
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The stork is still not quite convinced</title>
	<atom:link href="http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/09/the-stork-is-still-not-quite-convinced/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/09/the-stork-is-still-not-quite-convinced/</link>
	<description>a community of Singaporeans</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 04:08:47 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/09/the-stork-is-still-not-quite-convinced/comment-page-1/#comment-109098</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:15:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1717#comment-109098</guid>
		<description>The cost of living is one of the main consideration for many Sinkaporean when deciding whether to start a family and having one child, the next consideration is when to have a second. I am speaking from my own experience. We had been married for many years and age was becoming an issue when one start planning to start a family. Living space and child care were also a major factor. Not every family is lucky enough to have parents  who is happy to look after their grand children. In my case, both my parent passed away before we even consider to start a family. The obvious solution was for us to set a side a sum of money each month for over a number of years before we start a family. I am please to say, my children are all grown up now and completed their university education.In modern Sinkapore, the constant rising cost of living is making life immeasurably more difficult for young family to start a family. Gahment financial assistance obviously is welcomed but other facilities e.g. nursery, day care centres should be available at affortable prices for all Singaporean family and not just restricted to those who are on high income. If the gahment truly want sinkapoerean to increase the local birth rate they had to do more and it is not a bad idea to throw open a debate on the subject to hear what Singaporean think .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The cost of living is one of the main consideration for many Sinkaporean when deciding whether to start a family and having one child, the next consideration is when to have a second. I am speaking from my own experience. We had been married for many years and age was becoming an issue when one start planning to start a family. Living space and child care were also a major factor. Not every family is lucky enough to have parents  who is happy to look after their grand children. In my case, both my parent passed away before we even consider to start a family. The obvious solution was for us to set a side a sum of money each month for over a number of years before we start a family. I am please to say, my children are all grown up now and completed their university education.In modern Sinkapore, the constant rising cost of living is making life immeasurably more difficult for young family to start a family. Gahment financial assistance obviously is welcomed but other facilities e.g. nursery, day care centres should be available at affortable prices for all Singaporean family and not just restricted to those who are on high income. If the gahment truly want sinkapoerean to increase the local birth rate they had to do more and it is not a bad idea to throw open a debate on the subject to hear what Singaporean think .</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Donaldson Tan</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/09/the-stork-is-still-not-quite-convinced/comment-page-1/#comment-22939</link>
		<dc:creator>Donaldson Tan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 16:10:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1717#comment-22939</guid>
		<description>Tying incentives to productivity potential is plainly unethical. A simple policy for all babies regardless of background and defects is one I would support vehemently because for a policy to work, it must not only be easy to understand, but also easy to commnicate across to the public among all social classes. A pro-baby policy should be one that addresses economic and social condition that encourage people to have babies and not use a stick-and-carrot scheme to coerce people who unintentionally get pregant to keep the baby.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tying incentives to productivity potential is plainly unethical. A simple policy for all babies regardless of background and defects is one I would support vehemently because for a policy to work, it must not only be easy to understand, but also easy to commnicate across to the public among all social classes. A pro-baby policy should be one that addresses economic and social condition that encourage people to have babies and not use a stick-and-carrot scheme to coerce people who unintentionally get pregant to keep the baby.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ravi Philemon</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/09/the-stork-is-still-not-quite-convinced/comment-page-1/#comment-22930</link>
		<dc:creator>Ravi Philemon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:50:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1717#comment-22930</guid>
		<description>Jolene, Times magazine reports that in the UK where &quot;women here are much more open about discussing forms of contraception&quot; and have &quot;Better sex education and less prudish attitudes to sex&quot; and &quot;know the score and can take control of your body much more effectively.&quot; the number of abortions in England and Wales in 2007 went up by 2.5 per cent compared to the previous year. Britain&#039;s teenage pregnancy rate is the highest in western Europe.  Ann Furedi, the chief executive of the charity British Pregnancy Advisory Service, says, “Women try hard to avoid becoming pregnant when they don’t want to become a mother, or aren’t able to bring up a child, but unintended pregnancy still remains a significant public health problem...sometimes couples can fail to use contraception properly. Women who are then faced with a difficult decision about a pregnancy need the option of accessible abortion care available to them as early as possible - and as late as necessary. &quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jolene, Times magazine reports that in the UK where &#8220;women here are much more open about discussing forms of contraception&#8221; and have &#8220;Better sex education and less prudish attitudes to sex&#8221; and &#8220;know the score and can take control of your body much more effectively.&#8221; the number of abortions in England and Wales in 2007 went up by 2.5 per cent compared to the previous year. Britain&#8217;s teenage pregnancy rate is the highest in western Europe.  Ann Furedi, the chief executive of the charity British Pregnancy Advisory Service, says, “Women try hard to avoid becoming pregnant when they don’t want to become a mother, or aren’t able to bring up a child, but unintended pregnancy still remains a significant public health problem&#8230;sometimes couples can fail to use contraception properly. Women who are then faced with a difficult decision about a pregnancy need the option of accessible abortion care available to them as early as possible &#8211; and as late as necessary. &#8220;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dodo</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/09/the-stork-is-still-not-quite-convinced/comment-page-1/#comment-22875</link>
		<dc:creator>dodo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 03:39:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1717#comment-22875</guid>
		<description>you only tackle the symptoms of a problem when you pay to encourage people to have more babies. you cannot solve the situation and the problem until you find the root cause of declining births. stupid people always advocate &quot;pay and pay&quot; because it is popular to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you only tackle the symptoms of a problem when you pay to encourage people to have more babies. you cannot solve the situation and the problem until you find the root cause of declining births. stupid people always advocate &#8220;pay and pay&#8221; because it is popular to do so.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jolene</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/09/the-stork-is-still-not-quite-convinced/comment-page-1/#comment-22852</link>
		<dc:creator>Jolene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 17:53:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1717#comment-22852</guid>
		<description>Ravi:

Most people have sex in a bedroom. If you expect to be sexually active you can keep condoms there, or carry one in your wallet. A woman who expects to be sexually active can take the pill or carry a diaphragm in her handbag. And there&#039;s also emergency contraception which is a pill with something like 85% chance of preventing an unwanted pregnancy if taken within 72 hours of sex (this can be used where condoms break for instance).

With appropriate sex education we can encourage a culture where people think frankly and fearlessly about their own sexuality - and therefore will in fact be far less &quot;naive&quot; and think about sex in a far less &quot;simplistic&quot; fashion, and realise that they need to take precautions. I live in the UK and women here are much more open about discussing forms of contraception. Better sex education and less prudish attitudes to sex means you know the score and can take control of your body much more effectively.

Jolene</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ravi:</p>
<p>Most people have sex in a bedroom. If you expect to be sexually active you can keep condoms there, or carry one in your wallet. A woman who expects to be sexually active can take the pill or carry a diaphragm in her handbag. And there&#8217;s also emergency contraception which is a pill with something like 85% chance of preventing an unwanted pregnancy if taken within 72 hours of sex (this can be used where condoms break for instance).</p>
<p>With appropriate sex education we can encourage a culture where people think frankly and fearlessly about their own sexuality &#8211; and therefore will in fact be far less &#8220;naive&#8221; and think about sex in a far less &#8220;simplistic&#8221; fashion, and realise that they need to take precautions. I live in the UK and women here are much more open about discussing forms of contraception. Better sex education and less prudish attitudes to sex means you know the score and can take control of your body much more effectively.</p>
<p>Jolene</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: patriot</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/09/the-stork-is-still-not-quite-convinced/comment-page-1/#comment-22827</link>
		<dc:creator>patriot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 10:43:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1717#comment-22827</guid>
		<description>&quot;If the govt has imported the population to boost the economy, what does this mean for every Singaporean ?&quot;

Dear money comes first; do kindly allow me to attempt some opinions, many of which are clues from You and this blog itself.

Answers: Money comes first, power comes second and citizens come thereafter but behind third which is fame(or infamy ?)  Names of of leaders are inscribed everywhere in Community Clubs, Tertiary institutions and Industrial Buildings etc, etc.

Conscience is dead in SIN and even kids know  how to say &#039;You die, your business&#039;  with full understanding of its&#039; meaning.

I believe the Singapore Constitution does not stipulate that Elected Leaders must look after their citizens. As such they are not obligated to such duty nor are they failing or neglecting their duties. They are empowered to lord over us though.

In any case, Singaporeans themselves are not free from all blames too, the Mandate of our Leadership comes from the Citizens. No?

Yours Faithfully: patriot

patriot</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If the govt has imported the population to boost the economy, what does this mean for every Singaporean ?&#8221;</p>
<p>Dear money comes first; do kindly allow me to attempt some opinions, many of which are clues from You and this blog itself.</p>
<p>Answers: Money comes first, power comes second and citizens come thereafter but behind third which is fame(or infamy ?)  Names of of leaders are inscribed everywhere in Community Clubs, Tertiary institutions and Industrial Buildings etc, etc.</p>
<p>Conscience is dead in SIN and even kids know  how to say &#8216;You die, your business&#8217;  with full understanding of its&#8217; meaning.</p>
<p>I believe the Singapore Constitution does not stipulate that Elected Leaders must look after their citizens. As such they are not obligated to such duty nor are they failing or neglecting their duties. They are empowered to lord over us though.</p>
<p>In any case, Singaporeans themselves are not free from all blames too, the Mandate of our Leadership comes from the Citizens. No?</p>
<p>Yours Faithfully: patriot</p>
<p>patriot</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: money comes first</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/09/the-stork-is-still-not-quite-convinced/comment-page-1/#comment-22815</link>
		<dc:creator>money comes first</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 08:29:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1717#comment-22815</guid>
		<description>It all comes down to you being a economic digit in Singapore

its Singapore Inc, this is the reason why we all must exercise our vote in the right manner and do away with scare mongering tatics that surface in the MSM from time to time.

Whats there to lose ? Look at the current situtation is it getting any better ?

If the govt has imported the population to boost the economy, what does this mean for every Singaporean ? I am very keen to know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It all comes down to you being a economic digit in Singapore</p>
<p>its Singapore Inc, this is the reason why we all must exercise our vote in the right manner and do away with scare mongering tatics that surface in the MSM from time to time.</p>
<p>Whats there to lose ? Look at the current situtation is it getting any better ?</p>
<p>If the govt has imported the population to boost the economy, what does this mean for every Singaporean ? I am very keen to know.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: family man</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/09/the-stork-is-still-not-quite-convinced/comment-page-1/#comment-22786</link>
		<dc:creator>family man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:45:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1717#comment-22786</guid>
		<description>I find it strange that the govt will subsidise fertility treatment but not give free medical treatment to babies born prematurely. Something is not right here. We should give treatments to ALL Singaporean babies because they are our assets. Then we will have a better quality of life for the parents as well. A nation of care givers to all babies. (forget about targetted approach and vouchers - where many low middle class citizens will not qualify). If this comes true, then we know the govt is sincere in wanting a bigger population, not just &#039;healthy&#039; babies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it strange that the govt will subsidise fertility treatment but not give free medical treatment to babies born prematurely. Something is not right here. We should give treatments to ALL Singaporean babies because they are our assets. Then we will have a better quality of life for the parents as well. A nation of care givers to all babies. (forget about targetted approach and vouchers &#8211; where many low middle class citizens will not qualify). If this comes true, then we know the govt is sincere in wanting a bigger population, not just &#8216;healthy&#8217; babies.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: govt actions</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/09/the-stork-is-still-not-quite-convinced/comment-page-1/#comment-22785</link>
		<dc:creator>govt actions</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1717#comment-22785</guid>
		<description>let us be very clear. the govt is selective in its implementation of baby policy. Theirs is still very economy based and &#039;targeted assistance&#039;. 

if you are a SAHM, you do not get anything.
If you are jobless and have a 3rd child, you do not get any maternity benefits at all, and the father does not get any maid levy. All these point towards the women as an economic digit, where you MUST be producing a salary and THEN you get maternity benefits.

(and that is another reason why our abused maid syndrome comes about from all these, pointedly discouraging SAHM as caregivers!)

I was happy when the govt announced that all babies must be covered with insurance when they are born. But I was aborred to read that if the babies are born with congenital disease, eg hole in the heart, they are not covered.

Again, economic sense comes in. But hey, you as a govt cannot have your cake and eat it! You cannot be going around saying c&#039;mon, have a baby, but if your baby is diseased, you are all alone. Regardless of race language or religion or disability, you are a child of this universe, this country.

Why must a child born with a diease have a poorer quality of life?

It brings to mind the paralympics hero. Laurentia, with her spastic illness, would our government be able to encourage her to flourish in singapore? Why did she have to go to UK for training? How much did it cost their parents?

Pathlight school for autism. How long is the queue? How much do the kids have to pay to get in? Why are they not under MOE and get free education like every other able bodied child.

You are the child of the universe (Singapore). No less than the trees and the stars, you have the right to be here.  (Les crane desiderata)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>let us be very clear. the govt is selective in its implementation of baby policy. Theirs is still very economy based and &#8216;targeted assistance&#8217;. </p>
<p>if you are a SAHM, you do not get anything.<br />
If you are jobless and have a 3rd child, you do not get any maternity benefits at all, and the father does not get any maid levy. All these point towards the women as an economic digit, where you MUST be producing a salary and THEN you get maternity benefits.</p>
<p>(and that is another reason why our abused maid syndrome comes about from all these, pointedly discouraging SAHM as caregivers!)</p>
<p>I was happy when the govt announced that all babies must be covered with insurance when they are born. But I was aborred to read that if the babies are born with congenital disease, eg hole in the heart, they are not covered.</p>
<p>Again, economic sense comes in. But hey, you as a govt cannot have your cake and eat it! You cannot be going around saying c&#8217;mon, have a baby, but if your baby is diseased, you are all alone. Regardless of race language or religion or disability, you are a child of this universe, this country.</p>
<p>Why must a child born with a diease have a poorer quality of life?</p>
<p>It brings to mind the paralympics hero. Laurentia, with her spastic illness, would our government be able to encourage her to flourish in singapore? Why did she have to go to UK for training? How much did it cost their parents?</p>
<p>Pathlight school for autism. How long is the queue? How much do the kids have to pay to get in? Why are they not under MOE and get free education like every other able bodied child.</p>
<p>You are the child of the universe (Singapore). No less than the trees and the stars, you have the right to be here.  (Les crane desiderata)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: kf</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/09/the-stork-is-still-not-quite-convinced/comment-page-1/#comment-22771</link>
		<dc:creator>kf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 14:44:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1717#comment-22771</guid>
		<description>I am only thinking from the view of single/ widowed/ divorced/ sahm mothers with children under their care. 
Actually I do not understand why children from &#039;standard&#039; families get incentives, and those from families I listed above don&#039;t get the same treatment (as if the children are at fault). 
Even if TFR is not a key issue (which is not the case), how does this stack up against the portion of our pledge which says, &#039;..... regardless of race, language or religion, to build a demoncratic society, based on justice and EQUALITY......&#039;. ?
I get the impression the essence of the pledge has not been followed through, unless someone can offer me insights that reconcile this contradiction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am only thinking from the view of single/ widowed/ divorced/ sahm mothers with children under their care.<br />
Actually I do not understand why children from &#8217;standard&#8217; families get incentives, and those from families I listed above don&#8217;t get the same treatment (as if the children are at fault).<br />
Even if TFR is not a key issue (which is not the case), how does this stack up against the portion of our pledge which says, &#8216;&#8230;.. regardless of race, language or religion, to build a demoncratic society, based on justice and EQUALITY&#8230;&#8230;&#8217;. ?<br />
I get the impression the essence of the pledge has not been followed through, unless someone can offer me insights that reconcile this contradiction.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Han</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/09/the-stork-is-still-not-quite-convinced/comment-page-1/#comment-22762</link>
		<dc:creator>Han</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 06:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1717#comment-22762</guid>
		<description>correction: &quot;last night&quot; substitute with &quot;mentioned above&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>correction: &#8220;last night&#8221; substitute with &#8220;mentioned above&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Han</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/09/the-stork-is-still-not-quite-convinced/comment-page-1/#comment-22760</link>
		<dc:creator>Han</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 06:23:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1717#comment-22760</guid>
		<description>[A 2003 research paper of Women’s Health &amp; Action Research Centre says, “In many countries, more than 50% of the population has unprotected penetrative sex before the age of 16, without contemplating the consequences and without accurate information or contraceptive protection.”]

And of course we know who we can credit with the excellent accomplishment last night: religious conservatives like Gerald and FotF who don&#039;t want teenagers to be taught full and accurate scientific information on contraception and birth control.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[A 2003 research paper of Women’s Health &amp; Action Research Centre says, “In many countries, more than 50% of the population has unprotected penetrative sex before the age of 16, without contemplating the consequences and without accurate information or contraceptive protection.”]</p>
<p>And of course we know who we can credit with the excellent accomplishment last night: religious conservatives like Gerald and FotF who don&#8217;t want teenagers to be taught full and accurate scientific information on contraception and birth control.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ravi Philemon</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/09/the-stork-is-still-not-quite-convinced/comment-page-1/#comment-22751</link>
		<dc:creator>Ravi Philemon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 03:23:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1717#comment-22751</guid>
		<description>Jolene @ #21 says, &quot;Why would anyone, thinking about it sensibly, use abortion as a method of contraception, rather than a condom, a pill, or a diaphragm? While most abortions, performed in the appropriate clinical setting, go smoothly, there are still higher medical risk, greater hassle and increased cost involved in terminating a pregnancy compared to simply using a preventative method. This strongly suggests that most people, provided with appropriate information about their choices, would use a preventative method to begin with.&quot;

This is a simplistic and naive argument.  Nobody plans when to have sex.  Not even married couples. Most times, it just happens and it is too late to look for contraceptives.  A 2003 research paper of Women&#039;s Health &amp; Action Research Centre says, &quot;In many countries, more than 50% of the population has unprotected penetrative sex before the age of 16, without contemplating the consequences and without accurate information or contraceptive protection.&quot; So, when unwanted pregnancies occur, abortion is a &#039;natural&#039; choice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jolene @ #21 says, &#8220;Why would anyone, thinking about it sensibly, use abortion as a method of contraception, rather than a condom, a pill, or a diaphragm? While most abortions, performed in the appropriate clinical setting, go smoothly, there are still higher medical risk, greater hassle and increased cost involved in terminating a pregnancy compared to simply using a preventative method. This strongly suggests that most people, provided with appropriate information about their choices, would use a preventative method to begin with.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is a simplistic and naive argument.  Nobody plans when to have sex.  Not even married couples. Most times, it just happens and it is too late to look for contraceptives.  A 2003 research paper of Women&#8217;s Health &amp; Action Research Centre says, &#8220;In many countries, more than 50% of the population has unprotected penetrative sex before the age of 16, without contemplating the consequences and without accurate information or contraceptive protection.&#8221; So, when unwanted pregnancies occur, abortion is a &#8216;natural&#8217; choice.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Major Disconnect</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/09/the-stork-is-still-not-quite-convinced/comment-page-1/#comment-22731</link>
		<dc:creator>Major Disconnect</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 21:37:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1717#comment-22731</guid>
		<description>We have a major disconnect between the govt and the people on the ground.

I think we have the emperors new clothes syndrome, where we seem to turn a blind eye towards the obvious. Singapore has poor family friendly policies.

There isn&#039;t a need to look for a needle in a haystack, just take a look at our declining birth rate, and you can tell why humans in Singapore don&#039;t want to have children.

Now heres the solution, 

1) Import the population to save the economy ? 

2) Create family friendly policies (not by throwing money on the  left, and collecting on the right ! ) 

3) Implement minimum wage, Education for FREE, provide welfare and medical to the needy.... I can never understand why EDUCATION cost so much in dollars...

4) Last but not least, NS for all men who are staying in Singapore for more than 2 years, This is good for the nations defence just like the FT&#039;s contribute to this economy


Sorry I know this is out of context, but does AVA screen everything that is placed on our shelves for consumption and sale??  or they wait for someone else to scream &quot;bloody murder&quot; before they have a total recall and issue warning to people who are selling these items  ? 

Always thought we had world class this and that......... proactive versus reactive ?

Maybe we need  to setup ANOTHER commitee, maybe call it the SING-ALONG-COMMITEE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have a major disconnect between the govt and the people on the ground.</p>
<p>I think we have the emperors new clothes syndrome, where we seem to turn a blind eye towards the obvious. Singapore has poor family friendly policies.</p>
<p>There isn&#8217;t a need to look for a needle in a haystack, just take a look at our declining birth rate, and you can tell why humans in Singapore don&#8217;t want to have children.</p>
<p>Now heres the solution, </p>
<p>1) Import the population to save the economy ? </p>
<p>2) Create family friendly policies (not by throwing money on the  left, and collecting on the right ! ) </p>
<p>3) Implement minimum wage, Education for FREE, provide welfare and medical to the needy&#8230;. I can never understand why EDUCATION cost so much in dollars&#8230;</p>
<p>4) Last but not least, NS for all men who are staying in Singapore for more than 2 years, This is good for the nations defence just like the FT&#8217;s contribute to this economy</p>
<p>Sorry I know this is out of context, but does AVA screen everything that is placed on our shelves for consumption and sale??  or they wait for someone else to scream &#8220;bloody murder&#8221; before they have a total recall and issue warning to people who are selling these items  ? </p>
<p>Always thought we had world class this and that&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; proactive versus reactive ?</p>
<p>Maybe we need  to setup ANOTHER commitee, maybe call it the SING-ALONG-COMMITEE</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: zj</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/09/the-stork-is-still-not-quite-convinced/comment-page-1/#comment-22727</link>
		<dc:creator>zj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 17:20:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1717#comment-22727</guid>
		<description>You (Gerald) wrote:
&quot;The ends don’t justify the means. We don’t kill a baby just because we think the parents won’t be good parents. This is a flawed, utilitarian approach that disrespects the intrinsic worth of life. Who are we to predict what kind of life the child will live? And even if it isn’t the happiest of lives (what defines happiness?), is that reason to end it before it begins?

&#039;we&#039; refers to who? u or me or someone else?&quot;  tis is not abt &#039;we&#039; .
its abt the parents (n only them) who will decide whether to abort based on their situations. no one shld teaches them what to do (becos we r not them). its they who will b responsible for their actions (before and aft abortions) and even if they allow the child to b born, its also they who will be responsible in nurturing them. you, me or others are not gg to feed the baby for them. whether they will cultivate any so-called &#039;parental instinct&#039; (like how u naively stated) i am not sure?

what abt the life of the parents, do you regard their &#039;instrinsic worth&#039; as a human 
to make decisions for themselves as a form of self-responsibility? does enforcing responsibilities onto others make it a more &#039;intrinsic worth of life&#039;? 
 
your overall views (esp e last comment) on abortion is basically Infringing on the rights of the parents to choose.  your views doesnt justify y couples&#039; should not abort n it is only gg to make plp&#039;s lives more fearful (by external motivators) and less &#039;instrinsic worth of living&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You (Gerald) wrote:<br />
&#8220;The ends don’t justify the means. We don’t kill a baby just because we think the parents won’t be good parents. This is a flawed, utilitarian approach that disrespects the intrinsic worth of life. Who are we to predict what kind of life the child will live? And even if it isn’t the happiest of lives (what defines happiness?), is that reason to end it before it begins?</p>
<p>&#8216;we&#8217; refers to who? u or me or someone else?&#8221;  tis is not abt &#8216;we&#8217; .<br />
its abt the parents (n only them) who will decide whether to abort based on their situations. no one shld teaches them what to do (becos we r not them). its they who will b responsible for their actions (before and aft abortions) and even if they allow the child to b born, its also they who will be responsible in nurturing them. you, me or others are not gg to feed the baby for them. whether they will cultivate any so-called &#8216;parental instinct&#8217; (like how u naively stated) i am not sure?</p>
<p>what abt the life of the parents, do you regard their &#8216;instrinsic worth&#8217; as a human<br />
to make decisions for themselves as a form of self-responsibility? does enforcing responsibilities onto others make it a more &#8216;intrinsic worth of life&#8217;? </p>
<p>your overall views (esp e last comment) on abortion is basically Infringing on the rights of the parents to choose.  your views doesnt justify y couples&#8217; should not abort n it is only gg to make plp&#8217;s lives more fearful (by external motivators) and less &#8216;instrinsic worth of living&#8217;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Han</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/09/the-stork-is-still-not-quite-convinced/comment-page-1/#comment-22724</link>
		<dc:creator>Han</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 16:25:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1717#comment-22724</guid>
		<description>Gerald:

&quot;The ends don’t justify the means. We don’t kill a baby just because we think the parents won’t be good parents. This is a flawed, utilitarian approach that disrespects the intrinsic worth of life. Who are we to predict what kind of life the child will live? And even if it isn’t the happiest of lives (what defines happiness?), is that reason to end it before it begins?&quot;

Hmm! Very interesting Gerald! I agree with you that the ends do not justify the means. Now, let us reflect on what you wrote in your piece.

Since we have a shortage of childbirths in Singapore, therefore we must &quot;Married women should be strongly discouraged — even prevented — from having an abortion without any good reason.&quot;

Hmm. Women are viewed as numbers, as baby making machines to make up the numbers for children in Singapore. As such, taking away that choice is justified. Now, let me ask, is this also not a utilitarian approach? Is this also an instrumentalist view of a human being? That the person is living not for their own purpose, but for some other purpose as determined by a government authority?

This is hypocrisy, is it not? You are more than willing to argue against use of government power if it is something you do not agree with, but you are perfectly happy to argue for the use of government power to COERCE other people to live according to the rules of YOUR religion.

&quot;A foetus is in her body, but that does not make it part of her body. It has its own brain, heart, and yes, its own soul. Ask any pregnant mother (who intends to keep the baby) whether she believes she is carrying another life in her. Her answer will almost always be Yes.&quot;

You missed my point. I did not say that the foetus is part of her body. What I am saying is that she alone bears the cost of carrying the child. For that very reason she alone should have the choice as to whether to carry the child or not. And by cost I do not just mean money, but everything else etc etc etc.

A perfect counterpoint to your argument about utilitarianism is the natural rights argument. The surest thing a person owns in this world, is their own body. They alone should have the right to decide how their body is to be used. Passing a law taking away a person&#039;s right to decide what to do with their own body violates that natural right. You have already demonstrated such tendencies with your support for criminalising homosexual sex, so it is no surprise that you also seek to extend government control to over a woman&#039;s body as well.

It is no coincidence that most countries in the world ALLOW for abortion, but prohibit beyond the first trimester. This is a compromise made according to how likely the foetus is able to survive without a womb. Essentially, a foetus is using another PERSON as a life support system. Does that person not have a choice in how their body is used? If a foetus is able to survive without the womb, then it is deemed to be capable of independent existence. If it is not, then surely another person cannot be compelled to be a life support system for a foetus that has no prior existing life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gerald:</p>
<p>&#8220;The ends don’t justify the means. We don’t kill a baby just because we think the parents won’t be good parents. This is a flawed, utilitarian approach that disrespects the intrinsic worth of life. Who are we to predict what kind of life the child will live? And even if it isn’t the happiest of lives (what defines happiness?), is that reason to end it before it begins?&#8221;</p>
<p>Hmm! Very interesting Gerald! I agree with you that the ends do not justify the means. Now, let us reflect on what you wrote in your piece.</p>
<p>Since we have a shortage of childbirths in Singapore, therefore we must &#8220;Married women should be strongly discouraged — even prevented — from having an abortion without any good reason.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hmm. Women are viewed as numbers, as baby making machines to make up the numbers for children in Singapore. As such, taking away that choice is justified. Now, let me ask, is this also not a utilitarian approach? Is this also an instrumentalist view of a human being? That the person is living not for their own purpose, but for some other purpose as determined by a government authority?</p>
<p>This is hypocrisy, is it not? You are more than willing to argue against use of government power if it is something you do not agree with, but you are perfectly happy to argue for the use of government power to COERCE other people to live according to the rules of YOUR religion.</p>
<p>&#8220;A foetus is in her body, but that does not make it part of her body. It has its own brain, heart, and yes, its own soul. Ask any pregnant mother (who intends to keep the baby) whether she believes she is carrying another life in her. Her answer will almost always be Yes.&#8221;</p>
<p>You missed my point. I did not say that the foetus is part of her body. What I am saying is that she alone bears the cost of carrying the child. For that very reason she alone should have the choice as to whether to carry the child or not. And by cost I do not just mean money, but everything else etc etc etc.</p>
<p>A perfect counterpoint to your argument about utilitarianism is the natural rights argument. The surest thing a person owns in this world, is their own body. They alone should have the right to decide how their body is to be used. Passing a law taking away a person&#8217;s right to decide what to do with their own body violates that natural right. You have already demonstrated such tendencies with your support for criminalising homosexual sex, so it is no surprise that you also seek to extend government control to over a woman&#8217;s body as well.</p>
<p>It is no coincidence that most countries in the world ALLOW for abortion, but prohibit beyond the first trimester. This is a compromise made according to how likely the foetus is able to survive without a womb. Essentially, a foetus is using another PERSON as a life support system. Does that person not have a choice in how their body is used? If a foetus is able to survive without the womb, then it is deemed to be capable of independent existence. If it is not, then surely another person cannot be compelled to be a life support system for a foetus that has no prior existing life.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Donaldson Tan</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/09/the-stork-is-still-not-quite-convinced/comment-page-1/#comment-22722</link>
		<dc:creator>Donaldson Tan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 16:10:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1717#comment-22722</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I must applaud you for these brave viewpoints. It is not a politically correct statement to make especially about abortions, but who cares! It is still an opinion and a valid one for some at that!&lt;/i&gt; - Ravi Philemon (#1)

&lt;i&gt;I did not intend my article to become a debate about abortion. But since it has turned into one, I shall just address some of the differing views.&lt;/i&gt; - Gerald (#26)

&lt;b&gt;LOL&lt;/b&gt;

Gerald (#26): The pro-choice camp provides a plural solution for all both camps. Those from the Pro-Life camp who can´t bear to abort can keep the baby for a variety of reason such as ethics, morals, respecting the life of the baby, while those from the Pro-Choice camp enjoys the benefits they perceive from aborting the baby.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I must applaud you for these brave viewpoints. It is not a politically correct statement to make especially about abortions, but who cares! It is still an opinion and a valid one for some at that!</i> &#8211; Ravi Philemon (#1)</p>
<p><i>I did not intend my article to become a debate about abortion. But since it has turned into one, I shall just address some of the differing views.</i> &#8211; Gerald (#26)</p>
<p><b>LOL</b></p>
<p>Gerald (#26): The pro-choice camp provides a plural solution for all both camps. Those from the Pro-Life camp who can´t bear to abort can keep the baby for a variety of reason such as ethics, morals, respecting the life of the baby, while those from the Pro-Choice camp enjoys the benefits they perceive from aborting the baby.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gerald</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/09/the-stork-is-still-not-quite-convinced/comment-page-1/#comment-22711</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 14:29:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1717#comment-22711</guid>
		<description>I did not intend my article to become a debate about abortion. But since it has turned into one, I shall just address some of the differing views.

zj,

&quot;firstly, you may have wrote that abortion is an inhuman act. yet if parents who cant take care of their children n dun wish to carry the ‘burden’ of having the child n let the child born for the sake of avoiding ’sin’, do you think the child will be able to have a caring environment when his/her parents are not mentally ‘prepared’ to have and tk care him/her in the 1st place?&quot;

The ends don&#039;t justify the means. We don&#039;t kill a baby just because we think the parents won&#039;t be good parents. This is a flawed, utilitarian approach that disrespects the intrinsic worth of life. Who are we to predict what kind of life the child will live? And even if it isn&#039;t the happiest of lives (what defines happiness?), is that reason to end it before it begins?

YE,

&quot;regarding women supposedly using “abortion as a method of contraception”, where are the statistics on this?&quot;

Over 60% of abortions are performed on married women. I&#039;m sure they are not all victims of rape or incest.

It&#039;s good that you recognize the pro-life framing of the abortion debate. Can you also acknowledge the pro-choice framing of the debate, specifically that the foetus is part of the mother&#039;s body to do as she pleases with it?

Han,

&quot;Women should have power over their own bodies&quot;

A foetus is in her body, but that does not make it part of her body. It has its own brain, heart, and yes, its own soul. Ask any pregnant mother (who intends to keep the baby) whether she believes she is carrying another life in her. Her answer will almost always be Yes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did not intend my article to become a debate about abortion. But since it has turned into one, I shall just address some of the differing views.</p>
<p>zj,</p>
<p>&#8220;firstly, you may have wrote that abortion is an inhuman act. yet if parents who cant take care of their children n dun wish to carry the ‘burden’ of having the child n let the child born for the sake of avoiding ’sin’, do you think the child will be able to have a caring environment when his/her parents are not mentally ‘prepared’ to have and tk care him/her in the 1st place?&#8221;</p>
<p>The ends don&#8217;t justify the means. We don&#8217;t kill a baby just because we think the parents won&#8217;t be good parents. This is a flawed, utilitarian approach that disrespects the intrinsic worth of life. Who are we to predict what kind of life the child will live? And even if it isn&#8217;t the happiest of lives (what defines happiness?), is that reason to end it before it begins?</p>
<p>YE,</p>
<p>&#8220;regarding women supposedly using “abortion as a method of contraception”, where are the statistics on this?&#8221;</p>
<p>Over 60% of abortions are performed on married women. I&#8217;m sure they are not all victims of rape or incest.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s good that you recognize the pro-life framing of the abortion debate. Can you also acknowledge the pro-choice framing of the debate, specifically that the foetus is part of the mother&#8217;s body to do as she pleases with it?</p>
<p>Han,</p>
<p>&#8220;Women should have power over their own bodies&#8221;</p>
<p>A foetus is in her body, but that does not make it part of her body. It has its own brain, heart, and yes, its own soul. Ask any pregnant mother (who intends to keep the baby) whether she believes she is carrying another life in her. Her answer will almost always be Yes.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ronin</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/09/the-stork-is-still-not-quite-convinced/comment-page-1/#comment-22707</link>
		<dc:creator>ronin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 14:06:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1717#comment-22707</guid>
		<description>The govt should focus on aiding stay-at-home mums. Thus far, govt measures are aimed mostly at working mums, to the detriment of stay-at-home mums. Is the govt implying that the children of stay-at-home mums are not S&#039;poreans??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The govt should focus on aiding stay-at-home mums. Thus far, govt measures are aimed mostly at working mums, to the detriment of stay-at-home mums. Is the govt implying that the children of stay-at-home mums are not S&#8217;poreans??</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: YE</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/09/the-stork-is-still-not-quite-convinced/comment-page-1/#comment-22704</link>
		<dc:creator>YE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:56:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=1717#comment-22704</guid>
		<description>James, your terminology is politicized, and it reflects a pro-life framing of the issue of abortion. There is no &quot;human being&quot;, no &quot;they&quot;, no &quot;child&quot;, if, as many pro-choicers hold, a fetus is not a human being in the first place. 

No matter what justification is given, your stance entails that the rights of the fetus trump the rights of the woman carrying it. This seems morally questionable to say the least, no matter what alternate scenario is raised in which the opposite occurs - i.e. where the fetus (now considered as a human being) is aborted. 

In short, this is not a simple issue and it doesn&#039;t involve spades.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James, your terminology is politicized, and it reflects a pro-life framing of the issue of abortion. There is no &#8220;human being&#8221;, no &#8220;they&#8221;, no &#8220;child&#8221;, if, as many pro-choicers hold, a fetus is not a human being in the first place. </p>
<p>No matter what justification is given, your stance entails that the rights of the fetus trump the rights of the woman carrying it. This seems morally questionable to say the least, no matter what alternate scenario is raised in which the opposite occurs &#8211; i.e. where the fetus (now considered as a human being) is aborted. </p>
<p>In short, this is not a simple issue and it doesn&#8217;t involve spades.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
