The only thing I’ve to say is… Lim Hng Kiang damn ugly.

Money sense helps you to be money sensible only and will not make you an expert to be able to make an informed decision. If a CPA with the knowledge and years of expereince has difficulty sometimes to make an informed decision what makes you think attending money sense talk will turn you into an expert.
At the best people who attend talk may have some idea of what is whole life or endowment or term or an ILP or UTs or financial planning or estate planning and all these can help you to understand your needs better so that when you are engaging with an adviser you can MAKE SENSE of these words.This is as far you can get.You don’t become investment or financially savvy but you are not blur.
I think the Minister of Trade misrepresented and mis-sold MONEY SENSE. MONEY SENSE helps you to make sense of what financial adviser is advising you. It does NOT help you to make informed decision ,DIY or to do self medication.You still need an adviser to help you, to tell you whether a product is good or bad for you based on the needs and circumstances uncovered.The adviser CANNOT tell you
and say ,” ok, you make the decision. I told you everything about the product. You make y0ur own judgement and decide.”
Yes, it is definitely beneficial to understand those words so that you won’t get cheated by insurance agents who push products to you. You know that the agent has to do more than this. He has to check your financial circumstances, your needs before he can IDENTIFY a product to meet the needs uncovered by the check up. So understanding that this is to be done by an adviser and if you find that an insurance agent is not doing it but pushing a product to you, you will know this agent is not to be trusted. ThIS IS an example how MONEYSENSE CAN HELP YOU to look out. as far and .to make sense of the products and the way your needs should be approached and NOT making the informed decision the Minister have you believed. If the steps are complied with by the adviser taking ownership of the investment is fairer because the advsier cannot be faultled for his recommendation being of unreasonable basis.. Product advice presumes a savvy investor and that he or she can make an informed decision but this option is open to abuse by the advisers. I know that the KYC form is always filled up after the sale and it is written to fit the whatever revealed by the client to justify the product selling..Product pushing has contributed to the current fiasco
I am disappointed by the Minister because he gave nothing more than what we have been hearing.

Sigh…how many committees should there be JUST to set things right? ~shake head~

Some investors have to shoulder the responsibilities – it is risky to trust everything a banker says and without even reading nor understanding a prospectus. I feel there is a lack of INVESTMENT EDUCATION for investors!

May be the government should educate the banks and financial instituitions – “HOW TO TALK TO YOUR CLIENTS”. lol

BTW thought-provoking article Sze Hian!

Mr Low (Thia Khiang): ‘The Minister’s answers sound like the MAS shouting across the river, while watching a fire burning’

LOL!

LOL!!

LOL!!!

Ya, I’ve always admired Mr Low’s quick witted replies or queries.
But he is only suitable to be an MP and not at any ministerial or cabinet level position.

As Nero watched Rome burning centuries ago, history may now begin to write a new chapter with the backdrop of the financial and economic crisis.

Saw the epic – “The fall of the Roman Empire” ?

Well for all we know, the ruling party is practising LeaderlessShip while the rest of the world practises leadership. Didn’t we know that our world-clown always do the reverse of what is right ? When people do right, they do wrong. When people think the PAP is stupid, the PAP thinks that it is damn smart.
It is this kind of foolish contrary thinking and action that heralds the start of “The fall of the Lee Empire”. It will eventually crumble and no one will remember the clowns.

#5 Isa,

who are u to judge whether a MP can be a minister? Bear in mind that we may be voting (provided there is no walk over) for our MP. Minister? we have no say.

#5 Isa,

just curious, why do you say that he is not suitable? is it from his lack of certificates or qualifications? no offence intended, jst curious. I’ve always believed that what a leader need is the right mindset and the right heart. They don’t need to be the smartest, but they need to direct the minds of the people working for them. In that respect, I believe that Mr Low, given the chance and training, will do pretty well. probably at least as good as some of the ministers that we have now….

FYI.

With deep regret, I have to agree with #5.

I have always, among friends, defended Mr Low’s low profile saying I understood that he is organising the grass roots, planning to mobilise them at the right time.

Well the right time came and it was left to someone with NTUC connections to mobilise the masses against an injustice that aaffected many S’poreans.

The WP could done something useful. Instead its Sec Gen made a witty remark.

BTW there are PAP ministers who do not deserve to be ministers, let alone road sweepers.

Wonder what the Home Team feel about Wong Kan Seng LEADING them as their minister? Watch the expression on George Yeo’s face as the votes were counted? Where was the air of confidence? Qualified to be a minister but nearly not an MP?

Leaders stand up to scrutiny. Ours? Leave me to do my job in peace. Otherwise I can’t concentrate and have to spend time fixing things (i.e. sue you till pants drop).

A leader need not be the smartest.

You think Lim Hng Kiang is smart?!

You think Lim Swee Say is smart?! You ask me, I ask who?

A leader needs to be one that even the smartest will willingly follow …

That’s where a leader draws his resources from … one man cannot build an empire.

The question to ask is … who would you follow? Lim Hng Kiang or Low Thia Kiang?

Singapore’s brain drain is happening because the smartest don’t want to follow the current crop of PAP rulers …

Only the remaining 66.6% do .

“If we have a committee of supply, or if we were to take this to the courts, I can assure you, nothing will move. All FIs will take defensive legal action and your affected investors will have to wait weeks, if not months, maybe even years, before they can have recourse/”
“That makes a lot of good headlines; it’s grandstanding, scores a lot of political points but doesn’t address … the nub of this whole episode — that we are concerned about investors being mis-sold, we are concerned about investors who invested inappropriately.”

Yah right. It seems Hong Kong is probably years away from any resolution while Singapore is moving along. Left to the investors themselves to meet the banks individually, we would certainly have moved on long ago.

Maybe while waiting for MAS to move, the affected investors can get their hairdo?

11) Disillussioned

good comment! . . . you get ‘disillusioned’ because one opposition mp made a witty comment. care to tell us then what your feelings are in regards to the other 82 mps who did nothing?

Q. if a peanut farmer can become president of the united states, why can’t LTK be a minister?
Ans: plainly, because we do not have true democracy.

A banker is somebody who gives you an umbrella on a sunny day and takes it away on a rainy day.

A regulator keeps his umbrella for his own use (protection).

I was wondering who’d predict a 185 year old bank would collapse. On the basis of that, wouldn’t any product related to that bank be classified as low risk? The flip side is that it is not capital protected, hence that increases the risk factor.

Would anyone (other than Lehman insiders) have classified these products as HIGH risk before the bank’s collapse?

When the PAP was first formed, LKY and the rest of the founding members fought for the rights of workers and the poor. It is on this supoort that PAP has become the ruling party for decades and “helped” build Singapore where it is today. Nowadays, they seem to be “barking down orders” from their ivory towers of elitism and not caring how the people on the ground are feeling. They have lost touch.

I don’t think LHK answered Low’s question at all. Worse still, his first remark is “Don’t politicize the issue…!!!????” When people ask the right questions you accuse them of trying to gain political ground? WTF? How come we got so many Tai Chi ministers? Every morning gather at the grass patch outside Parliament house do mass tai chi???

For the 10,000 investors who have lost their entire life savings on the mini-bonds and voted for the PAP in the last GE and now wondering why the very people whom you have voted into Parliament are keeping mum and not fighting for your rights. Let me remind you that you have chosen to give them up to the PAP 3 years ago. LIVE with it and vote more wisely in the next GE. You are responsible for your own financial situation now and also the political landscape now where the MPs that you have voted in dare not stand up for your rights and voice your concerns in Parliament.

the defiant look makes me sick!

At least LTK do something rite…he was helping the ppl to clear some doubts, not like the rest of the MPs…sit dwn there getting ten over thousands pay doing noting. WAKE UP ppl who vote them…think whether these MPs you voted last election help you to voice up during these hard time, everythings go up (public fare UP, Utility UP, ERP UP!!! N PAY NO UP suggested by them!!!!). JUst like LTK said it not their problems anyway they ten over thousands pay is just a portion of their gross income. They got other sourse of incomes, so y shld they bother, these inceases is just peanut to them!

Govt. is the major share holder of DBS, so the Govt. must take care of the bank.
MiniBond holders you die you business, so sad.

Singapore has many issues pertaining to Financial aspects.
But does the Opposition, like WP have Financial Experts ?
If not, is its Credibility an issue in Financial aspects?
I mean, how can it effectively advise the People on Financial aspects or just comment on Financial aspects?

Its sad that those capable, knowledgeable have not yet step forward to support the Opposition to help build a stronger more credible Opposition.

‘Sad’ is an understatement. I call it Pathetic.

No wonder so many do not support the opposition.
What can opposition do, really, in the coming election, if they remain the same? To sound nice, I should say, they can do many many .
Yibah Yibah Untooneh!!!

All the fiascos and the poor response in turn, reflects very badly on the PAP leadership . It is a great wake up call for the citizens who voted for them.
I like the terms used by Sze Hian, mis-selling, reasonable, suitable, low risk, high risk.

I can relate to those words, see the relevance when one applies it to the PAP leadership and their MPs.

The PAP have been mis-selling their talents and capabilities. Ayam Brand to say the least ! Can anyone see leadership ?
Did any PAP MP speak up for the investors ? Can these MPs claim they are suitable and reasonable in representing the people ?
Hope the general public can see the high risk in having 82 PAP members in parliament. On the other hand the PAP knows how to take low risk by avoiding taking responsiblities.

Talking about risks and hindsights….allow me to digress a bit…

TW’s story of Ah Bian and alleged collusion by the almost ENTIRE set of ministries under the control of 1 man signals to me the importance of Independent check and balance mechanism.

Allegedly, Bian able to control so many officials by getting hold of their “bar bing”s . Reward is among the most potent and powerful POWER when it comes to people managing. In TW’s story, Bian’s alleged method of control is using Reward and ‘Bar Bing’. What a potent combo.

If indeed Bian’s story is real, what can a human learn from this story?

Absolute power can corrupt absolutely when there is no other mechanism to check and question the leader.

Even the chief investigation officer is alleged to be under his control. For example, it was alleged that international anti-corruption agency gave info to the TW chief investigation officer about possible ‘black water’ washing by bian. He being a loyal servant, leaked this info to Bian and gave him time to react.

See SCV channel 52 and 54 for more as I cannot explain entirely the TW story.
I hope people will learn something important from TW story. Unbeknownst to the naive, many things affect us DIRECTLY. sigh….how can pathetically apathetic people understand this ?

FI give Disclosure?
But IF their competitors able to Anticipate their moves how?
lim, your final answer please.

‘These are explained in the first page or second page , that these are structured products and it’s in bold print, that you can lose everything.

‘So MAS has never said that these are risk-free products or low-risk products or safe products.’”

Show this first page or second page to aunties and uncles who may not be financially literate.

One look at their faces and after listening to a few conversational pieces from these aunties and uncles, you can pretty well size up the investment profile of this group.

Surely, financial experts (consultants, etc) can detect this even without much training by simply engaging them in some simple talk about their risk appetite. Or somehow, they have chosen to forget how to detect this.

Perhaps and yes, this is really how the real world works. Ladies and gentlemen, you better work hard for yourself also if the world is working against you.

The more i read into this, and i may be wrong, but it seems to me that the MAS and the Ministry are doing what government depts are well-known to do: Cover their backsides first.

They are checking if they failed in regulating (being too complacent), and if they did, who can they blame? Who’ll be the scapegoat? That explains why they have this “i wash my hands off this” attitude.

Like the guy who received extra cane strokes – it was the legal clerk.

Like Mas Selamat – the gurkha guards.

Like NKF – Richard Yong and Durai.

MAS and Finance Ministry want to show that “its not their fault” this has happened, but they are now trying to do the next best thing.

I like Lucky Tan’s post in his blog – this problem didnt come up in Malaysia. Because their regulators looked at the prospectus, didnt understand what the product was, and thus didn’t allow for it to be sold.

that the problem exist in HK and Singapore goes to show that both cities are fighting to be a more “open” financial systems and compete with each other. also note that DBS getting a high profile on this matter in both cities. Who owns DBS?? Hmmm….

From LHK’s response, it’s pretty clear where the Govt stance is on this one. The banks’. Rather than taking the banks to task for very clearly mis-selling their products, they are saying, the banks can go ahead with their business-as-usual-approach of targetting cash-rich but largely ignorant retirees… just make sure that now you have a supervisor next to the RM, and get the old folks to bring along their family member etc etc… so in future the public can’t blame the banks because now all the backsides covered. Whatever happened to MAS’s role to REGULATE the industry? Considering the fact that this has most likely been an accident waiting to happen, why can’t our very credible and smart leaders forsee it?

Our minister Mr LHK has just dispalyed the characteristic of the PAP – speaking lots of words, pointing to every aspect of the regulations and standard practices of MAS, but not tackling the problem at all.

One good example is the high cost of living, a hot topic of discussion for the past two years. But not much have been done. Prices keep going up day after day even in today’s bad economy. The revision of GST to 7% has been debated on many times but our government defended it tightly. Followed by inflation. Even in bad times like now, electric tariff still have to go up by 22%. But about 6 months ago when one of our minister was asked in a dialogue session if Singapore would go into a recession as the American economy has just fallen into a recession. And he answered that Singapore will not go into a recession as we have strong infrastructure to ride through the storm and our GIC has diverse investments in various countries to cushion any recession. Well, what he said did not happen. We are in a recession now.

You see, our government just do not listen to people on the ground. They operate this country just like running a company – need to make money. In regardless of the money is coming from foreign or local – Singapore need to have big sum of reserve. Has this huge reserve done the people of Singapore any good? Even now when many people loss their hard earn money in bonds sold by our banks and can no longer sustain 3 meals and a roof over their heads, help is still far far away. While our ministers are pocketing millions of dollars as salary because they are claimed to be top brains in the country, cannot do anything for a man on the street that is struggling to put food from hand to mouth.

All these are not new. So do you think they can do much about the minibonds and give you money back when the bus fare has been increased 3 times within 18 months and they don’t want to do anything about it? Even if they do give you money back for your losses, it will be a very small sum. And as usual, they will claim it back many folds in terms of increase in other necessities.

And thus, its little wonder the first thing LHK says in parliament “Dont politicise this”… They are trying to AVOID the link back to the Singapore govt.

34) aygee on October 21st, 2008 1.46 pm
No choice, he have to protect his payroll master.

31) aygee on October 21st, 2008 1.29 pm
Who’ll be the next scapegoat?
maybe now they are trying to pick another scapegoat btw LHK and GCT, sally sally lom chiam pak!

33) Singlish

- there is a pap word to this: MANDATE!
- “we have the people’s MANDATE to govern, to buy, to sell, to blame, to sue, to turn a deaf ear, to treat you like the fool you have chosen to be”
- 66.6% of you ought to be ashamed of yourselves for giving this govt a blank cheque to sign our lives away.
- see, your own loved ones are suffering because of you.
- please remember all these the next time you make that ‘X’.

MANDATE! ya wait until all the men dead, tan koo koo, now I know everytime they talk about investments, they would always say at least 10, 20 years, why? becos you people cannot question them during these 10, 20 years so they can do what they like with the peoples monies. . . . hahaha. . . i thot singaporeans are supposed to be smart people, sumua bodo kenna conned.

it’s all Chee Soon Juan’s and JBJ’s fault la. See, that’s what our enlightened PM warned us about! The Gahmen has to spend time fixing the opposition they weren’t paying attention to the whole Minibond and Mas Selemat fiasco! See la see la. Talk Democracy somemore la!

#11 Disillussioned

“Well the right time came and it was left to someone with NTUC connections to mobilise the masses against an injustice that aaffected many S’poreans.”

Guess what happened to SDP when they tried to do the same…. without a permit? WP, take a different approach, applied for permit, was rejected and guess what? It wasn’t even protest! Just a cycling event.

Don’t tell me you don’t know how Singapore laws are selectively applied. Esp when it comes to opposition, be it “responsible” or “confrontational”.

While all these investigations are going on (hopefully it gets resolved with something for everybody, particularly for those proven to have been mislead and affected~hope is the word). I have these questions in mind for those who still wishes to do future investments.

1) Do you people still trust and have faith in all these so call investment expert institutions such as MS, Citi, GMS …etc?

2) How much regulations is deemed enough to safe guard any form of future investments?

I am expecting some form of announcement to halt investments that utilizes CPF funds to prevent a repeat of history. So making this assumption that there is such announcement some time down the line (may be beginning of 2009 or even earlier?), do you think this is a good move by the CPF board or it is good to maintain status quo?

Are we not supposed to TRUST and BELIEVE whatever they say and claim ?
I thought they are never wrong and super perfect until cannot the perfecto?

Do we really need strong evidence when deciding to take what information is sent to our eyes and ears ?

I have no idea.

Btw, 3rd world Thailand manage to indict their most richest and powerful man. If one respects thai law, one would accept that Thaksin is now a criminal and justice has been served, to an extent. Another 3rd world Philipines also indicted Marcos.
The commonality between these 2 3rd worlds = Freedom of Speech and vibrant Democracy.

Iraq under Sadam could never have indicted Sadam even though it is rumored to be a democracy (authoritarian type). People can claim what they want when they are hold the power and control the media.

TW, the USA of Asia is also very close to indict their President.

S.Korea have indicted some top leaders as well.

The commonality among all the 4 Asian countries 3rd worlds and 1st worlds = a certain healthy level of basic Freedom of Speech and vibrant Democracy.

How quick learners are Singaporeans?

TW people understands more about Singapore than many many singaporeans.

sigh… SCV channel 49,52,54. Educational channels. I hope these channels don’t vanish soon (due to whatever reasons ;) ).

So, should you TRUST and TRUST and TRUST without 1st QUESTIONING and QUESTIONING and some more QUESTIONING before ACCEPTING information or you wanna just BELIEVE? Look at the 10 000 investors crying their hearts out now…

SAD. Pathetic. Time to continue saving money for your old age medicals , transport costs, use of electricity-based equipment like pace maker, heart refibrilator, etc. Work. work harder. Mc Donalds is open for you. Welcome to your life.

MAS need to address these issues to restore public confidence to invest in financial products.
1.The FIs must be regulated. Ths minister cannot say that FIs are ENCOURAGED to be responsible. What if they are not?You cannot leave them to do what they want.There are responsible ones but there are desperate ones. The desperate FIs, with the collaboration of the salespeople, will resort to unethical practices.You have eyes to see what is happening .You can see the insurance agents at roadshows are doing. If you leave them to self regulate this will happen.
The products by FIs must be stringently checked. The products must have a predefined target market or markets. If they are sold outside these markets without good reasons the FIs must be held responsible. Like what the minister said there is no ” one size fits all’ rule similarly there is no ‘one size fits all’ product.
2.The advisers must comply with steps of section 27 of the FAA. Product advice or product selling must be banned otherwise section 27 is a dead wood and useless.Product selling or pushing is the cause of this current fiasco. The minister cannot say that section 27 is ENCOURAGED but if you cannot comply or don’t know how you can be excused. This is rubbish..There is no 2 ways about it. Which adviser will put his or her neck in the noose of section 27 when they can avoid it and can put the blame on the client when things go wrong? Section 27 is a must compliance for all advisers.
3.MAS must be proactive and must be seen enforcing all the relevant ACTs of law and not let them be white elephants and cry over regulation. Self regulation is no regulation for those irresponsible FIs .
With this tripartite collaboration fair dealing outcome is then possible otherwise
another fiasco is awaiting to happen. This time will the life insurance industry.

Observer,
“1) Do you people still trust and have faith in all these so call investment expert institutions such as MS, Citi, GMS …etc?”

You forget the greatest and smartest investment experts of all, Temasek Holding and GIC ! They must be the smartest since they investing billion dollars, which some borne out of CPF , reserves , and smart to hide under secrecy and rationality (Impact of loss and win cannot tell, how much writeoff already done ?).
Fancy old fart telling that it may takes 30 years before investment harvest, that alone is the greatest Investment wisdom !

Our government is the greatest gambler of all. They already lost billion dollars of gamble even before the gambling business of IR start. Worse, it look like they are addicted and still want to invest some more without recouping their loss first (Anyway, will they care, it is not even their loss and not their own pocket money).
Just a addicted gambler who lost big sum of money that have to be accountable some day, the gambler has no choice but to continue to gamble in the hope to regain his previous loss, otherwise the last resort is to jump down the MRT due to inability to pay back the loss even in his lifetime.

Look, addicted gambler never learn lesson.
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_292713.html

Hope that online citizen write article on Whether Temasek Holding is a addicted gambler. The reason I find that Temask give to continue to invest during this bad time, even with respect to obscene and lackluster performance of investment over last years, is no different from addicted gambler. Gambling is about luck, and if one is highly skilled, one can still cheat in gambling casino, but in investment one can’t cheat the market force and reality.

How is gambling related to these lehman saga and FI ?
Due to the way MAS’ heckcare attitude and FI given so much free way to come more creatively sophisticated product with superb marketing and rhetoric, the investors have unconciously has become a gambler themselves, that is to gamble whether to put their stake into the bank’s product even though bank’s reputation is good.

No doubt to me, nowsady investment is synonmous to gambling.

44) Daniel on October 21st, 2008 11.03 pm

I have never regarded them savvy investors in financial products compared to those I have listed. The institutions I listed existed long before them yet they too failed in many cases and big time. So what to expect from a group of interns turned “professionals” who get their advice from other employed $$$$$$$$ “professionals”.

In hindsight, it is easy to make all the right moves and assess the risk. Let’s hope the lessons are learned albeit this is at a very high cost (I learned mine back in 1982). However, we humans are strange animals. We tend to forget our wounds from time to time. Don’t we? Did the 1985 recession, 1997 financial crisis, 2001 stock market crisis, 2003 SARs incident makes us more diligent?

This may sound cynical, I like to ask did those investors (risk known or unknown, mislead, savvy, not savvy) make their investments decision if they have read the advise of W. Buffet in his 2002 annual report about derivatives trading and take it to heart or the recent May 2007 OECD report (see link below)

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/49/45/39354012.pdf

Or, should some good Samaritans be as diligent as financial market watch dog are being aware of this and sounded the early warnings? You think then when the global economy is in such a high, people will heed these warnings? Of course this is in hindsight again. I just took a few minutes to search through the web to find out whether there were adequate warnings out in the market by credible organizations or personality and understand conceptually what derivatives trade is all about. And lo and behold I found two of the many credible early warning reports. Those banks has got to know this right? Did they warn those investors (if and if they knew they were investing in derivatives?) If my early years in investing had taught me anything is to stay clear of things or products that I have zero knowledge or absolutely not clear of what I am getting myself into.

As sympathetic I am to those (some are my HK friends too as I have found out) who are truly being mislead and hope they should get something back, better if they can at least get back 80 percent if not their entire invested sum ~ it is going to be a very ugly fight. I don’t believe any mandate will solve the issues in this case without a tough battle. MAS is not god in this case likewise HKMA in Hong Kong. The biggest culprit in this case is Lehman and those Regulators in USA. And you know what, the biggest winners at the end of the day, those Law firms. I believe there will be a host of litigations within months if no acceptable resolution is in place. Unfortunately, I believe there will be no quick fix for this debacle.

Adding salt to the wounds, with the recession beginning to take hold GLOBALLY, it is even going to be a harder time ahead for every body not just the affected investors. I am interested to know how the government is going to help the citizenry weather through this recession that may last till end of 2009 or further (there are still a lot of unknown black holes in the Financial Market such as the trillion CDS). The least they can do is to contain or curb the unnecessary price hike on the basic necessities and at the same time hopefully they listen to my early plea to allow every Singaporean to early withdrawal of our CPF money for a cap of 25K over a 3 year period to help ease the cash strapped citizenry who may be out of work because of retrenchment or other reasons. This is not too much to ask for (right?) from those “Disciplined and Hard working people who built all this”. Sound familiar? It is the reply from MM to VB.

Steven,

U r right, totally lost touch since gct days. And like to talk down on people, i scholar so smarter, who r u? u know what? I’m worried for them. BTW, i hv not vote for a long time, everywhere is grc, u didn’t notice? The next ge, i can beg even more, every one with one super old bird minister as anchor man, like usa olypmic swimming team with michael phelps.

Hi Very kek Sim, at least I can tell myself that my entire famly and I voted for a group of young rookie politicians over our beloved PM Lee. in the last GE. Why, most people may ask, am I mad? For your information, I was truly blessed to goto some of the best schools in Singapore and was educated overseas and am currently a banker in a stable bank. But I am no elitist. My parents were poor folks who taught me the values of hard work. They were not highly educated and speak little English but they taught me that how a society is judged (as civilised or not) is often measured by how it takes care of its poorest and most under-privileged. In our case here in Singapore, it is NOT! Singapore has changed, PAP too!

The financial industry players are very ‘chek ark .The RMs are chek ark. The insurance agents are chek ark. They all have flushed away their conscience, ethics and honesty into the toilet bowl when they leave for work each morning

Maybe one way to prevent this form happening again ts for consumer banks to remain just banks for consumers. Profit from just deposits and loans that’s all. Leave the invesments and products to the real investment banks.

Its is understandable that banks do what they do is for only one thing. Profit. But selling these products to their own deposirors not only causes a conflict of interest but confidence and monetary losses to their own depositors.

But of course this would be impossible seeing how profit driven these banks are.

Then they should seperate the banking and investment/sales entities altogether. Do not place them under the same roof where the depositors go to do bank transactions. HOUSE THESE PEOPLE IN ANOTHER BUILDING OR OFFICE OR WHATEVER. As long as they are unable to physically targets their so called “fishes”. Do not place them at the branches.

If a customer wants to invest their money. They will go to them. Not the other way round. Bank tellers at the counters should just do what is required to process a customer’s transaction. Not drop comments whether subtle or not saying their money could earn more if you invest in this or that. Its just a cheap way of using psychology on them.

Key words like capital protection, gurantee, higher yield are just some of the words these RMs or FAs use to pique our interest. After that is achieved, only good points are mentioned, risks involed tend to be glossed over, Financial jargon changes so frequently that even experienced individuals find it hard to keep up.

Their main objective is to make the sale. Not care for your well being. This is a critical point we have to remember. After they got your signature on that dotted line. You are no longer of any use or concern to them. Their main concern is the next fish to fry. Unless you got more cash of course. Sad to say, this is the reality of it all, regardless of how these people try to defend themselves.

Propectuses should be translated into a simpler form where an ordinary person understands. This way, there should be no cause for misrepresentation.

MAS must moniter all such products sold by these banks. Initiative has to be taken. Not wait and see then follow what other countries do. From what I’ve seen Singapore has been doing alot of that recently.

juz wondering…is the world being led by a bunch of fools? fools are monkeys and those abled but who don’t want to come out and led do not want to be called donkeys?

49) Fredrick on October 22nd, 2008 4.16 pm
—————————————————————-

Agree with you.
The system is such that businesses have the money power to engage great lawyers and contract specialists to craft a nice contract that can protect the businessmen such that when a naive consumer signs the dotted line, after ‘creative’ selling tactics is used by salesmen, they have actually signed to sell their soul, so-to-speak.

Believe me, there could be another round of Fiasco sometime later unless there is a Union for Consumers to make changes to the way business is done. There should be a way to ensure that contracts must be clear and easy to understand by all targeted consumers. Else, its simply unfair as salesmen can use tactics to make naive people sign a contract containing clauses not good for them. Its called business ETHICS. Which system ensures business is done ETHICALLY?

TOC – can you guys change the phot of LHK?

Everytime i visit this thread i get a fright – worse if it’s night time.
can change or not?

@comment #49 Which system ensures business is done ethically?

NONE. The closest you will get is that everything as trackable as possible – purchase orders can be traced back to other documents, invoices, receipts, etc. Staff can be tracked via NRIC # alone, or a combination like by family name and nationality. Everything as trackable and as accountable as possible. That system is known as the once-overhyped ISO systems.

BTW, I posted some info for investors and would-be investors to my blog. Take a look if you wish—> MyQute.com Sorry – blog half-baked and always under construction.

i know this remark is lame, but can someone remove his photo… this man is really ugly..

If you start rationalise that busineeses cannot be ethical and therefore why we should be ethical. This is the premise that insurance agents use. If I don’t cheat this consumer anyway he will be cheated by another agent so why not i cheat him first and cut off the other agent. So eventually you find only cheaters in the market.
The good news is that there were some who quit the RM job of malpractices.
In other words we can still find some ethical ones.
Like I posted the 95/5% principle., 95% are cheats and 5% are ethical.
The question is where to find the5%?

Well, insurance agents or financial planner or what ever terms you can call them they are still SALESMAN. So naturally salesman just do salesman talk lah.

But the big difference here is that the terms, conditions descriptions are all written by lawyers or at least vetted by legal department before putting out to the public. Unfortunately the people selling the products are not lawyers themselves. So cannot really explain the entire contract in layman term to the consumer. So is it the fault of the salesman? You be the judge.

But when anything happen, the salesman will most probably set aside and get the legal people to tell you that the contract does not cover this at that b’cos blah blah blah according to the legal language in the contract. So do you think it is fair to the consumer that when the company wants to sell the product, they get the salesman to give you the sales talk. But when you want to make a claim, they get the lawyers to tell you this cannot that cannot… Why can’t the salesman follow the case through? The excuse given is that sales people are not lawyers so that cannot tell you why is that and this. Hahaha..

So is the law set up to protect the rich? You be the judge again. Singapore is a place where we talk about justice. Our ministers swear by this system and use this system effectively too.

This is SINGAPORE.

These million dollars Ministers of the PAP govt. only actively act on our case if election time is close. They care most for their pockets…and kiasi to loose their seats and a million dollars in salary. These guys are living in ivory towers and dont have a heart for the citizen– every damn things have increase…
Why PAP govt invested billions of dollars of our money in those foreign bankrupted Ang Mo Banks and yet they claimed that it was good investment. I dont understand…

I say PAP also means “Poor also Pay”…..

The distributors of products should conduct talks and seminars for the public to educate them. For example, when there is a series of new and similar financial products, invite a speaker (an expert who is not linked with the distributor or the issuer of the product) to give a talk and have a Q&A after that.

Before that, work with the newspapers here to write some articles, and promote the upcoming talks. That not only begins to give the public an idea of the products, it allows them to prepare to ask questions. It is a win-win situation for all. Educate the public, promotes the product.

#59. Good opinions that I can “boost”!

Para 1. How many of you have signed something….like an insurance contract without reading it first?

Para 2. I am in the opinion that if a company or financial instituition wants to promote their products by educating their customers, they will have do much better than articles!
WHY? Cos many people hate reading! Pass them a prospectus, and they will bring it home unread till may be a few months later (or may be never even read it!)

3. Even a face-to-face meeting to answer some questions would be difficult because not every question can be explained in a way that investors can understand.
As such another person will have to tackle the question so as not to hold up the Q and A.

4. “Surrender” and “Withdraw” may mean the same thing but to some investors they don’t know. Have a glossary of the most commonly used “investing” terms first. And that means INVESTORS MUST LEARN TO LOVE READING! Learn to love learning!

If MAS forces every insurance agent to be competent , honest and follow a prescribed steps to take then the danger of having lousy deal is reduced. MAS must also make them responsible for any out come.
Currently, it is the law of the jungle.
Consumers have to protect themselves against the predators who are every where.
Reading the prospectors or benefit illustration of life insurance products doesn’t help very much. It makes you responsible for own action. Buying a car has less chance of going wrong. if there are defects there is warranty. Financial products expect you to be an expert. Don’t be naive. Professors, doctors, CPA need help and what makes you think the man in the street don’t need.The sellers are pushing away their responsibility; MAS is helping them; ministers said Caveat emtpor is fair.
I think having an honest,competent adviser is important . With MAS helping to make sure these advisers are competent and honest will keep malpractices under control. MAS must enforce the laws and come down hard on errant practitioners ..

This might not be new to most people out there:

There is a common say that two kinds of people deserve to go to hell after they are dead:
1. The Bankers
2. The Lawyer

I think this is especially truth in Singapore. Most importantly, you can find this 2 trade of people inside our Ruling party. Coincidence? Maybe ……

Psst. Isn’t it supposed to be ‘response’?