Wednesday, October 15, 2008 8:59
Even Cupid has to adapt
In Main Stories, Out Of The Box, Tan Kin Lian, Top Story • 1,760 views • 33 Comments
CONGRATULATIONS! Everyone here at The Online Citizen would like to congratulate Gerald and Elena Giam on the birth of their beautiful baby girl.
Tan Kin Lian / Columnist
Alice’s boyfriend ended their relationship after three years. Alice was devastated. This was the second time that it has happened to her. She now has the difficult task of looking for a new relationship. Before she does that, however, she first has to overcome her latest disappointment, which may take some time.
Bobby worked hard on his career. He is already in his late twenties and does not have a steady girl friend. The local girls that he was attracted to were no longer available – they preferred “foreign talents” as they earned more and are more cultured, sociable and graceful.
There are many people like Alice and Bobby in Singapore. I like to suggest some “out-of-the-box” solutions to this long-time challenge.
Diversify your friends
A few years ago, I gave a talk about courtship. I made this suggestion to young people, “Have three steady friends. Do not have only one steady friend. It is too risky. You are likely to make the wrong choice”. This is what has happened to Alice.
Here are the advantages of having three steady friends at the same time.
- It is easier to start a steady relationship. Each party knows that they are not taking the full risk of a tied relationship right at the start.
- Both parties have the chance of learning of each other’s strengths, weaknesses, likes and dislikes in an open atmosphere, without any pre-commitment.
- It is easier to drop a steady relationship and still remain good friends, without feeling personal.
A few people told me that they did not like this suggestion. Already, it is quite difficult to manage a single steady relationship. It will be impossible to handle three steady friends at the same time.
These people are not aware of the concept of paradigm shift. They apply the same thinking to a new environment.
Under my concept of “three steady relationship”, it is not required to give the same degree of attention to a “single steady friend”.
One colleague liked the idea. I helped him find one steady friend, on the understanding that it is only “one of three”. They got married after two years and have a child now. I think they did not proceed to look for another “two steady friends”. But the concept did help them to start a relationship, which worked for them.
Stage two
After starting with three steady friends, it will be necessary to move to “stage two” within a year. During this stage, you and your steady friend agree to spend more time with each other and to reduce the involvement with the other steady friends, without cutting them off. Both parties may need to fall back to “stage one” in case the new relationship does not work.
The chance of success in “stage two” is much higher, as both parties make this conscious choice after they have gotten to know each other better during the previous months.
It’s nothing new
Some people said that my concept is nothing new. In fact, many people have adopted this method, in various forms, and it has been proven successful.
I agree. I do not wish to claim credit in inventing this idea. My purpose is to observe what works well and to educate people to give it a try. If it works for you, try it. If not, you can still find another way.
Getting a date
During my younger days, I had a difficult time in getting a date. When I approach an attractive girl, she is usually not available. It is likely that she is already attached, or does not like a humble person of modest background. Or perhaps my approach was wrong.
My first successful date came with the help of an older person – the sales manager in my company. He invited me to a dinner with a client. I agreed to go and asked him to find me a date. I was attracted to a girl in the design department. I asked him to invite her to be my date. The girl accepted the request of the sales manager. Maybe, she did not want to turn him down.
I had an enjoyable time. I remember it to this day.
Match-making
If you like a particular person, it is helpful to get an independent person to help you to make a match.
This independent person can be a parent or an older relative. Having gone through the experiences of life, they are more likely to know what to look for. A marriage is more than going on a date or party. You can rely on your parents or relatives to look after your best interest. If they cannot do it well, they can engage the help of a more experienced person – yes, the match-maker.
You may not realise it, but match-making is being applied in many business activities, e.g. to find the best person to fit a job or to rent out a property.
The prospective employer needs an experienced person, known as the “executive recruiter” or “head hunter”, to find the right person to fit the job. The recruiter has to search from many available candidates. The search has to be done in both ways – the candidate must fit the job and the job must interest the candidate.
The owner of a property needs a property agent to rent out the property to a prospective tenant.
Finding a right lifetime partner is more difficult. All the more, it is important to get professional or experienced help. It is all right to get help from the modern Cupid (i.e. match-maker) and still retain the right of making the final decision.
Cupid does not need to search the whole world for you. You can give the names of potential candidates for Cupid to narrow down the search. Maybe, Cupid can give you three steady friends to start with.
Conclusion
Someone said, “If you keep doing things the same way, how can you expect to get a different outcome?”
For people who have trouble finding a right lifetime partner, it is time to try a different approach. I suggest the ‘three steady friends” and to get the assistance of the modern Cupid (i.e. match maker).
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33 Comments
one day
What do you mean ’steady friend’? Juggling three girls at a time very difficult leh… (not to mention $$$)
Pondefecator
I wonder whether this concept of ’steady relationship’ has the same intepretation as in ‘going steady’. If that’s the case, has any thought been given to what it entails? Are we not said to be still a conservative people? Isn’t partial commitment considered ‘two timing’ and if we go with this article’s suggestion
‘three timing’ if there could be such a term. Even in western societies, generally frown on such practices labelling women ’sluts’ if they have multiple relationships. And if there is an attempt to defend the point that steady relationships does not include sex, then I need to wonder whether I, at fifty is behind time or someone else is. And let’s not forget the call not to put oneself at risk by having multiple sex partners.
Heh… good stuff, KL. Something which I like to discuss – BGR.
That’s what I did as per what you have written – have a handful of girls in minds which I hope to know better in time. After a period, take stock, rank them on suitability and discard those whom I do not think can progress beyond friends. Try to have a handful of people whom you want to invest your time in.
Downside? People may think you ‘buaya’. But if you keep it at a good friendship level and with sincerity, people will give the benefit of the doubt. Girls are able to pick up the vibes if a guy is intending to progress further. If she can tell you to back off, it means she trusts you enough as a good friend, but don’t want you to get hurt with her rejection. Guys more ’swah-koo’ (bumpkin, hardheaded).
Also realised in this age/society, looks and presentation matter a lot. Depending on the type of girls you are focusing, dress appropriately, not flamboyant, yet sincere enough to show who you are (not dressing to pretend someone you are not). Er, unless you are after booth babes and need flashy cars. But then you aren’t interested in a relationship, right?
For stage two, once you have narrowed say to 2 choices, invest more time in getter to know them better. Cultivate the deeper friendship and soon you will be able to know if one of the choices is suitable for a relationship.
Then progress stage three – go on a private date and see if friendship can progress into relationship.
Trick is don’t hurry, be thick-skinned abit and rinse-repeat if it fails.
Tips:
#1Everyone wants to be in their best towards someone they care. But girls tend to look beyond physical attraction towards emotional support and internal character (mayber 60-80% emotional, internal, character, support). Guys? 80% physical attraction.
Eg. Be sensitive to a girl’s need. If something happens to her best friend, give listening ear, not solution. If she had an accident and gives you a call, ask if anyone got hurt, not did you call the insurance.
#2 Be financially stable. Not financially rich. Having a cool head in managing finance shows a lot if you are seeking a relationship. Again i stress not how much you earn.
A lot is on common sense. And I don’t subscribe to love to at first look.
Cheers,
Kaffein
hansolo
“steady friend” as in “friends with benefits” lah.. Mr Tan very steady!
People Progress Party
I think the stages are too long. And having 3 steady friends mean 3 sexual partners? :) …
I donno if it’s just me..
but most of the girls i meet and go out with.. it might be only half a year from the time you know her till we become partners.
From my experience…
1) Are you the type that likes to give love or receive love.
I am not saying that it is 1 sided, it is a mutual relationship but one side likes to give more and the other likes to receive more. Usually, the girls like to recieve more.. but there are also gals who like to care more for their counterparts.
2) Are you two sexually compatible.
Let’s face it, there are couples who are not sexually attracted to each other and find love-making a tedious task. I believe physical intimacy is critical also in bonding. If you are just steady friends without intimacy, you will never find out.
3) Are you two on the same wavelength
Communication is very important. Some people just cannot agree with each other on their points of views. They are fundamentally different in philosophy of life.. They will never get together.
4) Your character..
If your partner likes sports, and you like indoor activities like home.. then it will be very hard to spend time together that is enjoyable. People says finding a common hobby… yes.. but why try to create a hobby ? A hobby is something that is in the person, it cannot be created. So finding a common hobby is like trying to create some common lifestyle.. which will not happen .. since you have been accustomsed to your lifestyle for years. Some like nightspots..but the partners hate the smell and liquor
si mi kor ai tan
The boys can go try and try and will be seen as ‘macho’.
If the girls go try and try – what do you call them?
I cannot even make one boyfirend, how to make three?
Of course the boys can make such suggestions . . . good for them to play the field . . . like soccer.
Olly
For many years of my life. I remained single although earning nearly 15K a month as a shipping banker. This was partly due to the need to care for my ailing mother and job commitments. I ofen say to myself, but I know better. I am not that much of a looker, slightly overweight even with less than endearing features like my ears which are really huge. When I reached 30. I remember, one evening conversing with my friends and feeling left out that I was still not married. The subject they were talking about was childcare. So you can imagine how left out I felt. We moved in different paths after that.
My life an endless litany of work, sleep and work again. In between, there were beautiful diving trips to Australia and even a hike in Andes, but it was never the same without a soulmate.
One day I read some strange article in the brotherhood press, it is still around, if you care to search on it.
Its about the power of asking. According to the jocular author. Beggars and bent pastors are one of the richest people on this planet.
As they dont have any hangups about asking, The author went on to say, we are so used to giving, that these days we have all been conditioned not to “receive” openly. I cant remember the whole article. That is the only part I can recall, but I remember it ended with the words, just ask for it! Its really that simple.
I was very angry when I read the essay. As I felt it had trivialized my own predicament. So I wrote a reply to this Darkness, character, it is still there in the Intelligent singaporean today and it ran almost 2 pages. In this long letter, I called him all sort of things and I ended up writing, so I am asking now…but dont hold your breathe.
A few days later a man e-mailed me. I replied, “Do I know you?” He wrote back, “You know me now.”
Today we are an item. I guess the moral of the story is this, you need to ask for it and even feel comfortable about it. Then it will all come together very nicely.
I wish you all luck and happy hunting
olivia Tham
si mi kor ai tan
8) Olly on October 15th, 2008 3.32 pm
Lucky you! one wish, one gem!
You see, it contradicts what this article is suggesting i.e to ‘diversify your friends” to find THE one. Do we need to have three to find one?
I do not believe you would be able to fully ‘let go’ of the others when you think you have decided on THE one.
I don’t know, but my 5 cents (add 3 cents for inflation) opinion is when you cultivate a habit of having ‘reserves’, you will most likely keep the habit for the rest of your life. This could only spell trouble when you grow tired of the one you have chosen and who is constantly by your side. Would you then return to the ‘diversify’ way? Trouble, trouble . . . .
single woman
Is Melissa that news reporter on tele a single ? a person should not wait too long to get married lest no eggs….
singaporedaddy
To WIMC,
I would like to stress the brotherhood is NOT a dating agency. We seem to have alot of this request especially from women of a certain vintage and ilk concerning this subject. This has been well documented and to be honest we do not know how to deal with this problem.
It seems like quite a big problem. We are currently NOT in a position to confirm or deny what has been shared in 3.32 pm. However wish you and pumpman the very best Olly.
SD (internet liaison officer of the brotherhood)
Pls be informed Darkness has left blogosphere and we all miss him dearly
si mi kor ai tan
aiyoh! sw (#10) – don’t ask questions like that . . . afterwards the clever people go bring in unwanted children from other countries and make singles like us become their mothers – national service.
Powderful
so is kin lian suggesting that a person be intimate (sexually included) with 3 steady friend and then choose 1 out of the 3 (breaking the heart of the other 2 in the process of course) after the intimate courtship???
I am sorry, this is possibly one of the worst written articles I’ve ever found on dating. Not because of the “steady friends” idea – which is a very badly articulated way of talking about polyamorous dating, a concept which I am absolutely fine with. It does not offer any genuine insights, and reads like a SDU pamphlet.
Saint Splattergut
pleinelune…
I am inclined to agree. On that it’s a rather badly written article. My reason for this is that it assumes that people who find it tough to maintain friendships with three people concurrently “always do things in the same way”.
Is it really that simple?
Another reason is not really mine… Let me explain. A friend has said this before, that he would never be able to “like” a friend he’s known all along that way. So yeah. There are people like this. This method – not gonna work for them.
It does not offer any genuine insights, and reads like a SDU pamphlet. – pleinelune (#13)
pleinelune, you are very funny. What so hard to have 3 close friends at the same time? Must it always be a date between 2 members of the opposite sex?
Tan Kin Lian
Hi
The traditional approach of dating works for 70%, who got married,. But it did not work for the remaining 30%, who remained single. My “out of the box” approach is addressed to these 30%. Maybe, they should try a different approach.
The traditional approach is not a success for the 70% either. Look at the divorce rate, which has been increasing over the years. Maybe, if they tried my “out of the box” approach, it would have led to a better outcome.
Some people were successful with the “asking” approach. Well done. It does work for some people, but may not work for others. It has its risks as well (i.e. confidence trickseters).
Different approahces may work for different people. We need diversity. Happy dating.
lim
Just wanted to offer my congratulations to Gerald and his family. Its a joyous occasion when a new-born arrives.
I am also a Mr Tan
Mr Tan Kin Lian is amazing. He makes time to deal with the plight of victimised retail investors, and also got time to teach me how to date. How amazing. Nominate Mr Tan Kin Lian for President!
There are a lot of stigma – like fat, short, etc. Over the age. I am very very encouraged by Olivia Tham’s sharing. Like I have mentioned, there is no one-trick pony. We are dealing with people with real feelings, wants and needs. Not some computer programming script when you run you expect a certain result.
Being a Christian, I will like to quote this story where Peter walked on water. No man has performed that miracle except for Peter. And Peter had the joy and feeling because he stepped out of the boat. Because he opened his mouth (this time at the right time) to ask Jesus if he could come. Jesus said, “Come.”
For all the other 11 disciples, they can say all you want. They had missed the greatest adventure in their lives. They never experienced because they never opened their mouths and ask.
Likewise for relationship communications, don’t be afraid to open your mouth and ask. The most you receive is a busted ego.
Er, maybe I’m blessed. Me – stout, short at 1.65m. Wife? 1.71m, slim, gorgeous and pretty. Did you think I was successful with the first asking? How about this woman (now my wife) telling me our relationship cannot last >3 months?
Well, I married her. Indian saying goes somewhat like: man marrying a taller woman is a blessed man. I say amen and thank you.
No tricks, lah. Be sincere and be yourself.
Cheers,
Kaffein
PS. I often wonder as I walk along Orchard Road: how come all the chio girls end up with some ‘ugly’ guys? Because these guys got guts to ask.
Tan Kin Lian
Hi #17
I wrote this article a few weeks ago, before the retail investor issues. The article was held back a few weeks.
in my humble opinion.. all these SOPs are very much uncalled for. how complicated can it be – you meet someone, you fall for that someone, and if its mutual, you get together. the only problem is the wheres and hows of it. i have never adhered to any such “dating protocols” recommended by so-called love gurus, and never had a problem meeting people.
si mi kor ai tan
I still cannot get it – am i missing something?
Could someone help me link Olivia’s sharing on ‘asking’ to TKL’s call to diversify?
What has ‘asking’ go to do with ‘diversifying’?
As far as I can understand, asking could be a one time thing and presto! you get what you asked for – no more, no less, like in Olivia’s case. This is a pure case of divine intervention – of course I am not implying there is no hard work required by Olivia and her other half to sustain the marriage.
Kaffein mentioned some key words: “Er, maybe I’m blessed” . . . indeed you are blessed. Tell me then, did you have to have three steadies to get to know THE one? Did you have to break two hearts to get one? This is selfish and very self-centered. It might have something to do with the ego too.
To Miss Tan #20,
- See #8 comment who identifies herself as Miss Olivia Tham.
You wrote> As far as I can understand, asking could be a one time thing and presto! you get what you asked for – no more, no less, like in Olivia’s case. This is a pure case of divine intervention – of course I am not implying there is no hard work required by Olivia and her other half to sustain the marriage.
Kaffein> This article helps others to find a partner in life, not how to cultivate a marriage. So my comments in alongside TKL’s writings. I’m not saying it is a sure guarantee success.
You wrote> Kaffein mentioned some key words: “Er, maybe I’m blessed” . . . indeed you are blessed. Tell me then, did you have to have three steadies to get to know THE one?
Kaffein> Did I ever mentioned steadys or being a two/three -timer in my comments? What I had written was: keep to 2-3 friends whom you sense can move beyond just friendship towards a relationship.
That means not ‘leading’ these people on. I’ve mentioned being sincere, so when a particular friend asks, be truthful and frank. If he/she reacts otherwise, eg jealous, etc, well, maybe that person too wants moved deeper than friendship. Then you may want to consider to drop the other two and spend more time with him/her to cultivate that friendship towards a relationship.
Unfortunately there is no formula into starting a relationship. There are too many variables, purely because humans are involved.
For me, yes, I kept 3 people close to myself. Of course one of whom is the girl I married.
You wrote> Did you have to break two hearts to get one? This is selfish and very self-centered. It might have something to do with the ego too.
Kaffein> I didn’t ask anyone to lead people on. Stick to group outings and you’ll probably won’t put yourself and your ‘friends’ in a fix. Neither did I ask anyone to jump into a relationship and then to pull out later.
For most of my comments, I keep stressing sincerity. That means no pretense, no lying, no leading on only to backout. Just friends but with intention towards a relationship. Sometimes you do lose a good friend because the other did not respond according to your intend.
Ego? heh… it went down the drain the moment I took a risk to ask the nice girl (now wife) out.
Kaffein
si mi kor ai tan
21) Kaffein on October 16th, 2008 1.33 pm
My only reference to you is based on the ‘blessed’ comment you made ,and, like Olivia, both of you were truly blessed. My wish is for both of you to continue to be blessed.
The comment I made about having to choose one steady out of 3 came from TKL’s suggestions which i reproduce here: . . . . .
“I made this suggestion to young people, “Have three steady friends. Do not have only one steady friend. It is too risky. You are likely to make the wrong choice”. This is what has happened to Alice”.
Your suggestions on group outings and not to jump into a relationship is also in opposition of TKL’s suggestion – don’t you think?
I’d like to offer my humble suggestion:
To find an ideal mate, it’s better YOU work at making yourself more desirable. Not by earning lots of money or becoming very handsome or pretty. If that were the formula, Hollywood won’t be full of broken marriages. No, we make ourselves more desirable by getting our inner world in order, becoming more reliable, responsible and dependable. Jerry Maguire was wrong. A husband or wife does not “complete” you. You need to be complete before finding a mate.
Just my 2 cents.
1
err your suggestions suck.
what happened to loyalty? isn’t that the stuff of relationships?
this entry misses the point completely. maintain three girlfriends or three boyfriends? hedge your bets?
weren’t relationships about commitment and loyalty, not just being one of three? and where are we supposed to find three when even one is so hard to find? all these individuals with hopes and feelings now reduced to a 33% statistical probability– and why are we even thinking of this?
the truth of the matter is that sg is too brutal and too cruel a place to make the wrong choice. girls are always unapproachably distant and each and every young person must choose the ‘best’ they can, and pick over everyone with a fine toothed comb.
Good article Kin Lian but I disagree on several points:
1. Having a “3 steady girlfriends” (or boyfriends) is tantamount to cheating. If a woman puts it clearly that she HAS NOT CHOSEN ANYONE, it really means she is still available and open for pursueing/generally getting to know. 3 good friends is not the same as having 3 boyfriends.
And anyway, why stop at 3 good male friends when you can have 5 good male friends? Take your time to get to know these guys ladies!
2. 2 strangers going to a match-maker in the hope of falling in love and getting hitched is ok. Although it is also recipe for a rushed wedding and eventually unhappy marriage because both did not get to know each other well before exchanging wedding vows.
“If you like a particular person, it is helpful to get an independent person to help you to make a match.” —-> is a lil like getting my neighbour to ask another guy out on my behalf. NO WAY! Imagine guys…this happening to you – you will flee first, no matter how gorgeous the woman may be.
How many of you here married someone who told you she loves you before you had the chance to say it to her? How many of you married a woman cos she sent you flowers first? I am betting 1 out of probably 10.
Times have changed, but the biological “set-up” of a man has not. The principle of TELL HER IF YOU LIKE HER doesn’t work if it’s the woman doing admitting or confession.
The real-life matchmaker serves you like a royalty whereas the online matchmaker is “self-service”. If you’re hoping that the government helps in love matters, it won’t happen. And if it does, it is always with an M element – money.
Today’s real-life matchmaking service (ie. those who promote them through community centres) are discriminating. Against looks or age.
P.S. Congrats to Gerlad and Elena! When was baby born? Show pics?
To: 25) si mi kor ai tan on October 16th, 2008 2.00 pm
SMKTan> My only reference to you is based on the ‘blessed’ comment you made ,and, like Olivia, both of you were truly blessed. My wish is for both of you to continue to be blessed.
Kaffein> Thanks! I’m sure you will be too :)
SMKTan> “I made this suggestion to young people, “Have three steady friends. Do not have only one steady friend. It is too risky. You are likely to make the wrong choice”. This is what has happened to Alice”.
Kaffein> Wouldn’t advise to 3 steadys. I think TKL meant steady good friends (I hope). That’s what I affirm: 2-3 good friends whom you can be at east with yourself in front of them. No pretense, talk everything under the sun, when you feel down, the first thought is to share your feelings with him/her, etc
Just good friends.
SMKTan> Your suggestions on group outings and not to jump into a relationship is also in opposition of TKL’s suggestion – don’t you think?
Kaffein> Yeap. Sometimes being in a group will allow you to the ‘other’ side of a person – how he is in public, how he relates to his and your friends.
Then when you meet you on a single date, you might find him different. Then you might want to ask if he is for real or just wayang in a single date. We do wear various hats in front of different groups of people. Doesn’t mean it’s wrong/not good, but it’s for you to decide if he/she is for real during the date.
No harm going for a couple more dates then :)
Kaffein
pugdragon
“My first successful date came with the help of an older person – the sales manager in my company. He invited me to a dinner with a client. I agreed to go and asked him to find me a date. I was attracted to a girl in the design department. I asked him to invite her to be my date. The girl accepted the request of the sales manager.”
Attracting girls are very different these days. You need to charm a girl, & confidence is really important. A girl gets turned on by a confident guy. A guy does not exude much confidence if he needs someone else to do the job for him.
Imagine juggling 3 role-playing video games with tremendous at one time. When are you going to really get into one of the games? It’ll take far too long. I’d rather concentrate on one game, finish it, & move on to the next. If a relationship doesn’t work out, move on, & you will emerge stronger & more ready for your next one.
Comments edited by moderator: Please don’t engage in name-calling. Tks.
si mi kor ai tan
31) pugdragon
thanks for sharing.
It’s the tried and tested way isn’t it? Possibly the reason for the low divorce rates in the old days.
However, TKL says it works 70% of the time and he is advising the remaining 30% to think ‘out-of-the-box’ and go for the 1 in 3 approach. To me, it sounds more like a remedy (if I can call it so) for the desperate.
Good news for the govt though.
lim – Thank you for your kind felicitations.
I feel we need to be more “thick skin” when wooing people we like. But it has to be done in a “kite flying way” means sometimes we let more string but sometimes we pull back more string.
we can try for maybe a year if there are really not much improvement then we will need to look for another “kite” to fly. Most important we must not feel too sad for the failed mission and continue to try and try but not sticking to the same “kite” for too long if there are no results, it will not be good for everybody.
love cannot be force.