Quote: ‘This French Declaration is among the founding documents that led to democracy and also exalts its merits. By associating it to the French Revolution which seek to overthrow the oppressive monarch, you had completely overlooked the intrinsic merits of the French Declaration itself.’

I find the comparison here, usually used by critics to distinguish between the ‘textual’ and the ‘contextual’ in a piece of fiction, odd. When the subject is political upheaval in non-fiction, it usually is a “a-call-to-arms” kind of work and, strictly speaking, only works of fiction may have the kind of intrinsic value you’ve described.

As to the positive statement you made about public education, I can only make the normative one about the onus being often on individual investors themselves to know what they are buying into. Anyway, do you think public education on investing should come at a fee or not?

I think the FIs have indicated that they will finish their investigation before the end of the year.

I don’t blame them as we are talking about 10,000 individual cases with different stories and background. I believe they may compensate some but not the whole lot. The rest can then sue using class action.

I think the most frustrating thing out of this mayhew is:

1. Lack of accountability and haste in answering to the investors from banks and FIs.

2. Lack of support shown from the authorities especially MPs, ministers, CASE, etc. It is obvious that they want to wash their hands off the issue.

3. Lack of options available for the investors. If not for TKL, investors will do what the govt advocates all along. File your complaints with the FIs and if you are still unhappy go to the FIDR and complaint. The next stage after this is of course class action.

4. Lack of consumer activism within our society. This case clearly highlights how lacking we are in consumer rights. The rights of the consumer needs to be boosted from now on but if you ask me how. I don’t know. CASE and FIDR are not really doing their part in advocating consumer rights for reasons best known to them. DBS can also retrench workers without first informing their own bank union. This is in fact violation of the company labour law. But no one will take action as our workers do not know how to use people power yet.

5. Lack of unity among investors. For a total strength of 10,000 investors, 400-500 that showed up for HLP protest is really not a significant figure. It is not even 10%.

I hope that investors will get back something from the protest. Nevertheless, one significant oitcome of this protest that money can’t buy is that we have see what SIngapore can do when they are frustrated and led by a good leader. This is only good for democracy per se. History will only show how significant the minibond protest will turn out to be in time to come.

Look at PAP speed and ferocity over a bloody misplaced election form? CTV footage were extracted and made public, played over national TV within a couple of days, scores of ministers ragged poor Gomez over a a FORM!! Sometimes, you wonder whose interests the PAP is working for. Remember this clearly when you vote in the next GE, especially those 66.6% of our fellow countrymen. U sure u are voting in a government who is taking care of you?

This French Declaration is among the founding documents that led to democracy and also exalts its merits. By associating it to the French Revolution which seek to overthrow the oppressive monarch, you had completely overlooked the intrinsic merits of the French Declaration itself.

While the roles of banks have evolved, the people’s expectation of banks have yet to evolve with time too. Deregulation of the financial service sector may be good for the economy, but the regulator has failed miserably in ensuring citizens are sufficiently sophisticated. There ought to be public programs to provide general discussion on fundamentals, merits and demerits of investment products and strategies in future.

Greed in wanting to grow our so-low interest rate on our deposit. If it is safe and can provide 5% annual return for 5 years why not? Our principal is also guaranteed? Why not?

If GIC can produce close to 8-9% return annually for the past ten over years, I wonder why they can’t do something for our retirement CPF fund. We have to suffer the low 2.5% interest rate on the ordinary account all these decades when they could borrow from our CPF money and grow theirs. This doesn’t make sense.

In Australia, mutual pension funds with good track record, will receive billions to invest for pensioners who have all along dump their money on such funds. They then receive a regular payout base on the amount they put in and how the fund has performed. An annual return of between 7- 8 % is not uncommon. Of course, now they are suffering the effect of the slow down. Nevertheless, all these years, they have being receiving good returns.

Unless the govt can find a good solution to help retirees growm their moeny for retirement, people will continue to place money in stocks, unit trusts and properties subjecting themselves to high risk and forfeiture.

Quote: ‘However, I will not join into any pre-mature conclusion that we must avoid an uprising.’

Just as I guessed. Ok, back to the main topic. So what do you think is the most poignant thing mentioned about the structured product ‘fiasco’ thus far? I’ve given my take in post #121, which is along the lines of the risks involved with the structured products being ill-matched with the risk profiles of investors.

My own personal opinion is that those investors were seduced by the name of the products. For instance, ‘bonds’, real bonds, are generally considered conservative investments, but it’s turned out that the Minibonds and other structured products had more risks involved than some investors really knew. I mean, retirees, unless they are foolish, don’t usually even invest in equities, and if they did, they’re more likely in put their money in blue-chip stocks. Individual investors with a low-risk profile usually go for fixed deposits, bonds, mutual funds with low-risk, low return ratings or funds with low management fees, like money-market funds. Incidentally, the last, since I mentioned the fact about individual investors being ‘seduced’ by the name of financial products, also turns a lot of conservative investors off, if only because the word ‘money’ brings to mind currency and speculation. That is not true about money-market funds at all. They are probably one of the safest types of funds you can put your money in, besides index funds, because something like a currency unit or an index does not often go bust and close shop. Besides that, money-market funds and index funds usually involve low managment fees, and sometimes no management fees at all.

Roussea didn’t write the French Declaration. I am very much influenced by the ideas written inside the French Declaration, but not the French Revolution itself. Whether Singapore needs a revolution is an issue still open to debate.

Why are you concerned with violent uprising anyway? If it is the right way required by the circumstances of the times, why should we condone it? However, I will not join into any pre-mature conclusion that we must avoid an uprising.

Anyway, this is off-topic from the Article itself.

It wasn’t that same work written by Rousseau, was it? Have lost touch with world history, as with local history. Lol. Anyway, the Revolution was one of the bloodiest events in Europe. You said that you’re, in your own words, ‘very much influenced’ by the Declaration. Are you sure that you’re in a way advocating violence; or are you sure that you’re not advocating violent uprisings in your claim to be influenced by that work?

Many stock & share players (fortunately not all) want a return of 10 to 15% return in a few months times.They can sell their paid shares if they need the money urgently. They short, they contra, they take SGX, NYSE, etc as casinoes. Young or old, they are just GAMBLERS

NOBODY WILL ACT ON BEHALF OF GAMBLERS

I am sure they will sue the banks for misrepresentation again. This thing will go on forever and the aunties and uncles fortunately may be compensated due to their supposed ignorance and innocence.

I have seen more aunties and uncles at the Stock Exchange looking at the screens and buying stocks than men in ties. I sincerely doubt that they are so gullible. I have relatives who are uneducated ah sohs making a tidy sum from the stock market boom when I am still struggling in a 8 to 5 shit hole. I may have to learn more from them how to invest than from those silly stock analysts.

Educated investors may want to bring these FIs to court over mis selling. Do HLP wants to take up their issue again? I hope there will be another TKL to rise up to act on behalf of these investors again.

Perhaps it is time to remind these old folks to vote for Singapore’s future and not vote for the fruits of past success they had enjoyed.

It was written during the French Revolution and for the French Revolution against the Monarch.

If proven otherwise, what can the citizen do other than to swallow the bitterness and regret ? A good court should able to stand scrutiny, unfortunately the Dr Chee saga shows that this court cannot stand scrutiny. This is a sad fact. – daniel (#122)

In the people’s eye, the court may be seen as an instrument of political oppression in Singapore, but it still viewed as a impartial forum for matters relating to commerce. If the Singapore court fails to be an impartial forum for commerce, then Singapore’s future as global hub for finance, trading and oil refining would be threatened.

Psst. The state of being naive is better as ‘naivete’, not ‘naivety’.

Anyway, was the Declaration written prior, post or mid the French Revolution?

The Eastern newspaper editorial:- “The Legislative Council has passed the resolution to activate the special power regulation to investigate Lehman Brothers Minibonds. What make people most puzzled is that the HK Government is not standing by the side of the victims to pursue their interest, but instead siding with the bankers. This can lead to rumours that the Government is protecting the bankers and businessmen. Frankly, if this affair is not investigated and allowed to drag on, it will only make people harbouring doubtful impression that the HK financial market is lacking transparency. Such an impression will do the utmost harm to the international reputation of HK.”

What an editorial pertinent to SG too!