts to back their opinions with their identities yet have the audacity to call those who do ‘ranting’. If you must debate, by all means go ahead and dispute my statements. But I would remind you not to be dismissive of others’ opinions.
Mr T, kindly read the article and comments in the appropriate context. The issue about housing refers to the government’s claims of public housing and its ‘pride’ that its population are all ‘house-owners’. If the housing market had always been de-regulated, perhaps the rental climate might be much different. For example, the industry itself might have had developers who focused on creating low-rent housing complexes.
Maybe people’s perception would not have been cultured to ‘must die-die buy house’ and instead a more sensible logic would have prevailed where those who had fluctuating incomes or wished to be cash-rich could choose to stay comfortably in rental property for the duration of their lives.
As for my estimation of 130% or so of interest, it is based on the assumption that when one pays off their housing loan, they endeavour to pay off the capital as well, which would mean the interest would be reducing over the term. Your ’20 years at 3% = 180%’ example (20 x 3 = 60, btw) will only happen if the interest was on the initial capital for the entire duration of the loan period.
In any case, the point here is that unlike the previous generation, the current cannot hope to make a profit on their houses. Worse, at the end of the day, if you need to take back your CPF and sell your home, no matter how high the price goes (save, freak market fluctuation), it is very unlikely that you will be able to get – original price of flat + interest paid + fees involved + CPF interest that would have been earned over the same period. This means that one’s CPF savings is lesser than what it would have been had one not wanted to be a flat-owner.
The rental alternative was not explored nor facilitated by our government and hence my claim that it is an illusion – the illusion of house ownership and the illusion of ‘rental bad, HDB good’.
The comment was not about how financial markets work.
Singapore is a country for the rich n powerful, just look at the F1 event , who benefit n enjoy this crap, of course the rich n powerful n those PAP cronies who organised this event to entertain the rich n powerful gain the most. The ordinary folks suffer due to closure of roads, ppl not driving so take public tranports thus buses n MRT were crowded, businesses around the Suntec area affected.
/// Mr T, kindly read the article and comments in the appropriate context. The issue about housing refers to the government’s claims of public housing and its ‘pride’ that its population are all ‘house-owners’. ///
Ganga – buying a 99-leasehold is, to all intents and purposes, owning that property. My point is, this will be the case in all countries with 99-year properties, whereas you single out Singapore as a special case as if it is a scam.
By your logic, any country that sells 99-year leasehold properties cannot include them as house owners. I disagree.
Just look at the tone of your assertion: /// A house you can buy, yes. BUT, you pay probably 130% of the purchase price including the interest for 20 to 30 years AND which can be taken back by the government after 99 years in any case. ///
What is your point about 130%? A scam? What is your point about taken back after 99 years? A scam? You mean you can buy a property in Malaysia for 100% of the purchase price? And they don’t take it back after 99 years?
It is my dream to leave singapoor within the next 10 years (once i have saved enough).
I can’t imagine me getting old and still have to slog through my retirement years.
Worst still, if I’m old and being retrenched, i may have to pick cardboards and drink cans for a living. I may have to sell tissues at the hawker centres or wash the toilets.
All this when i have contributed my youth to the economy, when my hard-earned cpf money is stashed away in some investment corporation which i shall not mention further.
This is an oppressive and pragmatic society where wrong-doers can go scot-free as long as they have the money and power. What happen to the voices of the people? The nonchalance of MAS and PTC irks me, perhaps our voices transmit at an inaudible frequency which they can’t even hear.
The local news and media is even at a relentless effort of brainwashing the people, procreation talk-show, babies-contest, beautiful-mum contest etc etc.
How to procreate when we don’t even have the basic security of our future?
This country is run like a corporation where the people are workers that are supposed to help the company create profits. Once we are no longer productive, we get fired. As simple as that. And mind you, don’t talk about a welfare state, welfare is a dirty word to some people.
Apathetic leaders who only know how to wayang and practice taiji when things cropped up, who won hundreds of thousands in defamation suits (Fools also know why they won). Anyway, my heart has turned cold.
Many reasons and beyond, that is why i would love to migrate to a more humane place, where there is genuine compassion and effort made by the leaders for the citizens. Where i can revive my cold cold heart and be a warm and living person.
Daniel, on comment #30, you said,
“No need for big car, big house, big pocket, big debt, big installment.”
You forgot another one, no need for Big Brother, always watching you.
Jackson, comment #31,
the govt wants to have 6.5m so as to compete with HK. at 3-4million, we’re too small for big MNCs to invest. We cant compete with HK, Shanghai, Taipei, even KL or Jakarta.
What we’re seeing now is a failure of central planning when its filled with underperforming individuals. While we target 6.5million, the folks at LTA are struggling to plan the transport system to match this population. while the folks at MRT and SBS are just looking at dollars and profits. its when the people who came up with ERP are not talking to the people who came up with COEs. the people who came up with the complex taxi fares are not the people who take taxis or drive taxis. Why? coz the focus of their planning and execution is just about everything else, except about the people.
The alternative? free market. let free market sets its prices. let the free market set the number of buses for routes, number of taxis on the roads. When there is competition, there will be innovation. Costs and prices are at the optimum. the govt’s role should be guiding, legislating, focused on the best result for the consumer.
But we’re uniquely Singapore ;-)
aygee,
that is a good one.
From the observation of the comments here, will add on,
No need for expensive government, no need for expensive prataman, no need for PAP moles in blogosphere.
29) frankumcity on September 26th, 2008 12.51 am The Singapore Dream : yes, if only we know what kind of life we want.
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1st of all, who determines what is definition of the term Singapore Dream ?
What is Singapore Dream?
as everyone is unique, their dreams should be different.
success should be subjective.
I hope singaporeans do not blind follow the blind….fall in to the longkang…..
Whatever is your Dream shall be your Singapore dream.
Lets not be so shallow to say that Singapore Dream is the 5 Cs and all should adopt the same definition.
I determine my own meaning of success.
But when live in such a uniquely singapore environment, the people here are cultivated with a certain unique mentality different from other countries.
While citizens of TW, MY, USA, Australia, Thailand, SKorea etc etc voice their opinions and concerns very much, Singaporeans are a bit different in this respect.
What causes this ?
Why do singaproans behave differently?
Are singaporeans worldly enough to be 1st world ?
i no no. I am clueless, nice to meet you.
regards
Kanga de roo of the pink chee hum that is stunted like marlboro
Do allow me to loso (repeat) one more time.
Get away from this sickening place if it is possible because it(SIN) will only get from bad to worse in time to come. We should not exist to slave for bullies!
Personally, as an old folk, I strongly encourage the younger generationsto leave.
Many talked about education of their youngs as one reason for not leaving, citing education in SIN as better than elsewhere. But, if one looks around, one will find that there are lots of Singaporeans studying overseas while foreign students in SIN are mostly hosted by our government. The point is, if our youngs are educated overseas and found to be better ‘qualified, recognised’ and proved to be competent and good at their jobs, then the education systems in other countries should be as good if not better than the Local System.
Humans have emotional needs other than material needs for a fulfilling and meaningful existence. When one indulges only in material craves that can never be satisfied, much of ones’ life is wasted.
If there is anything UNIQUELY SINGAPORE, it is that Sngaporeans are bred and inculcated with our NATIONAL CULTURE OF MATERIALISM, by our leadership after Independence.
SAD…………
patriot
Bottomline, no matter where you live, live within your means.
Regardless of where you’re living, at the end of the day, its the people that matters. Where your heart is, everything is perfect. When it has drifted off, time to move on.
Increased cost of living doesn’t happen only in Singapore.
Take 2 extreme cases for example,
SG – able to cope with increased cost of 2 digits percentage
Zimbabwe – 11.2 million % inflation
You’ll lead a happier life looking a brighter perspective of things instead of comparing yourself to others and wonder why you don’t have this that this.
Come up with your own dream instead of following the crowd. Singapore’s dream is a vibrant economy.
“Get a good education, work hard, save money, get married, own homes, make babies, retire and enjoy the fruits of your labour ” This is your own dream.
I think we have to put things in perspective. For one, I think Singapore’s cost of living has no way to go other than up. Look at all the developed cities of the world. New York, London, Hong Kong, Toyko. The cost of living is astronomical and the pace of life frenetic, to say the very least. Im sure many Singaporeans will agree that the only sustainable city model for Singapore in the future is something along the lines of New York. A frenetic pace of life and a high cost of living are issues we have to contend with in a global city. What more, Singapore has no hinterland to fall back on.
As in the case of great cities, people go and come. Some like the hustle and bustle, some prefer the tranquility and slow pace of the countryside. So much for the proverbial one man’s meat being another poison.
/// As in the case of great cities, people go and come. Some like the hustle and bustle, some prefer the tranquility and slow pace of the countryside. So much for the proverbial one man’s meat being another poison. ///
Alex, I think you have just nailed the nub of the matter. Unfortunately, for Singapore, the city and country is, for all practical purpose, one and the same. In big countries like the US or Australia, if you are tired of living in the city, you can always relocate to the suburb or countryside, and vice versa. In Singapore, you will hit the sea within half an hour. The only way to slow down in Singapore is to emigrate.
It was never a dream, it is a nightmare and one that is getting closer to us as we pass each passing day
1) Jobs will be limited
2) Population will increase, space per person will decrease
3) Transport systems will be packed as cars and buses and Mrt will be loaded
4) Cost of housing will go up due to demand
5) Areas that are further from town but are classified as HDB will go up and up
6) Crime rate will increase
Please feel free to continue
“51) Singapore nightmare on September 26th, 2008 4.20 pm.”
You have mentioned some of the more important variables of our life here.
They just need to concentrate & stay focused on the some of your mentioned variables and these alone will be enough to keep their hands really busy for most of the time.
They should not harbour too many grand ideas which they are not able to chew.