A very fair statement indeed and I think very shrewd on the part of TKL.

He has kept the door open on alot of possibilities and throwing the option to the ground. This is very smart political move I must say.

This is so different from what many in Singapore knows about alternative politics.

My gut feeling is that it will create ripples on our political scene as all along it is one big party against a small few die-hards that are barely surviving.

The 100,000 signatures is also significant as there is a target set and things will move along as people try to get the signatures. Work gets done and people are also getting involved in political work which is great for politically apathetic Singapore.

Another good piece of strategizing by TKl again and I see a new dawn rising from our land. True son of Singapore!

Mr Tan:

You said,

“” It is more important that the elected leaders should have the passion to serve the people.”"

Do you have passion? Your passion is subjected to a petition of 100,000. Please rebut me if I am wrong, IMHO, passion is passion. It should not be subjected to any qualification. If you have the passion, with or without 100,000 petitioners, come what may, you still go ahead.

if it is only 99,999 signatures..will u still stand up for the people of Singapore?

I urge that the non elected and walkover MPs come forward and stand for election on their own this time round to prove themselves.

They should welcome this chance for them to finally able to claim that they are elected by the people.

regards
HO L P

Hi Tan Kin Lian

Thanks for taking the time to write. Its great to know more about why you’re doing all this.

Just to add on ONE point

“4. Why do you ask for the e-mail address and telephone number of the signatory?

I wish to contact them by e-mail to keep them briefed about my future plans. I also hope to ask some of them to step forward and help me in my effort, or to get more people to sign the petition.”

————————————————————-

I just wish to ask one question. If I may that has been bothering me Tan Kin Lian.

It is well known amongst bloggers you are not a great fan of people who make anonymous postings. In the past you have made not only sweeping statements concerning anonymous posters.

I have linked some of you post here:

http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/11/letter-to-toc-2/

where you once stated your opposition to anonymity so clearly as you did here:

———————————————————————–

“37) Tan Kin Lian on November 4th, 2008 10.31 am Hi gemami (#35)

I am in favour of an online forum where ALL commentators have to be REGISTERED. They can use a pen name, but their IDENTITYshould be known to the editor (who will preserve their confidentiality).

If they make malicious or defamatory statements, the editor can bar them or even disclose their identity to the aggrieved party. There is NO BETTER control than self control and accoutability.

This will reduce the number of comments, but it will improve the quality of the comments and make the online forum more respectable. It will probably draw a wider audience of honest people who wants to express their views.

I hope that TOC will consider my proposal one day, although I know that they are not ready yet.

Current score: 0″

————————————————————————————–

I believe you were subsequently challenged by a few to state and clarify your position, but you conveniently failed to do.

Subsequently, I believe you were even challenged directly by one character called Singaporedad. I have posted his comments here for your perusal and for the benefit of the readers to get a general feel of how heated the whole debate threatened to turn out.

—————————————————————————————-

“52) singaporedaddy on November 4th, 2008 6.16 pm With due respect, I did not attack you Tan LK. I responded to what you wrote. There is a big difference. I was merely exercising my elemental right as a netizen. Nothing more or less.

Since you brought the matter up, I will indulge you. This is what you wrote Tan LK: “I also congratulate Ho Cheow Seng, Donalson Tan and other commentors for using their real names and giving some background about their occupation.”

Tell me Tan LK what would a reasonable man infer from that statement? Have you ever considered? Let me put it another way, what are insinuating? Are you suggesting that to come across as responsible and credible, then one needs to use, “their real names” along with “giving some background about their occupation? Because from what little I am able to surmise from your above statement you are not certainly congratulating Ho CS or Donalson Tan et al for anything else other than the fact, they were prepared to use their real names and provide their occupation. Neither did you congratulate them for what they forwarded in the way of wisdom or even their clarity of thought as to what they may have forwarded by way of an opinion. So there are only a few possibilities here; one you congratulated both Donaldson Tan and Ho CS only because their names belong to some long esoteric power word like Ommh, Abracadabra or open sesame? But since I last checked up Donaldson is an Anglo-Saxon name and Ho CS is merely a common name that originates from China. So again please, if you may, what are you trying to say Tan L K?
You subsequently went on to write this latter on “I NEED to know who is the person who disagrees with me…”Once again, Tan LK, what is a reasonable man supposed to draw from all this and your other statements? Are you under a misapprehension of fact concerning how discourses are usually conducted online? Don’t you realize that anonymity is an elemental right in the virtual domain?

Now let us put that all that aside and let us continue your education of the merits of anonymity.

Gentlemen in less than 36 hours, we will know who is the next president of the united states of America. But stop! Where did this great democratic tradition come from? Where is the source from which the aqua vitae once flowed from?
Tell me was it hammered out by folk who wore name tags? And congratulated each other by handing out name cards? Or hung their vocations around their necks? In the way a carpenter would hang a saw around his neck? Who were these people who brought about transformational social change my friends?
Contrary to what Tan LK forwarded when he insisted, he “NEED(S) to know the identity….” Nothing can be further from the truth; if the imperative is transformational change then that “need” or cannot tahan NEVER ever once feature in the whole equation of change.

My fellow netizens, think about what I have said. I come to you in the name of knowledge, peace and the pursuit of the truth!

For if the truth be known, it has always been about one thing and no other; the message alone!

And here’s the kicker; it isn’t ANY ordinary message, but one that belongs to the anonymous variety that even precedes the history of the internet itself. This is not a new problem of our age my friends anymore than it dressed up to be one by those who have traditionally feared change.

Anonymity has always had a proud history and tradition; it’s not something that you should look on with disgust or even shame whenever you decide to go online anonymous. No! It belongs to the same pedigree that once motivated the likes of great men such as Thomas Paine and Jefferson who once penned their widely read pamphlet Common Sense (1776), advocating strenuous calls for colonial America’s independence from the Kingdom of Great Britain – Paine and his colleagues did not give out their real names or even volunteer their vocation; instead they wrote anonymously, they were the bloggers of their age; and since then many more have followed in their footsteps; it was great men like him who were instrumental in laying the capstone of what we term today the great American constitution along with the Bill of Rights – without it wouldn’t have mattered whether it is 36 hours from now or even 360 years from today –it would just be another day – life will just go on – and we would be none the wiser for it – and if you say this is nothing. Or you insinuated that is a thing to be despised, then you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You have absolutely none.

Only a fool turns his back on history. (I have to go for a conference call now and it will stretch till midnight, we will continue tmr)
SD (Internet Liaison officer of the brotherhood)”

————————————————————————————————-

The question which I would like to pose to you on behalf of all my friends and colleagues is what is your position towards online anonymity. The reason why I am asking this question is, I strongly believe this is a very important point that many citizens consider worth protecting i.e their right to privacy.

Since you have made your position so clear and used such strong language AGAINST anonymity, I hope you will clarify this matter for us all.

I would just like to draw you to one very important point. Nearly 94.7% of post are anonymous online. So this may be a very big community.

Many thanks. I hope you dont mind me asking these pointed questions. You see I just feel that I have every right as citizen to make sure that I am betting on the right horse. Infact, its a bit like investing in shares or financial products, I guess. We all have an obligation to make sure we go into something with our eyes fully open.

Caveat emptor it seems extends even to politics.

I feel that the people will sign more eagerly, with sense of urgency , if there is an election date announced either for EP or MP.

QUOTE
4. Why do you ask for the e-mail address and telephone number of the signatory?

I wish to contact them by e-mail to keep them briefed about my future plans. I also hope to ask some of them to step forward and help me in my effort, or to get more people to sign the petition.
UNQUOTE

I hope Mr Tan can allow telephone number to be an optional information the people need to provide. Using free Emails their identity may not be tracked so easily and people feel more secure.

QUOTE
5. What changes do you wish to see in the political climate in Singapore?

….Many people find life to be too stressful in Singapore. The cost of living is too high and their wages are inadequate. They have to work hard just to survive. We need to implement policies that can give a better life for all the people, and not just for an elite few. I prefer our society to be more egalitarian.

UNQUOTE

I agree to the above analysis of the plight of commoners.
After ‘their’ salaries were hiked, the people’s asian level salaries should also be hiked to at least a basic 1st world salary level and consider all the price hikes. Its idiot proof to understand that when generally salary level remain the same of stagnant over the years, the nett income is not rising in tandem as the cost of living.

QUOTE
6. Many people think that these changes require a strong political party. Will you be forming a new party? How about joining an existing political party?

If there is strong support, as reflected by a large number of signatures to the petition, and if more people are willing to step forward, then it is possible to set up a new political party.

I will also keep the option open to join an existing political party. I hope that the smaller parties can get together to cooperate with each other and perhaps, one day, to merge into a larger party.
UNQUOTE

Mr Tan, you have my support on this aspect! My exact thinking what the Alternative parties should do. There is no room for more than 1 alternative party, based on the huge challenge it face from the Incumbent. 1 step at a time is wiser. Future, maybe can consider more than 2 alternative parties. But the people will then have to decide.

Last but not least, I feel that the people who could not step forward of dare to step forward, should not criticise people like Mr Tan for ulterior motives. Even if people stand for election, what is wrong? Is it illegal to do so given that people want more real people representation and its basically a 1 strong party situation all these decades and the performance of WP and Chiam’s aging. Without evidence of bad ulterior motives, people should not criticise braver people who are trying to answer the call of the community. I am sure no one will disagree that its not exactly a easy task. And yet Mr Tan step forward. Lets look at the mirror and ask your image, what have you contributed to society in this aspect?

I understand #5 Lecturer’s desire for anonymity. That is a valid concern.. but i think this concern PALES in comparison to the bigger mission at hand – ie to bring about REAL change to Singapore society.

And let me ask him and all others who feel strongly about this desire for anonymity… Will you be able to work with Tan KL in a REAL party to push for REAL agendas in the REAL world.. by hiding behind a monicker? Or.. are you going to leave all the hard n dirty work to Tan KL and those who come out from hiding behind the woodworks?

“Last but not least, I feel that the people who could not step forward of dare to step forward, should not criticise people like Mr Tan for ulterior motives.”

Stepping forward is frankly overated. Many people can contribute to the nation anonymously. that’s why if you notice we frequently get people donating and they dont want their identities to be revealed.Thats never the issue. All I know is on record, Tan Kin Lian did harbor an ulterior motive and he manifested it by pulling a rabbit out of the hat. In my book that’s a non issue, but I know some people such as one of my relatives who lost money in minibonds considered it ungentlemenly. In hokkien he said, ur tau bo buo (got head no tail)

But lets not lose sight of the main question. I hope, I will be able to receive an answer to my ONE and very simple question without hype or spin about stepping forward, hero and man of the moment and all that.

“And let me ask him and all others who feel strongly about this desire for anonymity… Will you be able to work with Tan KL in a REAL party to push for REAL agendas in the REAL world.. by hiding behind a monicker? Or.. are you going to leave all the hard n dirty work to Tan KL and those who come out from hiding behind the woodworks?”

I am sorry, but that is a hypothetical question and it really demonstrates a few things. Firstly Wilfred, you dont seem to read very much, not broadly at least and you know less abt the learning process.

I have been in the teaching profession for nearly two decades and all I can say is a state of anonymity is not terminal and final. We are not talking about death sentence cancer. Usually it is a phase most people go through, irrespective of age. People dont just elect to be anonymous for no reason. There is usually a catalyst. A reason. Once that catalyst, root cause or fear is dismantled then it becomes possible for them to come out of their shell.

That is what I try to do. To get people out of their shell. Not to give them ram rod ultimatums or to impose my values on them. If you do that, they will clam up more or worse still take a defensive position.

I have noticed in Singapore, the worst lecturers are those who demand from their students instead of first taking to understand them. No wonder all they can do is pump out kids with great degrees to go on and run government firms to lose tons of money and the best thing is when they lose it all, they can still say, I cannot tell you why, that information is privileged.

Trust me I can think of a far better way to serve society in the case, sit down and shut up will be a good place to start.

Hi Mr. Tan Kin Lian,
I support you all the way…
We need 50 more people’s like him to represent us againts PAP.

Latest from CNA:

The three trio involved in the Kangaroo shirt courtcase sentenced to jail.

Wilfred

“bring about REAL change to Singapore society……And let me ask him and all others who feel strongly about this desire for anonymity… Will you be able to work with Tan KL in a REAL party to push for REAL agendas in the REAL world.. by hiding behind a monicker?”

What REAL change might that be? I am sorry, but I dont see anything concrete in TLK’s write up. Can you show the way?

Another thing. No one really “feels that strongly about this desire for anonymity.” Its simply a matter of respect for personal space. I cant speak for others just myself. But I want to have a choice, a decision to choose the time and place. Its important for a women, they dont look to be hurried. We want to take our sweet time.

It’s not true to say that people who choose to be anon “hide” as you say from others. They dont hide as much as all they desire is to keep their comfort zone intact.

For instance, I happen to be a regular reader of Darkness love stories that “lecturer” and many others consider to be gibberish and nonsense. I even have the whole millenium series of the famous. “confessions of a singaporean gangster in London.” And it attracts a world wide following. Some of the readers even fly in from all over the world for this bi-annual event. And there are plenty of makan and met up and the last one they organized was a cycling sessions. So no one is hidding in the cupboard. lets get real. We do come together, exchange name cards and addresses. There is no issue. But that is because we all trust and share something in common.

Build the trust first, then the 100,000 signatures will come naturally. Dont put the cart before the horse. No amount of empty rhetoric is going to fill in the missing blanks.

labrat

[...] High Notes and Minibombs: From Hong Lim to Istana [Credit to vinyarb for the title] – Singapore Alternatives: Synthetic CDOs – TOC: 100,000 signatures so more people will step forward [...]

Hi Lecturer (#5)

You asked about my attitude towards online anonymity.

I like to classify three groups of people:

1. Those who write with the real name
2. Those who write with a pen name, but they keep to the same identity
3. Those who attack other people under anonymity (and keep changing their names)

I prefer category #1 but category #2 is okay. Perhaps they have reasons to remain anoymous, but they give honest views.

I have been the subject of persistent attacks by people in category #3. They dislike me for some reason but will find every opportuinty to attack any views that I have.

hi jy (#2)

You asked if I have the passion for political office. My honest answer is “Not for myself”. I am already 60 years old, and have enough money to retire comfortably.

But, if there are sufficient people who want change and are willing to step forward, I am willing to work with them.

Singaporeans are known to be fearful and like to complaint. I hope to encouage them to hae a postive attitude and come forward to do something about improving our conditions.

If they trust me, they can add their signature (at the very least). If they do not trust me, they can stay away. There is no need to attack me.

Mr Tan,

You may have misunderstood me.

I have read your blog. In fact, you have the foresight to forewarn Singaporeans of toxic financial investment. You have the knowledge and skill to contribute to the well being of Singapore.

You are one of the very few who were prepared to stand up and speak your mind and you speak well.

It would be good for Singaporean if you MAKE UP YOUR MIND and declare I AM IN. Sacrifice your retirement comfort for the sake of Singapore and Singaproeans.

Stop saying “NOT FOR MYSELF”.

It must be FOR YOURSELF. Your sense of justice, your sense of love for the country and your sense of EMPATHY for your Singaporeans… For example, a person of your calibre and conscience will certainly not allowed people like TEO HO PIN to TALK RUBBISH and GET AWAY WITH IT.

Don’t come and tell us, “I do not need it, I am doing it for you, I can do it if you want me to do it, I will not do it if you do not want me to do it.”

Come on, LETS DO IT.

Mr Tan,
I welcome the changes that many of us long for, and not that I doubt your abilities, but how are you going to get wround the current ruling party’s many red-tapes and controls on our so called Politcial Arena???

The answer may lie in the hands of got. if you know wat i mean.
I do not foresee any way to change policies or rules in a short time that will remove the tapes.

Thus, I deduce that only the act will be able to achieve .

I think we should stop looking up to Mr Tan KL for a definate solution. Seriously, if you keep waiting for Mr. Tan for a front line solution, it’s not going to get us further.

I believe Mr Tan KL has at least shown us by example how each and every citizen should engage our government, to show concern, conviction and a passion for state affairs and it;s people. And I believe me and alot of people lack in this area.

We are a mix of characters, personalities, ideas, wrongs and rights, past failures but put together we can be a people for the people. Honestly, we are a less caring society unless someone tells us to do so or has set an example. Our instinct for selflessness is missing.

I believe he has done his part of delivering us to the door albeit many criticism, and it is up to us to walk through it.

If you have signed the petition, it not only goes to show you support Mr. Tan call, it also goes to show you are taking your own path and contributing to a small change towards our political climate.

From an honest stranger.

Do everyone wants change? If answer is “yes”, stop reading all the comments and start gathering signatures, first submit your own letter to TKL. To all those uncles and aunties who are not internet savvy, what can be done?

I hope this 100000 names comes from all corners of singapore and every walk of life.

To Mr Lecturer… I am sure you are a most learned professional… My advice to you, if i may be so humble as to offer you any, is to stop hiding behind your academic ivory tower and get engaged with the real world. Other academics like Catherine Lim even a woman has the (pardon the expression) ‘balls’ to do so, openly. What’s your excuse?

We grumble about lack of transparency of the PAP, yet you want to hide behind your monicker.

We grumble about PAP being out of touch with the people.. yet you persist in theorizing and hypothesizing behind your academic ideals of anonymity that few people in Sg bother about.

Jeyaratnam.. and even the 3 SDP guys who were prosecuted wearing their Kangaroo court T shirts.. that spoke VOLUMES to the masses of what true courage and grit is all about to fight for your convictions.

Its EASY to be an anonmymous arm chair critic and not get your fingers dirtied…..

Dear Mr Tan,

Thank you for taking the time to write this column and to address certain issues.

“If a large number of people sign the petition, it will encourage more people (not just me) to come forward to take part in the contest.” – I have having a little difficulty in understanding your current stand. Are these 100,000 signatures for YOU to establish a mandate or is it to encourage PEOPLE to come forward to take part in the contest? It does appear that it is more likely to be the latter. This then makes sense in your commitment level. For you, the MP or EP post is secondary to the possibility of an alternative view, which seems to be your primary concern. And again, your statement, “I wish to keep this option (MP or EP) open.” now makes sense. For you, that is not the issue. What is more important is the existence of a contest. However, I am still very uncomfortable with the idea of electing someone to public office knowing his heart and soul is not in it.

“100,000 signatures is for greater impact.” – If the 100,000 signatures to encourage the masses to come forward, then truly 100,000 signature makes more sense. It is a symbolic number. A number to ra-ra the masses. For out of the 100,000, it is most likely that only a few will be actively participating but it does not matter. It is just a shout out to the masses to come forward.

At this juncture, I wish to digress and address this topic of anonymous posting. Let is face it, other than our IP address, what is truly ‘real’ in the online world. For all you know, I am actually Doreen, and not Darren. And yet I also believe in responsibility and accountability. And the beautiful truth is that these 2 ideas need not be mutually exclusive. I believe if we are truly sincere about creating awareness among the people, we will need the telephone number of some sort of validation. Otherwise, how will Mr Tan know that the 100,000 signature was actually made my just a few hundred with different email addresses? I believe Mr Tan needs to validate his data. However, for those who are uncomfortable in the giving of data, that is not an issue either. No deadline has been given to ‘sign’ up. In fact Mr Tan seems to understand it will be a long process. He did say it will take a few years and this is the reason why he is informing the public way before election. Anonymous posters can take their time to build their trust around whatever machinery Mr Tan is developing.

“We need to implement policies that can give a better life for all the people, and not just for an elite few. I prefer our society to be more egalitarian.” – Like I have mentioned before, these are ‘comfort’ words. I would be more interested in finding out how you will be translating these ideas to reality.

Hi jy (#16)

You have a more generous interpretation my situation. Do remember that there are other people who think differently from you and are cynical about my intent.

There are many other people who know how difficult the task is, to implement the change that is required. We need more people to come forward – at least to sign the petition.

Darren (#22)

You asked the question:

We need to implement policies that can give a better life for all the people, and not just for an elite few. I prefer our society to be more egalitarian.” – Like I have mentioned before, these are ‘comfort’ words. I would be more interested in finding out how you will be translating these ideas to reality.

I will answer the questions on a future occasion. I know it is difficult to win your support at this time, and will leave the matter as it it.

Aas a grassroots leader, i was appalled when i saw an email from the PAP whip to the g/l on the ways the Govt are going to manage the minibond crisis. Why? well it was addressed to both PAP activist and Grassroots leaders. This only confirmed me that the PA is assumed to be on the side of the PAP whom they presume as Govt. This is bad for the growth of civil society. Down with PAP!! My MP don’t even have concrete plans and even if he has never relay it to citizens. From my perspective of things, most of the “political” works are done by grassroots leaders and the people association at a municipal level. LKY should just declare we are a Communist country if this IS the case. I am disappointed at the Govt “honesty”. I will NOT vote for PAP when 2011 come..that’s for sure.

Mr Tan,

cheers to your success in getting the number of signatures you need.
also have seen several actions that you’ve done to help people (especially those invest in Lehman Bro thing…)

also very sad to see the loss that town council made & still come up with reasons, well these people are scholars, so maybe they’re very good in language, but people like us only so-so, working working & continue pay conservancy fees…

My proposal is for TKL to come up with a concrete plan on how to run the election and if he is elected what kind of representative will he be?

Maybe he can draw up a kind of manifesto so that people can refer to and either either or disagree with the proposal for change.

Obama when he runs for Presidency has a broad campaign plan “For change” and other smaller more detailed proposals e.g. scrapping Guatemala Bay, pulling out the troops from Iraq/Afghanistan, etc. This will allow possible supporters to know what they are supporting instead of who.

Often, the public will want to know the agenda of the candidate so that besides all the big ra-ra they know what the candidate will represent.

Obamam of course represents “change” and for democratic values This was all along his party’s manifesto.

Maybe TKl can do something like this so that people can identify with what he believs in instead of broad statements like honesty, transparency,etc.

hi labrat

pray tell us how cycling and makan sessions translate to political action? or what this trust that you called?

Good Afternoon,

Knowledge is a great treasure. Is it not? But there is one thing greater than knowledge, and that is understanding. My feel by asking people to commit their personal details you’re setting yourself up for failure even from the word go.

You should give yourself the benefit of time and get to know the online community better; what is the rush after all? Things in my opinion have moved too fast and its conceivable many people still have many issues to iron out BEFORE they can be reasonably expected to commit.

What is important for the purposes of UNDERSTANDING is to grasp the brass tacks, most netizens are NOT an apathetic – if they are why have they even bothered to migrate online to read the counter narrative? Neither are they ambivalent or bovine about the whole issue of change either; ONLY people need time to know where you’re coming from and the Tao is really like the ripening of fruit; the process cannot be hastened; if it’s to be chased then the secret lies very much in the litany of the mundane; doing probably the same stuff day in and day out – sometimes without even the merest prospects of reward, very much in the way, a good husband will do the little things to make sure that his wife is left in absolutely no doubt she and only she alone remains the only love in his life and destiny would have it no other way; the magic lies in the repetition; this cannot be purchased on the cheap either by giving her diamonds or duty free perfume – the secret lies in dedicating oneself to the small stuff; where the ordinariness of life resides – its never the big stuff like what happens in HLP.

Yes, I understand. From time to time, we can all dream of greatest and it may even shoot right up to our head like proof alcohol transporting us to the floating world where we may even believe that one calling alone can somehow shake the world to its very foundations; but really that’s a bit like this fairytale isn’t it;

“In a while, this English boy disappeared with the rest of the crowd, leaving only both of us standing by the steps and four body guards standing some distance away. Yet even then, I did not speak and just at the moment when she came to her senses and would be expected to turn away or say something like, “why do you look at me in this way, do you not know it is rude”. Her hands fidgeted with her necklace nervously and just when her eyes tore away and she felt the first wave of embarrassment brushing her flushed red cheeks for having allowed herself to behave in this matter before a stranger.

I moved in with the spirit of a man who was about to pluck a fruit just when it had reached it’s sweetest moment – Jeannie Yu never had a chance, it was love at first sight.”

Yes, he sounds like the mythical lover doesn’t he – only he never ever once existed, except in the figment of the lone writers imagination.

And even then, as I remembered it the man who once wrote these words, wrote in obscurity; when no one even bothered to read and they even told him so directly – but he just wrote, posted, wrote posted and wrote and posted and one day, as if by sheer magic, the world suddenly came silent and he too became very much like the mythical lover – the circle was complete.

Small steps…smaller the better….one step at a time…that is the first step understanding teaches us all. The rest is mere commentary.

SD (Internet liaison officer of the brotherhood)

#25) grassroot leader,

Any way we can have a look at the juicy contents of the letter? :)
Maybe you can email or mail the hardcopy to onlinecitizen to publish under anonymity.

I can’t wait to have an expose of that sort. So exciting.

I am with you all the way.
I am also trying to get people to sign up their wish.
If they feel comfortable to give their phone numbers and email address, that would be better.
But if they don’t , I shall just tally them and these will give me an inkling of the direction of their thinking.
Honestly, I feel that we have still not got rid of the culture of fear, not for some time to come.
Thanks for the wake up call.

Hi Mr Tan Kin Lian,

Kudos for all that you have done and hope that you can further galvanise Singaporeans and eradicate all factors that have been instilled to breed political apathy amongst them.

Its imperative that the universal suffrage eroding GRCs be dismantled and have all the hitch hiking walkover incumbent new MPs to prove their competency and worth by contesting alone and shows that SG is truely a democracy : ie one by elected representatives of the people and not by walkovers.

Mr. Tan, i am one of those who signed the petition.

However, I wish there is a way I can withdrew it now. The fact is – I am uncomfortable with the constant claim of yours:

“My honest answer is “Not for myself”. I am already 60 years old, and have enough money to retire comfortably.”

You have to be in someway acknowledge the fact that it is for yourself. You have a clarion call to drive change, maybe baby steps but YOU have to be part of the equation.

To Darren/JY/Lecturer,

LOOK! Do you want change or not? Change comes at a price and progress is not guaranteed. This holds true regardless if TKL were to stand up for election for MP/EP. TKL’s petition is merely an instrument that represents Singaporeans’ desire for change in Singapore’s political regime. By far, he is the only Singaporean with comparable managerial experience with PAP MPs who has chosen to go public about his political views of the PAP.

The strength of the instrument is indicated by the number of signatures behind it. Thank you for pointing out that the authorities may discredit TKL by claiming that TKL may fake the signatures. That is within expectation of PAP’s underhandedness to stay in power unchallenged.

None of the Opposition MP in parliament are an effective challenge against PAP, no wonder LHL said in 2006 that “right now, we have Low Thia Kang, Chiam and Steve Chia. We can deal with them. It is okay.” and has not engaged in actively jeopardising their political careers. The kind of Opposition MPs PAP want is the type that PAP can deal with comfortably.

beside TKL for president/MP, I also support Leong Sze Hian if he wishes to do something =)
He is very good at find out what is NOT being reported, whenever a govt or govt link report throws out a bunch of numbers. I expect if he questions the figures, all PAP can answer is that ‘the information is privileged’.

You have to be in someway acknowledge the fact that it is for yourself. You have a clarion call to drive change, maybe baby steps but YOU have to be part of the equation. – Jazzy John (#33)

Don’t you understand what it means by “Help me get 100,000 signatures”? You have tp interpret TKL’s message in Singapore’s context of the climate of fear.

I am sure you have heard of rumours such that if you have voted for Opposition, you will not get priority for HDB flat ballots. Some people have also commented that they voted for PAP because they are scared of repercussion if they were to have voted for Opposition.

It is this climate of fear we Singaporeans have to overcome first before Loyal Opposition in Singapore can grow. Growth not only means more people will stand for election, but also more people are willing to listen what the Loyal Opposition has to offer, unlike now whereby many Singaporeans choose to self-censor.

In fact, this petition has demonstrated that every Singaporean can challenge this climate of fear in their own small way, simply by soliciting signatures from their friends and families. It is a small and simple act that is within practical means of every ordinary Singaporean.

Hello Mr Tan,
If you put in the petition, that you’d accept/request for a modest pay (say the current rate of about 40k USD that the American President currently receives for starters) if you become president, I’ll sign the petition.

And I’m sure many others will do too.

Cheers.

All HDB Leaseholders should be partially responsible for the matter.
The problem is that singaporeans dare not show their identity when disclosing their opinions.

If you guys agree with me that we are partially responsible, then try to extrapolate what other things we should know and are responsible as well.

Let me digress…. I hope to Retire with my money. and tour other countries and rest and relax. How about you?

I confess. I support the idea of having more credible candidates for EP or MP.
Ideally, MP which I feel is more practical for the current system we are in.

Nevertheless, I must also confess that
It is a puzzle to me
how TKL, TOC’s members have gotten so much publicity via the MSM :

1. TKL on today’s MSM ST .

2. Mr Leong on 100.3 FM this week. MSM Radio.

3. Gerald Giam on CNA TV all dressed up handsomely for a ’special’.

4. The very dynamic Mr Choo the chief editor got the limelight on CNA PRIME TIME morning And appeared on the show BlogTV hosted by The Flying Dutchman.

5. Others….

Yes, I have been paying attention. Despite so many are hungry for CHANGE, we must not forget to QUESTION Ourselves.

What is going on? this is a real puzzle. But i have a hunch what is going on.

1 thing for sure, my impression of MSM has not changed and I do not expect to change. I learn that life is really not so straightforward all of the time.

rgds
Selamat wong – I am accountable

Since the comments has somewhat touched on the issue of anonymity, let me throw in my support to you, Kin Lian, for requesting non-anonymity.

The way I see it: since we’re demanding accountability of our MPs and GICs and TCs and whatnot, isn’t it the same accountability that one cast away the cloak of anonymity? Look at prominent online critics, e.g. editors of TOC, Alex Au, Ng E-jay… how many have gotten into trouble for their online criticisms?

There may be exceptions, but in general, I take the stand that people ought to cast aside their anonymity and be accountable to their words and actions.

I also agree that our elites are being extremely tolerant this time to allow all this dissent to be generated from TOC and their members. History has shown that they will usually use sledgehammers to swat even a fly.

However, I do hope that they have awakened to their mistaken belief that by instilling fear in the people and repressing differing opinions is good for the country and will now allow more people to voice up without fear of reprisals.

25) disgruntled grassroots on November 27th, 2008 2.11 pm Aas a grassroots leader, i was appalled when i saw an email from the PAP whip to the g/l on the ways the Govt are going to manage the minibond crisis. Why? well it was addressed to both PAP activist and Grassroots leaders. This only confirmed me that the PA is assumed to be on the side of the PAP whom they presume as Govt. This is bad for the growth of civil society. Down with PAP!! My MP don’t even have concrete plans and even if he has never relay it to citizens. From my perspective of things, most of the “political” works are done by grassroots leaders and the people association at a municipal level. LKY should just declare we are a Communist country if this IS the case. I am disappointed at the Govt “honesty”. I will NOT vote for PAP when 2011 come..that’s for sure.

Hope to see more grassroot leaders come to realise what they have been doing all these years were actually not for the country but for the ruling party instead. Its never too late to reverse and do the right thing for the country.

Dear Mr Tan KL
I fully agree with all your answers. All your points are very sound. My support for you is now even stronger. I will sign the petition so that you can count on me. I am also willing to donate $50 towards your election expenses.
May god bless you and bring us a Singapore Moses to lead us from the political wilderness.

Hi Tan Kin Lian , your comment #14 above.

I agree with what you said about the 3 categories. As long as people have something constructive to contribute it does not really matter whether they use their real name or remain anonymous under a pen name – the real solid substance is what really matters. We are all communicating our thoughts, sharing our opinions, – the real purpose of all these postings.
Maybe Mr Tan K.L. could consider to modify a little bit his requests for email addresses and phone numbers “by saying very clearly that these are optional and not a must.” I did the same when I was trying to start a neighborhood support group in my kampong. I asked for opinions, support, and for volunteers, and I asked for their emails and phone numbers but stating quite clearly that its optional and those who wish to keep their privacy need not provide such details.

I disagree with Jazzy John.
I think that TKL’s point about doing this not for himself etc reflects his altruistic intentions to help society esp those less fortunate or less educated.
We need more people like TKL to come out of the woodwork, the rare few who are committed, passionate and truly want to do the right thing.
All for FREE.

TKL belongs to rare breed of individuals who do not need a million dollars a year to step up. Haven’t we had enough of people who are “helping” but in reality they’re actually doing it for the $ ? … they take million $, screw up & turn around & blame u ?

If I were TKL, I’ll go for MP & not EP.
TKL is too financially savvy to be allowed to hold the key to our reserves ;-)
The powers will never let that happen….remember Mr Ong Teng Cheong?
So for self preservation……..better do MP first… ;-)

I wish he can run for EP. I want to see how the government denies him the position this time. =)

Once the government denies him, then maybe he can run for MP. but sighs.

A: look at the current opposition in parliament.

B: sorry wait, did you say there was opposition? did not notice any.

Leong Sze Hian should be his sidekick as the deputy President. gotta give credit to Mr Leong as well for exposing the big truth of our town council’s sinking funds and SC charges rising up higher than inflation.
What do Mr Leong say about this since they both talked about finance related stuff . The online citizen party !

Dear Mr Tan Kin Lian,

It now appears that you are really serious about getting into politics. If that is the case, I will try to be more positive towards your future plans.

Let me highlight the good points:

(1) You are a rare and brave man. I hope you will inspire other like-minded people to join you.

(2) The signature campaign, if successful, may be the tipping point for some positive developments in Singapore politics.

(3) Your aims of a more just and egalitarian society, elections made legitimate by being fully contested, leaders being more representative of people’s interests are all laudable.

But, I have reservations about 2 points:

(1) Putting a figure of 100,000 as a target can be disabling if it is not met. You may be burdened by being labelled as a failure in the future.

(2) Your repeated mention of your ready escape route of a golden and comfortable retirement is off-putting. Please imagine – if all your supporters were to listen to you and reveal all their identities and rally openly to support you, only to be told later to drop the whole project – what would happen to their careers and their families? You, the retiree, would not be there to save them! Please address this point.

I thank you.

Hoping to join all of you at HLP tomorrow evening.

For sure, the lion dance troupe will again dong dong chang there.

I’ll be there this Saturday, to support you, Sir.

May God bless and guide you all the way.

I am working overeseas. Had not been back for five years. I did not vote in the last election. Walkover anyway.

I would like to sign the petition but I would probably not be back for voting, whether EP or GE.

Thus, while I support TKL, it will not show at the ballot box, thus I refrain from signing the petition.

But, I would still like to say this.. keep it up, Mr TAN.

http://luntan.zaobao.com/viewthread.php?tid=127603&extra=page%3D1&page=1
《陈钦亮发起100万签名请愿竞选总统》

作为一个公民，应该了解自己国家的政治制度，知道政府是如何产生？如何行使权力？更重要的，是知道作为公民，我们有什么权利和应该如何保护自己的权利？

知道这些，我们才能够更好的作出判断 － informed decision. 就好像是否要支持陈钦亮先生的请愿书？我们就大概要了解MP－ member of parliament, 和EP－ elected president 的区别。

国会议员的职权大家比较清楚。现在说说民选总统的职权，民选总统的职权主要有：

（1）准许内阁动用历年来的储备金

（2）批准重大人事案 － 最高捡察长，大法官，公务员首长，贪污调查局局长，三军总司令，陆 海 空军总长，政联公司董事会主席，公共服务委员会主席，stat board 首长。

（3）签署国会通过的法案成为法律

（4）批准预算

也就是说， 民选总统可以否决总理的重大决定， 包括拒绝人事任命，拒绝批准会用到过往的储备金的预算。这是有形的职权。

无形的影响力，在于总统是全民选举出来的，所以某种程度上来说，是得到了全国人民的委任，可以直接诉诸民意。如果总统对于政府的政策有强烈的反对意见，就算他没有权力阻挠，也可以通过他的影响力形成民间的舆论和压力。

当初设立民选总统就是为了限制总理的权力。

Hi Tan Kin Lian,

Thank you Tan Kin Lian for your reply @ 14) Tan Kin Lian on November 27th, 2008 12.10 pm to my question @ 5. I am sorry, I still dont understand your reply.

(1) Do you mean to say you are retracting your original stance towards anon commentators?

(2) Or do you mean, as long as no one anonymous person “attacks” you online you are fine?

(3) Or you mean your original stance towards online anonymity stands?

I am sorry. I remain thoroughly confounded.

——————————————

Moving to another topic.

FYI. I did sign the petition. But retrospectively, when I think back if your intention for requesting this info was just for briefing purposes why couldn’t you have done it online?

Now I seem to be having second thoughts. its nothing personal. Just that I have been doing alot of thinking and I feel it not worth the risk. And I really wish to withdraw my original support. Its nothing personal. Only I have spoken to a few of my close friends and they have informed me in the absence of a clear and unequivocal commitment on your part that the names in the petition will always be kept confidential and circulation should only be limited under permission, then I really dont know who will be thumbing through the names, addresses, IC no’s and IP’s etc.

If there is a level and fair playing field, then I dont have too worry so much. As I have signed many petitions in the US before and no one has ever accused me of interfering with US domestic politics etc. But I seen alot of disturbing things happening / Malaysian pilots who suddenly just get their PR revoked and their wife and kids kicked out within 24 hours / promising writers who just lose their livelihood as a journalist overnight (Mr Brown & Mr Miyagi) bc some minister didnt like what they wrote/ people being hauled up to court just bc they wear T shirts with cartoon characters and it goes on and on.

I am sorry, could you please provide me with a way to retract my name from the petition. I would well much better and I would really appreciate it, thanks.

Many thanks

Hi Lecturer (#53)

I have a lot of things to do. I hope that you understand that I do not have the time to read long postings and reply to individual questions in detail.

If you send me your particulars, I can ask my volunteer to withdraw your name from the petition. But to be fair to us, is this necessary? Why are you giving so much trouble to my volunteers?

My preference is for people to post with their real name. If they have reason to post with an assumed name, it is okay with me, so long as they give honest view. Anyway, this is just my view – and it does not deserved to be attacked.

I think that it is improve to attack any person under anonymity. It is unnecesary to attack any person, even if done under a real name.

As I said, if we have a level and fair playing field, then there is nothing to worry abt. As I see it what we have here is a bunch of people who change the rules whenever it suits them and even if they lose everything, they can even throw away the rule book.

I dont think, I want to play, its not worth the risk.

But I seen alot of disturbing things happening / Malaysian pilots who suddenly just get their PR revoked and their wife and kids kicked out within 24 hours / promising writers who just lose their livelihood as a journalist overnight (Mr Brown & Mr Miyagi) bc some minister didnt like what they wrote/ people being hauled up to court just bc they wear T shirts with cartoon characters and it goes on and on.

Do singaporeans have to go through all these shits? Obviously, this is something going very wrong in our country, this is definately not something being painted to the world outside there and of course, this is illegal.

I wonder what the fuss is all about?

If an educated guy can be so afriad of the authorities by doing something right and ethically feasible, what about the ah soh and ah pek?

This is something very worrying and frightening in a first world country like ours.

It is a system of fear that we operate in. I am very disturbed.

Change must come or else…

Gilbert!
Sometime I just wonder what will all those working or serving the police and the army force would be thinking in their mind on all these doing what is right and just as they too have parents like us. We are all the same citizens of singapore, living and working here in this tiny red dot, facing each and everyday of our lives in fear all these years, fear of being threaten, fear of being harrassed, fear of being followed, fear of being targetted, and worse, fear of even doing the right things for ourselves and for the people around us, its real sad such things still exist in this modern world we are living in.

“57) Gilbert Goh on November 28th, 2008 10.51 am
This is something very worrying and frightening in a first world country like ours.”

So what do you think. Is our system more empowering for the general benefits of all or more self-serving for the benefits for some annointed group.

The feared are advicing other feared how they go about fearing the fear.

As I said, if we have a level and fair playing field, then there is nothing to worry abt. As I see it what we have here is a bunch of people who change the rules whenever it suits them and even if they lose everything, they can even throw away the rule book. – Lecturer (#55)

But if Singaporeans don’t retaliate by uniting together to re-establish a level playing field, we will always remained bullied and no MP will give us a listening ear to take our concerns to parliament. By the time PAP has finally squandered all of Singapore’s fortune, it would be too late to retaliate already. Hence, I find it hardly surprising that many abled Singaporeans rather emigrate than contribute to reforming the political climate of Singapore.

“58) tiredsingaporean on November 28th, 2008 11.16 am Gilbert!
Sometime I just wonder what will all those working or serving the police and the army force would be thinking in their mind on all these doing what is right and just as they too have parents like us.”

You are almost there. Read The Anatomy of the State by Murray N. Rothbard. It will be an eye opener about the different forces being employed.

i do not understand why some of you here are so adamantly convinced that singaporeans are despotically suppressed, and feel that you should be the liberators, or how your unfounded fears of tyranny from the authorities came to be.

let me just ask a few questions: are singaporeans truly deprived in our this situation? is the governing body just a bunch of autocrats seeking to benefit only themselves?

some of you cite the clamping down on political dissidents (kangaroo shirts, contempt in court, bloggers, blah blah blah) as an example of fear-mongering, of a system of fear, where all are trapped and forbidden to express opinions. have you not for a moment thought about how is it possible that this website, with your dissents against the government, is still allowed to operate amid all these censors? let us just talk about the kangaroo-trios for a bit. imagine if a guy on the street points a middle-finger at you, and you have to have a respond, what will your reaction be? malicious actions only invite malevolent reactions, action reactions. go figure smarties.

you people here think that a political superman will break in to save the day, chanting the mantra of ‘change change change’. did you think for one second that the citizens on the streets care? they may complain about severals inconveniences here and there, but ultimately, deep in their minds they know that singapore cannot be any worse than our neighbours. in fact, as compared to these places, we would rather be in here than anywhere else.

get real, political ideologies will not get the country to greater heights. what difference does it make if we are under communism or democracy? had usa failed economically under their democracy-ruled governance, would any of you be so supportive of the ideal now? if the citizens get a good life and are not suppressed, then why should there be a need to change?

63) eiro: “if the citizens get a good life and are not suppressed, then why should there be a need to change?”

This is a good question.

The crux of the matter for most posters here are:

Not good life + suppressed life = need to change.

Get it?

“i do not understand why some of you here are so adamantly convinced that singaporeans are despotically suppressed,’

By saying this alone, we know that you do not understand at all. It only tells us that you must be someone still wet behind your ears. Am I right.

“imagine if a guy on the street points a middle-finger at you, and you have to have a respond, what will your reaction be? malicious actions only invite malevolent reactions, action reactions. go figure smarties.”

Then you should get ‘whacked’ lah. Is this the same as getting ‘whacked’ for telling the other fellow that he is pointing a middle-finger at you. go figure smarties.

“you people here think that a political superman will break in to save the day, chanting the mantra of ‘change change change’. did you think for one second that the citizens on the streets care?”

Then why are you here ? To tell us again that we have heard so many times already.

“get real, political ideologies will not get the country to greater heights. what difference does it make if we are under communism or democracy?”

No difference ? In some countries, people die just because of this.

what do i not understand that so many of you here do? and to what extent of dryness must i achieve to be capable of expressing an opinion here? you pride yourself upon your pseudo conviction that only you have the answers, that only you understand enough to make a comment. do you truly believe that if the country is run by your terms you can make this a better place than it is now?

and are you telling me that the judiciary system here should have humbly accept that they are incapable of passing judgements? that we should allow public dissents just because some people are complaining? you want a revolution, but will a revolution be beneficial to the citizens? you want a revolution, how do you suppose you can achieve it without converting the people on the streets to your ideology? you want a revolution, do you also want us to be like thailand, or taiwan?

“In some countries, people die just because of this.” in some countries, like singapore, people survive happily under such a vague distinction.

our actions are controlled by strict enforcements, but our minds are not. what can you achieve if all you want is a public display of civil disobedience? sure, singapore has not achieved the political freedom you people so adore, but has that prevented us from thinking freely? you voice your opinions, you criticise the government, but can you tell me that you rather live in a country like taiwan (a full-fledge democratic country)?

i care because although i respect the values which are driving you guys, i shudder at the angry-mob rhetorics you display.

63) eiro on November 28th, 2008 1.28 pm

You have good life, you have good wealth. Ah you are the best example of take care of yourself. That’s why political change is foreign subject to you. Why bother right? Life is good for you. As long as people in your social circle are happy and have good life. Stay there. Not need waste your words telling what people here are doing. :)

“sure, singapore has not achieved the political freedom you people so adore, but has that prevented us from thinking freely? you voice your opinions, you criticise the government, but can you tell me that you rather live in a country like taiwan (a full-fledge democratic country)?”

Sure enough that you are able to think so freely and yet able to quote Taiwan as a example only ? So in this world, Taiwan is the only country beside Singapore exists ? So did you ever fall into the trap of gov deliberately highlight Taiwan’s plight to show how fortunate Singaporeans are ? You can think but yet can’t see the smokescreen ? Why not choose other positive country , and why regurgitate what MSM tell and illustrated ?

We have so many Chen ShuiBian who pays millions and yet don’t know the fart thing. Answer just like Chen ShuiBian’s “I don’t know”. Compare to Taiwan ? We are disgracing Taiwan to make us feel proud ! Use the brain to question why Ah Loong now have to go latin Amercica, why not Swiss, Finland, and better managed economically country. Our clowns love to discredit Taiwan just to please China.

66) eiro: i am fine. on November 28th, 2008 3.01 pm

Aiyah you watch too much Mainstream News, always showing so much violence from Taiwan government – throwing chairs and exchanging blows. How come you don’t complain to the News about showing the violence? And to you this type of violence is good enough to say full democracy is a no-no? Like you know them really well. Maybe you can look for so foreign talent Taiwanese in Sg and ask them.

In Singapore the MP doze off in parliment, i guess that is how you like them, sleeping on subjects?

“you pride yourself upon your pseudo conviction that only you have the answers, that only you understand enough to make a comment. do you truly believe that if the country is run by your terms you can make this a better place than it is now?”

Really ? Are you being thrown in jail for having your own comment. I did not know that holding such emotional qualitative conviction could be labelled as pseudo. Who do you think I am ???? Some superman here to save the world or Singapore ??? Any terms must be one that is collectively & democratically evloving one – not some pseudo (thank you for letting me borrow this term) democratic process.

“and are you telling me that the judiciary system here should have humbly accept that they are incapable of passing judgements?”

Are you referring to matters which are politically loaded ? You have to ask yourself this question which there will be no lack of past examples.

“i care because although i respect the values which are driving you guys, i shudder at the angry-mob rhetorics you display.”

angry-mob rhetorics ? You said it yourself, rhetorics. Yes, mere rhetorics. Do you think this could be worst than being thrown in jail or heavy fine ? If you really care, probe even harder why good decent people are behaving the way they are behaving. There are plentiful in the blogosphere – some of whom are respectable people who have the guts to reveal their true identities (my salute to them).

Good afternoon #63 eiro @ 1.28 pm

What are we really seeing here? Its not about good vs bad / PAP vs the planet of the apes or even whether Taiwan is better than Timbuktu. Or whether Mr Tan is a better contender than Donald duck.

Do you even UNDERSTAND my question eiro? WHAT ARE WE SEEING HERE? I am not asking what is right or wrong or even whether what “lecturer” feels is real or imagined. I am asking what are we seeing here right now at this very moment in time?

UNDERSTAND this! Fear is no good. Doesn’t matter what form it comes in. Its no good. That is why the ancients often reply when asked, how do you govern a country, the wisest of them all will say, very carefully like frying a small fish – this is easy to share, but it is not so easy to understand. Many people live and die and they know not what this means.

You see it is very simple – when people fear; it just doesn’t come around, if you are a salaried man and you fear, you will die a salaried man, you will never venture into the blue yonder and do your own business – if you are a minister and you fear; then you will stick your neck out only conventionally, that way even if you fail, you will have the defense of failing conventionally and if you are a citizen and you fear, then you will never be able to turn the wheel of life gainfully, you will spend many hours chasing shadows and battling imaginary demons – how can you move forward when you are looking at the rear mirror all the time?

Do you UNDERSTAND eiro now what is the terrible cost of fear? Nothing comes around. Fear is the mind killer. Fear paralyses, it obliterates everything and that simply means there can never be any UNDERSTANDING – look at lecturer, I said look at him! LOL he’s a wreck now only a few days ago, he was a fire brand, the mind game has had his fill with him and now he’s incapacitated; his mind is filled with all sorts of nonsense; he is probably hiding underneath his desk this very minute trying to get a passport to Bolivia. As he is imagining all sorts of things such as what is the purpose of gathering this petition list? Who will thumbing through it? Did I take it hook, line and sinker.

Do you UNDERSTAND what a great diffusion of energy that must be? Can you even contemplate what a great waste that might be and how it fails so miserably to redeem the cause of what it means to even be alive or to be a human?

If ONLY you know the real cost of fear, then you would shaddap and not write the things you do; as you will be filled with UNDERSTANDING instead of ignorance.

To understand this, you don’t need to learn anything NEW; you just need to unlearn many OLD things; then you will be able to destroy the secret policeman in your head; once you put him into a nice citrus smelling pine box; then fear will go away; and only you will remain and you will be filled with UNDERSTANDING.

Do you UNDERSTAND?

SD (Internet Liaison officer of the brotherhood)

Singaporedady,

Bingo

63) eiro on November 28th, 2008 1.28 pm

If you came in here as a concerned citizen to voice your opinion, whether it is out of personal interest or the fear of your current happy living being threatened by how vociferous readers and posters here give their perspective of the current ruling party, I can see your point and respect your view point. Every one of us will have our rights to voice our opinion and be heard.

When you started to make sweeping statements like “you people” to announce your entrance, then I would welcome you to stay on and continue the discourse. fair? Have you ever consider the fact why is this so? Why some posters’ view can be so extreme? What constituted people to react in such manner?

I take offence in your kind of sweeping statement as I am a regular visitor here. Yes, I do not deny the fact there are views that may have gone over-board, but I am a staunched believer in free speech and I do respect other people’s opinion and if I decide to counter their opinion I will make a direct response to that particular poster. You are not force to take in their view and you could simply ignore and disregard. The choice is entirely yours to make.

We don’t have to compare to any country as we are strictly speaking in terms of the Singapore context (there is none so unique in the world to compare to Singapore). Singaporeans for Singapore. But, if you want to pick a country to compare, I think it is only fair that you had live in that country long enough to know enough of their culture and people and understand how their policies evolved and not just regurgitate from what you heard or read from the main stream media or even reading from other news source. One or a few incidences do not translate to a failure of their policy or governing rule.

Bluntly put, you are not the only educated person who may hold a stable job and good income, great exposure and may have many living experiences in different countries. There are no shortage of such intellectuals here, but the major difference is that we do care for our less fortunate fellow Singaporeans who are working their butts off trying to make ends meet, our dire straits fellow Singaporeans who are yearning and hope that someone is willing to lend them a listening ear to voice their fear and anxieties and yet our current government continues to be deaf ridden and some excessively paid mediocre nincompoops MP and high ranking civil servants even displayed their arrogance and ignorance. So, please, don’t try to lecture us here (I will forgive you if you are as young as partner92, he is only 16 and yet to experience the reality of society), but remember my fellow Singaporean, respect is earned and not a given. If you understand mandarin 冰冻三尺，非一日之寒. I assumed you do as an intellectual and since most Singaporeans are multi-lingual.

you speak about fear, you speak about the dire consequences one will face when fearful, you speak about fearing your back and checking the rear-mirror constantly and cautiously.

why do you sell fear when fear is not wanted? what do you mean by real fear? do i not understand because i am fearless or are you ignorant because you are fearful? fear is in the mind, what do you have to fear if there is nothing to fear? you fear the authority because you fear that you may be wrong. you fear the constitution because you are in dissonance with the established ideals. you fear because you, within your mind, body and soul, created that fear. and now you try to instil it in the rest of us.

what do you mean when you asked what i see at this moment? i see a peaceful country, a progressing nation, albeit with less freedom then ideal, but still a comfortable restriction. i see the blurring of distinctions, i see the opportunities for greatness, i see possibilities. what do you see then, singaporedaddy?

all right then daniel, if taiwan is not a good example, where is? shall i compare us to the united states? do you want 30% of our nation to not know where our country is on the map? or shall we say britain? where the income gap between the poor and the rich would qualify any projects to bridge the gap a “bridge to nowhere”. do you prefer higher taxes in return for a ideally-aligned government? you seem to like the swiss do you not? have you seen what happened when their banking system collapsed?

should one be thrown in jail for freedom of expressions? i do not know. but instead of political freedom, why can’t you think upon the threads of political sensitivity? words have power, they have the power to influence, think of stalin, hitler, in assuming that they have the answers to their countries ideology-deficiency, they have become the axis of evil.

you are arguing for the truth of your values, so am i. it just happens that i do not believe that you are truer than i am; you believed the same too.

Erm okie lets not fight over words or believes or ideas. If you like to see better changes for our country…

Please signed the pettion ..

“should one be thrown in jail for freedom of expressions? i do not know. but instead of political freedom, why can’t you think upon the threads of political sensitivity? words have power, they have the power to influence, think of stalin, hitler, in assuming that they have the answers to their countries ideology-deficiency, they have become the axis of evil.”

Yes, words have power. That is why certain people are afraid of it and do not want you to talk too much.

Political sensitivity? mutual my friend, it has to be mutual. Lay people like us do not possess much resource & influence to launch the first ferocious bite of insensitivity and become ‘non-sensitive’ out of the blue. Have you for once considered that it is the very sensitivity of the lay people that has been arrogantly attacked all this while. Wake up my friend,

“you are arguing for the truth of your values, so am i. it just happens that i do not believe that you are truer than i am; you believed the same too.”

Agreed. In this respect, we are safe. At least, we cannot throw one another into jail.

Good afternoon again #75) eiro: i understand, perhaps in my own terms, but i understand. @ 4.18 pm

“why do you sell fear when fear is not wanted?”

Think about what you’re writing. LOL how can I possibly be the one who markets fear? Did I sue anyone and cripple them with mountains of debts? Did I bend the law to suit my own nefarious ends by kicking out ppl just bc they may harbor a difference of opinion from me?

The question is simply this: is the perception of fear prevalent within the general public? The rest of what you written is a sterile debate unless you can answer this ONE question successfully – so you have to forgive me, if I know not why, you;re going around the world.

Real or imagined doesnt matter here – we are not talking about reality as it remains the perception of reality – its conceivable what you may need to UNDERSTAND is fear when it sits somewhere between reality and fiction is often heightened to a state of psychological warfare. Go and do your reading and you will discover that to be the case.

Why do think in Mr Tan’s petition there is a outstanding deficit of some 99,500 who havent signed up yet?

The difference between you and me is when I look at a spade I call it a spade; nothing more or less. I dont try to color it with sweet happy sounding doggy bites to pull the wool over the eyes of the audience like what you’re trying to do; or add in things which arent even there – you on the otherhand have printed out for the entire blogosphere to read that there is NO SUCH THING AS FEAR in the context that I’ve highlighted; but tell me how would that in any way change the reality that we might already be a state of fear real or imagined?

Maybe you choose to he see the world as you want to see it; maybe that is why you see the wisdom of insisting that we should all eat cake? Or maybe you just dont UNDERSTAND – and If that is the case; it is people like you who are the real purveyors of fear.

As for your second question – it is irrelevant. If you dont even have the capacity to UNDERSTAND, then all I would be doing is throwing pearls at swines – you must forgive me if I remain fearful of indulging in such a worthless enterprise.

Good Day

SD (Internet Liaison officer of the brotherhood)

yes, you may be right. for the powerful, sensitivity of the insignificant is the thing they use to ransom the lay man and the weak. this weapon they strike people with is the very weapon that must be used to protect. it must be a delicate balance. but does sensitivity make one weak? those who exploit it are weaker.

i do not wish to lecture any of you on what to think or what to do, it is not my position. it is for selfish reasons that i commented in here: to seek clarification. only with clarity then can one see further.

“all right then daniel, if taiwan is not a good example, where is? shall i compare us to the united states? do you want 30% of our nation to not know where our country is on the map? or shall we say britain? where the income gap between the poor and the rich would qualify any projects to bridge the gap a “bridge to nowhere”. ”

If you can’t even think of a proper way to compare then stop comparing the way MSM want you to compare. Simple as that. You could only see bad side of Taiwan and yet cannot see the good side of Taiwan’s system, which is exactly what MSM and gov want to do anyway. Now you quoting the negative aspect of other countries to make good your argument. If that is the case then stop comparing and stop quoting other countries then, just focus on how Singapore governing system can be improved without referencing other country. Start with accountability, transparency and responsibility of the gov.

“All right then daniel, if taiwan is not a good example, where is? shall i compare us to the united states? do you want 30% of our nation to not know where our country is on the map? or shall we say britain? where the income gap between the poor and the rich would qualify any projects to bridge the gap a “bridge to nowhere”

You know what I really consider incredulous? That you even have the temerity to compare us with equal standing to countries that:

(a) Have a higher standard of living.

(b) Where the workers are one of the most innovative and productive in the world.

(c) Where they also happen to hold one of the highest per capital / to populace ratio in term of registered patents and innovations.

(d) Where their industries are classed as world class – in terms of manufacturability and delivery reliability e.g Royce Rolls Aerospace division

Hello – I hate to burst your bubble lah – but is it even possible: there is no basis for comparison. Tell me when was the last time we put a man on the moon? Have we developed any jet engines lately? That more or less puts it all in the right scale and perspective – if you want to compare the merits and the demerits of nations, the least you could do is try to put apple against apples, don’t delude yourself by comparing ciku’s with pears – there’s no basis for a comparison.

No wonder they have to moderate an a bent playing field just s o you could kick the ball into the goal – if it were a free and fair fight – you dont stand a chance, but I forgot that’s your definition of good isnt it?

LOL

SD (The Internet Liaison officer of the brotherhood)

Good afternoon again #75) eiro

“why do you sell fear when fear is not wanted?”

Think about what you’re writing. LOL how can I possibly be the one who markets fear? Did I sue anyone and cripple them with mountains of debts? Did I bend the law to suit my own nefarious ends by kicking out ppl just bc they may harbor a difference of opinion from me?

The question is simply this: is the perception of fear prevalent within the general public? The rest of what you written is a sterile debate unless you can answer this ONE question successfully – so you have to forgive me, if I know not why, you;re going around the world.

Real or imagined doesnt matter here – we are not talking about reality as it remains the perception of reality – its conceivable what you may need to UNDERSTAND is fear when it sits somewhere between reality and fiction is often heightened to a state of psychological warfare. Go and do your reading and you will discover that to be the case.

Why do think there is an outstanding deficit of some 99,500 who havent signed up yet?

The difference between you and me is when I look at a spade I call it a spade; nothing more or less. I dont try to color it with sweet happy sounding doggy bites to pull the wool over the eyes of the audience like what you’re trying to do; or add in things which arent even there – you on the otherhand have printed out for the entire blogosphere to read that there is NO SUCH THING AS FEAR in the context that I’ve highlighted; but tell me how would that in any way change the reality that we might already be a state of fear real or imagined?

Maybe you choose to he see the world as you want to see it; maybe that is why you see the wisdom of insisting that we should all eat cake? Or maybe you just dont UNDERSTAND – and If that is the case; it is people like you who are the real purveyors of fear.

As for your second question – it is irrelevant. If you dont even have the capacity to UNDERSTAND, then all I would be doing is throwing pearls at swines – you must forgive me if I remain fearful of indulging in such a worthless enterprise.

Please come back to me on this point.

SD (Internet Liaison officer of the brotherhood)

My answer to your reply @ # 75 is currently under moderation by the webmaster here – pls free to reply to it – I will be most glad to take us the issue with you. Till then.

SD

aiyoyo

this statement very appropriate!

“Many people find life to be too stressful in Singapore.
The cost of living is too high and their wages are inadequate.
They have to work hard just to survive.
We need to implement policies that can give a better life for all the people,
and not just for an elite few.
I prefer our society to be more egalitarian.”

“what do you mean when you asked what i see at this moment? i see a peaceful country, a progressing nation, albeit with less freedom then ideal, but still a comfortable restriction. i see the blurring of distinctions, i see the opportunities for greatness, i see possibilities. what do you see then, singaporedaddy?”

You really want to know what I see? Are you sure? Let me tell you since you asked in such prosaic terms – I see a bunch of cheap pirates (useless half wits) who have no exceptionally whatsoever (that means if they go out in the free market, they can’t even get a decent job that pays them $2,000 max, no one will hire them except their own clique of course) squeezing hard working people of their sweat and brow tax monies – if you must know – that is what I really see and I kid you not.

You want to know what else I see? I don’t see General Motors, Baker McKenzie or even John Hopkins University making a bee line to hire any of these super men and why not? I mean if they are so good why aren’t these people being sought after by businesses – I mean it’s a very simple assumption – so what do I see at the end of the day?

I see a con job very much in the way the Samurais once banned fire arms to perpetuate their class politics – nothing more than a attempt to mythologize and legitimize a lie – that is what I see.

What else do I see?

I see a whole lot of people here, who simply see exactly what I see!

I didn’t start this, but you came after me, so as you can see I don’t fear and I will take it to the next level _ and as you can see I have taken it to the next level.

And that is another thing I see. You have made the situation worst.

SD

all right, so you want to stop comparisons. then by whose standards shall we measure our society? you talk about transparency, responsibilities, accountabilities, using what do you measure transparency? if there is no basis for comparisons, where do your standards come from?

further, in comparing, compare the whole pear with the whole of another pear. you criticised the appropriateness of only using the bad points to illuminate our good, but you forget that these issues are inseparable. let us talk about innovation for one: taiwan has undoubtedly more creativity and innovations than singapore, but the foundation of it is freedom of expression. and look where has absolute freedom led them to.

“You know what I really consider incredulous? That you even have the temerity to compare us with equal standing to countries that:

(a) Have a higher standard of living.

(b) Where the workers are one of the most innovative and productive in the world.

(c) Where they also happen to hold one of the highest per capital / to populace ratio in term of registered patents and innovations.

(d) Where their industries are classed as world class – in terms of manufacturability and delivery reliability e.g Royce Rolls Aerospace division

Hello – I hate to burst your bubble lah – but is it even possible: there is no basis for comparison. Tell me when was the last time we put a man on the moon? Have we developed any jet engines lately? That more or less puts it all in the right scale and perspective – if you want to compare the merits and the demerits of nations, the least you could do is try to put apple against apples, don’t delude yourself by comparing ciku’s with pears – there’s no basis for a comparison.”

do you suppose that we are too inferior to be compared against them? why is it that we must be a pioneer in those areas to be considered equals? must we come up with a singapore nasa, put somebody on mars, before we are to be equals? why do have such low self-esteem, i ask?

so why, instead of me providing with flawed arguments for you to trample on, would you not provide me with something more substantial than a mere rebuttal?

“Do you suppose that we are too inferior to be compared against them? why is it that we must be a pioneer in those areas to be considered equals? must we come up with a singapore nasa, put somebody on mars, before we are to be equals? why do have such low self-esteem, i ask?”

Did I say that we were “inferior?” I simply stated a veritable fact. That if you want to make a comparative, then you would do well to ensure there is equanimity in what you use as a basis for comparison – do I dispute that the Taiwanese parliament is a zoo? No, but that does NOT preclude the fact the despite it being so:

(1) In relative terms since the decampment from the one party KMT rule, Taiwanese free enterprise has prospered exponentially; things are better today than what it used to be under one party corseted KMT rule; power and empowerment of that power has devolved to the people; private enterprise in Taiwan is booming; so there you go; that is a “good” no matter how you cut and splice it – don’t get confused by what happens in the Taiwanese Parliament, that matters little just as organized crime doesn’t bother about two drunks slugging it out the back alley ; my point is simply this contrary to what you forwarded, Taiwan remains an economic powerhouse that surpasses us by leaps and bounds. Do you have any idea how many industries they have compared to us; so wacca you telling me now they didn’t do something right?

No it is not a matter of self esteem – once again it is a matter of scale and perspective which you seem content to elide at every turn and opportunity by disparaging no end what is good about the US or for that matter any country – my point is to illustrate the obvious; that the USA is country where people continue to enjoy one of the highest standards of living and affordable health care – it is also a place that has assumed primacy in the field of technology and the sciences and it is also a country where there is a working democracy and if you want to make a comparative between what produces good and what doesn’t ; then you would also have to take the full gamut of not only what is bad about the US, but how it may even produce the good that may simply reflect on our deficits to follow suit – and why didn’t you do that? And if you didn’t even bother to scale it accordingly – then pray tell how can it even be a comparative?

You get real – we are not the center of universe and it is dangerous to propagate the lie that we are when we are not – truth remains we have a lot to learn from other countries and it begins by first seeing what is good about them.

SD

That shut you nice a proper didnt it?

Have you ever traveled the world?

Well I have and let me tell you something, no one cares what happens in Parliament except maybe in Singapore– I’ve got news for you no one even care what politicians have to say in those countries except perhaps during election time – and while I am at it, let me fry your brains further; its even conceivable there’s nothing wrong with that either – au contraire, it could even be healthy that its so; that’s to say when the populace cultivates a state of terminal ambivalence towards politicians and even come to believe what they may think or do has the least bearing on shaping events and outcomes– for one it would put an end to the corrosive cult of veneration and infallibility; that we so often see these days; I personally dont consider that healthy; not when even newspapers and even ordinary folk acquiescence whole sale to their agendas without ever bothering to ask whether they are doing the right thing; why do you think we lost so much money? And we will lose more money with this attitude.

Neither do I buy into their clap trap about world best either; you know why in countries where they regularly manufacture planes, particle accelerators, nuclear reactors and decent automobiles no one cares about politicians, because that is the clearest testament of power devolving successfully to the people; I cannot think of a better litmus test for the empowerment of people power; and why is that; how can I be so sure fire about what I just said; because if you go to Kowloon central and stop anyone in the streets and ask them who they most want to be its never going to be Donald Tsang, not even under a vermillion sunset; 99 out of a 100 its going to be Li Ka Shin – that’s why Hong Kong is Hong Kong and we are not – if you stop someone in Madison Ave in NYC and ask anyone who you most want to be; it will never ever be George Bush; it will be always Bill Gates or Steve Jobs possibly even Britney Spears; you see that is the difference when you fry a fish well; it browns just so right; now you need to ask yourself what happens when you stop someone in Orchard and ask them who they really want to be?

Dont be surprise if all they want is to aspire to land a scholarship and hopefully get themselves earmarked for a creamy ministerial post.

You see the difference between me and you is simply this; you dont consider that a waste; I do; a criminal waste.

To all those who loves to pour cold water on Mr Tan Kin Lian, [---deleted----]. Go join PAP or get a date since you so free to talk nonsense.

People who dare to write rubbish and being anonymous have no right to ask real people to state their stance. I am anonymous too, so i wont ask (lecturer) to state his or required him to ask Mr Tan to state his. Anyway, Mr Tan has given a clear stand. I know being real requires a good amount of courage but i am still willing to support Mr Tan to make a change from this regime.

I hope that singaporeans no matter how busy u are, please spare some time to print the form out and fill in your names and with a sincere heart n hope for the best for your country. Change will come if you dare to hope!

Comments edited by moderator.
Fever Guy, please don’t get too personal. Tks.

eiro,

I can c u are happy with your current status quo, so nobody ask you to fill up the form so that superman can fly in to save the day. You hope there is no superman, they exist only in USA(superbama). In Singapore, we have liangpopo and PCK they dont make a in anyway seem super politically or intellectually. You can remain in your comfort zone, but remember that the rest are not and will not remain status quo with this political system.

Nobody can force you to support Mr Tan but there is no need for a sweeping statements as if everything we must thank our dear super expensively talented to the near demi-god status gahmen for our dear lives and our children lives and after theirs. We own our existence to ourself and hard work. We dont owe the gahmen or wit for him to feed me or my family. There is no minimum wage or even social safety net to talk about.

Mr EIRO, your life must be comfortable and thankful towards the biggest job provider in singapore but that’s your story. I am and many commentators here know what we are talking about and surely we are no dumbs when we say what we mean. Please stop talking as if you know best and sounded so much like our current crop of highly paid rarely tested unproven and has proven to be weak in leadership, financially incapable, and stupid leaders.

As for standards, please take a good look at Hong Kong for a start. We are no where ahead of them except that we are a sovereign nation, but does it make us any different in terms of quality of life, modern city, wages, social safety net and many others? Please see how an efficient government like HK runs its civil service and police force. They fight AK47 criminal gangs, we singapore let loose a MSK from a high security prison and yet to be found even after mobilize nearly entire police force, army and gurhkas. Can the joke be any bigger? Can see or not? Even our transport system is always one step behind them, they have cashless card 8 years ahead of us, their frequency is so much shorter. Their transport is very efficient. Our gahmen throw money at transport for many years, it is not money all the time, use some brain and get feedbacks from people and sincerely get the problem solve. Money cant solve the problem all the time. Their housing is more expensive but of course they are in a rich neighborhood with japan taiwan china korea nearby, we have a host of poor neighbours and economically despair.

Luckily GOD is fair, he let HK survived well to show the world that Singapore is a sad cousin of HK where a gahmen runs a country like a corporation. Where leaders talk about numbers more than a genuine heart. And money is always the core of the problem n solution. Singaporeans well being like digits to them, and foreigners are like long lost prodigal sons that this country must woo with all costs. Run at all cost even if it means hyper inflation and cuts at all cost when recession is looming.

Is this the singapore you hoped to pass on to your children? High pressured cooker and everything is about money and success? I pity my own children and of others that they have to live a stress life like that so much different from mine.

I never believe in self praise gahmen, highly paid leaders, poor leadership shown n always use history to portray the present and even future. As if they have godly powers to predict present and even future up to 30 years. Very powerful wizard.

FG

Dear TOC,

Fly a kite also banned? My vocab for all this is getting shorter, harder to express now than last year. Sometimes dont over censored lah!

Thanks anyway!

FG

I watch with great interest as Mr Tan Kin Lian steps forward with a political intention. I make no claims to representing any side – I suspend my judgment as to whether I would like to support, or not support, Mr Tan. I am more predisposed to observe and analyze the rhetoric which goes on around this issue.Allow me, then, to humbly share my observations:

1) A non-affirming intent: When Mr Tan speaks of his interest in running for political appointments, he emphasizes the link between his lack of ‘need’ and his ability to retire comfortably. It seems like Mr Tan, as one would expect in a technocratic state like Singapore, views political office as a means towards material wealth. I acknowledge and respect his opinion that he is not doing it for the money but it is interesting to see how he acknowledges the equation of political office leading to a high salary. I would have expected a person, who has an intent to run for an esteemed appointment, to transcend such views and instead focus on affirming his belief of wanting to represent the people, as is the function of political office in a democratic system. Nonetheless, there is a lack of an affirming tone in his rhetoric.

2) 30 Years in PAP: It would be interesting to note that Mr Tan has also been heavily involved in the PAP apparatus. In what capacities, I am unable to speak at length here but in a recent Straits Times interview(http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_305814.html), it was revealed that he had been a PAP member for 30 years before quitting earlier this year. 30 years is an extensive period to have held political views which Mr Tan now proclaims to reject. While the mini-bonds saga provides a platform for a change of view, I fail to see how somebody can go through 30 years of involvement without actually subscribing to the core belief system of the PAP. It was also noted that he quit because he was increasingly inactive and was increasingly disagreeable with the shift in the values of the PAP throughout the years. Unfortunately, to my knowledge, and possibly to the agreement of a few political observers, the values of the PAP has not changed from ‘people first’ to ‘pro-business’ throughout the years, as was implied by Mr Tan. The PAP government has always been a pro-business government. That is how we get the wealth we have today. Singapore is a classic developmental state run by a pro-business regime dominated by a single powerful party. One may argue that initiatives such as HDB are pro-people initiatives but looking back, the focus was on how to take care of our most valued ‘resource’ – people. We are,and have always been, viewed as a ‘resource’. These initiatives are minded on business sense and it is merely coincidental that they add some social value. There hasn’t been any shift in fundamental values since the inception of the PAP till today. Mr Tan’s perception of a shift is admirable, but questionable. The observable shift is on the PAP’s democratic authoritarian stance. Which brings me to the next point:

3)Co-opting Dissent: While many Singaporeans view the easing of regulations of speaking at Hong Lim as a step towards liberal democracy, few have made the connection, or spoke about what could be transpiring behind it. I don’t mean to be a conspiracy theorist, though it would be good to question everything we see and not simply accept mainstream, or ‘alternative-mainstream’ opinions. As I see it, ‘alternative-mainstream’ opinion views the opening up of Hong Lim as an plus point and, similar to the mainstream argument, views it as a step towards liberal expression. However, one has to question the intent and circumstances behind the government’s willingness to allow dissenting voices at Hong Lim. Was there really a shift to more liberal values, or is this, like many other initiatives, a calculated move? Co-opting dissent, which means accommodating opposing views but channeling it towards a restricted space, is a strategy for maintaining power. It is a 2nd-level strategy – one level up from simply putting down opposition through fear. It creates an illusion of having the ability to oppose, but in effect,nipping change at its bud. It allows the opposition to believe that they are being heard – allows for a pseudo-perception of liberalism. The reason why I comment at length about his is because I can’t help but link the mini-bonds saga, to the opening up of Hong Lim to the political intention of Mr Tan. I make no accusations, nor any claims, but would it be possible that Mr Tan’s political expression is yet another way of co-opting dissent that our dear leaders are using? 30 years making buddies in a party is a long time, isn’t it? Would it be possible that our leaders are not as ‘out-of-touch’ as we make them out to be? And don’t we have our opinions monitored? As I said, I do not make any claims or accusations. These are merely questions and questions are not statements. Question everything, never stop questioning.

QE (short),

Your long essay comes up two important striking points.

1) You doubt Mr Tan shift in position on future important matters when he is in this pap machinery for so damn long. You questioned his motive?

2) Whether more democracy will force gahmen to co exist and work out singapore ’s future together with the opp or it is just a show to trick all of us into believing change and you still hold to the idea that our leaders are still in touch with the poor?

Firstly, do you want a country or a corporation?

If you wanted a country, then there is an answer: Believe and Change it.

If a corporation, there is nothing to change you are in it already just keep the production line going.

I really believe Mr Tan will be a good opp leader and even if possible a good president. Did anyone believe Mr Ong T C a pap supoorter all his life became one of the best president for the people and become the first president without a state burial for all his good honest works for singapore all these years. Dont be a doubter! PAP wont want to be seen lousy in leadership and they are fighting fires everywhere this year alone, no time to bother with mini bond issues at all. Let alone come up such a brilliant plan to use Mr Tan as a double agent. I dont think anyone can stoop so low to be a double agent to smoke people.

Hong lim park is to me no different than hong lim park before it. Just less paper work and more freedom. If not for the mini bond cases, there wont be more than a hundred people there any day of the time. The PAP smart alecks thought opening up HLP is a good positive move, so that western press have nothing to say about freedom of expression. I think the authorities now must have regretted to make such a move. Probably PM Lee cursed himself for doing that 3G speech and boasting more freedom for singapore.

About the “Out of touch”

Only when people complained very hard, their cold heart turns warm slightly to pass the little help around to the needy. Growing at all cost has turn our gahmen into supervisors that runs the production line that churn out big GDP numbers which is very very important to them more than the workers in the line.
They think they know best, are the best and the best everything you can find. Is it the best? Look at the results this year, best? You be the judge.

because :

and this is merely my personal views, nothing more.

Political parties may or may not come and go, with time.
But the country and People are here to stay.

Political parties are Political parties, if you know the meaning.
They do their work related to politics.

They have members. Their members are chosen by their leaders. They have a duty towards their party.

We need to be neutral as the electorate.
We need to stay objective and unbiased as long as we are not members of any political parties.

Past performance is history but important.
We need to look forward.
We need to look at things from a National Interest point of view.
We need to know what the country now needs the most for it to PROGRESS.

Which party to support depends in a way on what kind of Progress we want or need the most now.

I have seen enough of the current levels of
Transparency,
Accountability,
Responsibility,
Democracy,
Service & Conservancy,
Complacency.

If my left bicep is weaker than my right one,
I will try to beef up the left bicep even though my right bicep looks better and is more competent because it is given the resources to develop. Now, its TIME I beef up the weaker side, to BALANCE the Body. This is the right way to go.
Else, the Ying does not Balance with the Right and leads to complacency.

I must hold myself Accountable to make the right decision. Must not wait for another 10000 years to deny my left bicep the chance to develop. Must develop now or it will be too late.

I feel I need to respond to Fever Guy, not because I enjoy the nature of debates that ensue in such comment ‘threads’(it’s not intended to be a forum thread I suppose), but because I would like to clarify some of my positions which he may have interpreted in a different light.

I don’t think, at the policy level, that the government is totally ‘in-touch’ with the people’s plight and suffering at the bottom of the pyramid. I don’t mean to say that they don’t have the knowledge that it is happening. I’m sure they know, more than you and me, what’s going on at the grassroots level, they know very well how much some Singaporeans are struggling – the state,afterall, is very ingrained in Singapore society. It’s power derives not simply from coercion, but also from its ability to monitor and observe. I doubt it has much deficiency in informational power. TOC is rather popular, I’m sure it serves as a source of information. So they are not ‘out-of-touch’ at the informational level, but perhaps ‘out-of-touch’ in the ‘emotional’ sense.

What I tried to offer in my previous comment was an alternative view, which seeks to transcend common prisms of understanding. It is easy to think that the government is ‘regretting’ the decision to open up Hong Lim due to the increase in dissenting opinions being expressed there, but that is like saying they have not rationally calculated what’s there to lose in such a policy. We have had bad policies,good policies, and we have had shrewd policies. Politics is not as simple as ‘give and take’, which many people perceive it to be. They may appear to ‘give’, when in fact, it was designed ultimately for them to ‘take’. People, including the Straits Times, cheer the freedom of expression in Hong Lim. I cheer for it,as well, but at the back of my mind, I wonder if we are the only ones cheering. I’m sure the officials are cheering too.

The late Mr Ong Teng Cheong was a people’s president. At the same time, he was not exactly a PAP hardliner. He was the only person in Singapore’s history to have sanctioned a worker’s strike. He was,very much, a rebel in the machinery. Some academics do believe that he was made the first elected president so that he could somehow be ‘relieved’ from significant legislative and executive positions. A reading of the constitution and the laws regarding the elected presidency would show that the president is pretty much a figure-head, a mere symbol. What effective opposition, besides to issues regarding our reserves, could a non-PAP president afford? But that is not my main point. What I have tried to say is that there is a possibility, judging from the historical patterns and tendencies, that what we are hearing now, of the possibility of a non-partisan president, is not exactly what it is. It could be a form of co-opted opposition. Reality is not as simple as its appearance.

2) jy on November 27th, 2008 9.18 am

Hello My Fellow-Singporean,

You said: “If you have the passion, with or without 100,000 petitioners, come what may, you still go ahead.”

Your statement shows you up to be politically infantile. Forgive my expression but I have to be forthright in this instance. However I can’t really blame you for your political naivety as you probably belong to the post 1960 generation who were cerebrally scrubbed clean of anything that smelt even remotely ‘political’. You grew up in a totally depoliticised Singapore. You don’t go into battle knowing too well you are going to be defeated, do you? Nobody fights to lose and so does Mr. Tan K L. This is my presumption given that Mr. Tan KL is a sensible person. The bull-dozing tactics of some of the pig-headed Opposition Leaders both in the past as well as those who are still around proved nothing to anyone. So now you understand the meaning of that 100,000 signatures? It’s intended to serve as a signal gesture that he should not be underestimated. And if we know the PAP, they are long enough in the game to know that anyone who can single-handedly garner anything up to 100,000 signatures to back him cannot be dismissed with wave of a hand.

I support TKL. He’s not a bad person, having done so much for those who made much losses under Lehman minibonds.

“all right, so you want to stop comparisons. then by whose standards shall we measure our society? you talk about transparency, responsibilities, accountabilities, using what doou talk about transparency, responsibilities, accountabilities, using wh you measure transparency? if there is no basis for comparisons, where do your standards come from?”

Mr EIRO,
when you start asking this question, it already show thatt you cannot even think properly and independently. You can only think in the way just our gov want you to think pragmatically and rationalizing the way our pathetic gov has been rationalizing the policy. You want to make a comparison, at least, make a fair comparison and not “selective” comparison just for the sake of proving your point. No one says you can’t make a comparison but If you can’t make a decent comparison then stop using comparison to prove your point.

Hi Rushking (#44)

I will ask for the next petition to have some of the particulars shown as optional. Thanks for your suggestion.

Hi Murf (#37)

40K usd monthly is more than sufficient, thank you.

“52) singaporedaddy on November 4th, 2008 6.16 pm

Hi whatever you are, you wrote: “But since I last checked up Donaldson is an Anglo-Saxon name and Ho CS is merely a common name that originates from China.”

Indeed ’singaporedaddy’, my name is a common Chinese name and not a ‘local, straits-born, culturally miscegenated’ label such as ’singaporedaddy’ connotes of. By the way, the label you hide behind also shows you up to be likely an anglophile, a devotee of everything white and western, and a cultural banana to boot.

Since the day I join this site I’ve been following what you have been writing, quite closely, and all you have shown yourself to be capable of is nit-picking, name-calling and parading your ‘imagined’ literary skill to no real purpose.

Incidentally are you also the one who has admitted to being a self-confessed blogger-supporter of the WP? You would have redeemed yourself somewhat if you had tried explaining to readers of this site what it was that Dr. Teo Ho Pin did wrong, or what the minibonds were about and why it was unwise of the TC’s to have invested in such bonds.

Perhaps the real reason is that those issues are beyond you and so you continued with your infantile linguistic ‘Tom foolery’ in your misguided attempt to play to the gallery. Please lah, ’singaporedaddy’, we are not an audience at a circus show and your deluded efforts at trying to impress your audience amounted to nothing more than an exercise in futility, sadly.

So don’t demean this site further with your unwelcome nonsense. If you don’t know what to do here perhaps I could suggest that you ask the honourable MP’s of the WP to say sth. meaningful at this site about the current financial crisis and their suggestions as to what could be done by the Govt. to help the people who have been badly affected by this unfortunate episode.

Indeed it has struck me that whilst there has been an avalanche of criticism aimed at the PAP, nobody has yet taken the Opposition MP’s in Parliament to task for having nothing to say to-date. This current crisis offers an excellent opportunity for the Opposition MP’s to show the People that if they were the Govt.of the day they would have had come up with the solution to the problem which till now appears to have eluded the Establishment as well as many other people. After all the elected Opposition MP’s have been paid a monthly remuneration of no less than $12,000+ for quite awhile. So they have equal responsibility as the Govt. of the day to share their ideas as to what could be done to help alleviate the severity of the financial maelstrom.

I’m sure it’s not because the elected Opposition MP’s are so small-minded as to deliberately keep quiet inorder to prove to the People the incompetence of the PAP to be the Government of the day. The real reason, I suspect, is that they do not know what the hell is going on. So since they are ignorant, then silence is bliss.

Good Morning #102 Ho Cheow Seng @ 3.46 am

How are you? You have brought up many points, but before we go further. I am sure you understand based on our previous encounters I need to ascertain (how shall I put it politiely mmmmmh) in possession of your faculties perhaps?

Sir, this is what you wrote:

“you (Singaporedaddy) also the one who has ADMITEED to being a self-CONFESSED blogger-supporter of the WP?”

Tell me Ho.C.S.

Could you please copy and paste where I once made such a “confession” online as you so mentioned – for the benefit of the rest of the readers in TOC, of course.

If you could all your problems will melt away like lemon drops; as I promise to go to a monastery in the mountains and never ever show my face in TOC again – surely the proposition is irresistable.

Come, come or worst still, sacré bleu have anyone here accusing you directly of confecting all sorts of unsubstantiated claims and lies which will throw doubt on your character and soundness of mind– you see Ho.C.S I have your good interest at heart, that is why I am trying my best to ensure your sterling reputation and credibility remains intact – that is why I am giving you every opportunity to avail yourself.

However please bear in mind Ho.C.S should you fail for ANY reason to produce this ONE and SINGLE “self confession” which you claimed I once publicly made online, then surely even you must concede why although I wish for nothing more than to consider you credible and worthy of serious engagement– surely even the most reasonable amongst us would have to bow their heads and say as Russians often do when they see curellean skies curling against the azure of the sea; “every river must give way to the sea.”

Go….. fetch and return and I promise to take up the rest of the issues you raised.

Good day sir (I must go for my 50Km cycling now)

SD (Internet Liaison officer of the brotherhood]

after the Mumbai blast – I feel that PAP will start the FEAR engine, just before the elections.

Wonder how many innocent familes will be destroyed by ISA just before the elections, just so that PAP can be on top.

Wonder if TOC will interview families of ISA detainees to get their viewpoints.

As each of us is entitled to our own free will, it is understandable that some among us are reluctant to help the investors in lehman minibond to recover their damages. But why are there views against those, in particular Tan Kin Liang, helping these investors? It is evident that a considerable number of investors had been misled into such transactions, amid their signing of those realms of fine prints in the contracts stating that they understand the risks, which they didn’t.

if they were to be faulted, it would be on their inclination to trust the words of the banks on the soundness of these structured financial products, via the Relationship managers, with whom they deal. And they can be further faulted for not being sophisticated enough to tape record the conversations with the RMs so as to present the recordng as evidence of misrepresentation.

And according to the government, hence they deserve their outcome because they trusted the banks.

I therefore feel strongly that anyone with any shred of sense of social justice ought to support Tan in his endeavour to help these mis-led investors. Even if one cannot do much to support Tan, one ought not to oppose his effort.

what is the motive behind opposing Tan helping the vicitims? Are we already degenerated into a society where we only want to see the strong get stronger at the expense of the less able ones?

人各有志，有人不支持雷曼苦主我们也不勉强。可是看到人家这么做还去反对，就太没有道理了。

从我的角度，我关注的是一个社会公义的问题。银行不能在坑了无辜的受害者以后，还躲在政治权力和御用律师的后面来逃避责任。

我还是那句话，任何一个有正义感的人都应该支持陈钦亮。就算不能，或者不敢公开支持，也不应该去反对吧?

看到有人为弱者打抱不平还生气和冷餐热讽，这是个什么心态？

#104 “Even if one cannot do much to support Tan, one ought not to oppose his effort.
What is the motive behind opposing Tan helping the vicitims? Are we already degenerated ”

They opposed because this is their mindset 以小人之心渡君子之腹

Where is the online petition? I want to sign up and support Mr Tan wholeheartedly.
He is one of the very few brave men in our society to dare to challenge the mighty PAP. He has all the disadvantages of having to contest on very unfair terms. He is risking all his earthly possessions. Yet he has risen above this very unlevel playing field to bring about true democracy.
For this and many more reasons I salute you Mr Tan. Please let me know how I can sign the petition. My first hope is that you can bring about a reduction of the outrageous salaries which the ministers are paying themselves to more mortal levels.

29/11/08

Hi Tan Kin Lian

I am not wrong when I first wrote that you have have hideen agenda and I just read your Q & A and you are keeping your options open and you are a very shrewd man. I am Andrew Chuah and I have been writing on my real name since 2001and I don’t hide under other fictious names.

Regards
Andrew Chuah

In other countries, i am sure
HEADS would have ROLLED.

i mean for the mini bon bon thingie

Mr Tan, I guess you might have missed this question in another thread. Hence I am posting the questions here.

I am keen to sign the petition but would appreciate your response to three questions:

1) Which PAP constituency were you serving in for the past 30 years? Just marine parade?
2) Did you hold any appointments such as CCC chairman?
3) Were you ever invited to the party’s ‘tea-session’?

Thanks.

“The question which I would like to pose to you on behalf of all my friends and colleagues is what is your position towards online anonymity. The reason why I am asking this question is, I strongly believe this is a very important point that many citizens consider worth protecting i.e their right to privacy.”

Do you for a moment know the implication or absurdity of what you are puking up here? Whilst you take safety under cover of your ‘right to privacy’, you seem blissfully ‘thoughtless’ of others’s claim to the same right. If you insist on being anonymous under the pretext of your ‘right to privacy’, then you have no right to attack publicly someone who openly reveals his identity. Hey man, you are behaving like a ‘bandit’ here, dupe. You shoot at your target(s) under cover of darkness, and, also in the name of Freedom and Rights which many on this site equate with Democracy. In a real Democracy, the real ‘democrats’ will hunting you down. Please, please, you’d better go play marbles or ‘fly a kite’, or ‘climb a tree’. You’d better heed my advice and not get painfully hurt and find yourself in a situation like what they say in Hokkien: “Eh kow tio pung teng”. [The mute who got stung by a bee and is in great pain but unable to tell others what had happened so that they could give him the necessary help].

102) singaporedaddy on November 29th, 2008 7.34 am

Sir, this is what you wrote:

“you (Singaporedaddy) also the one who has ADMITEED to being a self-CONFESSED blogger-supporter of the WP?”

No Sir, I beg to differ. YOU wrote the ‘edited’ excerpt within quotation marks above. AND I WROTE the following. (It’s on this same site):

“Incidentally are you also the one who has admitted to being a self-confessed blogger-supporter of the WP?”

So you left out TWO very critical words. I’d like to believe that you left them out unwittingly or on account of an oversight on your part. If this were not the case, then I’d leave it to the imagination of fair-minded readers of this site to decide on an appropriate term to describe your character.

I firmly believe in Singapore, there are more than 1000 who qualify to serve the people as MPs. Note that qualify to serve need not just mean paper qualification.
We need people like our late Mr Ong.

I am hoping that these 1000 will start to step forward and stand inline with Mr TKL. Can the media cover 1000 ? May catch them off guard!

surprise!

Its onces every 5 years or so. How long more should we wait?

My thinking:

It’s normal for human being to have hideen agenda.

Change, asian do not like this word. This word come to their mind only fire burn their ass.

TK

Good afternoon Ho Cheow Seng @ # 113 @ 2.46 pm

Tsk, tsk, tsk…..temper, temper. You seem like you could do with a Kit Kat. You need a break.

Are you ready now Ho.C.S?

Once again please this time from the very top. Allow me to reiterate the question that I posed to you in # 102 which arose from your statement in #103.

“CAN YOU PLEASE SHOW US ALL THE POST, THREAD OR COMMENT WHERE I (SINGAPOREDADDY) ‘ADMITTED’ TO BEING A SELF CONFESSED BLOGGER SUPPORTER OF THE WP?”

I wrote in plain and simple English; any simpler and we would all be using ESP – Ho.C.S can you or can you not produce what you claimed, I once wrote so prosaically and even commented extensively on #102?

It’s very simple. You can ask anyone here in TOC, it cant get any simpler than dat; it’s a bit like getting pregnant; either you are positive or negative; there is no middle ground, no grey area, no contention of debate – so again will you kindly Ho.C.S produce it all for us to see how I once “admitted” to be being a self confessed supporter of WP?

Come, come…Ho.C.S…you keep making wild accusations, that I snipe at you etc etc etc. BUT when I give you one opportunity for you to avail yourself as a man who doesnt misrepresent the truth, why dont you just show us all how we should all rightfully blog?…take a few deep breathes….take a stress pill….no need to get flustered; no need to call me names; I understand; really I do; only perhaps you should know the first rule of war; you have to keep your cool; its no good if you running around like a headless chicken…do you understand….surely you don’t expect me to ask you for the third time now….do you?

Like I said, its a very simple question and really I dont see what is so complicated about it.

SD (Internet Liaison officer of the brotherhood)

My reply is in 116 Ho.C.S…, it will come out once it works its way through the spam filter / just you wait and see / be cool, you need to take a stress pill man.

“100,000 signatures so more people will step forward” – stepping forward is a bit like Guillaume Apollinaire stanza, where it begins roughly with the words

“Come to the edge, ” he said.

They said: “We are afraid.”

“Come to the edge,” he said.

They came. He pushed them and they flew.

It’s good and noble and should be encouraged.

SD (Internet Liaison officer of the brotherhood)

P.S Dear readers my profuse apologise for messing up this thread. I want you to know, that’s never my intention, but I was attacked and I feel that I have a right to set the record straight – once again, I am so sorry

My fellow netizens,

I don’t know abt you; but the whole idea of “change” is so big. Even I find it difficult to wrap my head around it.

How do you eat an elephant? Cut it into tiny pieces and munch on it throughout the year. That’s much better than trying to gobble it down in one go – but to do that you need to give yourself TIME.

Take this whole idea of “change” for instance that Mr Tan is driving – will it produce good? I have absolutely no idea. To be honest with you, I need TIME to work it through and I am not going to mince my words here; that’s just the way the world stacks up; and if it’s slow then its slow, but I will not be rushed, besides there is whole lot of living that needs to compete with this whole idea of “change” and life doesnt revolve around the internet, that maybe just 2% of my life– I need to figure out for instance what I am going to do with my life once I get retrenched this Xmas; what kind of disguise I am going to use to try to siam the local Ah Long; where to hide my wheels with the repoman.

You see I have a simple Forest Gump strategy when it comes to signing ANY thing; I never sign anything that I am NOT comfortable with – As I said, I need TIME, more the better. The way I see it no one can pressure me; if they say; if I don’t sign by this date then I am not going to get that bunny mug; then so be it; I’ve do without; that’s way I figure it; it takesTIME to understand things for what they really are; one needs to start from the edges work your way to the center; then stand back and take the whole sweep of the picture; if it feels good then go for it; if not put it all in a box and slide it underneath the bed; and when you’re ready go back to it all again.

But to do ALL that you need to give yourself time; and like I said, I don’t see the rush; Otherwise its no good – it just doesn’t come around – and you wouldn’t even know the first thing about what you’re buying into; or even what’s to be changed? What will it replace? Who will drive it? What will it produce?

That takes time my friends, but remember, the truth may not even come out in one sitting; that doesn’t mean you’re dumb; it just means you’re working through the whole idea of change in your head.

So take your TIME.

My fellow netizens may I wish you all good memories for this exciting new time in your life – we are certainly living in interesting times.

SD (Internet Liaison officer of the brotherhood)

PS: Once again I so sorry abt this Ho.C.S thing; no buts no conditions and I just hope I didnt muck up your surfing experience.

116) singaporedaddy on Your comment is awaiting moderation
Good afternoo @ # 113 @ 2.46 pm
Tsk, tsk, tsk…..temper, temper. You seem like you could do with a Kit Kat. You need a break.
Are you ready now Ho.C.S?
Once again please this time from the very top. Allow me to reiterate the question that I posed to you in # 102 which arose from your statement in #103.
Can you pls show us ALL the post where I singaporedaddy “admitted” as you said to being a self confessed blogger supporter of the WP?
I wrote in plain and simple English; any simpler and we would all be using ESP – Ho.C.S can you or can you not produce what you claimed, I once wrote so prosaically and even commented extensively on #102?
It’s very simple. You can ask anyone here in TOC, it cant get any simpler than dat; it’s a bit like getting pregnant; either you are positive or negative; there is no middle ground, no grey area, no contention of debate – so again will you kindly Ho.C.S produce it all for us to see how I once “admitted” to be being a self confessed supporter of WP?
Come, come…Ho.C.S…you keep making wild accusations, that I snipe at you etc etc etc. BUT when I give you one opportunity for you to avail yourself as a man who doesnt misrepresent the truth, why dont you just show us all how we should all rightfully blog?…take a few deep breathes….take a stress pill….no need to get flustered; no need to call me names; I understand; really I do; only perhaps you should know the first rule of war; you have to keep your cool; its no good if you running around like a headless chicken…do you understand….surely you don’t expect me to ask you for the third time now….do you?
Like I said, its a very simple question and really I dont see what is so complicated about it.
SD (Internet Liaison officer of the brotherhood)
Auto resend by blackberry 888930032-AB acc 98723649 Failed send 48

29./11/08

Hi SingaporeDaddy *117-We don’t change things ie first dismantling and then putting up new things in Singapore (I doubt in USA the in coming Presdient Obama will be able to dismantle everything Presdient Bush has installed and replace them with those promises he made during his election campaign-now he has realises this “tak boleh” and “that tak boleh”).

In Singapore, we must only fine tune those PAP policies and institutions which have gone astrayed and once these have been fiine tuned, we can see that Singapore can be a better place for all of us. I doubt Tan Kin Lian is able to carry out his changes should he wins the Elected President election (this position is merely a ceremonial position). Tan was with NTUC Income till he retired and was with the PAP CC and I doubt he is able to completely erased all these years of influences (when I first posted my article on him heling those 10,000 bond holoders,mainly Uncles and Aunties and I replied that this was defamatory-PAP style, I was just giving my two cents worth and my own fare share of expeirences in dealing with those Singapore banks.Look at Anwar Ibrahim,he was unable to bring ‘Reformasi” to Malaysia and in PKR’s Congress today, he faied to offer any explanation and stayed mum over Sept16 plan to topple the BN government in Malaysia.

Regards
Andrew Chuah

29/11/08

Hi SingaporDaddy-Correction to my posting *119-should be he replied that this was defamatory.

Regards
Andrew Chuah

“Andrew Chuah on November 29th, 2008 7.38 pm
In Singapore, we must only fine tune those PAP policies and institutions which have gone astrayed.”

Which group of people are you referring to when you mentioned “we”. Maybe let me rephrase the question, which group of people should be leading the fine tuning process.

Dear Mr Tan

I have been following the “MiniBond” saga for the past few weeks. The response by MAS to your petition is “ridiculous”.

They are not taking your letter and effort “seriously”

If the relevant authorities have been helpful in the first place, the public would not have needed to seek your advice and assistance for so many weeks.

It is very brave and admirable for you to stand up for the poor victims who would have been helpless and clueless on what they should do.

I am very sure your active involvement in this matter has forced the auhorities to become more sympathatic towards the “innocent victims” who have beed misled into placing their life savings in prducts which are not 100% safe.

Also through this saga, you can see for yourself how “unhuman” or “robotic” the current government has become ! Perhaps too complacent to the extend that a petition written by ex CEO of NTUC income together with 2300 signatures can just be so easily brushed aside. My gut feel is that if the same petition has been written by Dr Lee Wei Ling, sister of the PM, the response would be different.

Somehow for whatever reason, the current government seem to have regarded you as an outsider and just no different from any ordinary citizen. This is not right taking into consideration your experience in the finance/insurance industry and how you have successfully transformed a 18 million company into a 28 billion one !!!

Perhaps you would consider running for President when the next election comes along. Singapore needs a variety of talents and voices from different sectors. A monopolised system as in the current case is definitely far from healthy for Singapore in the long run.

I would also like to take this oportunity to thank you for taking the time and effort to render assistance to the “clueless victims” If not for you, I really don’t know who would step forward to speak on behalf of the silent masses !!!

Cheers

Gary

119) singaporedaddy on November 29th, 2008 7.36 pm

Did you miss reading #Comment 113? I thought you wrote very well, based on the few ‘commentaries’ posted by you on this site, and so should have no problem understanding the simple English I’ve employed on this occasion.

Take note that whilst you talk in terms of ‘brotherhood’, my generation talk in terms of “huay Kuan”, “kong huay”, “tiong p!hai, tor p!hai, cheah p!hai”, and ” chor li lai!!”. I hope you know where I’m coming from.

As the Bard has said, a man is what his character has made of him. And “Tragedy in Shakespeare is character issuing in action” according to the great Shakespearean critic A.C, Bradley.

So attributes like arrogance, brow-beating, peddling snake-oil, ill-will, cynicism, being a show-off and ‘over-vaulting’ confidence are the kinds of flaw in an individual that are deemed ‘fatal’ and which ineluctably lead to an individual’s self-destruction. This is Bradley’s interpretation of the Bard’s great tragic plays. And to me Bradley’s interpretation is very discerning as it seems to be borne out by Life’s experiences.

So let’s be humble enough to accord one another the basic courtesy expected of a decent human being instead of taking the moral high ground only to brow-beat and denigrate others. I will not say too much for the time being. I will reciprocate accordingly. I follow a very simple precept: a gentleman should be treated as such while ‘a bully’ or ‘a sham’ must be exposed for what he is. So Good-day to you, singaporedaddy.

ho c s,

alright, “So let’s be humble enough to accord one another the basic courtesy expected of a decent human being.” We will speak no more abt it. I am here to broaden my brain, not to prove a point, so let leave it at that – this is good – we can build on this.

To Andrew,

Hows it hanging? I’ve read some of your comments and you’re one of those who usually writes very insightful stuff. Well spotted agreed with what you said abt obama. As for Mr Tan, I am reserving comment, as I said, lets give him time.

This question has always trouble me, “In Singapore, we must only fine tune those PAP policies and institutions which have gone astrayed.”

Bc if you really think hard about it, the whole idea of “change” is given, it’s really a non issue.

So the real question MUST turns on only WHAT will be catalyst that will drive and sustain change; and here you really need to understand that every oligarchy and it doesn’t matter whether it’s a 100+ yr firm like Lehman or an exotic species of birds living in some remote island in the Pacific has a built in mechanism of self destruction; if its not constantly under threat, regularly challenged or if there are even safety nets everything just corrodes and decays; that’s why Malaysia is so screwy; they boast to the world that they can produce automobiles, but what they don’t tell you is; they’re still passing off 30 year designs as the new in thing; result: it’s no good – it doesn’t go around. Proton sells only in Malaysia (period) – it cannot compete like Toyota or BMW globally – and why bc for so many years the playing field was weighted in their favor; levies were imposed on imported cars, they relied on political patronage etc. So with time is it such a wonder they became so riven with inefficiencies and backwardness that they’re not even in the league table.

You see Andrew, after a prolonged period of zero competition; EVERY oligarchy will begin to fossilized that’s really the detonator that sets the mechanism of self destruction ticking and they may even begin ritualizing how they see the world and react to it and in no time they’re in a dead end; that’s why a bunch of jungle book kids with AK-47’s could kill so many people in the Oberai hotel in Mumbai; I mean if those dummies pulled exactly the same stunt in lets say King David hotel in Jerusalem; I guarantee you in 20 sec flat all of them will be hanging on the wall in the grande lobby like those shrunken heads exhibits in the P-65 blog. Because even a chamber maid could probably snuff them out with tissue paper or a tampon; she’s probably an ex Charlie Angel Mossad trained assassin – and why that? Because peace is never ever taken for granted in the state of Israel – the Jews are always in a competitive race for survival. Result: skill-at-arms improves; it’s constantly replenished and nourished to meet the new security challenges.

My feel is this is the ONLY way to drive change that consistently produces good for the country and people Andrew – is by stressing the system and if possible forcing it to operate in a discomfort zone – and that simply means buying into the whole idea of healthy competition.

The power of one is no good – it just doesn’t come around.

That’s why whenever, I see in board of directors meetings people cliquing together to form mutual appreciation clubs; and giving themselves creamy bonuses or trying to convince others they’re the masters of the universe or some anointed dream team; that really scares the living day lights out of me; bc usually 9 out 10 that’s the surest indication; the end is very near; the next act is going to be the curtain call – it’s time to smile and serious think about an escape plan – In summary, the power of one can never be a reliable producer of good – its no good.

SD

I had approached a few people on this 100,000 signatures for their opinions and supports. They wanted to know the circumstances why TKL leaves NTUC Income as he had nursed this Company for 30 yrs. This is sad and the feelings are same for anyone working in a Company for so long. If TKL aspired to take up public office, I am sure many people want him to tell the true reasons on why he left the NTUC insurance Company. As a feedback, they wanted to know what made him so hardened to crawl explanations, extract arguments and challenges with the new NTUC Management as some of these people are also his former colleagues groomed by him. I can only say that I did not know beyond what was published in ST and in his blog. He may be doing a public service by pointing out the shortcomings and unfairness. This is called integrity and, a strong fighting spirit to seek the truth.

I dont want to speculate too much abt TKL. He may or may not be the ideal candidate for EP or MP, but from what I can see he may still be an unknown quantity to many here in blogoland.

It takes time for a relationship to build up. ppl have to get to know him and he too is on a learning curve as well, from what I am able to make out.

Give him time and I am sure at the end of it, it will serve the interest of all concerned.

The important thing is it has started. Many MP’s have not even begun yet. They are very far off the curve.

Gosh Oscar Choy
You have started to dig on TKL’ s past even before the PAP does so. The PAP must be very grateful to you for beating them to it in doing their job.
Why must you insist on knowing the past of any would-be opposition candidate, when you don’t even know the present of our PAP masters. For example, do you know what is the asset of any of our present leaders? How many houses and cars does each of them own? Where do the ministers keep all their astronomical salaries?

Well, I don’t know anything about TKL’s past, and I don’t expect it to be perfect. However, regardless of his past, I am grateful that TKL is brave enough to come forward to bring about a more equal and just society. Regardless of his past I only hope that he will do good for society in his future. Regardless of his past I pray that he will stand up to help the poor and needy. Regardless of his past he needs and deserve our strongest support because he is going to fight a most unlevel playing field against all obstacles and with virtually no resources compared with the mighty PAP. For this reason I am willing to contribute whatever I can afford to help him. I hope you too will do the same.

less of his past, TKL is now I don’t

Just one more question, if you dont mind, recently Dr Tan Wu Meng said one party is the way to go, or something to that effect.

He ended it with the words,

“To those who call for more diversity, I invite you to come talk with us, to join us in our community work and to see what we do. We may surprise your scepticism, even as we find common cause in our aspirations for a better Singapore.

Dr Tan Wu Meng
Organising Secretary
Young PAP”

just asking, why not work with them singaporedadi? Makes sense to me, no? I mean from what I see TKL hopes to do the same. Isnt that a better way to make progress than to talk from the outside?

I mean even if you are the smartest person in the world and you are just talking to yourself in the basement, what use is it.

thx,

How are you labrat?

How’s the teeth business? Allow me to speak candidly. A few weeks ago, I and a few of my cycling buddies; decided to pop into the PAP shop and take an application form; we were curious; but after we read what Tan WM wrote; we made a few paper aeroplanes and that was that.

So u can draw what you want.

As for Tan KL, this is what I will say; at his age, he has shown a remarkable capacity to effect personal change; he is a retiree, but despite this he has taken to the internet like a fish to water; this again is exceptional. As even Tan WM cannot do 1% of what Tan KL has demonstrated he can do. He has also demonstrated plenty of resolve and leadership by projecting into the real world as we have all seen in HLP – but let us not mythologize him, he is not the Dalai Lama, Martin Luther King or Nelson Mandela allrolled up into one, he is Tan KL and as I said, he should give himself and others time to get to know him better.

I see a very bright future, if he plays his cards right.

But here we should also be sportsman; because if we say there is no level playing out there and the rules are rigged for the house to win all the time; then where is the wisdom if we recreate that same setting online? Do you see my point?

So we should not snipe at Tan KL or just keep on 鸡蛋里挑骨头 – that to me is not sportsmanship and we will never support it. If we see it, we our response will be swift, terse and sharp, that is all I can say as the Liaison rep.

Give the man a fair run; if you genuinely want to find out more about him or his call for change; then ask him; you can be robust and even earnest, but why find fault with him? Do so in the spirit of sportsmanship and with a clean heart; then it could be said; you are part of a community who once built a better machine of doing things online and that will always fair well to attract more smart and capable people.

SD

anybody knows where to sign the petition the url is so hard to find, maybe that’s why so few people are signing up.

Hi justkaypoh,

The petition can be found at the following link:

http://www.petitiononline.com/TKLFPO1/petition.html

Please encourage your family, friends and colleagues to sign up as well too if they with to support Mr Tan!

I suggest that another way to get that 100,000 signatures is to be ambivalent. To appeal to the masses, it may be best to promise to give away 20% to 35% of the Office of the President pay every month to be shared amongst all registered charities in Singapore. This way many people will not say that someone aspires to that Office for the moneys, mind you $3M+ a year is no small quarter. The President is to serve and look after the interests of all Singaporeans especially the weak and the disadvantaged besides the usual duties. To cast an example and display a good heart and be more down to earth, the next President we look for must set some precedence which makes difference to the lives of the people he protects and loves. What other altruisms we are looking for the next President should have? Let us give all the TOC “bongo” and “wanaba” people have a piece for consideration.

I’m writing this because I read in the ST today that only 600 signatures so far (before yesterday) had been collected in the 3 weeks the petition had been put up. It is indeed a very slow take-up rate and is expected to slow down even more as general interest about the issue wanes and fatique sets in.

Even if the rate is constant, a simple calculation will tell us that it will take no less than 9.6 years to reach 100,000 signatures!

From being someone who had earlier questioned his credentials to be in politics, I have now changed my mind and have promised him to be more positive towards his future plans.

It’s not that I have suddenly learnt a lot about him in the space of 5 days, but it now appears that his intention to contest in elections is a serious one. Perhaps, he has some self-doubts, and he needs some proof that there are indeed large numbers of people who wish to see his political participation.

I still think having this 100,000 signature petition is a bad idea for several reasons, not the least of which is that it is not going to be a successful petition. Nonetheless, I would like to reassure him that if the petition is only to find out how many people want him to run (not how many people will support him or vote for him), then it is a no-brainer to assume that at least 66.66% would want him to run. It would not surprise us if even the PAP leadership says tomorrow that they welcome him to join the fray.

So, I hope Mr Tan Kin Lian will not waste too much time on this petition, but put more time and energy into the necessary preparatory work for his polititcal debut.

[...] 陈钦亮专栏(为什么需要10万个签名支持更多人挺身而出?) [...]

I had every intention to sign, but when I went to the website at

http://www.petitiononline.com/TKLFPO1/petition.html

the way it is framed makes it very uninviting. It is merely a one-liner asking people to sign up without any reason or introduction of TKL. Someone who has not been following TKL’s recent effort would be wondering who is this unknown man seeking office.

In fact the info that I am required to give of myself is even longer than the petition statement itself. On a score of 1-10 for the petition writer I think I would give no more than 1.5.
I was asked to click on view signatures, but nothing of the sort appears and the only info that I see is the number of people who has signed up, currently standing at 614. Such a number can easily be faked if we don’t even know who signed up, including your ownself.
Once I sign up I would not even be able to see my own signature or what information I have written in or when I did the signing it.

You should compare this petition with the petition put forward against ex-NKF chief TT Durai. There was so much more comforting info and people feel good to join the thousands who signed up.
I really wish that the petition writer can put in more effort to tell us more about the
reasons and the signatories.
Mr Tan K L has already done much good in helping the misguided minibond investors, and surely he deserves some kind of introduction in the petition itself.

Further to my last comment, I should also add that the petition writer should at least put up some effort to publicise the petition website. Out of 50 people I have asked about the petition only 2 persons could direct me to its website. Most people don’t even know that it existed.
So, if we don’t get many signatories the failure is due to the inadequate interest of the petition writer, and not at all due to the general lack of support of Mr TKL.
I belong to the old school of thought that if you want to do something at all you must put up the best effort to do it well. Otherwise don’t even start it at all, so that other more capable people can take over and do a better job.

My friends, lend me your ears, if you will………

It is not the clamor the 600, but the silence the 99,600 who choose as their voice that is truly deafening; in brotherhood parlance we call this the “arh-fu” – no one knows exactly where this word originates from; some say our troops in the Northern territories developed this word during the Ascension wars when they once fought a prolonged and debilitating war against the Aryanians very much in the way American GI’s once coined new words such as fubar and snafu to capture the pathos and askance of their times. I once served as pro-consul in those territories, so I should know………I understand my friends.

Be patient my little friends – the day will come. Trust me. It will come.

Do not be surprised, if the cup is filled to the broth within the span of time it takes for one to blink, my money is still very much with Mr Tan KL, you see, I have seen many things and one of them is this.

“To see a world in a grain of sand
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand
And eternity in an hour.”

I wish you all well.

SD (Internet Liaison officer of the brotherhood)

I would like to ask Mr Tan if you would do something for the education system in Singapore if you should go into politics.

The shocking news of the death of ACS boy over the change of CCA; the horrors of reading about top PSLE students and their study habits, plus the many disgruntled parents whose children keep hearing – you are not good enough – either academically or for the CCA they wish to take part in – these are only some reasons for asking for a serious change in our pursuit of grades at the expense of character development and education for interests and education’s sake.

This government is bent on stressing our kids and putting in a system of telling them they are no good until they are miserable and school becomes a series of tests and exams, only to be told again at the end of all that meaningless testing that they are no good, not good enough. This is not the way to go at all. I worked in an international school system for many years and seen students love school, love learning, love their sports. And they really know how to play, improvise and have fun. Their education makes them better people, engaged in society and warm individuals.

Will you do something to change the horrible education system here? If you say you will, you have my signature, and if you get into politics, my vote.

Andrew I was very specific. As I mentioned it was comment 82 and 119. I personally dont know how Singaporedaddy feels abt it, but its just my opinion that its very strange dont you think so Andrew that the same thing should have happened as well when he was having a heated debate with Ho cheow seng.

Dont you think that is coincidental? What is the chances of lightning striking the same spot?

I was really thinking of writing for toc, but after this. I want to watch and see what happens a bit longer if you dont mind.

If it can happen to such a public figure like a diplomatic representative of the brotherhood, then who is safe Andrew?

Another thing. i really believe toc should put an end to singaporedaddy’s poetry. It is driving me crazy, as I can to make head and tail out of it.

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