Main Stories, Top Story - Written on Sunday, November 23, 2008 21:03 - 107 Comments
Tan Kin Lian eyes elected presidency
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The following report is from the Straits Times:
HE HAS become a familiar face addressing the crowds of investors at Speakers’ Corner.
Standing before Singaporeans and asking for their votes at an election could well be next on the agenda for Mr Tan Kin Lian.
The 60-year-old former chief executive officer of NTUC Income told The Sunday Times he is considering standing as Singapore’s next elected president or contesting in the next general election as an independent candidate.
He made no bones about his political ambitions in an interview with the paper.
But first, this king of petitions wants to see at least 100,000 signatures and names of Singaporeans who are willing to give him their support.
‘I will only do it if enough people want me to lead. If Singaporeans want change, they must have a stake in it and show their commitment by putting down their names. I cannot do this without strong support,’ he said.
Such a petition should be put together by those who are keen to see him become a leader, and not by himself, he added.
Mr Tan was just 29 when he became the CEO of NTUC Income in 1977. It was a position he would hold for 30 years until he left in April 2007.
Since he retired 18 months ago, he has been making headlines for his consumer activism.
The latest role he has taken on is that of advocate for the rights of investors affected by the collapse of Lehman Brothers-linked financial products.
In the past two months, he has organised no fewer than five investor rallies at Speakers’ Corner in Hong Lim Park and sent three petitions to the Monetary Authority of Singapore, calling for the Government to investigate the matter.
In May this year, just 14 months after his resignation from NTUC Income, he mounted an online protest over a move by his former employer to cut annual bonus payouts for life policies sold after 1993.
The move would affect two NTUC Income policies that he owns. Three weeks later, he called a truce with the insurer.
Sipping a frappucino at the Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf outlet at Raffles Hospital last Friday, Mr Tan said the idea of becoming the next elected president was first broached by someone, whom he refused to name.
Under the Constitution, a candidate for the presidency must have senior management and financial experience in a large organisation, plus be of good character and reputation. Mr Tan, having been CEO of NTUC Income, could fit the bill.
And he is no stranger to politics. He told The Sunday Times that he was a People’s Action Party member for 30 years but quit about three months ago because he was no longer active and, over the years, increasingly did not agree with the PAP’s value system.
But when he was with the PAP, Mr Tan could be described as a party stalwart.
In the 1970s, he served as the party’s branch secretary at Marine Parade. In 1977, he was hand- picked by Senior Minister Goh Chok Tong – then a new MP – to test a pilot scheme for setting up block committees, now known as residents’ committees.
He was also known to be a regular attendee at the annual PAP conference.
So why would a former PAP stalwart suddenly jump ship?
Mr Tan said he was active in Marine Parade GRC only in the first 10 years. He was largely inactive for the next 20 years, when he moved to Yio Chu Kang.
‘When I joined the PAP, it was the party of the people. It carried out many remarkable projects, such as building HDB flats, and created a transparent economy,’ he said.
‘But as the years go by, I think the party has lost touch with the ground.’
He pointed to the widening income gap in the country and the high salaries of Government leaders. He also finds it unfair how a disproportionate number of the academically successful come from higher-income families.
It is the Government’s job to correct these problems, said Mr Tan, who calls himself an egalitarian.
‘How many of our leaders take the MRT and bus like me? If they do, they will know that the MRT is crowded even at 10pm.’
Since he began organising investor rallies six weeks ago, there have been many queries about the possible motives behind this role as investor advocate.
Some people have wondered if he was trying to pave a route towards a future political career.
Last Tuesday, a reader wrote to The Straits Times to question if Mr Tan’s protest against local banks and MAS, instead of US investment bank Morgan Stanley, was an attempt at politicising the matter.
Asked about this, Mr Tan strongly denied having an agenda beyond fighting for the rights of misled investors.
He said he had taken an instant dislike to the Lehman-linked structured products from the time they were launched because of the misleading advertisements and confusing prospectus.
When the products collapsed, he was ‘horrified’ that such unstable products had been approved in the first place.
‘I felt it was very unfair that so many people have been misled. That is why I want to help them. Some people call me a troublemaker. But I know the majority appreciate my efforts.’
He said that it is ‘quite discouraging’ that a conclusion has yet to be reached after six weeks. He also hopes the Government will take up his petition.
And as for his political ambitions, they are not for himself, but for Singapore, he claimed.
‘I don’t need to be president. I have enough money and I lead a simple life. I travel by bus and MRT even though I can afford a car. So what’s the point? I don’t need this kind of trouble,’ said the father of three.
He bought a Toyota Camry for his wife four years ago and now shares it with her.
His wife, a housewife, fearing a political backlash, is also against the idea of him running for elected president and has even called him ‘mad’ for harbouring such an interest.
While he has to respect his wife’s wishes, it is his dream that Singapore has leaders who represent the people and their aspirations.
‘They don’t have to be very highly educated. They just need to be the voice of the people.’
Which ward does he plan to contest in at the next general elections as an independent candidate, I asked.
Get the 100,000 signatures first, he replied.
‘I need to know that people want the change. If not, then there is no point.’
The signatures of support will also help him convince his wife that he has enough backing to embark on a political career.
Said Mr Tan: ‘Actually I prefer to take it easy. I’ve been working for 40 years. But if enough people want me to lead, then I will.’
Visit Tan Kin Lian’s blog to see what other readers are saying.
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107 Comments
who is tat king..??
do tat king have enough supporter..?? about 150k to 200k ba..
becos he is the king ma…
i support him…
WHERE TO FIND HIM…
i really want a BIG CHANCE IN SINGAPORE…
JIAYOU..
For one, this is a pretty frank piece from The Straits Times, to include criticism on the government (even if it’s published as someone else’s comments).
Personally, I think the issue is broached too early. Right now he’s still busy with the mis-selling issue and I think a discussion on political career ought to be later.
What I find interesting is that someone who is not following online news may come to the conclusion that all these activities he’s organising in Hong Lim Park is merely to advance his political ambitions.
BTW, I suppose I’ll be seeing a petition by TOC & friends soon? I’ll put my name down in support of his decision.
I don’t know what to say…
I trusted your words, and this is what happens?
Recently, there has almost been a surge of a wave called ‘Change’ which has taken the politics of some neighbour countries and US off-guard.
Dear Mr Tan Kin Lian,
I have already signed the petition.
It is a hard road ahead, but in the same manner Obama started with little support from his bid for Presidency, a virtual unknown to the general public.
It is a steep climb, you will have to rely on volunteers, people who can hope for a change, for the better and turn that belief, into a reality.
Against the tide, the PAP government has never taken lightly to allow just ‘anyone’ to stand for Presidency, maybe it is the case of President Ong Teng Cheong, pursuing his legally obliged role too stringently. Or to paraphrase what he had lamented, it might be unwise to have one person vest all the power to check on the government, that would required a person of utmost integrity.
Such a person is hard to come by. To its effectiveness as the role of president requires, it is even harder for the government to contemplate letting someone who had opposing views to stand.
I read from this article and from your blog that it seems, your intention is to see the government do the right thing for the benefit of all Singaporean, we all do. I hope if we give you the mandate, you can keep that promise.
Good Luck.
I did not know that he was a party member of the PAP, and for 30 years. Just goes to show how ignorant of certain facts I am.
The falcon cannot hear the falconer…….
SD (Internet Liaison officer of the brotherhood)
Now that he has made his intention clear, if he is not on friendly terms with his ex-party..they may find ways to discredit him before the election actually comes about.
Indeed… Things continue to fall apart and the Centre can’t hold on to it, our Best lack all conviction, while the Worst is drowning.
Hi all,
In fact ppl were speculating right from the start of TKL involvement in this lehman bro issue that he is probably interested in EP…and it HAPPEN!
I don’t know…if TKL becomes a President…can he be doing things like what he is doing now??????????????
I really dont’ know.
On top of that, I thought most Singaporeans at least the netizens were against EP???? Remember the comments from this post (http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/wp-does-not-support-elected-presidency-still/) and this (http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/the-elected-presidency-and-future-non-pap-govts/) on TOC???
Why the change now?
Haiz…sorry I cannot understand :)
I wish TKL best of luck and support from the people of singapore. Let us all give him our most support in putting him into our highest office. Such a courageous person is hard to come by these days. However, we hope that he would not be like in the case of JBJ and CSJ who both were being victims of the ruling party but we, the people of singapore will be there for you to see that you goes to the top, have no fear for the power is in the people that want you to restore our nation.
Keep up the good work and we will be there for you.
It is not too early for Mr Tan to start.
He needs to organise a war council. Have the mechanics to run a useful campaign and do the groundwork. Get writers to do responses and screen emails. Organise his platforms and get that out to the public. Run that with a managed budget and start raising funds. None of this can be accomplished overnight.
That will truly maximise his chances vis a vis a well-oiled PAP machinery that will be probing every facet of his life for a weakness.
Mr Tan…i’m ready for CHANGE
Good Luck!
How about another conspiracy theory that goes like this :-
1) PAP’s current President might not be able to “Tong” longer for the job
2) PAP need to find a replacement
3) PAP remembers previous incidents of surprise candidate (andrew kuan) or the public support for non-PAP candidate (Chua Kim Yeow).
4) In order to counter the above 2 incidents, they decided to do a 无间道.
5) First, PAP likes Mr Tan …and thinks he can be the president..
6) However, to counter public support for non-PAP candidate, PAP must first make Mr Tan a non-PAP candidate or someone who is not agreeing to the PAP’s value system. With the Lehman incident, Public will perceive Mr Tan as such..
7) Other surprised candidates who are thinking of running will bow out as they know of Mr Tan’s high profile action… Thus, PAP eliminate the surprise candidate portion.
8) Now they can hold an election with Mr Tan versus another PAP establishment… And the public can vote Mr Tan in and PAP can safely snigger away in the background.. .. and it can also be shown that Singapore really have an elected president…
9) This eliminates another long standing myth of elected presidency is a fiasco.
Isa,
You could be right..
wow really..isa..?
wow..i think WP should have a candidate to election for PRE..
my wish..
If you think my conspiracy theory sounds good.. Give me a thumb up .. but not into my ****
Comments edited by moderator.
Moderator,
Don’t over-moderate. Annus or annal is a very common word and is of no offence to anyone.
I think even the header “Tan Kin Lian eyes elected presidency” seems to cast some aspersions on Kin Lian’s political ambitions.
Dear Mr Tan.
If you’re heading the independent candidate way… please avoid contesting in a SMC… garner your support of like minded people and head out to a GRC as an aliance of independent candidates… The elected presidency is useless to you if you’re really working to help the people.
Looking over the comments, I think it’s interesting how quickly people have started thinking of possible conspiracy scenarios or wondering about Mr Tan’s ulterior motives in considering running for election. I’m not presuming to know whether he does or not – I have no idea what his real intentions are. However, it is clear that political cynicism is so deeply ingrained in Singaporean lives, as a consequence of the present government’s past actions in consolidating political control, that any meaningful political movement from the grassroots is very difficult.
I hear talk about ‘change’ in the manner of the Obama campaign in America, but that campaign was riding on a wave of idealism and hope among average citizens. Singaporeans are too cautious and afraid of disappointment to throw themselves into a movement like that; I should know because I was similarly cautious upon reading this piece of news.
For Mr Tan the best action now would be to concentrate upon resolving the minibonds affair and give little thought to the presidency. It is better to finish the job and then talk about campaigning, than to talk about it too early on because it would then seem as if he was putting his personal interests first. Sadly, Singaporeans look upon the presidency as a sinecure rather than a position of real responsibility. One hopes that the situation may change.
has the smear campaign against Mr Tan started?
trying to make it look like Mr Tan wants presidency for himself and that’s why he’s helping these people for his own benefit?
Mr. Tan already said a lot of times in his blog that he has no political ambitions, and he’s still standing by that statement.
the ST article is really mis-representing Mr. Tan’s stand.
The breaking news seems a bit early strategically when not much have yet been achieved by the petitions led by TKL. It is really hoped that the timing will not turn into an early archilles’ heel for TKL.
Has the press lure TKL into disclosure ? The “big trumpet ” phaselogy and its implication (actually nice wordings) had been a reason for TKL being pushed out at NTUC Income.
To TKL – as a well wisher, please strategise carefully and TO WIN in moving forward as you cannot withdraw now – the 100,000 signatures can be secured in a weeks’ time in the present climate where citizens want to see a fight to uphold good changes for the future of Singapore. You have to win; the consequences of other challengers in the past is a stark reminder.
Please also get good and sincere advisors alongside you. Good luck.
Dear Isa,
I don’t think you conspiracy theory is correct. If you understand PAP, this is not the PAP way.
#25, sadman,
I don’t understand the PAP, therefore, the conspiracy theory..
#22 Brandon,
Conspiracy Theories have been with us since christ. It is human nature to conjecture and think of possibilities and theories that intrigue or mystified us.
Therefore, it is not about how ingrained politican cynism is in Singaporean’s life.. Rather, it is how ingrained conspiracy theories have been in human evolution.
Examples of conspiracy theories still abound…
like the UFO one (Roswell)… the one abt shadow govt (A world govt called Illuminati)… the financial powerhouse controlling the FED (Rosthschild and sons).. JFK assination …
Yup Sadman.
I am more inclined to believe that PAP still staunchly believes in hard-nosed pragmatism. As least it has proven to be so the past couple of decades. Engaging in 无间道 method would prove too risky. Our first EP, Ong Teng Cheong, is already a stark example of how even the best plans can go awry, not less to say juicier ones.
That mentioned, conspiracy theories are indeed exciting but we’ll only know whether it’ll stand the test of time only much later.
I too support TKL as a president. I will not recommend TKL to contest in opp party because the gov as usual will make thing difficult for opp party to make change to the system, let alone make the impact to Singapore governing system. Everything that opp party do and suggest will deem as political move by the gov (remember how minister often says “Do not politicise the issue” when opp party ask questions on citizen’s issue )
For people who support TKL as president, either you trust TKL or you don’t. Your trust must be strong and resilient and not waver by discreditation, demeaning, accusation, falsehood or possibly past minor mistake of TKL (nobody perfect anyway) that will be emitted by the MSM in coming days (as usual , that is how our MSM works as mouthpiece of gov to destroy anyone willing to challenge the system). The MSM will then roll out the propaganda posts to praise and glorify the PAP on how perfect it is and how the president must be up to perfect standard, as perfect as Nathan who don’t make mistake (Anyway, can you make a mistake cutting ribbon and attending charity show ? ).
LuckyTan has written a classic article on how MSM and GLC will be used to discredit president contestant. As usual his humourous style of writing beguiles the seriousness.
“Remember this person called Andrew Kuan. He was a unknown Singaporean until the day he decided to run for president. Within a few days, he former employers have plenty of things to say about him. His former company JTC (which is linked to the government) even gave a press conference to give an account of his performance or rather lack of performance….nevermind staff confidentiality, national interests come first. It was all very humiliating for Andrew and he didn’t even get to run because the selection committee concluded that his work experience did not meet the criteria required to run for president.
In an interview im today’s Sunday Times, Tan Kin Lian’s said he will run for presidency if there is enough support from the gound i.e. if the people want him to, he will do it. This must have triggered many alarm bells in the regime. The PAP govt would really love to keepPresident Nathan in the post for another 10 years. Unfortunately, President Nathan is already 84 years old. For the PAP, President Nathan’s performance is excellent compared with the previous president Ong Teng Cheong. Unlike Nathan, Ong Teng Cheong took his job too seriously. He tried to do the impossible – check the govt’s accounts with a staff of two people. His former PAP associates tried their best to help him to enjoy his job by not burdening him with too much information….a president’s job is to smile, carry babies and host parties at the Istana. President Nathan does his job well. That is why the PAP is looking for another Nathan….not another Ong Teng Cheong.”
Above From “http://singaporemind.blogspot.com/2008/11/red-alert-tan-kin-lian-for-president.html”
The president must have power to do the job as president Ong shows that president can be just a puppet and ceremonial wayang post in Singapore. I wonder if opp party can influence the system to put more power to the president.
I believe that TKL will make a good president, at least much better than Nathan who been used to cutting ribbons and attending social and charity show with millions buck in kangaroo pouch.
If Tan Kin Lian really wants to stand for EP or an an independent candidate to be MP he won’t say if 100,000 support him with name and signature then he will consider.
He knows that it is difficult to get that number of people to provide name and signature.
Dear Mr Tan Kin Lian,
I believe that you are a sincere person.
Let me reassure you that most people are happy that you have not ruled out a political career. I hope you will forget about the EP and concentrate on getting into parliament if your intention is to effect real change in Singapore.
However, even if you manage to get elected as an MP in the next election, there is little you can do. I think if we want change, we have to be more patient, and we need to be more organised.
Right now, there is an almost complete absence of the basic support structure of such a movement to succeed. Please do not mistake open declarations of support by netizens here for real tangible support. Even the 100,000 signatures of support that you require is also futile.
It takes much more in terms of mass political consciousness, planning and preparation for such a movement for change to succeed. What we need is a new strategy and a fresh approach in playing the non-PAP role.
gogogo … I support u for sure, hope u come to my area so I have the opportunity to vote for you … and will ask my frenz relatives ah gong ah ma all go vote …
come on TOC u should promote & publicize this peice of news … how many elites and top brains willing to go against PAP like Mr Tan, while putting their stakes at risk?
PAP & Elites … you all better wake up now … we need ppl like Mr Tan, who understand us better, who know our suffering & hardship better, who are willing to help the poor and uneducated .. to lead this this once proud nation called singapore
but Mr Tan … why dun u gather more ppl at & support before going head on with PAP? If the LEE not happy find some execuse to bankcrupt you how? … if ppl like you suah suah kena charged … we poor singapore definitely no hope already …
Mr tan, I feel proud of you. But fighting with PAP is both unfair and risky. Why not you be patient and wait for the Old LEE to go 1st ? The young LEE is not capable of holding the party for too long before we see some fights among the party itself, which will present a better opportunity for getting an fair entarnce into the politics.
i will support mr tan kin lian.
all the best mr tan i hope u will run for president anyway, whether or not there are 100k signatures
i hope to see Tan K.L in parliament aft next election ;-) i believe he will ‘fight’ for the ‘exploited’ workers given his time in NTUC.
get the petiton to support tan kin lian start immediately.
i will surely sign it.
if i meet tan kin lian in public place like on the bus or mrt, i will go over to shake his hand and tell him i will support him.
hope the rest of the people will do the same.
You all think, the insecure PAP will allow people to vote our President???
It WILL NEVER happen.
For once, I completely agree with smallvoice585 in #31
TKL supporters ought to work with TKL to build an organised support structure for whatever campaigning. Whether this structure stays formal or informal, it really depends on the political environment evolves with time.
When PAP says any non-PAP leaders is politicising issue, one should completely ignore PAP for saying that because when PAP makes that claim, the PAP is already politicising the issue because PAP is also asserting that the only legitimate channels for addressing grievances is through PAP and its affiliated organisations.
I have read twice over and carefully, the above ‘report’ by ST Reporter ndianah@sph.com.sg and posted on this site for TOC followers to read. And I’d like to give my take on the issue at hand:
Let me direct readers’s attention to just two excerpts from the article as a prelude to what I have to say in each instance.
The first excerpt states:
“While he has to respect his wife’s wishes, it is his dream that Singapore has leaders who represent the people and their aspirations.”
The excerpt clearly contains the inference that Mr.Tan will not over-ride his wife’s wish(es) and that it is his ultimate wish for Singaporeans and their country that they will be led by ‘leaders’ who will lead so as to serve and help make the people’s ‘aspirations’ come true. This clearly exonerates Mr. Tan from the allegations or imputations that he is ‘ambitious’ or ’self-serving’.
The second excerpt states:
“Get the 100,000 signatures first, he replied.
‘I need to know that people want the change. If not, then there is no point.’ “.
The ‘100,000 signatures first’ should not be read literally. Educated Singaporeans by now would be familair with the practice of people resorting to the use of metaphor to emphasize or illustrate a point for the desired effect. In this instance my educated guess is that Mr. Tan meant that he would seriously consider climbing into the political arena, if he were convinced that the people unequivocally signal their desire for some real change. This could also implicitly suggest that Mr.Tan might have serious doubts over the ‘courage’ of many Singaporeans when things ‘come to the crunch’.
My conjecture in regard to Mr. Tan’s mental and emotional landscape is that while he is troubled by a number of policy-issues implemented by the PAP after the first two decades of its governance of Singapore, he is honest enough to acknowledge that the PAP has delivered, to not an inconsiderable measure, its original pledge to the People.
However what particularly bothers him, and many Singaporeans I have come into contact with, is the political gymnastic that the PAP indulges in over the last 25 years or so. While the PAP had invoked the virtues of Western Democracy in the 1950’s when it was fighting the British colonialists and then the MCP to take over the reins of power over Singapore, the Party which has ruled Singapore over the last 45 years has now declared that not only Democracy as practised in the West is undesirable but also that a two-party system is unsuitable for Singapore. So it is only evident that the PAP, having been in power for too long for its own good, is now advocating an Autocracy. Alas, the PAP is unable to guarantee that another MM will replace the present MM when the latter exits the political scene.
PM Lee’s recent speech as reported in the Straits Times indicated in no uncertain terms that the best system for Singapore is a Single-Party rule by a Party composed of leaders with high academic qualifications, are incorruptible or thoroughly honest and will be able to perform according to expectations to make Singapore on par with the First World. Sadly, serving the People in terms of protecting them and providing for their needs as well improving their quality of life, and making Singapore a Home where all Singaporeans may live harmoniously, happily and in peace with other countries, seem to have been pushed to the background if not aside.
In other words, the PAP under the ‘new guards’ seems more intent on focusing doing those things that will bring glory and adoration for the leaders of Singapore, never mind that those achievements that the world account as worthy of glorification or adoration may be of no real benefit to the People in terms of improving their standard of living and their quality of life. Clearly there are signs of ‘hubris’ creeping in.
The leaders of the ‘new’ PAP also measure the value of their achievements in monetary terms rather than in terms of the People’s regard and respect for them as genuine great leaders who are guided by the Principle of “to lead is to serve”.
The PAP’s new ideology of a Single-Party system according to which the Nation would be best governed by a small group of people with brilliant academic records and whose honesty are beyond question, and who will also perform according to expectations are predicated upon assumptions that have not been attested to by the experience of real life. Even people with brilliant academic records have to contend with something they share in common with the rest of their fellowmen, which is, the baser instincts in human-beings. And life’s experiences have shown that these baser instincts in human beings tend to surface with greater ease when they are given free reign which comes with unquestionable power of some men over the rest of their fellowmen. Such is the situation in which the saying, “power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely”, has its origin.
And it is precisely for this reason that we need accountability. And by accountability here, we do not mean self-accountability but accountability of the ruling party to an opposition party or group of people charged with that task on behalf of the People or the Nation. Hence the rationale for a multi-party sytem.
Certainly a multi-party system may entail a certain amount of fractiousness but not to the extent of causing a total breakdown of the existing system. For a multi-party system to function effectively certain prerequisites must obtain, the most fundamental of which is a balanced education which provides for the all-round and optimal growth and development of each and every citizen of a Nation. And this is certainly achievable as indeed the experiences of life have provided ample evidence.
Incidentally in this instance, Education according to the Singapore mould leaves much to be desired. For in the educating of our young, we have forgotten the golden maxim that “Man does not live by bread alone”.
Hi Isa (#15)
I wish to state that the conspiracy theory is totally untrue. There is no such conspiracy (as far as I am involved).
Hi brandon (#22)
Please read this blog. It remains my intention and focus.
http://tankinlian.blogspot.com/2008/11/tan-kin-lian-eyes-elected-presidency.html
http://tankinlian.blogspot.com/2008/11/political-ambitions.html
Of course I support TKL to run for political office. I may even be his assistant if he does not mind.
Like some here I prefer him to go for political office via the opposition political way. That is stand for election via the GE and hopefully get elected either the SMC or GRC way. Much can be done via this channel as, if I know TKL well, he is a vocal advocate and will fight for the rights of the common people.
The President in SIngapore to me is purely a symbolic political figure. There is simply not much TKL can do here except to meet foreign heads, attend NDP and maybe dig abit here and there on those secret accounts. Of course, the current President has much power with regard to the unlocking of resevres.
TKL to me functions far better as an alternative voice that Singapore solely needs and lacks right now. The opposition movement is very weak despite 43 years of having one no thanks to the deliberate attempts by the ruling party to undermine them.
Of course, between the President and opposition politics, the former seems easier and even glamorous. Sometimes when I see President Nathan he remind me more of a pop start than a politician waving th the crowd during NDP parades. However, I doubt PAP will “allow” TKL to stand for President as that will be seen as a snub for them. They will want to put up their own candidate if possible. The entry to opposition politics seem easier and smooth in comparison without much barrier.
My take is that SIngapore needs a strong ground person who has already garner more than 50% of the sympathiser votes through the minibond protest to stand for opposition politics. Yes the ground is hard and the battle fierce – we have seen so many casualties before. But for the period that we are in, there is a gross lack of an alternate voice in Singapore. I hope TKL will reconsider his decision not to stand for Presidential election but select a strong team and stand together as a GRC team. If they win, it will be a milestone in Singapore politics not unlike the Obama change victory recently. Hope will be restored to the country who is crying out for an alternate voice.
It is also good for TKL to have a brand new political party so that there is freshness and vigour in it. Its sad to note that our current opposition parties do not really inspire or motivate us further.
All the best TKL – I will sign the petition even though I am abroad.
Hi Quo Vaids (#24) and other friends
I am aware that I will be the subject of personal attack and character assassination. I have been warned to be “very careful” by well meaning people, as well as those with other motives – the politics of fear.
.I have been given all types of advice, on timing, on strategy, on public image.
I wish to state the following:
1. Winning or not, is immaterial to me personally.
2. I want to give a platform for Singaporeans to make a stand and show their commitment towards change.
3. I like those who wish to make this commitment to sign the petition and give their particulars
4. I am also asking for people to come forward and volunteer their time in this effort.
5. I shall contest on a platform of honesty – and I hope that Singapore can be an honest society working for the benefit of all people here.
Please visit my blog to read about my statement of values for our society.
Hi smallvice 585 (#31)
I agree with your statements. These are wise words. To effect change in Singapore will take a long time. It will require the people to be educated about the right values in society. It goes beyond selfish materialism.
I do not expect to achieve much within a short time. I hope that a start can be made.
My sincere desire is for the change to occur within the PAP – so that it can regain the support of the people. It is the best hope for our nation.
Most of all, we need elected leaders that truly reflect the wishes and aspirations of the people, and work in the best interest of the people. The best interest is not “populist measures” but the current way of deciding by a few people is not good either.
Hi Ho Cheow Seng (#40)
Thank you for your analysis and wise words. The analysis correct reflect my position.
I agree with your views about the positive contribution of the PAP to building up Singapore in the past years. In recent years, there has been a change in the value system of PAP which is not good for the people. I hope that the PAP will realise this, and is able to change and win back the support of the people.
I agree with the merits of a multi-party system. Most importantly, it should not be politics for the sake of politics. It should be a way to discuss issues openly and to have different views and angles considered, before a final decision is taken, based on good judgement and guided by good values.
Although I too, am all for TKL, BUT, I am very doubtful of his success.
To all of you I ask; is the “politica playing field” LEVEL to begin with???
Mr Tan,
My husband worked for NTUC-ARU some years ago. He had the most respect for you amongst the stable of NTUC group CEOs. We will not be surprised if you are elected President. Way better than LBH, at least.
We are now Australian citizens but would like to wish you best of luck for your future endeavours. Please be careful.
I only hope that the young generation of educated Singaporeans will not fall prey to the PAP’s character assasination ploys.
We have destroyed potential leaders in the likes of Chee Soon Juan, JBJ etc.
For those who questioned Mr Tan’s agenda, ask yourself if one really lives without an agenda in life? We work to earn money, that’s an agenda.
As long as the elected representative delivers what you want of him, he has performed. When he gets out of line, you can always remove him.
Democracy is a active process or if you must, a relationship between the government and the governed. Singaporeans want to elect a government and then sit back and relax. Expect the best to do all the right things.
Singaporeans need to re-think how they go about asserting their citizenry.
And Mr Tan’s concerns are right. How many singaporeans are ready ?
Hi Gilbert Goh (#42)
Thank you for your views and useful suggestions. I agree with most of them.
anon:
Well said indeed.
The ground feeling is favouring TKL now with so much major hiccups popping up weekly that one fears what will be unravelled if one digs deeper.
Much of the ministers’ replies to these grouses were pretty insensitive to say the least.
For example when asked by a reporter whether ministers will cut their pay, Tharmar replied that they are not there to grandstand! He could have being humbler and replied that he can’t comment on that or the PM is the one that will decide. How difficult can it be to answer politely?
Another curt reply – Mr Ho when answering to queries on the minibond losses incurred by TCs replied that residents should thank the town councils that they have being making gains all these years and how was this reply related to the losses? Shocking simply. He could have reply that TCs will need to review it’s investment strategy and place deposits in safer instruments. Is it so difficult to answer intelligently?
One gets the feeling that ministers and top civil servants thought that the majority of the population is stupid and gullible. Times have change and we have a sharp and educated population that can read in between the lines. We have a top team now in governance that is so detached from the ground that it is frightening.
Nice to know that you have settled well in Australia and still care for affairs back home. I am also in Sydney NSW but somehow my heart belongs to SIngapore. Can’t really settle well here yet.
Mr Tan Kin Lian, you have my full support. Count me in as one of your supporters. You, more than our present President or our SM, have come to us in our moments of need. We don’t need a president that gets paid multi-million dollars for not doing anything to help us. We need a brave man like you. Please do take up this challenge for the sake of the ordinary people. Your name will forever be engraved in our history books as the president that brought about transparency.
Our only worry is that they will disqualify you as a candidate, even before you can take the stand. Nobody can deny that as CEO of NTUC you fully qualify the very exclusive rule that you have to have experience managing a 100-million dollar company. NTUC which was under your charge has a turnover of much much more than the 100-million dollars.
I agree with Gilbert. Mr Tan may do more good as an opposition/independent MP in Parliament. We’d love for him to speak for the people. Not to attend Star Charities. :)
“Much of the ministers’ replies to these grouses were pretty insensitive to say the least.”
You can’t really fault these ministers as they are really honest and way too blunt of their arrogancy as it has already become second nature to them. Habits especially those that are genuine are very hard to fake and wayang. Moreover these cultures of answering towards “little people” have been moulded and cultivated under 4 decades of elite PAP mindset.
I find the answer given at No.8 by Singapore Daddy very odd and mysterious. Tell us all please laison officer of the brotherhood. In clear and simple english, if you may. DO YOU SUPPORT TKL OR NOT?
I googled the fragment piece that the laison officer posted and I came up with this.
“Turning and turning in the widening gyre,
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born? ”
I dont have the slightest clue what he is trying to say. Oh well time to turn my gyre, have to go to work and pay the bills now :)
Do clarify please laison officer.
Elected President is the way to go. How can we allow PAP to elect a president of their choice? We don’t even remember what President Nathan did for us except for the yearly charity event. However, will NTUC or Mr Lim Swee Say speak out & discredit him.
Mr Tan’s organisers need to pay special attention to the collection and use of donations (if legally allowed). Any mishap or oversight in such a financial matter will be latched on by the RP to jeopardise the campaigne and disqualify Mr Tan.
My favourite novel is Animal Farm. That sums up what I want to say abt TKL ’s political ambitions. The government machinery has managed to turn lots of mavericks into their fold, do not be deluded by all this hot air.
Regardless of TOC conspiracy theories,
for now,
people should support TOC for things like this – Let it be known to the Public what kinds of forum letters the ST reject and from this we compare what kind of letters it continues to publish.
This has to be a continuous effort. A ULTRUISTIC effort to allow the people access to some information not known to them.
We the People should support any steps to IMPROVE the SYSTEM and not just a particular organization or party. NATION 1st! Lets for once Look at things from a NATIONAL perspective and not partisan perspective! Do what can improve a system and this can sometimes mean criticising even the party you are more biased towards. We need to Balance the Ying with the Yang , else …..
I strongly believe this is a TRUEly GREAT and NOBEL attempt which Directly Beneifts the PEOPLE of singapore.
We hear rumors of MSM .
With more information like this, the wall , if any, CAN BE TORN Down, in time, as momentum snowballs.
viva la Democracy!
viva la Transparency!
get the numbers going, support him, down with the clowns and monkeys!
If elected, Will he ask for less salary? or salary based on performance ?
IF TKL ,being baselessly alleged by one guy Chua to be anti-gov, become elected Presidente , would this not make him more credible to check-n-balance on the u-know-who ?
What happens if one considers TKL’s background?
What is Pensioning from the past?
Its confusing right guys? Well, it is for me!
Finally we have a guy who thinks he is “robinhood”, not me, TKL has to do more, show more and act more, to get my vote! The mini-bonds saga, petitions etc etc does not move me at all…it jus happens so that TKL, together others, acted well and in the interest of ‘greedy’ investors who came running to the govt. when their investments started crying ‘lost and gone’.
This act, representing a tidy sum of about few thousand, does not garner TKL a seat in Parliament and of course not the Presidency…he ought to show his commitments, master plans, his backing financially etc etc before getting my vote. TKL is no hero either a crusader of the public!
1 Thing for sure, TKL is our one and only. No one else has stepped forward.
Good afternoon labrat @ #54 @ 10.14 am
LOL what does it really matter what we think about Mr Tan’s political aspirations? You overate us, I dare say – let me put it this way, it’s really like dwelling on the ruminations of ticks debating who really owns the dog – don’t you think so labrat?
My personal take is simply this; if you want to write a story, then go ahead and make sure it has an engaging plot and if possible try to flesh out the characters; better still hold out the promise of redemption and if possible structure the narrative in such a way, if good prevails over evil, its always by the narrowest margins and deliverence was always purchased with the noblest and purest of intention – my point is this: if you want to do something make sure; you do it well, otherwise dont even bother. And that means there MUST be a head and a tail, that way, even if you don’t succeed fully, most people will still say, you still fought the good fight – and it was a good innings.
As it is, what do we really have in this story?
Oh dear, we subsequently discover mid way, the hero now has an ulterior motive that was previously never revealed for some inexplicable reason – not only that, but it also contravenes many things he has previously shared with all of us, regarding how his ONLY wish was to help others along with the desire for sweet and tranquil repose – and here what you need to consider labrat is what is the effect on the perceptive reader when one narrative is superimposed on another that’s all so different from the other?
For one it throws the plot out of synch very much in the way the heroine with big curls, liquid eyes and legs that run forever is suddenly unmasked as a transvestite. And from that point onwards. I suspect its downhill all the way i.e the tale grabs you more than the telling – what I will say is if the story or for that matter ANY story, takes such a sudden twist and turn, then the hero’s blitheness may run the risk of turning slack, and too many scenes that we have all seen in HLP may even outstay their welcome. And why should that really be so? Because when one decides to toy with the rules of story telling without deigning to show that he could, if pressed, obey them – then the plot will certainly unravel.
Like I said, he should have stuck to original story, tell it from start to end – then close that book and start the new story with the new character of the President or opp politician – that would have read much better in my opinion.
As it is, this story is now very confusing and it’s really too hard to follow. No doubt it still feels cheerful– but I suspect as time goes it will have to rely on the charms of its cast rather than the plot.
Having said that true to the spirit of sportsmanship – we wish Mr Tan god speed and every luck in his endeavor.
SD (Internet Liaison officer of the brotherhood)
YES CJ…u are absolutely RIGHT!
The ground is NOT LEVEL TO PLAY WITH in the first place and there are just too many examples to prove this point!!!!!!!!!!!!
As it is, this story is now very confusing and it’s really too hard to follow. No doubt it still feels cheerful– but I suspect as time goes it will have to rely on the charms of its cast rather than the plot. – Singaporedaddy (#64)
This is what I have been saying all this while. Goh Meng Seng’s announcement to petition Tan Kin Lian to run for election (for MP or EP) is badly timed and now it has set things as it is now. He has no political acumen and it is hardly surprising why he has yet to win a seat in office on his own merit. We don’t need political cowboys among Loyal Opposition in Singapore to spoil the show.
This act, representing a tidy sum of about few thousand, does not garner TKL a seat in Parliament and of course not the Presidency…he ought to show his commitments, master plans, his backing financially etc etc before getting my vote. TKL is no hero either a crusader of the public! – vsraaj (#62)
Master plan? The President’s role includes safekeeping the national reserves. How is that important to us? Our national reserves are directly managed by GIC, Temesak, MAS and the Ministry of Finance. It is the President’s job to make sure GIC and Temasek are doing their job well because our CPF monies are loaned to GIC and Temesak for their investment portfolio. Any losses that GIC and Temesak sustained ultimately will hit us in our CPF.
In my opinion, its Mission Impossible, if not terrible
Anyway, I am not a prophet, I am an ordinary people, really want
to see a change in Singapore political landscape. And if needed,
I am willing to offer Mr. Tan my full support as an ordinary people.
My day gets brighter as I pondered over one of Singapore’s biggest news yet.
Never since MAs Selmat’s daring escape from prison did we have such an important news coming our from the small nation.
TKL’s floray into politics will prove to be PAP’s biggest bugbear of the decade since LKY brought us out of Malaya.
The news is made more astounding when we realised that the ground support is already moving for his advantage. His venture at HLP for the minibond investors have thrown up a Robin Hood image and many people will see his work there as representative of what he can do in politics later on. It is something that our future opposition leaders can learn from. Merely sending people up for election during GE can only do so much. They will attract votes from the die-hard anti-PAP supporters but not those who are sitting on the fence. These people sift through their choices and baring any ground shaking grouses from the ruling party will not hesistant to put their crosses on the lightning sign.
What is politics? It is simply speaking up for the common people and ensuring that their needs are met. Though not everyone will have their needs met, at least they know that thier leaders have heard them and understood their cries. PAP leaders can take a leaf from TKL. Past leaders like Rajaretnam, Ong Teng Cheong, Goh Keng Swee and LKY understood these aspirations of the people and walked the ground alot. I saw how decades ago LKY mingledwith the crowd alot and even spoke to young children in one of the clicp that I saw here “LKY earlier years”. This somehow never really caught on with the younger leaders now. They prefered to do politics behind a desk and an invisible face.
Nowadays we only see PM, MM and SM walked the ground and spoke to the people. Ministers are hardly ground level people with their stucked up attitude and MPs are simply invisible elected representatives that do not make an significance in the people’s life. This govt will be doomed if it carries on like this.
We have to struggle with FTs competing for our jobs now and ever rising cost of living even in such down time. In a population of 5 million people, we have at least 1.5 million that are from other countries. This is simply shocking.
TKL is a fresh smell of fresh air that has overtaken our country for a long time. I cried out in joys of tears and relief that indeed hope has come upon our land. My only hope is that there will be more other TKLs that will rise up in teh midst of a stiflng political climate and step up in conviction to do the right thing. Singapore needs you and it is time to do something that will go down in history so that our children and children’s children will have a better life.
66) smallvice585 on November 24th, 2008 1.09 pm
………….
Master plan? The President’s role includes safekeeping the national reserves. How is that important to us? Our national reserves are directly managed by GIC, Temesak, MAS and the Ministry of Finance. It is the President’s job to make sure GIC and Temasek are doing their job well because our CPF monies are loaned to GIC and Temesak for their investment portfolio. Any losses that GIC and Temesak sustained ultimately will hit us in our CPF.
———————————————-
And due to lack of INFORMATION, could someone advise what has the incumbent president done in this aspect? I must say good good ah! u no believe me oso cannot de.
People who stood up for the People will forever be remembered even if they never win.
The people just want someone to voice up for them. Simple demand. Not for money, not for fame.
WP was the only choice we had.
Even with its style, it managed to get 33%.
Now, there is a glimpse of hope that we will get more Choices.
WP, eat your heart out.
Dear Mr. Tan
I feel if you want have maximum impact on the policy and give people a platform to voice those injustices, EP is not a good road in the long run. Having a conservative party is more appropriate and I believe there will be a national effort to help you judging from most of the support you get here.
As a president, you can be easily isolated by the ruling party, but if the conservative party form a equalizer. That will be a different scenarios. I strongly urge opposition to united and prepare themselve for the coming election. Despite chiam strong hold, I really have doubt if his next generation can hold on to potong pasir in the event when he is not around. What I am trying to say is, at current situation, opposition will not hold any longer.
The way I see it, there is no harm to elect a credible MP or president.
But then this is just me.
The risk is 1 term or less (if performance not good, he will be out either by push or petition) .
This kind of risk in a truely democratic and honest and fair system in a land of highest educated people is quite harmless.
regards
Mee Siam of the Strange Type
Hi,
I am just a simple gal. But after reading what the brotherhood laison officer wrote and reading other post concerning TKL elsewhere here in TOC.
I am not so sure now that I really want things to change. Please dont get me wrong. I still want things to change and all that. And TKL seems to be promising exactly just that. But Singaporedadi may be right, “the story is getting (terribly) confusing.” And things dont seem to be very clear any more.
I just want to ask one more question Singaporedadi, if I may. Does that mean the brotherhood does not support TKL? And if he is not the agent for change then who is? thx. hope I get a reply
Labrat, why should it matter if this “brotherhood” does not support TKL. Since when did it become politics of a clique of bloggers?
Highly ironic that people should preach democracy and yet be beholden to groupthink.
I dont want to butt into a private conversation but we could well do with some strong leadership in politics couldnt we? I think one reason why Tan KL was so popular was bc he could get things done when all our politicians seemed to be sucking their thumbs
Loyola:
Frankly this is quite common with the ground reaction. People will be uncertain and once shaken can change sides easily. It takes someone who go through the mills of life to be steadfast in what he thinks is right. I think PAP has exploited this weakness in the populace and use it to their advantage all along. By using the media to spread fear and uncertainty in opposition politics, they have managed to condition the people that there is only one ruling party and govt.
Nevertheless, as the people now are frustrated after so many years of pork and barrel politics, they could now see through the tactics employed. Many are able to realise that the govt is going to the extreme now to stay in power even to the detriment of the country. Some day the river banks will burst.
TKL may also need to be shrewd here not to depend too much on sentimental support he is getting now. Some may change their mind when it comes to making a decision. Of course, those undecisive ones now may ultimately vote for TKL.
It just goes to show how indecisive people are especially if they are very unsure about themselves in the first place. In the US, this is called the Beardsley effect whereby people will inform the media that they will vote for a particular candidate but will switch their vote on the actual day. This is so true in Singapore also.
Many who attended rallies for the WP in GE 2006 were thought to be voting for WP but we all knew that in the end this wasn’t so.
Anyway, I can see at least 35% of the population will support TKL for what he is doing. Another 35% may oppose as they are suspicious of his intentions all along. The rest of the 30% may either be ignorant or apathetic. They couldn’t be bothered if he challenges the Presidency or not.
Why don’t we see..
Singaporeans are welll known for waiting for the goodies to come in election day..
All the fervent support and rousing passion comes to nought after the goodies are announced…
People will be swayed back to the ruling party. PAP , PAP, PAP.
Dear 73 & 75
Before we dive into this question, let me be very clear. I will not be drawn into gutter politics, I don’t dispute, this may be a very good way to bring down a man by going through his history with a spiked comb and drawing out incongruities to cast negative aspersions on his character – but this is not the brotherhood way; we are sportsmen, we don’t play that long kang game.
What I will say is this; we are currently facing one of the greatest crisis that has ever confronted us since independence; have no doubts my friends; this isn’t any financial crisis – it’s the mother of all crisis. We have to be very clear here so that some of you who may still be day dreaming will snap out of your reverie.
This is not the time for us to diffuse our energy or to even dissipate it by mooting the issue of change; not if we are to remain agile in being able to deflect many of the arrows that will come our way; and rain on us they will, to blot out the sun even; we will have to lock our shields and keep to the formation; AFTER that we can all sip coffee and talk about change; AFTER that we can all discuss whether Mr Tan is better than Mickey Mouse; AFTER that we can all find that special someone fall in love, marry and raise kids; AFTER that then we can all debate whether permissions are preferable to pears.
But NEVER before.
You see my friends; at the end of the day; I don’t really care whether it is PAP or the consortium of weekend train spotters who are running this country; what I do know is even the ancient Romans realized the wisdom when Rome was attacked; then the senate would be dissolved and every single citizen and resident rallies under one man; this is the ONLY way to deal with a crisis of this magnitude; we all really need to take a full sweep of what we are up against and PRIOTIZE this one issue; if we don’t do what’s most needful now there may well be nothing left after this; that is really what keeps me awake at night; then even if you are successful in “change;” then what use would it be if all you would have done is to effect “change” in a place called the empire of the bones?
Please use your mentality; no one in his right mind discusses changing the color of the wall paper in the smoking room; not especially least of all when they’re just struck an iceberg and the name of cruise liner happens to be the Titanic – we cannot support Mr Tan; AFTER we have dealt with the many problems which will come our way maybe, perhaps and even possibly, but now is certainly not the time – we have a war to fight.
It gives me no pleasure to say this; but I would have expected Mr Tan to know this by virtue of his vintage; I am considerably younger than him; have seen and experienced even less; but even I know when is the season for change and when is the time to set these childish things to one side and take up arms – why doesn’t he? I wonder, I really do.
This I leave to you all to consider.
SD( Internet liaison officer of the brotherhood)
78) singaporedaddy on November 24th, 2008 5.22 pm
Very very well said. A very discerning view.
However, we are back to squre one again. Head you win, and tail I lose.
I like the idea of siege mentality.
there’s forever a war to be fought, after that peace.
the other thing regarding politics is timing is of essence, hence ‘impeccable timing’.
not surprised, not surprised at all.
all that effort can’t be for nothing
was expecting this running for EP thing to pop up since the rallies…just that it surfaced sooner than i expected
Would he be disqualified from running because he ran a co-op (which theoretically is not profit-oriented) instead of a company, since one of the requirements is that the candidate must have run a company with a minimum paid-up capital of $100 million ?
I am also not surprised, but unlike us he has got guts and he deserves our full support. He will be the first president (other than Ong Teng Cheong) to deserve the millions of dollars if he is prepared to stand up against the mighty PAP. So, please also support TKL for President to help us get rid of the present york.
Mr Tan, you have my mandate to run as the President of the United Constituencies of Singapore!
We need you to lead our country – One People, One Nation, One Elected President, One Singapore!
I am People of Singapore and I endorse this message.
78 Singapore Daddy
“This is not the time for us to diffuse our energy or to even dissipate it by mooting the issue of change; not if we are to remain agile in being able to deflect many of the arrows that will come our way; and rain on us they will, to blot out the sun even; we will have to lock our shields and keep to the formation; ”
With the deepest respect Singapore Daddy, this kind of speech is what Bush keeps saying year after year. There is always a crisis where everyone must pull together. You make noise, you are being unpatriotic.
Also, how do you suppose we ‘pull together’ during these times? Accept the pay cuts and retrenchments? Don’t quarrel with the government? Do everything they say and we’ll get out of the recession? Spend spend spend because that’s what Goh implores us to do?
In the politics of fear, there is always a war to fight. A crisis to manage. Pull together. Sweep everything under the carpet. Patriot Act. Homeland Security. Either you are with us or against us. Now’s not the time to question. Now’s not the time to ask for change. Later, later, never.
I wonder why you never saw it.
I suspect that many people in Singapore are not supportive of Elected President as it is a over paid ceremonial post perpetuated by the government to justified higher pay scale for the Minister.
I couldn’t figure out how any country [esp. a tiny red dot] would paid > S$3 million dollar a year for a guy jetting about the world, shaking hands with other ceremonial heads of state.
I would support Mr. Tan if he would donate 90% of the ill-gotten remuneration of the president to a charity of his choice so that the remuneration commensurate with the nature of the job!
singaporedaddy is right.. it is not important what they think of TKL.. more important is what most Singaporeans think. What ulterior motives? PAP ministers getting mulit million dollar packages to run the country – you mean they willingly serve with no ulterior motive? Well they are only willingly to serve in the government if they get multi million dollar salaries and have not accountability for problems that arises.
If TKL is open for the position of Presidency while in the process of helping the people, what’s the take? At the least he is helping the people not just sitting or hiding away from the turmoil. Most important is if he is able to maintain his steam. However, I am sceptical if TKL can do anything much as the President who does not even have the powers to question how the investments are made. The current government would prefer a baby kissing, ribbon cutting, jetting about the world, shaking hands with other ceremonial heads of state than one who is speaking up on issues that concern the people.
“Please use your mentality; no one in his right mind discusses changing the color of the wall paper in the smoking room; not especially least of all when they’re just struck an iceberg and the name of cruise liner happens to be the Titanic – we cannot support Mr Tan; AFTER we have dealt with the many problems which will come our way maybe, perhaps and even possibly, but now is certainly not the time – we have a war to fight.”
Is the current government fighting the war for Singaporeans? Think again. After more than six weeks, and there is not formal response from MAS or any government officials on how the minibond fiasco will be dealt with. What is happening to all the investments made by our wonderful top top elites…in Citibank, Morgan Stanley, UBS, and god knows what else. There is no impartial party / person to do the check and balance? no reporting or accounting necessary, even after the TC using public funds has lost millions from the sinking fund to this same minibond fiasco.
Hi 85 Zefly (aka Joshua Chiang)
“With the deepest respect Singapore Daddy, this kind of speech is what Bush keeps saying year after year. There is always a crisis where everyone must pull together. You make noise, you are being unpatriotic.”
Yes. I understand where you are coming from. Let me just say I share MANY of your sentiments; George Bush was certainly a walking disaster that the world peace movement could have well done without. In retrospect, we should have known better; the last time someone had a conversation with a Bush, they found themselves wandering around the desert confused for 40 years; so what you say there is certainly true to heart.
As for the PAP. Again, agree some points just don’t seem to gel very well; for one I can’t understand for the life of me why they all still wear white; they really look like the international vegetarian or ice cream salesman convention whenever they clump together; as for the Byzantine pay of ministers and all this talk of 1st division superman dream team; again, this is an issue that doesn’t sit very well with me; as I certainly do not see any exceptionality or even compelling evidence to believe this could either be the ONLY way or even the best WAY to move forward, if anything its just a very reliable way to perpetuate their class politics and mythologize their raison – so yes, what you have highlighted makes good to go sense.
ONLY, this crisis that I have taken time to share with you and everyone here such as labrat and miss manners is all TOO real this time; I wish it was different, but those are the cold cuts; and although there is considerable scope for improvement on some of the points you have highlighted concerning PAP; I think, what it desperately needs is a SENSE OF SCALE to see many of these issues and the challenges in the correct perspective; to me the creamy pay and 1st division rhetoric and Harry Houdini class acts we saw when they did nothing in the minibond issue was certainly irritating, but in relative terms they remain the small stuff – let me put it this way, do you decide to dump your girlfriend just because she has a lousy hairdo? I mean if she follows you like an obedient Rin Tin Tin through the thick and thin and doesn’t complain about bugs and mosquitoes, then I say, you have a good to go side kick life partner –trust me, these days you cannot find better- marry her – those are the good points. And they are hard to find and good is a good place to build on – see my point? So again please, if your girlfren has a bad hair do; do you send her to a decent hairstylist or dump her?
But if lets say, your girlfriend thinks she is some mother Teresa or spiritus mundi to all the cats of this world; and you may even need to share your pied de tierre with 10,000 cats and sleep on top of cat cages; then I say, you better get you’re an industrial sized air freshener or better still decide to dump her pronto – because you have major problems there – its no good unless you thinking off driving off a cliff.
However, in this case if we discount many of the irritating issues that I have mentioned concerning PAP, it is still a very reliable all weather producer of good for Singaporeans and residents; the important thing is they are solid on the key fundamentals where it really counts not like the BN in Malaysia where everything is somewhere but nowhere (you are in serious problem there); as I said; there is always room for improvement; but I cannot see how jumping from one hot pot to another based on the tag for change may even be a reliable producer of good – to me that has to be an assault on reason.
Think about it.
Thanks
SD
perhaps singaporedaddy can enlighten us on what is really meant by the SCALE of the issue that we will be seeing soon.
I see the point in how the government has been a constant producer of economic good, but well there are other aspects to consider like political rights. But we can always argue over whether overthrowing Suharto was ‘worthy’ or not.
The second thing, if not now then why? And I don’t see how someone running for office (despite the intentions) will directly affects the central party ability to govern. Realistically speaking, do we really expect the dominant party to change over the course of a financial crisis? some thoughts please.
8) singaporedaddy on November 23rd, 2008 10.16 pm The falcon cannot hear the falconer…….
Hi What’s the Brotherhood thingy about. Sounds intimidating like the KKK in USA.
But my interest is the incomplete verse you provided. If my memory serves me it should go on to say: ….Things fall apart/The Centre cannot hold … from WB Yeats in “The Second Coming”. What is your point here, may I ask?
Fantastic site! Coming to think of it there must be thousands of people like lab rat. They are probably around the mid 20’s, reasonably well educated working for astar. I even suspect she may be a regular brotherhood press reader as she uses terms of familiarity which I consider quite odd for most forumers.
Beardsley effect is certainly in play here. And this is where i believe the role of the liaison officer is key. From what I have been able to make out, he is like some sort of traffic warden, only he directs thoughts instead of cars, that is how I see him.
Otherwise how can you possibly explain that the brotherhood only makes up 0.005% of the serious RPG gaming clique worldwide, but they have still managed to monopolize a disproportionate level of influence in the gaming world. And this is how it works, if lets say one gaming community lets say in California, discovers a way to fold space and try to sell this machine to other gamers. The brotherhood will send these glib tongue liaison officers to scuttle the whole deal. They will claim this new machine will upset the balance of power or it will mean rewriting the rules or something to that effect. And since they have a right of veto, if all fails they can even nail it to the door post. So either you deal with them or you dont get to even market your product. The perfect scam. So these people are like the jewish lobby in capitol hill and the means by which they influence events is through characters like singaporedad.
Unfortunately, this also means TKL will be going nowhere now. I will be very surprise after this, if he can even garner 1,000 votes.
You see there are just too many people like miss labrat around. And that liaison officer knows it only too well.
Great site!
liaison officer knows this, if you manage to influence the 20% of netizens that regularly makes up 80% of whats in the www. Its like being in the good books of 20% of the key customers who account for 80% of a firms revenues and turn over.
He’s always on the money. He got his eyes set on the 20%. Thats why they are so influential
I am reminded of the snake oil seller in the old days where he beats the gong and peddles (doesn’t work n nobody cares) his stuff at the top of his voice, attracting a big crowd. Till now, it is only the opportunistic leap into the recent financial fiasco, his platform has to be more legitimate n diverse covering more issues, not hot air, real answers needed.
Good afternoon #92 lecturer,
Hey man, you make it sound as if we are spectre or something; do we have equity in the international gaming confederation; Yes, but so does every gamer that plays warcraft and everquest. Do we regularly influence events and outcome in the gaming arena? last time, I checked the rules book, that’s part and parcel of how the game is played. So what’s your beef?
But just to impose a remit on your write up (if I may?) I think its important to re-state that I don’t have a mind control machine that can influence folk like labrat – the internet is a free domain and you, I or for that matter Mr Tan use basically the same platform to communicate our thoughts – so where does the issue of competitive advantage even feature?
The important thing is I have NOT breached any laws and we don’t have ANY subversive or malicious intent; if Mr Tan wants to run for public office, then I say good luck and go break a leg; but if he decides to do so in the internet; then he has to take the full sweep of the good, bad and ugly and that simply means MANY people will ask him pointed questions.
The way I see it, he can hardly put up his hand and say; it’s not fair. As we all know in Rome we are all expected to do what the Romans do; this is how politics is conducted online. If he doesn’t want that sort of fish bowl scrutiny; then exit the net and stick to the traditional platform of politicking; that should allow him to play ask-me-20-questions- that-I-have-ALL-the answers-too, but it also means he decamps from all prospects of garnering support online. To me it’s a no brainer – the blessing comes with the curse, but it makes absolutely no sense to me that politics online should be conducted like real world politics where it is highly choreographed and scripted; we already have that in the real world and we all know it’s a lousy producer of good; why do we even want to recreate real world Singapore online is really beyond we – last time, I looked out of the window, we already have that already.
Thanks
SD (Internet Liaison officer of the brotherhood)
Good Afternoon # 89 laserpointer @ 2.06 am
“perhaps singaporedaddy can enlighten us on what is really meant by the SCALE of the issue that we will be seeing soon.”
If you really want to get a handle on why things are going to get so rough this time; just try to imagine that you’re a 15th century seafarer and suddenly you just heard that the world is round and not flat, as you have always imagined it to be; that’s really the long and short of why this whole financial crisis will bring about transformational change, it isn’t really a crisis in the strict financial or economic sense as it remains a very thorough philosophical rubbishing of practically everything that we have predicated our social, economic, political and business focus on for the last 25 years!
The main problem seems to be the die is cast; we have put all our chips on the wrong markers; to a certain extent you could say, its not the governments fault entirely and no one could have really foreseen the wealth creation machine breaking down in the way it did, unless you happen to be a reincarnation of Nostradamus – but that doesn’t discount the fact that in the last 25 years much of what I term “departmental thinking” has been shaped by this ONE and ONLY philosophy of how to produce “good.”
As a result, we invested heavily on building up core competencies in banking and financial services; along with the whole idea of centralizing wealth in a few juggernaut oligarchies like Temasek – unlike HK and Taiwan and Korea who divested it to small holder private enterprises as the primary engine of growth, they have a plan B to see them through the lean years – we dont – and if we peel off another layer, you could even say, the whole way in which we have organized our thinking along with the whole definition and benchmarks of how we have defined success has be aligned to serve this ONE and ONLY instruction manual which came with the goody “good” producing machine – now that’s it’s kaput, it just means, its game over.
If we go deeper, then we really begin to see how overeliance on this ONE and ONLY assumption to produce “good” will really affect us. There are really too many examples to cite. For instance, even our “best” minds are streamed to be scholars instead of businessmen; the problem is scholars are the last thing we need now; they are no good; they cant get us out of this mess; but if we had invested on lets say 10 Li Ka Shin’s or 5 steve jobs and a couple of bill gates; then I say, you stand a very good chance to take that licking this crisis will dish out and even get ticking again within a few years; my main point is the cavalry is not government this time but private enterprises, all the former can really do is stimulate and massage the market; don’t be surprise if you pull on one of the levers of power and nothing even happens; the MAIN PROBLEM is if you only have a wafer thin substrate of entrepreneurs and miles of salarymen; then its no good; its like trying having a warehouse full of round pegs; in a world that only sees the wisdom of producing endless square holes – no good.
We may well be seeing the end of an era as we know it; my only wish is that I didn’t believe in what I am saying – but the facts are too compelling to deny – this has made me very hungry for some reason and I need to go down for a spot of economy beehon.
Do have a nice day
SD (Internet Liaison officer of the brotherhood)
thanks to singaporedaddy for your reply.
I might not agree with what you said regarding how this one true philosophy is the fundamental behind all our growth, but well it seems more clear now where you are coming from, no judgment there.
Well, as for Mr Tan, I think interesting times call for interesting solutions, provision of alternatives does not necessary mean that citizens cannot work together for a common ground. That said, best of luck Mr Tan.
“I might not agree with what you said regarding how this one true philosophy is the fundamental behind all our growth, but well it seems more clear now where you are coming from, no judgment there.”
Fair enough. The important thing is you understand “where (I am) coming from.” And we had a discussion. That IMHO is a basis to build on. I am happy, I did not waste my time like I did with “lecturer.” That’s why I have been assigned here by the interspacing guild of the brotherhood to state our position clearly and unequivocally to represent the case of our readership constituency.
“Well, as for Mr Tan, I think interesting times call for interesting solutions, provision of alternatives does not necessary mean that citizens cannot work together for a common ground. That said, best of luck Mr Tan.”
Agreed. 100%. We are all sportsmen here; on that you can be assured; only let us be clear, WE DO NOT SUPPORT MR TAN L K. The decision is yours of course, but that’s our position and its final – as I said earlier, the “story is just too confusing to follow further. “ We want no part in it.
Nevertheless we wish him the best of luck in his endeavors.
SD (Internet Liaison officer of the brotherhood)
Hehehe, at least this time I’ll not be a NATO (No Action Talk Only) member. I’ve signed the petition. Currently stands at 403 (online).
http://tankinlian.blogspot.com/2008/11/petition-form-for-elected-presidency.html
I agree with Mr Tan’s assessment of how the PAP government has lost touch with people. The first time I had that feeling was when Mah Bow Tan had to actually take a bus ride along the northeast corridor in morning peak hour in order to be convinced there’s a problem.
Even if this achieves nothing in the end, it is my way of telling them to wake up and start governing right again (some of us probably would not agree with the “again” part). I say Mr Tan would be a fresh change in the political scene.
99,597 to go!
Too much power resides with the current party which is in power for too long.
Incumbent government is too used to getting their ways and ministers are not used to accounting to the public.
Government is too caught up with making money, and clearly rewards those who help them in their endeavour.
Government rules too much with the brain with too little heart. Their focus group is beyond the middle class, and hopes that by rewarding the top those below somehow will benefit from it. I do not think this is happening now. We need someone to drive a movement that focus on the middle class and below, which are the workhorse and fabric of this nation. If you are the person, you have my vote and my support in attaining your endeavour.
:)
The way I see it if TLK is going to get beyond even 1,000. He needs to get the broad band of moderates on his side. And that means, he needs the brotherhood to support him. As I highlighted so clearly in my comment post here. There are thousands of people like Miss Labrat. And sorry to say this, but most of them dont even think for themselves. They outsource it to the brotherhood to do it for them.They dont know anything honesty. And sometimes I even wonder how clever people can be so short sighted. If they see the brotherhood giving it a seal of approval, they will just go for it. If they dont see it, then they will just log off.
Besides who in his right mind is crazy enough to give TLK a blank cheque of 100,000 votes. For what? I wonder?
Last time. I checked, they called that kinda of crooked system a dictatorship. Tell me what will I get for 100,000 votes and why doesnt TLK flesh out the how’s and why’s and then ask for votes, if he did that we have a basis to sit down and talk. As it is I dont know what to say. Like I said, it will be uphill to even reach a paltry 1,000 votes without the brotherhood behind him.
As for you singaporedaddy, I did not mean to be offensive or rude. If I came across as brutish, sorry.
reg
100) lecturer on November 26th, 2008 10.53 am
<>
The question is whether you would give your vote TKL. He is not here to do a song and dance for you that you might give him a performance score.
And partly, I believe he is trying to gear citizens into political awareness, slowly and patiently.
If you too, like TKL are interested in providing Singapore with more political openess, awareness, an alternative voice, you can help by getting more people to sign the petition. :)
aiyoyo
we need someone like Mr Tan Kin Lian
to make a change..
I come to know this Web by reading today’s zaobao Pg12.
Am not too late to come in.
I would like to cheer for all the people here who dare to speak your mind louder.
I’ve signed to support TKL. I’ll see him at the speaker corner tomorrow.
cheers!
i was there.
And yes, many singaporeans told me they do not know of event at Hong lim.
They say the news did not tell them.
But what is known is one of the ‘tabloids’ may have mentioned it.
Singaporeans need to wake up and know that more information can be found on the internet.
For example, certain ST forum letters never ever get published. These can be found in some online resources like blogs.
Some singaporeans are still very information unsavvy. SAD.
no wonder.
103) LPC on November 28th, 2008 8.35
am I come to know this Web by reading today’s zaobao Pg12.
Am not too late to come in.
LPC
You should now help to spread this awareness of TOC to all your family members, relatives and friends. Many of them are stil unaware that the newspapers you people read are mainly propaganda and only publishing good news and articles that are building the good images of our country, and its not true at all. You should read now read whats been written down here the actual things and events that are truely happening in singapore instead.
Hello Mr Tan
I’m one of your former NTUC INCOME staff members (1994-1996).
Reading with interest about latest developments in Singapore and
your recent activities.
Below is one of my favourite quotes:
“A truly great man is one whom
money and rank cannot corrupt,
poverty and hardship cannot shake,
and power and force cannot subjugate”
Mencius
Mencius should have added one more
line i.e. “and has genuine compassion for the downtrodden”
Tan Kin Lian has just announced his withdrawal from running for president or to be an MP. He blames the people of Singapore for this. How ridiculous.
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Uncategorized - Jan 15, 2010 10:12 - 126 Comments
It is affordable – Mah Bow Tan
More In Uncategorized
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Uncategorized - Jan 15, 2010 10:12 - 126 Comments
It is affordable – Mah Bow Tan
More In Uncategorized
- Rebutting Law Minister K Shanmugam
- Challenge of communication
- TOC & Talk Politics hold successful Year in Review forum
- “Live” from Post Museum – TOC’s Year End Review
- The Fajar Generation
Now is the right time for our very own “MOSES”….jia yu Mr. Tan!