Holland Bukit Panjang? well…should ask that union chief Mr. Lim to enlighten us further…maybe now he can use a small fraction of his “cpf” to repay the longkang!

sorry…”repair”

at the end, who is going to suffer, ultimately? singaporeans be prepared to pay higher SC&C charges, sooner or later. . .

Even the town councils are seeking to invest in their funds in order to prevent the erosion of their money by inflation. Surely individual investors are also seeking a decent return, not so much for profit (or as a result of greed) but to mitigate the impact of inflation. It is therefore unfair for LKY to say that because the returns are “high”, the risks are high too. In the first place, a 5% p.a interest cannot even cover the impact of the recent spike in inflation. I do not see how seeking a 5% interest rate is greedy. The fixed deposit interest rate in Singapore is pathetic, to say the least. If fixed deposit interest rates are substantial, the town councils will probably not be putting their money in these structured products.

I think we’ll soon be hearing “It was an honest mistake. Let’s move on”

So now what is next?

It seems like PAP is making a point: PAP is just as unsympathetic to the victimised investors as toward their own losses. However, unlike PAP, the victimised investors cannot afford these losses.

“Maybe a couple of percentage out of the total investment portfolio (were used in those investments), so the exposure will not affect the overall investment portfolio or the sinking funds per se. There’s definitely no fear that any of the PAP town councils’ sinking funds will be wiped out. All the supporting PAP town councils’ sinking funds are in safe hands,” assured Dr Teo Ho Pin, Coordinating Chairman of the 14 PAP Town Councils.

Dr Teo Ho Pin

Mayor of North West District

MP for Holland-Bukit Panjang Constituency
Chairman of Holland-Bukit Panjang
Town Council

I was just waiting for this minibond buble to burst, I think it just did. So what ever execuse are they going to say this time. “Town councils went in with their eyes open?!” And people can still say not to politised this issue, I think the government has shot itself in the foot this time. They have the whole nation to explain the losses in the minibonds.

And this is very shocking, why do we pay conservancy tax so that these goons can use excess money for the minibond? Who gave the go ahead to use extra money in investments. And worse, who recommended lehmand minibonds?! Who gave the green light to invest in these toxic products?! Isn’t the tax collected to pay for foriegn workers to keep our estates in working condition?!

And I just heard that Temesek Holdings investment in Australia’s ABC Learning Centre went bust. In all, 500 million was pumped into this learning centre and is now reported gone.!? Did Temesek go into this with open eyes too!?

These Town council who have been over charging us and invested the “extra-extra” money to even make more money from it . This greedy behaviour is not to serve the residents for we know how they make us pay even more and more. At least , the financial turmoil gets back on them and if they go bankrupt, who is to be accounted for?

Now, this proves that even ‘educated’ ppl could also make mistakes. So, it makes no sense to say that ppl go in with their eyes open.Even sophisticated investors like John templeton and peter lynch also make errors in believing a con-guy who was raising money for ‘charity’ years ago.

Why wasn’t the opposition party raising this question instead of an NMP? Shame on the opposition party, can’t even score a political goal when the goalkeeper is sleeping.

Well, PAP town councils are not alone, they have company all around the world, just ask other countries pension funds, insurance cos,municipal authorities.They also bought similar toxic assets.

It is best that the govt legislates that town council should only invest in government bonds, government agency bonds or index funds and prevent these things happening again.

I always find it strange that Town Council need to accumulate so much “reserved” so they can act like investment bankers — i.e. investing in Creative Technology.

The basic function of a reserved is to even out budgetary cycles not to collect money for its own sake.

So I can’t understand why is there a need for a guideline to “optimise return on investment”?

Basically, what a Town council needs to do is to estimate what is needed to be spent over a financial cycle and then estimate what it needs to collect over the financial cycle. Than stick to that spending limits. That’s all it needs to do.

Leave any “optimisations of returns” to the rates payers themselves. It is not the job of the town council to be investment bankers!

genuis..???
thinking time..

7) smallvice585: “It seems like PAP is making a point: PAP is just as unsympathetic to the victimised investors as toward their own losses. However, unlike PAP, the victimised investors cannot afford these losses.”

THESE ARE NOT PAP’s OWN LOSSES. TOWN COUNCIL’s LOSSES ARE RESIDENTS’ LOSSES!!!

Now, I think this is one issue that should be mentioned in Speaker’s Corner..

Or to demand accountability on the TownCouncil.
Someone have to take the fall.. Be the fall guy…
Even if it’s not the MPs, it must be one of the committee in the town council.

Anonymous (#14),

Since when PAP admitted that Town Council’s losses are Residents’ losses? Even Temesak Holdings is runned like a family business.

MM Lee once said, have a sense of proportion lah. SM Goh said, must see things in perspective lah.

So let’s move on lah.

On a separate note, the Swiss government has unveiled a 60bn bailout for UBS. I wonder what the worth of GIC’s stake in UBS is now…..

If town councils cannot even manage our money wisely, how can we trust Temasek and GLC which are make from the same mould- PAP?

P.B. Looks like our ‘top’ leaders,PM,MM,SM town councils all invested in these toxic assets.

From insiders, other TCs also invested millions in other structured products that now worth less than 20%.

The fact that there is legislation to allow TCs to invest up to 35% of sinking fund in riskier financial products means that there is too much sinking fund in the first place.

The role of the TCs should be very clear, ie to manage and maintain the towns under their charge. They are NOT mini-GIC or mini-Temasek tasked with managing reserves. Sinking funds are not reserves. Sinking funds are collected for a specific purpose, ie. to carry cyclical repairs.

LTK/SL/CST should introduce a bill in parliament to put a cap in the amount of sinking fund TCs are allowed to accumulate. I suggest the cap be 1.5 times the amount required to carry out 1 cycle of cyclical repairs. This law must ensure every TCs estimate and publish the amount required to carry out these works and just collect sufficient funds from residents for the said purpose over that period.

If any TCs have excess sinking funds should the cap be legislated, then the TCs should propose a reduction in S&Cs to gradually bring down the sinking funds to be in line with the allowed figures over several (say 5) years.

All TCs must also publish their accounts every financial year.

Holland-Bukit Panjang town council looks to be the one with their eyes most wide-open. They invested on both Minibonds and Creative company. Both are failed investment.

hongjun

“replacing lifts, pumps and pipes, re-roofing, and repairing and redecorating blocks.”

With so much money in sinking funds, are we getting discounts for the price we need to pay for lift upgrading? lift upgrading costs around 700 or more per household, based on my understanding.

How is lift upgrade cost calculated ?

They probably gave you market subsidy.

TWO PAP town councils “downed”. Twelve more to go …

Aljunied Town Council
Ang Mo Kio – Yio Chu Kang Town Council
Bishan-Toa Payoh Town Council
East Coast Town Council
Holland-Bukit Panjang Town Council
Hong Kah Town Council
Jalan Besar Town Council
Jurong Town Council
Marine Parade Town Council
Pasir Ris-Punggol Town Council
Sembawang Town Council
Tampines Town Council
Tanjong Pagar Town Council
West Coast Town Council

Looking forward to see Ang Mo Kio – Yio Chu Kang Town Council fail!

Other town councils such as Aljunied, Ang Mo Kio-Yio Chu Kang, Hong Kah, Marine Parade, Tampines and Tanjong Pagar also have exposure to Lehman Brothers.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/390407/1/.html

hongjun

MM Lee’s Tanjong Pagar also went in with eyes open!

Yes, another $4 million from the TCs such as Aljunied, AMK-YCK, Marine Parade, Tampines & Tanjong Pagar. The total is $16 million from all PAP TCs.

Instead headlining $16 million from all PAP TCs, the MSMs chose to highlight just $12 million from 2 TCs and buried the other $4 million in fine prints.

Guys,
I am not gonna discuss anything other than to ask:

IS ANYONE RESPONSIBLE AND ACCOUNTABLE ?

YES / NO .

tough question ???

In case PAP decides to re-write past records, I post the CNA report here. That’s what the Ministry of Truth does in George Orwell’s 1984.

———————————

2 town councils invested S$12m in Lehman-related structured products

By Dominique Loh, Channel NewsAsia
Posted: 17 November 2008 1646 hrs

SINGAPORE: Two out of 14 PAP-run town councils in Singapore have invested in Lehman-linked structured products.

Holland-Bukit Panjang and Pasir Ris-Punggol town councils have invested a total of S$12 million in DBS High Notes, Lehman Brothers’ Minibond Notes and Merrill Lynch’s Jubilee Series 3.

That is about 0.6 per cent of the total funds available for investments.

Senior Minister of State for National Development and Education Grace Fu gave this update in Parliament on Monday.

Town councils can invest up to 35 per cent of their sinking funds in corporate bonds and equities.

Based on the financial statements for 2007 submitted to the National Development Ministry, Holland-Bukit Panjang Town Council invested about S$8 million or 6.7 per cent of its available funds, while Pasir Ris-Punggol Town Council invested some 2.6 per cent, totalling S$4 million.

Other town councils such as Aljunied, Ang Mo Kio-Yio Chu Kang, Hong Kah, Marine Parade, Tampines and Tanjong Pagar also have exposure to Lehman Brothers.

The fund managers appointed by these town councils invested S$4 million in Lehman Brothers through their investment portfolio. These account for less than one per cent of each town council’s funds available for investments. – CNA/vm

Well, if the individual is responsible and “went in with their eyes opened” then are we to expect that the TC losses be written off like these individual? Where is accountability? Who is answerable? the MP’s who is incharge of the GRC or are we to accept the “honest” mistakes and move on?

The funds are also used to pay for lift upgrading, so that residents pay a smaller percentage of the total lift upgrading cost. – Straits Times

That’s where HDB upgrade monies come from. So for people who voted PAP for HDB upgrade, you have actually voted PAP to use your money to upgrade your HDB.

Here’s how it goes…

If I give you $40,

1) You can keep it safely and save it. Or

2) You can participate in a game where you stand to win $2 and keep that $40! But, there’s a catch, the odds are, there a chance of 1 in 20 that you stand to lose your entire stake of $40.

Which would you choose? Minus madman and children, I think 99.9% would choose 1), but apparently our minister choose 2) Can they explain why?

Eligible voters,
Pasir Ris-Puggol GRC = 178,393
Holland-Bukit Timah GRC = 118,092

$12 milion / 296,485 = $40.47

31) SevenEleven on November 17th, 2008 9.44 pm Well, if the individual is responsible and “went in with their eyes opened” then are we to expect that the TC losses be written off like these individual? Where is accountability? Who is answerable? the MP’s who is incharge of the GRC or are we to accept the “honest” mistakes and move on?

The PAP MPs are in charge by way of being a consultant to the TCs, so you tell me who is in charge? definately no MPs from the ruling party are going to admit any of these blunders, right?

Hello guys!!! that our $$$ not PAP $$$!!! They keep their sky high pay in their pocket and invest our $$!!! Since they got so much reserve in TC and can invest in this mini bond y cun they give us more rebate in S&Cs!!! Wat a good garman!! They still can sue you for jus not paying S&Cs for only 2mths and asked you to pay peneaty n legal charges!!!

Please Singaporean!!! Open ur eyes and c b4 you vote this time!!! Vote the LEEs out of parliment and everything will changes…mayb you can c more if they are out!!! (maybe something similar you c in taiwan nw)

aiyah, no point talking. they will never admit their mistake except to say let’s move on.

Seriously, how can they have invested ONLY $12 millions when the scambomb is marketed as LOW RISK not HIGH RISK product ? So how much percent of fund go into HIGH RISK ? Don’t tell me that they invest more in high risk than low risk.

What kind of investment decision is in place ?
Can someone really “independent” check TC’s account book ?

Now, can we deduct the loss of these taxmoney from the ministars and Woody, PM’s pay ? It’s time they account and responsible because they fail to assure that the policy of market discipline and Caveat Emptor market works.

Holland-Bukit Panjang MP said not much overall losses wor!!! See today’s news?

hongjun

“Holland-Bukit Panjang MP said not much overall losses wor!!! See today’s news?”
Indeed that is not much loss consider that $600,000 is just a peanut as once said by Mrs Peanut. What are these few millions of loss anyway to those who earn millions per year siting in Ivory Tower, evade of any responsbility and accountability, and happily punish “little people” and happily quote caveat emptor to move on when shit under them happen.

12million/600,000 = 12 000 000 / 600 000 = 20 peanuts
Why are people upset over 20 peanuts ?

Senior Minister Goh Chok Tong recently addressed grassroots leaders at a National Day event in Hougang. In his address, he gave Hougang grassroots leaders an idea of how to play the role of an effective “opposition” in the ward. He suggested that they:

“Study the annual accounts of the town council to ensure that the funds are properly used. Check whether the arrears for S&C (service and conservancy) charges are piling up, and eating into their reserves. Make sure that enough money is put aside for cyclical maintenance.”

http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/07/sm-goh-please-love-your-country-more-than-the-pap/

What an irony!!

Now is the proper time for Singaporeans to check PAP
Town Council’s books including TH and GIC as well.

As an old timer I am seeing the corrosion of the prudency of state financial activities from the time starting with the departure of Dr Goh Keng Swee.

What I am suprised is despite warnings and even one by Mr Tan Kin Lian as recent as a year ago, the government people in charge pay no heed to a more careful consideration.

The Government people in charge seem more to want to go on ego trips from investing in fanciful structured products to wanting to own a piece of failing western banks.
Is it possible to hold the MPs involved and the town councils in charge accountable in this latest disclosure ?
The Government seem to want to emphasize that the sums involved are relatively small; by the same token of agrument then all the MPs involved can afford and can collectively pay back all the wasted funds. It will be a nice gesture if all the MPs involved step forward and voluntarily do the honourable thing before moving on.

Over to you MPs involved and town councils in charge.

Eunice Olsen you are a hero.

town councils why not join forces with tan kin lian and party to sue to recover the money.

i know you are not old and educated but you are been misled also.

sue sue sue.

sinking funds are really sinking loh!!!

I remember that some banks were encouraging people to invest in minibonds with very attractive free gifts. For every $50000 invested in minibonds the bank gives you a free 37 inch flat screen TV or a professional digital camera or a set of top of the range cooker pots. I just wonder where are all these TVs and digital cameras and cooker pots now?

To #47

I know of an elderly investor in Minibonds who was not given the free gifts although she was entitled to. Her RM pocketed the free gifts for himself !! She was illiterate and the RM knowing that she cannot read, never told her about the free gifts, and kept the gifts for himself. She only found out much later but the RM had already left the bank.

yeah the rm will even pocket vouchers from shopping malls.

Despite all the many question marks found here,
where are the answers leh?

And maybe that is the way in the digital age?

the answer is in my heart.

the answer given by those pap people might not be always true.

beware.

Oooo, this issue again. Town Councils invested In High Risk Products with OUR Money which we put into S & C Funds for the Maintainence of Our Estates Instructure. =D Tat about sums it up right? Previously i already wrote about this issue. This is the exact description of wat S&C is used for
“The service and conservancy charges collected by the Town Council monthly are for the maintenance and enhancement of the common areas e.g. cleaning of common corridors. This does not include collecting and removal of refuse.”

I dun read Investment in High Risk Products anywhere. Anyway, let’s just clarify a bit since it’s not possible tat just by paying the little bit of Money Per Mth by every Household in the GRC will be able to accumlate so much money right? But then again, have we been paying too much S&C such tat every mth there’s surplus which accumlate over so many yrs amt to so much?

Well maybe we should congratulate the leaders of the Town Council for doing Such a Good Job in Investing Our/My Money. So this means I dun need to pay more S&C right? Huh, wat do u mean i still need to pay, Doesn’t the Billions in Funds Belong to the Pple who Paid S&C Dilligently Mthly? Do u mean to say tat Its My Money Being Used to Invest but the Profit Dun Belong to Me? Huh? Simi Logic?

“TWO town councils – Holland-Bukit Panjang and Pasir Ris-Punggol – have about $12 million invested in troubled structured products.”

Ai ya 12m only… Tat’s only 12,000,000 ma… 3 x LKY in 1 yr can liao right? Or is it 4? Nvm la…

“Since Dec 1 last year, the amount that town councils can invest in non-government stocks, funds or securities has been capped at 35 per cent of the sinking fund.

Holland-Bukit Panjang invested about 6.7 per cent of its total funds available for investment in the structured products, and Pasir Ris-Punggol, about 2.6 per cent.

The sinking funds are used to pay for long-term or cyclical expenditure, such as replacing lifts, pumps and pipes, re-roofing, and repairing and redecorating blocks.

The funds are also used to pay for lift upgrading, so that residents pay a smaller percentage of the total lift upgrading cost.”

Can invest 35%. But only 6.7% and 2.6% in troubled products. So if this 6.7% and 2.6% = S$0 is my Loss ah? Then if Earn whose Profit? And hor, can use to pay for lift upgrading so tat residents pay a smaller %?? Y Got Profit, I Still Must Pay? Risk I tahan, Profit I no Enjoy ah? Simi Logic?

“Ms Fu said town councils need to invest their funds prudently so that the accumulated funds are not eroded by inflation.”

Ai yo, LKY say liao lo…

“Please remember, when you get higher returns than what is the average in the markets, that means you are incurring higher risk. So on that message I leave you to ponder about your next purchase,” he said.

Mr Lee said many educated and young investors went in with their eyes open and banks will offer compensation according to what is fair. ”

I think our Dear MM very right lo… Tsk Tsk, our Town Council OrbiGood… But >_<~~~ The Money they Lost is Our/My Money right? …

“She noted that investments in stocks, funds or securities must be on the advice of a qualified person, such as an investment adviser holding a licence under the Securities and Futures Act, and an approved bank or a merchant bank approved as a financial institution under the Monetary Authority of Singapore Act.”

Haiz, Investment Adviser… So sad, the IA also give wrong Advise. Somemore is approve by MAS. Ai yo… y like tat… Town Council also kanna Cheated by the Investment Adviser aka Relationship Manager and invested in these Products which r Approved by MAS… Tsk Tsk…

Well, We/I Pay S&C which is not being used fully resulting in Surplus which Max of 35% is invested whereby Risk is Beared by Us/Me but Profits not Enjoyed by Us/Me.

Our Dear MM says “You Walk in with Your Eyes Open”

So ahh… Can I dun pay S & C anymore?

http://informationreadbyme.blogspot.com/2008/11/lucky-is-67-26-and-not-35.html

can still remember the 2008 national day rally speeches of how our kind government is actually trying to help singaporean to cope with rising costs by helding back some of the increases on service and conveyance charges.

They still have the intention to increase service and conveyance charges despite with so much town council funds on hand.

don’t complain lah singaporean, u give them blank cheque to do whatever they want. not happy? election time just throw them out loh, that is with or without good candidate.

Losing residents’ hard earned savings is a very serious matter. Who ultimately will be held responsible for the loss? The MPs, financial advisors, banks or the government which authorised the town councils to make such investments? I don’t know the answer. Residents deserve an immediate answer for they have placed their entire trust in their town councils and should not be made to bear the loss, whether substantial or not because they never authorised such investments.

Fellow citizens of Singapore, look what Top-Talent and World-Class has brought us to – Million dollar losses.

Is someone going to say, “Those losses are nothing, only the combined annual wages of a few of us.”

As what most netizens will label it: EPIC FAIL. Period.

“Fellow citizens of Singapore, look what Top-Talent and World-Class has brought us to – Million dollar losses.”
I think you underestimate our world-class governing talent. Do you think they care to call themselves world-class by losing just only millions ? No, they call themselve world-clown by losing billions.

Ya this is just another one of the many PAP’s screw-ups and it just make me boiled. We have given them too much trust and they have actually betrayed our trust in them all these years. One wonders what other dirty cobwebs will be revealed if we ask for a detailed BOI? I am not surprised GIC/Temesak is il the red to the tune of a few billion tax-paying surplus reserve money. You must know this money belongs to the the govt but belongs to the people who earns it by going to work 8 to 5 and also from our fathers who toiled day and night for a better Singapore.

My take is that Town Councils have being over-collecting from residents. Their last raise was only less than 5 years ago and now they have accumulated close to $2 billion in conservancy fees and this is growing by the millions daily due to regular intake and investment gain if any. They should now think of reducing such fees as I see many of my neigbhours struggling to pay so many bills monthly. This is not right especially when we have $2 billion extra fees in the town council coffers. This should be brought up in PArliament and any HLP protest.

Town Councils should not have at least 35% exposure to the risky equities market as the money belongs to the people – they toiled day and night to earn it and not to pay for some councils to squander it in the stock market. Any excess overtime should be returned to the residents or used to offset owed conservancy fees for those who are jobless or poor now.

Town Councils should also think of ways to return back the losses even if it is to “borrow” from the other govt coffers. As mentioned, the money does not belong to the govt but the people. It is hard earned money coughed out from those who toiled as a bus driver, factory worker, office executive, hawker, restuarent helper.

/// During a six-year period starting from 2002, the return on its investments totalled about S$24 million. As of March 31 this year, it also has a total kitty of S$118 million. ///

Assuming there were zero dividends from all its investments for the entire 6 years, and assuming that the fund size in 2002 was S$94 million (118 – 24), the returns worked out to be 3.86% per year for the 6 year period (or total gain of 25.5%). This is a miserable and pathetic return compared to the STI which had gained 98.3% for the 4-year period (31 Dec 2003 – 28 Dec 2007), when the Index rose from 1730.38 to 3430.89, giving a return of 18.7% per year. (Can’t get the Index for beginning of 2002, but it is likely to be much lower, and the return of the STI likely to be much higher that 18.7% per year.)

From 31 March to 18 Nov today, the STI has fallen by 42.8%. If we assume that most of the fund are invested in the local stock market (and not minibonds, CDOs, LDO, etc), that total kitty of ST118 million would now be worth roughly S$67.5 million. In other words, it is under water to the tune of S$26.5 million compared to the estimated original S$94 million in 2002.

The question to be answered is who should be made responsible or accountable for this saga?

60) loop asked: “The question to be answered is who should be made responsible or accountable for this saga?”

The answer is very simple: you Singaporeans. You place too much trust in a self-professed clean and incorruptible party government to deliver, paying them millions of dollars and when things go wrong, they just say, “Lets’ learn and move on…” They take you for granted, note how the PM implied in his speech that Singaporeans cannot be trusted to change the government and that change can only come from within the PAP.

So don’t blame government for all its screw-ups. Remember who put them in power today. If you wish better governance, those who are able please be brave enough to step forward, those who are not able please exercise your votes carefully.

Agree with 61) Tiredsingapore, but Singaporeans are very politically naive. Taiwanese writer Li Ao once said that Singaporeans are naive and stupid. He is right. The PAP also sell snakes oil and Singaporeans (at least those who get to vote) swallow them by the bottle.

On the other hand, those abled Singaporeans who can serve are either co-opted (change the system from within: fat chance!) or are too fearful of abandoning their comfortable existence to serve Singapore.

Come to think of it, it all boils down to fear (kia). No wonder everyone says that Singaporeans are so kiasu and kiasee. The PAP basically have a political walkover just by treading on these fears.

Tiredsingaporean/nogov:

I agreed with you two that our nation is a population of politically apathetic and fearful lot. They just dont bothered about what’s happening and carry on earning their 8 to 5 salary so long that they have a roof over their head and food to eat on the table.

The govt has seized the opportunity to persuade the nation that all is well so you can gomake your money and left everything to me. So now you have GIC reporting billion dollar losses in ABC Learning, Goldman Sachs, Citi and other lukewarm investments. Town Councils now reporting Lehman-related investment losses.

The late President Mr Ong Teng Cheong wanted to take a peek into the state accounts but were banned from doing so thus creating his own political demise. He did not even have a good state burial. Why can’t the President, with invested Presidential rights, take a look into those accounts? Until now, SIngapore has no clue to why Mr Ong can’t take a look.

My greatest fear is that we did not manage our state financial accounts well enough. Much was squandered along the way by some wayward investments. How GIC and Temesak Holdings invested our surplus money make me very worried and concerned. We lost billions in Shin Corp and 1/2 billion in Chartered. Another half billion now is lost in ABC Learning (A$441.00).

How much more money can we lose so that our nation will say no more! Show us transparency please!

Agree with 44)someday perhaps we have found our minority PM sooner than PM Lee expected. PAP should make her the PM and score points for choosing a minority PM and a lady some more!

63) Gilbert Goh Keow Wah on November 18th, 2008 11.37 am
The late President Mr Ong Teng Cheong wanted to take a peek into the state accounts but were banned from doing so thus creating his own political demise. He did not even have a good state burial. Why can’t the President, with invested Presidential rights, take a look into those accounts? Until now, SIngapore has no clue to why Mr Ong can’t take a look.

Yes, I believe there are many singaporeans who still cannot figure out the reason behind all these hidden stuff. Why our late President Ong who is well liked by many singaporeans, was then being stripped off of his post by who we all know? and I wonder if this got to do with something very serious in our nation reserve that the ruling do not wish to let the people know. Could it be too much losses to the point of serious depletion or too much of surplus that that it have to be kept secret so they can continue to tax us further for something else?

The PAP has really shown themselves as incapable time and again. Even a simple thing like managing sinking funds can be screwed up, and yet they can still claim they are able to take care of us. Why should we give them the mandate to rule again? Lost reserves, escape terrorist, transport hikes, utility hikes, and a union chief claiming to be unaware when people are retrenched. Is this a govt that deserves nus mandate?

and please dun give us the crap that it is hard finding people who are capable to run the country. If so many can migrate and survive overseas, i am sure the we can find enough talented people out there to run a small country like ours. Problem is that they have created a system whereby only people who fit into their mould are deemed good enough to be leaders.

“The PAP has really shown themselves as incapable time and again. Even a simple thing like managing sinking funds can be screwed up,”
Maybe it is meant to be in the first place as the word “sinking funds” tell you so. It is supposed to “sink” into the depth of abyss, uncoverable and unremorseable. It should more appropiate be called Shit Fund because losing it create Shit for the citizens who now need to pay extra levies to make up for the lost Shit.

No wonder the MM, PM, SM, and many clowns love the word “CAVEAT EMPTOR” because it means “NOT MY BLOODY BUSINESS”. No wonder they even distinguish between VULNERABLE and NON-VULNERABLE investors, and only VULNERABLE can seek compensation on case-by-case basis.

Who is the greatest and biggest investors in these SCAMBOMB who nonchalantly invest millions of taxmoney in it ? So does it take a rocket scientist to figure out the type of investor Town Council is ? Imagine how much DBS need to pay back taxmoney if Town Counil belong to VULNERABLE investors. How many of VULNERABLE investors beside TC/GIC actually invest millions and large sum of money ? I thought someone mention VULNERABLE investors represent only 5% ? It means 95% are the one contributed greatly to SCAMBOMB, of which TC/GIC make up a peanut of it.

In other country, terrorists drop real bomb to create devastating economical impact. In Singapore where we are more civilised and non-violence, we have here SCAMBOMB to create similar financial impact.

Can we ask the TC to repay back our conservation fee loss ?

“I am not surprised GIC/Temesak is il the red to the tune of a few billion tax-paying surplus reserve money.”

Don’t worry about gov depleting our reserves over bad investment. Singapore will never devoid of reserve no matter what because the populace is the real reserve. As long as there are millons of population, these reserves can easily be milked from these reluctant donators through increasing tax, PayAndPay schemes.
Now who dare say we will run out of reserve ?
As long as chicken exists, don’t worry no reserve to harvest.

69) Daniel on November 18th, 2008 9.16 pm
Can we ask the TC to repay back our conservation fee loss ?

Asking TCs to repay us back our SC&C fees? must as well ask them also to pay back all the court fines they had penalized earlier from those poor citizens who are unable to settle their monthly dues, its just complete madness to see so many affected singaporeans being penalized in court and further slapped with additonal fines for not able to pay up their SC&C fees. Do these citizens have to be treated like criminals?

>>THESE ARE NOT PAP’s OWN LOSSES. TOWN COUNCIL’s LOSSES ARE RESIDENTS’ LOSSES!!! (Post 14)<<

Judging by the statement – I’m not a Notes investor, but now I think I need to go and protest at Hong Lim Park next Sat.

The govt need to answer to the following questions.
1. What exactly are the sinking funds used for?
2. Why are there so much surpluses?
3. If there is a profit from the investments, will it be used to offset its resident’s SC&C charges?
4. Now there is a loss, how TC is going to account for the investments lost? (8 or 4 million is STILL not a small sum of money. So is TC going to
- Write it off?
- Increase SC&C charges for it residents to cover its loss?
- Deduct from minister’s pay?

TC invested our SC&C fees “with their eyes open”, so how will TC account for it?

tiredsingaporean,
look like Singapore citizens ought to return back the “kindness and goodness” our government using ElectionBomb in the election where all citizens vote negatively against the clowns. Let those ivory tower clowns taste the devastating effect of ElectionBomb where the PM lose the mandate to govern and all GRCs lost all the important contest. Will you think an army will be called in for freak election ? What if those army of soldiers and polices are themselves victims of SCAMBOMB and devious PayAndPay scheme ?

It is really ironic that our gov can even spend billions on infrastructure and tools to impede physical terrorist from entering our country and destroying the economy. Did the gov even introduce measurement and weapon against a new form of “terrorist” aka a financial “Terrorist” that legally and happily circumvent financial measurement and policy to introduce SCAMBOMB through financial product that even more potent than a real bomb ? A real bomb is illegal and can be detected, and its impact can be observed and felt, how about SCAMBOMB which is legal and cannot be detected and even supported by those in Ivory Tower as long as it makes money and boost GDP much to the detrimental of those who purchase it. The impact scambomb can be hidden, covered-up, move-on and kept secret as can be seen from TC’s attempt. SCAMBOMB is just a timebomb waiting for the adverse signal to trigger and bring financial devastation onto economy and innocent investors , vulnerable and non-vulnerable alike.

How are our government to guard against SCAMBOMB which at same time can be effective in accentuating Singapore as a financial hub ?
OUr measurement against SCAMBOMB ? Market Discipline and CAVEAT EMPTOR ?

73) Daniel on November 18th, 2008 10.02 pm
I supposed these MIW are now scratching their heads trying to gather all the resources they have to come out with a plan on how to solve all these problems created by them. Its not surprising when the top people are having a good times thinking how to pamper themselves with those $billions while their system actually created a big time bomb exploded. This is the big cost to pay for being too complacent and over confident of themselves all these years. But then again, it is still the citizens that is going to suffer for the mistakes of theirs and this also serves as a very good lesson learned for those people who has been supporting them with their votes blindly all these years. Hopefully, whether a forced 1 party system be implemented or not, the coming GE is definately not going to be something the citizens would not take on easily like those from the past events.

So much loss of taxmoney in ScamBomb, and dubious investment, so it is time ripe for the gov to introduce the Annuity scheme ASAP to get money from the citizen again, with this time quote that Average Citizen’s life expectancy is 100 years old.

“Hopefully, whether a forced 1 party system be implemented or not, the coming GE is definately not going to be something the citizens would not take on easily like those from the past events.”
How can the citizen and opposition party prevent a “WALKOVER BOMB” onto us by the desperate gov ?

There apparently is no effort to conduct an inquiry into this matter. Is it possible for citizens to set up a committee and investigate this matter?

77) Usherer

If I heard the Minister of State correctly, there will not be any changes to the investment strategy of TCs and BTW what can you do about it?? Did you hear PM LSL came out to speak on the issue? He is again trying to distance himself from such issues that might implicate him.

Your best bet is your voting card if you have the chance to vote that is.

THE SC&C FEE COLLECTED IS NOT SUFFICIENT TO MAINTAINENCE THE LIFT AT ALL.
MAY BE WE CAN CONSIDER OURSELVES LUCKY AS TO HAVE BEEN SUBSIDED.

AND WHEN ASKED, A STUDENT ANSWER: ‘ WHERE DOES THE EXTRA FUND COME FROM?’
NEITHER HE BELIEVED THE FUND IS LOSS IN ANY INVESTMENT.
AND HE SUGGESTED WHY NOT JUST RETURN & PUT BACK THE MONEY AND LET THE MATTER REST.
I THINK IT’S FAIR & HONEST.

Stop.. Wait a sec.. hold on just for a moment…

WHY THE HELL WAS A TOWN COUNCIL INVESTING MONEY IN DUBIOUS FINANCIAL PRODUCTS IN THE FIRST PLACE?!

Since when did the job scope of a town council include profiteering and investing the people’s money in financial products?! Explains all the ridiculous increases in conservancy charges and other idiocies.