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	<title>Comments on: Loss of hard earned savings</title>
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		<title>By: Donaldson Tan</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/loss-of-hard-earned-savings/comment-page-3/#comment-29659</link>
		<dc:creator>Donaldson Tan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 07:49:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2219#comment-29659</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Please be aware of the “moral hazard” issues.&lt;/i&gt; - Singasoft (#126)

Moral hazard is only applicable for MAS and the government because they play the role of regulators. It does not apply to victimised investors and financial institutions which have clearly defined their position. It also does not apply to people who has already chosen what side they will take.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Please be aware of the “moral hazard” issues.</i> &#8211; Singasoft (#126)</p>
<p>Moral hazard is only applicable for MAS and the government because they play the role of regulators. It does not apply to victimised investors and financial institutions which have clearly defined their position. It also does not apply to people who has already chosen what side they will take.</p>
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		<title>By: Donaldson Tan</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/loss-of-hard-earned-savings/comment-page-3/#comment-29654</link>
		<dc:creator>Donaldson Tan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 06:35:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2219#comment-29654</guid>
		<description>This is an excerpt from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cabinet.gov.sg/CabinetAppointments/Mr+Lee+Hsien+Loong.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Lee Hsien Long’s Biodata on Cabinet Website&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;i&gt;In 1990, Mr Lee was appointed Deputy Prime Minister with responsibilities for economic and civil service matters. He also concurrently &lt;b&gt;served as Chairman of the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) from 1998 until 2004&lt;/b&gt;, and Minister for Finance from 2001 until 2007.

At the MAS, Mr Lee initiated reforms to liberalise the financial sector and to shift the emphasis &lt;b&gt;from one-size-fits-all regulation towards a lighter supervisory touch, relying more on disclosure and caveat emptor&lt;/b&gt;.&lt;/i&gt;

Does this suggest that over-zealous middle managers at MAS may hesitate to go against policies that LHL had spearheaded when he was Chairman of MAS?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an excerpt from <a href="http://www.cabinet.gov.sg/CabinetAppointments/Mr+Lee+Hsien+Loong.htm" rel="nofollow">Lee Hsien Long’s Biodata on Cabinet Website</a>:</p>
<p><i>In 1990, Mr Lee was appointed Deputy Prime Minister with responsibilities for economic and civil service matters. He also concurrently <b>served as Chairman of the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) from 1998 until 2004</b>, and Minister for Finance from 2001 until 2007.</p>
<p>At the MAS, Mr Lee initiated reforms to liberalise the financial sector and to shift the emphasis <b>from one-size-fits-all regulation towards a lighter supervisory touch, relying more on disclosure and caveat emptor</b>.</i></p>
<p>Does this suggest that over-zealous middle managers at MAS may hesitate to go against policies that LHL had spearheaded when he was Chairman of MAS?</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Tan</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/loss-of-hard-earned-savings/comment-page-3/#comment-29104</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Tan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 18:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2219#comment-29104</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Please be aware of the “moral hazard” issues.&lt;/i&gt; - Singasoft (#126)

Fence-sitting is the least effective mean to pressure for action.

&lt;i&gt;Also, fairness should be looked from both sides.&lt;/i&gt; - Singasoft (#126)

Yes. In the case of DBS High Notes 2 and 5, the legal and commercial set-up is already unfair right from the start. DBS is the issuer, arranger and distributor. Moreover, the same contract is used for both financial advisory and sales of investment product. The set-up is already unfair.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Please be aware of the “moral hazard” issues.</i> &#8211; Singasoft (#126)</p>
<p>Fence-sitting is the least effective mean to pressure for action.</p>
<p><i>Also, fairness should be looked from both sides.</i> &#8211; Singasoft (#126)</p>
<p>Yes. In the case of DBS High Notes 2 and 5, the legal and commercial set-up is already unfair right from the start. DBS is the issuer, arranger and distributor. Moreover, the same contract is used for both financial advisory and sales of investment product. The set-up is already unfair.</p>
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		<title>By: Singasoft</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/loss-of-hard-earned-savings/comment-page-3/#comment-29095</link>
		<dc:creator>Singasoft</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 15:56:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2219#comment-29095</guid>
		<description>&quot;Prime Minister Lee reiterated MAS’s stance that the government should and would not step in to interfere with the process, citing it as a “moral hazard”, thereby leaving it entirely to the financial institutions to work out a deal with individual investors.&quot; - wayangparty

I&#039;d like to cautious people not to give mis-leading hope to those investors and to be realistic. Please be aware of the &quot;moral hazard&quot; issues. Also, fairness should be looked from both sides.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Prime Minister Lee reiterated MAS’s stance that the government should and would not step in to interfere with the process, citing it as a “moral hazard”, thereby leaving it entirely to the financial institutions to work out a deal with individual investors.&#8221; &#8211; wayangparty</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to cautious people not to give mis-leading hope to those investors and to be realistic. Please be aware of the &#8220;moral hazard&#8221; issues. Also, fairness should be looked from both sides.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/loss-of-hard-earned-savings/comment-page-3/#comment-28630</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 15:44:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2219#comment-28630</guid>
		<description>It is unbelieveable that many by now still think the issue is &quot;CAVEAT EMPTOR&quot;. 
The main focus issue is whether there is misrepresentation and misselling NOT CAVEAT EMPTOR.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is unbelieveable that many by now still think the issue is &#8220;CAVEAT EMPTOR&#8221;.<br />
The main focus issue is whether there is misrepresentation and misselling NOT CAVEAT EMPTOR.</p>
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		<title>By: Singasoft</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/loss-of-hard-earned-savings/comment-page-3/#comment-28622</link>
		<dc:creator>Singasoft</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 15:27:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2219#comment-28622</guid>
		<description>I think if you are first time investor (never invest shares, bonds, etc.) and lowly educated, you could reasonably be considered as &quot;vunerable&quot;. Age should not be an important factor.

I also think everyone and every hero can agree that not all should be compensated as that could create moral hazard and it&#039;s not fair to the shareholders of the FI.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think if you are first time investor (never invest shares, bonds, etc.) and lowly educated, you could reasonably be considered as &#8220;vunerable&#8221;. Age should not be an important factor.</p>
<p>I also think everyone and every hero can agree that not all should be compensated as that could create moral hazard and it&#8217;s not fair to the shareholders of the FI.</p>
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		<title>By: Donaldson Tan</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/loss-of-hard-earned-savings/comment-page-3/#comment-28387</link>
		<dc:creator>Donaldson Tan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 19:53:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2219#comment-28387</guid>
		<description>mengmeng (#122),

When the relationship manager is trying to hard sell you and attempts to distract you from reading the prospectus, what should you do? Downplaying the risk is mis-representation. Distracting the retail investor from reading the prospectus until the contract has been signed is also mis-representation.

If the prospectus denies the distributor of any liability relating to financial advisory, while the distributor is also acting as a financial advisor to the retail investor, there is no way financial institutions cannot see any conflict of interest and that the set-up undermines the retail investor right from the start.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mengmeng (#122),</p>
<p>When the relationship manager is trying to hard sell you and attempts to distract you from reading the prospectus, what should you do? Downplaying the risk is mis-representation. Distracting the retail investor from reading the prospectus until the contract has been signed is also mis-representation.</p>
<p>If the prospectus denies the distributor of any liability relating to financial advisory, while the distributor is also acting as a financial advisor to the retail investor, there is no way financial institutions cannot see any conflict of interest and that the set-up undermines the retail investor right from the start.</p>
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		<title>By: mengmeng</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/loss-of-hard-earned-savings/comment-page-3/#comment-28372</link>
		<dc:creator>mengmeng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 18:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2219#comment-28372</guid>
		<description>Clear not?

&quot;Prospective investors in the Notes should note that there are many different types of notes or bonds in the market
place, many of which will have unique and distinctive features. Not all notes or bonds are capital protected. Notes
which are sold or redeemed before their maturity date will be subject to unwinding or other transaction costs, and the
amount received by prospective investors may be lower than the initial amount invested.
The purchase of any Notes to be issued under the Programme involves certain risks. You should ensure that you
understand the nature of the Notes, in particular, the section headed “Risk Factors”, and should carefully study the
matters set out in the relevant Pricing Statement, before you invest in the Notes. There will be no guarantee from any
entity to you that you will recover any amount payable under the Notes and you could lose all or a substantial part
of your investment in the Notes.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clear not?</p>
<p>&#8220;Prospective investors in the Notes should note that there are many different types of notes or bonds in the market<br />
place, many of which will have unique and distinctive features. Not all notes or bonds are capital protected. Notes<br />
which are sold or redeemed before their maturity date will be subject to unwinding or other transaction costs, and the<br />
amount received by prospective investors may be lower than the initial amount invested.<br />
The purchase of any Notes to be issued under the Programme involves certain risks. You should ensure that you<br />
understand the nature of the Notes, in particular, the section headed “Risk Factors”, and should carefully study the<br />
matters set out in the relevant Pricing Statement, before you invest in the Notes. There will be no guarantee from any<br />
entity to you that you will recover any amount payable under the Notes and you could lose all or a substantial part<br />
of your investment in the Notes.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: JustMe</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/loss-of-hard-earned-savings/comment-page-3/#comment-28099</link>
		<dc:creator>JustMe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 13:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2219#comment-28099</guid>
		<description>If the compensation (if any) is at &quot;market value&quot;, investors will get very little back.  Just look at the various unit trusts and equities and how they have been performing the past couple of months.  How anyone wants to get back 100% at this time is beyond me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the compensation (if any) is at &#8220;market value&#8221;, investors will get very little back.  Just look at the various unit trusts and equities and how they have been performing the past couple of months.  How anyone wants to get back 100% at this time is beyond me.</p>
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		<title>By: zhummmeng</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/loss-of-hard-earned-savings/comment-page-3/#comment-27866</link>
		<dc:creator>zhummmeng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 08:04:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2219#comment-27866</guid>
		<description>Many insisted that the prospectus is an easy document to read and understand and therefore  able to make an informed decision.Don&#039;t be fooled by MAS and the FIs .You need help and the RM is supposed to help not only to understand but also to tell you whether the product is suitable for you after looking into your circumstances. The onus lies with them. They need only to tell either of these words, good or not good for you.
Below is a testimony of a financially trained person.


Vincent said...

    Just want to share a personal experience. I am a Malaysian working in Singapore &amp; married to a local Singapore girl. My in-law sold their property in 2007 &amp; went to a local bank to deposit the proceeds &amp; they were persuaded to invest in Lehman mini-bonds. Fortunately, I found out about it the same day &amp; I brought them down to the bank to see the manager; I asked them to explain clearly &amp; in absolute details what product has been sold to my in-laws .... they could not satisfactorily explained. Now, I have been an investment professional for more than 10 years &amp; I have gone through the documents myself 3 times &amp; I could not even understand what this product is! Luckily, the bank agreed to void this deal. Shh, lucky.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many insisted that the prospectus is an easy document to read and understand and therefore  able to make an informed decision.Don&#8217;t be fooled by MAS and the FIs .You need help and the RM is supposed to help not only to understand but also to tell you whether the product is suitable for you after looking into your circumstances. The onus lies with them. They need only to tell either of these words, good or not good for you.<br />
Below is a testimony of a financially trained person.</p>
<p>Vincent said&#8230;</p>
<p>    Just want to share a personal experience. I am a Malaysian working in Singapore &amp; married to a local Singapore girl. My in-law sold their property in 2007 &amp; went to a local bank to deposit the proceeds &amp; they were persuaded to invest in Lehman mini-bonds. Fortunately, I found out about it the same day &amp; I brought them down to the bank to see the manager; I asked them to explain clearly &amp; in absolute details what product has been sold to my in-laws &#8230;. they could not satisfactorily explained. Now, I have been an investment professional for more than 10 years &amp; I have gone through the documents myself 3 times &amp; I could not even understand what this product is! Luckily, the bank agreed to void this deal. Shh, lucky.</p>
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		<title>By: zhummmeng</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/loss-of-hard-earned-savings/comment-page-3/#comment-27833</link>
		<dc:creator>zhummmeng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 03:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2219#comment-27833</guid>
		<description>Remuneration of RMs, consultants, insurance agents must change to prevent conflict of interest.. Remuneration must be based on advisory work provided and the fee charged negotiable with the customers. The products carry a very low nominal &#039;commission&#039; to compensate  for the die hard salesmen for too much sweet talking., beating round the bush and lies.
This model allows customers who think they are smart enough to DIY. In fact there are people who DIY their investment. It is good , it is ok.They save on commission. Salesmen don&#039;t  give advisory service that is commensurate with the commission they receive.The DIY investor  are responsible for any outcome. They buy directly from distributor and they conduct their due diligence.
How does it affect the products? 
The products will be able to give better return and if it is an insurance product better return, higher protection and at lower cost..
Somebody told me if this happens not many will want to join this profession.
It is fantastic,!! Whatever they are doing will be  professionalised . Now it is more like con job. This will eliminate the salesmen, reduce the consultant /insurance agent population from 14,000 to 5000. The 9000 can be deployed to industries where their &#039;skills&#039; are much needed instead of bringing in foreign talents. The 5000 left can be more professional, passionate, highly competent, advisory not product peddling and ethical and give to the best to consumers. 
The life insurance industry is seen as a get rich quick industry. Tom , dick and harry, may or mary, Ah beng, Ah lian,  including Ah meng  join because of the commission they can rob from Ah Pek, Ah Sohs , uncles and old aunties and the uneducated.
I remember someone from MAS remarked that commission driven  remuneration inevitably leads to conflict of interest, mis-selling and misrepresentation. It was reported in the paper. So what is MAS doing about it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remuneration of RMs, consultants, insurance agents must change to prevent conflict of interest.. Remuneration must be based on advisory work provided and the fee charged negotiable with the customers. The products carry a very low nominal &#8216;commission&#8217; to compensate  for the die hard salesmen for too much sweet talking., beating round the bush and lies.<br />
This model allows customers who think they are smart enough to DIY. In fact there are people who DIY their investment. It is good , it is ok.They save on commission. Salesmen don&#8217;t  give advisory service that is commensurate with the commission they receive.The DIY investor  are responsible for any outcome. They buy directly from distributor and they conduct their due diligence.<br />
How does it affect the products?<br />
The products will be able to give better return and if it is an insurance product better return, higher protection and at lower cost..<br />
Somebody told me if this happens not many will want to join this profession.<br />
It is fantastic,!! Whatever they are doing will be  professionalised . Now it is more like con job. This will eliminate the salesmen, reduce the consultant /insurance agent population from 14,000 to 5000. The 9000 can be deployed to industries where their &#8217;skills&#8217; are much needed instead of bringing in foreign talents. The 5000 left can be more professional, passionate, highly competent, advisory not product peddling and ethical and give to the best to consumers.<br />
The life insurance industry is seen as a get rich quick industry. Tom , dick and harry, may or mary, Ah beng, Ah lian,  including Ah meng  join because of the commission they can rob from Ah Pek, Ah Sohs , uncles and old aunties and the uneducated.<br />
I remember someone from MAS remarked that commission driven  remuneration inevitably leads to conflict of interest, mis-selling and misrepresentation. It was reported in the paper. So what is MAS doing about it?</p>
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		<title>By: Gilbert</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/loss-of-hard-earned-savings/comment-page-3/#comment-27784</link>
		<dc:creator>Gilbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 22:17:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2219#comment-27784</guid>
		<description>Speaking from an ex-financial advisor, the way we sell the financial products to the aunties and uncles certainly smelled of misrepresentation. We ourselves were not properly briefed by the topbrass of financial products. By the way, the way the minibonds is structured, no one will be able to understand it unless we have a degree in financial analysis or accounting.  If we are to comprehend the product thoroughly and then sell it to the consumers with the same explanation, I am sure no one will buy it as from what I read, it is a failry risky product.
However, since when there is a no-risk investment product? Even cash in the bank carries risk unless the government guarantees it&#039;s cash deposits when the bank goes bust. 
We are merely briefed the main points of the products and often given brochures to sell. Most importantly, clients want principal guaranteed products are if they know that their money is sfae, they will buy.
Our cash deposit interest rate has all along being very low at one precentage point or lower so I don&#039;t people with cash to look for higher yield. It is not greedy but also financially prudent to look for a better yielding safe investment.
A few lessons to learn here:
1. RMs/FAs need to be better positioned both in knowledge and ethics  to market financial products. Remuneration should not be soley tied to commission earns from sales of such products so RMs do not face the stress of monthly sales target.
2. Consumers need to be more enquiring when investing in such products in the future. If they don&#039;t feel &#039;safe&quot;, they should not invest at all.
3. Our retirees need  a retirement institution to help them to invest in a retiree fund for better returns. In Australia, a retiree fully-funded insitituion called Centrelink looks into the  retirement needs of retiree funds. The returns will then be given in the form of monthly cheque for retirement needs. It also looks into welfare retirement cases.
4. MAS so far has not aken a strong-arm watchdog view of the whole financial situation and this is the correct approach. In a free economy, less governmental involvement is appreciated so that banks and FIs can develop fully. 
5. In this once a lifetime financial tsunami, one needs to know that everything that you put your money in will go south. Investors in stocks, unit trusts, property, businesses, currencies, etc will depreciate. If you are an investor, you will know what I mean.

The best advice to all is still prudence in investment and goodwill to mankind. There is more  to ife than money and materialism. Learn to smell the roses along the way in life.

Thanks all.

Gilbert
NSW Sydney</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking from an ex-financial advisor, the way we sell the financial products to the aunties and uncles certainly smelled of misrepresentation. We ourselves were not properly briefed by the topbrass of financial products. By the way, the way the minibonds is structured, no one will be able to understand it unless we have a degree in financial analysis or accounting.  If we are to comprehend the product thoroughly and then sell it to the consumers with the same explanation, I am sure no one will buy it as from what I read, it is a failry risky product.<br />
However, since when there is a no-risk investment product? Even cash in the bank carries risk unless the government guarantees it&#8217;s cash deposits when the bank goes bust.<br />
We are merely briefed the main points of the products and often given brochures to sell. Most importantly, clients want principal guaranteed products are if they know that their money is sfae, they will buy.<br />
Our cash deposit interest rate has all along being very low at one precentage point or lower so I don&#8217;t people with cash to look for higher yield. It is not greedy but also financially prudent to look for a better yielding safe investment.<br />
A few lessons to learn here:<br />
1. RMs/FAs need to be better positioned both in knowledge and ethics  to market financial products. Remuneration should not be soley tied to commission earns from sales of such products so RMs do not face the stress of monthly sales target.<br />
2. Consumers need to be more enquiring when investing in such products in the future. If they don&#8217;t feel &#8217;safe&#8221;, they should not invest at all.<br />
3. Our retirees need  a retirement institution to help them to invest in a retiree fund for better returns. In Australia, a retiree fully-funded insitituion called Centrelink looks into the  retirement needs of retiree funds. The returns will then be given in the form of monthly cheque for retirement needs. It also looks into welfare retirement cases.<br />
4. MAS so far has not aken a strong-arm watchdog view of the whole financial situation and this is the correct approach. In a free economy, less governmental involvement is appreciated so that banks and FIs can develop fully.<br />
5. In this once a lifetime financial tsunami, one needs to know that everything that you put your money in will go south. Investors in stocks, unit trusts, property, businesses, currencies, etc will depreciate. If you are an investor, you will know what I mean.</p>
<p>The best advice to all is still prudence in investment and goodwill to mankind. There is more  to ife than money and materialism. Learn to smell the roses along the way in life.</p>
<p>Thanks all.</p>
<p>Gilbert<br />
NSW Sydney</p>
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		<title>By: Donaldson Tan</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/loss-of-hard-earned-savings/comment-page-3/#comment-27778</link>
		<dc:creator>Donaldson Tan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 20:58:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2219#comment-27778</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Donaldson, yes he can take side. But there is a huge difference between taking side when facts are on your side, and misrepresenting. Being partition give you the licence to suddenly become a layman without any financial understanding.&lt;/i&gt; - T (#99)

There is no mis-representation here, but your mis-interpretation. In the course of his campaign for rightful compensation for victimised retail investors, did he ever give out specific investment advice? No, not at all. Your presumption that being a former CEO of NTUC Income makes him an investment expert is flawed. Being CEO only meant that he is an acknowledged expert in business management of the insurance industry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Donaldson, yes he can take side. But there is a huge difference between taking side when facts are on your side, and misrepresenting. Being partition give you the licence to suddenly become a layman without any financial understanding.</i> &#8211; T (#99)</p>
<p>There is no mis-representation here, but your mis-interpretation. In the course of his campaign for rightful compensation for victimised retail investors, did he ever give out specific investment advice? No, not at all. Your presumption that being a former CEO of NTUC Income makes him an investment expert is flawed. Being CEO only meant that he is an acknowledged expert in business management of the insurance industry.</p>
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		<title>By: Just Another Singaporean</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/loss-of-hard-earned-savings/comment-page-3/#comment-27735</link>
		<dc:creator>Just Another Singaporean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 16:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2219#comment-27735</guid>
		<description>&quot;Here, I think it is suffice to say we should not be overly sensitive towards opposing comments. These comments can give a more balanced view.&quot;

The gist of the content is more important. Level of tone and emotion just gives it added flavour or bad taste depending on which side you stand. 

Emotion will definitely show for some who are more invested into the issue and / or  delibrately choose not to hold back this emotion for the purpose of effect or who may not have the predisposition to hold back this emotion. 

A rose by any other name still smells like a rose.

In any thread, contributions of various persuasions (the more the merrier) will either reinforce or convert an existing view. A balanced view is still the same whether it is said in a tone of an uncouth person with barely any education or some cultured Phd material.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Here, I think it is suffice to say we should not be overly sensitive towards opposing comments. These comments can give a more balanced view.&#8221;</p>
<p>The gist of the content is more important. Level of tone and emotion just gives it added flavour or bad taste depending on which side you stand. </p>
<p>Emotion will definitely show for some who are more invested into the issue and / or  delibrately choose not to hold back this emotion for the purpose of effect or who may not have the predisposition to hold back this emotion. </p>
<p>A rose by any other name still smells like a rose.</p>
<p>In any thread, contributions of various persuasions (the more the merrier) will either reinforce or convert an existing view. A balanced view is still the same whether it is said in a tone of an uncouth person with barely any education or some cultured Phd material.</p>
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		<title>By: Pie Kiah 69</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/loss-of-hard-earned-savings/comment-page-3/#comment-27733</link>
		<dc:creator>Pie Kiah 69</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 16:44:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2219#comment-27733</guid>
		<description>&gt; Tan Kin Lian (#93) 
&gt; i am not sure if there are people in category (c) and (d). If the financial institutions had been aware about the actual nature and risk of the structure and had represented in correctly to the investor, then these categories exist.
&gt;
&gt; a) Wrong target market – too old or illiterate
&gt; b) Misrepresentation by the financial reps
&gt; c) Those who are aware of the risks
&gt; d) Sophisticated investors

To be fair to everyone, we can&#039;t compensate people category in (c) and (d).  I&#039;m sure there are people who have taken the risks willing but still want to have a free-ride on any possible compensate for genuine victims of unethical selling.

People in (c) and (d) should NOT be compensated. They have to shoulder their own responsibility just like unethical businesses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; Tan Kin Lian (#93)<br />
&gt; i am not sure if there are people in category (c) and (d). If the financial institutions had been aware about the actual nature and risk of the structure and had represented in correctly to the investor, then these categories exist.<br />
&gt;<br />
&gt; a) Wrong target market – too old or illiterate<br />
&gt; b) Misrepresentation by the financial reps<br />
&gt; c) Those who are aware of the risks<br />
&gt; d) Sophisticated investors</p>
<p>To be fair to everyone, we can&#8217;t compensate people category in (c) and (d).  I&#8217;m sure there are people who have taken the risks willing but still want to have a free-ride on any possible compensate for genuine victims of unethical selling.</p>
<p>People in (c) and (d) should NOT be compensated. They have to shoulder their own responsibility just like unethical businesses.</p>
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		<title>By: minibombed</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/loss-of-hard-earned-savings/comment-page-3/#comment-27722</link>
		<dc:creator>minibombed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 16:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2219#comment-27722</guid>
		<description>Singasoft: If you are talking about fairness, why only &quot;unfair&quot; to the other parties?

I believe the comment  from Mr. TKL (TKL&#039;s blog FAQ from investors) is more sensible.

 Fair compensation
.....to investors who have been misled. A fair compensation is for the loss to be shared equally between the investor and the distributor.
Some investors expect 100% compensation. This is unreasonable. The distributor expects to get away with no compensation. This is unreasonable also.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Singasoft: If you are talking about fairness, why only &#8220;unfair&#8221; to the other parties?</p>
<p>I believe the comment  from Mr. TKL (TKL&#8217;s blog FAQ from investors) is more sensible.</p>
<p> Fair compensation<br />
&#8230;..to investors who have been misled. A fair compensation is for the loss to be shared equally between the investor and the distributor.<br />
Some investors expect 100% compensation. This is unreasonable. The distributor expects to get away with no compensation. This is unreasonable also.</p>
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		<title>By: Singasoft</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/loss-of-hard-earned-savings/comment-page-3/#comment-27716</link>
		<dc:creator>Singasoft</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 16:12:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2219#comment-27716</guid>
		<description>To #113:

yes, I hope we are moving towards that direction. But this issue itself deserves another separate thread. 

Here, I think it is suffice to say we should not be overly sensitive towards opposing comments. These comments can give a more balanced view.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To #113:</p>
<p>yes, I hope we are moving towards that direction. But this issue itself deserves another separate thread. </p>
<p>Here, I think it is suffice to say we should not be overly sensitive towards opposing comments. These comments can give a more balanced view.</p>
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		<title>By: Just Another Singaporean</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/loss-of-hard-earned-savings/comment-page-3/#comment-27708</link>
		<dc:creator>Just Another Singaporean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 15:52:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2219#comment-27708</guid>
		<description>&quot;Look at the debate between Obama and McCain…I’m hoping that we can be as matured as them when debating over an issue.&quot;

You must be joking to have even brought up this example. They way they go about open discussion and debate will make us look like boy scouts. They have developed into a fine art of how spinning and mud slinging is being done.

If we are in anyway close to them, similar form of our engagement (perhaps by more well known persons) would have already been done and aired in our so-called MSM - so that weakness or strength of any view / counter-view can be
seen through by a much wider audience.

You should know by now that maturity comes from both people and the good system by design which feed on one another.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Look at the debate between Obama and McCain…I’m hoping that we can be as matured as them when debating over an issue.&#8221;</p>
<p>You must be joking to have even brought up this example. They way they go about open discussion and debate will make us look like boy scouts. They have developed into a fine art of how spinning and mud slinging is being done.</p>
<p>If we are in anyway close to them, similar form of our engagement (perhaps by more well known persons) would have already been done and aired in our so-called MSM &#8211; so that weakness or strength of any view / counter-view can be<br />
seen through by a much wider audience.</p>
<p>You should know by now that maturity comes from both people and the good system by design which feed on one another.</p>
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		<title>By: zhummmeng</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/loss-of-hard-earned-savings/comment-page-3/#comment-27706</link>
		<dc:creator>zhummmeng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 15:46:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2219#comment-27706</guid>
		<description>When the deputy chairman of MAS said  that MONEY SENSE public education can help investors or consumers to make informed decision. I wonder he was so naive or he was making a clown of himself. I wonder whether he has ever attended a MONYSENSE talk?
Money sense at the best helps consumers to make sense of some financial words
and equip them with conversational vocabularies.Example, to understand what is whole life products , ILPs or UTs or diversification or asset allocation.They don&#039;t equip the consumers with skills to DIY. The deuty chairman misrepresented the objectives of Money Sense. and DEFINITELY  It will NOT help them to make informed decision.
MS aims to do as that , to make consumers financially literate and not an expert.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When the deputy chairman of MAS said  that MONEY SENSE public education can help investors or consumers to make informed decision. I wonder he was so naive or he was making a clown of himself. I wonder whether he has ever attended a MONYSENSE talk?<br />
Money sense at the best helps consumers to make sense of some financial words<br />
and equip them with conversational vocabularies.Example, to understand what is whole life products , ILPs or UTs or diversification or asset allocation.They don&#8217;t equip the consumers with skills to DIY. The deuty chairman misrepresented the objectives of Money Sense. and DEFINITELY  It will NOT help them to make informed decision.<br />
MS aims to do as that , to make consumers financially literate and not an expert.</p>
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		<title>By: Singasoft</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/loss-of-hard-earned-savings/comment-page-3/#comment-27698</link>
		<dc:creator>Singasoft</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 15:15:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2219#comment-27698</guid>
		<description>To everyone: please do not be overly sensitive on opposing views or comments. 

I hope the community here can debate things as mature as possible.

Look at the debate between Obama and McCain...I&#039;m hoping that we can be as matured as them when debating over an issue.

I believe most who are affected will want to be compensated fully by the FI, but let&#039;s realize that it is not something fair to the other parties. However, I hope that those affected to be compensated as much as possible. But, be mentally prepared that in many cases you will probably lose much of your monies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To everyone: please do not be overly sensitive on opposing views or comments. </p>
<p>I hope the community here can debate things as mature as possible.</p>
<p>Look at the debate between Obama and McCain&#8230;I&#8217;m hoping that we can be as matured as them when debating over an issue.</p>
<p>I believe most who are affected will want to be compensated fully by the FI, but let&#8217;s realize that it is not something fair to the other parties. However, I hope that those affected to be compensated as much as possible. But, be mentally prepared that in many cases you will probably lose much of your monies.</p>
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