Bloody tape recorder we have here.

Dr V,

I trust you when you said “in Singapore there is no secret.”

But, people said that they do not want to know your personal asset. They just wanted to know how much you draw a month as a Minister. They said that you would not disclose.

I disagree with them. I am sure you will not hesitate to tell. I am sure you will not let me down..

Dr Vivian Balakrishnan said quote-unquote “the KARMA for Singapore, whether you like it or not.” [capitalized emphasis is mine]

should perhaps read . . . .

“the KARMA PHALA for Singapore, whether you like it or not.”

Karmaphala or karma-phala are the “fruits” of actions or consequence that a persons gets (either enjoys or bears) being the outcome of one’s actions or what you get in return. [source wiktionary.org]

Well done TOC,
your article of the great Terence Lee / Youth Editor,
says so much about what you are made of.

I mean, TOC is solid bombastic.

Did TOC buy the news? its now 100 cents a piece.

As ALWAYS, EVERYONE will, I say again, WILL ACCEPT the hikes in the sense that ALL WILL PAY AND PAY even if kpkb. That in its own way, is ACCEPTANCE.

That gives a strong signal for more to come. I mean more good good lor.

It’s about time there are no secrets! So let all singaporeans know exactly how much each and every minister gets! We don’t want to find out like it was reavealed in America how much all those CEO’s make and made even when they screwed up.

Let the truth be revealed once and for all.If you are honest whats there to fear. The government prides itself of there being no corruption in singapore as they pay the ministers accourding to market rate so what is the market rate we want to know. So that others may decide to join PAP. After all they are all protected from pay cut unlike the ordinary workers!

America is waiting to see if they have overcome racialism amd elect the first black american President.

We wait to see if there will ever be a first non chinese Prime Minister in Singapore. The future looks bright for our new generation of ministers. Care to predict who stands out for this post. Your guess is as good as mine.

Spore PM is not selected by the people, not like in US.It is Pap who selects the PM so whether black or yellow PM, Pap decides, don’t push to the people saying Spore is not ready for a minority candidate Pm.

Opennes and Singapore being a Land of Dreams sounds nice. You see, Dr V said it himself…getting a C but he still could enter politics. MORE WISELY though, Singapore has been engineered enough such that everyone will get an A, politics be damned.

““If I say something unethical or unfair against any of my opposition colleagues, they can sue as well,””
But whether they can win in a kangaroo court is another matter.

“, the government is making no apologies when it comes to suing politicians for defamatory remarks,”
After all Singapore partisan politics is built on the foundation of suing any opp voice until bankrupt under the kangaroo court ever since Lim Chin Siong and many opposition party members were detained under the Internal Security Act by the ruling PAP government via the infamous Operation Coldstore on 2 February 1963. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lim_Chin_Siong

“To the outsider, when they look at Singapore, they know that politics here is serious, it’s accurate, it’s real and accountable.”
Of course it is serious, real and accurate, you are talking about losing money, losing job, losing house, losing career, and losing yourelf over injustice. Just ask Dr Chee. Of it is accountable too, it is accountable to the old fart and his family as long as it make them happy.

“In Singapore there are no secrets,”
Sure, there is no secrets but does anyone dare to say there is secret publicly without getting sue ?

“I was never quite comfortable with the ‘stayer or quitter’ notion. It’s not very fair to some of the Singaporeans out there,”
What are you thinking ? Hope you are not thinking of ‘quitting’ yourself or your family member quitting Singapore for a better life.

“if I cock up you will know.”
So what If we know, what can we do with kangaroo regime who have absolute power and kangaroo court at disposal ? Singaporean just have to suffer silent whatever cockup make and move on, isn’t this the standard procedure all along ?

“It’s almost a samurai code.”
Don’t disgrace the samurai code. What honour of samurai code you talking about ? PAP or the country ? Going by samurai code, the PAP will have committed seppuku (ritual suicide).” . I think you are talking about PAP code rather than samurai code, don’t desecrate the honourable feudal Japanese culture.
So what is PAP code ? That is when fail to accomplish task , or make honest mistake, it is to blame on little people and to move on quickly.

Since when PAP ministers so envy and respect samurai code ?
“Bushido expanded and formalized the earlier code of the samurai, and stressed frugality, loyalty, mastery of martial arts, and honor to the death. Under the Bushido ideal, if a samurai failed to uphold his honor he could regain it by performing seppuku (ritual suicide).”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido

See how our ministers ‘pass’ the code of samuari with flying colours.

frugality = Fail ! They need millions to live “Frugal life”. Not even donating from their million dollars and even ask public to donate hard-earn money.

loyalty = To who ? PAP or country ? Worse, loyalty achieve only paying millions of dollar. Need millions to regain moral authority and to prevent corruption. With such millions, who need corruption ? If don’t pay millions, they will enter private sector so obviously they are loyal to money and to those who feed them $$$$.

mastery of martial arts = They have formiddable skills mah ? How come I don’t know ? Now I remember. It is their famous TACHI and MOVE-ON skill. Very world-class and unique skill indeed. Even more potent is the bootlicking skill beyond the universe.

honor to the death = That is a joke ! Crisis happens also disappear and hence can’t even honourably resolve crisis , let alone die by honour.

if a samurai failed to uphold his honor he could regain it by performing seppuku (ritual suicide).”
Suicide ? Kidding me again. How are they going to enjoy their accumulation of million dollars salary if everytime they have to die retaining their honour. So better to NO HONOUR = NO DEATH = ENJOY MILLION DOLLAR LIFE.

“I still hope he isn’t just words”
Isn’t the Samurai code just tell you something ?

Nice article…good read.

Well…I’ve always quite liked VB. He seems to be a decent fellow.

What’s reported here sounds fine and dandy, and I like what he said about not believing in the stayer quitter notion.

And I also hope that VB is right in that university is not just about pushing for all those As.

anybody know was the kangaroo article taken out? censored? – justkaypoh (#9)

http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/kangaroo-t-shirts-not-allowed

They make no apologies for forgetting about who they are suppose to serve either.

Donaldson Tan,
it is still there. Sometimes if the Kangaroo article is over-popular, the system can’t handle the demand.

Let’s be fair to the government here. They’re trying to create a credible opposition – the more they sue, the more people believe the other guy.

The other guy will be a credible activist and not credible politician if his party gets de-registered.

“the more they sue, the more people believe the other guy.”
Are they using taxmoney for sue ? I thought they sue on personal ground ?

Very soon there will be showdown between AngMoh and the Kangaroo ? Who will win ? The one giving a punch or the kangaroo with its vicious kick and hip-hip ?

No secret? Right. How many years did it take for us to know the deifinition of “subsidy” for HDB flats?

It doesn’t appear like anyone really “took him to task”.

“That was the night I know for sure that I was going to go into politics. There are things to protect, things to fight for, and it’s not just enough to just talk about it,”

How noble. So the sky-rocketing salary you get paid for public service had nothing to do with it.

There’s nothing wrong with paying people well. But there is an issue when you reduce public service right down to a dollar issue. People who genuinely want to serve don’t need such a huge financial bounty. In fact, having such a large salary has the danger of attracting the WRONG type of people – money-minded characters who don’t mind toeing the line as long as their wallet is full. If something goes wrong, it’s ok to keep quiet and not kick up a fuss because they’re paid well.

“if I cock up you will know. At least within the PAP, we select on the basis of merit, and we are also totally unsentimental about dropping people.”

Where is Mas Selamat? I would say that’s a pretty big cockup.

Dear lips,

That’s life!

Defamation suits, in a smple man’s context is as good as: I sue becos u said something bad about me and I can’t take your strong words, becos it makes me look bad.

So similair to the Dawn Yang vs Xia Xue episode. Such pettiness from people with power and influence.

And when it came down to taking other situations to task – Mas Selamat, Fare hike increases, 21% tarriffs hike, costly HDB flats etc. You never see men in white with the same gusto.

Apologies? Who needs them ? Where is the sincerity ? Look at the Govt’s Mas Selamat’s statements; look at LBW so call “sorry” ( we have lost the best TT coach in the world) Sorry ? No, it is all intended…..
Come on, the people are not born yesterday.
And who needs a young man minister to preach to us – perhaps his speech is scripted or as #6 Yodi had suggested – high ambitions and having to do the needful now.
What is important is for our leaders to be TRUE to themselves FIRST before making comments about apologies, and not being pompous and presumptous when they may not even have tasted the real salt of the hard life of their forefathers in carving out this unique nation state.
It is now guarding their iron ricebowls – no wonder even MM remarked about complacency. MM may be older but he is direct , decisive and really led as PM.

Enough said! Let us enjoy Sunday free of all the always cheap talk of ” we will look into”- becoming the trademark of the Govt. Better call up Tan Kin Lian, a real people’s person fit to be the President.
“helping you”….-better help yourself as the president and ministers are doing so with their salaries and increments.

Maybe I’m being a killjoy, but I think at the very least Dr V is a more balanced man than the older vanguards of PAP.

At the very least he agrees in principle to fairness and political openness, at what conditions we don’t know yet; we can work from there, yes? In principle is better than nothing (: He does seem a reasonable(r) fellow.

Admittedly nothing new or insightful was really thrown up during the forum, though.

VB said:
“We don’t mind political openness, but we don’t want too much of the excitement. To the outsider, when they look at Singapore, they know that politics here is serious, it’s accurate, it’s real and accountable. It’s not a situation you get in other countries. We’re an outlier, but we are outlying because we want to keep our politics honest.”

What is “too much of the excitement” in political openness? Who decides what’s too much?”honest politics” new term indeed. Have not known politics and honesty co-existed.

He also said: “If I say something unethical or unfair against any of my opposition colleagues, they can sue as well,”

This works when the judiciary system is “truly open” and “in absolute independent”. Meaning there must be no reasonable of doubts to the citizenry that the judiciary system may be influence by any political party or associations.

Glad to know students are speaking up. I just wish and hope the employers or employment scene in Singapore values an employee’s potential rather than focus on academic grades. Companies tend to do better with employers who sees an employees’ potential value and bring the best out of them by developing good internal training program. It also foster better retention and loyalty from employees who cherish the chances given to them, at least they do not feel out-cast. So it is time for Singapore employers to throw out the old thoughts that only graduates or people with academic excellence can do the job.

Vivian, stop your bullshit, lah. It is an open secret that MIW wants absolute control of S’pore and will resort to any means to achieve that aim. All our mini-stars are afraid of losing their iron rice bowl job that pays millions every year and a pension of $176,000/year from age 55!!!

When I announced that I would be speaking on the minibond issue at Speaker’s Corner (Hong Lim Green), a friend (who previously contested in the election under the Workers’ Party) sent an e-mail to me from Hong Kong. He advised me to be careful and not be say anything that is defamatory that could get me sued to bankrupcy.

He quoted incidences of candidates that were sued for statements that appear to be questioning something that is wrong. A few other people, including a lawyer, also warned me to “be careful”.

If I listened to their advice, I would not be saying anything. It is so dangerous to speak in Singapore. People are so fearful of saying something that can lead to being sued, even if they do not have any bad intent.

I had to look for someone to translate my speech into Chinese. I asked many people to come forward. Some agreed first, and later declined. They cited “pressure from family members”. It was so diffiicult to get someone, even to translate for me.

Is this the kind of society that our minister is so proud about? A society where people are fearful to speak up, in case they make a slip and get be sued till bankrupt? We should be ashamed of this sad state of affairs in Singapore.

#24….. observer.,
I really like reading your works, Your reading on situation is quite different from most peoples.I would say insightful enough to make me sit up and give a good tot about it .Ofcourse ,sometime i may not fully agree, but it really tickle my brian….
##### A PERSONAL NOTE FOR YOU, YOU ARE A WISE PERSON..( he / she )??????

Tan K L, just got back from a unofficial speaker’s C..at boon lay place behind the market.also know as old people ground….hahahah…well, alot of kind words been say about you.(but all in hokkien) your tear my roll, if you are there… so don be afraid ,move on. I ‘m just behind you..ok??????
Avery very ordinary folk,not educated ,not very wise… but human enough to understand your intention….god bless you…

“In Singapore there are no secrets”

What a lie, just can’t stand these political liars !

For one, can you please ask our PM or his wife to disclose
the actual losses that Temasek has sufferred the last few years.

What is so secretive about our losses that the Lee family are
so afraid to let us know the truth ? If they are prepared to disclose
such losses (even if they are only paper losses), then I will only
believe that your statement.

Otherwise please SHUT UP, you are just a bloody liar.

Observer(SG-HK) , so i guess you agreed with my arguments in the HDB means testing article.

I did not see a reply from you, so I take it as you agreed, good.

Alan Wong ,
under VB’s context when he says
““Everything we do is under public scrutiny,” he said. “In Singapore there are no secrets, if I cock up you will know.”

He means that it is hard to keep thing secret such as loss of investment, honest mistake ,errors, blunders, because the public will critically examine and expose them but then to the layman that is the NOT MOST important point and outcome. The point is WE WANT THE GOVERNMENT TO ADMIT THEMSELVES BLATANTLY THAT THEY MAKE THE MISTAKE, HONEST OR NOT, AND GIVE A REAL HONEST ACCOUNT OF WHAT HAPPEN AND NOT JUST SIMPLY MOVE ON QUICKLY WITH COVERUP , WHICH FURTHER FUEL SPECULATION OF GOVERNMENT’S SINCERITY AND COMPETENCE.

It is one thing that public scrutinze the Singapore government’s blunder but it is another for government to admit its mistake and account to the public.

So please VB,
your view is secondary, primarily we are more interested of what government do to learn from mistake and how you can perpetuate the change. You are not paid millions to entitle and express your view and opinion, you are paid millions to make changes for the betterment of the nation and citizen. There are no such thing as drawing the line just because you are only in charge of youth and sport development, you have in every way to make change in government system up and down, left or right because you are a minister. That is what people expect you to do.

30) justkaypoh on October 19th, 2008 4.02 pm

I am a staunched advocate of free speech and expression (and this is about the only thing I wanted more so than anyother policies in Singapore). Let’s just say I respect any individual’s view and never attempted to prove anybody wrong. Just a diferent perspective.

When I find time, I will revisit the article and reply you. Let’s give a little respect to the author of this article and stick to subject matter.

27) ordinaryman on October 19th, 2008 3.21 pm

Thank you. Just speaking from the heart and my views may not necessary reflect what many others would like to hear. But again, as a staunched believer and advocate of free speech and expression, I think people will have have differing views regardless of any issues at heart, the importance is to give the respect to every indiviudal and try to be impartial as much as one can.

what’s new?

oh yes; opposition better be more careful. the world now in crisis. PAP waiting by the wings to make extra pocket money.

plain citizens too. better not be seen in anything that resembles a kangaroo.

The legal suit is already over and verdict is already given, Are arrogant comments like these from our million dollar minister called for? I think the GRC system has protected young upstarts like him such that parlimentarians have even lost their commonsense and emotional intelligence. Shame on you Vivian.

He said: “We don’t mind political openness, but we don’t want too much of the excitement. To the outsider, when they look at Singapore, they know that politics here is serious, it’s accurate, it’s real and accountable. It’s not a situation you get in other countries. We’re an outlier, but we are outlying because we want to keep our politics honest.”

What the government is actually saying is that it has the prerogative to manage politics here. Any government that claims this moral right will surely tweak the political system overhwelmingly in its favour. It is really, a circular argument.

Dr V,

Pl see my post yesterday. I have full confidence in your transparency. Please answer my question. Please do not let me down….

Your grateful citizen…

<>

Maybe one day the government will have to sue everyone in sin and the only ones not sued will be their own millionaire ministers!

It will be another first for singapore in the world. We always want to be first in everything what. Hey how come no minister reply in this channel. they not allowed to read is it. Or even defend themselves. Maybe waiting for someone to say something then sue again!

#1 Tiredsingaporean – This is called a news report. It is meant to be objective, not partisan, as I presume you are hoping for. That is reserved for TOC’s opinion pieces.

39) Gerald Giam on October 19th, 2008 9.19 pm
Sorry, btw am not into any politic or hoping for what so not partisan thingy. Just that I am fed up with the way things are done frpm the present garments all these years.

More like a chest stomping excercise to impress on the students and to tell them about their ‘knuckle busting’?

Is this the kind of society that our minister is so proud about? A society where people are fearful to speak up, in case they make a slip and get be sued till bankrupt? We should be ashamed of this sad state of affairs in Singapore. – Tan Kin Lian (#26)

Perhaps so. This goes back to George Yeo´s June 1991 Speech on Civic Society when he was the Acting Minister of Information and the Arts. He used the term “civic society” to confront issues pertaining to forging a unitary national identity and culture, while making a departure from the widely regarded notion of civil society which involves parliamentary and lobbyist politics.

[...] vs Chee – Singapore Indian Voice: TBT 18 trial begins on Thursday – TOC: PAP makes no apologies for defamation suits, says Vivian Balakrishnan – Singabloodypore: Defamation suits necessary, Singapore tells rights [...]

“We don’t mind political openness, but we don’t want too much of the excitement”.

so how does the govt contain “too much of the excitement?” – SUE.

it started with LKY, and yes, he had some integrity which MUST be protected against ‘reckless’ commentaries. we can accord him this but his govt and his son’s govt are miles apart! what have GCT & LHL done for Singapore that entitles them to the same (or even bigger) proportions of court payments made against those being sued by them?

come on! … the situation is now so ridiculous. even MPs of the unknown & unheard kind have jumped at the opportunity to make some pocket money on the side. what integrity do they have? what reputation do they possess? just because they happened to be standing by the big shot’s side, they too get to gain from that.

let’s do a simple exercise. go ask the men in the street to name all the 82 pap mps and which wards they represent then see what the result is. I bet each of them won’t even get pass 20 names. I bet too that, collectively, they won’t be able to name all.

don’t be surprise that very soon, mr char kway teow will be suing mr hokkien mee.
but then again, maybe not, because people like these have a thing call ‘kum cheng’.

“That was the night I know for sure that I was going to go into politics. There are things to protect, things to fight for, and it’s not just enough to just talk about it,”

I think Dr Vivian (a girl’s name?) makes an excellent Prime Minister. The PAP should seriously consider him for the post of PM when LHL steps down. We need a non-Chinese PM in order to be inline with a non-Chinese President.

And in order to honestly honour the words “Singapore has no SECRETS”, when Dr Vivian becomes the PM, he could then reveal to the whole world, especially the Malaysians and Indonesians, all our military top secret files and all the names of our intelligence-gathering agents. How’s that for a start, Dr Vivian?

By the way, is it okay for you to reveal to us how much you have donated to charity the last ten years, giving us a detailed breakdown? Is this asking too much?

45) Get Real

i think a good starting point would be for Vivian to get LSS to tell what is it in his cpf statement that makes him feel rich. I know there are a lot of numerical digits in there. why not share with us so that we can feel rich with him.

and since there have been no reprimands from his bosses, why not the bosses tell us if they fell rich too when looking into their cpf statements?

Vivian for PM – let’s open all secrets!

Dear gemami,

It is not that diffcult to make an estimate on anybody’s cpf. I remember there was a cap on both employee/employer monthly contribution of S$1,200 (I do not know whether this cap had been change). So given this number, roughly multiply it by 12 months and the number of years and assuming there were no withdrawal (LSS do not need to withdraw like most of us do to purchase housing), and add the compounded 2~3.5% yearly interest. We assume a person that had continuous work for 15 years, the rough estimate is easily between 450~500K.

When get yourself all upset by a sily comment? Should feel rich for him. Now, ask him what is he going to do to help those that are not as fortunate as him? Those who had worked their butts off and still finding it hard to make ends meet?

In Singapore there are no secrets – Oh really
Lets just start with all the politicians having to declare their assets, we all know that they have declared repeatedly that they have not enriched themselves, although one has mentioned that he feels rich everymonth.

Let the people decide whether you have enriched yourself or not. Long gone are they days when your words were taken as the gospel truth. You guys have made so many re-thinks (not u-turn) and gone back on so many promises that its amazing that people still have faith. I remember ,although many have forgotten, a promise that there will be no increase in government fees for this year. So what is the secret for going back on that promise.