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	<title>Comments on: Nation-building or party-building?</title>
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		<title>By: Singlish</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/nation-building-or-party-building/comment-page-3/#comment-29669</link>
		<dc:creator>Singlish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 09:20:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2447#comment-29669</guid>
		<description>I would certainly hope that Singaporean living overseas can speak out for the country sake. 

From statistics, we know that many Singaporean living overseas still hold Singapore passport, not giving up Singapore citizenship, but do not like to stay in Singapore because of the &quot;Freedom&quot; we are having here, the political enviroment, ever escalating living cost but not match in the personal earning, the widening of income gap and paying a big sum for a property that you can&#039;t really call your own (99 years lease). 
 
Our fellow overseas Singaporean certainly have a sense of belonging to the country, Singapore. Otherwise, they would have taken up citizenship of their residing country and given up the Singapore citizenship. Thus this proof that the country Singapore is still their home. But they look to have the environment to be changed.
 
Living overseas definitely have their own set of problems. Some countries have high tax, but compensated by government subsidies, higher salary and cheaper housing. 
 
Security may not be as good as Singapore, but there is a great sense of freedom and openess in expression.
 
From these you can tell that they are able to cope with some short coming of that country and able to enjoy the freedom that the country can offer to their lives.
 
Human being want to live a meaningful and enjoyable life. No one would want to be living a stressful life, worrying if they can continue to pay their bills, or afraid in saying the wrong thing and get sued or put behind bars. Getting fine for doing this and doing that. Having to work till you die just to have  a roof over your head. Is this what life is all about - working and paying tax?
 
Hope that a capable opposition can transform Singapore into a country where citizens are people of the country and not workers of the economy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would certainly hope that Singaporean living overseas can speak out for the country sake. </p>
<p>From statistics, we know that many Singaporean living overseas still hold Singapore passport, not giving up Singapore citizenship, but do not like to stay in Singapore because of the &#8220;Freedom&#8221; we are having here, the political enviroment, ever escalating living cost but not match in the personal earning, the widening of income gap and paying a big sum for a property that you can&#8217;t really call your own (99 years lease). </p>
<p>Our fellow overseas Singaporean certainly have a sense of belonging to the country, Singapore. Otherwise, they would have taken up citizenship of their residing country and given up the Singapore citizenship. Thus this proof that the country Singapore is still their home. But they look to have the environment to be changed.</p>
<p>Living overseas definitely have their own set of problems. Some countries have high tax, but compensated by government subsidies, higher salary and cheaper housing. </p>
<p>Security may not be as good as Singapore, but there is a great sense of freedom and openess in expression.</p>
<p>From these you can tell that they are able to cope with some short coming of that country and able to enjoy the freedom that the country can offer to their lives.</p>
<p>Human being want to live a meaningful and enjoyable life. No one would want to be living a stressful life, worrying if they can continue to pay their bills, or afraid in saying the wrong thing and get sued or put behind bars. Getting fine for doing this and doing that. Having to work till you die just to have  a roof over your head. Is this what life is all about &#8211; working and paying tax?</p>
<p>Hope that a capable opposition can transform Singapore into a country where citizens are people of the country and not workers of the economy.</p>
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		<title>By: gemami</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/nation-building-or-party-building/comment-page-3/#comment-29576</link>
		<dc:creator>gemami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 00:48:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2447#comment-29576</guid>
		<description>Maybe I am looking a little too far ahead and being overly optimistic in my vision for a Singapore that is free from the stanglehold of the current PAP govt. In order for this vision to materialise it has to move in stages.

1.  this platform has to attract a regular audience 
2.  never mind if the audience is a non-participative one (visitors must want to re-visit again and again)
3.  this audience has to continue to grow
4.  it needs to be honest and speaks the voice of the people as spoken by the people.
5.  it has to provide an unbias conclusion to all issues
6.  it has to provide unbias alternative solutions 
7.  it has to engage both the govt and alternatives alike
8.  it has to be inclusive - accepting views from all quarters 
9.  it has to be fair by allowing all views to be shared, regardless...

As for your doubt that both govt and alternative parties may not want to engage themselves here; well, we can always force the hand can&#039;t we? One thing is for sure, should the voice at TOC gets louder and louder, any of the politcal parties ignoring it will be doing harm to themselves, won&#039;t it? 

How can we force their hands?

Very simple. Go to the parties&#039; websites and bring over some of their articles to TOC for scrutiny &amp; discussion. These are ready-made and we can then get a real picture of how Singaporeans feel towards those comments. 

We will be freeing up the hearts and minds and souls of Singaporeans by giving them the opportunity to write their own comments; their own news; so to speak. Then we&#039;ll have a discourse that delves deeper into these remarks and comments with the purpose of coming up with alternative solutions.

So, whether you are in the govt camp or the opposition camp, all issues will have to withstand the closer scrutiny of Singaporeans. This is for the benefit of a better Singapore - a democratic Singapore where each Singaporean has a role to play.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe I am looking a little too far ahead and being overly optimistic in my vision for a Singapore that is free from the stanglehold of the current PAP govt. In order for this vision to materialise it has to move in stages.</p>
<p>1.  this platform has to attract a regular audience<br />
2.  never mind if the audience is a non-participative one (visitors must want to re-visit again and again)<br />
3.  this audience has to continue to grow<br />
4.  it needs to be honest and speaks the voice of the people as spoken by the people.<br />
5.  it has to provide an unbias conclusion to all issues<br />
6.  it has to provide unbias alternative solutions<br />
7.  it has to engage both the govt and alternatives alike<br />
8.  it has to be inclusive &#8211; accepting views from all quarters<br />
9.  it has to be fair by allowing all views to be shared, regardless&#8230;</p>
<p>As for your doubt that both govt and alternative parties may not want to engage themselves here; well, we can always force the hand can&#8217;t we? One thing is for sure, should the voice at TOC gets louder and louder, any of the politcal parties ignoring it will be doing harm to themselves, won&#8217;t it? </p>
<p>How can we force their hands?</p>
<p>Very simple. Go to the parties&#8217; websites and bring over some of their articles to TOC for scrutiny &amp; discussion. These are ready-made and we can then get a real picture of how Singaporeans feel towards those comments. </p>
<p>We will be freeing up the hearts and minds and souls of Singaporeans by giving them the opportunity to write their own comments; their own news; so to speak. Then we&#8217;ll have a discourse that delves deeper into these remarks and comments with the purpose of coming up with alternative solutions.</p>
<p>So, whether you are in the govt camp or the opposition camp, all issues will have to withstand the closer scrutiny of Singaporeans. This is for the benefit of a better Singapore &#8211; a democratic Singapore where each Singaporean has a role to play.</p>
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		<title>By: tiredsingaporean</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/nation-building-or-party-building/comment-page-3/#comment-29502</link>
		<dc:creator>tiredsingaporean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 15:03:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2447#comment-29502</guid>
		<description>Yes, I do hope to but then again I doubt any of the present alternative party members would want to participate nor do members of the ruling would dare to involve fearing of speaking the wrong things again. However, I think it would be better if there are anyone or organisations from outside sources to contribute (lets say members from any other countries who have the sympathy and understanding towards the people of singapore).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I do hope to but then again I doubt any of the present alternative party members would want to participate nor do members of the ruling would dare to involve fearing of speaking the wrong things again. However, I think it would be better if there are anyone or organisations from outside sources to contribute (lets say members from any other countries who have the sympathy and understanding towards the people of singapore).</p>
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		<title>By: gemami</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/nation-building-or-party-building/comment-page-2/#comment-29498</link>
		<dc:creator>gemami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:45:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2447#comment-29498</guid>
		<description>99) tiredsingaporean 

We need to get some oppostion politicians onto this site. 

For example, Low Thia Kiang can share with us what his plans are for the next GE and what we can hope from the WP and then allow us to give feedback and comments, it will not only allow us to know exactly what WP stands for but also allow us to help him shape his ideas.

We need to draw the PAP govt into discussions on this platform. I am sure the issues raised by the opposition on this platform will be taken up by the govt and then we can engaged them over here instead of Shitty Times and all those pro-PAP news tools. They cannot ignore comments made by opposition politicians. It is too fearful of losing votes especially when it is from a medium that they cannot control.

Yah, sure - the PAP stooges will jump in with their two cents worth of threats and what not but who will care what they say - this is blogosphere - where each Singaporean has a mind of his/her own.

I do understand that the opposition might need to keep their issues and strategies under wraps before the GE but then again is it necessary? So what if their positions are made known to all of Singapore? 

It does not matter if the msm tear them apart. We can balance things out over here at TOC.

Singaporeans are also no longer that trusting on what they read and hear from the msm. We must continue to show Singaporeans that the msm is not credible and work only for the PAP govt. In fact, it goes even farther by working against the people.

Singaporeans can only stand to gain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>99) tiredsingaporean </p>
<p>We need to get some oppostion politicians onto this site. </p>
<p>For example, Low Thia Kiang can share with us what his plans are for the next GE and what we can hope from the WP and then allow us to give feedback and comments, it will not only allow us to know exactly what WP stands for but also allow us to help him shape his ideas.</p>
<p>We need to draw the PAP govt into discussions on this platform. I am sure the issues raised by the opposition on this platform will be taken up by the govt and then we can engaged them over here instead of Shitty Times and all those pro-PAP news tools. They cannot ignore comments made by opposition politicians. It is too fearful of losing votes especially when it is from a medium that they cannot control.</p>
<p>Yah, sure &#8211; the PAP stooges will jump in with their two cents worth of threats and what not but who will care what they say &#8211; this is blogosphere &#8211; where each Singaporean has a mind of his/her own.</p>
<p>I do understand that the opposition might need to keep their issues and strategies under wraps before the GE but then again is it necessary? So what if their positions are made known to all of Singapore? </p>
<p>It does not matter if the msm tear them apart. We can balance things out over here at TOC.</p>
<p>Singaporeans are also no longer that trusting on what they read and hear from the msm. We must continue to show Singaporeans that the msm is not credible and work only for the PAP govt. In fact, it goes even farther by working against the people.</p>
<p>Singaporeans can only stand to gain.</p>
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		<title>By: tiredsingaporean</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/nation-building-or-party-building/comment-page-2/#comment-29487</link>
		<dc:creator>tiredsingaporean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 13:31:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2447#comment-29487</guid>
		<description>98) gemami on November 3rd, 2008 8.33 pm 97) patriot 

You are absolutely right. We have to start believing in the power that we yield in our hands. 
Absolutely correct Gem, if the alternative parties just sit and do nothing, then this will ultimately allowing the ruling party to start punching them like sandbags and claiming all the things they can do for the people when the time comes. Doubting whether you can do the job well for the first time is already as bad as not being able to take up the position confidently, remember how many trial and error did the ruling party gone thru since they take over office all these years? The people needs now is a sincere party, a party that can really look into the eyes of the citizens and say &#039;YES&#039; we can and we will do the right things for you. Look, singapore will still be progressing ahead with or without the present party, ask any sensible adults in the street and they will tell you the truth, the success of singapore is in the singaporeans themselves, and no one else can claim this except the citizens of singapore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>98) gemami on November 3rd, 2008 8.33 pm 97) patriot </p>
<p>You are absolutely right. We have to start believing in the power that we yield in our hands.<br />
Absolutely correct Gem, if the alternative parties just sit and do nothing, then this will ultimately allowing the ruling party to start punching them like sandbags and claiming all the things they can do for the people when the time comes. Doubting whether you can do the job well for the first time is already as bad as not being able to take up the position confidently, remember how many trial and error did the ruling party gone thru since they take over office all these years? The people needs now is a sincere party, a party that can really look into the eyes of the citizens and say &#8216;YES&#8217; we can and we will do the right things for you. Look, singapore will still be progressing ahead with or without the present party, ask any sensible adults in the street and they will tell you the truth, the success of singapore is in the singaporeans themselves, and no one else can claim this except the citizens of singapore.</p>
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		<title>By: gemami</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/nation-building-or-party-building/comment-page-2/#comment-29482</link>
		<dc:creator>gemami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 12:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2447#comment-29482</guid>
		<description>97) patriot 

You are absolutely right. We have to start believing in the power that we yield in our hands. 

I think the biggest form of fear we are seeing here is the fear of uncertainty. I strongly believe there are many out there who want change but when they look around at the options available to them, they must feel they have no choice. Change becomes a dirty word not worth looking into. To have change is to be able to choose another quality alternative.

For this reason, our alternative parties must really take a good look at themselves in the mirror and ask if they are doing Singaporeans any favour by not taking the trouble to draw up their plans for a Singapore under alternative rule.

They have to tell us what are the policies they want to keep, which are the ones they want to relook into, which are the ones that they want to throw out and then what other new policies they want to introduce. There has to be a blueprint. never mind if it fails under the scrutiny of the PAP govt. I am sure the public would expect such an outcome anyway.

The important thing is to show Singaporeans that they can plan and that they have Singapore&#039;s interest at heart. This is the option Singaporeans are looking out for and will surely support when quality choice is available. It&#039;s been proven by CST. JBJ &amp; LTK.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>97) patriot </p>
<p>You are absolutely right. We have to start believing in the power that we yield in our hands. </p>
<p>I think the biggest form of fear we are seeing here is the fear of uncertainty. I strongly believe there are many out there who want change but when they look around at the options available to them, they must feel they have no choice. Change becomes a dirty word not worth looking into. To have change is to be able to choose another quality alternative.</p>
<p>For this reason, our alternative parties must really take a good look at themselves in the mirror and ask if they are doing Singaporeans any favour by not taking the trouble to draw up their plans for a Singapore under alternative rule.</p>
<p>They have to tell us what are the policies they want to keep, which are the ones they want to relook into, which are the ones that they want to throw out and then what other new policies they want to introduce. There has to be a blueprint. never mind if it fails under the scrutiny of the PAP govt. I am sure the public would expect such an outcome anyway.</p>
<p>The important thing is to show Singaporeans that they can plan and that they have Singapore&#8217;s interest at heart. This is the option Singaporeans are looking out for and will surely support when quality choice is available. It&#8217;s been proven by CST. JBJ &amp; LTK.</p>
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		<title>By: patriot</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/nation-building-or-party-building/comment-page-2/#comment-29088</link>
		<dc:creator>patriot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 15:25:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2447#comment-29088</guid>
		<description>Dear Readers;

let us supposed that the PAP Formed Government knows which party one voted for, what consequences can You imagine?

There were 30 over percent of votes that went to the Oppositions, that means hundreds of thousand had voted for Oppositions, of course majorities were the Hougang and Potong Pasir Constituencies. Any untoward happened to them?

One must not suffer from self-induced, imagined fear without reasoning. The Government is not out to punish indiscriminately. Voting means the voter is free to pick his choice of leaders, nothing more, nothing less. Or am I wrong? 

patriot</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Readers;</p>
<p>let us supposed that the PAP Formed Government knows which party one voted for, what consequences can You imagine?</p>
<p>There were 30 over percent of votes that went to the Oppositions, that means hundreds of thousand had voted for Oppositions, of course majorities were the Hougang and Potong Pasir Constituencies. Any untoward happened to them?</p>
<p>One must not suffer from self-induced, imagined fear without reasoning. The Government is not out to punish indiscriminately. Voting means the voter is free to pick his choice of leaders, nothing more, nothing less. Or am I wrong? </p>
<p>patriot</p>
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		<title>By: tiredsingaporean</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/nation-building-or-party-building/comment-page-2/#comment-29077</link>
		<dc:creator>tiredsingaporean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 14:18:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2447#comment-29077</guid>
		<description>95) Singlish on November 1st, 2008 9.02 pm 
But when comes to action, many still choose the PAP because of fear and many other reasons (including some lame excuses). With such mentality, it will be very difficult to have strong opposition to be voted into parliament.

I do not know if it is true when I hear on various sources that the ruling party will know if you vote for other alternaive parties during GE and they may come after you and make things difficult for you to do anything like businesses and other things that requires their approval. Unless this is true, then it is sad to know that the people chose to vote the party out of fear instead of voting for a party that really can take care of their well being in singapore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>95) Singlish on November 1st, 2008 9.02 pm<br />
But when comes to action, many still choose the PAP because of fear and many other reasons (including some lame excuses). With such mentality, it will be very difficult to have strong opposition to be voted into parliament.</p>
<p>I do not know if it is true when I hear on various sources that the ruling party will know if you vote for other alternaive parties during GE and they may come after you and make things difficult for you to do anything like businesses and other things that requires their approval. Unless this is true, then it is sad to know that the people chose to vote the party out of fear instead of voting for a party that really can take care of their well being in singapore.</p>
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		<title>By: Singlish</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/nation-building-or-party-building/comment-page-2/#comment-29057</link>
		<dc:creator>Singlish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 13:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2447#comment-29057</guid>
		<description>Several years ago, just after the General Election, a colleague of mine took a cab and struck a conversation with the cab driver. They touched on the topic of the general election. The cab driver was complaining about the government not taking care of the cab drivers, increasing diesel tax, etc. But when asked which political party he has nominated in the GE, he relied softly -  PAP lor. 

The above story is not new and I do believe that many of you have heard similar story too. This shows that many want to express their unhappiness with the way our current government/PAP is running the country and do want an opposition to be in parliament to be a watchdog. But when comes to action, many still choose the PAP because of fear and many other reasons (including some lame excuses). With such mentality, it will be very difficult to have strong opposition to be voted into parliament. 

Singaporean mentality has to change and get out of our shell, rid our selfishness and work as united Singaporean for a better tomorrow so that we need not to work till hit the graves and leaving a big pile of debt for our next generation to settle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Several years ago, just after the General Election, a colleague of mine took a cab and struck a conversation with the cab driver. They touched on the topic of the general election. The cab driver was complaining about the government not taking care of the cab drivers, increasing diesel tax, etc. But when asked which political party he has nominated in the GE, he relied softly &#8211;  PAP lor. </p>
<p>The above story is not new and I do believe that many of you have heard similar story too. This shows that many want to express their unhappiness with the way our current government/PAP is running the country and do want an opposition to be in parliament to be a watchdog. But when comes to action, many still choose the PAP because of fear and many other reasons (including some lame excuses). With such mentality, it will be very difficult to have strong opposition to be voted into parliament. </p>
<p>Singaporean mentality has to change and get out of our shell, rid our selfishness and work as united Singaporean for a better tomorrow so that we need not to work till hit the graves and leaving a big pile of debt for our next generation to settle.</p>
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		<title>By: Who is the real communist?</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/nation-building-or-party-building/comment-page-2/#comment-28962</link>
		<dc:creator>Who is the real communist?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 00:19:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2447#comment-28962</guid>
		<description>Yes, the PAP is right.  There was a &quot;communist&quot; threat to infiltrate into all organisations. Today who is the &quot;communist&quot; that has infiltrated and taken over the control of all organisations?  

At least the alleged communists in those days were champions of the people. So, in order to counter  those alleged communists, the PAP had no choice but to pretend to be for the people.  Today, when the power is in their hands in total, the people have become mere insignificant digits to take the bad medicine dished out under the guise of a better future.  What better future, when it is already so bad today. Can&#039;t even solve today&#039;s hardship, still want to talk about future?  Always taking the people for a ride!

I Not Stupid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, the PAP is right.  There was a &#8220;communist&#8221; threat to infiltrate into all organisations. Today who is the &#8220;communist&#8221; that has infiltrated and taken over the control of all organisations?  </p>
<p>At least the alleged communists in those days were champions of the people. So, in order to counter  those alleged communists, the PAP had no choice but to pretend to be for the people.  Today, when the power is in their hands in total, the people have become mere insignificant digits to take the bad medicine dished out under the guise of a better future.  What better future, when it is already so bad today. Can&#8217;t even solve today&#8217;s hardship, still want to talk about future?  Always taking the people for a ride!</p>
<p>I Not Stupid.</p>
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		<title>By: When they came</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/nation-building-or-party-building/comment-page-2/#comment-28891</link>
		<dc:creator>When they came</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:44:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2447#comment-28891</guid>
		<description>To #91) Chiu Yi Ren

&quot;When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.&quot;

- Martin Niemoller</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To #91) Chiu Yi Ren</p>
<p>&#8220;When the Nazis came for the communists,<br />
I remained silent;<br />
I was not a communist.</p>
<p>When they locked up the social democrats,<br />
I remained silent;<br />
I was not a social democrat.</p>
<p>When they came for the trade unionists,<br />
I did not speak out;<br />
I was not a trade unionist.</p>
<p>When they came for the Jews,<br />
I remained silent;<br />
I was not a Jew.</p>
<p>When they came for me,<br />
there was no one left to speak out.&#8221;</p>
<p>- Martin Niemoller</p>
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		<title>By: gemami</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/nation-building-or-party-building/comment-page-2/#comment-28786</link>
		<dc:creator>gemami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 04:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2447#comment-28786</guid>
		<description>91) Chiu Yi Ren 

Life is more than just me. 

I may have a roof over my head and a good job to go along with it but when I look over my shoulders and see my friends in dire need of help, would I just turn a blind eye, scoff at them and use them as examples to tell myself that I must be so smart that I am not like them and then give myself a big pat on my back, then walk away.

Good enough?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>91) Chiu Yi Ren </p>
<p>Life is more than just me. </p>
<p>I may have a roof over my head and a good job to go along with it but when I look over my shoulders and see my friends in dire need of help, would I just turn a blind eye, scoff at them and use them as examples to tell myself that I must be so smart that I am not like them and then give myself a big pat on my back, then walk away.</p>
<p>Good enough?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chiu Yi Ren</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/nation-building-or-party-building/comment-page-2/#comment-28779</link>
		<dc:creator>Chiu Yi Ren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 04:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2447#comment-28779</guid>
		<description>Hey guys, what say you about this saying:

You should not question and  voice up because 
you should be glad you have a roof over your head and a job (no guarantee) ?

Is life so simplistic?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey guys, what say you about this saying:</p>
<p>You should not question and  voice up because<br />
you should be glad you have a roof over your head and a job (no guarantee) ?</p>
<p>Is life so simplistic?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: patriot</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/nation-building-or-party-building/comment-page-2/#comment-28663</link>
		<dc:creator>patriot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 16:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2447#comment-28663</guid>
		<description>Donaldson;

Confucious was a RESPONSIBLE ONE.

Because he emphasied much on filial piety, honesty, propriety and other virtues.

patriot</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Donaldson;</p>
<p>Confucious was a RESPONSIBLE ONE.</p>
<p>Because he emphasied much on filial piety, honesty, propriety and other virtues.</p>
<p>patriot</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: patriot</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/nation-building-or-party-building/comment-page-2/#comment-28662</link>
		<dc:creator>patriot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 16:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2447#comment-28662</guid>
		<description>A responsible one, Sir!

patriot</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A responsible one, Sir!</p>
<p>patriot</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Donaldson Tan</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/nation-building-or-party-building/comment-page-2/#comment-28661</link>
		<dc:creator>Donaldson Tan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 16:45:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2447#comment-28661</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I believe Confucius was also a pragmatist, thanks for your response.&lt;/i&gt; - patriot (#87)

A caring pragmatist or a cold-hearted one?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I believe Confucius was also a pragmatist, thanks for your response.</i> &#8211; patriot (#87)</p>
<p>A caring pragmatist or a cold-hearted one?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: patriot</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/nation-building-or-party-building/comment-page-2/#comment-28657</link>
		<dc:creator>patriot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 16:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2447#comment-28657</guid>
		<description>Hi blade;

I am glad reading the many comments You contributed.

As for pickpocket incidents, a friend of mine went marketing last week at Blk 85 Bedok North in the morning and her purse was picked. When the incident was mentioned, the hawkers over there said that it happened frequently.

My, my, across the road  from Blk 85 Market is Bedok Central(Divisional) Police Station. It is not the locations of the Market/Hawker  Centre or Police Station  that matter, it was the description that &#039;pickpockets happened frequently&#039; that was disturbing.  

Dear Donaldson;

I believe Confucius was also a pragmatist, thanks for your response.

patriot</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi blade;</p>
<p>I am glad reading the many comments You contributed.</p>
<p>As for pickpocket incidents, a friend of mine went marketing last week at Blk 85 Bedok North in the morning and her purse was picked. When the incident was mentioned, the hawkers over there said that it happened frequently.</p>
<p>My, my, across the road  from Blk 85 Market is Bedok Central(Divisional) Police Station. It is not the locations of the Market/Hawker  Centre or Police Station  that matter, it was the description that &#8216;pickpockets happened frequently&#8217; that was disturbing.  </p>
<p>Dear Donaldson;</p>
<p>I believe Confucius was also a pragmatist, thanks for your response.</p>
<p>patriot</p>
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		<title>By: gemami</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/nation-building-or-party-building/comment-page-2/#comment-28588</link>
		<dc:creator>gemami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 12:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2447#comment-28588</guid>
		<description>85) Observer (SG-HK) 

you&#039;re absolutely right that civic-minded citizens have to step forward and take the lead. we have to help ourselves because by looking at things around us, there don&#039;t seem to be any help at hand we can rely on.

the opposition are so quiet - probably overly depressed and not knowing what their next course of action ought to be.

we have TOC, but there must be someone in TOC that can stand up and lead these voices. Tan Kin Lian would make an excellent candidate but we cannot impose on him can we?

one thing TOC can do is to bring in some politicians to answer directly to some of the contents found here. go get LTK for his views. CSJ also. PAP parlimentarians are also welcomed. Then we can really have some serious top level discussions. 

The pen is mightier than the sword.

impossible? we won&#039;t know until we try.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>85) Observer (SG-HK) </p>
<p>you&#8217;re absolutely right that civic-minded citizens have to step forward and take the lead. we have to help ourselves because by looking at things around us, there don&#8217;t seem to be any help at hand we can rely on.</p>
<p>the opposition are so quiet &#8211; probably overly depressed and not knowing what their next course of action ought to be.</p>
<p>we have TOC, but there must be someone in TOC that can stand up and lead these voices. Tan Kin Lian would make an excellent candidate but we cannot impose on him can we?</p>
<p>one thing TOC can do is to bring in some politicians to answer directly to some of the contents found here. go get LTK for his views. CSJ also. PAP parlimentarians are also welcomed. Then we can really have some serious top level discussions. </p>
<p>The pen is mightier than the sword.</p>
<p>impossible? we won&#8217;t know until we try.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Observer (SG-HK)</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/nation-building-or-party-building/comment-page-2/#comment-28550</link>
		<dc:creator>Observer (SG-HK)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 09:11:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2447#comment-28550</guid>
		<description>83) gemami 

It is exactly that you had described. So like I have mentioned in previous comment, we concerned citizenry had to pull our resources together to help each other and hopefully that may influence the government to come to their senses and conscience. A tall task but we are civic minded people and I think if we all have that will and determination, I believe every small steps we take will make a difference.

I cannot deny the fact that as far as opening up to allow more discourse, it indeed is happening comparing tot he early days. That is on a good note. But as far as higher transparency and accountability, there are rooms for improvement fromt he governing party.

what I find I cannot accept or come to terms with is the lacking of compassion of some of the current leaders. The old guards are tough but at least they are compassionate people and they do really care. So, while we continue our citizenry effort to voice our concerns, I think we can do something on a good cause at citizenry level. Otherwise, like I have commented, everything will stand still or head towards an even downward spiral. We hope to act as contagion with goodwill, good cause with proaction. i certainloy do hope the governing party do not see these kind of efforts as &quot;Radical Movement&quot;.

The question is can we and will we?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>83) gemami </p>
<p>It is exactly that you had described. So like I have mentioned in previous comment, we concerned citizenry had to pull our resources together to help each other and hopefully that may influence the government to come to their senses and conscience. A tall task but we are civic minded people and I think if we all have that will and determination, I believe every small steps we take will make a difference.</p>
<p>I cannot deny the fact that as far as opening up to allow more discourse, it indeed is happening comparing tot he early days. That is on a good note. But as far as higher transparency and accountability, there are rooms for improvement fromt he governing party.</p>
<p>what I find I cannot accept or come to terms with is the lacking of compassion of some of the current leaders. The old guards are tough but at least they are compassionate people and they do really care. So, while we continue our citizenry effort to voice our concerns, I think we can do something on a good cause at citizenry level. Otherwise, like I have commented, everything will stand still or head towards an even downward spiral. We hope to act as contagion with goodwill, good cause with proaction. i certainloy do hope the governing party do not see these kind of efforts as &#8220;Radical Movement&#8221;.</p>
<p>The question is can we and will we?</p>
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		<title>By: gemami</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/nation-building-or-party-building/comment-page-2/#comment-28542</link>
		<dc:creator>gemami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 08:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=2447#comment-28542</guid>
		<description>Observer #82

The problem with this govt is they believe they have all these qualities you mentioned. How to make them see that they don&#039;t?

You tell them to be compassionate and they&#039;ll say &quot;sure, we are. We&#039;ve buuilt this and that to care for the people . . .blah blah blah.....&quot;.

You tell them to get in toch with the people and they&#039;ll answer: &quot;Sure we do. We have meet the people sessions .....blah.blah.blah&quot;.

The PAP govt prides itself on being strong in the head; how to tell them that they need to listen as well?

Tell them to give our citizens the sense of warmth and they&#039;ll tell you they are house in better conditions that their parents during the kampong days......how to get through to them?.......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Observer #82</p>
<p>The problem with this govt is they believe they have all these qualities you mentioned. How to make them see that they don&#8217;t?</p>
<p>You tell them to be compassionate and they&#8217;ll say &#8220;sure, we are. We&#8217;ve buuilt this and that to care for the people . . .blah blah blah&#8230;..&#8221;.</p>
<p>You tell them to get in toch with the people and they&#8217;ll answer: &#8220;Sure we do. We have meet the people sessions &#8230;..blah.blah.blah&#8221;.</p>
<p>The PAP govt prides itself on being strong in the head; how to tell them that they need to listen as well?</p>
<p>Tell them to give our citizens the sense of warmth and they&#8217;ll tell you they are house in better conditions that their parents during the kampong days&#8230;&#8230;how to get through to them?&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
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