With the current controversy over the issue of converting Serangoon Gardens Technical School into a dormitory for foreign workers, The Online Citizen decided to pay a visit to the area. We hope to give our readers an idea of what residents there might face if the plan by the Government goes through.
Here is a short video of the area in question – Burghley Drive in Serangoon Gardens – and its neighbourhood.
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Frankly, when will everything stop? We have students who petitioned because they didn’t want a hospice next to their institution. We have residents who doesn’t want a domitory next to their estate, we have people who doesn’t want a funreal palour next to them.
So is that OK if is not in their private estate? Did anybody suggest where would be the most suitable place to house all these above. In a land scare Singapore, people must learn to give and take.
We want a funreal palour to cater to our aging population. We want a hospice so that we can let the terminally ill had a clean and peaceful place to rest for their final lap. We want the foreign workers to help us build our house and also because our local refused these job. But we are not prepared to sacrifice our space for it.
Where to find? 又要马儿好, 又要马儿不吃草
SevenEleven,
Sure, why don’t you just locate them beside Oxley Drive, Namly Ave, etc? Do you think the people there will protest?
C’mon, let’s be fair. Nobody likes to be at the brunt end of lousy implementations/policies.
Everybody needs space. And rightly so. Pray why don’t you put these dormitories in Oxley Drive? Whom do you think will call for you neck?
If these people can accept the housing dormitories, I’m sure Serangoon people will.
Kaffein
Why not pick an area in AMK ? PM Lee can show all citizens he walks the talk, Wee Siew Kim and Lee Bee Wah can help him sell the idea to AMK residents.
Split the foreign workers into 2 groups, one half to be housed in the Namly,Oxley area and the other half in AMK. The filthy rich and the peasants will be seen to be sharing their space. fair right ?
Just build one less golf course and we will have plenty of space for those facilities.
SevenEleven wrote:
“We want the foreign workers to help us build our house and also because our local refused these job. ”
Are you sure? I see a lot of people in Australia who wants to be bricklayers and builders. Even professors want to be plumbers!
Why?
Because in Singapore, the focus is on academics. So the most money goes to these pool of people. Who will want to work in manual labour?
If there is a minimal wage policy, also encouragement these jobs with decent pay, would not locals pick these up?
Kaffein
I live in that area for 33 yrs and would like to highlight a practical problem if the workers are indeed housed in that particular location.
it is on a one way street surrounded by grassland. thus there is only one in/out to the building. that area is serviced by only one feeder bus which already is damn infrequent. i can jog round the entire nehigbourhood even before feeder bus comes (about 3.5 km).
putting aside the issues of prejudice etc. having that high volumn of traffic brought about by the dorm will cause a lot of problems for the residents and workers in the morning. both workers and residents will end up frustrated.
it is a pblm the govt has to solve because it involves the way the location is situated and how the roads leading in and out of the area is built. because of the extremely infrequent feeder bus, it would also mean that the serangoon area would get its bus stops clogged up because the buses just cannot clear the human traffic. putting aside all the issues of prejudice and bias, it is really impractical to house them there. this is something that LTA and SBS and SLA to solve before they even pitch it to the people.
The govt build large dormitories at places like Holland Road, Dalvey Road, Nassim Road, Bt Timah, Oxley Rise, etc. first. Then S’poreans will see how “accommodative’ our mini-stars and MIW MPs are!!!
It’s kind of strange that Turf City’s application to be the bus hub for buses going to Malaysia was rejected, yet something like this is considered. Perhaps Bukit timah district has too many rich people and expats … … ?
A self-contained dormitory for foreign workers is in fact a ghetto. On a lighter note, is there a possibility of relocating the entrance in such a way that it would appease the local residents?
MND should not give in to pressure exerted by Serangoon Garden residents. Should workers hostel be relocated somewhere else, there will be an endless cycle of people creating trouble petitioning their MPs to express their unhappiness.
Suppose MND finds an alternative spot in XYZ neighborhood and MND stands their ground in the face of further protests in XYZ. The residents of XYZ will take that to mean that they are not being treated equally as the people of Serangoon Gardens.
As a matter of principle and fairness, MND must stand firm in its decision. Anything less would result in the undermining of the pragmatic and meritocratic system this country has taken years to build.
Reduce overdependency on manual foreign labor.
Introduce a minimum wage policy with greater automation. Look at the Australia model for some inspiration.
Hello. I don’t think a minimem wage policy will work in Singapore. The country is simply too small to accomodate that, as compared to countries like Australia and USA. Put it this way, if employers were to madate minimum wage, they would have to also increase their net profit too. Which will in turn increase the overall cost of everything. In the end, consumers (average joes like you and me) will be the hardest hit. Also, employers will also start employing more illegal workers, creating more social problems.
Unlike Singapore, large western countries have huge amount of resources to fall on. Here in the US were I currently reside, even with minimum wage, illegal immigrants is a huge problem.
My suggestion for the govt, is to maintain a better relationship with our immediate neighbors, Malaysia and Indonesia. Have some kind of free trade agreement for their citizens to work in Singapore, we would surely minimize the labor issues and drastically improve the illegal workers problem. Also, it’ helps improve diplomatic ties with them.
Bottomline is, rather than employing foreign workers from China and Banladesh, I’d rather have workers closer to our own heritage and culture.
1) SevenEleven on September 6th, 2008 11.15 am Frankly, when will everything stop? We have students who petitioned because they didn’t want a hospice next to their institution. We have residents who doesn’t want a domitory next to their estate, we have people who doesn’t want a funreal palour next to them.
So is that ……
I support SevenEleven if he proposes that the hospice, funeral parlour, foreign worker dormitories be built near his hse. Bet he will be hospitable to the visitors at these places.
I tried to be kind to the foreign workers when they were doing cable work near my place. Seeing them eat near the bushes opp my hse under warm day, I offered them ice cubes, with water as well as plastic cups. Guess what on the following day? All the cups were thrown into the drain. They have their habits, and not difficult to change. So better to let them stay in places near where their sympathisers are, or where Mr. Mah and his staff are……
sorry..typo error…shd be read as….’difficult to change’.
URA ruling is that workers’ dormitory should be at list 500m from the fence to the nearest residential area. What’s this? Government out to cash in on housing foreign workers?
Any concentration of foreigner in any place on earth is sure to provoke an outcry as it will instill a sense of insecurity to the resident there. I had experienced this in many countries.So before we brand them into racist,prejudiced and discriminating individual,let us be rational and do not just brushed them off . This estate is a quiet and serene area where people work and play in the mist of safety and few crimes were committed.Any time of the day and night,even in the early morning,couples and the elders can be seen jogging and exercising.Roads in and out SG and public transport are limited too. Please try to understand the localised situation and condition. The influx of 1500 foreigner into the area will increase the activity levels of the area which may be good for business but bad for many residents.I think we the SG residents have the right to voice our feelings and objections.
Burghley great white hopes – ang mos ok but own Asian race – No No No No!
What a shame to the so call middle class and educated ?
Long way to go man.
I agree with the Serangoon Gardens residents. People have the right to choose who their neighbors are and the problems of safety cited by the people of Serangoon Gardens is a real and serious one …so is the problem of congestion.
We should now organise petitions to evict foreign workerers in Boon Lay where they are concentrated -surely the residents there face the same dangers and inconvenience as those in Serangoon Garden.
There is a dorm in Tampines – lets have it removed as it endangers Singaporeans in that area.
Lets have aparthied in Singapore to separate our citizens from those lowly foreign workers. We can apply the same argument as the former white supreme govt of S. Africa that the black will commit crimes, and the whites don’t feel safe living near black people so they should be kept far away.
The Serangoon Garden residents have opened my eyes to a new set of values. I grew up poor in a kampung and was surrounded by people who were sometimes poorer than me. I was brought up to tolerate anybody who moved next to me and there were many “types”. One guy set up a shoe factory and housed his Malaysian workers next to my home. Althought they caused me little trouble, I realise now that I don’t have to even tolerate them and risk the unknown. I should have organised a petition to have them located far away from me. …why tolerate people who are poor, potentally dangerous in my eyes and different from myself.
I have grown up with the wrong values that one should be as tolerant as possible for a start to people who are different. The people of Serangoon Gardens are right one should choose one’s neighbor to protect property value. Some people are so low there is no need for the presumption of innocence…when they come, they will steal, rob, endanger the people around them.
Read my blog for my views on this issue : singaporemind.blogspot.com
they are everywhere – 1 million out of 4 million.
We can run, but we can’t hide.
They are our nurses, our telephone operators, call centre operators, waitresses and waiters, cleaners, construction workers, white collar office workers.
As long as the economy is growing and humming – that is what the govt wants, and it suppresses the pay and makes employers happy. And our local bottom salary will continue to be suppressed, Gan Kim Yong, it is THAT SIMPLE.
If you are not happy, send a signal at the mext GE.
Thank you.
As someone living near Sgardens, I would support the petition.
I’m not xenophobic in any sense, but if you were to tell me that you do not feel a little bit threatened when you have such a large influx of foreign workers in your small area suddenly, than you’re probably not human.
Again, I’d like to find out the reason from the government why Serangoon Gardens was chosen?
Why not Bukit Timah, Holland Road or Namly Road?
Were those places even considered, or were they rejected immediately?
The people wants to know.
DC,
I fully agree with you. If MND decides not to locate the foreign workers at Serangoon Gardens, I’ll demand that those in Boon Lay be evicted because if the reasons of safety and congestion applies to Serangoon Garden, they will also apply for the residents of Boon Lay.
“Why not Bukit Timah, Holland Road or Namly Road?”
It is time the government do something for the nation rather give bullshit and nonsense. We should sign on the petition for dormitory for foreign workers in Istana. Isn’t there a lot of space ? Why waste space in Singapore. Space in Singapore is expensive and premium. Istana has a lot of space, don’t rule that out.
Nimby, nimby…
I like how the Sunday Times contrasted our reaction to expats moving into Serangoon Gardens and the suggestion to construct a foreign workers’ dormitory there.
Hope this debate will properly get people thinking about how we view foreigners as a whole.
http://void-deck.blogspot.com/2008/09/too-much-for-sunday-morning.html
Interestingly, in today’s articles about the issue, the residents in the area were described as ‘middle-class’ (twice in 2 separate articles) – including specifically defining one expatriate living in a condo and one reporter who lives in a terrace property. All this whilst at the same time, in one of the reports, referring to the ‘million-dollar properties’ of these residents.
Middle-class huh? So that must mean a 3RM flat dweller such as myself is a member of the low-class? There may be a fine line between being humble and being ridiculous – and condo-living expats and terrace-living journalists labelling themselves middle-class (whilst displaying an appalling sense of xenophobia) is certainly way beyond the ridiculous.
Residents of SGardens are well-off, but they are no means on the same class as the people at 6th Avenue and other high-end luxury places.
I would say they’re upper-middle class so the article was pretty spot on.
Ganga, do walk around the estate and talk to the people there, you’ll be surprised what they do for a living. These guys do not own big mansions like our ministers. Its just that they managed to buy their property at a very cheap rate 20 years ago.
Hell, if my parents didn’t prefer living in a HDB, we would had gotten a unit there for the same price as my current hdb flat. (of course, HDB do have its advantages because of CPF).
I understand your point, but the argument here was not about Sernagoon Gardens per se but the selective lumping of demographics. By placing 1% of the population as low-income, 1% of the population as high-income, and the rest of the 98% of the population as ‘middle-class’, a great number of things can be glossed over and a lot of important, pressing issues can be conveniently swept under/away.
And to specifically address the issue regarding the people at Serangoon Gardens, if they were down-to-earth as asserted, would they not just grin-and-bear-it like fellow Singaporeans in Boon Lay and Khaki Bukit have? Why do they protest so vehemently? And what makes them think they have a stronger case than the aforementioned locales?
True or false, It does not take one long to attribute the perception of upper-class among these residents as the answer to these questions. In addition, even if the residents were to be unemployed, they are without doubt asset-rich and therefore capable of having an upper-class attutude notwithstanding their true financial status and/or actual employment/education level.
**My comments are meant for debate and I urge everyone not to take it personally or out of context, thank you.**
erratum
attutude = attitude
Wonder what residents’ reaction would be if the foreign construction workers were whites ?
It is not too far fetched that the said scenario may happen in say another 5 years as the power shift to Asia. Policy makers – do take note in your future review.
Why don’t they locate the dormitory in an industrial estate? That way, there will be minimal impact on local residents.
Then lease the school out to an international school looking for a site. Many international schools are running out of space and are looking for new sites.
Well, I have lived my entirely life as a minority in Singapore. Hahaha, glad someone mentioned Boon Lay. Ok, surprisingly, I have NOT personally had any nasty incidents with regards to foreign workers. But it definitely FEELS weird walking around Jurong Point and Boon Lay Interchange and not seeing that many Singaporean faces and even less from my own Malay community. But its just a feeling. I used to have nothing against foreigners but all that changed when I found out that fees in NUS and NTU for foreign students weren’t much higher than that for locals, AND as long as there is NS and 36-year olds like me have to be inconvenienced with reservist duties, I am not too happy when I see foreigners strutting around as if Singapore owes them a living. I know I am not being rational, so what.
Honestly, I do not pity the Serangoon residents, it was their choice in the last GE to vote for the hnourable George Yeo and company. They now have to live with their actions. Too bad, life sucks.
From what I hear from some of the electorate counters during the last GE,
Serangoon North and Serangoon Gardens voted overwhelmingly for WP. If these two areas were to be classified as its own SMC, they would be opposition-held.
I’ve been a resident of Serangoon Gardens since I was born. In fact, I live pretty close to Serangoon Gardens Techincal School and I am not against the idea of building a dorm there for foreign workers.
Look, Serangoon Gardens can cater to the influx of foreign workers. It has hawker centres, barbers, etc. Security? There’s a neighbourhood police post near the technical school (about 700m away I should think). Of course, I do agree that the roads are narrow but I’m sure the government can work around that.
By assuming that security will be threatened in the area, we are stereotyping the foreign workers. But have they ever harmed you in any way? Just because they are different from us and have different habits doesn’t mean we should shun them and refuse them a place to live.
Number 33…yes I hope they stay next to u…and i hope when something happens to u , your family, your property…etc no one will hear your bloodly scream! WAKE UP YOURSELF!
Number 34 – I don’t know what’s it with people like you.
I was merely offering my point of view – there is no need to take it personal. There is no need to bring in ‘family’ or ‘property’. That’s just plain childish.
Number 36 – There is no use arguing with you because you throw baseless insults at me.
Learn how to make appropriate comments or don’t comment at all.
Dear ItlsTimeToWakeUp, what you think would happen if we put 3 young girls in a company with 1500 local men for a year(I’m not quoting the foreign workers here, but locals)? Can you guarantee nothing would happened to them? If you really stayed nearby, you would have known, there is an all girls primary school along the same road. If you passed by the Dormitory at Kaki Bukit, do a count on the bicycles they have, chained outside the dormitory. Where would you suggest them to park their bikes in this case? Ask them, why they chose to picnic along the roadside, rather than eating within the dormitory compound. Will you chase them away if they find yr doorstep a lovely spot to have dinner every evening(since u live pretty close to SGT)? It wouldn’t be nice for you to chase people away from yr house isn’t it? These are definitely causes for concern especially to those living directly at the doorstep of the proposed dormitory. Pls don’t take it personally, I am not targeting at you. These are just part of my views…..
if you take a look at Boon Lay one year ago and now, the difference is tremendous, you just don’t feel that safe anymore. when my girlfriend walks past the area, she always feels and sees that many eyes are on her, freaks her out.
did anyone even talk about Jalan Kayu? its not even a good place for roti prata now. too many workers loitering around and some of them getting drunk. even though I have nothing against the workers, it just doesn’t feel the same anymore.
I hope Serangoon Gardens wont become like the above 2 places, its a place i patronise often too, a lot of good food at the market besides the police post. BTW, the police post is not operational 24 hrs a day.
I dont quite believe this plan about having a FOREIGN WORKER DORMITORY in Serangoon Gardens area. Our Ministers in charge are supposed to be brilliant leaders from Division One class and always portrayed to be the best Singapore gahmen can find. The properties in that area are being upgraded and selling at $800 per sq.ft or more.This proposal is devoid of all logic. I am absolutely sure that there are other areas in Singapore to implement this Foreign Workers Township. I hope this is not a red herring or some kind of wayang by the gahmen, to show that they are allowing citizens to give feedback. There are more pressing issues. Please use the time to address issues face by needy citizens.
Serangoon Gardens has always been a lovely place. It used to resemble a small Perth like living enviroment.
Jalan Kayu was a roti prata paradise.
Boon Lay reminded me of my NS days – running the streets and eating out at the affordable hawker centres was fun.
I can really empathise with the reported views of the Serangoon Garden residents.
The administrators need to understand beyond pure physical planning – have sociologists, historians and liberal arts people along side to provide the human and social aspects.
It is not all about not wanting foreign construction workers in Serangoon Gardens from residents’ views or not wanting maids in Sentosa over the week ends, etc….
It is about time to take stock of the relentless pursuit of economic growth which also attract the relentless rising cost of living and which will eventually change the character of Jalan Kayu, Boon Lay and Serangoon Gardens ?, and which also have both parents working to make ends meet…. and so on.
First world – yes perhaps soon but at what cost ? at what divide between people and Government ? losing our children overseas ? worst of all – fading the wonderful memories of the late 1960s, 1970s, 1980s and early 1990s, when Singapore meant much more to citizens than nowadays…….
Do something before it is changed and gone forever…………….
Thank you.
I’m sure nobody will protest if the land were to be occupied by the “white” foreigners (ang moh). I have neighbour from downunder. Their behaviour and attitude are as “rough”. They pay no respect and understanding to our asian values. They criticise loudly about our Singapore system and people. And they are not very highly educated either. Even among the maids, they start to compare and comment the ang mohs give them better salary and off days etc. Let ‘s face it, whatever kind of foreigner u have, u are face with different problems. In conclusion, it doesn’t matter whether u are black or white,, is the inner self that counts
“41) nobody on September 8th, 2008 9.12 am
Their behaviour and attitude are as “rough”. They pay no respect and understanding to our asian values. They criticise loudly about our Singapore system and people. And they are not very highly educated either. Even among the maids, they start to compare and comment the ang mohs give them better salary and off days etc. Let ’s face it, whatever kind of foreigner u have, u are face with different problems”
You should tell that to our G people. Hey those people u r referring have a special title called “Foreign Talents”. So don’t play play.
There are alot of old school buildings which are not utilise in Singapore. The one at Serangoon Garden is just one of them. If this place is not chosen, the authorities would choose somewhere else & then the residents over there would also start protesting.
“43) loop on September 8th, 2008 11.08 am
If this place is not chosen, the authorities would choose somewhere else & then the residents over there would also start protesting.”
Of course, residents affected will surely complain lah, very natural and human to do that.
Imagine, if one is nearby your place. You would be a saint if it does not trigger any feeling from you. Just because the authorities get to choose, that does not mean it is it is a good choice.
That’s why you call these town planners – pea brains or cow sensed idiots. I don’t think they have really walk the school grounds or the estate yet. Mind you the school compound can be easily connected into AMK Ave 10 and Tai Hwan Residences. Think beyond that – it’s not only residents in Serangoon Gardens will be affected or threatened ( as my fellow neighbours and residents have spoken very strongly about it) but the spillover into these other boundaries as well.
In the first place there never ever should have even been a preliminary talk or thought about it.
isn’t it so unlike our 1st class government ? opening the floodgate for all…and yet no masterplan in place to house them? simply unbelievable! Very soon…we will be asked to house them as well!
No.46–ya, forced quartering of foreigners within our houses, just like in Boston in 1774-1775. Only difference is in that case, the people declared their independence. In ours, the stupefied majority will grimace and keep their peace.
I agree that the many problems caused by a foreign worker dormitory will have many side-effects on the environment of Serangoon Gardens. I used to work at Kim Chuan, and yes, there were hundreds of bikes and half-bikes parked outside the dorm. The inside was run-down to the core, the workers looked out with fire in their eyes, and it was frightening to walk by, as a seventeen ear old, with a full wallet and arms not suited for fighting nor legs for running. That was an industrial park. Transposing that image to Serangoon Gardens is just unimaginable.
I echo on Ganga’s sentiments!
DC, properties prices there are easily $900K-$1.3 Million and above for the decent terrace, let alone the newer projects. Even if you bought a old run down one, its still freehold and cost you minimum $750K-$900K. U probably still need factor in the renovation cost to tear down the buildling and rebuilt it. Will HDB cost similarly?
Well, 20 years ago prices are different too. But Its relative too isnt it? When a landed 20 years ago equates maybe an HDB current, HDB 20 years ago will be dirt cheap too!
I share the same sentiments as GANGA: -
“And to specifically address the issue regarding the people at Serangoon Gardens, if they were down-to-earth as asserted, would they not just grin-and-bear-it like fellow Singaporeans in Boon Lay and Khaki Bukit have? Why do they protest so vehemently? And what makes them think they have a stronger case than the aforementioned locales?
True or false, It does not take one long to attribute the perception of upper-class among these residents as the answer to these questions. In addition, even if the residents were to be unemployed, they are without doubt asset-rich and therefore capable of having an upper-class attutude not withstanding their true financial status and/or actual employment/education level.”
Sad but its true, there are still a line drawn between them.
Maybe at $900K-$1.3 Million you cant even get a terrace there these days.
The condo at The Chuan, for a 2 room apt already cost $1-$1.2 Million.
Probably for a freehold terrace in that area, we are looking at MINIMUM $1.5-$1.7 million at least? Of course, Semi-D and Bungalows will be much higher.