From Channel NewsAsia.
SINGAPORE : There is no change to the government’s position on political parties organising outdoor activities. Senior Minister of State for Law and Home Affairs Associate Professor Ho Peng Kee made this clear in Parliament on Tuesday.
He was responding to a query from Non-Constituency MP Sylvia Lim on the basis for which a permit was given for Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong to participate in a recent cycling activity at West Coast Park.
Associate Professor Ho explained that the event was a family carnival organised by the PAP Community Foundation (PCF), a charity with a social mission.
He said: “While it is affiliated to the PAP, the PCF has remained completely non-political since its set-up in 1986.
“The authorities considered the Family Day setting and community service focus of the event, as well as the status of PCF as a registered charity, and did not object to the event, as the policy of disallowing outdoor political events did not apply in this situation.”
Continuing the debate, Nominated MP Eunice Olsen pointed out that in August last year, Associate Professor Ho had said that law and order issues could arise when members of the public engage politicians at such events. She asked if the same risks applied at the event organised by the PCF.
Associate Professor Ho disagreed, saying this was different from a political party organising an event under its own banner.
He added that the PCF has a track record of not engaging in politics and is simply on the ground doing good for kindergartens and the less fortunate. – CNA/ms
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The full transcript of Minister Ho’s answer in Parliament can be found here on the MHA website. We reproduce it below:
Oral Answer to Parliamentary Questions on PCF event at West Coast Park on 31 Aug 08, 16 September 2008
Ms Sylvia Lim:
To ask the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Home Affairs what is the basis upon which a permit was given to enable the Prime Minister to participate in a cycling activity in West Coast Park on 31 August 2008.
Mr Siew Kum Hong:
To ask the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Home Affairs whether there has been any change in the rules and considerations governing the organisation of outdoor events by political parties and organisations affiliated with political parties.
Senior Minister of State for Law and Home Affairs, Associate Prof Ho Peng Kee :
The issue of political parties organising outdoor activities has been raised several times before in this House. The position remains unchanged. Police will not grant permits for outdoor political events.
Police’s position on outdoor political events is due to the assessed potential for public disorder which politically driven events can lead to, even when this is not intended by the organiser. We have seen ample evidence of this in countries where peaceful gatherings and marches have led to street fights and even riots.
Apart from this restriction, political events can be freely held indoors. Since 2004, there is no need to apply for a Police permit for indoor political speeches if it involves only Singaporeans. In addition, with effect from 1 Sep this year, political parties may now organise outdoor political events and demonstrations at the Speakers’ Corner without a permit. Citizens too may organise demonstrations including political ones at Speakers’ Corner without having to obtain a police permit.
Ms Sylvia Lim asks for the basis for Police to grant a permit that enabled the Prime Minister to participate in a cycling activity in West Coast Park on 31 Aug 2008.
Let me first clarify that it was not a cycling event but a Family Day Carnival. The only cycling was when the Prime Minister and the other special guests made their entrance by cycling a short distance from where the Prime Minister had alighted from his car to the stage. Secondly, it was not organized by a political party but by a registered charity.
The Carnival was organised by the PAP Community Foundation (PCF) for the children and families of PCF kindergartens and childcare centres. The PCF is a registered charity with a social mission. While it is affiliated to the PAP, the PCF has remained completely non-political since its setup in 1986, running kindergartens, child care, student care and aged care centres, charging very reasonable fees. It also offers community health screening with other providers and raises funds for charitable causes. I understand that at the PCF Carnival, a sum of S$664,000 was distributed to 17 welfare organisations by PM.
The authorities considered the family day setting and community service focus of the event as well as the status of PCF as a registered charity and did not object to the event as the policy of disallowing outdoor political events did not apply in this situation.
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I really feel very sorry for Minister Ho. He is trying to do Olympic-style acrobatics in order to defend what is indefensible.
He says:
Police will not grant permits for outdoor political events.
Then later, he says:
… with effect from 1 Sep this year, political parties may now organise outdoor political events and demonstrations at the Speakers’ Corner without a permit.
So, lets see if I got this right: Political parties are not allowed to hold outdoor events because trouble may occur – BUT political parties are free to hold outdoor events at Speakers’ Corner – which is an outdoor venue?
Am I missing something here?
Trouble can starts anywhere, whether indoor or outdoor. By stating the potential of risk of trouble by banning outdoor activities organise by opposition parties is bias and unfair. And if the police is so “psychic” then they should be able to pre-empt all the robberies, crimes, molestation etc. in Singapore. We should be a peaceful country that no crimes can be committed because our “psychic” police would have arrested the culprits. What a wonderful world it will be…….
What Ho Peng Kee is effectively saying is that all other political parties except PAP are only alowed to hold small scale outdoor events at the pathetic Hong Lim Park. PAP is and will continue to freely hold outdoor events at any venue of their fancy!!
Why are we paying this guy $2 million a year to give the public such a lame excuse??? Is he saying a cycling event is far more dangerous than family gathering? Is he saying the Police is going for form over substance (any fool can tell you that PCF is just a facade for PAP)??
What an insult to the public’s intelligence!
I’m not the least convinced by his explanation. Suggest WP establish its own charitable organisation.
So the “new” rules are clear. The opposition parties can register “social clubs”
and organise outdoor food and fun fairs, kite flying groups, walkaton,
cycling, street football etc. These are friendly and socially acceptable recreations.
While I applaud many who write with courage against the ruling coalition, I am still disappointed that such passion do not develop into actions during the elections.
What is the point of crying over spilt milk? Grab the opportunity during the election to send the message across and not to rant in the internet.
Obviously indeed, but then again what can he possibly says besides what he is supposed to say to keep his monthly flow of $$$ going. Anybody would knows what is going on here.
Does turning up under the PCF banner makes the Prime Minister not a politician that can attract mayhem???? hehe.
In the UK, affiliation to a political party can lead to closure of the charity.
Let’s start a WCF immediately, since they want to challenge our intelligence, we should do the same!
I feel sorry for A/P Ho. The questions were directed at the “Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Home Affairs”, yet his esteemed boss, Wong Kan Seng, arrowed him to answer the question AGAIN.
What do you expect him to say? That his own party is using the taxpayer funded police to play partisan politics???
To add insult to injury, we must be really dumb to accept his arguments. “The PCF is a registered charity with a social mission. While it is affiliated to the PAP, the PCF has remained completely non-political since its setup in 1986″
Yes, the GST increase is to help poor, we have a world class transport system, the Ministers salary increase was to ensure that they are not corrupted, Mat Selamat escape was a lapse and the government makes only honest mistakes. I’m Santa and lets all live in the glory of past acheivements while we are getting screwed daily when the reserves are being used to helping foreign institutions stay afloat. We are happily selling local assets (of essential services) while we are busy buying dying banks and offshore assets. No one knows how much the national assets are and we have to believe in their systems of checks and balance.
It seems to me the political situation in Singapore is somewhat a reflection to that of Malaysia. There are too many controls on freedom and this is what is going to do the PAP in. Any dissent is suppressed, only the opinions of the PAP is justified. People can only be suppressed for so long and beyond that they will awake and then a change in governance will be inevitable.
It is indeed hard to question whatever they do, however contradictory their actions were or are, simply because they are the ones who make / break the Rules, bend, & remoddifies it to suit their cause & shelter their faces.
Mr Ho has given an answer that is whiter than white. Factually incorrupt. But to all thinking Singaporeans, we all know PAP is going like a shade of yellow – actually like shit liddat.
Good luck to them at the next elections :(
Does this mean, WP affiliated charitable organization is also allowed to hold outdoor events just like PCF ? I assume we live in a society based on justice and equality. Based on that, can it be assumed that WP can still organize outdoor events with LTK wearing a cycling helmet and waving to his supporters?
As you can see, I am clueless, nice to meet you!
I can only hope to hear it from the mouth of the highly honorable and man of integrity, mr Wong, or if he is not free, the highly educated Ho .
Else, could someone out of the so many whiter than white just as honorable men or women ask this question in the parliment?
Guess how much public interest this question hold?
layman suhker of mayrill litch
Got to admit, I find the argument a bit spurious. The crux is whether the activity is political in nature.
Prof Ho suggest that PCF is ok because its activities are non-political but non-political activity performed by PAP or WP not allowed.
This suggest that WP can set up a structure just to perform the activity = ok? Then the focus goes onto the structure or form rather than the substance.
To muddy waters, does this mean that commercial entities can hold political events? Just because its structure is not political?
By not agreeing to a political party hosting a charity event ironically politicises charity events.
My beef is that no organisation, PAP, WP, political or otherwise, should be barred from hosting charitable events. By restricting it does show a certain lack of charity which is inconsistent with the current aims of encouraging people (everyone) to donate….
Usual crap from this guy who groups citizens and PRs under “Residents’. ‘Foreigners now refers to those awaiting PR approval, and on work permit, employment pass, etc.
… with effect from 1 Sep this year, political parties may now organise outdoor political events and demonstrations at the Speakers’ Corner without a permit.
will there be a limit to the number of pple who can turn up for outdoor political events and demonstrations at the Speakers’ Corner organised by political parties???
Its been confirmed! With this sort of explanation, the PAP government , through this learned professor, is still treating the citizens as fools, idiots and little children.
“PCF have a track record of not record of not involved in political activities”
then why the hell do they threaten to withdrawn their kindergarden facilities to constituencies that voted for opposiion?
HPK barely survived his seat in last election and need the help of the old man to campaign for him. Does he deserved any respect from us?
“HPK barely survived his seat in last election and need the help of the old man to campaign for him. Does he deserved any respect from us?”
Let us know which current million-dollar ministers deserves respect from mortal man ? Even a 4 million dollars per year prataman can’t even make a world-class number-one prata and we paying him so much.
The ministers here never fail to amuse us with their talking-cock lame excuses. Albeit high cost of living here, I am fortunate to live in Singapore so that I can listen to million-dollar joke out of these “world-class” joker even though the joke is on us. They really deserve Nobel prize because they are highly-qualified with many of them been scholars. Their ideas are beyond mortal man’s intelligence and understandling. Their ideas defy rationality and nature’s law, and that is why they are world-class.
If there is top political joke vote in Youtube, I give them full mark.
Pro ho is good at what he does, I think we all can agree that all the reasoning seems to be the same. If you can’t convice them, confuse them!
If my short termed memory serves me correctly, there was this thing about Cars being made affordable, but now we got to many cars we need to have more ERP ganteries to solve the traffic blues.
I really can’t seem to relate to any of this, it could be my brain cells are dying, or could it be the “Emperors new clothes “syndrome??
/// 2) sotong on September 16th, 2008 9.17 pm
Trouble can starts anywhere, whether indoor or outdoor. ///
sotong – I would have thought that trouble inside a packed auditorium will be even more disastrous than a riot outdoor. Can you imagine the pandemonium and stampede if a trouble maker were to shout “fire!, fire!, fire!” indoor?
And yet according to HPK:
/// Police’s position on outdoor political events is due to the assessed potential for public disorder which politically driven events can lead to, even when this is not intended by the organiser. We have seen ample evidence of this in countries where peaceful gatherings and marches have led to street fights and even riots.
Apart from this restriction, political events can be freely held indoors. Since 2004, there is no need to apply for a Police permit for indoor political speeches if it involves only Singaporeans. ///
Disingenuous specious sophistry.
I think this Ho Peng Kee always twist and twist and turn and turn. No wonder why Nee Soon people don’t trust him la. Last time in General Elections, temple people also don’t trust him. He needed to get LKY come settle.
Now we all know why people don’t trust Ho Peng Kee. His tongue can twist better than a snake!
totally rubbish, then PCF should change name to charitable community foundation.
i seriously think the govt shd state out all of the non PAP’s related non-political parties for all to see.
to me PCF stands for PAP Community Foundation, n PAP stands for People Action Party, and it is a political party, not a charity organisation.
Its a matter of playing with words.
WP still just start a WPCF and says it is just a not for profit kindergarden and make request again. I think it will be rejected again, why?
because the govt will say WPCF’s kid tend to have a higher chances of being involved in a commotion with public
where is fairness here in singapore?
“The PCF is a registered charity with a social mission. While it is affiliated to the PAP, the PCF has remained completely non-political since its setup in 1986, running kindergartens, child care, student care and aged care centres, charging very reasonable fees.”
“Since the PCF is affiliated to the PAP, it is ‘quite natural’ for its services to be withdrawn when a ward goes to the opposition, replied Assoc Prof Ho, but the services themselves ‘are surely unpolitical in nature’.”
In short, PCF itself is not political but it is used as a political chip by a certain party. Yet he calls it a registered charity with a social mission.
Never mind folks, another new thing to learn so you will never get bored. I wonder how they could even communicate & agree among themselves with such unorthodox style.
If I were a high-flyer and sought-after by the PAP as a potential candidate, I would seriously be put off by such pathetic play of semantics by no less than a Senior Minister of State.
I think that is a serious problem – when Ministers start twisting form with substance to advance a failing argument. This is what they need to do, sadly, when the law which they themselves enact are self-centred, selfish and unfair.
I expect more of such stupidity to come.
I guess the poor dude is caught with his pants down this time, frankly if i were in his shoes at his age and his status, I would feel really blue to have made such a statement, Its really depressing to have to swallow and spit out such statements.
Any banner with a PAP logo is deemed to be political to me, whichever way you make it out to be it is still the same.
I am very sure not many people will want to join the PAP after reading all that is happening in our first world country.
By the way did anyone spot MSK ? Maybe crime watch should feature his grand escape, I am sure many are dying to know how he managed to escape.
““Since the PCF is affiliated to the PAP, it is ‘quite natural’ for its services to be withdrawn when a ward goes to the opposition, replied Assoc Prof Ho, but the services themselves ‘are surely unpolitical in nature’.”\
This will be one of the famous quotes of the year !
If you can’t convince them, confuse them !
What kind of KANGAROO LAW PAP MAKEs ? If that is the case, aren’t those in opposition ward exempted from going to NS, pay GST, pay ERP etc ? as this is ‘are surely unpolitical in nature’ as well ?
All these expensive clowns never stop to make me laugh.
We need to have parliament debates more frequently so that I can listen to more Kangaroo jokes. It sure brightens my day !
18) lim on September 17th, 2008 9.24 am
…..
Prof Ho suggest that PCF is ok because its activities are non-political but non-political activity performed by PAP or WP not allowed.
This suggest that WP can set up a structure just to perform the activity = ok? Then the focus goes onto the structure or form rather than the substance.
…..
————————————-
There are 2 ways at least to find out if the same method can be used by WP.
1. WP register a charity org the same as that of PCF.
2. the other way to find out : We already know the answer.
20) Tulan on September 17th, 2008 12.02 pm Usual crap from this guy who groups citizens and PRs under “Residents’. ‘Foreigners now refers to those awaiting PR approval, and on work permit, employment pass, etc.
——————————
Can we confirm he is the one who so creatively grouped the foreigners with the locals into 1 category for the ‘benefit’ of giving clearer statistics to unemployment rate? PR is a foreigner holding a long term work permit, in my humble and layman view.
HPK so intelligent! which ward or GRC he contesting in next har?
Must shift there to support him.
3) ronin on September 16th, 2008 9.40 pm What Ho Peng Kee is effectively saying is that all other political parties except PAP are only alowed to hold small scale outdoor events at the pathetic Hong Lim Park. PAP is and will continue to freely hold outdoor events at any venue of their fancy!!
——————————–
But they say LIBERALISE what ? no meh ?
Btw, I got this weird impression that an opposition party in spore is not as effective as an Activist group in terms of voicing up at HLP.
This is the mudder of all irony.
Spore 1st world ah!
What happened to IBA thingies har?
regards
Pinkie Ho
What is the meaning of Liberalization in spore context?
Let this be clear to the people.
btw I like the pic of hpk, he seems to be holding something in the air ?
i not sure.
Maybe Ho PK can provide us “ignorant” citizens of what constitutes a “non-dangerous” outdoor event.
We can start the list with “short distance cycling”, since Ho PK has implied that this is “safe”.
How “dangerous” is roller-blading as an outdoor event? Barbecuing? Captain’s Ball? Table tennis?
PCF activity is different from PAP activity???
ALL IS BULL SHIT>>…<<< who believe…??/
COme on,don made sing pp seen like kid or animals…!!OK…
wat the gov ans made me feel like vomiting..
all the law just to protect themselves?? hai.,now tekong can bring handphone lo,must thank LKY grandson…hahas.,.but its good for Ns man..:)
but in the next election,GOD WILL BLESS opposition party..but not pap anymore.becos their fate is going to over…
hahas.
singaporeans,,please don make me disappointed again..
STAND UP.don be scared..PAP members is just people,human being..
THEY R rich….so what….all of the singaporeans have ONE vote,no matter rich or poor…
STand up to make a different singapore…thank.
from:
@young generation@
I think HPK himself feel how stupid he sounded spewing these craps.
But because he is part of the system, he’ got to swallow his pride and went along with the flow to the ridicule of the masses. Pity that for the sake of well paid position, he is willing to be the court jester.
Tell you so much about our Div 1 leaders!
38) ronin on September 18th, 2008 11.55 am
————-
Allow me to suggest a concern I have from a nightmare I had last night.
I dreamt that F1 being exciting and thrilling and outdoor sport caused a ah pek heart pulpitation problem and he went to hospital for heart check as he kenna heart attack and also due to sniffing in the fumes from the F1 tires.
Is this valid concern that outdoor sports like F1 can cause fatalities?
i no no , just concerned. what about you?
even walking on road may be dangerous wor.
yup.. don’t cry over spil milk…
Every election year, they walked right back into parliament without breaking a sweat.
Who can blame them if they believe they have the mandate of the people?
Comment 39 – Jack..
HPK feel stupid spewing those craps?
Don’t kid yourself.. he is laughing his ass off just thinking how stupid you are to be willing to accept that crap without a fight.
Oh btw, for that kind of money.. I am willing to bare my ass on National TV if my master demands it.
the pap is not really good at playing with words in parliament. I do not think most reasonable people would accept the fact that PCF is a charitable foundation since inception and this is one reason why permit was issued to them. Let’s face a fact. Ho Peng Kee said it’s affiliated to the PAP. True the PCF is tasked to educate the children and assist the needy but the bigger question arise by whose definition of education will we be teaching the little kids? Neutral syllabus? Much as PAP would like to said this, we all know that it would be difficult to happen since PCF itself is actually affiliated to PAP. I am really afraid that these small little kids will grow up to believe that PAP=Singapore=Government. When the fact is Govt is temporal and elected. PCF contain the PAP symbol which must be questioned. I would plead that the opposition put up a strong case for this. WCF maybe you could try one. I am extremely perturbed by the fact that PAP is actually arrogantly crediting itself with what Singapore has been achieving without actually thanking the ordinary folks out there. They said without PAP, Singapore will die? Is that true?
PAP controls People Association and all. This makes the youths (the Universities, Polytechnics and other students) feels a bit irritated with the ruling Party. We want democracy especially at Tanjong Pagar. We need to test the mettle of the PAP. We really need. We do not want this country to be a on eparty system. Singaporeans let’s stand up and prove to the PAP that we do not need them for us to survive. What we need is genuine, and talented Singaporeans with the spirit to serve…and no I’m not referring to the Govt scholars per se.
“They said without PAP, Singapore will die? Is that true?”
Those clowns also said that protest will create riot and violence, and Singapore cannot tahan it, and yet I never see riot and violence when protest held in Hong Lim Park, so why MSM keep mum about this revelation ? Gullible Singaporean good to bully, is it ?
I give him no marks for the way he explain to the question posed by Sylvia,
but full marks for being able to twist and turn better than Chubby Checker!
Strange explanation and obviously lying. My friend who works in PCF says all PCF staff by default becomes PAP member and during elections, they have roster and is expected to help MPs in their campaigning and walkabouts.
This means PCF is a political arm of PAP since it indulges in political activities and campaigns. PCF is poltical and carry heavy political overtones and connotations even if it is just a family event and have a social mission, which political party have no family event and social mission ??.
This kind of low grade explanation, parliament can also accept ??
Strange Love,
Glad someone mention it as I know along this happens but wonder why take so long for someone to mention it.
well, in uniquely Singapore, any kangaroo reasons can be accepted as long as it is from Kangaroo.
That is the problem with a party having absolute power. What they say is like a mandate from emperor. No one to dispute it, no one to question it, no one to give a damn anymore. It will just be moved on very soon. Anyway, this debacle will just be hopped away just like those before it and gradually fade from memory of the citizen. Did someone mention about RC too ?
Like AngMoh friends tell me, Singaporean is well-known for short memory and I totally agree.
Sad. Very sad.
Talk so much no use. Just vote them out. Haven’t u people got bluff so many time till u feel so numb already.
Hi ! to all Singapore Elites,
Kindly stop insulting our wisdom, we understands what are the meanings of these words : Nepotism, Constituted Rule of Law, Democracy, Justice, Power Abuse, Lips Service And Being Conscientious to serve the Peoples.
Please don’t brings more shame to your own FamiLee’s Ancestors and Our Country.
Best Regards,
Fong M.Y.
I dont even know why anyone bothers to reason with the PAP or try to find some logic in their reasoning or some measure of sense in what they say. remember this.
EVERYTHING THEY SAY IS CORRECT AND TRUE.
IF YOU SAY ANYTHING OTHERWISE YOU ARE CALLING THEM LIARS AND ARE DEFAMING THEM.
So wtf is the point of arguing?
It should be all simple with everone now. We should just quit this damm country (while we still can)!
those of you who kept using the “66.6%” as your so called “counter-attack”, you do realise that those “66.6%” who you kept blaming for giving pap the “mandate” do not necessarily hang around here right? and you do realise that those “66.6%” who voted for the pap numbers just about 700k right? and you do realise that the odds are against us from the very beginning in every elections right?