well, he needs to feel “richer” more by looking at his monthly CPF statement, before he will actually get to do some real work.

In fact, I think that if he had spent more time with his CPF statement and kept his mouth tightly shut, there wouldn’t be any resentment, since apathy from our politicians are always expected. What was unexpected was that he let loose his cannon, shot himself and didn’t hit the target that he wanted. As the saying goes, what’s the use of crying over spilled milk and not doing anything? Bashing DBS in public wouldn’t make DBS retract those retrenchments. It wouldn’t make those 900 retrenched feel any “richer” looking at their monthly CPF statements. It wouldn’t gain him any political points or support because people now see him as “say only do nothing”. So I have absolutely no idea what he hopes to accomplish by bashing DBS in public. He really needs to work on his PR more or hire a new foreign PR consultant, foreign because he can save on the CPF and make him feel “richer” by increasing his own pay and CPF subsequently.

Seems to me to be an unusual episode – I look thru the names of all the BOD and not one of them would pass off as “a rebel without a cause”.

My mind race thru all the theories from conspiracy , complicated ploy to gain votes in coming election, etc, to perhaps just plainly doing one’s job as a professional for bottom line profitability sake with corporate social responsibility being intangible here.

Search me – I am at a loss for words! The present Chairman of DBS is a guy with a steep production background but he is always cautious when it comes to political reactions, although at times he can be very opinated.

Is self inititiated change for the better also coming to Singapore after the aftermath of the failed very established western financial institutions ? perhaps the labour chief should not be so quick to be on the trigger to accuse the DBS bosses who may just be doing the needful this time as I am reminded of the other previous top down doing – in swallowing up POSB.

This episode seems to add on to general observation that GLCs’ bosses lack the equivalent EQ to their high IQ.

Thank you.

It now seems that the top brass of the DBS bank fumbled badly in the way it handled the AXE in this recent excercise, a fact confirmed by a MINISTER no less. They themselves must have had big hand in steering the bank into this predicament and now fumbled again in the way they summarily AXED the maybe scapegoats. They can now no longer expect to have good rapport with the remaining staff and can no longer expect staff loyalty. Maybe the AXE can be used once again now with better marksmanship engendering fairness all round.

well it’s about time for him to face the real world…it’s easy to talk cock when all things are smooth and easy…bragging day in day out…let see how he wriggles out of this! to put it bluntly..they do not respect him..period.

So, what happened in the end ?
The retrenched DBS employees got their jobs back?

So, what is the effect after what Lim has said?

Anyone knows?

Its not too long ago, we have had a ‘conflluence of events’
Isnt whats happening similar – mis-selling, retrenchment, cpf-loaded minister pulling out his ‘revolver’ (he thought he’d pulled out his cpf statement again).
I guess this time round no independent enquiry or ‘angel’ (investor) mr koh boon hui have to apply for a job in HP.

Since when did NTUC start representing bank VPs and MDs ? So DBS starts laying off people who were making several $100,000 a year. Why is that NTUC’s problem ? Face it, some businesses are going away for a long time – e.g. selling structured products (aka toxic waste) to old ladies – the bank is not going to need the services of the people who designed those products, and we’re probably all going to be better off for it.

With reduction of income from sale of derivatives, M&A, commerical loans, housing loans, DBS and other banks must cut costs to remain profitable. This down-turn is not short-term and fore-cast to last for several quarters.

DBS took the decision to cut costs to match the projected income and also took the opportunity to clear deadwood, overpaid and unproductive staff.

Trade union representing who ? for what ? waste of time?

Guys, doncha think P. N. Balji writes very nicely? nice wordings. No wonder he got the job.

ISn’t ntuc a company doing supermarket business?? Now they finally realised that their role was workers union??

Without any bargaining power (ntuc) and real backing of the workers, i foresee more companies doing the same stunt. LLPL for LSS

while DBS staffs get compensation of 1 month pay for each employment year they had served. I am afraid other MNC carrying out similiar exercise might not use the same compensation scheme since it is not a legal requirement to do so. They might just give you one month notice for you to look for job and not paying any compensation at all. So much for job security in Singapore!

For the retrenchment of DBS, they still entitle 1 month compensation for each single year service. I suspect that other MNC retrenchment might not have the same compensation scheme since there isn’t any legal requirement to do that.

I think Lim Bie Si should be retrenched and go for retraining to sell mini bomb.

The 1972 Amendment to the Industrial Relations Act gives employers the right to retrench workers without consulting the trade union. It is none other than Lee Kuan Yew who had pushed for this amendment.

Partnership between union and employer?
More fiction than fact isn’t it when a GLC can do this what can you expect of the other employers? The govt and businesses are obviously in cahoot!

It’s time for the union leaders and members to take out the placards, form the picket lines, and march into the DBS HQ.

Thanks for the well written article Balji. The DBS retrenchment raised several shortcomings of our unionised workers:

1. Workers actually do not have rights like many other countries. The DBS saga only emphasized that. If this happened in Australia, workers will not only protest but strike. Before retrenching a large group of workers, management has to consult the powerful unions who will then talk to the affected workers. If the workers refused, other measures will then be initiated e.g. cutting pay, job sharing, re deployment or go on short unpaid leave. Apparently this did not happen at all at DBS.

2. Bank unions are still at the mercy of the management. Staff manning such unions are also subject to the whelms and fancies of the employers. I don’t see that our unions are powerful enough to say no when all things failed. If a union does not have enough power to negotiate with employers, it is better not to have unions at all. By stripping off powers from unions for fear that they may strike or go slow like in many countries, we have actually remove their inherent power to negotiate. DBS has show that finally the employer still win.

3. By adopting the tri-partite arrangment with NTUC acting as one big umbrella union, we have eventually surrender our workers’ rights to the structured union hoping that they will defend our rice bowl and whatever rights. I have seen how often staff was dimissed unfaily by employers in my work places and never fail to realise that we are inadequately protected at all. Most executive staff also do not have unions representing them as we always advocate a consultative approach between staff and management. In the end, we are all screwed.

4. I agree that DBS may seize the opportunity in this crisis to remove expensive deadwood. Many retrenched belong to those who are senior management staff like MDs who may draw betwwen $8 to 10K per month. Their work can easily be duplicated by a younger staff drawing less that amount. So it is a good time to cut cost and sometimes it is difficult to justify as they are still productive and hardworking. An MD friend of mine working in DBS six years ago was retrenched as she was deemed too expensive to keep. She had worked in DBS for 20 years and her position was taken over by one of her reporting staff.

5. The legidlation of our unions need to be redefined again. I wouldn’t want to argue whether LSS did a good job here or not as truly he was put in a Catch 22 position given the fact he was advisor to the bank union. One smelled a rat somewhere though. Hopefully, we can draw out some new measures to protect our innocent workers who now not only are challenged by the influx of new FTs but also unscrupulous employers who will wage the axe anytime.

Singaporeans need to continue to be nimble and upgrade their skills regularly. There is no stability in the job market in this down time and it is always to stay prepared for any eventuality.

By adopting the tri-partite arrangment with NTUC acting as one big umbrella union, we have eventually surrender our workers’ rights to the structured union hoping that they will defend our rice bowl and whatever rights. – Gilbert Goh (#16)

Just like I had previously mentioned, Lee Kuan Yew amended the Industrial Relations Act in 1972 to allow employers to retrench workers without consulting trade unions. On top of that, strikes in essential services are outlawed. Strikes are only legal if and only if it takes place in a non-essential sector and that majority of the members approve it via secret ballot. Sympathetic strikes are illegal too. No doubt workers are screwed under the tripartite arrangement.

Many retrenched belong to those who are senior management staff like MDs who may draw betwwen $8 to 10K per month. Their work can easily be duplicated by a younger staff drawing less that amount – Gilbert Goh (#16)

How do you know? Where do you get your numbers? Bank MDs are not even considered senior management. They are merely middle management. Don’t you know banks tend to inflate titles?

How is it that the DBS staff union knew of the decision to lay off about 500 workers only three days before the employees and the public knew about it? – PN Balji

I thought DBS retrenched 900 people.

900 includes hongkong. last time there were 65 md in dbs not sure now. above md, have all sorts of vp etc so md is middle mgt in dbs bank.

DBS and mini-bonds – tragic product that saw the boat sank with lock, stock and barrel. Whoever decided on bringing in the product has got to be the first to go. Was this fellow retrenched? He should have been sacked long ago together with those who believed in him.

DBS retrenchment; Nice and brave words from LSS but how come he was also taken by surprised?

Just as Gilbert said it, “workers here do not have rights”.

Indeed, the link (worker’s rights) has been missing for so long because, again, the people have been so full of trust that, like the way they trust the PAP govt, they believed that their welfare have been taken care of, only to suddenly wake up the next morning to discover that they are in a cold dark place, all alone, with no one to turn to.

This is exactly the same with those who continue to trust this PAP govt blindly.
Many other issues governing the state have these missing links too. One of the most glaring is the presence of alternatives. Do we want to wake up one day in a cold, dark place and all alone and in despair?

So much attention was given to the investors of the minibonds but I did sound out very early on TOC that we ought to focus on the lives of those not directly affected by the minibonds issue. We also have to look at how we can protect the RMs from blame. Now you see?

ST tried to gloss over the damage when it reported that many of those laid off were at management level, but it kept clear of telling how many of these RMs were laid off.

I think the RMs who have been laid off should come together and fight DBS for wrongful dismissal and see if LSS and the PAP govt would take up their case. This is better than having LSS and PM saying they were disappointed and whatever bull shit.

LHL was on tv telling how disappointed he was that workers were laid off without the companies looking to see if there are alternatives to solving their problems. He said it would have been better for these companies to retrain these workers and find ways to retain them rather that throwing them out into the streets to add to the jobless population.

He had been making such a call for the past 5 to 8 years but now we know whether these businesses had believed in him or not. Even DBS has turned a deaf year to his words. What do you think we should do as sons and daughters of Singapore.

If first division bankers and businessmen are not listening to him, and keep losing matches in succession, what do you think is the normal course of action that must be taken on the head coach and manager? Do you think we should let them continue with the coaching and managing and see us lose more matches until we get relegated to the lower division?

We have been having lower division managers and coaches disguising as top level ones. No wonder we see them endorsing fake degree mills.

Time for Singaporeans to think hard and seriously make the effort to wake up from their slumber.

It is not just workers that do not have rights here in Singapore. In fact, it applies to all Singaporeans. To the elites, we are all ‘expendable’ items and not worthy of their attention.

I think the animals in our zoo have more rights and enjoy more protection than any of us.

MAybe another TKL can fight for their rights at HLP?

DBS knows that they will get away with the dismissal outright. By compensating at market rate of one month for one year’s service, they are not doing anything illegally to retrench workers.

In fact, I heard alot of companies are waiting to retrench workers to cut cost but they can’t do it during good times. Bad times are the best reasons for big coporations to downsize even though they are not severely affected yet.

21) alky

You are right and this is what I was trying to convey. Our rights in many areas are totally absent. It’s very sad isn’t it?

22) Gilbert

The problem is this. PAP govt has been harping on the importance of having a monthly variable component in a worker’s paycheck. We got the idea that most major businesses are already adopting this feature so that they can insulate themselves from having to exercise major staff clearouts in times of major economic setbacks.

We have been given the impression that medium and smaller enterprises were not receptive to this feature because when hard times hit them, layoff would be necessary instead of paycuts. The PAP govt has been tring to win these enterprises over for some time now but I am not sure about its success rate.

Now, with what DBS has done, it really is a very BIG slap on the face isn’t it? We now also know why DBS is in such deep shit. Mainly because it refuses to listen to good advise. The whole DBS decision making body must go together with its chairman and group of advisors. Really, it is second class management.

PM still got the cheek to talk about one party state. What if PAP becomes like DBS? Singaporeans ought to read deeper into such declarations. It means that the PAP is infallable, will be infallable and will never fall.

You believe?

I see this timely retrenchment came from DBS to rid off well-paid staff to be replaced by foreign talents with less-paid remunerations. It is also to divert our attention on the current uproar of DBS High-notes, minibonds and other impending failed structured products sold by them.

It should not come as a surprise to many of us that such action was taken by DBS. Citigroup, UBS, Morgan Stanley banks also cut, cut, cut their staff to remain alive… So, after some time, people will get used to the idea of trimming for survival.

Singapore Union is created to add in value for perks and not to fight for employees who are being retrenched unfairly. It is never for job protection that one joins in as a NTUC union but rather for the so-called facilities, rebates and perks one can benefit from the membership.

Lets not be fooled by all this capitalist moves and acts perpetuated by the ruling party. One should look at the source of the problem. Who are the real people behind DBS, who’s calling the shots, etc?

DBS has to put aside a big sum for the minibond fiasco. Therefore, it’s more likely that the 900 sacrificial lambs were made redundant to recover the losses. Take away this minibond loss, retrenchment wouldn’t come “so surprisingly” and probably far fewer staff would have to go in due course.

Lim Swee Say’s public expression came only days later after ST’s report of DBS’ intention. Is this a sign of loss for words, an order by his political master or simply another sleeper in his adviser role to DBS???

Whichever way, it’s the staff that will have to suffer simply because they do not have the bargaining power.

25) Singaporespirit

The picture is very clear for all to see but do you have any suggestions how this can be better managed?

What about the govt’s stand on wage adjusments before staff reduction? And staff reduction as a last resort?

What are these words for it they carry no meaning at all, never mind the lack of weight given to it by these businesses?

Is this not also a reality check for the PAP govt that their so-called standing amonst the elites of the world is dwindling, or, perhaps it wasn’t there at all?

Like Harrison says it (post #26) – “Lets not be fooled by all this capitalist moves and acts perpetuated by the ruling party.“.

I would also include self-serving and self-glorification aspects of deception.

PAP is already like DBS. Nevertheless, I implore all MPs to consider:

Repeal Section 17(2) of the Industrial Relations Act, so that at least unions can negotiate (as a right) the terms and conditions of termination and retrenchment of employees. Only then will employers think twice about retrenching employees without consultation.

check your email LIM Sway Si, maybe DBS already sent you the email to retrench staffs!

You are just too busy checking your CPF that you forgot to read them!

I think the economic crisis is worse than the so called “Experts” think it is. My first reaction to hearing the news was “Oh Oh,” this is a sign of things to come. Seriously, if DBS has to retrench people, what will that say for the rest of the businesses with allot less money?

Also think Richard Stanley and his team at DBS missed a wonderful opportunity to demonstrate some leadership by announcing they were taking pay cuts to save the bank money. But then again, it would set a dangerous precedent – leaders of other institutions might have to do the same rather than invent reasons why they should continue to get sky high salaries.

If by now we cant see through the complexities of a dominating one-party political party, then I think Singapore is doomed. Enough said.

29) Dr. Albert

You could be right!
Perhaps also because the PAP was spending so much time building its new website. Could it be the network crashed? and his mail lost in the process?

Really Sway Si, probably he could have played Robin the Sway Hoot, and came to the new jobless’s rescue before they were booted out.

Some possibilities to consider are:

Was DBS’ retrenchment exercise a calculated one?

It came before the ministry issued the guidelines.

Was it meant to ease other organizations to walk the retrenchment path?

Was it meant to show that for the benefit of the majority, it is alright to take some casualties?

Singapore has been known to be run like an MNC, so is retrenchment something that all Singaporeans should accept every few years?

Frankly speaking, Trade Unions have never been effective anywhere, in the long run. Any business facing dispute with a TU can simply call it a day and move elsewhere. At best, it can just help to tie the members over, during a lean period.

This recession will certainly hit the financial sector very hard. In these few weeks alone, many of my friends have been told they will lose their jobs before Christmas. And those who still have their jobs are bracing for the worst.

I really don’t know what to say and I don’t wish to embellish the situation by blabbering something silly – so most of the time, I just avoid them.

However, I strongly believe when terminating the services of ANY employee, it’s a bit like ending a relationship; it pays to do it right the first time, that way hopefully each party can close that painful chapter and move on very much in the way a farmer looks on with a mix of regret and hope with the passing and arrival of another season; but if you ambush people in their cubicle and give them 24 hours to ship out with a carton box; what kind of message are you actually broadcasting? What values and beliefs do you convey?

Even if you have “right” on your side; it still leaves a very bitter taste and this is never good in the long run. Its no good.

This is something ants cannot understand, but hopefully SOME humans can.

Life it seems goes on.

SD (Internet Liaison officer of the brotherhood)

Wow, DBS can just retrench like this wan ah.
I better go and join a onion.

Singaporedaddy:

Yes it seems that way isn’t it? That corporations will retrench/sever ties with their employees who have slough for them for decades helping them through the thick and thin.

I think the retrenchment is not so much on losing a job but also the feeling of being betrayed for staying loyal all thse years. One’s self worth is questioned and you do a stock take of what did you do wrong to deserve this? Maybe you should work harder and not talk back so much during management meeting. The self doubt tends to bite those who are retrenched.

Many take weeks some even months to recover as it is a deep slash at one’s self worth and confidence.

I have friends who were depressed for a few months hiding in their homes for fear of being embarassed by others. It is as though they bring the retrenchment upon themselves!

Singapore has to wake up to the fact that there is no longer any job security in this fast pace work environment. Work loyalty is no longer celebrated anymore as workers move from bank to bank for the feel of a few hundred dollars more.

Unions are there for show and only could not be depended to guarantee our jobs. The only sure guarantor of jobs is our skill sets and whether they are current to the work environment that we are in.

AS you have mentioned, more retrenchment will come and many will have their blackest Christmas and year end. Let us stay positive and sober in this tough time. Only the toughest will survive.

27)Gemami
Wish I could come out with original or substantial solutions to offer as I could only share some of my observations what things have already happened.

Singapore is changing very drastically, just in a year or two. I went to my local 7-Eleven, the counter staff is a Chinese national. I went to the petrol kiosk, the attendant is also a Chinese national. I went to NTUC supermarket, the cashier is a Filipino. I went to DBS, the counter is also a Filipino. My residence is also changing with all kinds of nationality. So, in my simple observation, our workforce is changing into multi-nationality because of wage competitveness as the main cause. So, our Government say it is for our own good that this changes take place that businesses can survive in this economic environment.

What else is there for us unless our Government change its mindset and value its people’s contribution to the ecomony and nation-building.

Hi singaporespirit,

Allow me to point out two observations:

1. with the relentless influx of FTs, which is supposed to help businesses keep their operating costs down, how much of this savings go to the consumers, you and I. Apparently, by keeping the business costs down, it did not stop prices from rising. So why the continuing need for FTs? Rubbish isn’t it?

2. you questioned what else can the people do except to wait for the govt to change its mindset. I say there is a lot the people can do. Firstly, we have to change our own mindsets and know that we can force the govt to accept our mindsets. This govt has been intimidating the people when in most democracies it is the people who intimidates their govt to act for them.

“So, our Government say it is for our own good that this changes take place that businesses can survive in this economic environment.”

Good for certain people (you know which group) and bad for certain people (you should know which group also).

It seems no matter how good your policies are intended to be, there are still things beyond control like this crisis. Whether you have foreigners or not, people still get retrenched.

As more people get retrenched, this frightening equation is going to play out in the number of local singaporeans who will get affected. It is interesting to see how they are going to juggle this difficult ball of “for our own good”.

Singaporedaddy,

This recession will certainly hit the financial sector very hard. You make it sound as if it will hit us the hardest, but as I see it ordinary people in other Asean countries seem to be getting the sticky end of the stick.

Firms come and go and so do people. You make it sound as if the latter owes the former a living.

Besides what do you think the government should be doing Smarty Pants? Besides promoting another one of Darkness crackbrained plans about bringing back the rubber band brigade etc. You seem very good at nitpicking on this or that, but I’ve noticed when it comes to concrete proposals you short.

Another thing, you have to be crazy to compare a relationship with a retrenchment, tell me Singaporedaddy when was the last time you signed up for a SDU program? Are you even married yet? Every Singaporean woman has a right to know just in case, you hand her the pink slip with a carton box.

Hahaha :) Hilarious on a monday.

gymrat

17/11/08

Hi Gilbert Goh & Gemami-I am not surprise as DBS new big boss is an Amercian from Citibank and he has to show bottomline next year and the only choice he has is to retrench staff. Perhaps, what he should do before retrenching staff, is to cut those top management costs especially big pay cheques and allowances and benefits (when I was a Senior Banker in the Swiss Bank, those Swiss big bosses had big pay cheques and huge allowances, I was one of the top after those Swiss nationals and we worked very hard to pay for their big pay cheques and huge allowances). I am sure we have good local bankers to do his job better.

“38) gemami on November 17th, 2008 11.54 am
1. with the relentless influx of FTs, which is supposed to help businesses keep their operating costs down, how much of this savings go to the consumers, you and I. Apparently, by keeping the business costs down, it did not stop prices from rising. So why the continuing need for FTs? Rubbish isn’t it?”

Hehe, you are beginning to sense something. Yes, figures are constantly shifting from variable to variable and this cannot be fully captured in academic economics but will be played out in real life applied economics. You just cannot fix your model in real life.

Who gains and who loses ? Which players has local advantage to operate here and which players do not ? And the distribution of benefits vs costs over this advantage.

Do not worry, they have plenty of talents to scratch their heads over this kind of problem. Are they going to act on it or are they going to sit tight because of their own “comfortable position”.

Even with my simple mind, I think that the influx of FTs bring great revenue to the Government’s coffer and prosperity to the businessmen without doubt. It is proven that it doesn’t help to bring down the cost of living for Singaporeans by and large. I opt to differ from the Government’s point of view.

Government has the mindset that we are little children who could not tell the right hand from the left. So, whatever feedbacks or suggestions from the public are conveniently thrown into the trash-bins. Unless, Government acts like responsible parent, these little children can never feel their present at all times, be it good or bad.

I

Our MOM/Union is just another barking dog which cannot do much but bark. What our Mr Lim want the businessman to do :

a) Inform the Union first, let the Union talk to the workers about retrenchment so that the Union will look good.

b) Send the worker to other training courses – whether job is available after the course is not their business but I have already do some thing for the retrenched workers.

c) DBS is having 1.68billion profit so it is going to turn bankrupt if they keep 900 staff, I dont think so but definitely the top guns will not enjoy their bonuses or perks. So it is better to sacrifice the 900 staff than their own benefits.

d) The government have set the precedent during SARS to retrench workers even though the companies are in good shape example SIA, ST etc etc

The government job is never have to take care of worker’s rights but their pro business measures will keep our ministers’ pay high as their pay are peg to the CEOs of private companies.

Simple as ABC

#42)

Guess you could be right but that does not mean we cannot work around it right? We have multi-million-dollar minds running the show which we must not forget.

Now about the retrenchment, does anybody out there knows how retrenchment is conducted? Is there any formula or guidelines from the govt or worker’s unions etc?

I feel there ought to be some fixed guidelines. .
Example:

a. FT first to go – because if the company fails then their services to that company must be seen as failures. They are supposed to be more talented than ordinary Singaporeans.

b. The highest level of management must go – because they not only fail to bring profit to the company but also are not able to sustain it under challenging conditions. In other word, not up to the mark to face challenges.

c. The company has to find alternative employments for those targeted to be retrenched before it can actually let that worker go. I’m sure this is not a problem with the Govt’s many job placement agencies which it has been crowing about. This will go a long way to protecting the interest of the worker, ensure his continued livelihood and prevent abuse by the company. The alternative employment offered by the company must pay in a range that does not go below 20% of the retrenched worker’s current salary package.

d. Over and above the retrenchment package offered to the retrenched worker, the company must give the worker three months advance notice prior to being retrenched. This wil allow the retrenched worker enough time to consider taking up the alternative job offered as well as for him to source for new alternatives of his own, where necessary.

Finally, make it a law that MPs cannot feign ignorance whenever a crisis arises.

Lee Bee Wah did not know about the dorm issue when a police officer was already broadcasting the news to residents at Serangoon. Phui ! ! !

PAP Govt did not see the financial crisis coming when it kept forecasting strong economic growth throughout the year and leading Singaporeans on a wild goose chase that led to the current gloom and doom. Phui ! ! !

Now LSS, apart from feling rich, does not know that the DBS workers would be retrenched even when it was broadcasted in broad day light and in bold prints – bigger than any caveat emptors on the investment brochures. Phui ! ! !

So how to blame the investors when a multi-million-dollar minister can miss the DBS retrenchment exercise. (ok, I deviated – cannot help it). Phui ! ! !

Maybe in future all Companies should consult LSS and NTUC before they hire, promote or fire any staff.

For goodness sake, It is a business enterprise and committed to deliver profits to their shareholders, which includes the Govt of Singapore.
Anyway the majority of those retrenched are MDs & VPs and other hotshots who will not be able to sell a single hedge fund or unit trust for the next 1-2 years.
Let the Bank conduct its business without all these political posturing to gain votes.

Hi gymrat @ #40

Look here! I am definitely not going to wait for the guillotine to come down while I play 10 green bottles standing on the wall. The way I see it, this recession will be here to stay for a very, very, very, very, very, very, very long time. And anyone who tells you different, just doesn’t know basic arithmetic or economics.

But I’ve got a plan B. You see I’ve never really been comfortable with the whole idea of being a salaried man. So sometime back ago. I came up with an escape plan. I want to go to Russia and start a waste recycling plant to re-process aircraft grade titanium. I’ve been preparing for it since last year by studying Russian and I’ve even mapped out all the regions where I can more or less get all this stuff and put it together under one roof to make the whole idea turn.

There’s just one problem, I don’t have any capital. I was discussing with some banks, but of late they seem to be preoccupied with their own problems. As for venture capitalist most of them seem to be cooling their heels.

All I need now is a tank of gas and off I go.

The best thing that govt can do right now is to give people like me access to my CPF money so that I can do my own business. Give me what I want and I’ve go away. There isn’t much there, but it’s not exactly nothing either. That would really help a whole lot to fill my tank up. After that I’ve just make it up as I go along.

SD (Internet Liaison officer of the brotherhood)

Why complain.This is all wayang.Dbs and ntuc is goverment.So just keep quiet and take it

Hi People,

Some random thoughts in the midst of a ‘mayhem’:

The SM has asked people who lost all or almost all their life-savings in some structured deposit schemes retailed by DBS and Morgan Stanley to “see things in the proper perspective”. Since then I have been trying to figure out what perspective there is left for people to see, when they have nothing left to their name. We don’t need leaders who can only dispense advice. For what we pay them, YES we do expect alot more than mere advice. My illiterate grandfather too can tell me that were he still alive.

The old guards of the ruling party established the PAP as a democratic pro-labour government. They won over the hearts and minds of the People and got into power on the shoulders of the working class. I hope the ‘young guards’ will not think of this pro-labour stand as just ‘passe’.

Our’s is a “government of the people, for the people and by the people”. So remember you still decide who will be your next government. For once do something for yourselves. Stop the talk. Action speaks louder. And be ONE on your common goals.

We don’t really need academically brilliant people to run the government when these are people who will only serve at an exhorbitant fee. We need educated, intelligent and caring people who have the mission to want to serve the people and who will be satisfied to serve with distinction so long as their basic needs are taken care of. The People I am sure will be more than happy to give them more than just their basic needs. The People will look after such leaders well and hold them in the highest regard.

Let those who care and ‘dare to show that they care’ for the people, step forth to be counted. Form an United Front of the People to negotiate on the People’s behalf. As the older and wiser generation often say, it would take a crisis of national proportion to know the motive of the people you have elected to look after you.

The People outnumber the Elites by 100:3. Why do we feel so helpless inspite of this? To solve or resolve our woes, we have to be united in purpose, stay focused and at all times rational in whatever action we take, and NOT fear when you know you are ‘fighting’ for justice.

We are born with no rights. We have to earn those rights and, often, at a price. Are you prepared to pay the price?

We want to be a people known to be caring, compassionate and ever-willing to share. We want to live happily and in harmony with one another. We don’t need to be world-class to achieve such simple goals in life. Only elites compete to be world-class and in the process flog the masses to make the elitist dream come true. And the elites are the one who will be glorified when it is People who make those ‘world-class’ dreams come true. They are the ones who will get to taste the fruit of your labour.

Remember the song: One People, One Nation, One Family. Indeed let this be our GOAL and not just so much effervescence whipped up by the festivity of an occasion.

Merdeka!

47) singaporedaddy

Not so much of a Plan B afterall. You’re ready, with new language in hand and all but you miscalculated on your tank of oil.

Is there a plan C?

In times of recession, I think the ministers need to be retrenched first. As it is, we are already having too many ministers in a small country like ours.

To Ho Cheow Seng:

I support what you have said and read your words with glistening tears in my eyes.

If SIngapore has many more true sons like you, we are indeed safe. But at last, most of us are fearful and cowardly as we are too sheltered and apathetic. The govt has so spoon fed us that we are nothing more than prawns in their hands. They have fed us the medicine of fear and hopelessness as without them we are nothing. Who can we turn to? The opposition? Surely not?

It is true that I can sense history is in the making as there is this uprising spirit I see in many of us here. People like Gemami, Patriot, Smallvice, Ho, Observer, Denilson, Gerald, Andrew, Tiredsingaporean, Singaporedaddy and many others all have this as[iration to have a better Singapore for ourselves, our children and children’s children.

We need to do things as a united body as all along the ruling party has broken up this spirit of gathering together as they know that unity means strength.

There is enough of talk already. Talk is useless. What we can do after talk is important. Count me in Ho for a better tomorrow!

Merdeka!

Hi Gilbert,

You asked who we can turn to and you answered yourself in the same line surely not the opposition.

Do you realise what you are saying? No offence, but aren’t you and I, and all others who feel differently from the PAP govt in the opposition camp as well?

We must not lump together the opposition for a political cause with those who oppose as a citizen of the land for better living conditions. We must differentiate this becase too often we have blurred this line, and even more often, it has been used to described us in the same vein as the opposition political parties..

I support the opposition but I do not support any opposition party at this point in time but I am in opposition to the manner in which my fellow countrymen are being treated.

On a personal level, I do not have much to complain about for myself but it is in seeing the reckless, mindless and sometimes nonchalant manner in which policies upon policies are being heaped upon us that makes me worry the most.

Seeing my neighbours, friends and relatives struggling to cope, I worry too that it affect me one of these days and I am not waiting around for it to come to me.

We need to help each other to turn things around.

Lim Swee Say coming out and offering his biting criticism of DBS’ decision to retrench is nothing more than the proverbial crocodile shedding its tears.

As if the retrenched staff are not taking it bad enough, he just had to go in and give them a kick in the teeth.

One of the biggest schlongs in the PAP’s wanking machinery, Goh Chok Tong, said before that he welcomes retrenchments every now and then. So, for Lim to come out with an ostensibly sincere “I-care” attitude is hard to gel.

After all, didn’t someone say that birds of a feather flock together?

Last I check, Lim was in the PAP and Goh Chok Tong was his big boss.

Something very serious is going to take place in singapore soon, something that the citizens are all against it and yet too weak to stop it, something that the 2 present alternative parties in parliament may not be able to do anything about it, something that is against the will of the people of singapore, something that not any external intervention can do to save the people from further suffering. . . . are we still singaporeans, sometime I just wonder.

Gemami/Tiredsingapore:

Thanks for the comments.

YA I also feel the the ground swelling is quite solid. Every five persons I spoke to, there are at least three that are verbal in their protests but whether that turned into votes against the ruling party I am unsure.

Most Singaporeans associated anti-establishment as pro-govt and that is not cool to them as the opposition camp is seen as unprofessional, rebellious and uncool. Unless Singaporeans learn to realise that by going against the grain it is not pro-oppostion but also very pro-Singapore. We need to de-brainwashed those thoughts in us so that we can stir up moe nationalistic people. I am sure we have many who love their country too much for it to go down the drain.

If I am the PAP govt I am very confident of victory for the coming GE and even the next one as:

1. There is no credible opposition yet – an Obama who can stir and move the country as never before has yet to arrive.

2. There is no unity of forces pulling those dissidents together to speak as one voice not so much as to oppose the govt but more to let others know that we love the country too much to see it goes this way. A new leader needs to rise up fast among us.

3. There is still plenty of apathetic people floating around the country. They are conditioned to listen and obey as there is no other way and even then there is nothing you can do otherwise. When this sunk in, all is lost. That is why the HLP minibond protest is so important for our country to learn to fight on in spite of the result.

4. There is absolute power in the hands of the ruling party. It is difficult to break this monopolistic chain but through the efforts of a few good men I am sure that Yes We can! People Like Obama, Mendela, Luther King and Anwar Ibrahim inspired me.

5. There is too much focus on economic prosperity so much so that when we are doing well we left everything in the hands of the govt. However, this philosophy may backfire on them as when they can’t deliver, they will face the music soon.

Let us inspire to do great things for our country however minute it is.

Over the past 40 years, there was an understanding or a social contract between the labour movement and the government:

1. Singapore does not have any minimum wage or unemployment insurance
2. The government will grow the economy to ensure that there is job for everyone
3. Retrenchment should be avoided by the use of flexible wages, and CPF cut.

The retrenchment of 500 staff (estimated) is a blow to this social contract.

I hope that thisspecial “Singapore system” is not practical, and we should consider the following:

1. minimum wage
2. unemployment insurance or other practical help (such as withdrawal of CPF or low interest loan to retrenched workers).

Here are my suggestions:

http://tankinlian.blogspot.com/2008/11/retrenchment-and-its-impact-on.html
http://tankinlian.blogspot.com/2008/11/retrenchment-loan.html

Latest news:

TWo town councils have invested $12 million of the conservancy fees into the minibond trust.

I have a friend working in Amex and although a similar exercise was carried out in this foreign bank a few weeks ago, where mostly the top executives , were axed, they were given 3 months notice. They did not need to pack and go immediately, and were encouraged by the management to come to the office if they want to and to use the 3 months to search for something suitable. They were also linked up with regional and international head-hunters. This is a far cry from how the bank of Singapore dealt with its staff. On top of giving short notices, they asked to vacate their offices immediately. There was no room for closure.

I would be very pissed if Lim Swee Say said something to the effect of sympathising with the workers while accepting that DBS management’s decision to retrench was inevitable.

But he didn’t. He launched a scathing attack at DBS – and you know what that means. Govt-linked bank attacked by a member of parliament of the same ruling party.

The last time Lim Swee Say spewed venom at Tan Kin Lian resulted in one thing – Kin Lian’s subsequent exit from Income.

You might think that Kin Lian is a hero and all. Well, he probably is to a certain extent. After all, fighting for the rights of people, of the unfortunate ones who lost money to financial scams, is always heroic. But one should note that even in his time as Income CEO, he wants to be hero. http://www.income.com.sg was like his homepage. Everywhere you see on Income’s website is Tan Kin Lian. Ask Mr Tan this, Ask Mr Tan that…. he built this personality cult and he’s not about to let it go even as he eventually pulls out of Income.

So with someone with such a big ego, how to let him continue? Someone who wants to be in the spotlight as a hero does so for selfish reasons. And Lim Swee Say was right in his judgement of him.

I do hope that with LSS’s bite at DBS, DBS CEO – or some really, really big shot up there, would have to take the exit soon. This is the power of LSS. For God’s sake, he looks like a gangster (you can tell from the way he articulates his speeches in English – but that’s what’s so terribly unique about him amongst the scholarly elite) who’s about to beat up any misbehaving management!

Welcome to Singapore. You are a mere cog in the machinery, a slave to the economy. You have no rights. NTUC is a phony union. Brace yourselves for harder times. That’s all and good day.

Uniquely Singapore !!! We do it ‘My Way’ – as long as it works [and suits Pappies] . Put it together side by side with what MM says – Singapore Inc.’s recipe (no need by-elections, no need this no need that etc.)

Action speaks louder, MUCH LOUDER than their words…

So, Singaporeans wake up wake up wake up your bloody idea… Dont whine and whine and whine – brings you to NO-WHERE..Rip Van Winkle woke up millenias ago man.

But one should note that even in his time as Income CEO, he wants to be hero. http://www.income.com.sg was like his homepage. Everywhere you see on Income’s website is Tan Kin Lian. Ask Mr Tan this, Ask Mr Tan that…. he built this personality cult and he’s not about to let it go even as he eventually pulls out of Income. – sanctus (#60)

Please refrain from character assassination. What you are saying doesn’t make sense because that is just basic corporate marketing strategy in brand building. Who else but the CEO to lead on brand building? If you were the CEO of NTUC Income, would you have done anything different?

Tan Kin Lian seeking attention? Want to be hero? Who don’t want? It is human.. It is those that go the path of evil that one should avoid! Lim Sway Lang has so much resources on his grip, but all he did is just shoot a few words and expect people to remember that and vote for him in the next election ( dream on)!

Sway Lang is a elite gangster? PAPPY gang which one is not licensed gangster?! Looking at the old days mobster, collect protection money but offer no protection, filling up their pockets with commoner money, open gamble dens, threaten people that don’t obey etc! I almost see parallel in both gang! You were damn right they are gangster! You wait for some big shot in DBS to be shot down? Maybe you should wait for Sway Lang to lead the union to hang PIG’s Head on the main entrances of all DBS branches! (referring to no.60 Sanctus)

hero require guts and belief! Whoever that dare cross path with the pappy, I call that guts! And even if what Tan Kin Lian doing today is to build his tomorrow political reputation, what’s wrong with that? Isn’t that what pappy want to see? Who always complain no descent opposition to challenge them?! They are getting what they wished for!

The way I look at it, this is only the start! More and more strong opposition from the younger generation will be out to replace them! This is because during the last election, WP had successfully shown the younger generation that there isn’t anything to afraid anymore. They had casted the first stone and more will come from Singapore itself! If you ask me did opposition lose the last election. I say, they had bring out the foundation for the future oppsition!

Ask yourself this question, what is the reason to change the pappy old guards when they are already proven formula? Afraid old man down, crown prince might not be able to fix them? Even old man himself said that pappy will eventually split from inside! Is this the reason why old pappy guards were stripped off and change it to tv new generation young pappy that prove to be “rice bucket” even till now!!

maybe our biopolis should do some research on how to remove parasites like the current young “rich bucket”. Personally for me, I always ask myself did I do enough to justify my monthly pay roll! And I wonder if that even cross the mind of those young pappy that being paid to follow order! High class monkeys! With high grade peanuts (so say GCT wife)!

I say this recession come just on time, to prove and show how incompetent the young monkeys can be! Better than opposition wasting time talking them down during election time!

I think old man and his family will start to have their sleepless night, and who know maybe JBJ will invite him to drink tea and play majong one of these Night! There goes one of Singapore bigger headache!

The Son: Papa, why now you asked me to change into a 1 party system when there are already 2 other elected parties inside our parliaments, and will the people get angry and start a protest against us?

The Father: Stupid Son, how many times must I tell you, in politics one cannot afford to be a gentleman, the dirtier you are, the more success you will be. So, don’t worry abt the 2 opp MPs, when my 1 party system takes effect, they will be automatically converted as one of our party member, and who is still the boss here? stupid son!

The Son: and what about the people?

The Father: stupid son again, how long have you been with me in office? 4? 5 years? since when did you ever see any riot or street protest in singapore? these are not people, they are just digits to me to play around with, where do they have the time to protest when I had already made them so busy working their arsses out just to make barely enough to settle those monthly bills created by me?

The Son: But, but . . . !

The Father: No more buts or do I have to trouble ah lau Goh again, you know he is busy training for his golf games and I need him to built rapport with all the big consortiums as we have some more companies scheduled for auctions later, so no more buts or I will kick your butts!

Retrenchment is not the issue here.

DBS is GLC, and therefore PAP because PAP is govt and govt is PAP. Right?

NTUC is PAP – remember symbiotic relationship?

Lim Swee Say is PAP minister.

Retrenchment is inevitable. Workers should prepare for it. The PAP govt has said it. The NTUC has said it. Lim Swee Say himself has said it.

So the real issue is Lim Swee Say’s “face”, not the interest of the retrenched. By not consulting him before carrying out the retrenchment exercise, the DBS Chairman has publicly given Lim Swee Say a big slap on the face. So, having lost face so publicly, he had to react the way he did. Pity the guy.

69) bohbianlah

Have you not noticed the texture of LIM Sway Lang face? I think his face kanna “CLOSE DOOR” slapped by LAN Jiao Long don’t know how many time! Layers of skin over stack each other. Take note of that next time in the office.

Btw did you also noticed Mah Bao Lan face? Was like being rammed by a bullet train. No wonder no one want to join PAPPY & Co despite the world class pay.

WAYANG!! This is all a show by the union who are run by the govt for the govt and that is PAP!

All talk and no action. Its just like a slap on DBS hand. Ok dont do it again. Want to retrench , its okay but let me know la!

Now i got to pretend to scold you in public. Never mind this is singapore after one week everyone will forget, This is singapore ma must pretend to show I am angry so the people will think that we care. But not too worry, Retrenchment benefits no tax and this month your cpf statement also will show increase!! Ooops, I also better check my cpf statement!

Ref to 64) smallvice585

CEO of Microsoft doesn’t slap Bill Gates presence everywhere. Tan Kin Lian shamelessly marketed himself as a mascot, a founder, an idol. He became NTUC Income. NTUC Income became him. That’s disturbing.

I mean you could do that if Income is founded by you and owned by you. But it’s not. Income is a co-operative.

I am sure the heroic things he did in helping the common people get back their earnings squandered away through failed investments have won support. But look, if he still were the CEO of Income, how many of us could be sure he would’ve done the same?

sanctus (#72),

Please refrain from character assassination. This is just corporate marketing strategy and leadership style. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

i do not for one second believe tat the elites had no knowledge of the dbs retrenchment. Just who r they trying to kid?

Sanctus,

You may have knowledge of things that others don’t have. Now, to give your words more credibility, why dun you let others know who you are instead of hiding behind a nick? I’m sorry, but I think if you wanna say something so strongly negative about a person (whether it is true or false), the gentlemanly thing to do is to at least let the target know who is attacking him.

How come WP, SDP and NSP have not spoken out against the retrenchment? If it is not their job to do so, whose job is it?

To #76 – I am not attacking TKL per se. I recognised his virtues and commitment to help those affected. But I also brought out some important points on how he ran Income. And then I got accused of character assassination.

Look at this page. Almost everyone is lamblasting LSS, PAP, NTUC and PAP ministers. Character assassination? More like political holocaust!

I am quite anti-establishment myself. But I think this issue about a PAP minister condemning DBS should be encouraged. A single party system must learn to self-correct – otherwise it will self-destruct. The author of this article insists that NTUC should look inwards. But if you consider DBS, however privatized, to still be a unit of the PAP empire, then the very fact that LSS shot down DBS for ruining the union-management relationship is an attempt at self-correction.

Speaking as a former Citibank intern, did you guys get the news that Citigroup has just retrenched 53,000 people world wide?

In recent years, DBS has been working very hard to model itself on Citigroup. Many of the top managers, including current CEO, Richard Stanley are DBS people. So, it makes me wonder if DBS is learning the right things from Citigroup like good customer service or are they learning the wrong things -ie swinging the heavy ax and lose lending practices. Makes you wonder.

69)Tiredsingaporean:

Your satirical joke jolted me into pieces – a very good one brother!

Hi sanctus,

I do not know you but I cannot standby and watch while you go lambasting Mr Tan Kin Lian as if you have a sword to grind with him.

Now, if Mr Tan is as bad as you make him out to be when he was CEO of NTUC, how about showing the same level of disdain toward PAP’s Mr Tharman Shamugaratnan?

Mr Tharman was a convict, convicted under the official secrets act while he was director of MAS. The PAP was able to ‘move on’ with his conviction, ignore it, gave him a place in PAP, and mind you a very high place at that, got back his job at MAS with very a much improved package with autonomous authority over the same institution that charged him for revealing secret information and being made the Minister for Finance that looks after our national reserves.

You might counter-suggest that we should judge people for what they are doing now rather than what they had done and I would be the first to agree with you.

Whether I agree with your assessment of Mr Tan or not is not my intention in this post. All I know is that Mr Tan stepped forward when all the others in higher places have turned their backs and ran away. We cannot ignore this fact and this fact alone gives immense credit to Mr Tan. Thousands upon thousands have found it comfortable to lean on his shoulders and these thousands, for whatever reasons you may suggest otherwise, cannot be wrong.

Furthermore, if Mr Tan is as self-serving and attention grabbing like you claim he is, I do not doubt for one moment that the PAP machinery will let him do what he has been doing thus far. The fact that the PAP machinery did nothing to him suggests that he is doing something right for the community of depressed investors which even the PAP found it not necessary to entertain.

I applaud Mr Tan Kin Lian for being so quick off the block in helping the misled investors when others in higher office were still in shock and did not know how to react.

I believe it was because of his swift reaction that prevented the Opposition from making it an issue of their own and thus prevented a more direct confrontation between Opposition-led investors against the ruling PAP govt. The cost of such confrontion could be tragic in its most extreme sense, and, who is to say it won’t happen? Money is the root of all evil and because of money, it can lead one to misplaced sanity and may even kill for or because of it.

Mr Tan Kin Lian is a true son and a true hero to the people of Singapore and no one can dispute this.

referring everyone assinated the character of PAPPY & Co. Now, first of don’t forget that they are ministers and people actually voted them to work for us (so call Public Servant)! Set aside high pay of them, I do feel that most people here think their actions so far do not match their Job Description ( also the reason why there is this TOC in the first place).

Why people defended Tan Kin Lian because his action gave some comfort to those that lost their years of hard earned money. It is not really about if he really can get back that money from DBS (that will be abit too much to ask for a commoner like him now). It is about, lending a ear and giving people advices on what is their options that is telling these cheated investors that it is not the end of the road for them. Unless you want more people jump the MRT tracks or from building. Tan Kin Lian provide this comfort when it should really be the job of people who Singapore had voted them!

Just think about the last time when your friend is in trouble, you sat with him in the kopi thiam and listen to him and sharing your experience with him that makes him feel more comfortable. Human is a very emotional creature that make us feel very insecure at time. At some point each of us need spiriture support more than materials. I think basic issue most people here disagree with is that what PAPPY & Co had turned Singapore into. We don’t visit out relative anymore during normal day except Chinese new year. Some time even prefer work on Chinese new year rather than visit out relative. PAPPY policies had effectively put a further distance between it people which is very amazing for a small country like Singapore. Now, in political point of view, this is very good for the government when people only care about themselve. At least you don’t have people gang up and strike against them. But in long run this city people will become cold and unforgiving and there will be social collaspe within the people.

Remember this “no man is an island” and for this logic, I don’t really believe PAP can be anything if Singapore people don’t give a damn about them!

81) gemami on November 18th, 2008 7.54 am
“sanctus”

One keeps wondering if those comments from this sanctus against TKL is a plot to distract the unity of all these mini bonds victims?

“santus”
Lets leave him alone. IGNORE him. The more we respond the more we allowed him to achieve what he sets out to do.
When we DON’T RESPOND, he will definitely knows – HE IS TALKING TO HIM SELF AND HE IS TALKING TO THE WALL. And who does this, we all know ITS A MAD MAN AND A FOOL. Only a fool talks to himself , hahaha !!!

Oh tiredsingaporean, everything around us today is a plot in itself.

Tried and tested: this is PAP’s motto all along and at times like this when the financial turmoil is on the verge of consuming the whole nation, the motto is set in motion at full force.

The tried and tested solution that the PAP always uses is to blow the smoke over other areas.

We have seen them trying to smokescreen it over with the minority PM issue, Euthanasia topic, mobilising the Election department, Town Council sinking funds and now Tan Kin Lian and TOC.

See? When one topic doesn’t work, hop on to the next and the next and the next and when it still doesn’t work, select one guinea pig, scold him, and turn him into the devil manifested into human form, and tell the world the devil about him.

TKL might be too big a fish to handle and that is why the clear message to TOC that it is part of their target, together with TKL.

84) Jaimz mini-Bond

You’re talking about that man who fed himself to the white tigers right?

sanctus:

Re: Microsoft & Bill Gates. You kidding me right?

Don’t you find it strange then that if you ask the average people on the street: “Who would you think of first if I say Microsoft?”, the answer would most probably be “Bill Gates” and not “Paul Allen”?

85) gemami on November 18th, 2008 2.55 pm
Oh tiredsingaporean, everything around us today is a plot in itse

Very very sad indeed to live in this kind place once called our nation singapore, everything is now fake, plastics, pretentious, unreal and worse still, they try to imitate each other . . . .sigh!

To Gemami
#85..
Yea yea. ’santus’ reminds me of the guy who fed himself to the tiger.. [rather unfortunate . . but really what can you do ? I mean , the crowd at that time couldnt do anything to save. True they did something, but not 'a' something that can save him].

18/11/08

Hi Gilbert Goh & Gemami-Time for us to get rid of these Foreign Talens (FT) of which bulk of them are second and third classes, and they cannot replace people like us Singapore born Singaporeans, and they are using Singapore as a steping stone for a third country after getting the Singapore passport (bulk from China and let us ponder are they really better than us or those AngMohs who are running our governent owned big companies like DBS Bank which we have seen its CEO has been Foreign Talents (they come and go and look at its Bottomline-are these Angmohs really magicians and capable making real huge profits and not resorting to retrenchment. I have written on this Foreign Talents subject on Discuss Singapore since 2001.

Time for the PAP government to fine tune its Foreign Talent policy which has been flaws and going all out to make Singapore more comfortable for Singapore Born Singaporeans whom are still thinking of migrating to third countries like Australia,New Zealand,Canada, USA or even in Malayisa and Thailand (here I refer to the 10% who can migrate and the PAP government must go all out to tell them to remain in Singapore and Singapore is our only place call Home, and get rid of its BOH CHAP attitude. Yes, Singapore is a great Home and has been a great Home for all Singapore Born including myself who has a 5room HDB and still struggling after I lost everything in 1997 Asia Financial Crisis. Let us all come together and make our Singapore a Great Home especially the PAP government and its MPs (also the 2 Opposition MPs and Ms Sylvia Lim)

18/11/08

Hi Gilbert & Gemami-We can only continue to write on the internet to create conscious among Singaporeans and pray , and TOC is a good www for all of us. The internet is a Deep Space and millions have access to (even Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew in one of his book has acknowledged this). Bioth our neighbours Malaysia and Thailand where their opposition parties use the internet and the same with USA President Elect Obama (he is just like us nothing specialy despite having a Harvard law degree, so what and in Singapore we hundreds of our own Singapore “Obamas” in the PAP ie the elite and very highly educated but are they really street smart and my anwer is No. The same for our Singapore Opposition parties and their leaders are not street smarts either and we have seen the SDP headed by Dr Chee and his gang are Running Dogs of foreign NGOs and taking monies from them (Dr Chee’s Phd is nothing outstanding and when Chiam first introduced him, I told my fellow friends in the Singapore bankiong industry who asked me this “woh Chiam got himself a Big Fish with Phd and I told them his Phd is a very bottom one and not outstanding and relevant and we saw he back stabbed Chiam”

My question is simply this.If a big bank like DBS which is government running and afflilated ot the government does not give a shit and dumps people on the streets what os the government going ot do when other companies do likewise!

They will tell the government if DBS can do it so we can also. So what are you going to say now PAP government to my honest and simple question?

86) Amused on November 18th, 2008 3.34 pm

sanctus:

Re: Microsoft & Bill Gates. You kidding me right?

Don’t you find it strange then that if you ask the average people on the street: “Who would you think of first if I say Microsoft?”, the answer would most probably be “Bill Gates” and not “Paul Allen”?

Yes, Bill is synonymous with Microsoft. In fact, the latest Vista ads that flopped featured Bill the man in both installments.

Well, I will put it down to envy. If Mr Tan had failed, the ruling party would have laughed at him. Now that his actions have yielded some results, directly and otherwise, they start casting doubts about his intent and integrity. If he had donned white, I am sure the media would be full of praise for his actions.

Most banks have started some form of restructuring and/or retrenchment, mostly on small scale to avoid publicity. It is definitely easier to write off as much costs and losses this year since results are not expected to be good anyway, Apart from DBS, many foreign banks have already started doing so over the past weeks…….Heard that ING and RZB did theirs last week….

34) gemami on November 19th, 2008 7.26 am

Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

The Shitty Times (online) must be following TOC very closely.

It had copied my post (#81 above) and posted it as a reply to Chua Sheng Yang’s ST forum page letter under the heading, ‘Questions on investment products rally’ in its online portal

It had changed the addressee’s name from ‘Sanctus’ to ‘Dear Chua Sheng Yang’ and signed off as ‘Concerned Citizen’.

Guess what? After I posted my outrage in another thread here in TOC, it immediately took off the post.

It is clear that my post was a reply to ‘Sanctus’ under the DBS retrenchment thread. How in the world did it became a reply to CSY’s forum page letter, only the Shitty Times will know.

Some more can sign me off as a ‘Concerned Citizen’. Do you think I am concern with rubbish scribbled by a dog?

Phui! x10 – so much for being a credible news source – Phui! x another 10.

btw, thanks for showing the world that TOC is more credible than anyone may think otherwise.

/// 64) smallvice585 on November 17th, 2008 7.09 pm
Who else but the CEO to lead on brand building? If you were the CEO of NTUC Income, would you have done anything different? ///

Not true. Depends on who the CEO is, how photogenic and how well he or she speaks. Frankly, now that sanctus has brought this up (I am not sanctus and I do not know him from Adam – so don’t get sanctimonious with me), I had the impression that the former CEO of NTUC Income was doing the company a big disfavour when he appeared so often on its ads. Each time the ad appear, I thought to myself – this guy can’t speak well, can’t pronounce well and squints his eyes every few seconds. Instead of drumming up businesses for Income, I think he put off potential customers.

Now, please note that I have refrain from personal attacks – just giving my observations which happened to be closer to sanctus’. I have no axes or swords or parangs to grind. Just stating what went through my mind when I saw those ads. The only positive about those ads is that it saved the companies some money instead of using professionals artistes. But I think it would be money well spent if more appealing faces and more professional voice-over were used.

Referring to 95):
Personally I have to disagree with this observation. NTUC although so called union, it is actually a self selling brand that do not need much pomotion (meaning if you buy any products from them, you buy from them which mainly it is cheap compared to other service provider).

Second to above, who will be more appropriate for it CEO to come out since this is a union based organisation. I think at that time the impression Tan Kin Lian given to me is that he is trying to project himself as a union leader rather than CEO of a company. I guess it is the jacket and tie that says otherwise. Then again, he is the CEO!

To be honest, I am very comfortable with NTUC pricing on the car insurance but not the claim process. It can really piss you off at time! However, I must say that NTUC policy is only benefitial to driver who are discipline in long run. As a matter of fact, it change the way I drive especially I have a family now. This I believe it is still fair and should be credited to Tan Kin Lian who go by the middle path.

DBS is not losing money. It is only making less in the 3rd quarter yet they choose to retrench 900 staff. To me DBS and for that matter many other GLCs and TLCs their main aim is to make as much money as possible even in difficult times. Surely in this difficult time, a modest profit will suffice. But unfortunately a modest profit is not enough for many companies, especially GLCs. Agree, companies need to make money inorder to survive and to reinvest etc, but during this very difficult time, why can’t DBS accept a smaller profit?. I can only describe it as greed.
The current chairman of DBS was the chairman of another large GLC during SARS time. He also did the same thing there by using the dreadful axe to retrench a large number of staff. Looks like he carry the big sinful axe wherever he goes.

DBS retrenchment is a ploy and plot by the new ang moh ceo.
as usual, new ceo would want to bring in their own people. find a reason to get rid of high level staff is difficult but this presents the opportunity. He just take actions and whack a good 900 staff. so later he can tell mgt that he save so much and so much for the year from retrenchment and blah blah blah or he can say he got budget to hire so and so.

this is the pure ang moh style. DBS should get rid of this new CEO and put a local guy or asia guy there. furthermore, he is from morgan stanley, a US failure investment house and cheat investment company.

SACK HIM!!!

I followed the last few comments closely and saw that there was some disagreement about how TKL was portrayed. You all cornered Sanctus and he was made to defend himself.

This site will be great if we have divergent views – pro or anti establishment. If we have 90% anti-establishment bloggers here this site may just become a ordinary site not a solid one I am afraid. A great site gives allowance to other views however different it can be.

Again we all have divergent views. If we can’t agreed we ought to respect each other’s views. PAP has so far showed us that they prefer one-party politics meaning they want to have their own rights and views. Do we want to go along that pathway?

Let us show mutual respect to each other here. Visitors to TOC may be pro or anti-government so let us welcome everyone here.

Obama has made me learned to be magninamous – he told the crowd in his acceptance speech that he will be the President even for those that did not vote for him.

This site will be great if we have divergent views – pro or anti establishment. If we have 90% anti-establishment bloggers here this site may just become a ordinary site not a solid one I am afraid. A great site gives allowance to other views however different it can be. – Gilbert Goh

Eh! If Singapore got so many pro-PAP people, how come they don’t come to TOC and post?

100) smallvice585

This is not the time to play hero mah. PAP cannons already misfiring, better to take cover. I think they also got some brains lah. They know a good thing when they see one but when they see so many bad things, better hide their faces first – so malu right?

You want to know why no pro-PAP coming here to post? They are still thinking what to write here, all the time their speeches are all pre-written by a pool of professional script writers, they dunno how to write so they just read. Most of them are new and their brains are all “brand new” never used before!

wahahahas..
they fear…

come to think of it, the whole party actually consists of a handful of old and damaged brains and a large pool of new brains, trying to brainwash an entire nation of working brains!

I think there is a mistake somewhere, minibonds are not issued by DBS but other Financial Institutions, there is the other, Pinnacle Notes issued by other local banks. To put it simply, most Financial Institutions are somewhat in this mess, nobody expected a reputable investment bank to simply collapse overnight.

Moreover, retrenchment is not only seen in DBS, it is happening in almost every Bank, not only the Banking Industry is affected but many other industries are all facing the AXE.

You cannot expect to stay in a job for long if you refuse to upgrade and acquire new skills, it is only fair for the incapable to be replaced.

It is recession, wake up. Everybody is in trouble.

Do you guys observed that eversince the start of all these world financial crisis and recession kicks in, all those MPs seems to be behaving very still and quiet, very unlikely of them from before when they used to be very loud even when some small little positive things happened in singapore, everyone would just jumped out all together into the lamplight as though they’ve discovered an oil well in singapore. Goodness, now I know what effect $$$ can do to a person in extreme time.

Warning to DBS Management for being evil: Karma doing its work:

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20090129/tap-dbs-ceo-c3bb44c.html

Time to short DBS shares!

I am sure DBS Group’s CEO Richard Stanley would be shocked if he learned that his medisave does not cover leukemia .

The problems with OCBC is even worst. They don’t pay but ask you to leave.
For those people in this industry will know.

http://forums.asiaone.com/showthread.php?p=217059#post217059