But I cannot answer you. None of my posts longer than a lizard’s tail will get through due to moderation.

58) panter92
A GRC is not mega or giga or whatever. Let me ask you this. What’s the difference between contesting in one GRC with 6 members and 6 SMCs? You still put up 6 candidates right? So the cost factor has been overriden. The only issue now will be the percentage chance in which the opposition will emerge victorious. From different points of view, the chances can be extremely high or low. It depends on how you look at it and how you strategise to exploit the weaknesses of the system.

Whatever name one wishes to give to the GRC system, it does not change the fact that it was introduced as a political weapon for the PAP to use against the opposition. On it’s own, the GRC system can backfire and, like a double-edged sword, it can cut the person wielding it. To prevent this, the PAP was able to limit the damages to itself by introducing other measures that ensured their own safety at the expense of the opposition. Politically, this is not wrong because it can only be expected that a political party looks after its own welfare. However, is this the right thing to do, socially? In their quest to ensure their continued rule by demolishing the opposition, it has inadvertently harmed the people by making them a nation of people who become like (in your own word) ‘zombies’; fully dependent on the PAP govt and for it to dictate every facet of their lives. This is the most worrisome legacy this PAP govt is going to leave behind.

Your suggestion that the GRC system is not much different to SMC system in that the number of candidates still remains the same and therefore the percentage of voters voting the way they would vote anyway would ensure that the same result would surface. This reasoning is in my opinion flawed. In a GRC showdown, the collectively larger percentage of votes garnered by a political party ensures that it wins the GRC comprising up to six constituencies. Let’s supposed the winning percentage is a close one; say; 55% to 45%. Winner takes all.

In a SMC showdown, the distribution of these percentages is not as straightforward as 55% to 45%. You might have constituency A going to the PAP at 65% to 35%, and then constituency B going to the opposition at 52% to 48%. The percentages for the rest of the other four constituencies will also differ greatly. Let’s just assume that the PAP is still too strong for the opposition and by and large they go on to win 5 of the 6 constituencies contested as SMCs and the same pattern is shown up islandwide, what do you think would be the parliamentary landscape? Yes; there will be more than a dozen opposition MPs rightfully representing the electorate which the GRC systems negates.

So you see, going by your logic that the larger percentage would vote for the PAP and therefore the GRC system is no different to an SMC system is flawed. You have to take into account the distribution of votes percentages in each of each single constituency ward. This is the reason why the PAP could use the GRC system to its full effect by re-drawing boundary lines to an unimaginable proportion where you are now seeing Marine Parade GRC eating into Ang Mo Kio space; and; AMK eating into Yishun at the last GE to win back the lost sheep of Yishun South SMC.

53) 55) 58) panter92
I read what one of you said about how LKY should NOT die yet because Singapore would face plenty of troubles. You’re right.

Your LKY issue. It has to be discussed at length. He’s inevitable death will create much strife. And I’m afraid for Singapore’s future. Anyone who monitors politics or domestic issues and thinks at the same time would know.
2. LKY still holds much influence over policies and party members despite his stepping down in 1990. What do you think his sudden death will bring?
3. LKY is currently the face of Singapore in many countries and the reason why they hold Singapore in respect. When he visited Taiwan, mainland China made no noise. But when his son visited, there was a huge issue. What do you think will happen to Singapore internationally?

This is a very interesting notion. I thought the older generation would feel this way and it really comes as a surprise that the young generation also feels the same. Having said that, I think you have given too much credit to LKY than he could hold himself. Twenty or thirty years ago, I would have agreed with you without a fight. But not now. He is already so advanced in years and the element of a sudden death holds no water in terms of argument. Agreed, there might be some rumblings for a day or two but things will return to normalcy in no time.

This portion may sound contradictory to the preceding paragraph but in essence, it refers to the reaction of the people after LKY’s death. The bigger fear would be for us, the citizens. What can we hope to see in the new PAP govt without LKY? Will it deviate and alienate itself away from the people more than it already has? At which point will the Singaporean citizen be broken into reaction. What happens when the people reacts in ways never seen before in this generation? These are the fears attributed to LKY’s governance. And this will be the repercussions of LKY’s death which is the sudden release of the fears they have held so dearly within themselves. Will this be good for Singapore? The answer is yes and no. Yes, if we have an alternative govt. No, if we do not have one. This is why we have to help establish one in the short time we have left so that Singapore might not suffer too much.

Without being seen as one wishing ill on another, I must say that LKY’s death will be a sort of deliverence for the Singapore people and it cannot come more urgently than any time soon. Singaporeans need to be delivered from their fears.

91) 163) panter92
Anyway, I started browsing TOC because there is moderation in place and it’s a political site on domestic issues.
Your comment is awaiting moderation. November 25th, 2008 12.16 pm. What’s that?

You came knowing and embracing the moderation of TOC but you began to question the moderation when you were moderated. Just to let you know.

MM Lee once said that he does not regret the path he took. The path which neglected cultural developments in the quest for Singapore to become a modern city. Now, because of what he did (and I’m not saying he’s wrong because at that time..), the repurcussions are beginning to show. Youths have basically no sense of belonging to this country. Our education system is dead, producing zombies who have no mind of their own.

Our government is trying to encourage entrepreuneurship, creativeness and innovation, but with everything that is obstructing, it is near impossible. The ‘creative’ environment is simply absent.

Our ex-president Ong Teng Cheong, my idol, attempted to create a common identity for Singaporeans. He organised huge events, created the President’s Star Charity, was the advocator for the building of Esplanade, etc. But for all these? What did he get? He was accused of spending too much

Do you still believe that one can work from within the PAP to bring about change? Do you think the one-party system of governance is the ideal Singapore political model to adopt or create? Even with young, intelligent and actively involved youngster like yourself, you found no place in the PAP forums. It is a well known fact that OTC, being a PAP stalwart during his time, could not effect any change even with his clout, what makes you think any one of us here could take up the PM’s offer to “come join the PAP” and effect changes from within the party?

I am sure you must have experienced this yourself when your innovative and out-of-the-box thinking found no place with the PAP youths or whatever they may call themselves. These are self-serving groups and you will have no place if your voice is different from theirs. What more if we are the more radical ones. We will be place on the next flight out to outer-space. The PM’s call is nothing but pure rhetorics that make the PAP party look good by sounding seemingly warm and welcoming. Nothing is further from the truth.

Culture can be created in many ways. There is political culture, social culture, even economic culture. Anything that is widely accepted by all is a cultural identity. The Singapore brand?

Do you not think that the Singapore brand is none other than ‘PAP’? Is this good or bad? A party bigger than the country?

So, to sum it all up, the current Singapore is but a concrete jungle in a cultural desert. I’m still waiting for someone to come up and become a second Ong TC and I hope it won’t be Elfred the pretender from YP.

I recently argued this issue with Elfred in YPAP. He cannot understand. He sees little in Singaporeans. A joke.. .

Like I said, if you are hoping for your new OTC to come from within the PAP, I would just simply say “FAT HOPE”. OTC was being made a scapegoat and I am afraid not many will dare thread where the devil dare not even dare to go.

However you can take heart that when the rumbling starts, your hopes become alive again. Patience is a virtue. Many of the older folks here have been overly patient in their lifetimes and you could do well to exercise some of it because you have lots of years ahead of you. The rumblings have started. Some of us might not get to see the change we have been hoping for but we can die knowing that we have played a part in advancing it for a better Singapore for the future generations.

Do you still believe that one can work from within the PAP to bring about change?

122) panter92
Singapiore’s growth in the past is not simply due to our Old Guards, but also the international environment. China and India were not yet. Cold War competition was heating up and everything, creating a favourable climate. .

If only more Singaporeans could see this as clearly as you have stated here. We have been giving this PAP govt too much credit for our own good. They have begun to believe they are THAT good and that is why they have been awarding themselves handsomely all these years. How long more are we going to give them undue credits and begin to take some for ourselves?

116) Andrew Chuah
Let me point out to you, whether in Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand or USA,all political leaders are dispensable and they come and go

This is democracy, where the only people that are indispensable are the citizens.

thank You very much for the information.

I am the only one in the family educated(not really accurate in many ways) in an ‘English’ School in the 50s. One younger sibling and three elder ones attended ‘Chinese’ Primary Schools of which there were about 7 of them within 3 to 4 kilometres of my home in a village in the East.

The claim that the English Language was the ‘International/Global’ and ‘Business/Mercantile’ Lingo and one that will allow us (Singaporeans) to be more able to link and do businesses with the international communities was strongly propounded. On top of the very fact that the British then was our Colonial Master for over a century and with some of our top local leaders been truly English educated in UK and having problems with their Local Chinese educated compatriots mostly from Nantah University and Chong Cheng High School. Many of us then knew the impending fates of Chinese Schools, especially those of higher learnings. China then been an influential communist regime added much intricacy into the local political ‘struggles’, making the Issue of Language then into a very complex and vital element.

My mother insisted that I ‘must’ study in English School in the 50s, even my Chinese educated wife insisted that I should cmmunicate with our offsprings in English if and when ‘they are born’ in the 70s. I told my wife then it will be over my dead body for me to agree with her wish and informed her that my mother had ‘fu ren zi zian’ which literally translated means ‘the idea of a fairer(inferior) being’(Confucius Saying not mine, though I accept).

As I have explained in my last comment before this that my reading of Language is a very personal interpretation and understanding, the historical facts as I know them is secondary to my idea of being in relation to the Nature of man(and other beings).

I believe Mr Ho and me had shared some similar Histories(Chrononically) of Singapore, however our views may have differed due to individual interpretations of events, especially in the spiritual aspect.

I am very thankful to Mr Ho for disclosing to me his intimate experiences with regard the fates of Nantah University and Vernaculars due to the ‘Language Evolution’ that had taken place.

patriot

Hi There Patriot,

I’m no less a patriot than you are, having devoted 38 years of my life to the cause of educating the young of our Nation. I believe in telling the truth and putting things iin perspective. So let me begin:

I joined the Teaching Profession in 1962. By the early 1970′s the writing was on the wall for the non-English Stream Schools. Yearly registration in Primary One in the Chinese Primary Schools, the Malay Primary Schools and the Tamil Primary Schools declined rapidly. Let me cite you several scenarios to substantiate what I have said:

Toward the close of the 1960′s, the danger of the non-English Stream Schools having to close down because of the rapid and marked decline in the yearly Primary One Registration exercise was only too obvious even to the Teachers and Principals of these Schools.

In an attempt to prevent these Schools from having to shut down, a number of English-Stream Schools were designated as Integrated Schools. An Integrated School was one where classes using Chinese or Malay or Tamil as the medium of instruction were conducted side by side with the English Stream classes. Invariably in any IntegratedSchool, the English Stream classes outnumbered the other non-English Stream classes many times over.

In the school where I was then teaching, there were 53 English Stream Classes and Two Chinese Stream classes spread into two sessions. The two Chinese Stream classes functioned in the morning. And I was teaching in the morning session. Now as you very well know, all schools start the day with the singing of the National Anthem followed by the saying of The Pledge. The several Teachers from the Chinese Stream classes told the Principal, who was himself from a Chinese Stream School that had to close down because of lack of pupils, that it was only fair that The Pledge by all the pupils in the School be taken in English one week and in Mandarin or Chinese the next week.

In other words, the Chinese Stream Teachers wanted the whole School to take The Pledge in English and Chinese on alternate weeks. The Principal acceded to the request. Now it doesn’t require great imagination to realize how comical the situation pan out to be. As majority of the pupils were from the English Stream, which also included pupils of non-Chinese ethnic background such as Indian pupils, The Pledge in English invariably turned into a loud chorus of voices speaking the English tongue. When it was the turn for The Pledge to be said in Chinese, the Teachers and Pupils standing some distance away from the only two Chinese classes could hardly hear what was said. Or rather what was heard was a stretch of murmur for a brief few minutes.

The English-Stream pupils could not join in saying The Pledge in Chinese because they were taught to say The Pledge in English as it should be since they were properly English Stream classes. Then to complicate matters, the two Teachers teaching Tamil as a Second Language started to express their views during Staff Meetings that as there were also Indian pupils in the School, perhaps the Principal should also set aside one week for The Pledge to be said by the Tamil Pupils in Tamil. It was obvious that, comedy apart, the situation was getting out of hand and a line had to be drawn somewhere.

The solution was finally found in having the two Chinese Stream classes take The Pledge in their classrooms while the English Stream Classes assembled in the basket-ball court for the daily singing of the National Anthem and the taking of The Pledge.

Then two years later another absurd situation occurred in the School. As the number of Indian pupils in the English Stream classes taking Tamil as a Second Language from the different levels numbered no more than a dozen for that year, it was soon learnt that for one particular level the Tamil-as-a-Second-Language Teacher had only one pupil in the class for that level. The poor Teacher teaching Tamil as a Second Language became the butt of joke in the Staff Room when his colleagues began jokingly to accuse him of giving ‘private-tuition’ during school hours.

By the beginning of the 1980′s all non-English Stream Schools had closed down, not because of any deliberate policy by the Government of the day to abolish those schools, but, because parents of all the different ethnic groups realized that the future for their children lay in their having their education using English as the medium of instruction. Even teachers from the non-English Stream Schools as well as those who were non-English Second Language Teachers had sent their own children to English Stream Schools.

So it was the realization of where the reality of the future lay for their children that determined parents to decide on an education in English for their children. With the demise of the non-English Primary Schools, a similar fate for the non-English Stream Secondary Schools was only a matter of time. And with the closing down of these Secondary Schools, how would Nantah or the Nanyang University of Singapore be able to have students to enroll for the various courses or disciplines that it used to conduct?

Hence to accuse the Government of the day for deliberately planning the demise of the non-English Stream Schools would be to turn the REALITY of life on its head. It was the economic consideration of their children’s future that led parents to enroll their children in English Stream Schools. This was what caused the non-English Stream Schools to have to close down. And this account that I have given is the absolute truth.

betrayals are pretty common in this land but I certainly feel the execution of Nantah is one of the most serious as I have said in the Comment, it cuts the Roots of Heritages of the various ethnic cultures.

Ethnicities are created by Nature.

I am an atheist, so my respect for Nature has got nothing to do with Religions.

thank You for your response.

I was in my youth when Nantah was brought down, I remembered there was much unhappiness amongst the Chinese, whether educated or not, population. That move by our local leader created a great sense of dejection, displeasure and a huge loss of heritage.

Liked the Alumnus of Nantah, I am still overwhelmed by the execution of Natah. I have to explain my reasons as it is quite a different reading, I am naturally in awe of Nature, as such I have ultimate respect for pure and original spirits and beings. This is to say anyone born of any particular Race has to be fidel to his/her/it origin and nature. Any attempt to usurp ones’ origin is Cardinal Sin to me. AND FOR ONE TO ADULTERATE, MODIFY AND CHANGE OTHERS NATURES, IT IS UNPARDONABLE SIN. Hence, taking away Chinese Language from the Chinese, Indian Language from the Indians, Malay Language from the Malays and others(anywhere in the World) is unpardonable sin. How others interpret my definition will have no effect on my idea and concept of Nature.

VERY UNFORTUNATELY and IN SINGAPORE, it happened.

The more successful Singaporeans in the earlier days of Straits Settlement were contributing much of their wealths for fellow immigrants to settle down and be educated in their Native Languages, namely Chinese, Tamil, Malay and others with English mostly as a Second Language, simply because the British was the Colonial Master. Before the British, some learnt Japanese to suit the Conqueror for a short while. The Various Races Successful People were very proud of their Native Cultures, including languages, customs, religions and traditional medicines and wanted very much to protect them from alien influences. In fact they wish to propagate their heritages and cultures, in Chinese, they called it ‘ Fa Yang Kwang Ta’. BUT

when Locals became Rulers, somehow the Regime, made-up(make-up) of mostly Local Chinese felt threatened(politically and socially speaking) by Vernaculars but proclaimed that English Language was(is) the Language of Success(Business/commercial/mercantile) overlooking the very fact that Japan, Taiwan, Hongkong, France, Italy, Belgium, Switzeland and lately China, India,Thailand, Vietnam and the up and coming dragon Indonesia had ever used English Language to prosper their countries. Conversely the Philippines which uses the American English widely, has yet to be an economic success. Where the hell is the proof that English is the Language of success? Or are our Local Asian Race Leaders telling us that the English Speaking Countries are perpetually the richest because they are English Language Users. Lots of Lapsus linguae, are we not been/being misled??

At the Last Nantah Alumnus congregation, the Alumnus were not decided if they should set up a new Nantah in SIN because they were not sure that the New Nantah, if built in SIN, may not suffer the same fate as the Original One. They are considering building it in Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand or elsewhere. Once bitten twice shy ha. If I may, I would suggest that it be built in Hong Kong.

In any case, I was telling readers that the destructions of cultural heritages of the Different Races here were not only a great mistake but a grave and sinful deed. It is unpardonable to me even if this country has made itself to be the richest country in the World, but alas it is not going to be and I do not believe it could ever be a Nation as all roots are roting if not rottened.

patriot

“I would love it, really really love it if we can beat them!”

No offence to Chih Yang or any Newcastle folks out there, but the emotional energy behind that quote sums up my feelings for the Whites.

Aint’cha a bit too harsh on the guy? He’s a senile citizen, mind you. You’d expect someone like that to behave everywhere everytime. He should count his bloody lucky stars he came into politics before YouTube came around. I’m sure what you described, if recorded on a cellphone, would be mongo hit on Tube. And I’m sure as hell the only thing he’s walking over is the carpet in his office. Same applies to the so-called new generation of Whites. I remember seeing Micheal Palmer being rude to a security guy at the Sub Court. Damn! If only I had turned on my cell!

During the 2006 mid-term elections, the incumbent Congressman George Allen (Republican) got his ass whipped by his Democratic challenger Jim Webb when a video showing him using a racial slur on a Webb supporter went viral on YouTube.

Right now, I just waiting for someone out there to video one of them Whites slipping up, say something real stupid, or do something real dumb, and upload on Tube.

They can’t be on their best behaviour all the time!

What’s that?

154) panter92 on Your comment is awaiting moderation. November 24th, 2008 7.36 pm My age does not matter. You people were never supposed to argue about it anyway.

smallvice,

If you persist on petty pursuits on my condescending behaviour, then so be it. I cannot believe you are older then I am.

Hahaha~

Joshua,

So if it’s not a good idea, it’s a bad idea? If you’re in a maze, no matter how much you can complain, the builder is still the builder. No matter how much you complain, if you don’t try to get out, you perish.

I never said people do not think. Forget about my first post. I apologise for that. It’s just that they find it difficult to show that they do think. I gave you the MRT scenario as an example. Singaporeans normally don’t like to stand out in areas that will make them different from a group. Courage is lacking. That’s why entrepreuneurship in Singapore is… lacking. The newspapers just publish who succeeded, or rather, all who succeeded, which would mean a rather small number right?

Hahahaha~

Well, I suppose someone else said that the ruling party should step down then.

I never said you said that the GRC system should be abolished immediately. Im just saying that the boundaries will have to be re-drawn if the system is scrapped immediately. That’s my main point. And the govt don’t have time for that now.

Goh Meng Seng is not an idiot. He’s a clown.. ;D Didn’t you wartch his speech on video? I think wayangparty blog has it. He needs to refine his public speaking skills. Notice that after Tan KL stepped down and Goh Meng Seng went up, everyone started getting restless and some left? Maybe the video doesn’t show, but I know, because I was there wayching personally.

As for proportional representation, this is the easiest way to ensure opposition entry into parliament. Go to wikipedia or google the words “Weimar Germany” and Weimar Constitution”. You’ll see why it’ll never work.

As for the Swiss system… it may not work either.

Your point on three PMs. You mean DPM? Haha~

Sun Zi’s art of war applies to military. You cannot apply that in politics without restraint or suffer devastating results. Unless you practice realpoliticks. Politics is really unpredictable. Your opponent may change anytime. But can your enemy general just change like that? Using Sun Zi’s strategies will make politics so dirty that everyone espeically myself will run away.

No, PAP don’t use that. They don’t need to, besides. They have the courts. MM Lee once said that some esteemed law organisation sent a letter praising Singapore’s erm.. judiciary as independent, but the group rebutted his statement. They sent no letter. I don’t think the latter news was published in CNA or STs.

After all, with the law minister belonging to the incumbent party, what to expect? Hahahaha~ But it has it’s advantages as well.

As you said, there are many shades of grey. Moderates. I’m neither left nor right. I’m in the middle. Nah, my legs won’t get wobbly. hey may just strengthen. What about you? Left, right or middle?

;D

Rgds

Current score: 0

Is it slanderous?

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Isn’t it obvious that you have overstayed your welcome?