Andrew Loh / Deputy Editor
Mr Goh Meng Seng, who translated Mr Tan Kin Lian’s speech to Chinese at Speakers’ Corner, later shared his views on the structured products saga. He compared Singapore with Hong Kong, where he spends some of his time.
“We’ve sent in the petitions but so far there have been no response,” he said in Chinese, referring to the three petitions which have been sent to the authorities by Mr Tan so far. Saying that the Hong Kong government has been more pro-active in dealing with similar complaints there, the Singapore government, on the other hand, has been slow to take action on the issue, especially in investigating potential wrong-doings by the financial institutions.
Referring to Hong Kong, Mr Goh said, “The first [thing that the Hong Kong government did] was to set up an independent place for people to complain. They don’t push you to the banks or the financial institutions.”
As to why the Singapore government has not done the same, he said that it is because there are no opposition members to provide a check and balance on the government. “If the government does not want to do it, the Parliament will not say anything,” he told the crowd.
Switching between Chinese and English, Mr Goh urged the affected investors not to give up. If they did, he said, “one social injustice will be done in this instance.” He said that, in his view, there can be only two things which investors can do to get some resolution: one, investors should see their Members of Parliament (MP) and make their complaints known to them. “Go to their Meet the People Sessions,” he said. “Go every week because they have their MPS every week, whether they are MPs from the opposition or the ruling party!”
The second option, he said, is to take the legal route and go to the courts. However, he said that would not be the preferred course of action. “Once this issue reaches the courts, it will not only affect the financial institutions but also Singapore’s reputation as a financial hub.” He advised that legal action must be the last resort as it also can be very costly.
Mr Goh added, “At this moment, we do not have any alternatives. We have exhausted all our alternatives, even those [given] by the government and MAS.” He asked if investors still have confidence in the authorities. “A lot of people have come to me and said they do not have confidence in them.”
Getting to the bottom of the issue is in Singapore’s interest, he explained. “[It] helps us to be stronger as a financial hub in future,” he said in English. “You cannot base [being] a financial hub merely on money, you cannot base [being] a financial hub which only takes care of the financial institutions because the confidence is not merely from them. It’s also from the investors.”
“You want to be financial hub of this region, you have to keep the confidence of not only the financial institutions but also investors like all of you,” he told the audience.
“So you have to pressure the government to do what is right,” he said. “A full investigation into the issue.
Videos of Mr Goh’s speech:
Part One:
Part Two:
———
Even if there is no response from now till eternity, what can singaporeans do?
HK is not SG.
CHANGE is not so easy.
Many singaporeans are Apathetic.
Many singaporeans are Passive.
Many singaporeans affected by the investment boo boo will not sign the petition.
Many singaporeans are kia.
So, given all these doom mindsets, why should people waste time and effort to fight for these?
I cannot understand.
Activists should try their luck in HK or TW elsewhere.
Please don’t waste time on those who are apathetically hopeless.
Aunty Apathy,
A movement always starts with one man and thousand, if not millions, of apathetic people who have resigned to their fate. But people are not truly dead inside. If you are really apathetic, why are you even responding to this post? Get my point?
I am definitely not a party spoiler. Singaporeans by and large are a pathetic bunch – ungraceful, lack of civic-consciousness, and worst of all self serving kiasi’s.
To all volunteer-avtivists, while I really salute you all on your hardwork and selfless efforts, but is it worth it ? If say, you have succeeded (very very tough), what do you really gain ??? And what you gained is for whom???
To all volunteer-avtivists, while I really salute you all on your hardwork and selfless efforts, but is it worth it ? If say, you have succeeded (very very tough), what do you really gain ??? And what you gained is for whom??? – No Cowsense (#4)
Go read-up Maslow’s Hierachy of Needs. Apparently, you are still stuck at the bottom of the hierarchy.
To smallvice585
Apparently you are a great worshipper of this Maslow’s hierachy which do not not necessary apllies to all mankind, please bear in mind.
But it does looks to me you have a great percuniary interest here. I suppose one can say also there is no such thing as a free lunch.
Despite their hopelessness , I am gonna help our Apathetic and Jobless how to GET OUT OF UnEmployment:
If you are unemployed , I have a suggestion to make you not UnEmployed. Hope to hear comments to see if my suggestion is correct or not:
The ‘Solution’ : Nothing novel or great. But still an idea. Tell me is this is correct :
On paper unemployment rate means what?
To me, it means number of people :
– either not being employed after a certain number of months in a row or
– someone not registered with a business.
There you have it. The ‘solution’ is right in front of you – if more JOBLESS people go and register a business , either sole proprietorship or pte ltd or LLC , he is officially not UNEMPLOYED ?
How to encourage people to register :
1. show storys many storys about how young people go from rags to riches. Try not to show the failures examples.
2. continuous story telling is key. every week and every now and then , tell this story, newer stories. Paint the beautiful picture.
3. Have more tv programs to tell the success stories and less failure stories.
4. Repetition is important.
There you have it. My proposed ‘solution’ to show a lower unemployment rate.
Feel free to comment if this is feasible.
Caveat Emptor: register a business may cost only a few tens of dollars or so. Registered business need not have any business activity eg. due to no business. Also no need a office. So, a business boss owner need not earn any cent from his business and can this be considered employment? You tell me. So, no guarantee that you will have earnings even when you are a business owner and self-employed.
5) smallvice585 on November 16th, 2008 11.52 am )
Go read-up Maslow’s Hierachy of Needs. Apparently, you are still stuck at the bottom of the hierarchy.
———————————————————-
What Maslow espoused, that is applicable in the sg context, is essentially that
people who have not satisfied the basic needs lower in the hierarchy cannot begin to start achieving their ideals. Those in the lower hierarchy are trying only to meet their daily needs like Securing their jobs, paying their home lease, Pay And Pay the electricity bills, Pay And Pay the Transport fares, Pay And Pay the fines and fees and goods and service tax. People in this state are Self Preservatory. They wont even sign the petition when hurt directly.
No Cowsense (#6)
Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs is a well-established theory in psychology.
Win me on grounds on reasoning. Losers engage in character attack.
10) gemami on November 16th, 2008 12.17 pm 7) Aunty Apathy
I have a description for your type that I would rather not say out loud over here (there could be children reading this with their parents, have to respect them).
However, this is as best as I can decribed it without offending the little ones: Here it goes,
Your type is like the poor man who jumped into the white tigers encasement to give the white tigers their free lunch. Is there a word for this sort of behaviour?
The reason why so many singaporeans are still suffering till today is also caused by many who still having this sort of mentality “What can we do, every one of us also kenna what” see! this id exactly what our old fox longing to hear all these years. You asked for it and you start complaining, grow up people and do if not for yourself, at least your childrens future, they do not deserve the kind of lives you people are going through now, so why want to make them to continue with your suffering.
To smallvice585
#9
A vice is a vice, small or big no matter how you justify its still a vice.
A theory is a theory and its still a theory.
Just like theory of evolution – if its accepted as truth and practical existence, then one must admit his forefathers are monkeys, apes or gorillas.
Heres a forum for related comments, I apologise for deviation and utilising forum real estate space. Period, stop. I extend my peace.
These is my cow-sensibility.
A vice is a vice, small or big no matter how you justify its still a vice. – No Cowsense (#11)
I am glad you said that. That’s why million dollar ministerial salaries cannot be justified.
Yes the govmin response here is bad but so has HK’s government. Yes it gave out contact numbers months before S’pore and set up an independent complaint centre.
But has HK govmin ordered the banks to help the vulnerable? How many people in HK have been compensated? I doubt that 60 have (the number HLF here has said it has compensated).
Both governments are pro FIs, not just S’pore’s.
Where HK is miles ahead is their parly is investigating the distributors. Ours is unlikely to do so.
As MAS has said it is investigating, let’s wait. Legco said it will take a year, let’s give MAS a few more months.
And while MAS may not have responded to the petitioners, it is investigating. Isn’t this what P1 and 2 asked?
Wonderful PAP!!! ur old tactic had works!!! Drag and silent till voice die off!!!
Let me tell you people here what is actually happening behind. It is not about the compensating of the money to the victims, they have all the monies to pay 10 or maybe 100 times more than what is lost by these victims, if they start to pay, it means that they admited their wrong doings and someone have to be responsible whom happens to be someone closed to who we all know, and they just can’t afford this to take place due to the coming GE. Just like the mas selamat case which have a similar effect on this party. Get that?
As to why the Singapore government has not done the same, he said that it is because there are no opposition members to provide a check and balance on the government. “If the government does not want to do it, the Parliament will not say anything,” he told the crowd.
———————————-
blame u all la stupid singaporean … if u all be smarter a bit dun alwalys give support to PAP, then u’ll have more opposition to drive ur PAP to do wats rights.
I feel that this is going to drag on and on for who knows how long.
Why not take the most direct option to legally compell MAS and the banks to act on the compains. Take a class action. It will also drag on for the same length of time anyway, the way I see it. And the fact that the PM had advised against it may be reason enough to go for it instead.
Gemami:
Class action case will be prolonged, costly and produce no benefit to all parties. Singapore will also suffer as a financial institution city.
Class action only benefits the lawyers who may earn astronomical fees.
Nevertheless, class action will only prove one thing – that the people power win. They have guts to fight to the end unlike previous generations of Singaporeans who will keep quiet out of fear of antagonising the authorities.
I will support class action as it means we have up our democratic quotient in our country.
I think in a few weeks, there will be silence in HL park.
Of the10000 investors, merely 10% signed the petition.
In other words, a whopping 90% of the affected investors never signed the petition despite 5 long continuous weeks of HL parking.
Since these prefer to be so, then we should not bother them any more.
We must remember that these people are not living in HK. If so, they may react differently based on the HK situation that the world has seen.
When one compares SG and HK for this incident, its clear that the main obvious difference is the country.
I will not attend any more HL parking. I have understood the real singaporean mentality. Yes, its time to give up cos even those directly affected by mini bond fiasco are not signing the petition.
Yes, its unique.
We have witnessed many countries in the world changed.
But seriously…..do you expect…..not me….
What the PAP needs is a few terms of lost power at the elections to wake them up!
“I will support class action as it means we have up our democratic quotient in our country.”
One can support a class action if one trust the gov to do the right thing. Question is do you think the gov will do the right thing where so much conflict of interest abound ? Who give the power to the court ? PM’s wife run the Temasek Holding which invest in DBS, and PM has power over the court (Who appoint the court member? Obama ?). Until there is real independence of court from the party, the result of class action seems predictable.
I’m not discouraging the investor for class action sue, but rather ask them whether to fight their case somewhere else or bring it to international level. Otherwise, think what happen next if the class action lead to result unfair to investors. What is the probability of class action sue rule against the investors. (If you ask me, I say Risk Level 1 to 10, =>9 )
Isn’t this whole saga tatamount to the cleaner going to the White tiger’s den, thinking that nothing will happen to him, and endup been slaughtered instead ? Everyone know a tiger’s characteristic but do we not know enough of our court’s characteristic ? If so, why bother to fight in home’s ground ?
NO MPs, NO ministers to support and expect to win ?
Can the investors ask a Minister to support them first ?
Class action case will be prolonged, costly and produce no benefit to all parties. Singapore will also suffer as a financial institution city. – Gilbert Goh (#18)
Class action only makes the PAP government looks bad. However, Singapore actually needs something like a class action to show that Singapore has a transparent and fair business environment which is very much needed for Singapore to function as a financial hub. A financial hub needs both financial institutions and investors to function properly and what the Singapore government is doing now is telling investors it is only their job to look out for financial institutions.
There has to be a combination of class action with visible support.
Let the investors group together to fight as one while at the same time, Singaporeans can come together at HLP every weekend to lend support with increasing numbers.
One key to being heard is to keep the momentum at HLP going and every one has to rope in as many friends as possible to go there to be seen in numbers. If the numbers continue to increase every week, the message will not only be clear but also strong and the govt cannot pretend not to see or hear.
Something must be done and we must give it lots and lots of our patience. This PAP govt has a habit of not doing anything in this sort of situation and people like Mee Siam would be falling into their trap once they begin to entertain thoughts of giving up. This is their objective, we must have own objective, which is “patience and perseverence”.
The PAP govt and PAP has too much to lose. Don’t them let show you otherwise.
“A Tan on November 16th, 2008 2.08 pm
And while MAS may not have responded to the petitioners, it is investigating. Isn’t this what P1 and 2 asked?”
If this is true, many affected investors will rest “assured”.
It is equally reasonable to speculate that they may hide behind this “erry silence” to test out the sentiments and adopt a wait and see attitude.
It is the lack of regular updates on the status of investigation that affected people find it uncomfortable and this could be interpretated as ‘aloof’.
if a person likes a particular party and does not vote for it to signal to it to improve, would that not help make it improve?
If one thinks HK government can do a better job, nimble, listen and response to protest marches and the likes, next time itch of wants to invest, go HK .Better still, migrate to HK and become citizen there and 40 yrs later become Chinese citizen and thereafter you and your grandchildren can buy properties and invest all manners of products all over the shops in China or Greater China ie.including Taiwan! many, many times bigger and greater than the little “red dot” in terms of vastness in investment horizons and latitudes.
These structural investments hohaa are privy contracts between the investors and the FIs. Outsiders and all those who have no interests in these investment saga should not get oneself wet and drench ie. stay away! The consequences can be worse if one just join as herd instint at HLP.
For those people who has nothing better to do eg. listen and follow someone who try stir troubles urging everyone, Tom, Dick and Ahmad to go to HLP every Saturday to lent support and raise both hands and legs to Cheerio!! Dig your own hole to fit your coffin, don’t you?
27) Oscar Choy
….next time itch of wants to invest, go HK
You are talking about next time while the people over here are talking about the here and now.
Are you sure you are on the right frequency?
“26) Oscar Choy on November 17th, 2008 3.53 pm
“If one thinks HK government can do a better job, nimble, listen and response to protest marches and the likes, next time itch of wants to invest, go HK .Better still, migrate to HK and become citizen there and 40 yrs later become Chinese citizen ”
Just because you say so ? Can we simply do it just like how our country makes it so easy for foreigners to come here ?
“These structural investments hohaa are privy contracts between the investors and the FIs. ”
If it is so straight forward, why need investigation ? Unless you are privy to the knowledge that it is all for show all the while.
“Dig your own hole to fit your coffin, don’t you?”
In what position are you from to make such an extreme and desperate ranting.
Mee Sian/Oscar
I don’t blame you for feeling discouraged. Civil action is always long drawn and tiring without any visible victory in sight.
When Martin Lurther Ling spoke of his dream to see equal rights for the blacks in the country, he was foreseeing a future event that did not really take shape until Obama came.
He was later gunned down in 1968 – 5 years after his dream speech.
Nelson Mendela was imprisoned for a good part of his life – more than 20 over years he was later freed and became President.
Napoleon Hill had this to say of great men of our times: “We can observe from the biographies of men of destiny, that every one of them was sorely tried and run through the mill of merciless experience before he ‘arrived’. Fate often test ‘the metal of which we are made of ‘ in various and sundry ways before placing great responsibilities on our shoulder.”
Not all are called to great things but we can all have our own dream and belief. It is ok to step back abit and rest our body and heart but one never take a step too far behind not to do something that we think is rightful and good for the country.
Don’t give up OScar and Mee Siam, Singapore depends on you as many are still blinded and ignorant. I can see that both of you are able to see some light out of our darkness here. Strive on despite the odds.
Don’t give up OScar…….. I can see that both of you are able to see some light out of our darkness here
I totally disagree. If you have been following OC’s posts you will notice that he is a die-hard PAP follower with no chance of conversion. He has no qualm when degrading pro-Singapore comments. His posts are very often very lame attempts to disguise himself as being neutral and non-partisan. My foot in his face!