what is the meaning of saying this? i not very clear?

means we need to find a person as educated as we are is it?

but i wish i am not educated so that when my investment lost money i can get back money.

it is better to be rich but uneducated.

No one size fits all . . . . neither do one educational qualifications determines future outcomes.

There are cases where graduate parents fail to produce graduate children and many many examples of non-graduate parents producing children graduating with sought after degrees plus the most valued informal educational experience of humility, hard work, thrift, honor and thankfulness.

How about that!

I think his comments are bordering on grave and debaseful insults.

Being a graduate or not does not equate to intelligence, nor does it have a non-spurious effect on the educational achievements of their children.

One may be intelligent but poor.

He should retract those words, because they are not words to be used decently.

It means that in LKY’s mind, non-graduates are sh!t and dirt that have no place in “his” Utopia – Singapore, and if he can and have all his means, he will make non-graduates slaves of graduates…

I wonder whether his fuckking stupid parents were graduates or not?????

i hope that if generally the public feel that he has said something not good then he should make an apology even if he is the mm.

human make mistake and if a mistake is really being make, an apology should be make also.

maybe singaporean should take an online poll and see what are results.

I wonder how many graduates have communicated with the MM when this “truth” did dawn upon them???

Honestly, I find this insulting. My folks had only primary school education but understood the values of hard work. They never had the opportunities to further pursue their studies cause their families were poor and they had to work in an early age to help support their families. BOTH ARE NOT GRADUATES! But theyr groomed my sisters and I. One graduated from NUS – Biz Admin, One graduated from UNSW – Engineering, and me from Melbourne Uni – Finance! What can LKY say about this?! Rubbish!

many do not continue further to get higher degrees simply because studying sucks! if all bachelor degree people continue studying, all will get MBA if they want and all will get PhD if they desire. Maybe not the 1st try but they will get it IF they suka.

yeah so many people do not agree with what he say. i wonder those pap members will agree and not agree with what he say.

those pap members do not need to leave a comment here even if they disagree with the mm.

most important inside their heart they must speak the truth.

yeah all people can get phd also if they want.

university nowadays also act like business most important must have money to pay the fees.

utter drivel plain bollocks.

people ought to know if you’re way past your prime.

you lost votes because the point you made was awfully silly, quite plainly sir, if that is true then sarah pahlin is the next queen of england.

I think MM Lee is equating Intelligence + Intelligence = Very Intelligent. How does one equate to being intelligent? One may be intelligent but he may not be wise. IQ doesn’t = EQ also. I have know some with high IQ but very low EQ. I mean those very intelligent, their common sense are very poor and show no respect for people around them.
Basic manners like respect for others, respecting people’s rights, listen and not interrupting while people are speaking, showing care and concern for the under-privileged etc are all essence to a more kind and caring society. But it seems like I don’t see it in a very intelligent person leh, though there are few exception. Some are good in sports while some may be good in studies. But I would think that a sporting and sporty person can endure the ultimate life’s race. Intelligence will fade and be gone but a sports person will live longer maybe.
Money is not everything, it is when people overcome and reap success in their hard work and not give up!
What MM Lee is subjective. Did he remember he lost our money in SuZhou industrial park, GIC investment in CItiBank, UBS etc … Where is the compassion to help our local Singaporean? If his EQ is high enough, he should think of other’s welfare first and not his own self interest.

right on . Absolutely logical reply.
How many really prefer mugging the books whole day long and not earn money working or playing games or go clubbing or attend Hong Lim park talks?
How many born with silver spoons allow them study until old old and all expenses paid to live and study abroad without worry for $$?

So many actually are PhD holders. They choose not to only.

So, tomorrow Hong Lim Park got talks or not? Dam boring studying siah. Wanna have some destress at HLP. please let me know if TOC going there, thanks.

These statements are neither Asian Values nor Universal Values.

Wonder What Values These Are? . . .

The one place where a man ought to get a square deal is in a courtroom, be he any color of the rainbow, but people have a way of carrying their resentments right into a jury box. As you grow older, you’ll see white men cheat black men every day of your life, but let me tell you something and don’t you forget it – whenever a white man does that to a black man, no matter who he is, how rich he is, or how fine a family he comes from, that white man is trash. ~Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird, Chapter 23, spoken by the character Atticus

The more I study, the less I know. The less I know, the more I study. Chasing paper qualifications is very different from being educated. There is no university dishing out a PhD on kindness, civic consciousness, compassion, the pursuit of justice, peace and equality for humanity. Interestingly it is often the people who are supposed to be ‘educated’ – in the developed world, who make all these rules and practices for trade etc which makes the poor poorer, the hungry hungrier. We spend our money on Louis Vuitton instead of feeding the hungry children in Africa. It is the educated people who know how to launder money, sell drugs everywhere in the world, use people as slaves for work, sexual exploitation. It is the educated people who know how to use money they don’t have to buy things they don’t need. It is the educated people who know how to raise house prices so high people pay all their lives just to have shelter. I am seriously considering letting my little girl learn just to grow flowers. It is something my PhD husband and his postgraduate wife talk about – letting our little girl be as untainted as possible from this corrupt world. When all she knows is to grow flowers and be surrounded by all their beauty, colours and softness, ahhh…all that fresh air and sunshine will do her a whole lot more good than stuck in an office bitching and backbiting, scheming and plotting. Trouble is she is not able to eat the flowers and they can’t keep her warm.

11) seaporter on October 25th, 2008 12.25 am I think MM Lee is equating Intelligence + Intelligence = Very Intelligent. ………..
—————————————————

There is this sporean gal in USA by name of , lets call her, ANA..BOLA whose parents are super high IQ (like doctors or lecturers like that) and their daughter became famous porn star. ‘Made’ in USA if you know wtf I mean ;P

#12

They should be treated as the personal opinions of a human being. Nothing more nothing less.

Remember how he blasted ken kwek on tv in 2006? someone should ask him the same questions now.

“… but slowly it dawned on them…” who is this “them” he is referring to? Did he speak to them personally? what are their names? what studies is he basing his remarks upon? and especially, what is he basing his theory of “assortative mating” on? Did he conduct any proper studies on this? What pure arrogance in calling it the truth. He makes a mockery of the meritocracy we’re supposed to be founded on. He makes a mockery of the hardwork of the students and teachers. As if university entry is based largely on your parent’s degrees.

Nine Types of Intelligence

1. Naturalist Intelligence (“Nature Smart”)

2. Musical Intelligence (“Musical Smart”)

3. Logical-Mathematical Intelligence (Number/Reasoning Smart)

4. Existential Intelligence
Sensitivity and capacity to tackle deep questions about human existence, such as the meaning of life, why do we die, and how did we get here.

5. Interpersonal Intelligence (People Smart”)

6. Bodily-Kinesthetic Intelligence (“Body Smart”)

7. Linguistic Intelligence (Word Smart)

8. Intra-personal Intelligence (Self Smart”)

9. Spatial Intelligence (“Picture Smart”)

I know a number of formerly poor students of ‘poor’ standing who worked as hard as heck to give themselves an equal or greater standing to those who are naturally adept to our education systems. He basically just insulted everyone great singapore story of the singapore ’spirit’. Can the hypocrite please shut up.

Hmmm….I wonder how many MPs, Ministers’ parents are both graduates? I am a graduate. My wife is not. I have 3 children. All university graduates. And come to think of it, it was mostly my wife’s effort cos I was mostly out there tending to the mills.

Luckily for my family, we are not betta splenden or some African cichlids.

Didn’t he also say that he had to pay all his ministers “market rate” or else they will leave to join Lehman Brothers, Merrill et al? ;) cos if he didn’t, he will get low calibre people who will lose you billions of dollars?

Wait a minute. We DID pay “market rate”. But we still lose billions (thanks GIC!)

I guess his idea of an intelligent graduate is someone who went to Oxford for Bachelors and then Stanford for Masters. That is someone he can invite personally for a tea party to join the PAP.

And can still be misled by a degree mill’s website.

http://www.parliament.gov.sg/AboutUs/Org-MP-CV-ChanSooSen.htm

http://www.straitstimes.com/ST%2BForum/Story/STIStory_294178.html

In these bleak times, can I have whatever he’s smoking? I sure could do with some feel good :)

Aiyayaya…Time to retire and go kneating, fishing… Find something useful to do that tickles your brain. Change your doctor(s), those chlorine must have bleached dead your brain cells. I think even your staunched supporters will have to hide their face, scratch their heads and put on a perplexing smile. What a sweeping insulting statement to make from a man that has weathered so much in life.

What exactly is the message he is sending out to the people who have no degrees? Is it getting so bad that we are being steered into creating castes that do not inter marry?

So much for the People’s Action.Some people now think that the people’s action is exactly what he perceives, when he clearly has not understood the opinion of the people, they everyday citizen who the government should be responsible to. Incredible?Maybe.

As Loyola has said…its just a comment(maybe a naive/ill-informed one) of an individual.

LKY, go fly kite!

Haha!!! What a joke… old and outdated…. The 15% elites you need to produce more babies. The remaining 85%, perhaps, you should rethink whether you should stay in Singapore or make more babies. I think there is no plan for you child’s university education.

The awful truth is that he’s still embarrassing us with his ludicrous views and remarks.

The worse thing is that he seems to find it funny.

singapore is bound to be facing dooms day to have just a once highly respected leader uttering such a bad insult to those folks who has been supporting him all these 40+ years, so I bet those younger generation would have much more to comment here since many of you like everyone else comes from non-graduate parents slopping themselves to bring you up to be someone respectable in the face of society. Game over!

his system created the problem today where we dont have enough places in uni for Singaporeans. now he turns around and laughs and say it’s because grads were marrying non-grads. ?!

Darwins theory. That why one marries a woman who is better (top student) than oneself even if the woman is ugly and older. the success is enough to make sure that your progeny marry ugly but intelligent woman. In the end you produce beings with no love, no moral authority, graciousness and so smart they do not have common sense. Welcome to 1984 of the first world

Its a pity and sad when man outlives his usefulness and still belives he is still relevant.

and if such comment is coming from one of his appointed goodoo ministers I can understand, my god! right from his own mouth, how do the entire citizens of singapore would have that kind of confident in you anymore, not to mention our entire cpf life savings are in your hand now as we may not know what could be the next worse thing you could come up with soon!

Pardon me for this blunt one.

A secondary school dropout, I am ready to be flame by anyone, even one that never attended any formal schooling at all.

I have NEVER find MM Lee Kuan Yew clever right up to now.

And dare I say here, many will agree with me sooner or later.

Just look at the unhappiness or the lack of happiness in us all, SINGAPOREANS.

That’s it.

patriot

pray very hard may God have mercy on PAP now, not only you have lost, you lose real bad now.

I am disgusted that a leader of a first world, civilized, high tech, modern, cosmopolitan society could have actually have said something like that.

I absolutely abhor any form of discrimination whatsoever and this takes the cake..

poor mr lee
even if what you say is true, i’ll still marry someone i love, and love my stupid children too. I hope you didn’t force your children to marry clever people they don’t love, just so you can have clever grandchildren.

maybe he feels that after ridding off all opp parties, there will be no one left to challenge him in the next GE, thats why he dares to say whatever he wish. Don’t forget that the real power comes from the citizens of singapore and worst still, his remark could also insult all the folks in the entire world.

My father is a Univ grad and my mom an O level student. They worked hard and raised my sister and I well. My sister read Law and I am a doctor. MM should just shut up and stop insulting people.

old man there shows himself for who he is.

no scientific basis for that, no self respecting biologists or geneticist will utter a statement like that.

and no social scientist too.

For statements like this i expect to be coming from Homer, not Harry.

Kudos to LKY for his eugenics speech – discrimination no doubt!

I guess his idea of an intelligent graduate is someone who went to Oxford for Bachelors and then Stanford for Masters. That is someone he can invite personally for a tea party to join the PAP. – Ah Kao (#18)

Wah.. MP Chan Soo Sen was the CEO of Suzhou Industrial Park..

Mr Tan Kin Lian makes a far better suggestion on mating.

http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/even-cupid-has-to-adapt/

See for yourself.

How abt President’s Scholar, the son of a butcher, a humble chap who wants to be a Principal?
It is not right for man to try to be godlike. Life is far more unpredictable than even this.

New criteria for U intake soon: parent must be graduate !!!!!!!!!

wtf. Is he a social Nazi or something? Eugenics in Singapore is NOT something we want! And saying “that’s the way it is” – it’s like declaring that there are clever genes and there are stupid genes. And clever genes have to be mixed and stupid genes have to be left to die off on their own.

Unbelievable. And to think that the man who founded Singapore believes in this.

Yet again he thinks he is “GOD” on this earth. I think its about time he leaves the governmment.

He is heading towrds senility!! he must be cos he talks rubbish. Very sad for his son. My deepest sympathy to him for having a father who does not know his time is up. Thinking he is suffering from attention deficiency syndrome, he needs attention. He is Singapore’s biggest joke of the year. Funny the Lee’s think they are the superior race in singapore and the world.

Poor sons and daughter having to try to live up to his expectations. Well we are do not fear death cos we having done nothing. Deep down he fears death cos he knows what awaits him in the next world. Everyone is waiting for him. You and I know who! Hope he does too.

I am back in twlight zone.

Scientifically, nobody truly understands the issue of eugenics and IQ. I do not begrudge MM Lee’s statement of his *belief*, but to state it as “truth” and then laughing about how people refuse to believe him is just crass.

Even if it were true, why graduates? Does he also believe in the perfection of the Singapore education system? That all people who makes it to a university education automatically have great IQ and all those who do not make it simply do not have high (enough) IQ?

Again, assuming what he states is true and “enforced”, think about proportionality. Assume that 10% of the population make it into university. Assume again, these 10% inter-marry and produce children, which by MM Lee’s logic would make *better* university candidates. Assuming again, these 10% magically achieve the 2.1 replacement rate for population sustainability. Would you agree with me that by MM Lee’s warped logic, these 450,000 people would have isolated their gene pool for good?

I am glad that Singaporeans on the whole aren’t buying into this idea. I am also glad he lost votes if indeed he did. Frankly, I think it is about time Tanjong Pagar does him a favor and votes him into “proper” retirement.

Education ? or getting uneducated ? to learn and unlearn later on to realise that we need Foreign talents because Singaporeans are not bright enough.

Education is just a paper formatility, to be able to understand systems and environments and the effect it has on the people that are in it. Thats called a sound education.

If the education system taught us about the countries that have sound and effective systems, I am sure we would have many who would use their vote wisely.

Poor formulation of policies procreates to produce mass abundance of Quantity with little or no quality

There are lots of educated paper people, who become uneducated by following the pipe piper blindly.

I saw this clip on the news many years back in Singapore, it said the highest number of ladies that go for a abortion are degree holders. and there was this professor or doctor saying its a big dissapointment.

I don’t know if any one recalls this….. my point is that it has nothing to do with being a degree holder

Political science at work ?

I believe the correct term for the sentiment expressed here is “eugenics”.

And I’ll add my two cents: None of the friends I have who’ve graduated from university have parents who have both graduated from university. Some of them don’t even have ONE parent who has done so.

My parents were not grads and yet i made it to Uni. Does the state look down on my parents ? What kinds of values are we propagating for society ? This is such an elitist statement and totally way out of line. Worse, MM Lee gives the impression that what he says is gospel truth – that it ’slowly it dawned on them’ – the graduates….

the sinister giggle at the end of his comment is worse than the comment itself.

- why then, did he bring in fw workers without degrees? It opens up the opportunity that goes against the ‘assortative mating’ ideology?

- an apology to non-graduates is in line here.

- a good starting point would be GCT’s parents.

Congratulations MM Lee, you just insulted most of the polytechnics, ITE and assorted blue collar workers that toil hard for this nation. It just shows the kind of mentality and the lack of respect that you hold for the native sons and fathers of this land that has helped to build this nation.

With arrogant comments like this, no wonder the offspring of our so-called “elites” say “Get out of my uncaring elitist face”

Like many of the posters here, I’m appalled at MM Lee’s repeated comments on eugenics.

My parents are not graduates yet both my sister and I made it to university. My sister now has a Dr. in front of her name while I’m still in college.

My parents worked hard their lives to send us to university, so by Mr Lee’s logic, are we a freak accident of nature?

Everyone plays a role in a society, be it the road sweeper down the street, or the bank-rolling executive at Shenton Way. No one is better than one another.

If Mr Lee wants to see a Singapore full of graduates, who’s gonna sweep the floor, build our houses, sell our food … oh wait… I think I’ve finally understand what’s happening to our country now.

On a serious note, I was very disturbed to hear his repeated comment and he is addressing to a pool of supposed invited (paid) lucnheon to I believe must be those elitist who attended? It dawned on me to suspect that was he fed the wrong information by the group of groomed scientist in the Bio-Tech field experimenting on Genetic Alteration, modification or re-engineering?

It makes me wonder the implication of his comment and what it does to the pool of attendance mindset. What is he hinting to the group? Is there going to be a legislation to forbid imparity marraige in Singapore?

So are we going to expect that future new borns to be examined thoroughly and have their natural genetic system altered to ensure that future Singaporeans born are super babies if the information revealed showing a mis-match not conforming to his ideology?

For the younger generation, education is a mean to give you knowledge but has no direct link to the sanctity of marriage between two people. Love does. The health and wealth of your future generations to come is largely based on your nurturing and upbringing process shared by both parents with love and compassion not some piece of PAPER.

On the upside, we could be the next sparta.

Madness.

These comments have no scientific basis, and I would be embarrassed to make such uneducated statements.

If he is Adam, he would have kicked Eve out and mated with the serpent because it is smarter than her. And if he’s God, all of us would not have been born except for his family, I guess.

Maybe it’s just a joke to lighten up the atmosphere, since he forecast that it will be 3-5 years before the world economy gets back on track.

He seems compelled to make big statements everywhere, predicting this and that, and stating his views as if they are the absolute truth. The fact is, he’s just human like us, living out his only lifetime and drawing conclusions based on his experiences. What holds true for him may not be so for others. Even if he’s extremely pleased with his outcome in the form of PM Lee, that’s just his assessment. I personally have better role models in the form of Ong Teng Cheong, Dr. Benjamin Sheares and Dr. Ee Peng Liang.

Perhaps MM may want to know that life is not about wealth, power and achievements. It’s often the simple things that make life worth living. If he doesn’t already know, his grand-daughter demonstrated this one thing that remained elusive to her highly intelligent grand-father when she prayed for her ailing grand-mother – L O V E. And if he wants to know, when his wife and son were afflicted, countless unknowns prayed for his recovery, people without degrees, titles and accolades; just human beings with a heart.

Hopefully, he discovers love and respect for human before he passes on. Being able to connect with people as a fellow human being is what makes them great.

gemami on October 25th, 2008 9.03 am

- why then, did he bring in fw workers without degrees? It opens up the opportunity that goes against the ‘assortative mating’ ideology?

One need MOM approval to marry foreign workers. There are many rejected cases.

44…..,
you hit de bull eyes…..

44…,
Anyway how many peoples knew about this??? I think not many..

At The Online Citizen, most reactions (replies in the comments) framed it as an expression to the right to discriminate. It reminds people of class discrimination (by social class and perhaps education) eugenics, some of the more horrific kinds of fascism, etc.

But, instead of assuming the worst in people, why not apply the principle of charity and put his statements in the best context that we can?

He might be referring to the state of class segregation and unequal opportunities – non-graduates tend to be poorer, to be on a lower rung of the social ladder.

Being the son of two graduates gives a person a better chance at entering a university. Being the son of a high-flyer in the civil service or a CEO of an MNC gives a person a better chance at entering a university (and a better one too). The son of a taxi driver and a janitor will definitely face more challenges in many areas of life, including further education.

That could the brutal truth that LKY tried to tell us. That the rich and famous lead a better life, and the children of the rich and famous tend to enjoy the better life too. In some perspectives of social science, reproduction, and evolution, females choose the most powerful and richest man because it gives their children the best opportunities in life, and the best opportunities in life will give their grandchildren the best opportunities in life and so on. In the perspective of an ordinary university undergraduate in Singapore, there is absolutely no argument about that – at least not in Singapore. That could the brutal truth that LKY is telling us.

And there is no genetic requirement to be powerful and rich – it is a result of where one starts off in life (and some luck). It is merely an unequal society, where the son of a taxi driver has opportunities, but perhaps only 1% of the opportunities that the son of two graduates has. LKY has given us a very honest admission, and a subtle one considering the political climate, of how Singapore and the PAP failed to achieve its ideals of an egalitarian society.

No! the “awful truth” is not the TRUTH …

If that is the TRUTH, then Bill Gates, Sim Wong Hoo will have to worried if they choose to marry non-graduate!!!!

Is this what LKY trying to say ???

If he is Adam, he would have kicked Eve out and mated with the serpent because it is smarter than he. – logicalman (#62)

But Eve actually convinced Adam to eat the Apple, so Adam is actually no better than Eve.

absolutely garbage! Really is anyone alive still listening to such craps?..it’s even sacrilegious to post it here!

67) Donaldson Tan on October 25th, 2008 9.47 am

If he is Adam, he would have kicked Eve out and mated with the serpent because it is smarter than he. – logicalman (#62)

But Eve actually convinced Adam to eat the Apple, so Adam is actually no better than Eve.

Haha, you are right, Donaldson, but I don’t think he will admit that.

Don’t keep shooting at MM Lee K.Y. What he said has some truth. And those who post your comments here are also ,mostly ( not all ) quite right.

Of all the comments, I like comment # 39 by lalaland bset:

“even if what you say is true, i’ll still marry someone i love, and love my stupid children too. I hope you didn’t force your children to marry clever people they don’t love, just so you can have clever grandchildren.”

Call all those clever studies “Eugenics” or “Genetic Engineering” or “Social Engineering” ….etc. Imagine if all of us “BELIEVE” that if a Graduate marries another Graduate then their offsprings will all have higher chances to go to university and also become graduates. If all of us believe this theory and if all of us from today do just this – then the whole world will become ALL SO SMART GRADUATES ….. and then we ask who will be the foot-soldiers to do all the lesser works ???? Who will be the leaders and who the followers???

I wonder ? 66.6% cannot be wrong ?

His theory is flawed. There are many cases of people, whose parents are non graduates, going to university and excelling in their careers.

I guess no one would be angry if he just believed in it and not carried out any actions to actually do something about it. Read at page 652 onwards from this study. http://www.ipss.go.jp/webj-ad/WebJournal.files/population/2003_6/24.Yap.pdf

There were cash incentives to discourage lower educated women from having more babies and certain incentives catered to graduate mothers. Haiz…this world is really unfair.

Really nonsense, I have a friend he is a gardener, uneducated and his sons are doctor and accountant. What kind of crap theory is our MM Lee talking about.

Many things are old economy.

. Education system – in the 50’s many were poor. few focus on education and could not afford it. so less people got degree. a degree back then gets you a top society status. Current education system is higher quality then olden days. Yet, nearly everyone has a tertiary cert (degree or poly cert). How many with a degree has a job?

I hope people wake up to realise that education is only a basic skill to have. It does not mean someone skilled in studying is also skilled in eg:

1. making love.
2. doing standup comedy – can earn lots of money too.
3. make a lot of sales – give of the gap or simply con people.
4. running 100 meters in sub 10 seconds.
5. fixing motors
6. inventing things
7. have multiple relationships concurrently.
8. toast master
9. cook world class dish.
A. fix a light bulb.
B. knowledgeable about local foods like mee siam – whats inside it and not inside it.
C. Accountable for his actions when people escape under his watch
D. Accountable when his company mis-leads people to buy
E. etc.

a very dangerous man with a very dangerous mind. he is trying to promote some sort of discrimination! With ppl like him, it will not be long before we set ourselves to see the next generation of Adolf Hitler! God Bless!

71) Rushking on October 25th, 2008 10.01 am

So even if what LKY propogated was right, is he shooting himself (and his ministers) in the leg? what happened to our “meritocratic” system of equal opportunities where kids were supposed to be equally opoortuned irregardless of their starting points in lives?

“but slowly it dawned on them – especially the graduates…”
Huh? exactly WHO are the graduates is he speaking of here? Is this yet another sweeping statement made by our ministers.

Fancy our omnipotent MM LEE making such ludicrous remarks…while i was no fervent supporter of his, I’m just utterly disgusted to see yet another minister making such unforgivable blunders.

What we do know is

Elite marries Elite == Wee Shu Min

I am not sure I like that equation :)

His mindset is as old as stonehenge. There are numerous examples of average IQ parents giving birth to gifted (very high IQ) individual. This is nature’s will and the correlation between two graduates parents having better chance to produce more intelligent child (it is more like that they have more money to send their kids for tuition) should be blast back to stoneage. LKY is history. Let us read about him with a pinch of salt.

My husband and I had married for LOVE and not by Qualifications. Btw, both of us are not graduates but we had produced children who make it to the university. We simply do not believe that we need to have paper qualification to bring out the best in everyone cos during our life time, we will continue to learn and grow. Both of us are now gainfully employed and earning a decent living.

I am appalled by MM’s remarks and the decent thing for him to do now is to apologise that he has made a mistake!

Can non-graduates sue him for defamation for what he said?

LKY should encourage McCain to bring up this issue during the campaign if he will to increase the vote counts.

LKY, just shut your mouth (or was it your anus), go 6 feet under ground and rest in peace forever.

Perhaps you can go and meet your parents in hell and ask them how they ever produce a sh!t like you, since they are not graduates!

My mum and father have less than primary school education, and I am doing my postgraduate. :D I shall end here.

66)

If that is the case, then the policies they have around would not promote elitism.
E.g LSL’s son getting a scholarship? Nobody is saying he doesnt deserve it, just some non-graduate parents poor kids need it more.
Studies have already shown kids from private schools tend to do better, but the underlying meaning under these statistics; need i say more?
Stats are meant to tell lies.
Just 2 or 3 years ago, ministers and local media were busking over the quality of the Singapore system because the top PSLE student, i think her dad was working in Airport Cargo loader, made it through and scored highest in Singapore.

regardless of whether his statements make sense or not, any miscommunication or misunderstanding, should always be first assumed the fault of the person who said it, it is his reponsibility, to recognise what he is trying to communicate. (And thats the point of others, he doesnt care, he’s just “the one”)

To offend the “minions” simply by such a sweeping statement, is tentamount to the “black crow” incident where the minister had to apologise.

I believe his comments are timed to spur kids are are taking their year end exams now to work harder, to prove him wrong if they have stupid parents. It is nice to know that our government encourages our kids to study hard although in very unorthodox way, very creative approach to rub salt during such golden years as he claimed we are in. Yeah, all those gold up there in the ivory castle.

This is indeed the same Eugenics rhetorics that justified policies with an underlying messaging that “The worth of children for the future of the nation is only as good as the worth of their parents.”

However, Professor James Flynn, the discoverer of the Flynn effect has demonstrated that upward mobility over generation in terms of education attainment of children continues to improve for parents who are previously from low education but the upward mobility over generation in terms of Educational attainment of children from graduate parents is plateauing.

At the point when the Eugenics movement were established in America, the general educational attainment of the Black community there was low. History gave testimony that the situation was due to the enslavement and the denial of educational opportunities and if any, resources accorded to schools for the Blacks were substandard compared to schools for the white population.

However, Black thinkers like Frederick Douglass, WEB DuBois, Franklin Frazier and Martin Luther King Jr along with the humanistis school of Social Sciences outrighly challenged the Eugenics Policy. DuBois vision to ensure the availability of Blacks at every field of Academia and Public institutions gave birth a century later the First Black Presidential candidate whose wit, intellectual soundness and charisma are applauded by Americans, men and women, from all race, age and walks of life.

Most importantly, the achievements of Black Americans in such a short span of time totally debunked the racist philosophy that stood behind the Eugenics movement.

The question is, Why is MM Lee reiterating the Eugenics tag again? If racial superiority was the motivation factor that drove the early proponents of Eugenics in US, Who are the black sheep communities being targetted here? Could it be an ethnic community? Could it be the globalised professionals that values the virtues of country women in other parts of Southeast Asia and Mainland Asia?

I personally feel that non graduates do not have to feel apologetic. Frech Sociologist, Pierre Bourdieu has observed that one reason that keeps a generation within the same sphere of achievement is the Social Capital. And the upperclass of society, through protectionist practices hoardes and blocks out the opportunities that improves Social Capital that allows two persons of equal educational attainment to have access to the same opportunities for upward social mobility.

The Eugenics method is one such protectionist practice.

Regards

It will be good for MM Lee Kuan Yew and members of his familee to read this article and the comments. They will realise, just like the people that blindly worship him(LKY) all these years, that LKY is as conventional a man. However, he is exceptionally shrewd, ruthless and glory seeking.

But, what I like to point out here is that, though superficial(based everything by what he sees), he failed to to be awared that many of the scholars awarded scholarships, including those under his name, were(are) children of non-graduate parents! AND IT INCLUDES HIS OWN PARENTS.

For accuracy of History, Lee Kuan Yew is never the Founder of Singapore neither was the British. Singapore was setttled in and developed long long before these two.

Lee Kuan Yew might want to be as brilliant as he wants to be and he is entitled to think so. But, however great he thinks of himself, he should and shall never interferes with Nature AND THE FREEDOMS OF FELLOW BEINGS, unless he is immortal.

All comments in this thread show that almost none agreed with his ‘theory’, enough to prove that he is a very disagreeable person. Nevertheless, I do wish him long live!

patriot

LKY to Obama: Congratulations and oh by the way, were your parents graduates?

If what he says is true and verified by the facts, it shows what a lousy society Singapore has become, despite all the meritocracy bullshit and very much thanks to his “leadership”.

In the united states, it is possible for people of diverse background to go to university, regardless of whether your mother is a banker or a whore. Here, you are practically “selected” from a young age to be the best, group with the best and become the A team to lead the country. There is no credibility to the political leaderhip other than their educational qualifications because they have put in place so many obstacles for a proper functioning democracy to take shape.

MM Lee should look at his own grandchildren. Are all of them as great as him? Just to show the old man is senile.

kicking up an old issue? wait … not so fast…. is this a distraction? The latest fiasco on Minbonds, DBS High Notes, Lehman Brothers, etc is creating lots of attention on the “gahmen”. Remember what he said at the previous IMF meeting in Singapore just prior to the news release on Temasek & Shin Corp? let’s focus on the major issues today. ignore his ramblin’

On one hand we are talking about the low marriage rate of the graduates woman who are over 30s and now we have such a message? What agenda is this message trying to gain?

Reading between the lines, this is what I think:

1. The gold door should only match the gold door, the elite should only marry the elite

2. I promote elitism

3. Look at my family for example

4. SDU, you better do more work here (I bet SDU will be pushing out more programs now after hearing this message and maybe seperate the degree holders and th non-degree holders participation list…….)

What an ironic message when we have such low marriage rate and still we get such message to the public that as a graduate one should try to get a graduate life-time partner…….

I bet ShittyTimes is now planning for a weekend special article featuring graduate woman married to non degree holders husband and the family pictures of many children…. coming soon. Just like in today’s weekend special featuring HDB after TOC featured a few articles on HDB)

My Apologies, I wish to make corrections to the statement below as it sounded simplistic.

The question is, Why is MM Lee reiterating the Eugenics tag again? If racial superiority was the motivation factor that drove the early proponents of Eugenics in US, Who are the black sheep communities being targetted here? Could it be an ethnic community? Could it be the globalised professionals that are shifting attracted to values and virtues of country women (often potrayed in movies as possessing the charm and gentleness that are able to stroke the ego of men), that have the in other parts of Southeast Asia, Mainland Asia or other parts of the world? Could it be the bottom strata of the society at the lower end of the income scale that is deemed too worthless to be empowered?

This message has gotten SDU and ShittyTimes really really busy……..

whatever he is trying to say these days are just irrelevant or he is going to go soon and his selfishness wants to bring the rest of his party to go down together with him, maybe! i dunno.

guys, please ignore the senile man. he doesn’t have much longer to live anyway(hopefully). usually, i do not like cursing people, but he always makes an excellent case for people to curse him.

perhaps the reason why he lives so long is simply because god hates him as much as we do. unfortunately, we are mere mortals, so we have to put up with him and his ridiculous logic.

i suspect he admires Hitler. there are parallels between him and Hitler.

to be honest, i doubt he is speaking for the “graduates”. he is speaking for himself, his personal view that he proclaims as gospel truth.

Change these people and we solve listening to idiotic speech.

WOW…..!

What is common between LKY and Adolf Hitler?

They are both proponents of eugenics!

Yes, singapore needs change, infact a BIG one too!

I don’t know whether that statement is taken out of context or what was the question that was posed that illicit that kinda reply. I do not agree with that statement in any case.

However, I believe in this statement which have proven to be truth and is an unwritten rule among elites – the truth that social capital is more important. Knowing the right people will bring you to places you want to be, opportunities you want to grab and fortunes you want and power you desired.

Look around the world and you will see successful politician and businessmen’s children becoming people of prestige and high standing in corporate world as well. It could be said that it is easier to gain entry into the world of elites if you have the pre-requisite of WEALTH (businessmen) or POWER (politicians).

However, for those who believe in meritocracy, the route for those who are not elites to move into the realm of the elites would be to focus on becoming an EXPERT. Wealth and Power needs Experts to pull things off. So, Experts will naturally sooner or later become elites as well.

So, those who are going to have children.. please consider groooming your children to become EXPERTs if you are not Wealthy nor Powerful.

Mr LKY sir! your words have caused a BIG insult to all parents of the whole nation including your ruling party, your entire army and police force, and if they still think that what you’ve just said is true and correct, they are just idiots!

shocking indeed.
survival doesn’t equate with qualification.
there are many different people with different skills that succeed in life.
行行出状元.
LKY’s view is utterly myopic.
the more u speak, the more blunders you make.
maybe it’s time for u to step down & go for sightseeing overseas.

LKY is on his usual distraction tactic again. Provoke people so much that they can forget about the financial fiasco and loss of billions by his most talented daughterInLaw.

Is this oldman pay to create distraction ?

I don’t know about you, but i sure feel uncomfortable reading/viewing this. True, intelligence is partly genetic, but most importantly, it is the environment.

Nature vs. Nurture

And therefore, perhaps, what we need is a strong and effective education system. Where all talents can be recognised and developed to be best for the world. Idealistic? Sure. But this is what we should work towards.

Utterly flawed eugenic being spewed…..

u r a UNI student or not…
is not a matter…

whether u r clever to inventing something or making money r impt..

uni student r nothing or non uni student is the same..
::))

uni student not = to clever…
non uni student not + to stupid too.

at least stupid or clever pp still have 1 votes..
hahas.

Utter bollocks as usual! When will he ever give up pontificating over this and that?

My parents weren’t grads, but I went to Uni. My parents-in-law also weren’t grads, not even Sec school. But 3 of their 5 daughters are grads now.

I have plenty of frens whose spouses are not grads, but their children could go to Harvard and Cambridge.

He’s such a bigoted idiot! He said Singapore needs an A Team. Only Singapore? By the way, he needs all of 5 yrs to prove them. This means that he never can know if he has picked an A Team at the start. If he screwed up (as he had before- Phey Yew Kok, Yeo Cheow Tong, Wong Kan Seng, Lim Chee Onn etc) it means Singapore had suffered for that 5 yrs of trial. So what’s the diff between trying out an Opposition Party for 5 yrs too? No diff.

[...] leave a comment » http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/mm-lee-on-assortative-mating/ [...]

I feel sad for LKY. Watching him is like watching our own version of King Lear. I see him and I am reminded of the old folks who work in Macdonald’s. So old already still have to work. Why do you think he’s still doing it? For power? Why is he always defending his own Cabinet and call them A team, first class etc etc? I think he knows they are not first class. I think he knows that after the Old Guard passed away, the second and third generation CEOs (sorry I can’t bring myself to call them leaders) don’t measure up. So he has taken upon himself to ’save’ the party and the nation… and realizing the tragedy is of his own making when he muzzled democracy in Singapore.

Oh… and he said we wouldn’t be where we are if he didn’t “TRAIN” us not to spit, litter, be less noisy etc… It goes a long way to show what really sees Singaporeans as. Workers need training, Soldiers need training. Dogs need toilet training, and to be a little less noisy.

Straits Times has time and again said their position is PRO SINGAPORE, not PRO GOVERNMENT. But is printing such stuff that insults us without offering criticism Pro Singapore? Why isn’t anything said by the M&M ever scrutinized and criticized?

USA People had a bit of respect for Bush Senior for his presidency.
Bush Senior + bush mommy = Bush Jr.

What happened People?

let’s disect the whole episode:
1. newscaster introduced segment: “on a lighter note …….”
— how can such a comment be taken as “a lighter note? – - – worse than the Bali bombing!

2. “This is the way the world is”.
— which world? whose world? is there such a world in existence?

3. “I have explained this”.
— does it mean whatever you have explained becomes truth – regardless?

4. “I think I lost votes after I explained the awful truth”.
— you bet! what do you mean “I think” / at least we know the population is still sane.
— it is awful but since when is this the truth – proven? by whom? where?

5. “Nobody believed it, but slowly it dawned on them – especially the graduates …”
— you want us to believe there are people who actually bought your ‘truth’? Actually, I will contradict myself here, I believe you. There are those who shiver and shit in their pants in your presence, your son included, and probably you we refering to them and those who dress in white and who come to your party for free food.

6. “… you marry a non-graduate, then you worry about whether or not your son or daughter is going to make it to university”
— only the gradute in here does the worrying, your other half does not worry, meaning, your other half is therefore responsible for your children not being intelligent enough to enter university. why sow seeds of discord among those who do not fall into your utopian criteria but are already happiliy married.

7. “ha…ha…ha…….
— non-graduates, I’m slapping all your faces . . . .ha…..ha……ha…..ha…….”

a. graduate + graduate = intelligent
b. graduate + non-graduate = limited intelligence
c. non-graduate + non-graduate = inconsequential
d. parents of graduate who marry non-graduate = blame non-graduate partner for making graduate son/daughter worry whether children will get into university or not.
e. parents of non-graduate = blame graduate partner of child should their children fail to get into university.
f. graduates who have already married non-graduates, go marry a graduate so that you will have children going to the university.

Ooops! . . . the last point is placed there because LKY had tried to introduced polygamy some time back but it did not work.

what this old man says in recent years basically can be classified as LKY laughing stocks…hahahahahaha

#113) Germ..
What!? LKY tried to introduce Polygamy and it didn’t get approved?!?!!?

Now.. that is really … Absurd!
How could it not get approved?!

Damn.. if not.. now I can have many many wifes…

Isa,

careful here – now that we know a bit more on how his mind works we can be quite certain that his idea of polygamy is not meant for the male species only. the missus can have more than one husband too…….hmmm…………

Talk rubbish only. MM Lee should apologise!
He’s wrong in so many things. Absolute nonsense!!!!

He and his party should continue to lose votes, hahaha.

i no no leh. u know meh ?
8-(

come to think about it, it seems that he did it on purpose to divert the public from the ongoing tension build up on the financial crisis, the minibond saga and other issues on those electric price hikes, don’t think so he is that stupid. whatever he did I think this is another of his twist n turn stragedy he mastered all these years to all you guinea pigs singaporeans.

MM Lee has very wierd thinking. What happen if both graduates got married and could not have children. File for divorce and marry another graduate in order to reproduce the super -breed posterity. Marriage is made in heaven. And love plays a part: irregardless of status, qualifications or race. It just doesn’t make sense to me that such a thing can be manipulated by mankind! Next time new-born babies will be marked grade A, B, C, D, E before returning home from hospital.

We are experiencing a worldwide financial meltdown, is this a kind of family meltdown?

WTF? This is completely unscientific. Pulling out statistical correlation does not necessarily, if fact it rarely, means causation. QED.

You are a lawyer and a politician, please leave science to the scientists and sociologists.

Can someone explain me the meaning of HALO Effect and provide an example for this term ? Thank you , many many.

Lee Hsien Loong, Lee Hsien Yang, Lee Wei Ling – products of LOVE or products of EUGENICS?

HALO Effect, here you go…the meaning of HALO Effect

1. a predisposition to admire all of a person’s actions, work, etc., because of an estimable quality or action in the past.
2. Psychology. a potential inaccuracy in observation, as of a person, due to overgeneralization from a limited amount of evidence or the influence of preconceived beliefs or a priori hypotheses: The assumption that he is an authority on the subject is a halo effect of his Ivy League manner.

Wonder why Lee Wei Ling did not get married???

Maybe she fall in love with a non-graduate and LKY objected to it…make sense??

Have you seen her before? LWL. Even graduates will run far far away! I see her everyday and they way she spits to … er…sorry …. the way she speaks to her staff ….. no words to describe.

maybe Philip Yeo can explain better.

May I ask, is HIS parents educated or are graduate……………

very honestly right, i’ve heard the MM believes to a certain extent in eugenics…it isn’t that scary if he doesn’t impose it onto government policy, and so far he’s been unsuccessful, so thank goodness for that.

anyway smart father + smart mother = smart son.
uneducated but very concerned, caring parents imho = smart son/daughter. so seriously it doesn’t make a difference. there are so many factors involved that genetics plays a very small part most of the time.

believe me, i’ve seen gep kids who get thrashed by mainstream kids in secondary school. so honestly its nothing to do with genes or anything. i’ve seen sons of housewives do exceedingly well. so whats it about then?

We should be glad that we have OPPORTUNITIES given by our hard working parents to go to school. Our parents may not have that opportunity to go to school. I am sure MM parents hard work give him that opportunity as well and at the same time, his parents ( I gues) may not have that opportunity. Please be HUMBLE

I hope if you people daughters old enough still not married should preach your daughters produce a few babies lah. India many bachelors. they good good wan.

No since Adolf Hitler have I seen another politician or national leader preach
and advocate the issue of eugenics so openly bordering on the absurd.
I am sure many socialogists and scientists can debunk whatever illogical thoughts about this in his senile head

i like what comment #66 Dingfeng have wrote. another way to look at wat LKY have said.

Yet i would like to add that, assuming if Dingfeng is correct in his/her intepretation, one of the apparently reason that Singapore and the govt cant achieve an egalitarian society is becos of its pro-business n free market approach. the rich is richer n the poor is poorer. no point talking abt assortive mating, i tink the govt shld start working on that. what is charity, when the passion to serve the nation (a virtue) is being associated with millions of dollars?

also in relavants to that, the meritocractic system is ‘faiingl’. though its based on equality n on one’s merits. this is merely an utopia. no one is ever equal becos of one’s family background and this only serve to reconstruct this inequality like what dingfeng mentioned.

personally, i think rather than talking abt genes and mating n how much it piss plp off (which i perceive it s purely one-sided n ‘unconstructive’.). LKY shld identify the problems children who parents r non-graduates are facing in their education and impliment stategies on how to facilitates these children to benefit in learning n realize their potential (not merely obtaining degree(s)).
to categorizes humans’s worth on the basis of their paper qualifications really undermines or understate the potential of humans abilities.

According to MM Lee’s formula,

I have PhD => My dad = PhD and my mum = PhD.

My dad: Master’s (long distance learning only and because he got free time, did it in his late 40s so don’t count)

My mum: Pre-U only

…ehhh…doesn’t seem to work out mate……

He should be get real with the his completely insulting and disgraceful remarks. Is he trying to promote some sorta fascism with the level of academic achievements? My advice to Singaporeans, study the subject because you like it, NOT because getting a degree on it makes you feel as if you have status. I did my PhD on the basis of interest. Nothing more, nothing less.

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/4/23/focus/14029830&sec=focus

Not sure how factually accurate the above article is, but I guess its worth noting that it seems the majority of our population is made up of descendants from illiterate peasants. And if you believe in eugenics…..

Apparent concerns about having more foreigners than Singaporeans in Sg yet immigration laws that seems to be getting more and more aggressive…..

SSC,

Lol. You’re totally wrong. Flowers can be eaten. A lot of foods are made from flowers. Locally and in the region, you can get rose syrup from flowers. And what about chrysantemun? It is used not only to make tea, but I hear one or two organic foods can be made from the flower. I’m telling you, I’m sure that any type of flower that isn’t poisonous has some kind of nutrition in it worth tapping on. All that’s necessary is a bit of research, the serious kind (and this is where education comes in) and everyone will be eating flowers in a decade or two. My, my. What an idea. I’m going to eat an Edelweiss next time I see one.

LKY,

Genetics has nothing to do with intelligence, scientist can’t prove that certain genes produce smart people. It all depends on hardwork and discipline to be successful. You are not a biologist and not even a expert in the field of genetics. On what basis did you get your facts from? If these are not facts and you just want to create jokes for a bunch of diners. That’s really bad taste. Whole singapore awaits your apology on this sick words from your mouth. Bible says it is not what you eat that is considered unclean but what came forth from your mouth that is unclean. You have definitely speaking discrimination and more like facism. I pity you, a great man that is truly lost. You have equate yourself with GOD by being able to understand the hidden secrets of the human body. You can bluff sinkies but can you smoke GOD?

What I really think is that everything matters. Education can never guarantee anything, but if you’re interested in things like ‘upgrading’ or ‘improving’ yourself education is an option. Again, matriculation into a good university cannot guarantee that you become a better person or even better equipped to face life after school– graduates do not necessarily find themselves better persons nor are they guaranteed of things like jobs for instance. At the other end, you have people who are very savvy who make it in trade and commerce, and you also have people who have carved a very nice niche for themselves (with their charisma) in certain vocations. I think in the end it is about being competitive. If you have fighting spirit, and if you can keep going, you’ll make it, with or without a good education. Like the Hokkiens say, ai4 pia3 jia4 eh3 yia2.

signs of senility if you asked me…
actually hitler got the same thinking…producing blue eyed blonde “superior” race…the rest are just trash…

“LKY,

Genetics has nothing to do with intelligence, scientist can’t prove that certain genes produce smart people.”

Isn’t his son make a good example ?

can we sue him for defamation? collectively?

Pardon me in the midst of this heated discussion, but I am curious about what exactly makes you mad:

a) He meant that ALL children of non-graduates WILL NOT make it to the university. This makes me angry.

b) I am angry about general statements even though it does not necessarily apply to each individual in the population?

i.e. I’m still angry about the statement: “Children of graduate parents are more likely to go to university, although children of non-graduate parents can make it too”

c) Others. (I’ll greatly appreciate if you can elaborate)

or

d) I can accept general statements which are true, but his general statement is false, so I’m angry.

i.e. I believe that on the whole, aggregated statistics will show that children of non-graduate parents are equally like to get into the university with childen of graduate parents.

MM Lee said “That is the way the world is. I have explained this . . . . ”

This perspective or worldview is narrow minded and lacks . . . .

Surprising statement from a mentor! . . . . [of leaders!]

I think I will find a blondie to mate …
Will produce a hybrid….

now the poll results show clearly that what mm think is not true at all for most people.

so should we have a petition to ask mm to clarify or say sorry?

or petiton for this type of things that just slip out of mm mind is waste of time?

there are other important things like banks must pay all victims of minibonds if they have cheated.

Cool it, hellas! MM is not scientifically trained. What he said is just the result of his ignorance and lack of logical rigour. We should not dissect or take his words too seriously.

I think we should forgive him.

Hmm, this comment from MM Lee spurred me into doing some thinking. Err, basically I think there is a correlation between the likelihood of one going uni and whether one’s parents are graduates, but the link is more complex and might be borne of the advantages one recieves from going to uni rather than any natural force. anyway, consolidated my thoughts at my own blog and wanna know what you guys think of what i think if anyone is bothered to read my rant:

http://personalnotepad.blogspot.com/2008/10/on-assortative-mating.html

Ok, tried posting a comment but i think it got lost. Basically I think there is a higher probability of one going un if ones parents are grads, but the link is complex and borne out of the adavantages one recieves from going to uni rather than any force of nature, wrote my response here

http://personalnotepad.blogspot.com/2008/10/on-assortative-mating.html

, and would like comments if anyone can be bothered to read thanks.

I agree with the earlier post that this Eugenics thing is really timed to distract from the real issues – i.e. the economic situation.

Nevertheless, there is a need to point out that Opportunities to Education is not to be equated with Opportunities from Education. Opportunities to education very much depends on how much an educator or educational body sustains the education process with the educant such that learning takes place. However, Opportunities from Education very much depends on the opportunities available for the learner to test out what has been learnt.

For instance, should Singapore decide to introduce a more dynamic curriculum in schools, one that adopts the critical pedagogical approach, learners may have the opportunity to acquire and master the tools needed for critical evaluation. However, if strict sensorship (regardless politically imposed or self-imposed often due to fear) is prevalent, learners will not be able to exercise criticality in their daily lives.

Having opportunity to attain University education is not to be equated with having the opportunity to apply the learning received from University education. A white horse and an ordinary citizen may be holding on to the same testamur scroll from the same university. However, the white horse is more likely to be exposed to opportunities than an ordinary citizen by virtue of the social space/ class they are in.

As for the points raised by LKY, I am more inclined to think that the big agenda is the sustenance of a Consumerist Class.

For instance, Fresh Graduates from Graduate parents are more likely to have been exposed to the higher consumerist culture earlier than Fresh Graduates from non Graduate Parents. Upon graduation, the former would have familiarised with upmarket products and lifestyle while the latter would only be introduced to these products. However, the ecomomy here is designed for overpriced branded products be consumed quickly so as to give assurance to investors that there is a big market potential. As fresh graduates from non-graduate parents may still hold on to conservative consumption habits, do not immediately contribute to the market dynamics.

Perhaps, to LKY, Graduates marrying a non Graduates would probably create a situation where, either the graduate’s consumerist ideals would be tamed by the non graduate spouse, which results as a loss of spending potential which will affect the economy. Or the non-graduate spouse acquires the habits of conspicuos consumption from the graduate spouse, which is not useful as the low purchasing power of the non graduate spouse which would require the graduate spouse to spend time earning money with less time spending the earnings at high end market. So much so, the non graduate spouse will not be socialised enough and would be contented with psuedo upmarket goods (from clearance sales maybe?) Should the non graduate spouse develop an obsession on upmarket products, much of the graduate spouse earnings would be spent on purchases leaving little to fund children’s educational enrichments. The lack of enrichments may than contribute to performance gap thus creating a class of students that may have difficulties getting the grades for university placement.

However, if it really was centrally economics, why should we allow ourselves to be enslaved to an economic system that is self defeating?

I am concerned this topic has been raised again. I can tell you that a related topic was raised in 1984, (do you know who was the pm then ?), and it was termed as the GRADUATE MOTHER SCHEME. If you folks check the Singapore political developments, you will know a key reason why PAP was unseated in a constituency that year.

Almost everyone here agrees that LKY is talking nonsense.

However, what is most frightening for me is that he is ‘mentoring’ his A team of ‘Yes’ managers for Singapore and we are paying him in cash and other benefits to do it! I wish I can sack him from the job.

Another frightening thought is that his ‘mentees’ probably take his words as commandment and are probably doing something about it now. Maybe in the pipeline is ‘through-train’ education based on parents’ background.

i don’t subcribe to hitler’s form of genetic engineering to create a super human race.
nor financial engineering to weed out people who are not financially well off to
attend the super schools notice all the good schools are along the bukit timah condo belt.
the poor including taxi drivers hawkers have all contributed and have sons or daughters who are scholars. the elitist scholars who come from well off background do not have the tenacity, drive to survive.

I’m flabbergasted with MM’s warped mind thinking. Myself as well as most of my siblings have made our way to postgraduate and I’m proud to claim my parents were illiterate. The same goes with my illiterate cousins’ families, practically all of them have at least undgraduate degrees with most post graduate.

His claim doesn’t hold water and is spued out of the mouth of an insane person. BTW, I came to understand from a number of SIN-ans living and working overseas that LKY created a sperm and egg bank in SIN with donors from the Lee family and extended families and some of his elitist circle and graduates. Is this true? He seems intent and leave no stones unturned on producing a super race in SIN.

As LKY foresees, SIN will have the greatest number of graduates in Asia in the next two decades to match those in NA/Canada and Europe. And I won’t be surprised, most graduates will be doing “sapu-longkang” jobs as there’ll be oversupply of taxi drivers, labourers, bar-tenders, sales persons, cashiers, construction workers, etc. This is true in many developed western countries today.

His ill-thought comments or comments from a sick-mind person are nothing more than thrash. His reputation as the most intellectual person in Asia is grossly tarnished and it’s time for him to retire in a first class first world sanitorium.

Most of us in our family and extended families made our way to tertiary education on our own efforts and not because we were born by graduate parents. It’s utter rubbish and I don’t know where he got his statistics from, SIN Statistics Department?

My wife isn’t a graduate and all my children made it to graduate and postgraduate school. It depends on your upbringing, the circumstances you were born into and how you cope with the impossibles. Human potentials are limitless and space is the limit.

I couldn’t imagine him bursting into laughter if he’s a normal person or perhaps his personality is supernormal or abnormal. It’s not subnormal or he’ll be a moron like GW Bush, bull-shitting the financial world and Wall Street for 8 solid years.

Trust those reading my comments will take MM’s ramblings not even with a pinch of salt. It’s not worth a cent what he said.

If LKY had spoken as a private citizen, we wouldn’t have been so bothered.
But here he is speaking as a govt minister, and one with a position of mentoring
his younger ministers, it is disastrous.
Yes, Hitler did has the similar view with his superior Aryan race thinking and we
know how tragic the consequences it turned out.
Perhaps LKY should respect the view of the general poplulation and retire.

Its interesting to note that almost if not all comments posted do not fully agree with the elder.

counter insurgency is not working well ?

156#

Only idiots believe that “counterinsurgency” will work. It is like spin in America. Most Americans are sick of political spin.

Isn’t it a fact that
many graduates have parents who are non graduates,
many great men/women have parents who are non graduates,
many graduates cause more harm to the country or company they work for because they are more likely to be at the apex,
many graduates do not learn things like integrity, honour, self belief, courage, accountability, compassion, sense of fairness, empathy, etc, etc from institutions of higher learning.

The point is, the emphasis should be on parents imparting the right values and not about whether Singapore is better off with more couples who are graduates.
The big big QUESTION we should pose to MM is whether he and his wife, both graduates, have imparted values we can cherish.
Do you guys think Lee jr. is a positive or negative example ? LOL

singaporeans falls into his trick again by diverting you ppl attention from more important questions that has been raised recently i.e. all that minibond things and other national issues.

142) Pie Kiah 69

“…the awful TRUTH” – on what basis did he declare his proclaimation to be the TRUTH? and what right has he to laugh at his own declaration?

147) smallvoice585

in other word – “Let’s move on?”

George Lee (#148),

http://personalnotepad.blogspot.com/2008/10/on-assortative-mating.html

Your blog post would make sense if LKY only said that 2 non-graduates will have a low chance of producing an offspring who will attend university. Problem here is that LKY said a graduate who marries a non-graduate may produce an offspring who is very less likely than the offspring of 2 graduates to enrol at university.

“Stop at 2″ . . .
“Have more if you can afford it”. . .
“Graduate mothers” . . .
“Your mother, wife, sisters and daughters will end up as maids in other country if you don’t pay me and my ministers enough”
“Golden period” . . . mentioned in July 2008 and now
“It’ll take 3 to 5 years to recover”!

“It is not true that it’s one damn thing after another – it’s one damn thing over and over.” Edna St. Vincent Millay (February 22, 1892 – October 19, 1950)

Just look at the instances of “Chui Kong Lumpar Song!” above, roughly translated from Hokien, “Mouth Speaks Balls Happy!” .Where stand-up comedy is concerned, I prefer self-deprecating Rodney Dangerfield and Jack Benny.

Coincidently there was a write up in ST about praises for the clever ones in Suzhou having mistresses breeding more little clever ones.

It is funny, frightfully funny. If the “Mentees” follows the gospels of the “Mentor”, we are in deep shit. Don’t know what he’s driving at but looks like this party’s intolerance for the poor and less educated makes “staying together, moving ahead” a real joke that leaves a bitter taste.

With euthanasia being propagated in the news lately, very soon this ‘pragmatic’ govt of ours may just be the death of us – the poor, the unproductive and the less educated! Instead of taking care of ‘chiak leow bee’ who have passed their “used by date”, they’d rather we go and die!

If leadership is only about making one rich, being so full of oneself and making political opponents suffer financial harship and jail terms, Singapore ranks numero Uno!

Why can’t leadership come with the courage and creativeness to take on challenges of opposing views and ideas instead of getting crony endorsements all the time for self-serving laws and regulations?

Money, power , limelight. Why do they need so much more for themselves without regard for what other citizens need and deserve?

Do they serve people or serve their own?

Only my dad had a Graduate Qualification. My mum only achieved high school. And I’m doing my undergrad now. So what does that make my parents’ output?

With respect to MM Lee’s past (highly commendable) achievements and bringing Singapore to this stage in the world, I shall make my criticism short and brief.

Why does a man with such a high stature, stoop down to Eugenics during the 1990’s and now, resort back to a similar school of thought? I’m sure everyone knew the Graduate Mother scheme which failed (Duh!). He still seeks to ‘unite’ the affluent with its ‘own kind’. I wonder where he gets his statistics from.

To #141:

I wouldn’t say I am angry. More of disgusted. Disgusted that our leader looks down on those without a degree. Disgusted that he is trying to promote the same thinking to others. Disgusted that he promotes efficiency and cost savings etc over all other things such as love and a decent lifestyle. Disgusted that the PAP in general plays pretty much the “Simon says” game.

And if you have a degree now and you support them, just think of this: Degrees are common now, and getting even more common by the day. 20 years down the road, they just might be saying “PhD holders marry non PhD holders and then worry about whether their children can get PhD” or worse!

Sorry, the above post #165 should be to 142) Pie Kiah 69, and not #141

the best way to settle this issue is for the opposition mps to seek clarification from the PM on the stand of his govt. do they or do they not support the comments uttered by lky?

if they do not support the same view. then lky has to make a public apology and pay costs to all offended and step down..

if they support his comments, then they must state clearly what value do the non-graduates hold and what stakes do they have in this country – their home?.

why is it that we on TOC are enraged about this, while it seems like NO ONE ELSE realises that such an incident happened?

No offense, LKY, your son very intelligent, meh?

Sheesh… I’m pretty sure your are bordering on dementia. What times are you living now?

But I can tell you, it’s definitely not you that brought me thus far in life. It was my non-graduate parents who slogged through their sweat and blood to bring me up. Definitely not you and some of your ‘questionable’ policies with the stop at two and speak less dialects.

Please, you already embarrassed yourself when you started to talk about Norway, Sweden in previous press statements.

Please don’t insult our intelligence, and yours too. A wise man knows when to talk and when to shut up.

Please don’t embarrass yourself. Even more so Singapore.

Utterly disgusted and insulted,
Kaffein

Sorry, but then I have friends are grads marry those who only have ITE certs and they DON’T CARE A DAMN ABOUT IT!!!

There is a saying goes… Love is blind

170) liaogz on October 26th, 2008 8.53 pm
oh, so I see our MM is full of LOVE huh!

how many taxi driver got children who is a scholar?? think when ones get old that what happening??

Amongst the many Top Scholarship Receivers in Singapore, many of them had fathers who were(are) taxi drivers. And to be fair to the System, outstanding students, irrespective of their parentage, are given assistance and opportunities.

Personally, two taxi driver friends who were lower secondary educated, had their sons educated in Raffles Institution and are going overseas for further studies(tertiary level).

patriot

171) tiredsingaporean on October 26th, 2008 10.56 pm
170) liaogz on October 26th, 2008 8.53 pm
oh, so I see our MM is full of LOVE huh!

My friends dun care a damn about whether does marrying their spouse will decrease their children chance of entering university. Love is blind to all these unjustified prejudice (color, IQ etc), so our MM lee is NOT full of love!!!

Anyway the more I think abt it, the more i feel that it is a ploy to distract.

Doesn’t sound like a comment from a “university graduate”

Thanks to gemami (#160) and why (#165) for your reply. Before I make a wrong guess of what you mean, can you please clarify?

#160 gemani – What exactly his statement which he thought is correct? Does it appear in any of my options in post #142 and #143? Or are you angry with him because he sounded confident?

#165 why – Do I get it correct that you meant that his statement (whatever it is) casts a negative connotation about non-graudates?

Here is my take:
I tend to agree with #148 (George Lee) that I believe there is a higher tendency for children of graduates to go to university than those of non-graduates (i.e. I do not mean the latter cannot make it to the university). And it is due to various reasons other than genetics. If we take LKY’s words bona fide, this is what I think he meant by the awful truth.

Political correctness aside, I must say that most people are too emotional to accept general statements even if it were true. Just as in general statements about race and religion, people can easily fill in connotations as negative as anyone can imagine.

I don’t mean emotional people are at fault because making a statement that rises people’s hair is a pragmatic issue. Unlike me, he is a politician and so he has to be politically correct. And in this aspect, I think he is wrong.

On a lighter note, I would say you don’t need his approval to get married. The most sticky marriage can get is only “approval” from the whole family, not a government stat-board.

The statistics show that a fair no of female graduates are not hitched..
Incentivising marriages at same educational levels can help those who want to go family way; the nature versus nurture agreement will go on and on.
intention of MM’s speech is well meaning.

its disappointing that person of such status to say such thing
its something which he has long believed in
its the same in breeding of pets.
of those of good breed should mate with those of the same
but we are human and i do not agreed with it
its like in the old days, people of certain status will only agreed to marry their child to someone of similar status.

its now 2008 and why should we accept such old fashion thoughts
sometimes i think maybe our MM is too old for all these
shouldnt he retire?

patriot (#173),

Yes, I am as convinced as you. We see exceptions everyday.

Apart from hard work from the individual and his or her family, I believe it is the education system and the meritocratic policies, albeit with some side-effects like stress and perceived unfairness, that make it possible.

patriot (#173),

Yes, I am as convinced as you. We see exceptions everyday.

Apart from hard work from the individual and his or her family, I believe it is the education system and the meritocratic policies, albeit with some side-effects like stress and perceived unfairness, that make it possible.

to #162

well yup! so I disagree with him! on the basis that I’ve outlined.

PEOPLE HAVE THE POWER OF THOUGHT.

There are all sorts of people who make it in life, regardless of how they are born.

There are the naturally talented ones, and then there are the ones that work hard for their success.

Whatever you can believe, you can achieve.

@ parka

the next thing when you walk into the shopping mall is to tell the cleaner that she/he isn’t believing in himself/herself that’s why they are there.

Motivations isnt the way to counter the argument, it’s pretty much changing the colour of the chess pieces without changing/doing away with the chess board.

To #176
” #165 why – Do I get it correct that you meant that his statement (whatever it is) casts a negative connotation about non-graudates?”

Negative connotation? What sort of negative connotation. Not sure what you mean either.

Regarding the “statement”, my impression is not just based on what he said here. Over the years, the government has introduced many schemes that pretty much support the same point. And government in Singapore = PAP. Grads = good for making more elite babies. Everyone except the tiny group of elites = good for squeezing until they almost die.

And to sidetrack a little… Quote taken from Pay-And-Pay’s own website:
“I know that many Singaporeans who are not so poor but also not so well off feel that they are pressured. Middle-income Singaporeans and they feel that they’re the sandwiched class, stuck in the middle. But when you ask who is the sandwiched class, all the way from quite low down to quite high up, it’s a very fat sandwich but they feel sandwiched and we haven’t forgotten them.
- PM Lee Hsien Loong at National Day Rally 2008 on 17 Aug”

This should really make it to the quote of the day too. Pay-And-Pay hasn’t forgotten ya all alright. They’re going to squash you, the “fat sandwich” until you’re flat like pancake and cut out all the fat.

Well, that was my first thought when I read the quote. My friend said I had a one-track mind… (aka obsessed / nuts). What about you?

In the heat of the minibomb saga, MM comes out to spew rubbish to make everyone upset.

This topic of his is not new. The graduate mother policy etc

Why he likes to take the arrow for his son, hah?

I tot he got A-team?

Yes. Please vote in the A-Team at the next General Election, so that the Lees can remain shielded from their gross policy oversight and other undoing of theirs.

PS: There is a limit the current PAP can bank on LKY´s merit as the founding father of our little country.

from the heated reactions to this topic, it’s not hard to see that it’s an excellent distraction. Just days ago, we were discussing about the 21% electricity tariff increase, now that seems history, as though we have let SP off the hook. I can’t think of any company that can raise prices by 21% during a recession and still have captive customers and not just stay afloat but grow.

Like someone said, we don’t need his approval on whom we wish to get married to. They may stream us at school, divide us into subtle classes at different stages in life and even have different match-making agencies for graduates and others. Well, let them be. What matters most is that we as parents, inculcate the right values into our children, show them how we ought to live and love as a family.

Everyone is different, blessed with different strengths and weaknesses. To make life plans based on a piece of paper from an institution is simplistic, if not laughable.

So, my advice is to dismiss this talk about assortative mating and focus on more important and pressing issues presently hurting the sandwiched middle class and lower class, as well as those that shape the future of Singapore. For eg. The issues surrounding elected presidency are valid and worth thinking over. As long as the ruling party has control over the President and PEC, it’s akin to controlling the source of the river upstream, not unlike Thaksin wielding power through his bro-in-law. While we push for change and more credible opposition to moderate the ruling party’s policies where they bother on extremist assumptions, we should nonetheless take a healthy interest in factors that will give the ruling party a persistent hold and power. Otherwise, Singapore will perpetually remain an experiment for the ruling party.

#186,

Founding Father? Really?

Yes. Please vote in the A-Team at the next General Election, so that the Lees can remain shielded from their gross policy oversight and other undoing of theirs.

DC (#188),

I am stretching a little about Lee Kuan Yew being the founding father. No doubt after WWII, there was a wave pro-independence movements in every colony of the world. Many people from the colonies felt betrayed by their colonial rulers. Lee Kuan Yew is one of the many emerging leaders who ride the post-WWII colonial independence wave.

To #176 who wrote:
“Political correctness aside, I must say that most people are too emotional to accept general statements even if it were true. Just as in general statements about race and religion, people can easily fill in connotations as negative as anyone can imagine.”

I do not think people get emotional or worked up over general statements. However if one has been proned to frivalous, sweeping, over the hill statements too frequently over the years, then expect to be face a public whiplash.

And I assume he mouthed off based on statistics? Yeah right.

I feel insulted because it makes me feel like a figure, a mere number and digit in policy making. In this instance, just because 60% (just say hypothetically) of kids with graduate parents perform better DOES NOT equate we should implement/encourage a policy for graduate parents to pro-create.

This is the most idiotic statement.

Seriously speaking, those words that have sprouted from his mouth – it is very similar to the ‘people live longer with avg 85 yrs old’. All based on statistics, so let’s move the goalpost to 85 yrs old.

Are you telling me that just because each day 1000+ planes landed safely, we should do away or have very minimal payout for air crash deaths? Or just because most people don’t drown in swimming pools, we should reduce the no of lifeguards? Or even better, most IT courses have just only <20% females. So the schools should increase the quota for guys entering into IT courses and discourage females?

With this new pro-graduate statements, does it mean there will be more benefits for graduates? Hey not all are academically inclined. Why force people to regurgitate back on paper when they are not interested and have absolutely no inclination in the subject of study?

In all honesty, I don’t know what train of thoughts he has, or from which hole he’s pulling the rabbit out from .

Stop trying to be God, LKY. Some things are beyond you. You have already stuffed up with the stop at two policy and the speak less dialects policy (I know only a smattering of Cantonese. Thanks to you that my parents refused to speak to me in that dialect!)

Duh.

Kaffein

176) Pei Kiah

my answers to your question is found in my earlier post #113.

i think your take and understanding of the uttered words, totally misses the point. what we have here is someone declaring the comments he uttered as ‘Truth’, yes, truth with a capital T – with an added punch by the manner in which he giggled like a small boy who thought he had uttered something very intelligent at the end of the comment. It is not anger but repulsion that i feel. . . i still feel like vomitting discussing this topic.

having said this, i agree with your take as described in para #1 – but is this the same as what lky would have us believe? i do not think so but of course we can continue to subject ourselves to a lenghty debate over this. we have to take the words at the face value that it was uttered.

your other comment:
“…I must say that most people are too emotional to accept general statements even if it were true…”

i do not think this is a general statement at all. if you read the comments again you will notice that there are 5 ‘intents” before he issued the pucnch line. it is a deliberate and direct statement, made with the intent to sway the audience into believeing that what he is proclaiming is the ultimate ‘Truth’.

1. “This is the way the world is” – the world is like that?
2. “I have explained this” – his word is Truth?
3. “I think I lost votes after …..”People do not yet understand the depth of my intelligence?
4. “nobody believed it” – “Not one of the people is as intelligent as me”
5. “…it slowly dawned on them, especially the graduates …”now people especially the smart ones begin to believe that I am Truth……
6. “that you are going to worry about your son ……….” – BANG! This is the TRUTH!

it is good to know that you have made yourself clear that he is wrong, even if your discernment is base on political correctness. and, you are right that emotional sentiments are at play here but then again, would you blame anyone for being emotional with a statement that precisely stabs at the emotions of all and sundry?

[...] by Charles on October 27, 2008 After Lee was quoted in a broadcast news report that he believed assortative mating will produce beneficial result, I was eager to do some research [...]

187) logicalman

i think we can handle this – we are so adapt at multi-tasking remember? thanks to pap?

anyway I think you’re right, we have to get back to focus and give a larger portion of our time to more important issues.

The A team refers to only one man – LKY.
Why don’t the PAP change its name to PAPA A team or PAPA?

he forgot that his parents weren’t graduates but yet they bore all graduates. His theory is flawed, senile and is a sign that the day is near.Let us put up with him for a little while more and he will be history. Let us not get distracted . The issue is still the minibomb structured products.

No worries lah.

MM trying to promote the sales of fake degrees that Chan Soo Sen was peddling the other day.

When our enconomy goes to the shithole in the next 2 years, selling fake degress is recession proof. May even flourish in such difficult times.

We can become the next hub for fake degrees and everyone will be happy that there will always be a university for their children to go to in Singapore.

187) logicalman on October 27th, 2008 9.11 am from the heated reactions to this topic, it’s not hard to see that it’s an excellent distraction. Just days ago, we were discussing about the 21% electricity tariff increase, now that seems history, as though we have let SP off the hook. I can’t think of any company that can raise prices by 21% during a recession and still have captive customers and not just stay afloat but grow.

yes, you are damn right, MM is infact trying to divert the ppl from other more important hikes issues so you ppl would not be able to be united together against him and his ruling party, so all singaporeans must not fall into his trap again and stay united as one voice, no more lies, no more bullshits and stop all the twisting and turning tai chi moves, we citizens of singapore are very sick and tired of it.

I really don’t understand why he will say something like this. So what about graduates? Isn’t all the structured products like High Notes and Jubilee Series created by these so call “intelligent” people. Highly paid to create junk.
Education does not determine a person success or failure in life! If we have a person with high IQ but no good values, isn’t the person similar to Osama bin Laden?

I come from a big family of 12 children.

None of us are graduates.

Yet, all of us are happy in our lives. And all my brothers and sisters are happily married – and with wonderful kids as well. We meet regularly for family dinners, picnics, etc. And my mom is 72 years old. She too married my dad – both of them were not graduates.

Relationships, in any case, is a complex thing. To conveniently distill it into just a sort of “paper-qualifications eligibility” issue is kind of well, simplistic.

As long as we people have a fundamental principle that we strongly believe and upheld, no one, no policies and no any amount of satirical comment is going to influence you in achieving that ultimate goal you had set forth whether with or without being a graduate. May be, just may be, with a graduate degree things might just be a little easier but hey, paper qualifications these days are everywhere, nothing so unique about it but a person’s characteristic is distinctively unique and that is what counts at the end of the day. To say the least, linking paper qualifications to the sanctity of marriage and the intelligence of re-production is just baseless

There are already ample proofs that paper qualification has no direct link to the success of a person. The “success” measuring factor is very individual. Some people equate success with insatiable material wealth, some are practically happy with just pure LOVE and just-enough material wealth to make ends meet.

May be “globalization” had really taken root and became a vicious virus that is quietly infecting the once much caring and compassionate society that it had instill nothing but the bad genes into those GRADUATED COUPLES and their off-springs and fooling them into thinking that is the ONE and ONLY WAY to GUARANTEED a SUCCESSFUL living “in a well may be”. I recommend them to go watch MATRIX and understand thoroughly how it came to an end.

Not too sure if everyone is aware of the “Three women” story which the old man told long time ago. That story provided many an insight into the old man’s believes and his mentatlity. For all his rhetoric, there is always an underlaying motivation driving it. Here is a man who is obsessed to play god to ensure his strangle hold on power is not compromised by even the forces of nature. His social engineering policies and his immigration policies to ensure that the racial composition remains the same at all cost is but an indication of the obsession. I believe to call for graduates to marry graduates is but an indirect approach to ensure that the class structure remains the same. We need the ruling elite class, the super elites, the educated elites, the rich and finally the peasants. We have so many schemes to make sure that the peasants are taken care of including the NCSS, CDCs, WDA etc. But education can make progression up the class ladder possible. There is a difference when you come from say a family of doctors, engineers and lawyers or a poor taxi driver’s son made good. This is the social struture which has to remain. That’s why we need the China and Vietnam brides. We need the lower classes to reproduce to fill their numbers and the elites to do like wise. Movement between the two groups might not be too good to maintain power.

its about time … u know … ppl make stupid comments when their time is almost there …

Ask this old fart, how many of his PAP ministers and mps whose parents are graduates.

What is your ideal of eugenics? ARe scientists encourages to marry scientists, humanities and artistic people with the same sort, or are intimate relations encouraged between two people of different fields of intelligence? What is Singapore’s reproductive stance on the artistic and intelligent? Has the SDU considered that the most logical, passionate, dedicate, intellectual graduates are rebels and non-conformists? In that case surely they ought not be pressured into close proximities as that is selling oneself and ideals? How about creating a generation of truly dedicated professionals or researchers instead of people who merely do law for shallow recognition? Is not passion the main significance in a country’s development. The implementation of these idea may help Singapore to attain a Nobel Prize.

I do not fully agree with his comments. However I have nothing to say to him. My mom is not uni graduate , only O level equilivant. My both bro are uni graduate with ideal job dream in spore and I am graduating end of this year in medical scientist in Australia. What MM Lee said is of subtle discrimination against us. That is fine if he wish to stick to his own opinion, any way I will not work in spore after graduating and will instead contribute my energy and time to Aust govt who certainly respect human rights much significantly more than PAP.
I would like to point out that MM Lee is not God, and he will face his Maker sooner or later. If he die, I am not going to feel sad or lament his great loss.

I couldn’t imagine MM (Mentalist Manipulator) Lee could look down on ordinary, honest, humble and hard-working human beings. No wonder, I understand he often seeks omen from the non-tertiary Abbot at the Bright Hill Temple regarding his life and future just like Macbeth who sought the witches in a cave about his future from warrior to lord to king hereafter.

I came from a family of 11 children among the poorest of the poor in Singapore, born of illiterate parents. Out of the 11 of us, 5 are college professionals, 4 undergrads and 2 postgrads and I’m one of the latter two. All of us married non grads with one exception. In fact, all my 8 nephews and nieces who have completed pre-U, are either in the universities or completed undergrad degrees. I did two post grad degrees concurrently in less than 30 months in one of the world’s best known universities in North America, Harvard. I married a non-grad and all 3 children possess undergrad degrees too. What has he got to say?

Did his albino grandson get to the university? I understand he has a sperm and egg bank for his family to ensure a super Lee race and dynasty. Is this true? Maybe, he believes strongly in producing a super race of Singaporeans who are all graduates.

Take for example, the USA, with the most number of graduates anywhere in the world and many of them have children who are non graduates.

Mentalist Manipulator (MM) LKY’s argument on assortative dating does not hold water, period. Only imbeciles and the gullible believe him.

I supposed to talk rubbish in old age is an old man privilege.We Sinkaporean had grown up and is capable of independence thinking unlike our fore father, first generation from China, India or other part of the world. Many of us hold several degrees and held senior position in oversea companies. LKY is still living in the 50s and his ideas were out dated but no one dare to him. He may be surrounded by many ministers but how many dare to tell him he is wrong? His views and idea had way pass the “sell by date” as the modern world matches. The modern world had in store for us many surprises which we as a country had not even started to address it e.g Global warming and rise of sea level, potential food shortages as a result of global rainfall failure. These are issues countries like S Korean and Saudi Aradia had started to address e.g leasing land in Africa and Central Asia to grow food crop.