Hi Friends,

It may be just me. I believe singaporeans will ACCEPT in terms of Pay And Pay the premiums after the hike.

Many have not experienced any unhike or hike reversal.

Many have resigned to fate.

If hikes were to happen overseas…..

*scratch my head*

Yes, I also feel something is not right here. The premium keeps increasing because insurance companies lost 100millions in repair claims. How do this figure derives from? you mean in 1 single year? how can that be? how many motor cars get into accident in just 1 year? are those motorcars involved are all BMW, ROLLS ROYCE or FERRARI? why so high claims? this gives me the thinking why there are so many auto repairing companies emerging from the market during the last 5-10 years period, must be making very good easy monies duh! Do you car owners feel what I feel? is this the real cost of the problem in premiums keep increasing? which can be easily pass on to the consumers to bear.

Have an online vehicle insurance website which list down price quoted by all major insurance companies. Let consumer has the choice to pick one based on added value and reasonable price. Why didn’t GIA set up a online website that all major companies put up their price online? There can also be all major repair workshops having their price listed on most common repair works. If certain replacement parts are imported from overseas there should surely be a fixed price inclusive of duties and shipment costs, what is unclear is the service repair costs that are very vague and varies from workshops. Forced all insurance companies and workshops to list their price online. The premiums kept going up can only rest on one reason, poor policy makers. GIA can also sell membership fees annually to all drivers so that they can access this website for the service and discount. It more or less pay off the cost of maintaining the website. There are many other ways to bring about change. Once a particular car that has finished the repaired at the workshop its data should be uploaded to the website. The total cost of repair, duration and itemized bill should be put online too. This act as a history log for all users to see the track record of the repair workshop and cost of repairing a particular model so that insurance companies and users can have a clearer record to rely on. Only with transparency can motor claims be brought under control. Nobody likes to have their car banged, but neither do you want to bang others and be claimed till your premiums break the roof. The best way is to be responsible in asking the workshop to repair the car to original state and every job be itemized.

Who Bails out insurance companies?
Who Bails out electric company of sessame street?
Who Bails out fiascos?

Insurance companies are not effective in controlling the repair cost for vehicles involved in accidents. Hence, the claims continue to escalate, for the following reasons:

a) Repairers inflate the repair cost and aggravate the damages
b) Lawyers get involved and add legal expenses (another 30%) to the claims

The hands-off attitude of the government is responsible for this state of affairs. The repair cost is higher than it should be. So, consumers have to pay more than necessary.

In many countries, the government will introduce laws to control the abuses. In Singapore, this is left to the market.

The insurance companies are quite happy to let the claims continue to escalate. as they can increase the premium rates to match the higher cost. Increased premium means more money for the broker, repairer and profit. for the insurance companies.

In some countries, the regulator sets limits on the rate of increase in the premium, as it is their duty to protect the consumer (as insurance is complusory by law). With this cap, the insurance companies are forced to find ways to control the claims (otherwise, they will make a loss).

If motorists complain loudly about the increase, maybe the regulator or the government will take action?

since when has complaining loudly by citizens made the government take any meaningful and significant action that can possibly reverse the claim?

make sure this is one clear example that is taken down and noted by opposition parties about the inaction and the lack of empathy by the government to citizens, and their unfair protection of companies at the expense of consumers.

let me share a experience. Somewhere one and half years ago my mazda 3 involved in a back collision accident. I was very sad for the driver who bang into my car rear because a taxi infront of me thinking that a guy standing on the side of the road waiting for a taxis and he jammed his brake to check if he had wanted a taxi. I have no choice but brake immediately to avoid an accident. Lucky for me that I usually pull my hand brake when stop. If not, the impact from the car behind me would have send me knocking into the taxi.

Thinking that it is a clear cut accident, I called the mazda 24 hours hotline to send my car to their workshop. However, interesting is that the car tow person told me that mazda do not make claim for it car owner thus owner need to pay first and file claim himself to his insurance (which in my case NTUC). Therefore, I was adviced that he will recommend a workshop for me instead. I totally regretted the decision later. First of all, my damage was only at the rear of the car, which involved bumper, rear chasis and my exhaust bender with cracks. I thought some photos myself (maybe my instinct tell me that I should not trust the workshop too much) on the damage for future referene. It is always wise to do so. When I received my car, I was shocked that all had been repaired but instead the exhaust was reconditioned.

I checked with NTUC how much they are claiming against the car owner who knocked me and was shocked to know that it was amounted to $5 approximately. Frankly, I suspected that even my bumper was recondititoned. Which actually I have photos to prove it. I was angry and went back to the workshop and confronted the boss. I asked why the claim chalked up to $5k and yet my exhaust was re-con? He told me that there was slight damage on my front bumper the re-con work there dervied to this amount. I told me to stop bullshit and threaten to send the before after photos to the other party insurer to stop the claim. He told me that would also affect my claim and I hint to him maybe I should get NTUC look into this issue first since they are to pay first. He come to realize my persistence and immediately change a new exhaust on the spot Which
He t-loan from another nearby workshop.

Some thing that I felt fishy is the surveyor that was doing my car damage assessment. I asked him a few critical questions and he was very unwilling to disclose them. Such as “you represent the workshop or insurer” etc? He look very suspicious to me. I know some surveyors actually makes 15k a month and wondering it is truth? One thing for sure if you ask me where the insurer lost went to, I say may the control should be more focus on them to reduce premium.

We all have been reading news about companies in Singapore losing money. For example SBS Transit has also reported losses in revenue due to high diesel prices in the last few months. This report was in the ST 13 Nov 08.

If you guys still remember, our electricity provider also reported losses due to higher fuel price. Resulting a 22% increase in tariff. So who pays for the losses? The poor citizen like us. Indirectly we are also having losses as our income get cut by all this rising cost. Can we recoup our losses? We have no one to recoup from.

So now insurance company again report huge losses in revenue due to increasing numbers of claims. They have reported such losses not too long ago resulting in an increase of about 20% in premium. Mr Tan Kin Lian has rightly put it that the insurance companies are not able to manage the rising cost in repairs. But choose an easy way out by passing the losses to us.

Looks like this is going to be the trend. Company with losses will recoup them from consumers. So we pay for their losses.

I guess they are better of than Singapore Pools if they adopt such attitude.

To make things worst, our government is not taking any steps to curb this. But allowing companies to continue with such practice.

We are really fools to allow them to just throw their shit at us as they like without fighting back.

of course the surveyor can’t be too notorious if not for some rouge workshop that they work for or sometime even car owner themselves asked for “small favour” from them. In short it is all about greed of people! But I think in most cases, surveyor might be the missing link that bridged this greed.

perhap, there is a system to insist that the car owner take a before after photos and given a clear instructions on where the photos should be taken and how it should be taken depending on the location of the impact and send to their insurer. This would then compared to that of a surveyor. For driver who do that, some form of discount for the excess can be stipulated to encourage them. Heavier penalty to the surveyor or even jail term should be in place.

# 7
“I know some surveyors actually makes 15k a month and wondering it is truth?”
What u mentioned is truth, I know my neighbour who is a survey bought a pc of land of 6000 sq ft and rebuilt it into a 3 story bungalow. I heard his son also now in the same business and stayed in a condo somewhere in BT area.

11) No fear for change on November 14th, 2008 10.14 am # 7
“I know some surveyors actually makes 15k a month and wondering it is truth?”
What u mentioned is truth, I know my neighbour who is a survey bought a pc of land of 6000 sq ft and rebuilt it into a 3 story bungalow. I heard his son also now in the same business and stayed in a condo somewhere in BT area.

Thats what I am saying earlier, why the no. of auto repair shops keep increasing since the last 5-10years, is it so profitable business that because the no. of car accidents keep increasing? (then something is wrong here) I always feel that most of these so called repair workshops do not really do the repair job but instead they are more concern about the money they can claim on your behalf, WHY? something is very wrong here, right?

When insurance repair costs six times more than private repair, is it surprising? lol. Its just another rationale for insurance companies to claim more premiums.

What happens to all these premiums? Its not like they go entirely to paying the repair cost. Instead, as we see from AIG experience, the money goes into gambling which in bad times, means more taxpayer money to rescue. lol.

Ultimately, what does that mean with compulsory requirement for insurance?

Just pay lah.

I ride my Bike. =D

Anyway I recall commenting else where tat in the past, Inital Cost of Buying Car is High and Usage was Lower.

Now is Initial Cost Low but Usage Much Higher.

This results in pple who do not plan well buying car and suffering later.
At the same time, there’s a explosion in the Population of Cars on the road which results in Poor Traffic which in turn Links to Higher Cost of Usage (ERP, Parking, etc)

This Poor Traffic also results in delay in Public Transport as Bus get caught in Jams too. Thus Bus are slow due to the Amount of Cars on the Road and not due to the Poor Service. But Amount of Cars on the Road was due to Lowering the Cost of Buying Car. =X

Additionally, due to Bus Delay, pple convert to taking MRT which also results in Higher Number of Humans per Sq Meter in Trains. =X

So, everything is actually link. So sad…

I wonder if anyone wrote any article regarding Cars, Prices of Cars, Comparison of Past and Present.

Insurance Companies dont bother too much on claims. I reversed and banged into another car. Damage to my car is some scratches and $230 was my quote. Similar damages to the other car. I reported to my Insurance company, assessor took photographs of my car damages.

Then I received lawyer’s letter from the other car ownner claiming several thousands dollars including changing car head lamps etc! I called my insurance company to alert them on the possible fraud. Few months later, I was kicked out by the insurance company and when I called to ask why, they told me it was the claim experience and confirmed to me that they have settled and paid the few thousands dollars claim!

What to do? So weak and take too much trouble to contest that it is better they just pay and recover from increased premium!

14) Daniel lim

Fully agree. Singapore unlike places like Hong Kong which has a very strict control over where the taxi can stop to drop or pick up pessenger. Don’t believe try waving for a taxi at the wrong place when you visit Hong Kong next time.

I am always puzzle over why the police or LTA do not enforce on the taxi? One day, start to think maybe being one of the biggest state owned taxi rental company in Singapore Confort. The taxi drivers benifits from this relationship, because if they want to slack to comfort taxi, they have to do the same for the other to avoid the obvious.

I felt that problem with Singapore is that they have too many state holdings. Unlike private organisation that need to react fast to the rules and people’s complaints. State Holdings can easily bypass them which the private can’t.

Mind you. I still have not touch on price fixing! Which they can ignore the public with the given backing, but not the private or foreign investor. Just ask yourself, how many of those are state owned in Singapore?

Dr Albert (#10) said:

perhap, there is a system to insist that the car owner take a before after photos and given a clear instructions on where the photos should be taken and how it should be taken depending on the location of the impact and send to their insurer. This would then compared to that of a surveyor. For driver who do that, some form of discount for the excess can be stipulated to encourage them. Heavier penalty to the surveyor or even jail term should be in place.

Actually, there is a simpler system. Already, 10 idac centers (independent damage asssessment centers) have been set up all around Singapore. It is easy for the Government to pass a regulation that the motorist must send the vehicle for inspection at the idac center before they are sent to the workshop.

But, the government does not want to pass this regulation. They prefer to leave this matter to be sorted out by the insurance companies. The insurance companies have no power to insist on this requirement. So, the motorist will continue to suffer the inflated claims.

In some countries, through regulation or market practice, the motorist must submit a cliam to the insurance company and agree on the claim, before it is sent to the workshop – even for third party claim. Lawyers are not involved. They do not suffer the inflated claims as much as in Singapore.

If we do not deal with the real problem, we will always have to suffer the consequences.

If we do not deal with the real problem, we will always have to suffer the consequences.

Yes, just like any other price hikes here which were then passed on to the consumers.

Hi Everyone,

I work in a related industry. The total repair/ claim would consist of the following components:

1. Repair cost for both your car as well as the other party (if you are at fault). Additionally, the average age of the car population in Singapore currently less than 3 years only. Therefore technically speaking we would be allowed to send our beloved car to the Authorised Distributor for repairs; and we would do so in order to maintain our 3 Years Warranty. Unfortunately AD repair cost do cost a ‘bomb’, and if it is your fault, you may have to bear the cost of repair for the other car which probably will also be sent to another AD for repair as well.

2. Loss of Use. Assume that it takes 3 days for the repair. How much for the rental of an equivalent car for this period?

3. Loss of earnings. Hit a taxi and you will probably have to pay for the loss of his earnings as well as the daily rental of the taxi.

4. Surveyor Fees.

5. Lawyer Fees. Somehow most insurance companies do not bother to respond to your claim if you initiate your own claim against them ….. until you get a lawyer to send in a letter.

6. Medical Fees. Unfortunately, most people like to go for full body checkup no matter how small the wiplash (if any). Even if they think they are ok, they will still go just in case. So how much is it for an X-Ray or a Scan?

7. Inflation.

Therefore, you may notice that there are so many components added to the final claim amount –> Obviously more than just the cost of spray-painting and panel beating.

Hope this helps.

We are not happy about this rising cost of premium results from poor management of repair and related jobs by insurance companies.

But can we do something about it?

I think in the event of Accident, Right or Wrong party always suffer. The best policy is still drive safely. Then again, like LHL said, shit happen. What to do? Have to move on.

I still insisted that traffic police and LTA should somehow make more sense and put in more efforts in traffic regulating. Have you guys actually noticed that nowsaday big vehicles drive like F1. Like I mentioned in my previous, taxi should be regulated on where they can and cannot pickup pessengers!

The reason why idac was not involved in my accident claim is because it was a very clear cut case and the driver admit he was wrong. Like I said, I felt really sorry for him. Finally, heavy penalty should also counter with greater rewards. Since they are going to charge higher for premium. I think it would be fair to increase the NCD discount too, for people who do not cause hazard to the road. Carrot and stick must strike a balance!

Two stories to share.
1st. My cousin was involved in a motorcycle-car accident. The car driver was solely being blamed though I think my cousin has a small part in the collision.
The end result was an 80K++ settlement. The lawyer got 3K, my cousin 50K and the bike shop got 30K. The bike shop took to underwrite the entire legal process which is rather a straight forward case. The bike was still under hire purchase scheme.
2nd. My friend’s son (biker) had a simple brush with a JB worker riding a brand new S’pore registered bike. Initially it was resolved amicably since he took the effort to attend to the JB guy as well as medical expenses which was not considerable. Sometime later, he was summoned and had to pay about 5K to settle the fracas that thought to be solved.
In both instances, it seemed a third party got interested in the ensuing process to get extra financial gain. Well, these 2 are not the first and probably not the last since such practices are widespread unless the authority do something about it.
Simply put, if a new vehicle is involved in accident … someone need to put a stop to the such profiteering.

Hi Singlish (#20)

If you do not like to pay higher premium, here is what you can do. It is taken from the conclusing paragraphs of my articles.

What can motorist do?

Here is a little bit of history.

In 2003, the insurance companies lost a lot of money on motor insurance. They jacked up the premuim by 20 percent.

I headed a task force which recommended the setting up of independent assessment centers (idac). All insurance companies agreed to impose a policy condition that the motorists must report accidents and have the damages surveyed in idac, before they are sent to the workshop.

This would have prevented the aggravation of damages and inflated repair cost.

One large foreign insurance company decided to withdraw from the scheme. They were probably pressured by the dealers of new cars. Another two insurance companies that wanted to tap the market for new cars also dropped out.

The regulator (MAS) could have been pro-active in encouraging them to stay with the scheme, but they decided to keep their “hands-off”.

The remaining insurance companies continued with the idac scheme. It helped to contain the inflated repair costs.

Later, other insurance companies dropped out of the idac scheme, as they were not able to reduce their repair cost. As time goes on, the workshops were able to get back to inflating the repair costs. It becomes a “market practice”.

If the regulator is interested to reduce the premium for motorists, they have the power to do something constructive. They can require the motorists to send their vehicles for inspection at an idac center before sending to the workshop.

If the government is able to pass laws that requires employers to buy insurance for their maids, or to collect ERP charges at various places and various hours, why can’t they pass a regulation to require the vehicles to be inspected at idac centers?

Tell the garment if they pass this regulating law, they can masok 10% of the repair cost from all repaired vehicles, this I think they will be more than glad to do so. I think at this time, 5% they also take cos they already lost so much of the citizens monies in speculation, chinese saying no prawns, fish also can!

A headache faced by insurance companies is to assess the liabiity between the vehicles involved in the accident. Both parties give conflcting statements and quarrel about the party at fault. See this blog:

http://tankinlian.blogspot.com/2008/11/assessment-of-liability.html

In many cases, the lawyer gets involved in filing a claim by one party. The other party is obliged to engage a lawyer. The total claim cost is jacked up by lawyers’ fees and other administrative expenses.

We need a better system to handle the assessment of liability. Some countries adopted the “no fault” system to avoid this type of unproductive work.

Our regulator prefer to stand by the sideline. Hence, the escalating cost cannot be arrested. We need a more proactive regulator.

How can they pass all these additional costs to the motorcar owners? If the insurance companies faced conflicts with each other when comes to claims, and they fight it out through their representing lawyers and throw all these additional fees onto our account? and we consumers have to bear all these costs?????? hello………..all you idiots, want to make extra monies but not at the expense of the consumers, ok! in the end everyone makes alot of $$$ and the car owners keep paying like a boody fool. I hope the authority LTA do something about it and stop all these profiteering from all these idiots out there.

I think the premium increase is crazy for me. This is my 3rd year therefore, I am entitled with 30% and additional 5 % safety discount. However, my premium is higher than last year!!!. This translate to about 40% increase in premium for me. Wonder how the premium is quoted… Should a reference to last premium paid be included for renewal to make it justifiable?

Been driving for 6 years. This year is my 2nd 50% NCD but surprisingly the renewal notice stated 20% NCD discount and my premium is double:

2007-2008 = S$952
Renewal quoted = S$1833.57

Day light robing…

Reference to the latest article dated on 13th Mar’09, it’s going to be another 15-20% up for motor premiums again.
I wonder if those insurers in Singapore are really serious to mete out the annual premium increment issue.

Personally, I would agree with Mr. Tan Kin Lian’s posting 4 months back.

“The insurance companies are quite happy to let the claims continue to escalate. as they can increase the premium rates to match the higher cost. Increased premium means more money for the broker, repairer and profit. for the insurance companies”.

If that is the case, who should step in? It can’t be GIA, for most of them works for insurers. For the sake of Singapore motorist, I urged government agencies like LTA could step in and regulate the whole motor insurance industry.

I am another victim of those Stupidity driver causing my car involving in the accident 2 month ago. I have been a very careful driver for almost 10 over year been my last accident. Juz not my luck on that day when i bumped into this inexperience jeep driver causing me to make a claims on my own insurance. My car still under warranty so the workshop that NTUC appointed had to call the agents to replace geninue parts. Frankly speaking, i am aware of my car that I am driving as is not common on the road and is not PI, it belong to Kah Motor agent. Finally the final bill calculated to be $21K on my japanese car repairs. I am stunned with the cost arrived and demand a breakdown price of each part that they replace…but the officer said will take a while. When i ask about what is the amount of my next premium, i was shocked that they said is $7+K and after my NCD is around $3.5+K. I asked them why so high and theirs reply said is been calculated and that is the amount. My concerns is how insurance company arrives this figure and how long it will stay at the figure. Currently, i am paying something like $1.1K for a 3.5L and now is 7x more i have to fork out…likely i got the NCD protection or else…..???. Do I have no choice not to pay for my insurance…i dont think so? I reads and heards so many cases and now i am also the victim….dont think this kind of incidents will change overnite. Bobian….LL, paid and life goes on. Is any of those organisation outside able to help us in this HIGH insurance…do give a hand. I dont think CASE is doing anything to help or any other people out there can tell us what is going on? Daylight robbing…during this enconmy crisi.