Will the PAP please take away the GRC concept and give each citizen an opportunity to vote. ! It is our basic right to choose our own government !

Dear Andrew,

Timely Reminder Indeed. When Elections comes, it’ll be too late.
I’m not multimedia savvy but I really would like to request multimedia experts for visual aid.

A lot of People needs to be given a visual comparison of some realities.

For to show A 3 Million a annual salary, perhaps it will be good to show an pictorial equivalency such as 1 Semi Detached House a year.

Then Assuming Obama sees through 8 years of Presidency, a visual potrayal of how many houses can he afford to purchase compared to the ministers here.

Perhaps, I should continue to ask around.

What Singapore needs now are credible, strong, capable opposition candidates. Obama’s a brilliant man. His race, charisma, and eloquence are secondary factors that worked either for or against him during the elections.

Come election time in Singapore, will we see oppositions candidates of such caliber rise up to the challenge? We know our current leaders are exhibiting signs of arrogance and complacence. We know the abilities of some of them are .. open for debate.

But what are the alternatives now? Obama didn’t just whine about how screwed up his country’s current government is when he was campaigning; he focused on what he will do to change it. to improve the system, to improve the situation in America.

I don’t have any brilliant ideas, but for the love of God, I hope some of my fellow citizens do. And that when they do, they step up to the challenge.

WHAT can you do, when the district you live in, is NOT allowed to vote???
It’s SO RIGGED!!!

“But what are the alternatives now? Obama didn’t just whine about how screwed up his country’s current government is when he was campaigning; he focused on what he will do to change it. to improve the system, to improve the situation in America”

He don’t need to whine because he is playing on the fair game, and citizen has the power and right to truly vote and support. There is no threat of lawsuit over speech. Freedom of speech and assembly. Do you get that in Singapore ?

They keep up with their communistic-like ruling, it would take nothing short of a damaging Uprising to bring about change.

No need for election. We know which only party will win. If there is an election, sweeping change is some thing I will never see happen. The question I have is wiil the people got balls to support a capable candidate regardless of party affiliations . We should want a fair chance for the opposition as well as their supporters without reprisals. Eventhough Singapore is freer compare to Myanmar, but when comes to politics of who is in power there is no difference. If this aspect remain the same Singapore will never a ‘paradise’ or a complete 1st world.

audacity of people balls

YA I support what Andrew wrote here. Singaporeans need to be more involved in politics – not just to be a politician but because they love their country. Politics is just not for the politicians but for everyone who is loves their country.

The Americans get involved in politics and most are partisan but more importantly they love their country even if they are Democrats or Republicans. The Malaysians, though third world, loves their land too much to allow their country to be dragged through political dirt. So both these countries have a population that cares for their own country too much and voted for change. Apathy is not their way of life.

The power of a democratic country lies with it’s people. People power rules strongly with their vote. In fact, most govt worldwide does not like the free democracy model as it means they are at risk of being thrown out after every election. I am sure the same fear strikes our govt every time they call for an election. Worse, if our PM’s GRC failed to win election, the PM-elect will have to give up his seat both in the constituency and govt. This is a fearful thought for every modern government that contested the election on a democratic ticket however biased the system is

Like Andrew, I know what I am going to do when the GE is called. I may not be a politician or stand for election but as someone who loves my country even from abroad, I want to get involved.

The Americans get involved in politics and most are partisan but more importantly they love their country even if they are Democrats or Republicans. The Malaysians, though third world, loves their land too much to allow their country to be dragged through political dirt. So both these countries have a population that cares for their own country too much and voted for change. Apathy is not their way of life. – Gilbert Goh (#8)

Yes. You can see how passionate how Americans are with regards to their own country. I implore Singaporeans to watch the following videos on youtube and hope it will dispel political apathy. We need to reclaim ownership of Singapore from politicians. Singapore belong to Singaporeans too.

Slack Uprising: 1 of 3

Slack Uprising: 2 of 3

Slack Uprising: 3 of 3

“ry election. I am sure the same fear strikes our govt every time they call for an election. Worse, if our PM’s GRC failed to win election, the PM-elect will have to give up his seat both in the constituency and govt”
Really ? I thought someone going to call in the army for a freak election ? I think you underestimate what our gov capable of doing.

What is there to fear for government if it think that it has managed well ? Unless it doesn’t then it means it is time for a change in gov. Is it really a bad thing ? Why is it that other countries can do it but only Singapore has so much problem phantomizing about mystical problems ?

The Malaysians, though third world, loves their land too much to allow their country to be dragged through political dirt. So both these countries have a population that cares for their own country too much and voted for change. Apathy is not their way of life. – Gilbert Goh (#8)

Yes. You can see how passionate how Malaysians are with regards to their own country. I implore Singaporeans to watch the following youtube videos in hope that it will dispel your political apathy. We must reclaim ownership of Singapore from politicians. Singapore belong to Singaporeans too.

Slacker Uprising:
1 of 3 – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7i-cjgPwOU
2 of 3 – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdGxXmRFMxE
3 of 3 – http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GdJEJRaMQmo

Americans know what to do when they recognised that their government had betrayed them.

Hope the election is after 2010 so that I can vote.

3) Shaun
What Singapore needs now are credible, strong, capable opposition candidates. Come election time in Singapore, will we see oppositions candidates of such calibre rise up to the challenge? But what are the alternatives now?

7) crazt cynic
No need for election. We know which only party will win. If there is an election, sweeping change is some thing I will never see happen.

It is as important now as it will be for the future, if we stop asking what the alternatives are, or whether they are credible and capable or not, then to work on it and give the alternative a chance to show us what they can do. Without giving the alternatives this chance to prove themselves, we will perpetually be asking the same question and don’t be surprise that your children will be asking the same questions 20, 30 years from now.

When we talk about the calibre of a candidate, are we looking out for the calibre set by the PAP or the calibre set by the people?

Are the people the ones who set the ‘calibre’ at $300,000 a month? Are the people the ones who set the ‘calibre’ at; “We say, you do?”. Are the people the ones who set the ‘calibre’ for talk only, no action required?

Let the people set the calibre and the first and foremost ‘calibre’ ought to be for the people, by the people. Indeed, we, the people, should and must decide, it is not for the PAP politicians nor for the opposition for that matter, to decide.

8) Gilbert Goh Keow Wah
Worse, if our PM’s GRC failed to win election, the PM-elect will have to give up his seat both in the constituency and govt

You are absolutely right about this and this is the way it ought to be. There has to be an element of fear on the politicians, elected to serve the nation and not the other way round.

It has become such in Singapore that we are constantly told that the PAP is indispensable. What nonsense! No one is indispensable. So what if he is LHL, the PM? Would Singapore disappear from the face of the earth if he is defeated? Would Singapore be a headless lion if he is defeated?

The people has to wake up and realise that Singapore is far larger than any mortal man.

You know what? This is the best opportunity for Singaporeans to send out a strong and clear message to the govt to wake up and start looking after the people’s interests. What better way to send this message than to boot the PM out of the face of politics, for good.

I like to give my views about what is best for the long term future of Singapore.

We should move to the Presidential system of Government, as practiced in USA, France and several other countries.

The people should vote for their representative in Parliament, which is required to consider, debate and pass laws. We need legislators to work full time in representing the interest of their constituents. A more active Parliament will better reflect the wishes and aspirations of the people.

They should elect a President separately. The elected President should assemble a team of capable people from within the country to run the country. The future of our country will not be hostage to a “freak election result”. The government leaders (i.e. executive branch) should not be confined to only those who are elected into Parliament.

I hope that the current or next Parliament will serious consider making this consitutional change for the viability and future well being of our nation.

Singapore can only be strong and vibrant, if we are an inclusive society and draw on the best of our people. I also like to see the disbanding of the GRC (group representative constituency) system.

Let us move back to the “old” single constituency system. If necessary,we can find some suitable ways to have representation of the minority races. But, I think that this is not necessary.

I shall give my views separately about what the people can do, if our current system remains unchanged, in getting a Parliament that is more reflective of the aspirations of the people.

My hope is that when the elections are called, ordinary folks like you and me will take an active part in it.

An excellent advice! I think more Singaporeans ought to be politically aware, and this doesn’t mean watching more Channelnewsasia or reading more Straits Times. :)

But above that, I have a higher hope, that people can think carefully and rationally before voting. How oft do we hear of votes that go to PAP because of some fear of loss of job? How oft do we see people voting blindly for PAP without consideration of current issues and policies? How oft do we see people voting blindly against PAP likewise? Or voting for the opposition for the sake of opposition?

Granted, there is always a high percentage of people who would vote for their parties regardless of the situation (just like in the US), but I’m hoping that those not in the bracket – the undecided – can be widened; and these are the people who usually decide the outcome of an election.

In short, vote for PAP if you think they deserve your vote. Vote for other parties if you think they deserve your vote. But don’t decide until Election Day nears.

And on the lighter side, has anyone heard of the paradox of voting? If you’re a rational and pragmatic person, then it’s senseless for you to vote.

8) Gilbert Goh:
Worse, if our PM’s GRC failed to win election, the PM-elect will have to give up his seat both in the constituency and govt.

How can you describe this as a bad outcome? The Lees are a threat to Singapore. Which Singaporean does not feel threatened by Lee Kuan Yew or Lee Hsien Long? If almost every Singaporean feels threatened by the Lees, obviously they are a threat to Singapore. It is time for them to go.

Citizens, please vote wisely. Please boot Lee Kuan Yew and Lee Hsien Long out of parliament!

Personally, I will vote for any decent alternative (trying not to use ‘opposition’) party. When WP sent a young team to ‘fight’ LHL, I was one of the 33% who voted for them.

To help the alternative parties, maybe we can sorta petition to the alternative parties directly, asking them to send a team to come to our constituency. Not sure if TOC is willing to facilitate this?
i.e set up a polling site. For those willing to vote for APs, just check the estate you live in. Do not set up the polling site according to existing constituencies, since they are likely to shift come the GE, to facilitate PAP victories.

The con is of course, that PAP can also view the result and slice the estates to break up the support … but then, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Citizens,
Remember Caveat Emptor when you vote. Vote with Your eyes Wide Open, read the prospectus and fineprint of the ruling party’s mandate. Don’t just ask for good thing, ask what type of risk incurs after voting for the clown eg GST hike, electricity , fare hike, more good years’ hike. Remember what the gov preach to you, if it is too good to be true , it is !
If you vote for the ruling party, and the party disappointed again, please don’t come here to whine again and seek sympathy.

NOw Still hoping for upgrading your flat ?

15) People Observer
Please boot Lee Kuan Yew and Lee Hsien Long out of parliament!

You’re right.
Let’s send LKY away for some serious soul-searching. We might just be doing him the favour of attaining eternal salvation.

Better if we can boot both out at the same time. No good to boot one out while keeping the other. It is too dangerous for Singapore. Imagine the backlash if the remaining one is to go berserk!

In the wake of the financial crisis, I’d a like a little transparency. Most SG govt authorities have very good and apparently healthy balance sheet. However, in cases like the GIC, no balance sheet is provided.

What this means is whilst the govt may have a lot of assets (amounts owing to it), the ability of the debtors to pay is not visible. Hence the govt may have a very good bank statement showing lots of assets, no one really knows how much it can collect.

Like AIG, lehman brothers, Merrill Lynch all have very good balance sheet but failed because of credit crunch.

I’m not saying that the Govt is currently doing illegal or wrong-doings nor am I saying the Govt is doing a bad job. Just that I don’t have sufficient transparency to say it is doing a good job.

As one of the criteria for my vote, I’d like a representative that pushes for greater transparency.

Who can volunteer to witness and check-balance how votes are counted?

Am i right to say alternative parties do not have the sufficient manpower to keep track of all countings?

How has voting been conducted? Any international bodies involved before?

They have started on GE training for the tens of thousands of officials. But these represent which party? Both parties? What party affiliation they have?

It would be great if in the coming election, all citizens get to vote. The lesser the walkovers the more significant and meaningful the win or loss.

Electorate have the responsibility to turn up to vote and cast vote without fear (like fear of losing your job in this Singapore Recession [1st in Asia] ).

When the world has seen many countries changed leadership this year alone, WILL SINGAPORE CONTINUE NOT TO BE CHANGED FOR MORE DECADES TO COME?

Rumour has it that only when that significant event has occured can CHANGE come. I no idea.

I believe these concern is real and need to be addressed and clarified with the public. what say u?

Selamat wong – the ultimate accountable accountant

“We are choosing Change over Fear” – - – - Obama 2008, youtube 03:35
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqoFwZUp5vc&NR=1

i pray someone will stand against the men in white at my constituency…and i will attend all rallies by any decent, credible alternative parties. And I will fast and pray for a breakthrough! Like many, I want to see a CHANGE in the political imbalance…and last but not least i hope to see a MOSES arising from the midst…

Gemami:
When we talk about the calibre of a candidate, are we looking out for the calibre set by the PAP or the calibre set by the people?

Let me clearify it, I meant people.

Calibre: we just have to remember a proverb “Wise men may not be learned, learned men may not be wise.”

Dear lobo76,

Why wait for TOC to do it (asking the opposition to send a team to your constituency)? You could do it. Send them an email. Their email addresses are on their websites. Or you could visit them personally. The WP has an open house every Monday at their HQ in Syed Alwi Road. The SDP is always out there doing their stuff. You could approach them. The NSP too are out selling their party newspapers. And Chiam is always at Potong Pasir. Better still, why not go round your constituency and get support for such a call? Better still, why not join one and help them send a team to your ward?

Dear Politics is what it is,

You are right. The opposition parties do not have enough manpower (at least in the last elections) for counting, polling and election agents. I know that what is most important to them are counting agents – because it is most critical that all votes are counted properly. Counting agents are stationed at counting stations to make sure they are.

You could volunteer as one. :)

Regards,
Andrew Loh

At times like this, we really need someone like Mr JBJ.

With the economic turmoil around, it also means opportunities for change, just like evolutionary process.

Let’s hope Singaporeans & those newly minted Singaporeans have the courage to create such change . Maybe Foreign Talents who had converted to Singaporeans have the talent & courage to fill in the gaps.

Rgds.

No person in this planet is indispensable, without the current PM or some of the ministers from the ruling party, does’nt mean that S’pore will collapse. I’m sure some better candidates can still perform their duties or may be even better. So let make some change for the coming election.

Hi dosometing (2)-Singapore is totalling different from USA, Thailand
and Malaysia.We saw Obama won on the Democrat Party ticket but only 42% of white voted for him and the remaining 58% of white voted for Mccain and Obama received huge Black American votes.In Thailand, I have witnessed the former PM Samak came into power but did not survive long and was disqualified by Thai Court for corruption and I also witnessed streets protests by mob rule.Further, I have witnessed personally the Malaysia General Elction on 8/3/08 and the Permantang Pauh By Election where Anwar won and is now the Opposition Leader of Malaysia Parliament.

Singapore is a very small city state and we cannot afford to be like Malaysia prior to the 8/3/08 where I saw streets huge street protests by Hindraf, Bersih and Opposition. Both Malaysia and Thailand could afford streets protests and mob rule but not in Singapore. What Singapore Opposition must do especially the credible one which I can only bet is the Worker’s Party is put up candidates as good or better than the PAP for the Singaporean voters to chose and I am very confident the Singaporean voters will vote the Worker’s Party and its candidates.We as Singaporeans as voters must use our vote via the Ballot Box and vote candidates of good calibre if the Opposition especially Worker’s Party can offer, we vote them. I have been advocating on this since 2001. Singaporeans must continue to build on what Singapore is today since her independence for our future generations unlike our counterparts in Malaysia or Thailand taking to the streets before and after General Election.

Regards
Andrew Chuah

There are so many good suggestions here that the opposition must be invited in to take a look. They need to absorb all the help given by the people to fight the fight for them.

I therefore hope that the Opposition can come together for once to take on the govt as a whole. This is a good time to push bread-and-butter issues to the forefront and making it THE election issue.

Let’s give it a slogan: It’s Time To Listen To The People
IT’S TIME was the phrase used by our beloved and late JBJ and it cannot be more apt in calling on the spirit of the man to oversee the next GE.

Next we need a common purpose. Forget about fighting the PAP at GRC or constituency levels.

Fight it at the National level targeting a certain percentage to tell the govt that it needs to buck up and start listening to the people.

Fight under one main platform that calls for the electorate to send a strong and clear signal to the PAP that it has to look after their welfare and interests and to make living conditions more acceptable than it is.

Set the strong and clear signal at around 40% of the total votes.

Opposition can either contest in ALL wards and GRCs or selected ones where there is a real chance of garnering no less than 40% of the votes. The idea is to be able to achieve 40% of the total votes.

The people have often been called to give their mandate to the PAP for them to govern. It is time for the people to give their mandate to the Opposition to tell the PAP that the voices of the people need to be listened to.

The Opposition has to be realistic that dissenting voices might not win them anything more than what they already have but pursuing a common line of engagement might just win a few more from the electorate who might want to assist the opposition’s cause to hit the 40% mark.

This might in turn win the opposition more seats in parliament than otherwise possible.

Mine is just a simple man’s strategy. I am sure people in politics long enough can refine it. One thing is for sure, we need to try something different than the usual slug-it-out-in-the-ring kind of fight.

13./11/08
Hi Tan Kin Lian (15)-I read your short posting and I don’t think GRC is a big problem.The problem lies with our Oppostion which has time and time again failed to put up good candidates that is as good or better than the PAP. We have seen all these in the past General Elections and when one of them was in Parliament ,he misbehaved and he resigned abruptly. The bulk of Singaporean voters today are middle class and educated unlike in the 1950s poor and uneducated especially when Lee Kuan Yew was still in Cambridge.I am very confident in our Singaporean voters in exercising their votes in the coming General Elections especially their pockets have been badly burn and hurt with high costs of living in Singapore.

Regards
Andrew Chuah

“Just do it “, don’t let it happen and then said “what to do”

Andrew – what you can do it to resurface the paragraph below posted by smallvoice in the thread “TKL writes to the PM”.

/// 25) smallvoice585 on November 12th, 2008 6.01 pm
It is difficult to hold a politician to his words as he chose those words that are expedient to his purposes on that occasion. It is not expected that he will do as he promised as the situation may have changed and many other considerations may take precedence. Sadly, that is how politics work in the real world. ///

The ruling party perpetuate the myth that they are a bunch of fantastic people hand-picked and scrutinized and sanitized so that they represent the best people to lead the country and there is no credible alternative.

This myth is dispelled by the recent fiascos in times of crisis (see the screw-up article) and the “best” have been found to be wanting.

On the other hand, the Opposition lack a credible and visionary leader who can convince the public that they should vote for him and galvanize the resources (manpower, logistics,etc) to defeat the ruling party. The current Opposition appears to be contented to be just barking dogs and a bunch of screw-ups who often get in trouble with the law.

Hi Ti (32)-My advise is to vote these kind of politicians out should he failed to fulfil what he has promised and we have seen this in Malaysia where the ruling BN and UMNO lost two third majority in Parliament and the Opposition Pakatan Rakyat won 83 seats in Parliament and controlling 5 states ie Kelantan, Kedah, Penang, Perak and Selangor, and even in the USA the American voters voted out the Republican and voted in their first Black President Obama.

Today, Singapore is no longer in the Dark Ages where we depend on the mainstream news ie newspapers and tv and radio,and now we have third party news ie Internet like this one The On Line Citizen,Discuss-Singapore and others.What we need is good Opposition candidates that fight for Singapore and Singaporeans and put Singapore and her national interests first ie above everything else unlike a particular Singapore Opposition Party whose member replied to me early this year ie We need Foreigners to fight the PAP, and this party and its leaders have been taking monies from foreign NGOs (they had admitted in their court papers)and I had called them Quarter Baked. I still bet on the Worker’s Party which is a good party after they got rid of their former Secretary General the late JBJ.

Regards
Andrew Chuah

@25 Andrew

Ultimately, I am only ONE vote. Like the PAP nominees, I think Alternative Party members may be motivated to compete for a constituency, if they are alerted to the likelihood of a good result.

Having a poll, will allow APs to see where there is wider support, and thus a chance of a good showing or maybe even an upset of the incumbent. e.g The Poll shows Sengkang has 100 votes, Marine Parade 1 votes. Then APs should devote resources to compete in the constituency that includes SK, etc.

Ultimately, I have no personal political agenda/direction so I won’t join any party. I just want someone to question decisions made by the govt. Even if a ‘freak’ result occurs, I am pretty comfortable with it, and will see how they do. I will probably be labelled as a ‘Opposition for opposition party’s’ sake, but I am comfortable with that as well. (“,)

Singapore is a very small city state and we cannot afford to be like Malaysia prior to the 8/3/08 where I saw streets huge street protests by Hindraf, Bersih and Opposition. Both Malaysia and Thailand could afford streets protests and mob rule but not in Singapore. – andrew chuah (#28)

Singapore used to have all these street protests and mob rule in the 50s, 60s and 70s. We survived anyway. Please don’t buy into what Straits Times paint on mainstream media. It is only an illusion.

Rite!!! vote the LEEs and those useless MPs whose are there since the last election doing nothing out of the parliament for this election!! This will show all ministers to wake up and serves the ppl and not only there for money! If Lees out we can save million of $$$!!!
We want someone who hear us not ignore us and do watever they like!!!

The first thing we need to change is the use of the term Opposition Party. Why have we been calling all other policital parties other than the PAP as an opposition party?

I’m sure not about you guys but I do think that this term that had been used over all past elections had created a negative impression on these parties and its’ candidates standing for elections.

Like in the US, it’s always the Republican and the Democrats but here in RD, it’s always the PAP and the OPPOSITION…duh!

Dear lobo76,

It starts with one person. Everything does. Remember that.. :) As Mahatma Gandhi once said: “Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it.”

And there is a reason why this is so. One person’s actions can inspire another. And he in turn inspires another…and another and so on.

Never discount what you – one person – can do.

Never underestimate that. :)

Andrew

dosomething on ‘Visual aids’

To add to dosomething on ‘Visual aids’, I certainly would like to see more visual aids going round the internet or whatever, such as cartoons showing a soccer match: the striker kicking into his own goal post (labelled ‘ABC’ or ‘UBS’ or merrill lynch)… as a reminder of the issues that concern many of us here.

To goodsingaporean:

That is right: If Lees out we can save million of $$$.

Let’s make this a key part of the election theme:

‘If the ruling party is out our country will save billions of $’

or something like that…

Singaporeans voted in Lee Bee Wah with no track record.

Singaporeans voted in Chan Soo Sen (thanks for the Suzhou fiasco memories) even with a bad record.

And they lament that our opposition has none.

So far, hasn’t WP’s team established a more credible voice? ps you shouldn’t just read what the MSM reports. Go read what they actually said in Parliament. Not the truncated irrelevant bits the MSM reports as news.

After all is said and done… the question is – are we all willing to put our money where our mouth is? How many of us that comment online with all our wonderful suggestions are willing to take all that has been said offline, into the real world where we live and play a part in this country that we all love?

Of course it won’t be easy, we all have families, work, social life… but who said life is meant to be easy? I’m not belittling everyone’s commitments but if we think life in Singapore is not as it should be, then we all have a responsibility to do something if we want change bad enough.

And if we don’t do anything (the anything need not be a big thing, it could just mean exercising your vote wisely), then I don’t think we want change bad enough. We can talk and whine about things being unfair in Singapore til the cows come home and nothing will ever change.

I don’t really care if the next GE goes to the PAP or to the Opposition. But what I do care about is that people online should start really getting involved in their country. Remember that there are many uncles and aunties out there that are not online and who also think that life is not as it should be in Singapore.

And yes, TOC, I think you’re doing a fantastic job in playing your part :)

Change the GRC. the present 84 electorial consitutuencies (ecs) should be apportioned according to the racial population. e.g. 75% of population is Chinese, 15% Malay, 10% Indian & others. 75%x84 = 63 ecs to be contested by Chinese, 15% x 84 = 13 ecs to be contested by Malays, Balance of 8 ecs to be contested by Indian & Others.

Which ecs to be represented by Chinese, Malay or Indian/others. Draw lots with one group representing the ecs and the other the races. Say, Marine Parade is drawn against Malay, then Marine Parade must be contested by only Malays.

This will ensure proportional minority representation, voters gets a chance to vote for their MPs.

34) andrew chuah

My advise is to vote these kind of politicians out should he failed to fulfil what he has promised

Excellent advice AC, but tell me, how would you vote one out who fails to fulfil his promise if he is hiding behind a GRC?

We seem to use a different yardstick to measure the competency or incompetency of PAP and Opposition MPs. Why?

Take a look at Tharman, convicted in court for breaching the official secrets act, found guilty and appropriately fined. Still gets voted into parliament behind a GRC.
How to vote him out?

How in the world can the PAP entrust him to take charge of the same institution (MAS) that brought him to court for the criminal offence is a question where only the corrupted party can answer.

How is he currently the Finance Minister is an even more difficult question to answer. A convicted criminal looking after state finance. No wonder we needed the Elected Presidency.

The PAP at that time had asked the population to be more sympathetic toward him because it was an ‘honest’ mistake. If it was so honest, then why did the court found him guilty? Is the court wrong? A criminal act is a criminal act.

Tell the PAP to be sympathetic to Gomes for his honest mistake,no? He was ripped apart.

Why should we be so forgiving to the MIW and not to the opposition. Why oh why?

It is no use Pap will win the election. If an opposition candidate who is a good candidate, who is better than the PM, Pap will find all means to destroy him, even you pay $2 less for income tax, they will charge you in court, and disqualify u

Three things irk me no end.

1. A useless govt
2. A useless Alternative
3. A citizen who devalues his power (vote).

Yet, all three can be changed.
And it begins from the bottom up.

3. A citizen who knows that the power in his hands can empower the alternative to put more members into parliament.
2. An empowered alternative that attracts more powerful candidates to challenge the govt of the day.
1. The govt of the day becoming more attentive to its citizens.

Please, don’t belittle your vote – your power.

no.. elections wun be soo soon yet… too many bad news and publicity for the miw… they have not given us goodies to sweeten us yet… but either way, if i have the chance to vote, i know wat to do.. just tat opposition dun contest tanjong pagar grc… i hate those grcs…..

I think the article points out some things thats definitely useful. We as Singaporeans do need to play an active role in the elections way before it even starts. And i agree that it is absolutely necessary.

BUT, i would agree with some post-ers here, that theres only so much we can do. The current Gah-men has absolute control over the varying things that will strongly influence the election outcomes. The GRC, while it is in place to ensure minority participation in Parliament, however, seems to be used as tools to change electoral boundaries, in a suka-suka manner, that will benefit to whoever is in control…

Apathetic behaviour in Singaporeans towards elections i guess comes naturally, when we have quite alot of constituencies becoming walk over constituencies…(may it be GRC, or lack of opposition members or wad not…). We find that we have a lack of control to choose who will represent the people in Parliament.

While Obama won, it must be noted that one of the reasons he won is that he had extensive resources at hand, over McCain. But here in SG, with the press being state controlled, The media options are rather limited. I would suggest maximising the internet of course, but then again, the older folks…(baby boomers…and they are alot ah)…might not find the internet a useful place to gain information…

So how to get involved? When even b4 the game even starts (and i think, this is echoed by the common folk), half of the battle is already won by the people controlling the powers above…

While Obama won, it must be noted that one of the reasons he won is that he had extensive resources at hand, over McCain.

Whether it was Obama or McCain who won the American Presidenttial Election, it told us one important thing. There is a face one can attach to the philosophies of the party they represent.

In the same context, the Alternative in Singapore has to decide who that face is going to be. Once identified, to use this face to campaign on its platform.

See how the PAP does this. They have a few faces to cover each other’s backside. Of the 84 candidates they presented at the last GE, how many of the kuching-kuraps get to go on stage to talk or how many received news coverage? Practically none, yet they won without spilling one drop of saliva. Because PAP always has a face.

The Alternative has to learn all these strategies and use them. Keep your kuching-kurap candidates at the side.

Allow the big guns to take the limelight.

Squabble in private.

Stick to you game plan.

Let’s hope that more Independant candidates contest the next election also. The current situation offers them a good chance too and now is the time to capitalise on it.

45) gemami pointed out a very relevant point on Tharman’s appointment to the Finance Ministry. In my humble opinion, Singaporean don’t queries because most of them had forgotten about the incident or do not know about the incident. It is basically not surprising at all that Singaporeans (most) are ignorant as they are lulled to dream about “bread and butter” issues all the time. And to win the votes, the opposition will need to focus on this “bread and butter” issues and not purely on human rights. You need to connect with the people first and engage the people before linking it up to great issues like political accountability and sanctity of democracy. The challenge for the opposition here is to link bread and butter issues to bigger concepts like accountability and how this affects the people of Singapore. It’s all politics of engagement. I suggest that WP work on this now. Get the populace to be educated on issues before elections. The thing about PAP is they always claim that they fought right legally. Our question would be who’s laws are we judging them against with? Not all PAP MPs are ignorant but almost all of them are ignorant because they lost touch with the people. Why? They compete under the banner of the estbished PAP and therefore need not really prove themselves as the Party would. I seek that citizens query their MPs more on the type of policies they would want to implement in their wars (not GRCs) and how they are going to run their programmes rather than asking PAP perse. We need to know whether the right people is in a “POLITICAL” POSITION. Another point is people need to understand the difference between PAP and the Government. The Government is an entity establish to govern the people according to the people wishes wheareas PAP is a political party competing for the former office. PAP must not be equated to CDC, RCs, PA, CPF and so on and so forth. It’s time that citizens questions how by mixing them all would ensure that the needs of the people and not the elites are taken care of.

Forget about the myth that all PAP candidates are great. The majority are as ordinary as you and me. As for doing away with grcs, I think it would be a waste time to debate this. grcs are here to stay because not all PAP candidates are great.

Hi,

Politics is a no brainer. That’s one reason why history has demonstrated time and again the best people rarely consider it a worthy vocation.

Fortunately, the most purpose driven people in this planet still believe being a world class producer of goods and services is still the most reliable way to seed good in humanity. The Edison’s, Einstein’s and Bill Gates, these are real winners. These people are also the people who I choose to model my life on, not even Obama cuts the grade.

On the home front.

There are just some issues which I am uncomfortable abt. One of them is, f you are so good, then why do you need to keep on telling everyone you are so good?

When was the last time you saw an advertisement for a Rolls Royce or Sevurga Caviar?

I don’t think in the long run its possible to sustain the idea of the infallibility of the A team.

This is common sense, most people don’t see any exceptionality or extraordinary value in the métier of ministers. Neither does the argument, he used to get paid X in the private sector, now he has to make do with X-Y cut any ice either.

If that argument really held true then how do you account for mega salaries of Ken Lay and Richard Fuld? Who between them at their zenith drew roughly the same salary as a mini sized African fiefdom?

My point is people are not stupid; if you say, you are the best in the world; then those who have work experience and who know often run with wolves will demand to know why isn’t Baker McKenzie, Boeing Aeroplane group, John Hopkins or General Motors begging you to be on their board of directors? So there you go, it is a very straightforward.

Neither does the whole idea Singapore is a small country and we can only create one A team cut any ice either – you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to realize the power of one just translates into a monopoly; doesn’t matter, whether it is one newspaper, one chicken rice vendor in a food court or even something as complex as a political party; it’s no good; it doesn’t inure a competitive spirit or even foster a culture of excellence. Instead all it does it sustain the mythmaking to allow them to perpetuate their class politics, very much in the way the Samurai’s once instituted a country band on firearms to perpetuate the cult of the sword – so again, that is a pretty lousy argument that is unlikely to convince any thinking person.

So I think, at the end of the day politicians should just shut up and dedicate themselves to delivering value to the people; no need to talk so much; I dont pay you tax dollars to break dance and rap; just do your work honestly, purposefully and try to deliver on value and quality; at the end of the year we will look at the score card and take it from there; if you are good; you are good to go for another term; if you cannot deliver the goods; then please kindly step aside.

Politcal life I think is very simple, there are no good or bad, just performers and non performers.

SD (Internet Liaison Officer of the Brotherhood)

Perhaps.. online forums are the places where I can see “patriotism” at work. What I can read from the papers is economy for the ruling party. Opps sorry, the last time I celebrated national day was in the year 2003. Ohh, Singapore’s election is near. What is the big deal about that? I do not get to vote. As compared, I am more interested in American election; the world of freeman.

tiredman

talking abt the call in of army, u think we , the army so easy to call in . even we are being call in . u think i will shoot who first ….. think hard before u call in the army,

T, you there?

I am going to print #54) singaporedaddy ’s post and frame it up on my room wall.

You should do so too.

There is light in the Brotherhood after all.

Why do we always see big rallies at Opposition rally but it just doesn’t translate into the voting pattern?

I just found this out when I spoke to my friend recently. My friend says that he and his wife pretty much decide who to vote for. But the moment they received their voting slips, they freaked out when they saw a serial number tied to their name on the registration booklet. So my friend asked what’s the purpose of the serial number? The person-in-charged replied that it is for security reason to ensure that only 1 vote is given to 1 voter. Of cos my friend find the explanation quite crappy. But nonetheless, this small little matter manage to change his wife vote and void his own. And mind you, my friend is an undergraduate working as a manager in the foreign bank.

Cannot imagine how many people changed their mind at the very last minute. Kudos to PAP for such underhand tactics.

Isn’t it sad that even graduates have this fear. And I thought it was the older illiterate generation who were the ones intimidated into fear.

I personally would vouch that the vote is secret.

I have been to almost all the opposition’s election rallies and my face, together with those of my family and friends, have been caught on newspapers and TV, and shown running around shouting out in support of the opposition.

Nothing has happened to me, my family or my friends.

Please get rid of such fear and note in confidence.

For people who are on property loans (HDB or not), prepare for your favourite bank to invoke a margin call on your property loan. If your property is worthed less than what you still owe the bank, you will be asked to “top up” the difference.

Good luck! Remember you voted PAP during the last GE, so you are responsible for your own dire straits. Vote for PAP and suffer under the hands of the PAP. Just like what MM Lee and PM Lee said, I am also telling you the same thing: CAVEAT EMPTOR!

What votes? I have never heard of voting in Singapore before. Is this the first time? Since when had voting taken place? Don’t believe everything. There will be no voting at all, your minds are playing tricks.

YES, count me in. If worker party come to the WEST side of the island. I will help.

62) Dr Albert Winsemius

Me, Me, Me. Me too. Can’t wait for them to come to the west side.

I wish to comment about the “freak election result” – where the People’s Action Party loses the majority of Parliament. Will Singapore go downhill?

Many countries have a change of government every decade or so, and they seem to be able to cope quite well. Progress and economic development may be slower, but the ordinary people appear to cope quite well.

How will Singapore be runned by a new government, if this unthinkable outcome were to happen?

Under democratic systems, the politicial leaders make the policy decisions based on the advice of the civil servants. The civil servants execute the decisions and are monitored by the political leaders.

This arrangement has better checks and balances, and allow more people to be involved in the decision making. It also allows more options to be considered before the key decisions are taken.

If the current civil servants are not prepared (as they are used to taking orders from the ministers) and the new government leaders are inexperienced – then what will happen?

Perhaps, a good solution is for the former and highly experienced civil servants to be called back to serve as advisers to the new government. We do have a wealth of knowledge among our retirees.

Things will be different, but it does not need to spell “disaster” for Singapore. Maybe, there wil be a setback, but Singapore can adjust. Maybe, it will be better for Singapore in the long run, as our political system will be more resilient.

64) Tan Kin Lian

I won’t even want to spend too much time worrying about such a scenario. When a people decides for change, you can bet your last dollar they will be ready and resilient enough to make sure the change they voted for will work out.

Having people like yourself coming back to provide advise to the new govt is an excellent way to go about it.

The problem here will not be the ones who voted in the new govt.

The biggest problem will be faced by those who thought that change would never come and who continue to cling on to a broken vessel.

Wow looks like TOC are already gathering all the online voters here!

I think this time round with the relaxation of internet politics, the ruling party will be given a run for their money. It is especially effective for information gathering and of course rumour mongering. I foresee that this will favour the opposition parties more than the ruling party whose website is still very quiet.

TOC will probably be running at top volume when the GE is round the corner. We do’t have to rely on the ST no more!

TOC can do alot of interviews with the man on the street and of course opposition party candidates. This can only help the opposition parties.

The ground is indeed sweeter now for the opposition than the ruling party. I am unsure how the ruling party can pull out any sweetners to even out the imbalance.

Like many here I think WP is a credible and rational opposition party. They will grow with each election and hopefully we can see at least one GRC goes to their candidates. They deserve it for all the hard work that they have done all these years.

Regarding the threat of tracing votes, I think WP was also worried that many voters were afriad that their votes can be traced. I went to all their rallies during the 2006 GE and LKT kept on emphasizing that voting is secret. If graduates who are educated can be fearful how about the aunties and uncles? I am sure at least 5-8% of the voters changed their mind for fear that their votes can be traced by secret agents.

It is time that a neutral non-bartisan group spread the word around the island during GE that voting is secret. That is something that we all can do here to help people vote more freely.

I can’t wait for the next GE date to be announced…we need a change and we need it badly.

The Opposition WILL NEVER WIN! BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! – physician (#65)

Tan Kin Lian, a used civil servant, wishes to be an “advisor” to Government. Please la Mr Tan, you retire sit back at home and shake leg lah. Don’t “kacau” the Gahmen! – physician (#66)

physician, I hope you don’t represent the typical mentality of a PAP supporter, because if you are truly representative of PAP supporters, it would show that PAP so-called talented leaders aren’t attracting any intellectuals to their cause. Failure to attract high-calibre followers is a sign of weak leadership.

A change of govt often results in a detailed review of past performance. That’s to ensure that incidents like misuse of funds eg Chen Shui Bian, doesn’t occur.

Not saying that PAP govt has misused funds or that its current procedures for avoiding such incidents isn’t working. But having an opposing party doing the checking often results in a more thorough checking.

it has often been thought that the opposition is disunited, the people are uninterested… etc. These are the reasons why many if us think that PAP is still in power. No doubt. There is some truth in all of these reasons. But allow me to propose another view, which isn’t so radical. Another reason why we have been under PAP is that the elites have been united, or at least perceived to be. If we look at what has happened in Malaysia in the past year, there has clearly been intra-elite conflict and disunity. That, I believe, is one of the main reason why the opposition and sectors within society has been able to take hold of the opportunity to break the monopoly of BN in federal politics. Of course, I am not downplaying the discontent of the voters.

At the moment, I have not seen a fragmented elite in Singapore yet. I see no intra-party conflict. I see no competing centers of power within the government. What I am implying is that an elite driven liberalization may play a crucial role. And elite driven liberalization often starts off with some kind of disunity at the top. This situation is not absolute. It could play out very differently. In some cases, the shift from soft authoritarianism may be initiated by other actors, not necessarily elites. It isn’t that elites are interested in liberalization. It is often because some of them see liberalization as a means to legitimize their rule. But they are not always able to control how far and how much to liberalize. The process can get out of control, but that is another story.

Not saying that PAP govt has misused funds or that its current procedures for avoiding such incidents isn’t working. But having an opposing party doing the checking often results in a more thorough checking. – lim (#70)

Sounds like an ideal start for transparency in Singapore. On top of that, we must get rid of social studies, civics education and national education from the national curriculum. Then follow by the liberalisation of student unions and trade unions. The public nuisance act and miscellaneous offence act must be repealed too.

17)PEOPLE OBSERVER ‘GOOD IDEA’
How can you describe this as a bad outcome? The Lees are a threat to Singapore. Which Singaporean does not feel threatened by Lee Kuan Yew or Lee Hsien Long? If almost every Singaporean feels threatened by the Lees, obviously they are a threat to Singapore. It is time for them to go.

Citizens, please vote wisely. Please boot Lee Kuan Yew and Lee Hsien Long out of parliament!

41)GOAL ‘FANTASTIC IDEA’
That is right: If Lees out we can save million of $$$.

Let’s make this a key part of the election theme:

‘If the ruling party is out our country will save billions of $’.

The question is not whether the public will come forward and play an active role.
The more critical question is whether CAPABLE CANDIDATES step forward to be counted.
If there are capable candidates stepping forward, rest assured the public will come forward.

However, if THERE IS NO CAPABLE CANDIDATES (eg, the current batch of opposition), then I believe the public knows what is good and what is bad for them.

They will have to decide on the lesser of the two evils.
1) Vote in an incompetent bunch of opposition and increase the probability of running the economy to the ground and thus, affecting the public’s own livelihood
2) Vote in a competent ruling party that will at least try all means to sustain the economy. Thus, securing the public’s own livelihood.

71) min

A very interesting viewpoint and a lot of truth in it as well.

It is also quite true when you say; “elite driven liberalization often starts off with some kind of disunity at the top”.

Now, how to get them disunited?

You know what they say about monkeys on a tree don’t you?
Chop down the tree, the monkeys scatter.

These monkeys at the top, the higher they are, the harder the fall and when the tree is chopped down. There will be a lot of finger pointing and the broken unity will see new political factions appearing from within this broken group.

Bottomline line is, we still have to hit at the bottom.

for me, nothing to do because my grc belongs to SM

Chop down the tree, the monkeys scatter. – gemami

The opposition should be aiming on how to win MM Lee Kuan Yew’s GRC.

I must say, although I am a regular follower of TOC. Recently, I have noticed this chaps postings who seems to be setting the wake for all to follow @ 54) singaporedaddy on November 13th, 2008 1.10 pm.

I’ve noticed he waits his turn. He rarely machine guns his way. He has his own mind. One shot one kill seems to be his cup of tea. And he goes for the heart. He is careful not to swarm you. Usually he keeps to only one or two points, less it seems is more to this silken tofu. And just in case you think, he may be a tad too overbearing, he even gives you the courtesy to make up your own mind by ending many of his comments open ended. Of course what he does is remove everything except that which he wants you to consider and decide upon.

The structure of his sentences like wet glass, sophisticated, complex and possesing a heaviness hard to pin down. The references rich and textured to even take ones breathe away. The mood preppie but not fudgy.

Yes. I think, I know the type very well. I even have a mental image of him. We are certainly dealing with a very skilfull negotiator who knows the art of conversations inside out and through.

Yet despite his clarity, do you all notice. He never ever states outright which political party he favors. Neither does he openly support Tan Kin Lian. And he even makes no qualms about stating quite openly the strait times should try its best to model itself on Pravda.

So on one hand what we have here is someone who is obviously very intelligent, sharp and conversant, but on the otherhand what does he actually stand for?

I mean. I feel like asking a few point blank questions like. Do you support the SDP or WP or PAP? What is your views concerning Tan Kin Lian and what he is trying to do? Why did you even say that ST should mirror itself on Pravda?

I have so many questions, but this will have to do for the time being. Please. Do humor me laison officer of the brotherhood.

However, I

Does anyone think it might be possible for all opposition supporters to relocate on one side of the island?

Imagine if everyone were to relocate to, say, Marine Parade, Bedok & Changi areas and what this impact would be come election time?

We might not be able to do this for this election but what’s stopping us for the subsequent one. We can help ourselves can’t we.

We can bring change without having to depend on any political parties. Of course the opposition have to show up and stand at these places come election time. Sure win.

75) smk-tan

Ha! I have someone who feels the same way I do. Truth is, I find his postings a real joy to read because it neither offends or defends. You know what I mean.

I have posted a reply to one of his article on the topic The War Between Bloggers And Journalists but he has yet to respond.

I have noticed, like what you have described, that he would just come in, say his piece, and disappears into the darkness . . . yes . . . the word for it is . . . Ghost.

Take a look at my posting there and you’ll know what i mean.

#76, wah liao, impact on house price on one side of island would be jia lat.

Then govt convert from XX GRC to 2 GRC. One on each half split down the middle of the relocation and still no opposition. lol. No thank you.

Hi Gemami

Great minds think alike. Like I said, I know the type and very well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmwnsbwGNJ4

I dont think, I am that far off the mark. I have been following things closely here.

As long as there are a lot of ” walk over ” and the unfair boundries that PAP intend to set, singaporean may have the same 2 opposition seats in parliament.

So, people need to push for the ” change in election rules ” , like what the malaysians did.

Do we have guts to do that first ?

Maybe its just me.

I strongly believe there are more than 20 credible and talents who have not stepped forward. These could form ……erm…..a new football team with spares? ke ke ke… if u know what i mean. ;)

So, why are these not willing to step forward given all the support many are willing to give a calibre?

Maybe it is related to ‘nurture’ and ‘culture’. These giants may wake up only when the most anticipated extinction in local history has happened, if you know what i mean. ;)

Maybe the obstacle existing is deemed too high to overcome by even the talented and high calibre citizens. Maybe these are not leaders?

Digress a little :
1. Did Freedom of Speech destroyed USA or has it produced Obama? Would he have won without Freedom of Speech? What happens if people in usa are not allowed to criticise / question / challenge Bush’s policies?

2. Could Marcos be locked up without Freedom of Speech?

3. Could Bian be locked up without Freedom of Speech?

4. Could S.Korean criminal ex-top official be locked up without Freedom of Speech?

80) jane

The Malaysians are able to do what they did because they already have in existence the presence of strong alternative parties, something which we do not have.

Pushing for change in election rules has to begin with a change in the one party system currently supported by majority of the people.

For people like you and me, our steps have to be very small ones while at the same time we have to be realistic about what we can and especially what we cannot do.

The first step that we must try to achieve is to have more alternative candidates voted into parliament. It doesn’t matter too much what they can or cannot do.

The signal from the people to the rulers, by voting in more alternative members, is enough for the rulers to sit up and treat the people more gently, respectfully and most importantly in a civilised manner. Trampling on the people must stop.

We must remember that this is not a fight to overthrow the PAP regime. Not yet. We, the people must use our votes to talk to the PAP govt. They have been hard on hearing and it is the only way we can be loud enough for them to sit up and listen to us.

This should be our immediate aim and short term goal. The rest will follow eventually once we are able to take this first step.

We need more pple to contest in those stupid GRCs….half of the time it’s not because everyone like PAP, it’s because nobody contested them, unbelievable!

We must remember that this is not a fight to overthrow the PAP regime. Not yet. We, the people must use our votes to talk to the PAP govt. They have been hard on hearing and it is the only way we can be loud enough for them to sit up and listen to us. – gemami

I don’t completely agree with everything you say here. Singapore obviously needs a non-PAP cabinet now, and not a change of heart within the PAP. It will never happen.

Singapore obviously needs a non-PAP cabinet now, and not a change of heart within the PAP. It will never happen : Donaldson Tan

Read: “This should be our immediate aim and short term goal. The rest will follow eventually once we are able to take this first step.”

I made the suggestions based on the quite foregone conclusion that the alternatives will not make an overnight govt. Realistically, the next best thing would be for the PAP govt to take heed that their end is at hand. And we do this by voting in more alternative candidates.

I agree that the PAP will never have a change of heart but when they have a big chunk of their power taken away all of a sudden, they would do well to behave, whether they want to or not, whether they like it or not.

It is on this basis that I suggested the realistically achieveable small steps.

Unreplied Questions
“Maybe the obstacle existing is deemed too high to overcome by even the talented and high calibre citizens.”

Ya loh. Talented and high calibre citizens are not afraid of like-minded talent and high calibre people. You know what they are afraid, they are most afraid of stick, espcially from people who do not have real talent and calibre, but who know how to show off their big stick. ke ke ke. you know what I mean.

“So, why are these not willing to step forward given all the support many are willing to give a calibre?”

Do not be so worried. Time has no beginning or ending. Only men have. When it is time to come. It will come.

I have read through most of the comments here and have concluded the following:

Tangibles:

1. Ability to prevent a walk over if our oppisition parties find enough candidates. I think WP has paraded a few good men during GE 2006 and I believe they will continue that good form. Most opposition parties will try to fill in enough candidates so there won’t be a clean sweep so called even before voting is cast.

2. Ability to win at least a GRC. This is highly probable given the adverse ground shift and sentiment. If the fear factor that your votes can be traced is removed, this is a high probability. I think the same Aljunied and East Coast GRC will continue to see a tough hard fight.

3. Ability to use the internet for political advantage. If this is truly allowed, the opposition parties will stand to gain more than the ruling party who has all along enjoy adequate media coverage however biased.

4. Ability to use HLP as extra political coverage. Some parties or non-partisan groups like TOC can use the HLP for additional coverage.

Intangibles

1. GRCs will remain and there is no two way about it. If the ruling party decides to remove all SMCs and change all into GRCs there is precious little that SIngapore can do. Opposition parties need to be nimble and exploit the loops holes behind every change. There is no point whining about bias and disfavour.

2. Change of govt – this will be almost impossible given the political climate of our country and may even be disastrous for the nation. It is worse than UNMO losing the GE though they still retain the simple majoirty to form a govt. This is not for this coming GE yet.

3. An uprising of election fever – GE 2006 political rallies were all pretty well attended. Crowds of 5000 to 6000 was common at opposition parties rallies. However, we all knew the story too well. I think the next GE may see an unprecendented outpouring of national sentiments though not all will be against the ruling party. There may be more people wanting to get involved in politics besides standing as candidates for election. Nevertheless, I doubt that this will sweep the country as happened in countries such as Malaysia, Thailand or the US. We are still too politically apathetic to rise up as one country for a common cause.

Nevertheless, the opposition should be glad that the ground is sweet for them during this period. They should seize the opportunity fast before the tide turns.

Gemami:
“It is also quite true when you say; “elite driven liberalization often starts off with some kind of disunity at the top”.

Now, how to get them disunited?”

Disunity comes from within and I suggest it is hardly easy to predict when it will come. It is always curious to know when something will happen. But I am not a fortune teller. I cannot see into the future and I cannot predict what will happen. I do not think anybody can, unless there are really telling signs. Nobody could predict the kind of opposition gains in Malaysia this year before the elections. Wasn’t it?
It is always tempting to want to know when things will happen.
If you are interested in reading about elite driven transitions, try this book “Transitions from Authoritarian Rule: Tentative Conclusions from Uncertain Democracies”.

13/11/08

Hi Donaldson-Just finished work. I read your posting (84) and let me add this ie “Other Singapore Oppostion parties must totally revamp like the Worker’s Party did ie got rid of their former Secretary General the late JBJ, and now this party is in good hands under Ms Sylvia Lim, a lady of calibre and doing alot in Parliament but as a lady, she has her limitations” What the Opposition needs a new calibre leader perhaps a Singapore Anwar Ibrahim to lead and he must have exceptional caliber and not a Running Dog for the foreign NGOs and taking moneis from these foreign NGOs and fight as an authentic Singaporeans and not what one of the members wrote to me ie “We need the foreigners to fight the PAP-at first I was asking myself what and who foreigners and these foreigners turned out to be ex opposition candidates who stood for the previous General Elections and now living in exlied and they accepted foreigner citizenship and we saw recently one of them came back as a US Citizen and challeged the PAP government and thought the US government would send their marines to rescue him which they did not and he went to jail.

What Singapore Opposition needs are candidates who are equal or better than the PAP and responsible in their actions and not simply hurl unfounded and unsunstantiated facts which we had seen being done by one particular Opposition Party and its leaders which was brought to court and they had to pay huge damages and perhaps it is better for the Singapore Opposition, this Opposition Party is winded up for good.

Regards
Andrew Chuah

13/11/08

Hi Donaldson, Further to my posting (90) this calibre Singapore Opposition leader must put Singapore and her national interests above everything else, even his own family (similar to what Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew and his old guards did) and national interests refer to (a) Internal Security Act and (b) Death Penalty for Capital Punishment and Drugs Traffiicking, these two are very important to ensure Singapore remains safe and crime free nation and does notg simply oppose what the PAP Government has done since Singapore independence but continue to add value. Yes, he can fine tune those policies of the PAP Government which has flaws should he and his party comes to power one day or should he and his party win a significant seats in Parliament, work with the PAP Government to fine tune their Policies which are flaws.

Regards
Andrew Chuah

88) min

I certainly agree that disunity from within would be the most damaging but I do not see this as a possibility at the moment. Unless something suddenly arises like for example LKY leaving us for good, I see the vested interests within the party and its members as too strong a bond to be broken for now.

For this reason, I feel that the best option would be for the people to destabalize their foundation, bit by bit. We must try new and unorthodox ways because battling them as we have always been doing has gotten us no where.

This is also why I have always maintained that we must take small steps but making sure we make inroads at the same time and add a whole lot of patience to it.

Finally, it seems like there is a lot of reading to catch up on these days. Thanks for the reccommended read.

85) gemami on November 13th, 2008 4.45 pm
I made the suggestions based on the quite foregone conclusion that the alternatives will not make an overnight govt. Realistically, the next best thing would be for the PAP govt to take heed that their end is at hand. And we do this by voting in more alternative candidates.

I agree that the PAP will never have a change of heart but when they have a big chunk of their power taken away all of a sudden, they would do well to behave, whether they want to or not, whether they like it or not.

Yes Gem, you are absolutely right, we should not be too concern about whether the alternative parties can do a better job or not at this time. This is only just the beginning stage to tell the PAP who give you the rights to treat the citizens like your ATM machines when you have already “closed” up all our entire cpf saving accounts of the citizens, and still have the arrogance to tell us off our face that you need not have to report to anyone what you are doing all these years behind our backs. We thought that Thaksin is bad enough, OMG!

Oil price has dipped below US$56 now, do the garment give a shit? they just pretending the electricity hike got nothing of their concern and go on profiteering from the people.

“We thought that Thaksin is bad enough, OMG!”
Thaksin and Chen ShuiBan are not even a dynasty, they are just a tiny peanuts compared to Dynasty. Thaksin and Chen are even afraid of the citizen, but Singapore citizen are afraid of dynasty and enunch.

In China during the opium War, Dowager Cixi built the world-class expensive Imperial Summer Palace Complex only to be burnt by the invaders
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Summer_Palace
In Singapore during the financial crisis, the emperor built the world’s most expensive Casino resort , only to be “burnt” by foreigners (threaten bankrupty if no money injected into the project). Ouchh… that is awesome lot of taxmoney burnt !
Instead of using money to build substance, they use it to build image ! Isn’t that how the Qing dynasty crumbled ? I seeing a repeat of history here.
Long live the emperor ! Wan Shui Wan Shui Wan Wan Shui !

Goodness me, can’t really imagine what could happen to all these self created elites should the people of singapore managed to over powered them, hopefully in time to come, I think coming next GE, most of them are already prepared to fled the country when their party lost to the other alternative, this is very serious crime duh, if found guilty.

the people jus want them out together with all their heartless money squeezin policies.fed up with their threats and empty promises. At least they won’t suffer the same fate as the aristocrats did durin the french revolution when they are out.

Believe it.
Here is one party that will self-destruct should they ever lose an election. Can you ever imagine the number of skeletons in the closet?

It does not have to lose every seat, 51% will do and the reamining 49% will automatically vacate their seats because the real court of law will come after them.

Truth will be set free then.

alky, am not saying that they will face the same fate as those aristocrates but see what happened in thailand now, the people still pushing hard in pursuing the arrest of thaksin overseas even he has already fled the country, well at least this guy do not offend the IBA nor any other foreign human rights bodies, so he is still in safe hand in foreign land, in the name of justice, am I right?

68) min : “And elite driven liberalization often starts off with some kind of disunity at the top.”

There was a disunity in the 50s or 60s. Some socialists split from PAP to form another party. But these guys were out-witted by LKY and sent to prison.

Correct me if I am wrong. I am not of that generation; but only recall reading some post in some forum; it could even be here.

and don’t forget the new generation lions here in singapore are the highly brainic ones who goes by the book unlike the thais duh!

Hi,

Change? Change for the sake of change? Let stop for a while and consider a few brass tacks here. For instance, what really accounts for the impulse for change? Have you all considered?

Permit me to share with you all what I think.

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out what’s happening here in blogosphere and why many of us even harbor a deep spirit need to effect “change” or feel the pull to be part of it; it’s really very simple and follow me please; this becomes all too clear, when we begin to tack the growth and behavior of the new expressive strain of characters which makes up the new Singaporean internet identity.

What do we see?

For one we remain very much avid consumers of lifestyles and thoughtware. The ONLY problem is the vast majority of us (netizens), don’t want anything to do with the idea of placing themselves in the narrow strata of mainstream Singaporean society – that’s to say most of us feel the need to differentiate ourselves from the mainstream – you could even say, this urge is primordial, it operates at a subsconcious level and like fingernails growing, it hardly riles us sense and sensibilities, till it begins to gnaw at us very suddenly – you could even say, it’s part and parcel of the human condition – as such what we really desire is not only products that can reflect our individuality, but if possible, we even aspire towards mindsets which are markedly different from the conformist world.

But there is a problem here…yes there is.

You see there is only one problem with this insatiable craving; only the marketing manifesto can satiate it; not government. You could even say my friends, government was never designed to that fulfill that sort of deep seated craving.

The problem sharpens, when we buy into the notion government can and will be able to fulfill that innate need to supply change very much in the way an ice cream parlor offers us limitless variety and choice.

If that occurs, then it’s even arguable, it relegates the very idea of government into something akin to predicating the relationship between state and citizenry to something that very closely resembles the elusive smile of a Cheshire cat; its big on the wow factor but pastry light on the substance. And if that’s the case then we would all have to seriously consider whether it would not be better if we simply outsourced the whole idea of government to Coca-Cola or Victoria Secret’s underwear division.

Because ONLY firms who subscribe to the marketing manifesto can fulfill that sort of highbrow demand.

You see my friends, the role of government has to be serious if it is to remain effective and useful; it cannot be based on the short term need for change for the sake of change; neither should it even try to ape the form without the content by buying into the cool factor by break dancing or rapping; it must be firmly predicated on the long term and the very serious where instead of sound bites, there must be an active dialogue between citizenry and state.

Any other way is no good; it simply just doesn’t come around. You decide.

SD (Internet Liaison Officer of the Brotherhood)

#101
“For one we remain very much avid consumers of lifestyles and thoughtware. The ONLY problem is the vast majority of us (netizens), don’t want anything to do with the idea of placing themselves in the narrow strata of mainstream Singaporean society – that’s to say most of us feel the need to differentiate ourselves from the mainstream – you could even say, this urge is primordial, it operates at a subsconcious level and like fingernails growing, it hardly riles us sense and sensibilities, till it begins to gnaw at us very suddenly – you could even say, it’s part and parcel of the human condition – as such what we really desire is not only products that can reflect our individuality, but if possible, we even aspire towards mindsets which are markedly different from the conformist world. ”

Well put!!! I’ve tried to express what you’ve written before but I could never find a succinct and accurate enough way to do so. Obama-mania in Singapore is good evidence of this.

In differenciating ourselves from the MSM/mainstream viewpoints, there is no doubt we feel ‘more in the know’, creating a ’separate universe’ for ourselves where only we exist and we feel like we’re out of ‘the matrix’ while everyone else is still plugged in. I feel it sometimes myself, and it does feel good. In responding to every article with an ‘alternative viewpoint’, we make outselves feel (Dare I say it) superior.

Not possible.

After Serangoon Gardens Saga, I ahd changed my mind and my order of preference is:

1st Choice – Any PAP candidate
2nd Choice – Ah Meng
3rd Choice – What choice do I have?

GE2006 started brightly as I see Goh Meng Seng and Chia Ti Lik and Yuaw Shi Leong and Young WP as sincere politicians trying to make a difference.

I was glad that at AMK GRC they had such a fine showing getting more than the naitonal average against PM Lee and the Forgettables.

And within touching distance of Aljunied GRC, WP natural hunting ground as it abuts Hougang.

And I believe in WP to grow from GE2006 and slowly tok the first step to evolve from oppostion party into Alternative Party.

What happen?
They fragmented, snatching defeat from Jaws of Victory; like SDP after winning 3 seats.

And where a truly oposition party will not have no fear to make hay over unpopular government decision like locating a worker dormitory at Serangoon Gardens of Aljunied GRC, there is certainly not a peek out of WP, in support of those 30+ % that voted for them in GE2006.

And there is that I crossed the Rubicon and decided that Opposition in SIngapore is as useful as a udder on a bull.

I felt completely betrayed by WP in not making a public stand, even at Hong Lim Park, on Serangoon Gardens Worker Dormitory.

My only hope is Internal Insurgency within PAP; that those Millenials will start to evolve PAP in readiness for a post-Lee Kuan Yew Era. Certanly Lee Kuan Yew wi not live forever, but the main isue within PAP is now how to prepare for a psot-Lee Kuan Yew Era.

My wish now is for Lee Kuan Yew to live as a minimum to 2015, when the present Gloabl recession will hopefully be over and Global Economy starts to recover.

The demise of Lee Kuan Yew before GE2011 will certainly have an immense effect on our Eocnomy, our flaling SGX and falling investors’ confidence as during this troubling time, Le Kuan Yew is Singapore, and Singapore is Lee Kuan Yew.

Forget about GE2011, it is most likely 84-0 as the FEAR FACTOR in whatever form iswell and truly set in teh psyche of SIngaporeans, with the recent slew of litigaiton suits not helping timorous SIngaporeans, after 3 generations of “perfect” apolitical breeding, is in no betetr posiiton to vote for Opposition.

Work towards GE2016 as a more viable target to field credible opposition candidates whoa r more in-tune with aspirations of working-class Singpaoreans or that 90% HDB dwellers…the mainstay of PAP political power in tandem with NTUC which means labour unions solidly behind PAP.

Give me an opposition andidate whoa re in-tuen with SIngpaoreans’ aspiraitons, local issues and not some high faluting high ideals like HUMAN RIGHTS and DEMOCRACY where average SIngpaoreans are passionate over narrow local issues liek worker dormitory at Serangoon Gardens, Lee Bee Wah gaffe in Beijing, ERP, CPF Life, etc.

You talk of DEMOCRACY? Freedom fo political expression?

Tell me, how many HDB dwellers recognise DEMOCRACY even if it jumps up and bite ‘em on the nose?

Concentrate on uneasy employment, high cost of livings, flat salaries for decades, increase competition for jobs from foreigners, high transport and utilities bil, “mean testing, CPF Life, etc…adn you are talking the language of 90% of SIngapore voters.

Of what use is political opposition when they are invisible when Sngpaoreans need them the msot to make a stand in this climate of uncertain employment, and how to feed their families with the eprceived unfairness of PAP Govenrment Policies of “ZERO SUBSIDIES TO RPEVENT CRUTCH MENTALITY”?

Where they can afford to spend US$1-billion and more on shining new toys called F-15 so that we can all “aahed” and “oohed” at every NAtioanl Day Parade flypast ; where they can’t afford to coug out S$220-million per annum to give the 26,000 and 30,000 85-year old Singaporeans a social welfare cheque of S$600 pm?

And yet their life-long savings, called CPF Fund, are consificated to the tune of 25% as “financial punitive punishment called CPF Life” for daring to live beyond their national average life-span of 78 to 81 year old?

And as it is a fait accompli and a sheer waste of time fo Oposition to pursue this amtter, so I see opposiiton as a sheer waste of tiem and space in Parliament.

I am sure I’ll be doing something when the time comes but for now, I am dreaming that Chiam See Tong will offer his ward to Sylvia Lim and lead a contest in a GRC with some younger powerhouses from amongst the alternative parties.

Maybe my idea of a GRC contest is wrong. Could someone help me out here?
Must a GRC be contested by a Party? Can Individuals from different parties come together to contest?

Dear Shaun (on November 13th, 2008 2.38 am )

You should know by now that the PAP intimidates, sue, jail and bankrupt the able opposition members who are vocal. They leave the stupid ones make a fool of themselves.

I thought you should be smart enough to notice this obvious dirty tactic.

To lai CF/Sugardaddy

I see your point as I am also concerned that our opposition parties are not up to the mark. I feared that as with many other political parties worldwide, there are serious infighting within each party. Remember Chiam the founder of SDP was kicked out of his own party by maverick CSJ and you will sense the bloodletting going on internally. Politics are dirty even in those opposition wards.

But what are we voting for? More opposition parties’ candidates into the Parliament to act as a check on the govt or sending a strong signal that the ground is pissed off so please wake up?

Do we really want a change in the governance here? I don’t think anyone here wants that to happen as yet. Seriously, the ruling party is not doing too badly if you measure them against governments surrounding us. We have food on the table, flexible transportation, peace, stabilty, jobs (scant now) and harmony. This cannot be said of many other countries. That is probably why the Chinese from China, Indians and many others congregate on our small shore for work and maybe long term stay.

I have worked in China before and many people I know wanted to move overseas especially to our country. They smell the opportunity here and would even pay thousands of dollars (often borrowed) to move abroad. They felt stifled and trapped in their own land and secretly I also told myself behind their back that I felt the same way when I am in Singapore. I felt more care free in China and the country to me presented alot of opportunities for trade and business. The average Chinese there do not see this in their own country! They saw a govt that is intimidating (communist) and not caring enough for the people. Sounds familiar? What a shocking paradox!

I guess we have to ask ourselves as Sugardaddy so aptly put across – what kind of change do we want? Are we all the anti-estbalishment kind who will not be easily satisfied in any country we are in the world? In any country, there will be this 10-15% group who will always clamour for change even if there is this so called “perfect” govt in place. They always wanted more and nothing will appease them. Even if in the next GE, we manage to get a team of GRC opposition candidates into Parliament, there will still be issues as we are not easily satisfied. There will be other issues to argue about.

I think this article should be re-phrase;
“What CAN You Do, when the Election Comes?”

Now, now, my dear lai CF, it’s good that you’ve been following the WP since the last GE, or so it seems that’s what you are trying to tell us.

The report card you’ve given to the WP is also seemingly, and in short, ‘FAIL!’. And the reason you failed the WP was because:

And where a truly oposition party will not have no fear to make hay over unpopular government decision like locating a worker dormitory at Serangoon Gardens of Aljunied GRC, there is certainly not a peek out of WP, in support of those 30+ % that voted for them in GE2006..

Fine with me if that’s the way you look at it to come to your decision where you will make PAP (any candidate) your first choice come election time.

My question to you is:
“do you think you’ve been fair to yourself if not for the choice you’ve decided on?”.

You did mention LHL and the Forgettables.

Why have you not judged this group you have termed ‘Forgetables’?. Are they so forgettable that you’ve decided to vote for them because they are forgetably hidden behind the coat tails of LHL?

Why not take you assessment deeper and more wide-ranging than the limit you’ve set for yourself on the WP members only?

Why do you feel completely betrayed when you see the WP being so silent on the Serangoon Dorm issue and you don’t feel betrayed by a group of ‘fogettables’ you’ve voted into parliament who did nothing of the same?

A sane and balanced mind will tell you to exercise the same rule of measure for both, won’t it? If you feel betrayed by one, you ought to feel betrayed by the other.

Now again, because of this, it became useless for me to read you other portion of your post, for you see, this is the type of post that tries to play on the opposition’s side but in fact are those that serve the PAP’s cause instead.

In case, you’re getting lost, I shall use a very simple phrase where I am sure you will understand what I am saying in all clarity:

” You have been identified as a wolf in sheep’s clothing”.

Hoping for LKY to live till 2015, my, my.
I sure hope your wish come true and tonight at 2015hrs we can received the happy news that LKY has left us for good.

You also said: My only hope is Internal Insurgency within PAP;

My little toe at the left side of my right foot is laughing non-stop when I read this. Insurgency indeed. More like the collapse of the MIW.

Now you are telling us that your only hope is in the B team. You see why my little friend is laughing? Do you know what you have just implied? That the A team is not doing it’s job! Don’t you feel betrayed at all?

Now that I have identified you for who you are, I shall show proof:

Lee Kuan Yew is Singapore, and Singapore is Lee Kuan Yew.

Can we now have everyone stand up please. Let’s sing the National anthem together:

“Mari kita rakyat Lee Kuan Yew sama sama menunju…. bahagia…”

and now for the pledge ……

“We the citizens of Lee Kuan Yew…..”

See how my toes are now beginning to laugh in unison?

The rest is not even worth mentioning.

This is the best PAP can offer . . .dah!

[...] November 14, 2008 · No Comments My 11st November muse was amazingly prescient yet blindsided at the same time. Chua Lee Hoong writes a portent of doom advocating an incumbent government, and the next day the Elections Department is gearing up. The talk of the town now is, will we have an early snap election? [...]

wa gem ! I like your style man . . . . want to start a new party or not, maybe can join you lah.

Well, the tell tale signs are there . . .MSM big guns will be coming out one by one . . . did you see Ramesh recently? . . . fully coloured page… time to sharpen their knives man, if you ask me.

Aiyah! tiredsingaporean, you flatter me too much. Poeple like me are better behind the scene. Limelight too bright lah. The future, perhaps.

nah lah! you are good gem, I didn’t flatter you seriously, you’ve just FLATTENED that guy outright! haha

113) tiredsingaporean

actually i got tired midway writing that post.

I still haven’t touch on why he keeps harping on LKY instead of LHL, the currrent PM. He implied a lot of things didn’t he? LKY is in control, not LHL. What does that make of LHL? A puppet on LKY’s string?

Then we can also put one and one together. Remember assortative mating? So that the smart ones can become puppt masters and their offsprings their puppets. See, so many things we can associate with that post alone.

I’m beginning to become another very tired Singaporean.

precisely even the way this guy every sentence he wrote earlier like macham ‘hail to LKY, hail to LKY, you are my god, you are my saviour . . .bla bla and I was wondering who is this person coming from . . . you know what I mean, even if I want to praise my own dad I won’t do that to this extreme lo. . .
so never mind since now you are tired, then I can start my TSP huh, tired singaporean party . . . haha

Gemami/Tiredsingapore

There is every reason to believe that the next GE could be mid next year or even earlier given the current crisis we are in.

For those who wanted a change, this is the time to plan through what you want to do when the GE is call. We won’t have much time to plan ahead when the govt announces as it will probably be a snap one – that is 1-2 weeks of public rallying before the polls come. The govt will want to seek another fresh 5-year mandate to see that it will stay in power till at least 2015.

Stockholm Syndrome galore…

117) Amused

Stockholm Syndrome galore… and the blame goes to ………..?…………..
………… the usual suspect ………. does it not?

116) Gilbert Goh Keow Wah on November 14th, 2008 10.53 am
ya, thanks gilbert for your concern and of course we or infact by now most of the people here in sg already knew what can happen or going to take place soon in the coming election, and believe me in the name of juctice in singapore, you know how dirty politic can be.

68) min : “And elite driven liberalization often starts off with some kind of disunity at the top.”

Find this in Wikipedia about PAP
QUOTE
The PAP has held an overwhelming majority of seats in the Parliament of Singapore since 1966, when the opposition Barisan Sosialis (Socialist Front), a left-wing group that split from PAP in 1961, resigned from Parliament after winning 13 seats following the 1963 state elections, which itself occurred months after a number of their leaders had been arrested in Operation Coldstore. The resignation left the PAP as the only major political party. In the general elections of 1968, 1972, 1976, and 1980, the PAP won all of the seats in an expanding parliament. Opposition parties have not held more than 4 parliamentary seats since 1984.
END-QUOTE

So there was split of elites in the early years of PAP.
PAP may have learnt the lesson so that nobody nowadays could split from it.

103) lai CF on November 14th, 2008 2.35 am

Better stick to your 1st choice lah because you do not have any choice lah.

Ha Ha,
After reading more than 120 comments, I have not seen one committed to something he/she will DO.
So its all TALK only.
Please don’t look at me, I quitted long ago to a far away land, but its still fun reading blogs like TOC. And if anyone really do ACT, you have my moral support from afar.
To hell with PAP!!!

122) Ah Siao

Aiyah! don’t say like that lah.
There are many many coded language here you know.
If not ah, let the cat out of the bag . . then how.
Cannot win, never mind. Kenna trash, after that where got morale?

Same, same, I say with you…
To hell with PAP!!!

After reading more than 120 comments, I have not seen one committed to something he/she will DO. – Ah Siao (#122)

I would love to run for GE but I don’t fulfil the residency requirement for GE candidate. GE candidates must have 10 year residency in Singapore prior to GE. I have spent a number of years abroad and the earliest GE I can run for in view of this requirement is 2021. Such is life, but I intend to help out as an election agent for the Opposition.

Hah, #124, thats a good start.
I do not know about those election law.
But how come, PAP candidates like Chan Soo Sen and David Lim, they can spent a few years in Suzhou, China and come back to Sin and be elected right away?

125) Ah Siao: “But how come, PAP candidates like Chan Soo Sen and David Lim, they can spent a few years in Suzhou, China and come back to Sin and be elected right away?”

All men are equal, but some men are more equal than others.

Germani,

REcession next 5 years like 1973s. lie 1980s, like 1997, like 2001 and now 2008/09.

You want to talk politics or you want to talk about feeding your family where it is now 100% of my attention.

“A wolf in sheep clothings”?

or

I practice devil advocacy but does worship the Devil.

Put it this way, Serangon gardens Saga….so the “Forgettables” betrayed the people,a dn wht is WP going to do about ti when they are so convincing that they will win Aljunied GRC in GE2006?

Why no follow up since GE2006 to strengthen the belief that they can win Aljunied GRC in GE2011?

How do you convince now, a dsigruntled PAP Supporter like me to vote for Opposition where really they are completely invisible when they needed to be high profiled.

SO, you claimed that Serangon Gardens residents in Aljunied GRC deserved what they cut for votign PAP?

COnversely, then PAP is correct sin’t it when Hougang residents and Potong Pasir residents deserved what they get for voting in the ‘Forgettables”?

Think of it that there was a buzz an such high hopes prior to GE206, that WP was going to make a different and will grow and perhaps evolves into Alternative Party, that was the future plan of WP, starting in 2005 at their Syed Alwi Road Hd-qtr.
And I ahd no qualm on supporting WP then..in 2005.

fast forward to 2008..

I am compeltely disenchanted by WP and the disunity shown by politicla opposition when really, only two politicla parites can survived i Singapore:

PAP vs “The rest”.

Inetrnal Isnurgency/
Knwo your hsitory.

For every Stalin, thee is always a Gorbachev.
For every Mao Tse Tung, there is always a Deng Xiao Ping.

Fore eveyr lee Kuan yew…there si always…….certainly not Chee Soon Juan, CHiam See Tong or Low Thia Khiang.

ANd come GE209 or GE2011,

You lots of anti-PAP here, what can you offer Singpaoreans struggling to fnd a job to feed their fmailies?

Just talk, talk, talk and oppose any pollicies sof PAP right?

I will rather vote for Ah meng that any clowns that today styeld themselves as “Oppostion”.

“Why no follow up since GE2006 to strengthen the belief that they can win Aljunied GRC in GE2011?”

Need police permission or not to do follow up it in Aljunied GRC ? Can somebody tell me.

“I will rather vote for Ah meng that any clowns that today styeld themselves as “Oppostion”.”

Ah meng or clown or a piece of salivating sponge or a piece of used tissue paper will do as long as it is there to as a moderating and balancing force.

No fish prawn also can. When you have enough prawns then you can start to be picky and selective about fish. Maybe you need to see prawn first before you can see the fish. This strategy is always being practised.

Unfortunately, I can’t even see a prawn nowaday.

i thought I saw an ikan bilis in 2005 at Syed Alwi Road.

Anyway, my perception si that is is wholly 99% anti-PAP, each and everyone of you patting your back on your anti-PAPism till your arms are wrenched out of their sockets.

Well, I decided to inject pro-PAPsuports over here and willingly to stand condnemned as a “PAP running dog” like you some forums.

better to make a stand, rather than sit on the fence. it will only hurts your buttends.

Good days to you all People, ahve a nice weekend.

it si realty nice to be given an opportunity ehre to banter with you all al through our views differed completely, although my points are amateurish as compared to you all “professional” politicians and learned political activists trying to build a better SIngapore.

Singapore for Singaporeans.

Hah, #124, thats a good start.
I do not know about those election law.
But how come, PAP candidates like Chan Soo Sen and David Lim, they can spent a few years in Suzhou, China and come back to Sin and be elected right away? – Ah Siao (#125)

Exception to the rule is that you spent the years abroad as a civil servant or a member of the armed force. The law is biased because the PAP is aware that many Singaporeans who had left Singapore are definitely in no agreement with PAP and its policies.

129) lai CF on November 14th, 2008 5.04 pm
“Unfortunately, I can’t even see a prawn nowaday. i thought I saw an ikan bilis in 2005 at Syed Alwi Road.”

Well, the problem lies with you my friend. Do you have a piece of tissue paper then ? Seek and you shall get. Orelse stick to your 1st choice.

“Well, I decided to inject pro-PAPsuports over here and willingly to stand condnemned as a “PAP running dog” like you some forums.”

A lot of us are already full of such injections since 1965 without even needing you to lift your finger . About the doggy part, you said it yourself and a lot of people will oblige.

“Singapore for Singaporeans.”

Yeah. Singapore for Singaporeans. Can you believe this ? Aiyoh. Find the prawns first, then come back again.

to Gilbert: what are the reasons to believe that the next election is so soon? personally, i think that the PAP would want to play safe and wait out the 5-year period:

1. inflationary pressures have been extraordinary the past two years, and they need time for these to ease.
2. the IR will be opened soon and they would like to claim “credit” for “building” our economy thus.
3. there has been too much talk about “change” in political scenes lately – Obama’s win and Malaysia’s opposition. better to let pple forget over time.

Thanks for your answer #130. So #126 Anon was actually right, some are more equal than others?

Good luck to all you guys in SIN!
To hell with PAP!!! HaHa

13/11/08

Hi Hey ikan bills man (131)-You are right in posting this “Singapore for Singaporeans’, let me add this “Singapore is our only home for all Singaporeans and tell me how many Singaporeans can MIGRATE or CHOU LOH to a third country less than 10% and the rest of the 90% must continue to stay behind and let us exercise our vote via t he Ballot Box in the coming General Election and vote for credible and world class Opposition Party such as the Worker’s Party, their leaders and candidates. I have seen this party a truly revamped party who can further add value to what Singapore is today since her independence. under Ms Sylvia Lim.As Singaporean, we must be very focus and objective and not mislead by QUARTER BAKED Opposition parties and their leaders who are Running Dogs for those foreign NGOs and one particular Opposition Party recently calling for Civil Disobedeince in Singapore which failed.Majority of the foreign NGOs don’t want to see Singapore always doing well and they want to control a piece of Singapore which is very wrong.Singapore is an indepdence and sovereign nation and we must be proud of our achievement and what our forefathers have built Singapore what it is today and further add value and continue making progress for Singapore and all Singaporeans.

I am just an Ordinary Singaporean who owns a HDB 5room apt with my wife and I am also a just a simple man. Let us put Singapore and her national interests above all things as Singapore is our only home-where can we run.I am all for a constructive, credible and world class Opposition in Parliament and let us pray that we have our own Singapore Anwar Ibrahim who is for all Singaporeans regardless of race, and able to provide value added in our Singaore Parliament and help fine tune current policies flaws.

Regards
Andrew Chuah

Why bother to think of alternatives why you have the best that is available?

There are many smart people out there but how many willing to sacrifice their time and career for Singapore – only PAP. There are just no capable people in other political parties, other than from PAP. PAP has all the succession and leadership planning done, what have the other parties done? Nothing but in-fighting and leaving to join or form another party. Many people oppose just for the sake of opposing.

Look, Mr. Chiam probably won’t run for the next election – there is nobody to succeed him that can do a better job than the PAP imcubent. Nobody will vote for Chee and for Mr. Low – well it may be a far fetch notion, but I think 2011, PAP will sweep all seats.

For those who has differing views from PAP – like Mr Leong and Mr Tan, why not join the PAP and work from within from a position of strength? Who knows, you guys might be the next PM or Finance Minister. Don’t bother to be independents or join sinking ships – these are lost causes.

Why bother to think of alternatives why you have the best that is available? – PAP Anonymous

If PAP remove the chief whip and allow the fundamental unit of the parliament to be the MP and not the party, perhaps there is some ground to talk about. The Chief Whip System monopolises opinion even among PAP members and encourage a yes-man system.

Does PAP have a vision for Singapore? Is there an emerging strongman within PAP ranks to take over LKY? The answer is obviously NO, so Singaporeans are no better under the PAP or the current league of Loyal Opposition.

Look, Mr. Chiam probably won’t run for the next election – there is nobody to succeed him that can do a better job than the PAP imcubent. Nobody will vote for Chee and for Mr. Low – well it may be a far fetch notion, but I think 2011, PAP will sweep all seats. – PAP Anonymous

Actually Sylvia Lim from WP is a capable replacement for Chiam, and she may finally get more voting and procedural rights in parliament. A NMP or NCMP has far less voting and procedural rights than a MP. Mr Low TK will stay as the Hougang MP.

What PAP has demonstrated is that despite claiming they are pro-Singapore, they still discriminate Singaporeans living in Opposition Ward via the HDB Upgrading Program. I don’t see any PAP MPs coming forward to explain why this is right thing to do.

Don’t bother to be independents or join sinking ships – these are lost causes. – PAP Anonymous

PAP is a lost cause too. PAP is no longer sympathetic to Singaporeans.

All you PAP supporters still don’t get it.

The day LKY dies, the factions within the Whites will start to surface and show themselves. LKY is the PAP’s only glue the keeps the members glued together all this time.

Remember, just not too long ago, there were news that there were ywo major camps within PAP. GCT’s and LHL’s camps. They were able to co-exist becasue of you know who.

The day will come, and it will be very soon, when these factions will figh each other for power to rule, just like in the old days when Barisan Socialis sprouted from within the party.

When that day comes, can you, all the PAP supporters, face us, look into our eyes and tell us that you have been doing us the favour of keeping to a one-party system of governance?

I would appreciate that you do not pass immediate judgement on what I have just written, but go take some time and seriously think about it.

I prophecy that this will happen in the very near future, within 10 years or less, following the demise of LKY.

135) PAP Anonymous on November 14th, 2008 6.05 pm
“Why bother to think of alternatives why you have the best that is available?”

You have to ask yourself, why do we need foreign talents. If this can apply to low-level, mid-level even high-level workers. Why can’t it be applied to your so-called best. What can’t the concept of alternatives be also applied to them.

“There are many smart people out there but how many willing to sacrifice their time and career for Singapore – only PAP.”

Sure or not ? You ought to have your brain examined. For that kind of benefits / compensation, a lot of talented people will rush to get into office in the style of robinson sales. If this is open to foreign talents, I guess you will be flooded with tonnes of resume from a lot of ex-govt talents from all over the world. What sacrifice are you talking about.

Like what a lot of bosses will always say, if you do not want to do it, others will.

“For those who has differing views from PAP – like Mr Leong and Mr Tan, why not join the PAP and work from within from a position of strength?”

Well, you are saying it yourself. This shows there are indeed talents like Mr. Leong and Mr. Tan outside the umbrella of your beloved choice.

127) lai CF

My dear lai CF,

I shall give you the benefit of a doubt that you are playing the devil’s advocate, so,

Let’s talk then,

Serangoon saga: How did you ever come to blame the WP is beyond my comprehension. I thought LBW said that the police officer was at fault for leaking the news to the residents.

Now, is it reasonable to blame the party who kept queit, or the party that went ahead to decide to build the dorm without consulting with the residents.

Tell me, are you honestly being reasonable or is it because you already have an agenda with the WP? Which iswhich?

You said:
How do you convince now, a dsigruntled PAP Supporter like me to vote for Opposition where really they are completely invisible when they needed to be high profiled.

Now, if you really know the politics of the WP, as you claimed to have been following them since the last GE, you would have realised that the WP’s style of politics does not include shouting from the mountain top. So, being high profile is your expectation, which is not in line withthe way the WP goes about its business.

You said:
SO, you claimed that Serangon Gardens residents in Aljunied GRC deserved
what they cut for votign PAP?

Kindly show me where did I make this claim? If there is any claim that I should make, it would be this. That the people who did not vote for the PAP got what they do not deserved to get, rubbish.

You said:
COnversely, then PAP is correct sin’t it when Hougang residents and Potong Pasir residents deserved what they get for voting in the ‘Forgettables”?

Are you tripping yourself here? I thought you said the Forgettables were the ones who hid behind LHL’s backside? How come suddenly it is not Hougang and Potong Pasir?

Take a deep breath and relax. You might think better. May I continue now?

You said:
I am compeltely disenchanted by WP and the disunity shown by politicla opposition when really, only two politicla parites can survived i Singapore:

Now, now, too much PAP propaganda can mix you up really good. Since when do the Alternative parties have a duty to be united? They each have their own philosophy for the kind of politics they embrace. WP for the workers, SDP for democracy etc etc.

You said:
For every Stalin, thee is always a Gorbachev.
For every Mao Tse Tung, there is always a Deng Xiao Ping.
Fore eveyr lee Kuan yew…there si always…

Patience, my friend, patience. History will reveal him in good time.

You said:
You lots of anti-PAP here, what can you offer Singpaoreans struggling to fnd a job to feed their fmailies?

You see, how come it is our job to find jobs for our fellow Singaporeans? Why are you asking us instead of the PAP govt? You see how irrational one can become when one drinks too much of the magic potion prepared by the Whities?

Careful you don’t get too drunk in it. Not so good for your health.

You said:
I will rather vote for Ah meng that any clowns that today styeld themselves as “Oppostion”.

I think what you meant is that you will spoil you vote since Ah Meng is already dead and you cannot vote for him.

Have a good sleep and a very good night.

Cheers ;)

I think its safe to have say 1 GRC under another party. But then that is just me.
Why i say this? ‘cos the country cannot collapse in such short time of 1 term which is 4 or 5 years. some more, its only 1 GRC. Of course, this will only happen if the people desires.

The people can also desire no change for another decade or 2.

I feel that whatever the party, the main thing is that they must serve us, the people.

I hope to see more independents run for Presidency. The people must elect their leaders. The people must have choices. The president should not have any party affilliations, ideally, in my personal opinion becase of his role in check and balance.

just my 1 cent.

I am looking forward to the day when all singaporeans can really stand up and happily shouting out to the world, YES, THIS IS INDEED OUR REAL TRUE PRESIDENT OF SINGAPORE!

My wish is that at least 20% of the ministers in Parliament are from the opposition party. Than we can really see how the PAP works.

“to Gilbert: what are the reasons to believe that the next election is so soon? personally, i think that the PAP would want to play safe and wait out the 5-year period:”

Many thought about many rational reasons to delay election till 2011 but none of them really emphasize whether LKY can tahan to live to see the next election. Do not discount LKY as the main reason for snap election. As all we all know, LKY is still the pillar of PAP for all elections. The PAP election cannot do without him. No one knows what happens to IR, Recession and all this stuff in 2011, but the gov does know the health and status of the grand daddy. Age is definitely catching up with LKY. I believe that LKY may be the reason behind early election. Other unpopular reaons to withhold a snap election are secondary. Question is whether PAP will disintegrate when LKY no longer around which affect one’s confidence on the ruling party.

Hi Daniel

I doubt LKY still wages that much power nowadays as rumoured. There are competent people like Khaw, Tharma, Vivian, George and Ng Eng Hen. The rest I think can be ignored. LSH has started strongly as PM but has since faded away recently and I dont know why. Let’s hope that it is not the cancer sickness that he had before. That can only be bad for Singapore.

I realy doubt LKY is Singaporea and Singapore is LKY. There is life after him. He has given up the throne for well over 10 years now though he jabbered about here and there these days. How much power he waged behind closed door is anyone’s guess. I heard of this Team A and B thing right after the IR debate but I guess the saga has since quietened down. Many I know preferred Tony Tan to be PM then but GCT came into the picture. He didn’t did that bad a job that woody Goh.

Who do you think can take over if something happens to him now? Surely not Deputy PM Wong Kan Seng? There could even be an internal revolution going on if something to that effect happen. God knows what will happen to SIngapore if PM Lee has to step down prematuredly.

Of course when LKY is gone, there may be a slight tremer but life goes on. I remembered how many felt nervous when Suharto was gone, Indonesia will go too – many said. However, Indonesia survived that crisis and moved on to be much more vibrant and independent.

When Deng Siao Peng was gone, people predicted a mass revolt but there wasn’t one and China became a better nation after him.

So let us not be too fearful when LKY is gone, it may even be for the better though I am not cursing him to his grave. The shadow of LKY may have in fact hinder LSL to do a better job for Singapore. I have always say LSL’s biggest barrier is not dissidents per se but himself as he is LKY’s son. I foresee that he will come out of his shadown if LKY is gone and maybe outshine his dad in running the nation.

Hi Daniel & Gilbert,

Daniel’s question on LKY goes beyond whether it is a valid question or not. There is a foregone conclusion that LKY’s death will surely have an impact on the PAP.

According to Gilbert, the beilef is that there are enough strong acndidates in the PAP to balance this out but I would choose to disagree to a certain extent.

PAP has worked all along because of one very fundamental component in LKY. He is the bolt that holds the party together. The fact that he is still in the cabinet when one should have retired gracefully tells beyond any word can tell that his influence is so very much needed.

How often have we seen the govt of GCT & LHL trying hard to ocnvice the populace on serious an important issues but fail to do so convincingly? How often have we seen LKY come out to do just that on their behalf? He is still needed by the PAP givt to put the gloss over hard to accept type of decisions and policies.

Who can do this job when he is gone? No one.

This is the PAP’s fault for making him so indespensible to the party, and it is this failure to look the problem directly in the eye that will be the cause of heartaches to come.

Now, this is no laughing matter and I am not trying to put the PAP down. Far from it. This has to do with us, our families, friends and children. Because when trouble begins to show from within the PAP, it will translate to trouble in the streets where you and I will be very close to. Too close for comfort, in fact.

Singaporeans need to seriously think about this than to assume that PAP/LKY will always be there for you. LKY is but only a mortal soul and Singapore will outlive the PAP.

Ten reasons why I bet Election will be very soon:

1. The financial crisis will be prolonged and ugly. Some predicted that it may even go beyond 2010 – that is one year before the present govt needs to call for an election. Imagine calling for an election in 2011/2012 when things are still high and dry? Best to do it now when things are still manageable.

2. PM has already identified his team of MPs to take over the dead wood. Everyone can see that the old guard is tired and lost their edge. PM wants to rejuvenate his team as he knows things are not going well lately. DPM Wong may have to go for early retirement together with Mah Bow Tan. It is clear that the team needs a younger crop to tackle today’s issues. The old guard needs to go for the country and party’s sake.

3. Disunity of Opposition party is well known by now. CST and LKT though veterans have hardly inspire as opposition figures especially during this crisis. What better time to slay them before they could gather a potent force to be reckoned with?

4. LKY is also getting older – he may not even live to the next election though I am not cursing him to the grave. WHy not use his prestige and reputation to bring in another PAP victory?

5. One could see that civil discontentment is rising by the day. Minibond investors and Poly students have all rise up in unity to protest against institutional fault and inaction by the authorities. PM will not want to risk having more civil protests in future to swing the votes. WHy not call a snap election and gain another 5-year term?

6. Overseas voters have receive notice of voting – since a month ago I have received notice from the govt stating that I am eligible for voting while living abroad. Is this not a clear cut sign?

7. Seeking a new mandate – PM will use the budget in Feb 09 to seek for a fresh mandate from the voters to cayy out his proposals. He wouldn’t want to risk till 2011/2012 when things may get too ugly by then. The risk of doing it later is just too much to bear.

8. Why the need to train people now for an election when election is at least three years away. PM is not known to do things without a reason. There is no smoke without fire.

9. Preparation for incoming of next PM – LSL has all along spoken on the difficulty of getting new talent for the next PM. It could be 7-10 years’ time. PM is already in his mid to late 50s and he may relinguish his position to the new PM in year 2017 – i.e 8 years’ time. The new DPM may even be announced during this 2009 GE if it is called. People like Thamar, Teo and Khaw stand a good to be DPM.

10. His health factor – his health still remains strong for the time being but you never know. He may be trying to prepare for the eventuality that it may turn bad. It is also good timing to prepare a new team to tackle this financial crisis with a new stock of capable people. The old guard does seem to have some problem here.

Hope this help. Anyone want to lay a bet with me? A beer maybe?

give 10 reasons and bet only for 1 beer? so cheapo one! I give you 1 carton and you write me a bible ok?

Tiredsingaporean:

Haha sure bet one carton then but the Bible is already written liao…

146) Gilbert Goh Keow Wah

Whether it’s one can of beer or one carton, you did not say how soon is soon.
Any predictions first?

Gemami:

My gut feeling it will be as soon as January or February 09 right before the expansionary budget of juicy goodies to trick the population again.

He may really use the goodies to entice us yet again.

150) Gilbert Goh Keow Wah

You know what? you have 10 very good points that suggest that you might be right.

Considering that the PAP usually picks the worst weather forecast to call for an election, I feel it would be in January, at the soonest.

However, my gut feeling is that this time around, the PAP although might call one in January, it will still have to wait and consider how some of the current economic issues pan out.

And I think this will delay the election call. I suspect it is more likely to be called in the second half of 2009.

The bet is on!

Remember, just not too long ago, there were news that there were ywo major camps within PAP. GCT’s and LHL’s camps. They were able to co-exist becasue of you know who. – gemami (#137)

Don’t forget the older chinese-educated camp in PAP too. Looking at parliament membership, you can tell that this camp has been increasingly marginalised over the years. PAP disunity is definitely in the pipeline.

The rest I think can be ignored. LSH has started strongly as PM but has since faded away recently and I dont know why. Let’s hope that it is not the cancer sickness that he had before. That can only be bad for Singapore. – Gilbert Goh (#144)

Why bad? We don’t need a sick man to rule Singapore.

I realy doubt LKY is Singaporea and Singapore is LKY. There is life after him. – Gilbert Goh (#144)

There is life after LHL too. Singaporeans are among the most resourceful people and we will always work things out somehow somewhat. The Lees are a barrier to a better Singapore.

My gut feeling it will be as soon as January or February 09 right before the expansionary budget of juicy goodies to trick the population again. – Gilbert Goh (#150)

To provide for financial assistance to tide over the Global Financial Crisis is the government’s job. Credit is only due when the PAP government exceeds expectation and not when it is merely doing its job. Welfare has always the most neglected aspect of its job. If Singaporeans can’t see through this, they really deserve the s-h-i-t they are in.

Gemami/Gilbert

My bet is April 09 right after the budget debates.

1. They need some time for the minibond saga to fade into the background.

2. They want to throw some “ang pow” money to Singaporeans as part of the budget.

3. They need some time for all the ministers to seem to be working very hard for Singaporeans to justify their million dollars salary. Don’t be surprised all the ministers will be featured prominently in the MSMs in positive light for ordinary Singaporeans. In fact, this has already started with Lim Swee Say and Gan Kim Yong speaking out against DBS’s retrenchment.

4. The Elections Department need time to redraw the electoral boundaries. Don’t be surprised that Aljunied GRC will be dismantled. They also need some time to reorganise the grassroot machineries and get their candidates to do some ground work within the new boundaries first. Of course, the new boundaries info are for them only and will not be announced until much later. Something like “insider trading”.

5. Allow some time for the “fear” of a deep recession to stew a little longer. The fear now is not entirely widespread or deep enough. The more fear there is in Singaporeans, the better it is for them. Expect more retrenchment from big companies to come in the next 3 months just to fan the fire a little more.

Yamasan (#153),

Reading this Today article, I think that GE will be held in the second half of 2009. Judging from the concentration of propaganda in the article itself, which already hails a future PAP victory, I am sad to arrive at the same conclusions as you.

No matter how they dismantle or shift the GRC, I believe they will not be able to sustain their 66.6% anymore, if lucky with their inside adjustment they may still get slightly above 50%, if not then bye bye to them, too bad the citizens just want you out for good.

No matter how they dismantle or shift the GRC, I believe they will not be able to sustain their 66.6% anymore – tiredsingaporean (#155)

Actually, I think the PAP will set aside the goodies only for constituencies that had voted for them. In this way, it is most probably a sure-win and probably the most unethical means to win. It will be more pork barrel politics disguised in the name of national interest, although there might really be no competition against PAP. So pork barrel for what?

153) Yamasam

You could be right. GE very often coincided with the school holidays. Probably June.

I think Lai CF provides a valuable insight into the psyche of many Singaporeans, especially how he talks about democratic ideals and such being intangible and therefore, seemingly irrelevant. This is also why I feel our society is not ready for a liberal democracy…the basic attitude of the society is not there..yet.

Hi Smallvice585, Yamasan, Gemami, Tiredsingaporean, Chorus

I don’t think the ruling party will lose that many seats in Parliament yet. Maybe they may lose their winning margin compared to the GE 06. There are still many PAP supporters out there. People like you and me frankly are in the minority group that is we are those that would prefer some seats lost and even a change in govt.

However, due to the recent government’s mis givings, I foresee at least a GRC falling to the opposition together with the two long-held opposition wards. Singapore wants to send a strong signal to the govt that all is not well, they are unhappy. As in 1997, people want to let the govt knows that they will use the vote to twist the arm of the strong man. They will do it yet again as this time round things do look bad for the country.

I do hope that the opposition will seize this golden opportunity to look out for good and capable people to head their GRC as if they are selected all eyes will be on them again. They can’t just get elected and do nothing in Parliament as with the previous lot in 1997.

A better solution will be for a group of intellectuals with like-minded ideas to set up a new political party. Besides WP, the rest of the opposition parties could hardly be said to have create any impact in Singapore. Capable people like Alex Au, TKL, Philip Jeyeretnam, Mr Brown and others should stand up and be counted for Singapore. People know them and will vote for them by virtual of what they have done so far for Singapore. WHat have our MPs do for us even if they are elected by the people?

They will stand a better chance of beating the odds than any other candidates send by any other opposition. We tend to vote along party lines and this only favour the ruling party as who don’t know the PAP? However, if we have people whom the population knows and respects, the ball game is different. We have seen what TKL has done in HLP for the investors. My bet is that he has already won half of Singapore’s votes already. Most bloggers know Alex Au and he is quite a prominent figure. A new party of well known die-hard figures will only serve the country’s interest well.

Stand up for Singapore!

Hi Chorus,

I am a little surprise with your comment in #158, maybe a tinge disappointed as well. I have always regarded your views to be more pro-Singapore as opposed to pro-PAP. I see you as one of those who, in a way, tries to bring anti-PAP comments into a pro-Singapore perspective.

If one can re-visit CF Lai’s comments, you will see clearly that there is a hidden agenda that is not pro-Singapore, very anti-WP with a sublimal message to vote PAP and thus pro-PAP.

Not that this is bad in the narrow context of party affiliation or inclination. We respect an individual’s choice.

Also, with his take on the opposition, particularly WP, and why it was so quiet while claiming to supprt them, then it is also clear that he does not understand the workings of WP. Since when has WP played to the MSM’s gallery?

Party ot anti-party comments and sentiments aside, is there any ’solution’ he has offered to his grieve? Yes, vote PAP. Now, this is also not wrong but he has to be clear that opposing views will be counter-offered.

Finally, when these counter-views are offered, he labels them anti-PAP. Don’t you think this is wrong? Many of us are pro-Singapore as opposed to anti-PAP. Believe me, if you were to put the WP in the govt’s position and should they behave the same way the PAP is doing, ignoring the voice of the people, the same level of disguntled accusations will also be directed at them, anti-WP.

So you see, it is not anti or pro parties sentiments. They must be seen as pro-Singapore. Even the ones who directly pour scorn on the PAP. These are the same people like CF Lai who does not know how to draw the line between PAP and Singapore, between LKY and Singapore and thinks that Singapore is either one or both of them.

This is totally wrong and any opinions thereafter must be judged based on this line of thinking. Therefore wrong.

I sincerely hope you return to your original position of being pro-Singapore.

Thanks

Party ot anti-party comments and sentiments aside, is there any ’solution’ he has offered to his grieve? Yes, vote PAP. Now, this is also not wrong but he has to be clear that opposing views will be counter-offered. – gemami (#160)

Lai CF failed to make constructive proposals on how to improve WP.

#159, Gilbert,

You asked capable people to stand up for SIngapore.
We had capable people like Francis Seow and Tang Liang Hong, they stood up, but where are they now?
It is better to wish for the old fart to go down than asking people to stand up.

Hi we are all armchair critics so it is all talk and no action also.

Unless we can truly rise up and do something concrete for our country, it is best not to criticise those in WP or any other parties who stand up and dare to go to the polls as candidates. These people are one in half a million among us and deserve our support and respect.

Some among us may want to do something during the next GE for our country – not neccesarily just as candidates. Some may just want to go and vote only. We all have a choice here.

We can argue till the cows come home and the ruling party will form the next govt for sure and even the next next. Our country is sheltered too long from indulging in party politics. We may have being guilty of leaving everything in the hands of the ruling party and now we have a foretaste of it all. Unless Singapore wakes up we are forever in this state of monopolistic control.

This is not only bad for the progress of our country in the long run but we may also suffer a slow death democratically. Our children and our children children will continue to be suffering in this state of inept governance whereby choices are taken from you. Whereby the govt says they know all and continue to dish out policies after polices at the detriment of our country. State institutions will continue to be privatised and cost of services will rise as new bosses look at boosting corporate profits more than providing reasonable services to the public. FTs will continue to come in droves as they are indispensable to our businesses for they are cheap and willing to work very hard. Employers will not want to employ our locals who need a certain minimal income to survive on.

Many Singaporeans I know have left the country in disgust. As many as 250,000 loyal citizens are abroad now both for work and study. Every year, as many as ten thousands more Singaporeans chose to stay abroad for reasons best known to themselves.

Let us rise up to do something for our country before it slides to nothingness.

16/11/08

Hi Gilbert Goh (164)-You have written many good positings and (165) the figure you quoted “as many as 250,000 loyal citizen are abroad……” maximum only 10% can just pack and leave and they are being replaced with the Foreign Talents (FT) who are now the “new Singaporeans or so called naturalised Singaproeans and bulk are from China and good example is like Gong Li (one can argue her husband is a Singapore born Singaporean).Next is how about the rest ie 90% who have to remain behind and their pockets are now hurt and burnt cos of high costs of living. Singapore is our only place we call Home and where can we all run to another Third Country, not so easy.

Regards
Andrew Chuah

Hi Gilbert,

I agree with Andrew Chuah that you have written some very good comments not only in this thread but in all the other threads of TOC as well. And I have also abserved that many of your posts do contribute in the way that it provokes one’s thinking in an angle the many might not even have thought of.

Your latest comment above serves to illustrate what I mean and the contents you have excellently included tells the whole picture doesn’t it?

For some, it might just be another comment by a poster too smart by half, but in reality, if one is to reflect deeper into what you have written, and look closer at what it might do for the future of Singapore, and to even think further than that, and give some thoughts to what it might do to our children, and our children’s children, then it becomes serious food for thought that should encourage us to do something about it right here, right now.

For others, all these talks might seemingly be, just talks. But yet, for some like you and I, this IS serious business. Seriouos enough to talk about it and do something about it. If not in big ways like joining a political party, then in small ways, like explaining the way I have been trying to do so, or to go help out with the political party of your choice, etc etc.

For these reasons, I particularly would like to highlight the paragraph you have written that supports what I have just narrated. It is all there is to it, isn’t it?

Unless we can truly rise up and do something concrete for our country, it is best not to criticise those in WP or any other parties who stand up and dare to go to the polls as candidates. These people are one in half a million among us and deserve our support and respect.

And we do this by respecting each other in the manner each would present his opinions, comments and rebuttals, and, as in the manner each has risen up to support the party of his or her choice.

There is no need for childlish banters without any offer of solutions at the end of it (see #161) smallvice585 ’s comment), does it not?

Many Singaporeans I know have left the country in disgust. As many as 250,000 loyal citizens are abroad now both for work and study. Every year, as many as ten thousands more Singaporeans chose to stay abroad for reasons best known to themselves. – Gilbert Goh

Another sign of PAP failure to retain Singaporeans for Singapore.

16/11/08

Hi Gemami *166-Thanks for your posting. Perhaps, 90% of us who are Singapore born, who still stays in Singapore, continue to pray to God to deliver us a Singapore “Anwar Ibrahim” or “Obama” but he must not try to dismantle everything Singapore is since her independence and must always put Singapore and her national interests above everything else and continue Singapore as a Free Economy and not making Singapore a welfare state (this is what we are seeing in neighbouring Malaysia where the Opposition held 5state governments are working towards a welfare state.Singapore must always remain a Free Economy and also have the very best brains for our Civil Service and our civil servants are the real ones who keep our nation going and making what Singapore is today and I salute these civil servants as we have the very best like Hongkong, Australia, New Zealand, Europe and USA.To me,Ministers are merely for PRs (yes, it is a must they have a certain academic qualifications also but not the very best unlike the old guards many did not have qualifications but the best of our civil service and its civil servants were there and are still here today.

I always believe that Singapore born Singaporeans who are qualified should be given automatically free education up to University even PHD and this is a very minute percentage of our GDP. And, the real poor Singaporeans, must be given all the help but not be given a blanket cheque like what USA President Elect Obama who won on the promise that those Americans who earn US$250k below would get a cheque from the Government or like our neighbouring Malaysia where the Opposition controlled 5 state governments are working towards a Welfare State this will drain our financial resources.

166) smallvice585

Exactly, and this failure in played out in other areas of managing Singapore as well.

The reason behind such a failure is the PAP govt’s approach to doing things thinking they have the mandate (blank cheque) to do so from the whole populace. It becomes a supreme and sovereign right, empowered by the people to do so without the need to even consult with us in regards to policies that affects us.

And this flawed perception is the result of 66.6% of the voting electorate who voted for them. Population-wise, it might be lesser than 66.6%. This is made worse when it continues to downplay dissenting voices as irrational and just plain ‘pain in the neck’ that can be cast aside.

“No worries, we have enough support to continue to saty in power”, they assume to the point of arrogance. This is where the danger lies.

Now, being a govt, it has to exercise its moral integrity to care for each and every Singaporean regardless of their party affiliations, but it has never ever exercise this level of integrity, sad to say.

Whichever party that becomes the govt is duty-bound to look after every Singaporean regardless who he or she has voted for.

16/11/08
Hi Gemami-Our Singapore Civil Service and its civil servants have been duly acknowledged by Malaysia’s Opposition Leader Anwar Ibrahim during the Malaysia’s General Election on 8/3/08 and his By Election and he was disgusted with the Malaysia Civil Service and its civil servants bulk are not qualified to be there, unable to do their jobs and no brains and are there because they are Malays and Bumis (90% of the Civil Service are Malays and Bumis since the introduction of the New Economic Poilicy-NEP).

16/11/08

Hi Gemami *169-Many good points but let us not Blame the PAP, let us blame also our Singapore Oppostion Parties and their leaders who are Quarter Baked. We now see a reformed Worker’s Party under Ms Sylvia Lim and she has alot of work to do inorder to win more than 1 seat currently held by the Secretary General Low Thia Kiang but is not easy as the latter will not give her a free hand and she is a lady and being a lady she has her limitations also unlike the defeated New Zealand PM Helen Clarke or the late Prime Minister of India Indra Gandhi. We saw one particular party and its leaders who are Running Dogs of those Foreign NGOs and fighting causes as instructed by these Foreign NGOs and one of its members replied to me ie “We need Foreigners to fight the PAP”and I replied back, We are Singaporeans and we fight our own battles and I doubt the Singaporeans will come and fight and die for us” The foreigners turned out to be former Singaporeans who stood in the previous General Elections and fled the country and we just saw one being convicted in court recently and he also pleaded guilty for being disrepectful to our Judiciary. He thought being a US citizen, the US government would send their marines to rescue him like the movie Black Haw Down”….sad they did not and prior to his conviction, he wrote the US State Department and State Secretary are watching my case and very concerned.

In the coming General Election, Chiam most likely will not be standing as I understand his health is not good.

16/11/08

Hi Gemami-Those Foreign Talents (FT) who replaced those Singapore born Singaporeans who have left the country are second and third clases and many created Social Problems and a good example is China Mamas who brought their kids to Singapore so called stuy (many don’t have monies to sustain themselves and their kids and resorted to prostitutions or as mistresses and breaking up our Singapore familes).

Perhaps, time for the Government to take a more bolder steps to make Singapore born Singaporeans feel more at home and hence they don’t think of migrating to Third countries and don’t come back and taking out their CPF after becoming citizens of these Third Countries. These new naturalised Singaporeans are not equal or better than we Singapore born and many also left for UK USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand as Singapore Passport are very honoured and respected by governments of these nations. Time has come for the Government to make Singapore Citizenship hard to get for these Foreign Talents especaily those from China, and make Singapore born Singaporeans feel more at home.

16/11/08

*Correction-should read as I doubt those Foreigners will come and fight, and die for us

170) andrew chuah

let us blame also our Singapore Oppostion Parties and their leaders

I think we have to be a little more forgiving when we blame the opposition for whatever they may be found wanting.

There is a huge difference how people view the PAP as opposed to how they view the opposition. When one talks about PAP,one would most likely talk about PAP, the brand. Never mind if the faces change but it is the brand that people are looking at. And this brand has been so well advertised that people would even buy into it blindly. And the best part of it all is these people will never admit that they are buying into the brand blindly.

On the other hand, the oppositions do not have a brand name to crow about. Look at JBJ, his brand dies with him the day he died. Look at SDP, the brand died with CST they day he was booted out by SCJ. Look at SDP now, the brand name is so tarnished by the PAP’s relentless pursuit to destroy it. Look at WP. The brand name will cease to garner the respect it is garnering now should LTK cease to exist.

So you see, we have a huge problem. how can the opposition build up their brand names if the people do not even dare to try their products.

Honestly, at this point in time, I do not blame the people for not daring to try the Opposition’s brand because the PAP has been able to do enough for the people to mis-trust these brands.

So, in order to stand shoulder to shoulder, the opposition and their customers must go out and tell non-believers that their products are good enough for them to give a try.

But before the people can do this, the opposition must do whatever is necessary to gain their trust too.

16/11/08

Hi Gemami-Good reply. The late JBJ was kicked out of Worker’s Party and WP has successfully reformed itself under both Low Thia Kian and Ms Sylvia Lim.The latter has done alot good work especially in Parliament but all the power still under Low who is the Secretary General a very powerful position.She has her constraints besides being a lady and a law lecturer. Low only caters for a small segment of Chinese Singaporeans ie the Teochews and is Chinese educated (from Nanyang University) He is not charismatic enough and able to reach out across whole of Singapore and all SIngaporeans.

The late JBJ went very personal ie only after Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew and also refused go with time, and all out to dismantle what Singapore is today since her independce under Lee Kuan Yew, which is not acceptable by the majority educated Singaporean who knows this and spells rouble for all Singaporeans .Further, his ideas are outdated and obsolete, and he refused to adjust and fit himself into the success of Modern Singapore.

For Chiam See Tong, he is too old and has health problem and I doubt he will stand in the next General Election. As for Dr Chee after taking over SDP, he thought with his Phd, he was able to reach out to every Singaporeans which he failed and he is not fighting for Singaporeans genuinely and I have asked myself this many times and just a mouth piece for foreign NGOs-very wrong of him to bring foreigners to Singapore for this and that conferences.A member of his party replied to one of my posting in another webside “We need foreigners to fight the PAP” and to me this is tatamounting to treason. Worse, his recent “Civil Disobedience” call and his latest book launched showed that he is only a Good Actor” and his court papers admitted taking monies from these foreign NGOs which led me to call him and his party Running Dogs of those foreign NGOs. He has yet to opening come clean why he back stabbed his former boss Chiam and kicked him out of SDP. I wonder why he did this-Chiam was sincere and gave him good publicity. Inshort, I don’t blame the PAP for tarnishing Dr Chee and SDP, they blame themselves, brought all these themselves (including PAP never ending legal suits against him and his gang, one after another).

I think Singapore needs a radical shift on how we operate politically. We cant operate the way we are peviously i.e. let the govt gets away with things that we feel are against the country’s benefit – casino, FTs, rising cost, F1, etc.

When we just keep mum whenever we are poked, the poke will get harder until there is a huge hole in us. The one who pokes will also know that we will not get angry nor can we do anything about it. In psychological terms, it is called conditioning. During Hitler time, he introduced alot of silly policies and at first it was subtle but slowly he called for the persecution of all Jews as they were accused of taking away the jobs of the local Germans. Soon, the Holocaust came and all Germans became immune to it as the persecution just got more violent. But the German people were very immune to such awful systematic prosecution to even say anything about it. I think our population and country suffer from this form of conditioning.

Firstly, we need a large group of vocal social/civil activists who will stamp their ground unrelentingly on issues that affect the common people. What TKL did is very good as it has many merits:

1. Protesting as a large group regularly on issues that affect the common people (investors).

2. Protesting within the law and above board.

3. Protesting without any ulterior motive on the part of the organiser.

4. Protesting systematically and without any violence.

5. Protesting against an issue that was dealth with unfairly

What that works for Singapore many years ago does not work now. Singaporeans should rise up and take action as we love our country too much.

To Gemami and Andrew:

Hi your comments put me to tears. I am merely a Singaporean who loves his country too much to see it go down the drain even though I am abroad.

Let us do what we can however small it is as when we consolidate what all the small people have say we will then have a larger voice.

Keep it up guys!

Hi Andrew,

Very detailed assessment.

However, I think it is time for everyone to re-focus, look into our mirrors and ask ourselves what is it that we want. Do we want to continue assessing the opposition according to the personalities in the oppostion camps or do we want to look beyond the personalities and see the cause they are fighting for and why they continue to represent the people the way they do.

Apart from CSJ and the late JBJ, no offence to them, and staying neutral to any judgement, I think parties like WP and SDA do have relevant causes to fight for and this is why they have been endearing themselves to the people.

What I am suggesting in my earlier post was that these parties make some effort to publicise their brand names. The individuals in these parties are far to big for the names of their parties at the moment. They need to make the party name bigger than they are.

Take PAP for example, apart for LKY, are the rest of his successors bigger than the party? The party has to be bigger than the names of any members.

Hi Gilbert,

I don’t think Singapore needs a radical shift. This will be too de-satbalising to the country. What it needs is radical minds to do things diffferently with one main focus in mind – the people and their well being. Not the way PAP has been doing which is to keep telling the people that that they have the best solutions for everything and therefore the people just have to support them and floow blindly.

Thanks

Face it. Singapore is small and we can only have one party system, not two.

LHL is right when he said, “But it is not our job to build up the opposition or split the party into two, because it is hard enough to find one team to look after the country. How can we find two?”

Those of you who truly wants the best for Singapore, instead of being armchair critics – join PAP and change from within.

Else, you can talk cock sing song here until the cow comes home and nothing will change.

178) PAP Anonymous

I almost agree with your argument and I am not being sarcastic, just in case you might think so.

Why do I say this?

If I were to consider your advise, I would first look at what I can bring to the table of discussion. Then I will see if there is any real chance of getting heard because 99.9% of those already in there will be the those who already subscribe to PAP’s ideology.

After considering this, I will think further; will the 99.9% give me a hearing or will they conveniently shut me up? I say this because PAP supporters have a habit of echoing their leaders without giving much thought to what they are saying and the implications of it.

So you see, it might not be such a good idea after all.

Finally, one of the most important ingredient is very much lacking in your suggestion. The people or the diversity of views from the people.

Your suggestion can only work if you presume Singaporeans (100%) believe in PAP’s ideology for Singapore.

It will not work because almost half of Singaporeans either do not trust the PAP enough or does not trust it al all.

So you see, it is not for anyone to say that this or that is the best option for Singapore. Singaporeans will decide for themselves.

No one should patronise us and we don’t need a nanny anymore. We have grown up.

17/11/08
Hi PAP Anonymus *178-I eead your posting and it is not so easy as there are others who are more senior than you in PAP and you look up and tell yourself-Woh long climb to the very top and even you get to see Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew, he has to hear out your arguments and many who got the chance to meet him, will just sing praises and not voice out (same in Malaysia when Dr Mahathir was the PM, those selected to stand as BN/UMNO MP would sing praises. I am an old man,age 48 and tasted life since 1997 Asia Financial Crisis and lost more than S$30million pledged to those banks in Singapore and fought those Senior Bankers who lied in their sworned affidavits, up to Singapore Supreme Court.

What Singapore needs a Singapore Anwar Ibrahim who is for all Singaporeans regardless of races and knows how to fine tune PAP policies not to dismantle what Singapore is under PAP since her independence, besides putting Singapore national interests above all things ie (a) Internal Security Act-ISA still very relevant but needs to be modified and not used on Singapore Opposition members unless they are caught helping those terrorists, (b) Death Penalty for Capital Punishment ie Drugs Trafficking and Murder and (c) Singapore remains a Free Economy and not a Welfare State which Singapore Opposition Parties want to make it a Welfare State-this is rubbish as it will drains our financial resources.

17/11/08

Hi Gilbert Goh *178-Good to hear from you. I also travel alot overseas and hardly have time in Singapore and to us, Singapore is always in our heart and the only place we called “Our Home”, will die and be cremeated in Singapore.

Let us always put Singapore above all things and pray that we have a Singapore Anwar Ibrahim who is equal or better than the PAP and first he has to win a few more seats and then work with the PAP in Parliament and not dismantle everything the PAP has established since Singapore independence like the late JBJ who was a very selfish man-all out to dismantle what Lee Kuan Yew has established in Singapore and unable to fit himself into Modern Singapore and he played into the hands of Malaysia government which is UMNO dominated when he was first voted into Parliament ie he questioned our huge Defence Budget and this was a very wrong thing (this was and is still what the Malaysia government wants a weak defence force in Singapore). I met the late JBJ during my Singapore banking days in his old office in Colombo Court and I also met his protege MP Low Thia Kiang many times but I did not join the Worker’s Party. He did not play smart and he paid a very high price and lost everything and died without anything nor achieving his dreams for a Welfare State in Singapore.

What Singapore needs a Singapore Anwar Ibrahim who is for all Singaporeans regardless of races and knows how to fine tune PAP policies not to dismantle what Singapore is under PAP since her independence, besides putting Singapore national interests above all things ie (a) Internal Security Act-ISA still very relevant but needs to be modified and not used on Singapore Opposition members unless they are caught helping those terrorists, (b) Death Penalty for Capital Punishment ie Drugs Trafficking and Murder and (c) Singapore remains a Free Economy and not a Welfare State which Singapore Opposition Parties want to make it a Welfare State-this is rubbish as it will drains our financial resources. – andrew chuah (#180)

I finally see that we have some common ground here. But I don’t share absolute agreement with that is said. ISA should not be used on the Loyal Opposition. I have my reservations on the death penalty and I feel that it should be repealed.

On the aspect of welfare, Singapore should embrace welfare, but welfare does not have to be provided entirely by the state. In fact, I support further political liberalisation to encourage civil society to flourish and take up this role. Give trade unions the means to negotiate for their own welfare. Empower trade unions to manage their own welfare scheme, retraining scheme, retrenchment scheme, etc.

17/11/08

Hi Gemami-I have replied to PAP Anonymus and Gilbert Goh. We must know what we are talking and responsible on what we talk and on what we write unlike Dr Chee and his gang who are Running Dogs of those foreign NGOs, I have been writing short postings on Discuss-Singapore since 2001 and still write without fear or favour and have challenged Dr Chee to come clean why he back stabbed his former boss Chiam and he has failed to reply.

Let us write what is good for Singapore our only Home which we have. I have gone through hell and still struggling and moving forward in life, not so easy. For PAP Anonymus, I think he is a PAP member and very young man and just joined the PAP and believing in changing from within the PAP and this is not easy and just a dream very hard to be realised as one you are inside the PAP, Worker’s Party or even SDP, you have to toe the line.

17/11/08

Hi Smallvice585 *182-Good to hear that we have a few things in common.

My stand on Death Penalty is very firm ie must not be abolished at all costs.Despite Death Penalty for Drugs Trafficking since the law was passed, we still see these Drugs Traffickers using their runners to smuggle drugs and last week we saw a Malaysian youth age 19 sentence to death, and the same for Murder, we still see murders in Singapore. I have written on Discuss-Singapore that Death Penalty be used on International Drugs Syndicate in Singapore at all costs.

Welfare State will drain all the Singapore financial resources.President Elect Obama will fail in his Welfar State policy ie giving Americans earning US$250k and below a cheque. He is not a top calibre and will be a very weak President like the former Democrat President Bill Clinton and USA will be very weak in all front. I have written on Discuss-Singapore that free education to be given to all Singapore Born children up to University level and on TOC up to PHD and this is only a minute percentage on our GDP and will encourage Singapore Born Singaporeans not to migrate (many migrated also because of costs of education for their children). For the poor, the very poor, help must be given but not a blanket cheque.

Hi Andrew,

We all know that Chee has foreign support to do the things he does and it is also clear he has a lot of issues to grind with the PAP govt. With the mixture of these two components it is not surprising that the PAP finds it absolutely necessary that he and his SDP supporters be completely crushed and demolished.

When I first saw him and heard him at his first rally in Potong Pasir, it reminded me so much of LKY in his younger days (from the footages we often see on tv). At that time, I was telling my friends that we have to remember this name because the way he talked and the way he showed his passion was exactly like the man himself. I believe LKY saw himself in CSJ and feared for the PAP from that day onward. That is why the relentless obsession to destroy him. Sadly, CSJ played into the hands of the PAP and he lost himself after that trying in vain to clear his name.

I partly attribute Chee’s action to one who has been pushed to the corner and the only way out is to bite back even when all his teeth are being plucked out one at a time. If he has to end up biting with his gums he will continue to bite just to survive in the hope that he will be free one day.

I must be clear that I do not accept the methods he has adopted and is continuing to use especially with the dictation of these foreign NGOs. However, I will still support him only because this PAP govt needs someone to irritate them if not for anything else.

As to why he sacked CST, I shall not want to dwell on this as I have met CST a number of times and he can be quite headstrong and very firm on certain issues himself.

For people like PAP Anonymous, I do not have any quarrel with them. In fact, I would welcome pro-PAP comments so that we can discuss and find out why people still continue to give support to the PAP after all the wrong-doings that are so plain for all to see. Surely, the PAP is not perfect and there must be something these pro-PAP people would agree with us on?

Having said that, I will not hesitate to dish out in equal measure any anti-opposition comments that hit below the belt, or any over-glorification of the PAP.

PAP is not infallable and needs to be checked by an alternative voice.

18/11/08
Hi Gemami-Many thanks for your very interesting posting. We must have what is good for Singapore and her national interests and like Dr Chee and his gang being used by those foreign NGOs and taking monies for them to survive, and must not talk or write “hollows and unsubstantiated facts and “kena sue”. Yes, Singapore is not perfect especially now and the PAP is now too strong and very arogrant. Many of the PAP policies are flaws and need to be fined tune and open confrontation is not the solution in Singapore like our neighbours like Malaysia and Thailand ie taking to the streets as Singapore is too small and very fragile. Dr Chee’s recent book and call for Civil Disobedience are madness and absurd.

Going out meet clients now, write some more later (busy day today)

Lee Kuan Yew is SIngapore, Singapore is Lee Kuan Yew.

Singapoe for Singaporeans.

Vote PAP in GE2011, and Opposition can start thinking on GE2016 if theya re prepared and have the resources to survive till 2016.

WHy GE2011 for PAP?

SImply that if present recession which is most likely to turn into a full blown GLobal Depression worse that 1973, worse than 1980s recession, worse than 1997 Asian FInancial Crisis, worse than 9/11, at this moment in time, and for the next 5 years, who is in better place to pull Singpaore out of the recession?

What can 20% of Opposiiton do in Parliament – like British parliament jsut veto PM Brown rescue Plan?

Can Singapore affords to take that kind of approach of letting Opposiiton to hinder Economic Rescue Plans?

SIngaporeans?
Do they care so much about political opposition as to their livelihoods come GE next year, 2010 or 2011?

Me?
I will vote PAP as it is a Hobson’s Chocie, whetehr it is a nag or a steed, at elast I got the “ride”.

Opposiiton?
They can’t even afford to paln for a stable, let alone afford to buy a wind-broken nag.

Civil Disobedience and street disorders after demise of Lee Kuan Yew?

You must be joking as we recently commissioned those Leopold Main Battle Tank (MBT).

MBT is most unsuitable for jungle warfare, crossing numerous streams, plus a sittign duck in urban warfare that even the isrealis encountered in Gaza Strip.

Draw yur own conclusion as why SIngapore needs MBT.
Technology transfer?

All of you ahve high ideal, kudos to you all.
But like Chee Soon Juan and his ideals, do they “sell” to that 90% SIngaporeans staying in HDB Heartlanders?

As Low TK ousted Jeyaretnam, simalrly, who si goign to oust Low TK to move it into a new direction as what Low TK did for post-Jeyaretnam WP?

if this si the style of Low TK, defendign Hougang, an donly Hougang is Sngpaore to him, a smallish localised unique poltiical party centralised at Hougang only, you called that Oppostion in Singapore?

Like Chaim See Tong in GE2006, only Potong Pasir liek hsi eprsonal fiefdom.

No, germani, you read me wrongly.

COme GE2011, if given the chance to vote, I will vote PAP.

Clowns beling to circus, certainly not in Parliament.

As early as last year, I said I will vote anyhting but PAP, including Ah Meng.

But basing on WP performance on the Serangoon Gardens Worker Dormitory Incident in Aljunied GRC when WP si all by invisible, offering to moral support to residents there.

And yet, 34% or more voted for WP in Aljunied GRC during GE2006.

You call that Oposition party, so fearful fo even its own shadow in deciding to be good little church mouse.

Voting for Opposiiton?
What choice are they offering to “voters?

“A Better Singapore” only for the Intelligentsia which “understands” all thsoe high-sounding “poitical theories”?
But how about sellign that “A Better Singpaore” to all those 905 HDB dwellers, the very source of politicla power to PAP, and even to any political party in Singapore?

Dear lai CF,

I am taking a long, deep breath while writing this reply.

Now let’s see.

1. Let’s put your first declaration to the test. Why don’t you write on a big cardboard these words, ‘Lee Kuan Yew is Singapore and Singapore is Lee Kuan Yew’, hang the cardboard over over neck and walk around in Singapore with it?

Whatever, it is, thanks for sharing, and, don’t forget to prove your declaration of what LKY is to Singapore.Good luck! You need it.

Gemami/Andrew/lai CF

I think we all should give due respect to divergent views here. There is no point trying to convert one another. In due time, we will judge for ourselves who is right or wrong. Even then, it is a personal decision to make whether one stands for the ruling party or otherwise.

I find what lai CF wrote has it’s merits. Compared to other countries, we are better off than many. Having take a look at opposition politics here, one will make up the mind to vote for the ruling party given it’s solid credentials all this while and most importantly the stability factor. It is not surprising that at least 65% of our people will vote for the ruling party for many years to come. They are simply that good. If they have screw up big time, do you think people will vote for them?

There is no perfect political party in the world. Even the US will attest to that. In fact, sometimes I felt that the US system is like a big show with two candidates campaigning for 20 months to be President.

What we are talking here probably is the impact of swing votes. Will those who are adversely affected by the economy still vote for the govt? People change their voting pattern over the years. I have being a PAP supporter for many years but only lately have decide to swing my vote. Some who vote for opposition politics may also now decide to vote for the ruling party.

How many people swing their votes will probably be decisive especially in closely fought wards like Aljunied GRC. The ruling party won not more than 4% in that ward. The margin could be less than 20,000 votes. George Yeo and team could have lost and faded out of politics. It is that serious.

19/11/08

Hi Gi,lbert/Gemami/Lai CF-As I see it, Singapore Opposition needs a through revamping and perhaps merging into a sole entity to take on the PAP in the coming General Election and now the only credible Oppostion Party is the Worker’s Party who has revamped itself successfully and more relevant than before and the rest must follow likewise.Perhaps the winding of SDP will be blessings for the Singapore Opposition and a windfall of votes for the Worker’s Party.The SDP is a nuisance and a Running Dog of those foreign NGOs under Dr Chee and his gang also like the PAP believing that Foreigners are better than we local born Singaporeans and this I refer to one of his members reply to my posting on Discuss-Singapore ie “we need foreigners to fight the PAP”.

A total revamp for Singapore Oppostion is a must and perhaps after revamping to be headed by our Singapore Anwar Ibrahim and only then there will be light at the end of the tunnel.

Hi Gilbert, Andrew & CF Lai,

There is no doubt that Singapore’s opposition must revamp (and this is the only point I have agreed with CF Lai). It must come together to be the next alternative.

I agree with Gilbert that, as hard as it may be to accept, CF Lai has his valid points and it is his right to snigger and laugh at us, for now.

It is most unfortunate that I failed to make him see further than what the eyes can see. We need to see with our minds as well and see what the future will be like, in all sorts of possible scenarios.

Singapore is the people and the people is Singapore.

———

PM has already said that there is no room for a two-party system. Whether we like it or not, it is going to have its impact. The effect would be that most would still believe him blindly. Even those who do not subscribe to his believe will find that there is no room for anything more than two.

So you see, it becomes a case of ‘three’s a crowd’. If two won’t work for Singapore, you can forget three. Most Singaporeans will buy into this for sure.

Let’s just say the opposition is able to get together some top quality candidates, what happens next? They are not going to be able to take over and take control overnight. This is the reason why I have always preached patience and endurance. The erection of an alternative is going to be a long-haul process.

Singapore’s Anwar Ibrahim? This will have to wait. I do not see him in this election but I am hopeful that he will show himself at this coming election. And, I hope he will not be underhandedly suppressed before he can be any effective.

Politicis in Singapore is a gamble. PAP owns the casino.

19/11/08

Hi Gemami *192-PM Lee said no room for two party system, what is he talking about (our neighbour Malaysia has two party system now ie Barisan Nasional (BN) vs Pakatan Rakyat (PR). We are no longer in the Dark Ages and we have a huge middle class with education minimum diploma and maximum Phd and they travel abroad frequently for holidays and businesses (I doubt they support his idea ie no room for two party system). We in Singapore cannot run away from Two Party System and is here to stay and the Singapore Opposition must help themselves and be relevant by revamping themselves very thoroughly.

I don’t expect Singapore Opposition to win significant seats perhaps two more Single seat and a GRC (so help them God). Perhaps I will not agree with you that PAP owns the “casino” even casions can go bankrupt look at USA Sand’s casino which is on the verge of Bankruptcy. I do agree that Politics in Singapore is a gamble but a gambler must be street smart and prepared to hear from our neighbours regional and not like the SDP and Dr Chee being Running Dogs for those foreign NGOs (I have nothing personal with Dr Chee and I feel that what he has been doing, are very wrong especially bringing foreigners to Singapore and fight the PAP.We Singaporeas must fight our own battle and not allow foreigners to fight for us and will these foreigners fight and die for us and my answer is a big No.Look at Gopalan Nair now a US citizen and he did not put up a good fight and just surrendered (earlier he thought being a US citizen, the US goverment would send their Marines to rescue him like the movie Blak Hawk Down)

Hi Andrew,

For the record, I too cannot accept a one-party system. The fact is that with the statement coming out from PM, he has already won in the subconcious department.

As for Chee and SDP, yes, I agree with you that Singapore’s affairs should best be decided by Singaporeans and supported by Singaporeans.

Having said that, and as I have explained post #186, I still feel that Chee was left with no choice. Most of us would see Chee, the politician, if we can call him one in the first place, who later became an activist, but we fail to see Chee, the family man. He has a family to feed. There is a need for him to play a dual role as head of his family and activist for political and social freedom. Both are equally important to him.

Being crushed to the bone and with no one else to turn to, any normal person would grab at straws, what more when someone stands by your side with hands stretched out to pick you up.

Don’t get me wrong, I do sincerely hope that Chee would stick to his activist role and stay away from politics. This way, he will not be dragging the opposition down collectively especially during election time. The opposition without him would stand a better chance of getting better polling results.

21/11/08

Hi Gemami *194-Good to hear from you. Yesterday, was very busy with my work-I am working for a small boutique investment advisory company. We all are family man and we have a family to feed and no matter how desperate we don’t sell our national Singapore to the foreigners and bring these foreigners to Singapore to so called fight for us and taking monies from these foreign NGOs and being their Running Dogs. I gone to hell and back and now still struggling after I lost all in 1997 Asian Financial Crisis (more than S$30million in deposits pledged to banks in Singapore). We are Singaporeans and we have our integrity, dignity and principle

194) gemami on November 19th, 2008 3.46 pm
For the record, I too cannot accept a one-party system. The fact is that with the statement coming out from PM, he has already won in the subconcious department.

hi Gem, I agree with you. This 1party system is definately a no-no go for singaporeans. If we allow this to kick in is just as good as signing them our blank cheques to help them to empty our entire cpf life savings. By now, they already know their party have started to loose ground in singapore, they know they have lost the complete trust and faith of the citizens, and there is nothing they can change the facts of those strings of screwed ups that they cannot hide from the people any longer, and they also know that as the digging continues, more and more dirts will surface. So, the only way out now is to use force or whatever underhand methods they can to protect themselves now and not the country.