TOC interviews some people who turned up at Hong Lim Park, including some investors of structured products.
Update: TOC has been informed that some investors are planning a sit-in protest at DBS’ Shenton Way office building this Wednesday at 10am.
“MAS should do what’s right”, says former NTUC Income chief, Tan Kin Lian, at Speakers’ Corner event which saw more than 1,000 people turn up.
Koh Yi Na
Former NTUC Income Chief Executive, Mr Tan Kin Lian, addressed a crowd of more than 1000 people at Speaker’s Corner in Hong Lim Park yesterday, speaking out for investors who were affected by the recent credit crisis and the loss of their savings invested in financial structured products.
Speaking to a crowd of rather bewildered Singaporean investors, many of whom had lost substantial portions of their life savings, Mr Tan made several proposals for them to seek some form of redress, one of which was a suggestion to organize themselves into groups where investors facing similar predicaments could discuss their respective financial situations and help each other out.
Following Mr Tan’s 10 minute long speech, financial planner and author Mr Leong Sze Hian, took to the stage, and spoke of the importance of diversifying one’s assets. He further explained the maxim “don’t understand, don’t invest”, and advised people to read the fine print on investment documents they signed.
The latter part of Mr Leong’s speech, which was delivered in Mandarin, was welcomed enthusiastically by the largely Mandarin-speaking crowd, largely consisting of middle-aged Singaporeans and retirees, many of whom came with their spouses, children and grandchildren. There were also a number of families and young couples present, all seeking a way to recoup the losses they had incurred, or at the very least, to find someone to explain the situation to them.
Many of the people that The Online Citizen (TOC) spoke to declined to be named, but the frustration, confusion and grief was nonetheless apparent when they spoke on the condition of anonymity. “We didn’t know that our money was going to investment banks,” one man in his 50s told us. “We thought all along that it was just like fixed deposits, very safe, but with a high interest rate. The bank representatives never told us that we could stand to lose so much, just like that.”
Financial structured products – low risk, high returns?
The entire affair began when local banks began offering credit-linked securities in the form of financial structured products, backed by investment bank Lehman Brothers. These structured products included Lehman Minibonds, DBS High Notes 5, Morgan Stanley Pinnacles Notes and Merrill Lynch Jubilee Series 3 LinkEarner Notes.
When Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy in September, Singaporeans, who had bought the structured products with the notion that they were low-risk, high returns investments resembling fixed deposits, found their hard-earned savings gone altogether. Unknown to many of them, the banks reserved the right to forfeit their principal payments should the investment banks fall, and fall they did. These investors found themselves missing thousands, and at times, tens of thousands of dollars, money that had been intended for their children’s educations or their retirement funds.
On 9 October, Mr Tan approached the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS), the governing authority for banks in Singapore, with a petition bearing 983 signatures, addressed to Senior Minister Goh Chok Tong, chairman of MAS. These signatures were gathered from individuals who had encountered the petition on his blog.
The petition appealed for MAS’ assurance that those who had invested in such financial products were not victims of misrepresentation or fraud by these financial institutions, and requested MAS to commence a full and independent inquiry into the sale of structured products by various financial institutions in Singapore. It also asked MAS to help the investors claim adequate compensation for their losses, caused by the misconduct of the banks offering structured products without providing sufficient information.
The event at Speaker’s Corner was meant as a gathering ground for investors who had suffered losses to voice their concerns and seek some form of relief. After the speeches by Mr Tan and Mr Leong at 5pm, investors huddled under various placards bearing titles such as “Pinnacle notes”, “Minibonds”, “High notes”, and “Jubilee notes and others” to discuss the proposals suggested by both speakers.
Redress and recourse
One of these was Mr Tan’s offer of an arrangement he had made with a lawyer for affected investors to make a sworn statement regarding the investment in the structured product, which could later be used to support investors’ complaint to their respective financial institutions and with the Financial Industry Dispute Resolution Center, or FIDREC. References were also made to a potential second petition, and particulars of investors were collected.
At 6pm, Mr Tan repeated his speech for the benefit of those who were unable to hear him the first time round because of the size of the crowd and the limited audio reach of the self-powered amplifier.
For the two to three hours that the event lasted, the field was flooded with people, undoubtedly the most that Speaker’s Corner has seen since it opened in 2001. Many looked lost as they tugged along entire families, and some approached strangers with sheets of paper, on which were written their structured products, banks and the amount of money they had spent on these investments. A substantial number of these were retirees who spoke little or no English, and had not understood the speeches, nor been able to access Mr Tan’s website and the advice located there.
Several passersby and onlookers milled around, listening in on groups of people, or discussing the credit market and structured products among themselves. One middle-aged man told TOC, “I didn’t lose any money from this, but I know some people who have lost their entire life savings, hundreds of thousands.” It was a sentiment that was echoed repeatedly around the field, as scenes of retirees, thirty-somethings and middle-aged Singaporeans breaking down into tears and pleading for help from Mr Tan or Mr Leong were seen.
Expectations of MAS’ actions
TOC met up with Mr Tan towards the end of the event, and asked him what he felt MAS could realistically do to help the investors. A direct answer was not provided, but what he said perhaps captured what most people could hope for: “…The government, MAS, should do what’s right. After all, these people have put their blood, sweat and tears into their jobs, only to lose it all at once.”
At the end of the event, a man in his 60s caught up with us, saying that he did not mind being caught on tape and having the tape aired on the Internet. “We spent our whole lives building up this country from scratch,” he said. “We worked for thirty, forty years, and we saved all our money to put into the bank. More than one hundred thousand dollars, over all these decades.
“Then they got greedy, and they decided to invest all our life savings into companies like Lehman Brothers. And now, we’re the ones who have to pay, because they’re not doing anything for us. We spent our whole lives working for this country, and now our money is gone.”
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You can view the videos of Mr Tan and Mr Leong’s speeches here.
Read also news agencies’ reports:
Irate investors rally in Singapore – AFP.
Angry Lehman investors hold public meeting in Singapore – Reuters.
Singapore investors decry losses from Lehman bonds – International Herald Tribune.
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Pictures by Damien Chng and sj.
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About Koh Yi Na (written report):
Yi Na is a Year 1 Arts student in Junior College. She is involved in debates and fencing, and enjoys reading and writing whenever possible. She would like to see more online platforms like TOC as an alternative voice to the mainstream media, and she believes that change in Singapore is inevitable.
About Teng Jing Wei (video interviewer):
Jingwei is a Year 1 Arts student in Junior College with varied interests. She hopes to study finance and economics at a tertiary level. She is grateful for the opportunities TOC gives her to pursue her deep interest in current affairs and challenge her preconceived notions about local socio-economic issues.
Mervin Lee (videographer, video editor):
Mervin is an 18-year-old student of the Nanyang Academy of Fine Art, majoring in trombone. His interests include Chinese orchestral music, film-making. He also teaches robotics to secondary students on a part-time basis.
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Below is a video of Mr Tan Kin Lian’s interview with the media. (TOC’s own video of interviews will be up soon.)
Investors explain about how they came to invest in structured products:
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Was GCT the one who introduced the CPF investment scheme and got many slaughtered before (token) financial education for the masses was introduced?
9) SevenEleven on October 12th, 2008 1.55 pm
My feelings precisely.
Maybe to singaporeans hikes like 22% on electricity and $10 on telephone are too peanutty to rich singaporeans that they bo chap about things that don’t hurt their pocket much. But when it comes to hundred of thousands or millions, they wake up and hope the nation will help them. the people also need their help on voicing concerns about 22% hike on electricity when oil is so much cheaper now by a whopping 33% drop in oil price.
Now , maybe just maybe, these people are beginning to wake up to the idea that we need to have a culture of voicing up to help people. Now these people hope for people to voice up for them.
sigh…
I am impressed by our ST reporter which wrote that “more than 500″ attended the Hong Lim gathering.
Very creative and believable reporters indeed.
#45 Daniel,
So, by your logic, it means Mr Tan should also not do anything since he is powerless? Let’s just leave it to the Government?
Com’on, even if opposition is powerless, they can still show some leadership. Mr Tan don’t even have any party support and he can start something of this scale.
Clearly, this shows that OUR OPPOSITION IS REALLY NOT UP TO THE CHALLENGE.
After all, we (most of us) elected them into office – so we must have faith in them – that they will act in our best interests. – Rushking (#12)
Most Singaporeans had a GRC walkover in their constitutency during the last General Election. They never voted for PAP. Which planet are you from? The PAP government has been ignoring us for years because they think they know better. From as early as 1969, PAP has already started not listen to public voices. The PAP government passed the Employment Act in 1969 which. T
I don’t believe that with all the noise and complaints, the govt would just ignore us and do nothing. – Rushking (#12)
Noise and complaints are not enough. Take action. Join the small group of protestors at the DBS Sit-In. Or even better, transfer all your funds from DBS/POSB to another local bank.
Why keep your money in the very same bank that had cheated you or your associates? Transferring your funds out from DBS/POSB to another bank is rational / pragmatic choice.
I shifted all my money to Maybank which gives a 0.5% interest higher than DBS for a normal bank account. – Fever Guy (#34)
You even get better interest rate than DBS/POSB. So why not?
Hi Fever Guy #47
“It doesn’t seems right to bail our these investors with tax payer’s money but these are singaporeans we should help.”
I think the real issue here is what is the cost of that “help?” Lets be clear on a few points, I am a taxpayer and so are some of you and even those of you who aren’t paying tax now will eventually have to do so.
So if the cost of that “help” takes the form of increasing the tax of lets say some factory technician who works in Boon Lay, then I say it’s a lousy cost – because I can say that technician was just minding his own business and turning the wheel of life in one quiet corner of Singapore, so why should his tax dollars be used to bail out someone who thought he could ace out on the S&P?
See my point and that is really what the whole issue is all about when we talk about the cost of “help.”
So if you look at these massive bailouts in the US for AIG and Freddie/Fannie as you highlighted, what you FAILED to mentioned there was the cost of “help” to the American tax payer i.e how most ordinary hard working Americans dont see why their tax dollars should even be used to bail out greedy bankers who got themselves into such a fix of their own making.
Now the question is really this, do you as a taxpayer want to see your tax dollar used in that sort of wasteful way?
The way I see it, I am always thinking about the little Joe who has to work a seven day shift and I don’t ever want to see him get taxed one cent more on the account of people who simply didn’t even bother to do their due diligence when they decided to sign on the dotted line.
I know many hundreds of people were affected by this, but I don’t think its fair on millions of Singaporeans and residents either, especially, if they have to bear that cost of “help” on the account of a few.
Thanks.
SD (Internet Liaison officer of the brotherhood)
“So, by your logic, it means Mr Tan should also not do anything since he is powerless? Let’s just leave it to the Government?”
Mr Tan is not from opp party. And I don’t think he want to associate with any opp party. He has once explained why he don’t want to be president too.
If opp parties is not as knowledgable as Mr Tan in area of financial crisis or action then they shold just keep silence and not worsen thing least the government will just accuse the opp party of not offering solution and understanding the problem but just want score political point. Isn’t this happen before ?
It also give the government a excuse for distraction of main issue. Remember the election saga when instead of concentrating on citizen’s need, the focus suddenly become integrity of opp party ?
It obviously this thing happens is because the government’s decision of making Singapore a financial hub at all cost and in shortest time possible, to the point of closing one eyes and over-relaxing regulation. Shortcut this and that, not building the sound fundamental, so long as money is transferred to the economy to boost the GDP and to make Singapore look good (isn’t minister’s KPI pegg to all these thing ?). Anything to make financial hub look good with image but without substance. (Am I surprised that Singapore is the first of Asian country to hit recession ?)
The government is the best position to understand all these given that they are the one approve and make the decision of financial products and services. Now I see the government try to distance themselve from all these issues as Lucky Tan indicates. I applaud Mr Tan for knowledge and effort. He is former CEO of NTUC Income, and therefore understand the issue of financial industry.The government will probably think it is more safe to use Mr Tan than opp party, after all Mr Tan is once a government guy, and therefore will resolve issue more amicably with the gov.
So we should ask where is those government decision-makers behind those products ? Where and who perform the check and balance ?
So should opp party keep quiet ? Not unless they understand the situation well enough and they can confidently debate the issues. If they can’t even understand the situation now, how can they act ?
#34 Dear Fever Guy
You may not know, May-Bank(MB) is one of the bigger, if not the biggest Mini-Bomb(MB) maker.
Be careful, don’t get conned when your +0.5 % FD mature!!
MB is not a angel either.
Don’t believe, go and find out and back to thank me.
This is an extension to #53
After all, we (most of us) elected them into office – so we must have faith in them – that they will act in our best interests. - Rushking (#12)
Most Singaporeans had a GRC walkover in their constitutency during the last General Election. They never voted for PAP. Which planet are you from? The PAP government has been ignoring us for years because they think they know better.
From as early as 1968, PAP has already started not listen to public voices. Let´s walk down memory lane into Singapore´s trade union history to further elaborate my points.
The PAP government passed the Employment Act in 1968 which at that time increased standard weekly working hours from 39 to 44; cut number of public holidays from 15 to 11 per year, decreased number of rest days, days of sick leave and days of paid annual leave; limited the amount of bonus payout for workers; and curtailed retrenchment benefits for workers.
PAP´s response to Unionś opposition to the Employment Act was two-fold. PAP first amended the Industrial Relations Act to hand over the right to hire, fire, promote, transfer and retrench workers without union interference to Management. This was followed by sending Devan Nair to take over NTUC and quiver dissident voices in NTUC. All this happened in 1968.
If Singaporeans don´t take action to keep PAP in check, Singaporeans will definitely have no future in Singapore. Is it hardly a wonder that so many Singaporeans now choose to emigrate while an increasing number who work abroad choose to reject their citizenship?
The HKMA issued this statement on the 12th. Oct 2008.
“Banks or their staff found to have misled customers may be fined or censured or may have their business licences suspended.”
MAS should come out to say something on the same vein that any RMs or financial consultants who flouted Section 27 of the FAA will be punished. This should send
a strong message to the financial industry salespeople not to mess around with the section 27 and with consumers’ hard earned money.
Perhaps cut off a few heads and hang them at Ngee Ann City and Raffles Place .
This will also remind that insurance agents are included and section 27 will be their noose too especially the mdrt, cot and tot qualifiers.
zhummmeng,
It’s quite a difference the way the S’pore central bank (MAS) and the HK’s central bank handled the whole situation.
S’pore’s MAS basically left the investors to the “sharks” – even giving the banks the option to appoint their own “independent” investigators. MAS had to backtracked when people criticised them for it.
In short, the MAS, under an ex-PM, is woefully inept in handling this issue.
Wonder why we’re paying them millions, huh?
Andrew
Correction to my earlier post (#4):
The crap reply to Lily Neo was given spewed by Mrs Yu-Foo Yee Shoon on the issue of aid for Public Assistance recepients. ‘You want to cover up to 30 per cent, 40 per cent or 50 per cent?’ Honest mistake.
“S’pore’s MAS basically left the investors to the “sharks” – even giving the banks the option to appoint their own “independent” investigators. ”
Remember Mas Selamat’s case. The so-called Independent Committee with all pro-gov members. Look like “conflict of interest” is never in the elite’s dictionary, or is it been censored ?
“In short, the MAS, under an ex-PM, is woefully inept in handling this issue.”
Now we know why pinkish clown want to step down. The story finally unfolded and we thought GST explanation is the only pertinent issue, look like something even bigger than that.
Sorry, Tharman, you are screwed. Since you are PM now, can you give us a account of Singapore’s finance health ? No, not paper money that only validated by uncredible’s mouth but Real CASH AND ASSET account.
to our dear pap:
i had enough of these nosense crap by the pap. whenever u say u want to help us (eg ease the traffic, better public transport, better education system etc etc), u juz increase the price. so please don’t help us next time cos i also can be minister myself
from the stupid responses from various recent saga EITHER show how alienated our ‘first class’ govt is from the people OR they juz simply think that all singaporean are plain stupid. to quote 3 key eg below
1) pm lee & various ministers have been warning us recently regarding the economic slowdowns & more retrenchements are expected.
c’mon, we think we cannot see it for ourselves? we do not need to pay millions dollars to you to hear these plain obvious remarks.
we want your propose & specific soultions! whenever economy is doing well, you claim credit. when economy is doing badly, you blame other countries
2) response from the recent hike in electricity, they clim that it was not due to f1 race as various racing teams brought their generators. then who power up the extra street & buildings lights to make them extra bright? you mean the racing teams also brought in the generators to power up these? c’mon please think of a more convincing lie or else how can we continue to pay you more than world class pay?
3) pm lee in one of the earlier national speech, presumably too eager to show how ‘close’ as he was to heartlander, cited ‘mee siam my hum (no cockle)’. i almost fainted on spots. since when mee siam got hum? you have been eating too much palace food all these while! so please do your homework next time & cook out a better lie….
anyway, i am migrating with my family in a month time. if you still think that pap can be trusted, then go & eat your mee siam ‘my hum’….haha
I, a robbery victim ran to the Police stAtion for helP.
The Policeman says why come to me, go to the day-light-robbers. They pay for a private investigator (PI), not see you but check the robber’s report. If the robbers admit that they do rob yout. I will fine them.
The day-light-robber is laughting at the bank. The policemen is getting their pay check. It really drive me NuT. .
No one knows what to do. Whole nations, at least the entire world of finance and investment, are presently watching the unraveling of money—the “only critical ingredient of life!” No one knows what to do. Politicians are acting without integrity—but that is not new. Large banks are having to assert their liquidity, and the louder the assertions, the harder it is to believe them! – Dr. Ramesh Richard quote-unqoute. Psalms 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. Centre Verse Of The Bible
He [the Beast] exerts all the power and right of control . . .
He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no-one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man’s number. His number is 666. [Revelation 13:12, 16-18]
Preparing the Stage For End Time Events! Time to look things from a very very long perspective and investment. Think Eternal!
First, I’d like to congratulate Kin Lian for his consuming passion and leadership in this diabolical issue that plagued the lifeblood of innocent victims, particularly the illiterate, the less educated, the ordinary citizen, the retirees and even the so-called investment gurus.
It’s time not to finger-point, blame, digress and be overly rhetoric. It’s time to ACT and stay focussed on CONCERTED ACTION and RESULTS.
What Kin Lian has spoken and proposed is in the right direction for all victims of such financial scandals of enormous magnitude that hit SIN, supposedly a top financial hub in Asia and around the globe with top global financial talents and experts.
I would like to add that in the event of CLASS ACTION, the victims should engage the best and most well-known legal firm in SIN and/or in the region and beyond, to see concrete results in the context in SIN. None other will do the job.
MAS regulatory and supervisory controls and mechanisms should be revamped and strengthened to meet the challenges posed by globalised financial systems and markets. Even the US financial system is not immuned to frauds, manipulations, misrepresentations and loopholes that brought about the world’s worst financial tsunami of unprecedented proportions in our 21st century civilization.
How the MAS and its enforcement arm, CAD and other related regulatory authorities resolve this financial heist will speak volumes for SIN’s multi-million dollar leadership and its integrity.
All the ministers should sacfrice 9/10 of their pays for one year to help the bondholders.
Anyway, their 1/10 of their pay and allowance is much more that the life-savings of many affected.
Hope to have more such meetings
# 53) New pepper on October 12th, 2008 9.39 pm I am impressed by our ST reporter which wrote that “more than 500″ attended the Hong Lim gathering.
Hats off to the ST photographer…..who almost alreadys capture thing in a unique angle…you are the best
In Tan K L’s blog, Maybank toxic investments have the most number of petitioners. Other banks and investment houses, as well as brokers are also guilty of selling such high risk products.
So why are we targetting only DBS – POSB? Is it because it is the closest to the government? Are we letting our sentiments cloud our judgement?
All of them should be targetted, including the relative inaction by MAS.
RM’s are ( at least most of them ) also simple people like us, trying to earn a living. Their top people put pressure on them to push such products. Many too are suffering and perhaps even more depressed than the investors.
We should target the top people.
This is also a good opportunity for the Opposition Parties to show the importance of having a credible opposition in the government.
It is also an opportunity for the new MPs to show that they can go through the trial by fire, in carrying out their duties as representatives of the people’s voice.
However, apart from Tan K L and the unfortunate investors’ voices, the silence is deafening!
Incidentally, I almost bought the Citrine Notes from Merryl Lynch. I still have the prospectus, which even with a degree in English language, I simply could not understand!
Gerald Giam says that Opposition should speak up for investors. Maybe so. But, really, the PAP lawmakers are the ones who must do so.
Singaporeans should also see that the opposition, namely, SDP that has been pushing for transparency and accountability by the authorities. In addition they have been the party that has been advocating for freedom of expression and assembly. Without these, you have a govt that is not responsive to the citizenry. That is why you have Goh Chok Tong saying “that’s life” and then to rub salt into our wounds by saying that we should have left our $$ in CPF. What a load of crap coming from a senior statesman. But look at Hong Kong. The investors are getting their money back and they are being helped by the lawmakers!
Singaporeans should really wake up and see that democracy, which leads to a more responsive govt, freedom of speech and assembly are important. This unfortunate episode has amply demonstrated this.
@ sobri,
It is even more important for the PAP MPs to speak up for the people. The majority of citizens gave them 82 seats in parliament and at this moment not one has spoken out. Not joking on this, right ?
This is proof to the people that we need a more balance representation.
At this moment Tan Kin Lian can do with some help from those who hold pro govt positions, since the PAP have been indifferent.
lim, give your legal input on seeking redress or whatever options.
smallvoice585, educate these investors on the big political picture and why this govt cannot be faulted.
newold, give these investors the assurance that this govt is “no horse run”, so nothing to worry.
Where is MM, so quiet now, his son worse, dare not speak a word, all push to peanut Goh. Hmm, Pap, Pap… your days are numbered.
Singapore who is always boasting of being no. 1 in everything is also the first in asia to rollover without even trying to work out a solution to this global crisis while the rest of the world is.
Glad to see its true to its nature.
Hi,
wallstreet web dictionary provides this definition of Transparency :
transparency = The FULL, accurate, and timely disclosure of information.
Based on above definition, why is the world Transparency used to describe a company that does not disclose fully ? By definition, it should be ALL or NOTHING. 1 or 0 and nothing in-between. Either a company is Transparent (i.e FULLy transparent) or it is not. It would be wrong to describe a company as x % transparent. There is no such thing! correct me if i wrong.
I believe it sounds nice to investors when a company is described as Transparent. But my concern is the proper usage of the word.
My understanding is there is no such thing as how many percent Transparent. A company can only be described as Transparent when it provides Full Disclosure, by definition.
Thus, I am suggesting, for fairness and appropriateness, another word should be used to describe so-called , eg. , ’70% transparent’ companies.
What say you?
regards
Propagada
Hearing the interviews, I feel so sad that these retired people have been conned by the banks.
MAS has failed these people and Goh Chok Tong has rubbed salt.
PTC has failed and we have poor transport rides.
EMA has written to ST to explain, but we still do not know if we pay tariffs based on oil prices, who makes money – the indonesians who sells us gas, or Singapore Power who makes billions of profit last year.
They will not adjust the tariffs – so that govt do not go broke to subsidies us as shown to be the case in Malaysia – ??!!??
Or so that Singapore power will not make lesser profits?
Do we all need to go to Hong Lim when we all see the power bills this October, or will EMA do something now to adjust the expectaitons of people and allow Singapore Power to earn lesser off its citizens?
Sometimes PTC / MAS can bluff us some time, but the government cannot expect to bluff us all the time.
Sympathy to investors who lost!!! They ought to act like an investors and take things in their stride! Somewhat a ‘selfish’ group I would say! They would have kept quiet if reaping in profits and now running with tails in between their legs..crying foul and seeking help! NO BAIL OUT!
Arrest your losses and readdress your next move………. making and loosing is part & parcel of all investments — many out there who have made and lost thru inverstments and most hurtful for those who used their CPF!!! One can not learn ‘experience’ but can only go thru one and this is a learning exeperience for many!!!
Singaporeans united when comes to $$ matters or those who are affected in the Lehman Bros minibond saga……
The large turnout at Hong Lim is an “eye-opener” especially it has since been so long that we see any form of rally in Singapore……
I sure hope to see more of such close to heart topic been discussed at Hong Lim that are chair by respectable speaker who can pack a punch to help the more “hand-tied” Singaporean who are not so well versed with the business law or legislation law.
Mr. Tan Kin Lian, I salute you!
We need to bluntly and honestly ask ourselves
will business be protected vs will these investors be protected more?
is sg like HK ?
no idea der.
No one knows how long the valuations or investigations will take. These investors will just have to wait for the outcome.
#74, “Gerald Giam says that Opposition should speak up for investors. Maybe so. But, really, the PAP lawmakers are the ones who must do so.”
We know that PAP lawmakers are the one who have the power to move things.
However, what we want is that Opposition demonstrate leadership and show that they care for their own.
So, Why is MR TAN , an independent doing this? It is because he cares enough to stand up and take leadership. Even THE ONLINE CITIZEN group of independents.
So, what does that says about your very organised opposition teams? They are utterly useless. They do not have leadership capabilities.
There is conspire that says a new strategy is in motion ……cannot say too…muchie….Opposition may …..no…..longer…
would it be unfair to say that Majority Singaporeans do not Voice Up? And do not usually Voice Up for the those facing hardship like hikes?
If not unfair to say that, then do these investors now complaining deserve someone to Voice Up for them?
I like the whole country to think about Community Spirit and not just only for yourself like when you lose your money then only you voice up. We need a national level education to wake up all singaporeans to teach them that there should be a Mature Culture of Speaking Up on ALL Social issues affecting not just one person but ALL the middleclass and lower class singaporeans.
When they need someone to Voice Up for them, were they not grateful that Mr Tan was there FREE of Charge for them?
Singaporeans, Please wake up for your own salvation.
An Extremely Pragmatic society sometimes may think of SELF only or SELF 1st.
When this happens, neigbors don’t speak to one another, people do not voice up on the plight of the poor or suffering and lower and middle class.
When GREED is thought as right and Money is thought as purpose and meaning of life, when you Serve your boss to serve yourself more so than to serve your other people, then you are a Kang. In tough times, can you fight for the needy or just cover own backside?
At times, we need to do the right thing and not always only do things for ownself only. We need to contribute to society by SPEAKING Up for the less fortunate, the needy and the middle and lower class. At times, we need to do our ‘NS’ by focussing more on the Ideals and Noble acts.
When you need help, then only more people will help you.
I agree that people should wake up their ideas!
Lets hope in future these people and all the people do not have to worry about their OTHER LIFE SAVINGS if you know wtf i mean?
We cannot tell what will happen in future but we better have a culture of socially conscious talents willing to step up and Voice Up for people who cannot access their Life Time Savings.
Imagine, if these investors need money badly after the loss, would it be of great help if they can tap on their OTHER SAVINGS frozen up somewhere?
But who will voice up for them when most people do not even voice up at all ?
TW and basically any other 1st world democracies have very established Voice-Up Culture with many talents voicing up for them and they have many alternative voice TV stations that air different opinions unlike ….any issue, you can bet there are talents who step up and focus and pursue on the issue for the people, demanding answers, helping the weak and meek and powerless question what needs to be questioned.
Alas, Dr chee and sis is said by the press to be sued a whopping $610K. I wonder what message this news has to send to people? What a timing….
Guess why ?
Just to clarify on the above a bit more :
“We cannot tell what will happen in future but we better have a culture of socially conscious talents willing to step up and Voice Up for people who cannot access their Life Time Savings.
”
I mean IF there is a similar problem like the current investment boo boo were to ever happen again in future like when some people about to retire. ;)
88) see Pee and then F-off on October 13th, 2008 9.52 pm
Alas, Dr chee and sis is said by the press to be sued a whopping $610K. I wonder what message this news has to send to people? What a timing….
Obviously everyone of us could have guess what would happen to Dr Chee and his sis. It’s nothing new here in Sg. Not that they are the first opp members being sued for defamation, there are already a string of such similar cases before. As long as the ruling party feels its a thread to them, this kind of scenerio will repeat on till no one dare to defy them. Sure the accumulated total sum awarded in all these defamation thingy till today can really buy down a block of condos in sg. Wonder who’s the next opp. contributor be.
tiredsingaporean (#90),
The road ahead is tough but if we stop fighting for our rights, it is inevitable that all our rights will be taken away from us.
V S RAAJ,
Rather than just blame Singapore investor, why not ask yourself if there is something wrong with the practice of Singapore bank that put misleading information and half-truth onto financial product and let it sell by people who lack the understanding of the product to the public.
If there is nothing wrong, I urge the DBS in Hong Kong not to compensate these so called Hong Kong investor then. The very fact that DBS compensate HK investors entirely as they afraid that HK will suspend DBS license speak of the fact itself. Given that DBS has Temasek stakeholder and ministers in charge, why did DBS not resort to lawsuit to settle the problem after all HOng Kong investors must be “stupid” to buy these investment product from DBS without understanding the product they buying, and that it should be none of the DBS problem.
So obviously there are more than meet these eyes than to blame investors for been greedy. I concur with Mr Tan that there is something wrong with financial investment practice of selling financial product.
Just because arrogant Singapore GLCs managed to hookwink its way in Singapore doesn’t mean they will be successful in other country like Thailand, Australia, Hong Kong with strong human right and democracy.
oh, only when the fire start burning yr house then u start to shout for help. other time when others are crying for help , u just lock yr door and sleep comfortablly in yr cosy home. go to the park now & shout all u want for yr money cos i will be laughing behind the trees . to each his own. relax & trust the authority to help u. thanks for the faith u have for these money grabbing monster, now look forward for them to assist u in getting yr saving back. fark hope……..
Guys, Guys, Guys
We need to maintain group unity against DBS andl MAS.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporebusinessnews/view/382531/1/.html
DBS has started a divide-and-conquer strategy against the collective efforts of retail investors.
I’m utterly disappointed with SM Goh’s comment on the losses of Lehman Brothers related credit linked notes that poor investors had to bear the consequence of inadequate supervision on financial products and inappropriate financial advisory practices. As the chairperson of MAS, he is in conflict by merely dismissing that those investors had to take high risks for high return, not knowing that many of them had only very average return from those investments. This is the most insensitive comment I’ve ever heard from SM.
When all of us hear about very wise advices published in the media about pitfalls of such high risks investments, I also want to point out that the same group of people created misleading information about these products when minibond was first launched locally in 2006.
http://chuamengteck.blogspot.com/2008/10/educating-retail-investors-on-caveat.html
My only conclusion is everything is somehow coordinated in this country whenever something is in the spotlight. When it is still good, people such up to it (even when they know nuts!). When it turns bad, everyone starts to spit on it. I hope the media can have some spine of their own and not acting like the tongues of parties with vested interests. For example, making mends by reporting how responsible the bank relation officers are and how professional they are… (and making those interviews sound so clinical). The fact is no man on the street is going to believe what bank relation officers say these days after many bad experiences. Hopefully this memory stays with people.
“DBS has started a divide-and-conquer strategy against the collective efforts of retail investors.”
“DBS has said it would take responsibility if customers are able to give evidence of mis-selling in relation to products affected by the collapse of Lehman Brothers.”
I find that ridiculous. Why not DBS try it in Hong Kong if they insist that there is no wrong doing ? Why even give HK investors the full return then, cannot case-by-case basis with HK mah ? Singaporean so good to bully compare to foreigner ?
Are they now pushing the responsibility back to the agent that sell the product to the customer. So what will happen to those agent then ? Fire ? So either the agent get screw or the customer get crew ?
It reminds me of Mas Selamat’s saga. Could we recall then that leadership is not to blame but the guards who guard Selamat after all it is the guard’s negligence nothing with WongCan’tSing. Did we see the same pattern happening now ?
Do we need to put another so-called Independent Committee of Enquiry ?
“The valuation is determined by the market and DBS has warned that some customers could lose their entire investment.”
Oh yeah… let it happen to HK first before replying to Singapore investor then. Don’t give double standard.
Suggest people wait and see what they do in Hong Kong first. Don’t be foolish to accept the condition in Singapore without monitoring Hong Kong.
Base on what ground do they give Hong Kong’s privilege ?
“#71: Hats off to the ST photographer…..who almost alreadys capture thing in a unique angle…you are the best”
My first reaction also… especially when compared to the photo in the Chinese papers!
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/382603/1/.html
CNA says only 100 people turned up : ) TOC report 1000
So who is exaggerating ? : )
Let us keep on asking important questions, if MAS refuses to act.
Let us continue to ask – why are electricity prices charged at oil tariffs instead of gas prices – is it the cost paid to Indonesia gas producers, or is it to enrich Singapore powers.
Let us hope EMAS change the pricing structure of our electricity tariffs, before citizens find a need to convene at Hong Lim again end of this month with their power bills, , if TOC members wish to arrange this again.
I will go!
“Update: TOC has been informed that some investors are planning a sit-in protest at DBS’ Shenton Way office building this Wednesday at 10am.”
The Wednesday sit-in is illegal, according to the police advisory reported by CNA below.
“Police urge public to air grievances in lawful manner
By Margaret Perry, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 14 October 2008 0118 hrs
SINGAPORE: Singapore police have advised the public to air their grievances in a lawful manner such as at Speakers’ Corner or to apply for an assembly permit if they want to use an indoor venue.
In a statement, police reminded the public that a demonstration in a public place without prior approval from the authorities may be deemed to be an illegal assembly.
The police advisory was in response to media queries following a DBS statement on Monday about its High Notes 5 and Constellation Series restructured products.
Over the weekend, hundreds turned up at the Speakers’ Corner at Hong Lim Park to voice their concerns over the current financial turmoil. – CNA/d”
Upset investors turn up at Speakers’ Corner
By Imelda Saad, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 11 October 2008 2310 hrs
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/382114/1/.html
SINGAPORE: More than 1,000 people, who lost hard-earned savings investing in structured products like Lehman Minibonds and DBS High Notes, turned up at the Speakers’ Corner on Saturday evening.