good job. i fully support your team effort. i will sign the petition.

just ask smrt and sbs transit to earn a few percent lesser in their profit and all students will benefits.

next time my children will benefit as well.

well done.

if we wait for the minsters and mps to help we do not know how much more money they must take before they will do more things.

what a sad thing for all tax payers.

Even though I took the JC route, I thought that it’s ridiculous that poly students have to pay extra. It has almost been 10 years since I left JC, and the silly rule is still around. I can’t believe it.

They should just have 3 categories for fares: Students, Non-students and elderly.

As an ex-poly student and a current undergraduate, I support this motion. Why should JC students get more advantage over their polytechnic peers? It makes no sense.

On a side note, I’m warmed to see that this call to motion were organized by the polytechnic students themselves. Looks like we might see a major political landscape change in the next feel years.

Dear Singaporeans,

Let’s unite under a National Petition (combining online and offline efforts) for Fairer Transportation Fares for Polytechnic/ Tertiary Students.

What we need now is a concerted and combined effort online and an effective person-to-person approach offline to bring about discussion, compromise and change.

To anyone who is willing to show their solidarity with the future stakeholders of our nation, and support this petition, kindly state down:

1. Your Name
2. NRIC (required)
3. Student? (Y/N)
4. Institution of Study
5. Remarks (if any)

and send them to petition4fairtransport@gmail.com. The relevant organiser(s) will be registering your signature and have it written down in a document to be complied.

“We are proposing that Transitlink look into establishing a concession price bandwidth from which a concession fare is established, of between 0 – 60% for the various student groups respectively; polytechnics, universities (NUS, NTU, SMU, SIM) and private educational institutions,” the group explains.

GREAT! :) I hope PTC is reading this and take heed.
Please do not discriminate against tertiary.
Instead, classify all of them as STUDENTS (S.T.U.D.E.N.T.S) and do the following:-
1) Separate into different bands as requested by them.. BAND 1 – PRIMARY (below 12yrs), BAND 2 – SECONDARY/ITE (12-16yrs old), BAND 3 – JC/Poly/Uni.
2) Then lower the concession rate for BAND1, retain the concession rate for BAND2 and retain the concession rate for BAND 3.

PTC, Just moved the JC group into the tertiary label and charge them accordingly.
Then let’s see what these group of tertiary holders will say ..

This is a very encouraging move indeed. From what I’ve read, there’s a concrete proposal and an effort to reach out to the public. Its much better than this random group on facebook which encouraged people to skip school for 1 week to drive home the point that students cant afford to go to school. That’s counterproductive because the impact won’t be that great, and the students themselves are at the losing end.

What about full-time students at private universities in Singapore?

I certainly hope that this petition can change things.
Hopefully the powers involved can do what’s right and change things, instead of continually being obsessed with the millions of dollars they are making as profit.

The only thing i’m afraid of is that they won’t change simply because they are afraid that Singaporeans will come to realise that WE have the power to change things if we are able to stand together.! what we need to do is to “stay together” so that we can “move ahead”. if not we will get “left behind”. Hopefully they are not as shortsighted and selfish as that.

Lots of hoping, but i wonder if there’s much hope. anyway i’m signing the petition, and keeping my fingers crossed!

#7, I agree with you :)

Lots of hoping, but i wonder if there’s much hope. anyway i’m signing the petition, and keeping my fingers crossed! – Weijia (#9)

Only in unity, we find strength. Without unity, we are nothing!

This campaign also highlights a need for a student union that outside the school administration. Perhaps building on this momentum, we ought to have a confederation of student unions.

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poly students asking for help?
please lah, dooont leh…. you scaring me you know!

you want the rest to be pay and pay more and more so that you can pay and pay less and less?

nowday, i dare no ask for helpz.

nowday, i dare no ask for helpz. – #12

Help to end discrimination?

tackle the root, please.

Hi,

I was going to support the campaign but I’m not going to because it makes the situation worse: now there’s price discrimination within the category of tertiary students!

The people behind the petition should reflect their desire for unity of support by showing the same; the fight should be for all tertiary students to pay the same fare regardless of institution.

As they claim, a student is a student at the end of the day, so a tertiary student is a tertiary student. One shouldn’t be penalised by having to pay higher transport fares as a Uni student in a private institution than one should be as a poly student.

Moreover, I think the students in private institutions already pay much more than students in public institutions; shouldn’t they receive the benefit of the subsidy than?

The campaign organisers should consider revising their campaign strategy to fight for an equal fare for all tertiary students regardless of institution.

I enjoy reading most TOC articles.
There are petitions here and there.
Could someone tell me just 1 successful example of petition?

Good Work in fighting for your right. But really, this should be the job of CASE. There are so many things that CASE can do but turned a blind eyes instead.

I enjoy reading most TOC articles.
There are petitions here and there.
Could someone tell me just 1 successful example of petition?
- hmmmm Gerry (#16)

Are you one who has acceptance mentality? The success is as important as the fight, and the fight must go on until it succeeds. Remember the SIA Pilot Association? They lost their fighting will as soon as their Chairman’s work permit was revoked. Are Singaporeans really pushover? The fight must go on.

But really, this should be the job of CASE – SevenEleven (#17)

The only qualification for the job is that one must be stakeholder. CASE does not exist to monopolise interest of consumers. This is an issue that affect students. Student unions are not less qualified than CASE to take on this issue.

18) Donaldson Tan on November 3rd, 2008 9.09 am

————-

so the answer is no? no example of truely successful petition in sigapre?

maybe this is the one which will be successful.

[...] was going to support the campaign but I’m not going to because it makes the situation worse: now there’s price discrimination [...]

20) one day on November 3rd, 2008 9.39 am

prove it! maybe = maybe not.

http://www.todayonline.com/articles/284966.asp

More FTs coming our way.

when the time is here we will know.

hope it is a good news and hope it will be successful.

all the best.

“Why should JC students get more advantage over their polytechnic peers? It makes no sense.”

–> Because JC is a school-based or so called non-tertiary education. You can’t blame JC over their poly counterparts because MOE is not the one who charges 89 cents on poly students. Neither does JC students want to see this kind of price discrimination being imposed on their poly counterparts.

I didn’t read through the article yet but does SMRT/SBS charge adult fares for University students?

In London, public transport is free for under 18 students and students who are above 18 are entitled 33% discount for public transport fares. Comparatively, the public transport operators in Singapore hardly qualifies as generous.

has anyone ever considered why the poly authorities remain quiet?

oh yeah the polytechnics and their principals and teachers should support their students also.

but maybe they cannot support their students.

because they might get pay cuts, demote or even kick out.

and also what do young pap members got to say????

#27: “In London, public transport is free for under 18 students and students who are above 18 are entitled 33% discount for public transport fares. Comparatively, the public transport operators in Singapore hardly qualifies as generous.”

Dear Mr. Tan, has it not come across your mind that Britain strives to operate as a Welfare State and they pay taxes which are much higher than ours? You can’t compare Singapore with Britain. Apart from blatant geographical differences, there are many other areas of differences.

To all those making a fuss about the perceived unfair treatment between students in tertiary education and non-tertiary education, try convincing people that you only knew of such differences after you joined a tertiary instituition. Creating such a hullabaloo about this issue is only a display of ignorance. What difference is there then, between you and tertiary students who claim to be duped by bank employees?

Of course, students are spelled the same way. What I understand is how to spell students but what I do not understand is why are you giving us a spelling lesson. Humans are spelt the same way in Zimbabwe and the United States of America too, you know? Wow, amazing. Maybe the United States of America would want to enjoy the same inflation rates too? Highly probable, since they spell it the same way too.

Blessed be your souls.

Dear Mr. Tan, has it not come across your mind that Britain strives to operate as a Welfare State and they pay taxes which are much higher than ours? You can’t compare Singapore with Britain. Apart from blatant geographical differences, there are many other areas of differences. – Weida (#31)

The public transport services are privatised too! They are UK GLCs.

The tranport companies objective is to make huge profit, and unless they prepare to make less profit or else they will increase the fares again to cover the loss for concession fares given to the poly n uni students. Simple math if they give u 10 bucks they will find way to take back the 10 bucks or even more… ie what our PAP garham doing now.

I support the petition and will be going around getting signatures in my school this week.

In addition, I wish SBS could increase the amount of bus in the route that I take to school. It goes through an industry area and most of the time by the time it reach my stop, it is packed to the door. Sometimes even when they send 2 buses together, it is still very crowded

Hi TOC team. Good Job.
SG Complain Hub touch on this issue before on Oct 28th.
Simon also came up with some interesting suggestions on how to solve this issue. Er… More information on the Solutions in the Comments for those who are interested.

http://sgcomplain.blogspot.com/2008/10/double-standards-in-transportation-fees.html

Hi,

roads are all interconnected. If 1 route is blocked, the traffic volume here flows to elsewhere. The nett traffic volume remains the same. Diverted traffic adds on to traffic volume of other roads.

Traffic lights connect roads at road junctions.

I notice some traffic lights timing is longer than it should based on the traffic volume. To elaborate, I had to wait for a long time in the late evenings at a junction in a kind of ulu place when there was basically no cars plying the roads there. I have started timing several road junction traffic lights to get a feel of the Timing set for each traffic light.

I need help from students to accomplish this faster.

My concern is that if traffic lights timing can be adjusted to improve the flow, this should be done. I believe that its logical to say that traffic light timing has direct impact on the traffic congestion problem.

yours sincerely,
Selamat wong ks (khia soo)

Thanks andrew for preparing this article. I have been thinking thru’ this issue some time back ( prior to the current crisis) but have not given a deeper thought about it.

JC, Poly or ITE Students are just Students. It is not fair to discirminate them in this form. I support the petition and will be forwarding email to people around me to support this week.

Its good news for citizens to see that our youths have started to voice up when the generation before them did not.

10 000 people’s pockets were hurt. The sums involved are huge compared to transport fares. But maybe 90% of these singaporeans are too rich to be bothered to sign that petition given that only 10% had done so after about at least 4 weeks.

I am not here to discourage you guys.

Its understandable and clear that fulltime students mostly have no income. Also understood is that MANY MANY tak boleh tahan hikes have been implemented within 2008 alone. Inflation has also eaten away our savings. Despite oil price lowering, electricity bill somehow increased by a whopping 22% or thereabouts.
So, I can emphatise with you students and your parents who face daily competition with Foreign Talents coming here to compete from all over the entire globe, even this recession period, more retrenched overseas workers may be flocking to singapore (see TODAY online).

I am glad to see that you have not set a deadline for the petition to end. Please factor in the mini bond petition less than ideal response. despite Mr TKL’s and team’s hardwork and efforts.

I understand tertiary students are having exams. When finished, I hope you can reach out to all students and get their response as it would be as easy as you think. With perserverance, I am optimistic you can get more than 10% of the target signatures based on historical evidence.

regards
Selamat Wong

sian…
i going to be a ploy too…

but still student le…
but the fare…hai…
gov..??hahas…

Hi Komenos,

34) Komenos on November 3rd, 2008 3.01 pm
I support the petition and will be going around getting signatures in my school this week.

The organiser(s) of this nationawide campaign thank you for your interest and enthusiasm. We would appreciate if you could link up with the campaign @ petition4fairtransport@gmail.com.

This is the official campaign SMS that anyone can send to their friends and relatives:

“Concession Fares for Poly/Uni students unfair? SMS 967-888-72 to support the National Petition for change (Name, NRIC, Student?, School, Remarks). Pass it on!”

I thought this is a good start to get tertiary students’ voices heard. I myself was a student from Singapore Poly and NUS. I do agree with tertiary students should be fairly treated and should not have paid adult fares or 80% more concession rates. If I remember, this issue was brought out several times but no one appears to take this case seriously.

However, I think this move should apply to all FULL-TIME students irregardless of institutions. Do remember these students do not have income throughout their study period.

I will join in this petition.

Cheers
hongjun

I think is time to ask the transport company to rethink this type of student again. I have chirldren in SIM and paying adult fare but she is a full time student unemployed.

[...] An example of how Singapore’s youths act only if it concerns them I refer to TOC’s article. [...]

#31 Weida…

I follow your point, but if we were to apply your logic indiscriminately, then there is never any basis for comparison since every country is unique; there is always something different. Your argument is one frequently used by our government when explaining things that are against them. e.g. bus fares, electricity tariffs, minister’s pay.

As for your second paragraph, i would like you to justify why the unfair treatment is “perceived”. Are you trying to say that it is actually fair, but it has been misinterpreted? Also, it is simply ridiculous to suggest that people should not have entered poly because they already knew about the difference in bus fares. Not everyone has the privilege to go wherever they want to, and if you are suggesting that people should forgo the chance of an education because of this difference, then you are even more callous than i thought possible. In fact, it is the sad truth that some people are actually forgoing a chance of a higher education and better life BECAUSE of this difference. It is also simply ludicrous to think that once you have entered poly, then you can no longer voice your concerns, especially since there is no apparent justification for this discrimination.

Also, how can you compare that to the minibond issue? (at least i think that’s what you’re trying to talk about.) To apply your logic in the first paragraph, these are totally two issues which you are comparing on two different grounds.

and once again your last paragraph show how you failed to wrap your mind around this issue. you are applying your “comparison” between US and zimbabwe the wrong way round. It is akin to saying that JC students will want to pay the same price as poly students, which is irrational. who will want to put themselves in a disadvantaged position for no good reason? But you are nevertheless close to right. Precisely because we are all humans, we should strive to end discrimination and human rights abuses. What you should be asking, is whether the people of zimbabwe will want to enjoy the same standard of living as the people of US. and wow amazing you know what? Highly probable, since they spell it the same way too.

p.s. thank you very much for your blessings.

poly students largely below age of 21, so cannot vote yet. your views are not likely to be taken seriousl. but if you notice, grassroot activities are stepping up, so election engine already started. vroom, let’s look forward to that.

Lately, I have been trying to figure out why transport costs are so much cheaper in Taiwan as compared to Singapore.

Most bus farees in Taiwan cost a flat fee of NT$20 (approx.S$1) irrespective of the distances travelled withing the city. Buses here are generally not crowded as frequencies of buses are approx. 10~ 15 minutes as there are plenty of routes to choose from.

With the reduced prices of crude oil, petrol here lately has been reduced to cost around NT$23 (S$1.10) to NT$25 (S$1.20) per litre depending on the grade of the petrol. This is approx. half what the petrol companies in Singapore are charging. Taiwan have to import 100% of crude oil just like Singapore. But I just’ don’t understand why the price is twice as costly in Singapore as in Taiwan.

In Taiwan for NT$1M (approx. S$50K), one can get a lower range BMW while a Toyota Atlis costs around NT$600K (approx. S$30K).

I firmly believe there is only one reason for this.. That is, our Singapore Government in tandem with the cartel of Singapore Petrol Companies are the main culprit that is responsible for driving up our transports costs to reach sky-high limits.

Taiwan is living proof of how transport costs can be kept to a very low level. Just don’t ask me why.

No offence but the campaign to lower concession fares has never ever been staged in a discourse between teritary and non-tertiary, it has always been POLY vs JC/ITE, even the bloody title says it all.

also they really need to be consistent in their argument, they themselves are alreading engaging in discimination based on man-made labels.

A history quiz challenge for all poly students (all invited also)

1. Which HIKE was ever reversed (that is hike and then hike undone) ? You can backtrack to 40 years ago if you like. Just name me 1. thanks!

#49 Chiu Er Ren…

that’s soo defeatist!

its going to be like 377 all over again.
dun waste your time la the govt wont care.

#48) ponnifer, You’ve got it, babe!.. (if u r female, that is).
These people here seriously lack … something up there..

As a poly student I believe we must be treated fairly as JC students. We also didnt work. Than want us to pay so much money. Government is very unfair.

Dear all,

In short, this petition is about one word, “Fairness”. It is not about equality.

In our opinion, it is wrong to adopt the equality approach. And we understand that we cannot please every interest group.

At a glance, it can be noted that we are removing the distinction between “tertiary” and “non-tertiary” and enforcing discrimination between a Polytechnic, University and Private student.

The group has no intention to discriminate between a Poly student and a Uni student. One has to look at the bigger picture behind this proposal. We are trying to propose that transport operators work within a proposed framework (0 to 60%) in which concession fares could be priced. A fair arrangement from the existing 89% difference in fare prices.

And certainly, this is not Polytechnic exceptionalism at work here. Under the proposed arrangement, University students enjoy a maximum saving of $23.50 per month, which if given due consideration and approval is a major concession on the part of transport operators. The question is this: would you retain your “tertiary tag” and forsake $282 worth of savings a year?

Certainly, under the proposed changes, a polytechnic student do not benefit at the expense of university students. Both groups are proposed to be given a fair deal by the PTC. It is also fair to a private student as under the current arrangement, they do not even enjoy any concession at all and are paying the usual adult fares to get around everyday.

This is a bread and butter issue not an issue over “technicalities & ideology”

Another highlight of this petition is constantly being ignored. Parents are usually the one who are paying for their children’s transport fares. The point is that our parents, under this current arrangement has to bear a bigger burden and it is only fair that the PTC looks into alleviating their cost burdens.

This is a call to seek an understanding between transport operators and different student interest groups. They need to understand that the current arrangement is unfair and they look to look at rectifying and improving it. At the same time, as young Singaporeans, we must understand that transport operators must be viable in the longer term.

This is a petition for change, a change in the attitude of transport operators towards its stakeholders, and more importantly, a change in the mindset of young Singaporeans that the destiny of this country, the policies affecting us are not written for us, but by us”

Doesn’t the government emphasize on transparency?

Maybe we should find out the purpose for the currect transport fare system in Singapore, before pointing fingers at the government.

Please don’t mistake me as siding the government. I just thought the petition might create a better impact on the appropriate authorities if we have more justified problems to pinpoint at. :)

So sorry if you were to say tertiary students must pay the same amount as jc sec or pri, then all of you should wear school uniform. Comeon, Tertiary students are young adults and please do declare you are a child or a kid if you insist.

yiusun,

What makes you say poly 1 student and jc 1 student are different? They are of the same age leh. You mean if you choose jc, then you auto become kid and if you choose poly, you auto become adult? Very confusing leh.

hongjun

Although i have already graduated from poly in 2006, but at that time i also felt unfair that why my JC friends who are same age as me,only have to pay 45 cents for their bus rides. I really fee unfair. I feel that as long as you are a full time student, there is a need to give equal and fair treatment, including in university as well and private uni too.

Wah Yiusun.. and somebody up there who think poly students lack something up there.

Isn’t that, i.e you, how a person speaks who clearly lacks something up there? What do you call that, uhh, NARROW-MINDEDNESS? If you hadn’t noticed yet, poly students have substance and a good percentage qualify for JCs and universities. The point here, everybody, isn’t how smart we are or what our intellectual levels are. Not about superiority over other. Can’t you people get that screwed inside your heads once and for all?

It is why SBS Transit imposes on us heavy transport fares, whereas we don’t have an income, our parents still give us money, and why the other educational levels, who are of the same age, height, weight, width, whatever enjoy and pay $27.50 every month. WHY?

Why until now SBS have not stepped in to explain the poly concession to alleviate the situation? Why has SBS kept mum? Why is SBS feigning ignorance to a supremely sensitive situation?

The government wants to help us, New Singapore Shares, Budget 2008 what have you. But it is these everyday things that hurt us most. All poly students! Please support this movement. As a saying goes, “Nobody can help us but ourselves.” Rise up everybody! Wake up from your slumbers! Shake yourselves off from your veils of ignorance! Put aside your folly and music! Unite as one!

I know and totally realise the government has done much to support us. Just look at our school facilities, everything. For this, I feel grateful for their presence, authority and strength. But just this once, can’t anybody hear our voices and cries asking for help and an emphatizing listening ear?

Our country claims democracy and let’s prove it now by supporting this petition until the end! Don’t falter Team Temasek! Kamilul Ashraf! Bernard! We are behind you! I am totally proud to be a polytechnic student, and a TP one too in fact. I am not spineless and I follow what is right and know what is wrong now. Come on everybody!

We’re the strength of Singapore!
Temasek’s me, Temasek’s you
We are a Team..

We better do something! We’re talking about Tens of Thousands even Hundreds Of Thousand Poly Students affected. Our Money is at stake! Like this I really want to go against SBS Head on!

In the Name of Lord UDeep and of Singapore Polytechnic, WE WILL RISE TO MAKE THIS SUCCESSFUL! Let’s make this FAIR so everyone is happy!

For Singapore Poly! FTW!

54) Bernard Chen

A very excellent piece of summary and if the people still do not get it then . . . sigh…

59) Nurul Ain

I applaud you on your argument.

Now, I would like to add something.

To all of you who argued against the petition for whatsoever reasons, may I ask that you invite your parents to come read what you have written. I am sure they will give you two tight slaps for not helping them save some money especially when it has to do with discrimination.

when you decided to pursue your education, you forsake all the money you could have earned if you work, and thus be able to cope with the high price of transportation. so why blame it on SBS?

i do agree that students who are not adults should not be charged like one, esp when their peers from other institutes are paying a lower fee.

however, did anyone notice that Bernard is already 23? does anyone knows wat are the responsibilities of an adult? could the service provider be blamed because adults could not be self-sufficient enough? did anyone notice that postgraduate and master’s class S-T-U-D-E-N-T-S are adults too?

i do agree that youths should not be charged on the basis of their institutes however, the proposed system is flawed. SBS is not a charity organisation so please look at them as a capitalist and come out with a win-win situation if you really want it to work. did anyone calculate how much money SBS will lose if the cheap fares are applied to all S-T-U-D-E-N-T-S? if so, what makes you think that they will adopt it?

i suggest that the plan to be changed in a way that it discriminates age. students who are not adults should not pay the higher fees. (but of course, what about our poor boys in uni who are adults since first year?)

Any outcome on the petition?

[...] The Online Citizen: Poly students want fairer transport fares [...]

It’s more of a ‘motivation’ to go to JC
That won’t stop me and many others from entering poly, including me this year.
Secondly, the goverment can save on our concession too.
Still, we are students.

if the bus company doesnt want to reduce the fares, i suggest they increase the fares for jc/ite students to be the same as poly. EVERYONE WILL BE FAIR AT THAT TIME!

they deserve it. I always felt bad when my poly friends had to pay the full fares while I could pay the subsidised fare. Hope their voices get heard.

I agree that it’s unfair that although poly and JC students are of the same age, the fare difference is so great. Both should pay the same! Moreover, polys have more expensive school fees than JC so parents of poly students have to bear a greater burden.

Choosing to continue our education is forsaking money earned from work? But if we don’t have sufficient knowledge and skills, who will hire us? Do you mean that after O Level, if we are unwilling to go to JC or cannot make it to JC, we should not further our studies if we think the transport fare is unfair?

I do not fully agree with the proposed changes, except that poly and JC students should be charged the same. If SBS thinks they will suffer a loss, how about raising all concession prices to eg 55 cents? The main point is for poly and JC students travel at the same price. When buying tickets to play at theme parks, they only charge you according to your age and not where you study. Why can’t transport fares be the same?

Anybody out there know whether the gahment pay the transport company or it was just a company initiative for the student fare concession? In UK, the government agreed with the bus companies to provide free bus transport for the old age pensioner (OAP) aged 65 and over. This was arranged such that each OAP received a bus pass for the year and the UK gahment pay a fix sum to the bus companies. Students in UK have their own school buses charged seperately from the public buses. The gahment had a role to play to assist SinKaporean family in reducing the cost of education/transportation. Hopefully there may encourage SinKaporean to have more children. In my time, bus fare from South Bridge road to Tanjong Pagar was 10 cent only but that mean no money for canteen. Time was hard for many of us but equally many of us had acheived acadamic success and are enjoying the fruits of labour. However, I must add, all students must be treated equally regardless which institutions there were attending. Natural justice and fairness demand that they must be given the same previledge or none at all.