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	<title>Comments on: Calls are a-ringing?</title>
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		<title>By: aygee</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/calls-are-a-ringing/comment-page-1/#comment-28033</link>
		<dc:creator>aygee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 04:37:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2411#comment-28033</guid>
		<description>To comments 15, 16 17,

I agree that its fine to tell someone if they made an error. and i thank Comment #1 for pointing it out.

BUT, the point i was trying to make is let Mr Leong come back and clarify himself. 

&quot;TOC the new misrepresentation in Statistics?&quot;, 

&quot;You are like McCain’s attack team, coming up with all sorts of unsubstantiated claims.&quot;

Those comments doesnt add to the conversation, judgemental, and uncalled for.

And to Comment #2, you are saying TOC only represent one side of the story. I disagree - TOC gives an alternative discourse to what we read in mainstream papers. 

Anyway, i&#039;m digressing to the original intention of the post, so i shall stop here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To comments 15, 16 17,</p>
<p>I agree that its fine to tell someone if they made an error. and i thank Comment #1 for pointing it out.</p>
<p>BUT, the point i was trying to make is let Mr Leong come back and clarify himself. </p>
<p>&#8220;TOC the new misrepresentation in Statistics?&#8221;, </p>
<p>&#8220;You are like McCain’s attack team, coming up with all sorts of unsubstantiated claims.&#8221;</p>
<p>Those comments doesnt add to the conversation, judgemental, and uncalled for.</p>
<p>And to Comment #2, you are saying TOC only represent one side of the story. I disagree &#8211; TOC gives an alternative discourse to what we read in mainstream papers. </p>
<p>Anyway, i&#8217;m digressing to the original intention of the post, so i shall stop here.</p>
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		<title>By: loop</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/calls-are-a-ringing/comment-page-1/#comment-28005</link>
		<dc:creator>loop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 02:58:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2411#comment-28005</guid>
		<description>I simly refused to watch any charity shows stage by Mediacorp.  Why should they be paid to do this?  Isn&#039;t this charity?  They should either do it for free or not do it at all.  I&#039;m sure people will still be donating to charity with or without Mediacorp taking part.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I simly refused to watch any charity shows stage by Mediacorp.  Why should they be paid to do this?  Isn&#8217;t this charity?  They should either do it for free or not do it at all.  I&#8217;m sure people will still be donating to charity with or without Mediacorp taking part.</p>
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		<title>By: Donaldson Tan</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/calls-are-a-ringing/comment-page-1/#comment-27998</link>
		<dc:creator>Donaldson Tan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 02:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2411#comment-27998</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;So you are comparing a 10-year change in average wage against a averaged 1-year rate of change in median wage — which can confuse the reader.

With all this talk of misrepresentation in MiniBonds, is TOC the new misrepresentation in Statistics?&lt;/i&gt; - #1

You completely missed the point. Mr Leongś point is that the median wage is a better indicator than the average wage. To prove this point, let´s refer to the income distribution data from 2006 Wage Report released by the Ministry of Manpower.

According to the 2006 Wage Report, the actual national average income is S$3554/mth. Although the actual median income isn´t provided, one can infer from the data provided that the median income is somewhere between S$2000-2999 per month. My guess is that the actual median income would be S$2300 per month, which is close to the standard starting pay for graduates. 

The average income and the median income would be very close to each other if and only if the income distribution follows a symmetric model. The discrepancy between the average and median income reflects the growing income gap no doubt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>So you are comparing a 10-year change in average wage against a averaged 1-year rate of change in median wage — which can confuse the reader.</p>
<p>With all this talk of misrepresentation in MiniBonds, is TOC the new misrepresentation in Statistics?</i> &#8211; #1</p>
<p>You completely missed the point. Mr Leongś point is that the median wage is a better indicator than the average wage. To prove this point, let´s refer to the income distribution data from 2006 Wage Report released by the Ministry of Manpower.</p>
<p>According to the 2006 Wage Report, the actual national average income is S$3554/mth. Although the actual median income isn´t provided, one can infer from the data provided that the median income is somewhere between S$2000-2999 per month. My guess is that the actual median income would be S$2300 per month, which is close to the standard starting pay for graduates. </p>
<p>The average income and the median income would be very close to each other if and only if the income distribution follows a symmetric model. The discrepancy between the average and median income reflects the growing income gap no doubt.</p>
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		<title>By: Donaldson Tan</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/calls-are-a-ringing/comment-page-1/#comment-27994</link>
		<dc:creator>Donaldson Tan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 02:18:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2411#comment-27994</guid>
		<description>Does anybody have the video of President Ong Teng Cheong playing Teresa Tengś ¨The Moon Represent My Heart¨ on piano while his wife  sang the song? I am not sure if this video was part of the President Charity Show or NKF Charity Show.  However, I am pretty sure it is the first time I see any Singaporean politician participating in a charity show not as spectator or VIP guest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anybody have the video of President Ong Teng Cheong playing Teresa Tengś ¨The Moon Represent My Heart¨ on piano while his wife  sang the song? I am not sure if this video was part of the President Charity Show or NKF Charity Show.  However, I am pretty sure it is the first time I see any Singaporean politician participating in a charity show not as spectator or VIP guest.</p>
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		<title>By: Obamaosama</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/calls-are-a-ringing/comment-page-1/#comment-27944</link>
		<dc:creator>Obamaosama</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 15:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2411#comment-27944</guid>
		<description>How and where do they distribute these vouchers ? Community Centres ? Geylang Lorongs ?

ObamatakOsama</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How and where do they distribute these vouchers ? Community Centres ? Geylang Lorongs ?</p>
<p>ObamatakOsama</p>
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		<title>By: Give From The Heart</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/calls-are-a-ringing/comment-page-1/#comment-27942</link>
		<dc:creator>Give From The Heart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 15:10:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2411#comment-27942</guid>
		<description>How much of these giving is really given from the heart? . . . given from a heart of compassion and passion for the disadvantaged!

Especially from corporate companies and some individuals -  is it truly altruistic giving or is there some other motives attached.

These numbers by itself, of the President’s Star Charity Show, are hollow and quite meaningless. 

Leong Sze Hian - thank you for doing a great job of giving insight into macro and micro issues and presenting them convincingly and courageously. Love your articles and writings!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How much of these giving is really given from the heart? . . . given from a heart of compassion and passion for the disadvantaged!</p>
<p>Especially from corporate companies and some individuals &#8211;  is it truly altruistic giving or is there some other motives attached.</p>
<p>These numbers by itself, of the President’s Star Charity Show, are hollow and quite meaningless. </p>
<p>Leong Sze Hian &#8211; thank you for doing a great job of giving insight into macro and micro issues and presenting them convincingly and courageously. Love your articles and writings!</p>
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		<title>By: Robbery</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/calls-are-a-ringing/comment-page-1/#comment-27941</link>
		<dc:creator>Robbery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 15:04:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2411#comment-27941</guid>
		<description>if i am reing robbed for $100, then robber throw back $5 to me, should i be thankful not?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>if i am reing robbed for $100, then robber throw back $5 to me, should i be thankful not?</p>
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		<title>By: Whenever You Give to The Poor, Do Not Blow A Trumpet</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/calls-are-a-ringing/comment-page-1/#comment-27937</link>
		<dc:creator>Whenever You Give to The Poor, Do Not Blow A Trumpet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 14:51:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2411#comment-27937</guid>
		<description>Whenever you give to the poor, do not blow a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites  . . . . like to do, that they may be recognized and honored and praised by men. 

But when you give to charity, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,

So that your deeds of charity may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. Mathew 6:2-4</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whenever you give to the poor, do not blow a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites  . . . . like to do, that they may be recognized and honored and praised by men. </p>
<p>But when you give to charity, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,</p>
<p>So that your deeds of charity may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. Mathew 6:2-4</p>
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		<title>By: geng</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/calls-are-a-ringing/comment-page-1/#comment-27935</link>
		<dc:creator>geng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 14:49:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2411#comment-27935</guid>
		<description>It will be interesting to know how much the President himself donates each year.

Since he earns SO MUCH for doing what he does, and the show is called HIS Charity Show after all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It will be interesting to know how much the President himself donates each year.</p>
<p>Since he earns SO MUCH for doing what he does, and the show is called HIS Charity Show after all.</p>
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		<title>By: one day</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/calls-are-a-ringing/comment-page-1/#comment-27932</link>
		<dc:creator>one day</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 14:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2411#comment-27932</guid>
		<description>to the number one comment, you can set up a website like toc and attract people.

just do it and we shall see how good you can do it and how many people you can attract.

then we will know who win and who lose.

if you win i think many people here will join your website instead of toc.

i will also.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to the number one comment, you can set up a website like toc and attract people.</p>
<p>just do it and we shall see how good you can do it and how many people you can attract.</p>
<p>then we will know who win and who lose.</p>
<p>if you win i think many people here will join your website instead of toc.</p>
<p>i will also.</p>
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		<title>By: DA</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/calls-are-a-ringing/comment-page-1/#comment-27931</link>
		<dc:creator>DA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 14:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2411#comment-27931</guid>
		<description>&quot;To TOC, Dont misrepresenting, Comments 1 and 2,

Thank you for pointing out what could possibly be an errorenous points from Mr Leong. What we dont need from you is a judgement call from you saying that TOC misrepresents stats.

Let Mr Leong rebut your points before you start making personal and judgemental statements about Mr Leong and TOC.&quot;

Well, I don&#039;t think the TOC or its readers have ever withheld &quot;personal and judgemental statements&quot; about the PAP for any of its misrepresentations, regardless of whether its members were given a chance to rebut the points. Fair game to call someone out of errors, I say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;To TOC, Dont misrepresenting, Comments 1 and 2,</p>
<p>Thank you for pointing out what could possibly be an errorenous points from Mr Leong. What we dont need from you is a judgement call from you saying that TOC misrepresents stats.</p>
<p>Let Mr Leong rebut your points before you start making personal and judgemental statements about Mr Leong and TOC.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, I don&#8217;t think the TOC or its readers have ever withheld &#8220;personal and judgemental statements&#8221; about the PAP for any of its misrepresentations, regardless of whether its members were given a chance to rebut the points. Fair game to call someone out of errors, I say.</p>
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		<title>By: chorus</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/calls-are-a-ringing/comment-page-1/#comment-27928</link>
		<dc:creator>chorus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 14:33:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2411#comment-27928</guid>
		<description>12 aygee:
&quot;Thank you for pointing out what could possibly be an errorenous points from Mr Leong. What we dont need from you is a judgement call from you saying that TOC misrepresents stats.

Let Mr Leong rebut your points before you start making personal and judgemental statements about Mr Leong and TOC.&quot;

First off, kudos to TOC for not censoring the comments about misrepresenting.

Secondly, aygee, this is not the first time this has happened. #1&#039;s comments may be harsh, but we should demand no less than 100% accurate reporting if TOC is to be a truly credible alternative media outlet from Singaporeans. 

If not, as #1 has mentioned, it will simply be 144 alongside 145, no?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>12 aygee:<br />
&#8220;Thank you for pointing out what could possibly be an errorenous points from Mr Leong. What we dont need from you is a judgement call from you saying that TOC misrepresents stats.</p>
<p>Let Mr Leong rebut your points before you start making personal and judgemental statements about Mr Leong and TOC.&#8221;</p>
<p>First off, kudos to TOC for not censoring the comments about misrepresenting.</p>
<p>Secondly, aygee, this is not the first time this has happened. #1&#8242;s comments may be harsh, but we should demand no less than 100% accurate reporting if TOC is to be a truly credible alternative media outlet from Singaporeans. </p>
<p>If not, as #1 has mentioned, it will simply be 144 alongside 145, no?</p>
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		<title>By: tiredsingaporean</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/calls-are-a-ringing/comment-page-1/#comment-27918</link>
		<dc:creator>tiredsingaporean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 14:13:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2411#comment-27918</guid>
		<description>13) ronin on October 27th, 2008 9.53 pm PAP’s tactic is to increase all prices and then pretend to give away goodies to “help”……..hoping that people will vote for them in return

not this time anymore, well unless they suddenly annouce that all citizens can now withdraw all their CPF savings at the original policy at 55 years retirement age, then most probably the older folks would still vote for them, if not, then don&#039;t think so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>13) ronin on October 27th, 2008 9.53 pm PAP’s tactic is to increase all prices and then pretend to give away goodies to “help”……..hoping that people will vote for them in return</p>
<p>not this time anymore, well unless they suddenly annouce that all citizens can now withdraw all their CPF savings at the original policy at 55 years retirement age, then most probably the older folks would still vote for them, if not, then don&#8217;t think so.</p>
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		<title>By: ronin</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/calls-are-a-ringing/comment-page-1/#comment-27910</link>
		<dc:creator>ronin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 13:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2411#comment-27910</guid>
		<description>PAP&#039;s tactic is to increase all prices and then pretend to give away goodies to &quot;help&quot;........hoping that people will vote for them in return</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PAP&#8217;s tactic is to increase all prices and then pretend to give away goodies to &#8220;help&#8221;&#8230;&#8230;..hoping that people will vote for them in return</p>
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		<title>By: aygee</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/calls-are-a-ringing/comment-page-1/#comment-27894</link>
		<dc:creator>aygee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 11:33:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2411#comment-27894</guid>
		<description>To TOC, Dont misrepresenting, Comments 1 and 2,

Thank you for pointing out what could possibly be an errorenous points from Mr Leong. What we dont need from you is a judgement call from you saying that TOC misrepresents stats.

Let Mr Leong rebut your points before you start making personal and judgemental statements about Mr Leong and TOC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To TOC, Dont misrepresenting, Comments 1 and 2,</p>
<p>Thank you for pointing out what could possibly be an errorenous points from Mr Leong. What we dont need from you is a judgement call from you saying that TOC misrepresents stats.</p>
<p>Let Mr Leong rebut your points before you start making personal and judgemental statements about Mr Leong and TOC.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: tiredsingaporean</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/calls-are-a-ringing/comment-page-1/#comment-27877</link>
		<dc:creator>tiredsingaporean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:48:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2411#comment-27877</guid>
		<description>all these years president charity shows are wayang only to let the people know that the garment cares alot, tell me how much money are actually meant for helping the poor out from the total money donated in each show, after minusing all the this and that, maybe 10% left, how to justify against that 3millions+ yearly pay out to the president salary, a president should be someone who can decide and take the neccessary actions to make sure that all the citizens are taken care off which is his top priority and not the other way round and agree to whatever hikes the ruling party wishes, our system is totally upside down and it need change, a bit one indeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>all these years president charity shows are wayang only to let the people know that the garment cares alot, tell me how much money are actually meant for helping the poor out from the total money donated in each show, after minusing all the this and that, maybe 10% left, how to justify against that 3millions+ yearly pay out to the president salary, a president should be someone who can decide and take the neccessary actions to make sure that all the citizens are taken care off which is his top priority and not the other way round and agree to whatever hikes the ruling party wishes, our system is totally upside down and it need change, a bit one indeed.</p>
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		<title>By: If one drills in, can find lots of w..ms.</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/calls-are-a-ringing/comment-page-1/#comment-27873</link>
		<dc:creator>If one drills in, can find lots of w..ms.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:20:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2411#comment-27873</guid>
		<description>I salute mr Leong for his analysis. 
In general, I believe singaporeans should wake up and learn to question as the more you can question, the more information you may get, subjected to how is the information being controlled.

Not many can handle the truth.

Luckily, this is singapore. singaporeans don&#039;t like to question. Questioning is the 1st step to gaining knowledge. 

When everyone learns what is meant by Questioning, many information can surface.  Or maybe majority choose to live in the dark? 

I hope not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I salute mr Leong for his analysis.<br />
In general, I believe singaporeans should wake up and learn to question as the more you can question, the more information you may get, subjected to how is the information being controlled.</p>
<p>Not many can handle the truth.</p>
<p>Luckily, this is singapore. singaporeans don&#8217;t like to question. Questioning is the 1st step to gaining knowledge. </p>
<p>When everyone learns what is meant by Questioning, many information can surface.  Or maybe majority choose to live in the dark? </p>
<p>I hope not.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/calls-are-a-ringing/comment-page-1/#comment-27870</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 08:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2411#comment-27870</guid>
		<description>&quot;the amount of donations from calls from the public shown on the screen was about $ 478,000.&quot;

What ? That is very little. Nathan as the president of Uselessness should BAIL OUT the charity show with his own undeserved pocket money !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;the amount of donations from calls from the public shown on the screen was about $ 478,000.&#8221;</p>
<p>What ? That is very little. Nathan as the president of Uselessness should BAIL OUT the charity show with his own undeserved pocket money !</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/calls-are-a-ringing/comment-page-1/#comment-27869</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 08:37:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2411#comment-27869</guid>
		<description>&quot;After adding a few large corporate donations, the total amount donated announced at the end of the show was $ 5,041.833.&quot;

Are these large corporates entitle to much tax rebate base on the amount they donate ? Are these figures inject by the corporations are made to make the event look successful, and however at the end of the day, these corporations are able to get back those return through tax rebate ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;After adding a few large corporate donations, the total amount donated announced at the end of the show was $ 5,041.833.&#8221;</p>
<p>Are these large corporates entitle to much tax rebate base on the amount they donate ? Are these figures inject by the corporations are made to make the event look successful, and however at the end of the day, these corporations are able to get back those return through tax rebate ?</p>
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		<title>By: tiredman</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/calls-are-a-ringing/comment-page-1/#comment-27867</link>
		<dc:creator>tiredman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 08:14:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2411#comment-27867</guid>
		<description>I don’t even want to watch that performance. I have already donated 2% of whatever I bought for my consumption to the charity. Give me a reason why do I need to donate more when our G told us that 2% are for the poor? 
I time that I donate is when I see old grandma and old grandpa standing on the streets during late night selling tissue papers. Sir, I do not see these old people being helped. Why? President Charity Show? Why? Where the 2% did go to? I feel puzzled and helpless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don’t even want to watch that performance. I have already donated 2% of whatever I bought for my consumption to the charity. Give me a reason why do I need to donate more when our G told us that 2% are for the poor?<br />
I time that I donate is when I see old grandma and old grandpa standing on the streets during late night selling tissue papers. Sir, I do not see these old people being helped. Why? President Charity Show? Why? Where the 2% did go to? I feel puzzled and helpless.</p>
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