FYI. Mr Lim has passed away last Tuesday. I’ll always remember him as a knowledgeable, peaceful man that never failed to smile. In a society where stress is to be expected, Mr Lim together with his wife of 60 years gave hints of a life full of quality. May his garden bloom again with him in his rest.

Regards,
Rafiz

Even a small fry also copy cat.

agreeing with you again, Rafiz has done a great job. i don’t know if i would have done the same.

Haha actually I wasn’t blaming those two residents who were “owners” of the garden. In the lack of information (on how the questions were asked, and how they responded and such, and also if they knew other “owners” etc.), no blame can be levelled on them. It’s just a curious question on my side: I always find that there is insufficient information for me to make a firm stand (and I’m too lazy to seek them out)…

In any case, I hope that the residents affected can find other activities to engage in, since the garden will not be replaced. And it’s a good lesson for the TC as well on handling such matters in the future.

And finally, I think we ought to thank and learn from Rafiz on being proactive in raising community issues. It’s one thing for us to make comments here about what’s done right and what’s done wrong, it’s another to put words into actions.

for posting the Chinese News Report. I watched it on Channel 8 and it appeared to me that the Chinese Lady interviewed lamented the removal or rather the demolition of the Herb Garden. The others interviewed, as telecasted, expressed disappoints as well, none seem to complain.

From the Footage, the said Garden seemed to be either infront or behind the said interviewed ladys’ ground floor unit.

There are mentions of notice(s) been posted to the residents, can the Relevant People please tell how that notification(s) was done. I thank You in advance.

Sounds very fair to me. Let the TC people get on with their jobs. After all, what is 21 years compared to a whole lifetime – heck! why not say – eternity?….

… one last question before i ‘move on’.

where were the rodents hiding these past 21 years? …..hmmmm…. the recession must have got to them that they have to leave their homes to come out to look for food ……hmmmmmmmmm……….. poor rodents, where will they go for food now that the garden is gone? …… Community-In-Bloom? ……Oh no!….let’s take precautionary action before they remove the plants there too…….

Generally, I think we are in agreement on most of the points we touched on.

And yes, I won’t be too please either if I have to be consulted on small changes in my estate. Unfortunately, in this instance, the removal of 21 years of tender-loving-care of a herbs garden is not quite a small matter – unless one is totally devoid of feelings.

I can be fine with TC surveying 10 people, but they must be the correct people.

This is why I questioned if the ones who made the complaints in the first place were also included in this group of 10; or; if the 10 people surveyed did not even care if the garden catches fire, for that matter.

From Rafiz’s other thread, we now know that the herbs garden were the hard work of residents from 4 blocks of flats. Now, surely, taking the words of 2 is grossly inadequate representation of accurate views.

Also, we should not even attempt to blame the 2 poor residents, suddenly thrown into the limelight, because they said they no longer wish to continue tending to the garden. They were probably asked a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ question.

Q. Do you want to continue to care for the garden?
A. No.

thank You for posting the Chinese News Report about the Incident.

I watched the Programme, the Chinese Lady interviewed appeared to be residing on the ground floor with the Garden either facing or behind her unit.

She lamented the removal or rather the destruction of the said herb garden. There are mentions of notice(s) to the residents. Can the relevant people please share with us here how it(they) were done. I thank You here in advance.

patriot

Actually, that is precisely my concern with regards to the TC’s reply. Were the residents sufficiently informed? For example, were notices placed near the garden in all four languages explaining the situation (I doubt so)? Or some notice board of the TC? After all, Juak Kin did say that

The garden was eventually cleared on the same day, after having given the residents more than 2 weeks’ notice in advance.

He, however, did not elaborate on what notice were given, which leads me to suspect (without certainty, of course) that it’s some sort of obscure notice that no one pays attention to. This, if so, will be a fault on the TC’s side, but it is certainly not as bad as the initial picture I had.

And suppose sufficient notice were given to the residents, then any residents who want to keep the garden would’ve approached the TC, and the TC would then have explained the situation (i.e. someone to take charge, and cleaning up the mess etc.). The herb garden may not be destroyed in that case. Then there’s not so much issue of whether the TC has surveyed enough residents or not.

Back to the questions on the number of people the TC approached, all I know is there’s at least 10, with 2 associated with the garden. Yes, this is not representative of the residents, but how much is representative? Everyone? I’m not so sure about you, but I wouldn’t be too pleased if my consent is sought for every time there’s a minor change in some parts of the estate I live in. Neither will I be pleased with the efficiency, because such a comprehensive survey will mean that even minor changes will take days or even weeks to effect (and then the next TOC article will be “Why so slow?”)

All in all, I’m fine with the TC asking only 10 people; it is meant as some sort of informal survey anyway. What I’m more concerned with is the degree to which the decision to inform the residents were made known to them, because it is the time when they could take action to stop it.

Curious thought: there were two who claimed ownership of the garden. When they said that they no longer wished to keep the garden, did they let the TC know of other residents who also “own” the garden? And did they let the other “owners” know the decision?

http://www.mrbrown.com/blog/2007/09/stone-seats.html

http://www.xin.sg/article.php?article=24982&st=dtl

义顺草药园遭铲平 居民愤愤不平
26 October 2008 2147hrs
吴俍祥

 义顺组屋有一个20多年历史的草药园，因防控鼠患和蚊虫滋生而被强行铲平，有的年长者看着心血被毁，夜不能眠。

六家人多年来的心血，一个小时内被夷为平地。义顺81街第819座组屋的年长人士心情更是受到重创。

“我妈妈心情不好受，差不多几天睡不着，她说，她的心血全都没了。”

“草药园被铲平，伤了年长人士，我亲眼看见一名邻居落泪，他说草药园是它的命根，他告诉我，这是它21年的心血。”

及时保存下来的草药只好种在盆子里。草药原本有十多种，有的可治内伤、有的加强视力，有的治咳嗽风热。

“20多年来我们没有看过有蚊子有老鼠，它（市镇会）说有老鼠洞，全部要拔掉，全部不可以种这样子，没办法，如果不拔掉，它要出罚单。”

“这个地方给老人家打发时间不要紧嘛，它（市镇会）说不可以，我跟它讲那个香茅种在那边，那个是驱蚊的，留在那边不要紧，它说不可以。”

居民们恳请市镇会让他们恢复种植，毕竟草药园不仅是年长居民活动筋骨的好地方，也是居民的情感联系站。

shock, upset, unhappy . . . i admit, I might have used the wrong word here but the message is still the same – most of the residents of blk 819 were not even aware that it was to be removed.

The TC officer spoke with only 10 residents in an entire block, and out of these 10 people, the TC probably continued to communicate with the two who claimed ownership, and, most likely, these were the only two who knew in advance that the garden was to be removed.

TC: “…….out of the 10 households spoken with, only 2 residents, claimed ownership…”.

Sure, the TC claimed to have spoken with other residents as well, who did not wish to maintain the garden anymore, but were these residents involved in the maintenance of the garden in the first place or were they the ones who made the ‘rodents’ complaint? Who were these ‘other’ residents? The other 8 interviewed?

TC: “…Other residents whom our Property Officer spoke with also indicated that they did not wish to maintain the garden anymore……”

It is a huge discredit to Rafiz who brought up this issue because there were some more ‘other residents’ who woke up to find the garden gone overnight.

To cut a long story short, I feel the TC has cleverly played with words to support its action. Words like ‘residents’ are used to give the impression that there was ample consultation. How can 10 (probably only 2) be deemed to the the voice of the ‘residents’ at large?

The interveiwees were all shocked by the sudden removal the herb garden and most were not even aware prior to the removal that such action were to be carried out.

Is it? I’ve viewed the Chinese news report embedded the TOC article, and while many showed that they were upset, I can’t say for sure that they’re shocked. And if you pay careful attention (which I must admit I didn’t when I watched it the first time before Juak Kin’s response), some of the interviewees seem aware of the removal.

If we look upon mediacorp as a credible news station then how come it did not bother to interveiw MR Goh to get his side of the story.

Ah… but do you see Mediacorp as a credible source of news? Do we? Personally, I’m sceptical about the news giving a proper view of the real turn of events. Think about it: which story will sell better? Moreover, Juak Kin may need time to check to ensure that his response is true; after all, Town Councils are centres of bureaucracy.

Moreover, if you wish to make a valid comparison, note that the news report interviewed and obtained the opinions of five people only.

I think the answers to your questions are very obvious if you go by the footages presented on tv.

The interveiwees were all shocked by the sudden removal the herb garden and most were not even aware prior to the removal that such action were to be carried out.

If we look upon mediacorp as a credible news station then how come it did not bother to interveiw MR Goh to get his side of the story.

In this aspect, I believe the reply from Mr Goh was crafted as an afterthought and it serves not only as a damage control piece but also serves to shift the blame back to the people who tended to the garden.

I welcome the explanation, though I felt it could have been handled in a more people-oriented way. Helping people understand why the old garden had to go would have been a good first step. After clearing the garden of the rodent problem, the council could then have followed up with a program to help restore that plot of land for use by those residents again, with information on how to avoid a repeat infestation. They could also have chosen to be nice and provided resources to help the residents restore the garden they put so much effort into.

I do not think their actions were wrong, but they missed an opportunity to do that little something extra.

So in a way, some residents do know about the imminent removal of the garden before it was conducted. There’s also a mention of a 2 weeks notice, though I’m not sure what’s the nature of that (i.e. were notices placed near the garden?). In such a case, while we can question if the spread of information was sufficient, at least we know there were attempts to inform the residents (which was something I was looking for, originally).

As for the rat issue, I think it’s more of a trigger than a cause. If the garden is in a state of neglect as claimed by the council, then I think it should be removed if no one is willing to bring it up to a tidy state. It doesn’t need to take the rats to require a removal of the garden, in my opinion.

So ultimately, the concern is, is the garden truly in a state of neglect? And were most residents informed (or at least the attempt made) about this removal?

AMK Town Council, yr credibility is at stake.

Pss BTW AMKTC, yr GM invested yr funds in DBS HN5 or minibonds or other toxic assets?

As to survey, is ten fair sample? I doubt it. Maybe AMKTC should get Minibond Mr Tan to teach GM stats. He actuary.