Political openness - for PAP only
Tuesday, 2 September 2008, 4:13 pm | 604 views
Andrew Loh / Deputy Editor
If our society is ruled by two different sets of laws – or laws applied selectively - for different people or political parties, it cannot but fracture and disintegrate.
Barely two weeks after he announced more space for political expression, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong and his colleagues from the People’s Action Party (PAP) could very well have just shown what this ‘openness’ mean – for the ruling party.
On Sunday, the PAP Community Foundation organised a ‘PAP carnival’ at West Coast Park. This was reported by the Straits Times on its front page, with a big picture of PM Lee on a bicycle. The event would be nothing out of the ordinary if not for one small detail: outdoor events by political parties are banned – or at least that is what the PAP Government itself says. This was explained in no uncertain terms in Parliament last year (2007) by the Senior Minister of State for Law and Home Affairs, Professor Ho Peng Kee, and carried in news reports by our mainstream press.
The ban, said Minister Ho, is a ‘longstanding one’ because ‘outdoor gatherings by parties have the potential to cause a public disturbance.’ (Straits Times).
Ho explained this in his reply to questions from the Workers’ Party MPs in Parliament, who asked why the WP’s application to hold a cycling event at East Coast Park was rejected by the police. The Minister had said then:
The East Coast Park is a recreational park for Singaporeans and their families. It is not meant to be used by a political party to promote its cause.
Apart from displacing the usual recreational users…it is an open area where there is greater potential for breach of the peace, public disorder and unruly behaviour.
Minister Ho did not care even if the organisers themselves were ‘well-behaved’:
… even if the organisers were well behaved, others there might still cause problems.
And to top it off, Minister Ho defended his position by saying:
You may be well-behaving, but there may be other people whom you come across when you cycle who may stop you, may want to debate with you and that may attract a crowd, and therefore will result in problems the police want to avoid.
And the final nail in the coffin:
He said that police required political events to be held indoors or in stadiums where problems could be contained, adding that the WP could consider these venues. The policy applied to all political parties.
‘The policy applied to all political parties.’
Well, apparently not.
Having adopted such an unequivocal position on the issue, one wonders how Minister Ho would explain the police granting the People’s Action Party a permit to hold an outdoor event on Sunday – where ‘thousands thronged the park’ and ‘a host of ministers and MPs [making] their entrance on bicycles’, as reported by the Straits Times. (One presumes that a police permit was applied for and, obviously, given.)
(Read also: A CASE of double standards?)
While we may criticise the Government, the PAP, Minister Ho or even the police, for this seemingly biased application of the law, there is a wider and more important issue which such selective application of the law throws up - and this is; are we seeing a Government which would, apparently, disregard the law when it suits its purpose; what impact will this have on the wider society? On what moral authority would the Government be able to require everyone else to adhere to and obey the law if it does not do so itself?
Sadly, such behaviour by the ruling party can only breed further resentment and cynicism not only among its dissenters but also increasingly among those who have supported it as well.
As we said in an earlier article on the way the Government explained away the Mas Selamat escape fiasco, the Government’s lack of accountability is bad for the PAP but worse for Singapore.
For if our society is ruled by two different sets of laws – or laws applied selectively - for different people or political parties, it cannot but fracture and disintegrate. The PAP would do well to remember that a leader whose moral authority is questionable is one whom no one respects.
Ironically, the slippery-slope argument which Minister Ho used to explain and justify his rejection of permits for other political parties, in the end, could result in his own PAP sliding down that slippery slope itself.
If it hasn’t already.
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i duno what standard is this.
But its quite obivous that this is “Double” Standards
It should be the case that the same rule applies to all parties regardless it ruling or opposition.
I foresee even people question PAP, they will reply that times have changed and their organised event will not cause any “harm” to any of the public when Opposition’s do not have any good organisation or plans to do one. Hence their’s will cause ” harm” to public.
How to have a 1st class country when we do not have a 1st class and transparent system?
As far as I am concern, it is PROFANITY to me…
Any comment from PAP on this?
If the majority has any issue with this standard, they would kpkb already right?
spore is young.
spore is also 1st world ah.
stedi until cannot boon ah.
1st world citizens for all to see ah.
IT REALLY DEPENDS ON THE MAJORITY, in me humble opinionated.
I am clueless, nice to meet you!
Now that their MSMs have been caught napping and reported it on front page news, I can see plenty of red faces on these Pappies.
Low and Sylvia should ask about this within or outside Parliament . It would interesting to see how is their reply.
Look for wayang to come! tok tok cheng!
Ah . . . you see, PAP Community Foundation is NOT a political organisation.
PCF is a non-political, charitable orgranisation associated with the PAP. See the PAP website below :
http://www.pap.org.sg/community_pcf.shtml
So, strict technical interpretation will say that the police is perfectly legitimate to issue a permit to PCF without contradicting what the Senior MOS said in parliament last year.
But for all intent and purposes, it is the PAP that is holding the event. It is a way to work around their own laws to stop political organisation of holding public outdoor events.
Naughty . . . naughty . . .
If the WP wants to hold an outdoor event, they can try to do the same. Register a WP Community Foundation WCF. But the catch is : Will the relevant govt authority grant WCF charity status ? Your guess is as good as mine.
1) 123 on September 2nd, 2008 5.07 pm
Your point is interesting.
However, here is how one may see it:
1. there are so many people’s representatives in the parl.
2. If the majority also see this as double standard, would they not want their Representatives to voice up in parl for them?
3. If so, how many of these representatives represented such views, if any? Afterall, their existence is substantially to represent the people is it not?
4. If not, does this mean the Majority had not voiced to their people representative?
5. If not, does this mean the Majority had voiced but somehow not mentioned in parl? Got to give these blokes in parl credit man, they sacrifice for the people whom they represent siah, so great and honorable wor. Of course like this they get paid to represent the people wor.
singaporeans really highly educated until so high can touch the sky.
But study is not everything. Its purely academic. Welcome to the real world.
5) Yamasam on September 2nd, 2008 5.51 pm
so, the question is why had the WP not done so?
If they get approved, I buy you mee siam with or without the hum, as you wish.
double standard? where gawd? hee hee hor?
Maybe Activists do it easier or higher chance success since its non political, on paper.
Like this mean no more runaway cycling anymore ah?
next time how to hold international events?
youth olympics safe to hold or not?
will it attrack people who want to argue as youth olympians cycle on spore road?
safe or not har ah ho?
TOC
Before writing piece, got check to see if “PAP Community Foundation” is different legal entity from PAP the political party?
PAP Community Foundation could be charity.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Dear A Tan,
The PCF stands for PAP Community Foundation which runs all of the PAP kindergartens. I do not believe they are a charity organisation. I also do not see how it would be different or detached from the political party if the “P” in “PCF” stands for People’s Action Party.
Second, if you look at the PCF’s logo, it has the PAP lightning logo within it.
Third, this latest cycling/ouitdoor event is not the only one which seems to contravene the law. In our previous article, we had highlighted the Young PAP’s cycling events as well. Please see here.
Lastly, to run such kindergartens, the funding will have to come from the PAP and not the govt, as I understand it. Also, as I understand it, it is no less than $5 million.
More space for political expression? More openess?
Izit all the lamp posts in Singapore enuff space for expressions of idol worship? What next? Should we have to face people handling out flyers and parading with mobile posters?
Spare me from such daily torture please. Agony once in 5 years is enuff.
Openess? Pls keep it in the closet if it is of such a version.
It is an open secret that PAP is above the law, any law in S’pore!!
PAP-set laws apply to alternative political parties, whereas the former can basically act as they please!!
One country, two systems!
I guess these things have been happening for ages and now with the internet age our good old PAP can’t seem to keep up with their past exposures.
Skeletons in the closet, you might call it.
What the Singapore people need to do now is to wake up and not be scared that change is for the better, and vote for a better Singapore that belongs to you and me and our children. We (the people of Singapore) have come so far to build this nation and it is time to enjoy the returns.
Parties that tell you that “GST is to help the poor” and to “not think of retirement”
should be retired as they are running out of solutions and slogans to serve the people that believe they could provide a better future for Singaporeans.
We still got time and the masses will eventually swam and awake the call for a better govt.
Change is the only constant.
best quotes to date are
1)GST is to help the poor
2) People are homeless by Choice
3) No one will be left behind
4) We can help, but not too much
5) Pay more to prevent corruption
6) your wifes and daughters will be maids in another country
Maybe TOC should have a page where people can put these infamous quotes and make a RAP video and include hip hop beats.
After seeing what is happening in Singapore these days - Thank God I took my family out of Singapore thirty years ago.
13) ronin on September 2nd, 2008 9.14 pm
if you ask Flying duetcheman, what will he say?
hahaha.
catch him on blogtv on cna. he show what he is really about.
TOC 1 man vs 4 similar views that support FT.
Now I know more about TOC.
16) Mum on September 2nd, 2008 10.18 pm
I wonder if a child is born with some disadvantage, with influx from all over , guess what his future will be like?
a company is great for business and work. that’s all.
a hotel is great for temporary shelter.
a home is where the heart is.
a life is ….
u know they alway have double standard but you people still have faith in these people. you people have ‘ double vision.’ ( can’t see what they will lead us to but still vote for these people). you people are the real numb skull.
What the F%@K did you expect?
Are some people still listening to the empty promises. Someone needs to run independent checks on what is being put into the ‘New water’ everyone is drinking.
It is highly disgusting that PAP practice such blatant double standards…this shows that PAP had considered themselves above all laws.
I hope the Worker Party will make this an issue for all citizens to see the true ugly face and hypocritical nature of PAP.
It is a honest mistake! Let’s close ranks and move on! What to do, it happened!
So LTK better wise up and ask who the laws are applied to next time.
I had started to forward this article to all my friends and also foreign publications/news agency, it is a damn good article to dispel PAP’s self-proclaimed righteouness and fair-play.
I have lost that very little respect left for PAP in me forever!
# Rainnix
Well said, but if it was the opposition who had committed such honest mistakes, will PAP and their supporters close rank and move on…we know the answers!
PAP will see that they go to jail or being declared a bankrupt for all to see and FEAR!!!!
everypeoples please join in hands together to fight with the pap!!
everywhere u speak is your voice is demoractic your voice your party !!
yah where gathering together
PAP will see us go to jail or being declared a bankrupt for all to see and let us FEAR i m not scare of them pap members !!!!
told the pap members that they are scared of me hahahahahahahhohohohehehehehe!!!
pap go to hell !!!hahahahaha
The civil service has a HR policy, which states that degree-holder civil servants may join political parties, but they may not hold office in any political party. However, I notice that there are a lot of civil servants who are serving in exco positions in PAP branches. An example is in Taman Jurong where the branch secretary is a teacher called Rencheng. This is clearly a conflict of interest, especially since a teacher is a civil servant. Best of all, the ex-Minister for MOE is the MP there. So ironic. So is the party so desperate that they will go against the govt’s HR policy and appoint civil servants? Why? Are the top minds only in the civil service? Double standards?
As I see it, the govt recognises now that it has to improve on its political openness; hence allowing protest to be held at the Speaker’s Corner. I think that the political space will be increased gradually, depending on how the developments at Speaker’s Corner take shape. If all is well managed, then more rules may be relaxed. Prof Ho’s comments were made in 2007, and much had changed since. WP may try to apply to hold its cycling rally at EC again, and see the response. As with all of us, I am curious to know the status and the reasons.
Andrew
I take the point on the Young PAP activities but that’s another issue.
The assumption of the piece in question was that the PAP and the foundation were one and the same.
Whatever you or TOC may think, the law may draw subtle distinctions between the PAP and this foundation: evidence of close ties notwithstanding. I don’t know. But then I didn’t write the piece.
Surely it would be prudent and responsible to establish the facts? I once practicsed law. And it taught me that the law is about establishing facts not soaring rhetoric and logical arguments. Without facts to back them, they are BS.
TOC should not let its zeal for fairness (something I applaud) overcome the simple but often difficult task of getting the facts right. Remember- JBJ had (and still has) a good heart, but his fact checking led him down.
There is no point in flaming the PAP, it’s like echoes in the empty hallways that goes eventually dies off…. what we need to do is to exercise our vote to ensure we get the hard earned quality of life for Singaporeans, also please share the above article with your fellow Singaporeans to get them to think with their own brain and to make an informed decision when voting
A Tan :
While one can frame an argument on the subtle distinctions between the PAP and the PAP foundation, one cannot believe that Singapore’s law / police stands completely impartial between the political parties.
And if the problem stems from the lack of neutrality then it remains that opposition events will face discrimination, no matter how it is shaped.
How much would you bet, of the WP chances of getting a permit for a WP community foundation event at East Coast Park?
Despite great hopes - it is still ” you hear and hope ” but we can and do continue to do to the contrary and for all to see type of distorted openess.
To my fellow netizen at ” People_ Reprezemted”, above, the flying dutchman will take next budget flight out if there is trouble, so forget that irritant and all the FTs who are only here for the fair weather.
Discounting respectfully the present opposition for the time being, I used to think that we have a hope in Amy Khor - but it may be down to only one - Dr Lily Neo to bravely speak up and take a stand for the people.
If the farce continue, people may decide in 2010 that enough is enough, and It will be a sadder day for me.
I pray that the true Singaporean people’s voices be listened to seriouly before it is too late.
AC (#35)
The point is that if Andrew had made the point you had made: “How much would you bet, of the WP chances of getting a permit for a WP community foundation event at East Coast Park?”, I would not have commented as I think I strret smart.
As it stands, TOC and Andrew could possibly be sued for defaming some government department because the Attorney-General could argue that his piece means “one cannot believe that Singapore’s law / police stands completely impartial between the political parties”.
Such a law suit could ruin TOC’s sterling efforts in promoting fairness etc.
TOC, you have my email. If you want to do some research on this issue, contact me and I’ll give access to a database that may help you clarify the issues. There may be a ministerial statement from the long ago on the subtle differences, S’pore style.
I’m amused at the number of comments here from people who are inflamed by the `cycling’ event’ double standard.
If you look around you will see many more examples of double standard, which perhaps only members of the minority could perceive quietly.
Take a look at the many notices and even newsletters, which are printed only in English and Chinese. Why not in all the 4 official languages, or to be fair, just in English? I was told that it would help the elderly Chinese who can’t read English. Does that mean there are no elderly Malays or Indians who can’t read English? Or is it because the number is so small that it does not make economic sense to spend that much more?
My friends from the minority told me that such double standard is something to be expected and that there is no use making noise about it, as long as generally things are fine, and in more critical matters there are fairness and justice.
So if you are very unhappy about this `cycling event’ double standard, do talk to members of the minorities and they can provide you with a list of things which you may be politically blind to until now.
Ho PK cannot even handle his own consituency, remember the temple row during the last GE? The old man got step in to help him out, that speaks volumes abt our “elected” representatives. The biggest fear I have is that they let this kind of rhetoric elevate their false sense of importance, leading to a “I know it best” or “it is simplistic” kind of answers to feedback. At the end of the day, they choose not to listen to you and treat others like dogs barking in the middle of the night.
Anyone knows how the PAP funds its activities?
“33) A Tan on September 3rd, 2008 5.42 am I once practicsed law. ”
When we give comments and opinions, do not keeping talking about law lah. This is not a Court, this is a internet forum where anyone (not lawyers only lah) can be right and wrong lah. Here, we learn lah and hopefully from someone who can tell us what is right lah. Not everyone is a lawyer here and thinks like a lawyer lah. Common sense lah.
Law is very technical lah (with strict and sometimes conflicting parameters) and the books are very thick lah and decision always depends on the judges lah (who are also human lah). So thick that you can even be penalised technically for abuse of animals / insects for terminating the innocent life of a wonderful creature like a cockroach lah - in short killing a life lah.
“And it taught me that the law is about establishing facts not soaring rhetoric and logical arguments.”
Yes lah. You will always see a face in front of a person and I will always see a backside behind a person lah. That is a fact lah.
So chim, soaring rhetoric and logical arguments. The above article is so clear and here you telling us about soaring rhetoric and logical arguments. Most people do not talk about soaring rhetoric and logical arguments. Most people will say how they feel in plain and simple enlish lah (sometimes always ending with a singlish lahs).
if my memory serves me right, I remember a debate in Parliament where Mr Chiam argued until face turned white that the logo in PAP Community Foundation has a lightning and resembles that of PAP; but was told that it is not a PAP organisation.
what else can we say?
Dear Mr Tan,
May I say that the authority can easily find reasons to sue / charge many individuals with known real life identity for various online activities. However, it is not doing it to conform with its light touch pledge.
For example, Gopalan Nair is not sued for defamation.
While your concern is valid, the question is how likely the authority will take on such action to blow its light touch image?
Regards.
Talking about double standards, a good friend pointed out to me that our division one ministers will tell you that competition by FT is good for Singapore.Why, the simple fact remains that they are not affected by them. Their position is not threatened and never will be. The fact remains that we can have Clinton, Putin, Manmohan Singh and even Wen Jiabaofor the price we are paying our PM,SM and MM. We can have the best talents from the world to help us and the people to achieve better results (definitely better than 2 & 3% return on our CPF, a ripoff of the people’s hard earned money over the years) The argument about national duty, patriotism and honour in serving the country does not apply anymore given the arguments put forward for their salary increase and supported by the Ministers’ statements on the table tennis team. So are we getting the best money can buy, many know that this is not the case but they sit cosy in their self appointed kingdoms where they are untouchable. For that matter, their family and cronies are also not at all affected by the influx of FT and furthermore they benefit as business owners in terms of cost and loyalty.
Ah! Mr Tan, that reminds us, double standards also apply to the law.
38) Slimfold on September 3rd, 2008 10.03 am
I’m amused about people like you who do not mind that this double standard is practised by certain group of people who are supposedly tasked to ensure that this double standard should not happen - e.g by setting a higher standard of example for what they are paid to do.
I guess with your utmost calibre of analysis you should be able to discern that the standard of the normal men in the street and the standard as demanded from a higher breed of some annointed group should be very different. I do not have to part anything with the former but for the latter, I guess you know the meaning of GST and tax.
Just like what some people like to say. Do not oppose for the sake of opposition. Same goes to you, do not give example just for the sake of giving example.
The PAP is not so stupid to apply for a permit. They do these things through proxies (i.e organisations, affiliated groups and such) Therefore they are only invited guests. And they also act as government representatives, not PAP party members. This line is always blurred.
So for WP, or all opp for that matter, just get a kindergarden, a mamashop or whatever organisation they have connections with and get the permit through a proxy la. Then WP people are invited guests.
If you cant win them join them!!
I know.
How about TOC organise a cycling event. Get all the paper work done then invited all the opp as guests.
On boh?
[...] Fixating the Opposition - TOC: Political openness - for PAP only [...]
The government wants to engage the New Media.
The 1st lesson it should learn is: don’t threaten to sue.
The 2nd lesson it should learn is: don’t pretend to know all.
The 3rd lesson it should learn is: don’t pretend it can decide when to “move on”.
The 4th lesson it should learn is stop trying to justify its positions with half-baked logics and data.
“9) A Tan on September 2nd, 2008 6.36 pm TOC
Before writing piece, got check to see if “PAP Community Foundation” is different legal entity from PAP the political party?
PAP Community Foundation could be charity.”
Assuming that they are different entities, just legal entities but very ‘dead’ without the people (human element) running it. So what do you think as a legal professional if the key people over them completely overlap, assuming that it overlaps 100% which may not be the case. Hey I am not a lawyer like you, so do excuse me. I guess you have also heard of this famous term “Substance over form”.
I am again assuming that you are the same A Tan as in 33) A Tan on September 3rd, 2008 5.42 am.
My friend, you must learn how to relax and be too sticky about old definitions. A lot of old definitions from the old world (seemingly created by old power) no longer have any real value in this present fast changing frightening world. Real value creation comes from doing the real brick-and-mortar stuff, doing the right thing.
i love reform party
i love reform party hahahahaha
it is i that is above the law
we love reform party hahahahaha
It only goes to show that these PAP leaders are a bunch of political liars, no different from Taiwan’s Chen Shui Bian who’s has been lying thro’ his teeth regarding the money laundering of his illegal funds.
Does LKY has anymore moral authority to govern us given this double standards of the PAP government ?
Is it good idea to wait longer or
call in the experts from overseas to augment the strength of the oppose?
they can work as aides behind the scenes , providing strategies and solutions and debate support.
the salary is highest in the world.
thus, i no see no attractiveness to FTs.
FT today, hey, maybe new citizen tomorrow, if they choose to accept.
So, there is no excuse to say there is talent no enuf for oppose.
maybe wait another 10, 000 years lah hor.
regards
chua mui bee of the hoon.
Why pap people can cycle, WP people can not ? Any reason ? Lee got body guard is it, people might throw rotten egg at Low TK is it ?
why dont WP organize a cycle around hong lim park protest
a cycle protest to protest against permission not given for cycling event
WP Sylvia Lim had raised this issue in parliament on 27 Aug 2007
http://wp-in-parliament.blogspot.com/2007/08/outdoor-events-by-political-parties.html
“It only goes to show that these PAP leaders are a bunch of political liars, no different from Taiwan’s Chen Shui Bian who’s has been lying thro’ his teeth regarding the money laundering of his illegal funds.”
Chen Shui Bian is no match for our regime ! It is like a ant compare to a Gorilla. Chen Shui Bian has to do it secretly and under cover, our do it publicly and blatantly, and then tell you info isl confidential and the way Singapore gov works. Our is running a country like business with so much conflict of interest whereas Chen has to be careful due to scrutiny of the public and the press. Chen can be taken to court by the citizen, can we do the same when Kangaroo court exists ? Nope, our gahmen can make every serious mistake as honest mistake and then move on. Corruption here become a honest mistake and move on with MSM provides the firepower.
Taiwan has President Ma but our is the famous Prataman who enjoy his life for $4 millions per year with courtesy of Singapore, and who doesn’t even voice out and do a single thing for citizen other than to cut ribbons and attend social and charity functions. Must be the world’s most fortunate president in the whole world.
What silly fellas we are - obviously it can only be the GOLDEN Rule…
He who has the gold, rules. Simple yes?
Do not watch local TV or listen to local radio prog, watch TVBS.
No LKY, LSL, PAP propaganda!!
Tomolo anyone going cycling?
I tomolo going u know?
Is it legal to cycle?
I saw mr Brown cycling with his foldable ler . So stylo man.
Some people not allowed to cycles izit?
prease adviced ler.
regards
Chua is the mui mui of the bee hoon without harm
Hi all,
I think you all have got it wrong , all this flaming has to stop, please do not appoint partial or the full weight of blame onto the shoulder of our elite professor Ho.
I think what we are possibly seeing here is a case which is similiar to the great Mat Salamats escape.
Pro Ho should not be held directly accountable for this oversight. I think what he needs to do is to set up a independent board of inquiry to investigate this issue before sharing with the public, the actual happenings.
My guess is that the clerk might and the respective chain of command might have forgotten PROFESSORS HO’s comments on all political parties should not be taking part in outdoor events …. such as riding bicycles … because some potential riot might break out, or something to that effect.
We should not hold or suggest PROFESSOR HO to be accountable as he is not directly incharge of the approvals.
so many people f-ing you people. still so thick skin to continue office. shameless !!!!
I wonder why Singaporeans are so naive about a thousand and one way of avoiding unfair and double standard administration of justice and rule of law.
I’ll suggest one example. You do not have to organize any social or recreational event under any political banner. Just advertise for interested participants to join an outdoor social or recreational event. Don’t tell me you need to apply for a permit to rally interested biking enthusiasts for a time of fun and enjoyment, breeze and sunshine outdoors on Sunny Island?
Give it a shot and see what happens. You’ve to use your own creativity, intelligence and ingenuity and outsmart the legalists or hypocrites (double-standard practitioners) with a dose of their bitter herbs or poison pills.
67) liangshan on September 4th, 2008 3.02 pm
I would like to still believe that any Free man should be entitled to cycle. Even ex-convicts, foreigners, construction workers, bankrupts, adults who dont mind porno, rich people who ‘forgot’ to pay tax, old people and even chua mui mui.
Why not advertise for a charity cycling event where cyclists donate and then get to cycle around the island ?
Does this mean WP people cannot take part even in their own personal, private and confidential capacity?
I believe they can. But I may be wrong . There is no official reply or is there?
By the way, I am impressed by IBA whose thick report never kenna sue despite the thick book of comments. what does this imply?
regards
mui mui of the chua sai hum
no one check on the PAP that did they corrupt??
they always SAY TAT they R so>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
but is real…??
the PAP GOVERN loVE SINGAPORE,OR STRONG SINGAPORE DOLLAR.they had the higher salary compare to the WORLD…
I WONDER THE TEMASAK holding is belong to singapore or is privates company??
we have 4 power plant,3 IS GOING TO SELL AWAY to private company!! HOW CAN!! tat belong to us..if the private company anyhow increase the fees of electricity..do the govern do anything?? ans is NO.
becos if u sell away anything,tat thing is not yours!!! can”t control.!!
GST,ERP or other is just taking our money ??
MRT and bus fares is increasing..do GOVERNment takecare of US…
i just a 17 year old student,but i so disappoint about govern..
CAN i be loyal???
PM looks good in the ST photo ; looks better on TOC article.
Mr Brown on the ST could not be recognised intially because of helmet and weight loss. I am happy that many of you guys - blogger leaders are on the visuals
More helpings of “mee siam mai hum” please - when all fail, a common dish can help bring justice to communal use and enjoyment of public park facilities for one and all.
Political openness is indeed restricted to the selected few. How many Singaporeans are even aware of the existence of the PAP Policy Forum? Meet-the-MP sessions were regularly held in the 80s and early 90s, but they were never heard of again since the late 90s. Instead, the PAP Policy Forum has replaced the Meet-the-MP sessions and it is an exclusive forum for PAP members and its leaders. It is hardly surprising since regular re-drawing of Singapore’s electoral boundaries has resulted in alienation of PAP MPs from the electorate and vice versa.
if they disapprove, we do things other ways without the need for their approval. like our political talk-cocks at every corner coffee shops in singapore. who says no freedom of speech ?
As a trained Public Relations Consultant, I’m here to debunk the idea that the law adopts different standards for political parties.
Following PM Lee’s National Day rally speech regarding the relaxation of rules on public demonstrations (albeit within Hong Lim) and increasing liberties for freedom of speech and political videos.
PAP’s demonstration at West Coast was leadership by example at it’s finest. Theirs was the first step towards proving that political parties can and should begin to engage in public engaging activities. PM Lee has spoken, let’s move on and move forward.
Perceptually, it seems as if the PAP has gone against the law. However, this first tentative steps towards political liberalisation and greater freedoms should be applauded and not derided. It is PM Lee’s way of proving that if he can get away with it, it means that the Executive Branch has already set things in motion and that the Legislative Branch would be following suit and amending all statuettes that rendered freedom of speech/expression illegal.
It is not a u-turn, merely a revision to the original intent of the rights as promised within the constitution.
I thank you for your kind attention.
*Where can I apply to be the Press Secretary for the PM’s Office?*
[...] Loh, Deputy Editor at The Online Citizen, seems to be implying that the PAP did break a law or that the police were lax in the application of …. I think that Mr Loh should fact check before making such statements as “On what moral [...]
[...] 5th September 2008. The PAP would like to rebut the hullabaloo as posted on the alternative views forum The Online Citizen. Following PM Lee’s National Day [...]
I HAVE LOST MY RESPECT FOR THEM!!!
For many who have grown up with the PAP, I think we should thank them for the live examples of poor leadership. The examples cited will allow Singaporeans to decided during the next elections. Growing up, I have noticed the following examples.
1) Stylo milo slogans that have no substance
2) Telling people to keep upgrading, work longer, start a family, Don’t be choosy,and be gracious, last but not least .. PAP is good for you.
3)Ministers making very general statments with no roadmap on how to get there
4)Ministers making conflicting statements — recent one is the Affordable cars and ERP relationship
Its funny how the Main stream media is keeping quiet about this when theres so much buzz on the internet about this issue.
Very general question to our elite MPs, do you know who in your neighbourhood need help ? if the answer is no, what are you doing about it ?
Are you going to them or you are waiting for them to come to you ? Gracious society ………..Please don’t tell me theres so few of you and so MANY of THEM………MIght be good if you did a background study to see what caused the erosion for the people under YOUR CARE to begin with and propose options for a start with periodic reviews.
Four legs good. Two legs bad.
Four legs good. Two legs better.
- George Orwell, Animal Farm.
[...] Party - When I’m Bored: Isn’t this a sign of unfairness and double standard? - TOC: Political openness - for PAP only [Recommended] - mrbrown: Workers’ Party mass cycling at East Coast Park cannot, PAP carnival at [...]
Do not be amused too much on September 3rd, 2008 10.55 am
Obviously, you have assumed that I do not mind such double standards exist in Singapore, where meritocracy and racial harmony are touted as our plus points.
Perhaps I need to be more forthright to put it blatantly.
Why in the first place I chose to point out the kind of double standards faced by our minority members? They are more significant than the PM cycling in ECP while previously the WP was denied………….. because I am talking about the small people like my friends who each day have to face discriminations NOT from the top leaders, but from ordinary people of the majority.
How would you feel if someone moved to another seat in the bus because you happen to sit beside the person, and your skin is dark?
While you expect a high standard of fairplay from the leaders, I expect us to look deeply into ourselves to see that we are not guilty of double standards.
hai….
so sad…
only the next general electron don make me sad again…
PLEASE SINGAPOREANS….
most hate but still votes them.. awake lo.
but i want to say one thing,police is control by GOV,,GOV is control by PAP MEMber. so police will support PAP,not others..
USELESS something need to change clearly in singapore…
80) slimfold on September 6th, 2008 12.26 pm
You are dealing with something which I feel is very natural and to a certain extent very primal.
This discriminating process started the day one is born where one’s young life is revolved among people of the same kind (close family members of the same skin colour) with daily reinforcement till one reaches a stage where he / she has a chance to mix with other races where these rare encounters are still skewed in favour of the majority. This is equally true for religion practice and people of different races, not necessarily between majority and minority.
That is why it is very very important that we must NOT engage in unnecessary loose talks and comments based on race and religion. It is easy for these sensitive issues to get out of hand and escalate into something very uncontrollable.
Minority will always be minority and the mixing by both must be proactive, regular and prolonged enough (not just casual) for deeper understanding & mutual respect to be cemented. Myths, if any, by the majority on the minority has to be debunked and unlearned. I hope the majority will take more effort in helping the minority to assimilate better as the latter by virtue of being minority will definitely want to their part to fit in as best as they can.
24) PAP Is SHIT! on September 3rd, 2008 12.35 am
I think sporeans should not grumble anymore. Just always accept the status quo.
The people have spoken, remember?
We should welcome FTs, help them integrate here nicely, happily, welcome them to compete with our rice bowl, and never forget to thank them from the bottom of our hearts that without them, many companies would leave here leaving you no jobs ah.
We should welcome them to ask , encourage , urge, welcome their relatives , loved ones and friends from all over to come here and apply. They should have a degree to make things easy. Not a problem. In china and india, so many have degrees from their countries. Just apply. One by one, they come here, make themselves comfortable, then ask their friend to come also and share rentals, show them the place and integrate to society.
At the moment, they can bring as many like themselves to apply for citizenship. If all goes well, it takes very short time only. I am not sure which country is faster. Any clues?
So, singaporeans should see thousands more soon and prolly 1 hundred thousand more at least the a short future. The target was said like 6 million or so. Still plenty of room to hit the quota.
Singaporeans should not:
1. feel uneasy about their wage driven downwards due to more supply of workers to this tiny market. They should embrace and welcome if not love new citizens who come from FT and PR.
2. feel uncomfortable with new people. They should learn to eat their food, learn their culture and respect them.
singaporeans doing the services should also protect all that is living in spore. Feel proud that you are potentially sacrificing yourselves to protect everyone. Once a year only, you get called back to serve again. Feel proud. Your FT can cover your duties while you enjoy your NS.
Employers here must already be happy. They should continue to feel even more happy as now there is the S-Pass, which makes importing workers so much easier. They should enjoy the good supply of choices to pick from. Hopefully, more labor in the market lowers business costs and that means more profit for themselves. They should love FTs. Some companies give up when they cannot compete and thankfully, the good supply of labor helps them find cheaper resources. These bosses must also be thanking the FTs.
Last but not least, the sports sector should invite more new citizens if locals cannot win at internations events. Local sports people who are not as good should welcome them and ask them to be their ’see-fu’ teacher to teach them how to run, walk, cycle, swim, climb, jump, pingpong, squash, badminton, tennis better.
Last but still not least, the Opposition should embrace FT strategists to help them in areas they are weak in. To serve the people better. FTs can work behind the scenes until they become new citizens. Who says Opposition should have talent shortage problem? They need to ask themselves, are they doing enough? Have they worked hard enough? Are they doing what is possible? Frankly, I do not see them having reached their full potential.
So, I hope singapore becomes super more competitive, let it be more costly to live if that is the way to go. Lets enjoy the intense competition and remember to pay our bills and whatever taxes. The country needs funds to do national developement work like building libraries for ALL to use. You are no longer competiting with local singaporeans for rice bowl. You are competiting with anyone in the world.
Enjoy more good years. You will not regret it. The majority have not.
Hi,
I read through the comments that have been posted as well as the article. I understand how you guys feel and all that. We are all scared that one day PAP would govern under absolute power and it would turn from ’socialist’ to dictatorship. That was one of my fears too. However, I would prefer to count my blessings of staying in Singapore. The laws are strict albeit with certain amount of biasness to our current government. But in Singapore we feel safe. The uniformity of life and the and the security we enjoy is so easily taken forgranted. Have you travelled to any of the countries in South East Asia and have to make sure that your wallet is tightly zipped in your pocket and you have to clutch your bag so tightly to prevent being picked. In Singapore we can see people leaving their bags on tables in fast food restaurants to buy food. We take this small privilege for granted easily. I was talking to an American friend on his visit to Singapore. He was very impressed with the system that was in place in Singapore. The buses and the MRT system is so convenient that we almost do not need a car unless we do not want to squeeze in crowded buses or we would like our own transport. Our roads apparently are much more well maintained then America! The world’s most powerful country! America is an example of the world for freedom of speech as well as political movement. But where has that taken it? People are allowed to own guns, rifles or even semi-automatic sniper rifles. What kind of rubbish is that? You want to live in a place that you worry that a bullet will be put through your head just because you stared at a stranger? Students have to be fetched right back to their homes just because of this threat. We Singaporeans need not worry too much if our children come home at unearthly hours at 12 am. Where else in the world can we find that kind of safety. Try doing that in Indonesia? Malaysia? Russia? UK? America? Singaporeans pay one of the most cheapest indirect taxes. What I am trying to say is GST. Our GST is very low compared to UK VAT taxes. I study economics. Indirect taxes hurt the poor more then the rich. Because it taxes equally across the income stream. We might lament about our CPF. Did you know that in America, it was a choice not to fund their 401k plan? that is the equivalent of CPF in Singapore. What happened then. People who did not save a single cent while they were healthy and working were left to fend for themselves when a sudden misfortune caused them to lose their ability to work. there are much more homeless people lying in the streets in America then in Singapore. Lets not even compare to any of the other countries in Southeast Asia. The only other country in South East Asia that is wealthy enough is Brunei, which is rich in Petrol Dollars. What about the UK? They were famous for their welfare system. Providing free medical care to all people using taxpayers money. We all know that if our polyclinics are totally FOC for any treatments, we will line up first thing in the morning to get our teeth cleaned by the polyclinic dentist? Or just to go for any minor treatments of headache, cough, flu… etc. What if you are really sick? you would have to queue up with the rest of the minor cases and suffer. We also have to take into account that our polyclinics are heavily subsidised. The point I am trying to put across to everyone here is that PAP might not be all perfect. Like all other political systems in the world. But it has brought Singapore from a third world country to a first world country. We might argue that our income disparity is growing. However this is just the beginning of globalization. I do not know how PAP is going to continue to tackle that. But I do have that confidence that more measures would be put into place to ensure that all those who are left behind have a certain amount of chance to move up the income level. Just to provide a little information about me. I am a university student who had to teach tuition and do part time accounting to earn my pocket money while I am studying. My family had always been surviving on just enough for 20 years as my dad is just a bank clerk earning 3k per month to support a family of 5. I wouldn’t say I am at the bottom of the income level. But I am definitely not in the upper rungs of the society. the part of society where I am working had to strive towards given the opportunity and the help provided by the government. I have l;ofty ambitions to bring my family to a more comfortable income level. And that can only be possible because of PAP. Lets all take a step back and count our blessings before we start to criticise on the wrongdoings of PAP. Take care.
we did not say PAP is just doing all the wrong…please..
BUT do u all think tat all the daily EXPENSES INCREASING.
we R think of all singaporeans,,Do u all know the salary gap between normal singapore and the PAP member is so big…..
Do they reallY UNDERSTANDING PP needs.>>??<<
i don think so…
i just believe tat if we put a rich person to the poor citizen environment,let them stay for 6 month…then only i could believe tat theY REALLY UNDERSTAND the citizen needs…
Do they reduce their salary?? NO.BUT increase…!!
Don always say tat they made singapore V safe,,,,is WE,citizen did not have CAUSE PROBLEM to THEY,so is WE made singapore safe,,,please.
IS WE,SINGAPOREANS V MUTURE…
bUT THEY think like u guy,thought tat is their effort,so they keep increase their pay..
i have lot of uncles just with 1k or lesser,can they survive.they taking {for MP,21k} others,i don know…Do they can understand singaporeans needs…
DON DREAN LAH, U ALL JUST MAKE YOUNG GANERATION MORE DISAPPOINTED. DON CAll yrself a singaporeans,u all just can”T be bother.T.T
If i take 21k,i also WOULD SUPPORT the GOV TAT KEEP INCREASE ALL THING TAT JUST SOLVE PROBLEM..”FOR OUR OWN GOOD”
PLEASE lah,”i now REALLY know which party in for my own good future”
thank for the current GOV.
Well, we have the official reply and as predicted we have the standard reply. Somehow or rather we are getting so uncanily accurate when its comes to government replies, court verdicts and select committee decisions . That goes to show how well we understand our leaders and systems here.
@ 84) kel
The political openness for PAP only and the law skewed to favour PAP suggests a dictatorship. You mentioned US and gun ownership. Tell me when did any citizen ever suggest we do the same? Lower crime is a collective effort of the citizens and not just this govt. You should compare Singapore with Taipei, Hong Kong or Tokyo. These cities are politically more open and have a dynamic economy. And I do not recall a high crime rate in these cities.
It is people like you kel, who is the reason for this govt’s boldness. You mentioned having lofty ambition to achieve a comfortable income level. Nothing wrong with that. But what makes you think only the PAP can provide this opportunity ? You are suppose to be a uni student. They don’t encourage you to apply critical thinking or to think out of the box ? Are you so sure there are no talents better than the PAP? Just look at how the PAP solve problems. Did it occur to you , almost everything is about money ? Whilst chasing your dream to earn more, I assume you are happy to live and work in a corporation and not a country.
berak bagus,good man…
hi kel..,
u can”T compare last time.
LASt TIME is easy affort a HDB flat,at most 90k,but now,700k,,if u only have 3k,u still want a family,,,please lah,don think in this way…u R so pure.hahas.
I would like to ask the purpose of this debate is about the issue or about my critical thinking. If its the issue we are debating, keep to it and not insult the character of the person who writes his opinions.
For the HDB flat prices, 3 room flats are still available at 300k. So please do your research before posting prices of HDB. If you are talking about how much I would need to get a flat next time. I can easily say that prices would almost double current ones in 8-10 years. I would not say 3k is enough in current situation now. But I’d never say I would just rest on earning 3k per month.
The purpose of my opinion is that we should actually look at what good the PAP has done for us first before we start criticising every mistake they make.
There are certain cases that I do disagree with PAP as well. I am not that all agreeing. This is especially the laws for gays. About choosing to go through the corporate path. Lets just say, the future of governments in the world will no longer be limited to just political systems. Corporations getting bigger and bigger would have a huge slice of power in every country. Enjoy your spiting of people who had just said a few good things about PAP. Is insulting my character the best you can do to refute my opinions? Think again.
@ Kel,
It is about giving you another angle on how some of us view the situation in Singapore. From what you have posted and suggestion of some critical thinking is in no way insulting a person’s character. Go check it with your lecturer.
Read your own post again for heaven’s sake and tell me you are not making a case for the ruling party and advising netizens to count their blessings before criticizing the incumbents ? Does that mean we should not criticize this govt ?
Why don’t you tell us all the goodstuff this govt has done for the people and at the same time tell us what are the things you disagree. So far you mentioned only the laws affecting gays. There has to be more , right ?
I would appreciate your enlightenment.
Kel (#84 & #89):
I. Sense of Security
You claim that Singaporeans feel safe. Perceiving safe and actually being safe aren’t the same thing. Comparing Singapore’s and Malaysia’s crime statistics for 2006, Singapore has a higher crime rate for small crime while Malaysia has a higher crime rate for serious crates. I am not sure if this should add up to Singapore being a safer country or simply no better. Just because mass media says Singapore is safe, it doesn’t translate to Singapore actually believing safe. It is a matter of faith, isn’t it?
II. Irrelevance of Gun Ownership
It is completely irrelevant to Singapore. You should be comparing Singapore to United Kingdom if you are seeking to make comparison of Singapore to a first world country exalting the freedom of speech.
III. America’s 401k Plan vs Singapore’s CPF
America doesn’t have a state-funded 401K plan. However, employers and unions run their own 401K plan. Employer contribution remains a common element in all these 401k plans. Fund managers compete among themselves to win investment from these pension funds for their products, whether it is mutual fund, hedge fund or private equity. In Singapore, all our CPF monies are invested in GIC’s and Temesak’s investment products and we are denied market rate for our CPF monies.
IV. Indirect Taxes
While it is true that Singapore’s GST (7%) is far less than the UK’s VAT (17.5%), the poor in the UK is shielded by universal healthcare and social security pay-outs for the unemployed and the elderly. The UK also pays for training courses and is responsible for matching jobs to the unemployed. Unlike Singapore, there is a safety net mechanism in the UK. Singapore has none.
V. Healthcare is both a right and a welfare
However, universal healthcare does not mean free for all. Managing cost is impo