I would like to reiterate that we must not shun away from such discussions if we expect to grow in maturity as a social, political and civil people .

Many have argued that because we are positioned amongst neighbours of various religious and ethnic compositions, we must stay away from touchy issues that might do harm to the harmony of co-existence. I beg to differ. I feel we must take the initiative to learn about each other and to know what are the reasons behind their beliefs, their culture and the taboos, their race, their history, their practices, everything that we are so ignorant about.

Can we claim to be living in harmony when we do not even know why the Muslims behave in ways very much dictated Islam & what actually is Islam, or, why the Chinese have their own perculiar practices, or, why the Indians do not seem to be a cohesive race; or; why the Eurasians do not feel they have a place in the country?

We have been co-existing without bothering to find the answers to these questions. It is time we take steps to, not only co-exist, but to really live in harmony, fully aware of each other’s race, religion and culture.

The problem is, who is dare enough to discuss such issues? I vouch, while speaking up for Dr Syed Alwi, that the Muslims are crying out to be understood. Many of us believe we understand where the Muslims are coming from but this is very far from the truth.

Let me relate a personal experience.

Last year, I wrote an article that I place in the department’s bulletin board. The article was about Ramadan and in it I detailed the observances and practices throughout the period of fasting leading to Hari Raya Puasa, the celebration.

The Chinese and Indians in the department were so taken in by the article that they begin to relate to the Muslims better because they now understood what the Muslims were doing and more importantly, why they were doing them.

Likewise, I did a write up for the same bulletin board, on the observances and practices of the Chinese in preparation for the Lunar New Year celebration. The same sentiments were expressed to me by the other ethnic groups and all were very appreciative of the effort to create harmony and understanding among the races.

Based on these experiences, I dare say, there is scope and space enough for such discussions. The trick is for contributers to be sensitive and to thread with care and caution.

No harm trying. Like I said before, close the thread down if it gets out of control. This is one good thing about blogs. The host can control what it wants to carry.

Intra-ethnic isses , and INTER-ethnic issues.

Intra-ethnic issues pertain to issues of religion for eg… syriah laws.. such things should be discussed within the ethnic community itself, and though i would be curious to sit in and watch, just for knowledge’s sake, i wouldn’t find it right to comment at all, and I would recommend that intra-ethnic issues be the strict dormain of the ethnicity involved.

Inter-ethnic issues are issues that concern society as a whole, for eg, if there is any ‘glass ceiling’ in certain sectors of the civil service, and reasonably if there are real concerns why such ceilings exist. Or something as mundane as, are there enough considerations for people of other faiths when designing towns and facilities? I find it strange for eg, why the issue of asking for Tamil signs in MRT and Bus stations was treated like a hot potato.

But yeah, of course there still need to be prudence when discussing such issues.

Tks for clarifying.

I look forward to your contributions [articles/comments] on ethnic and/or religious issues, on assumption, as gemami suggested, TOC would establish a separate corner for such issues.

My hope is that people who are interested in such issues are able to discuss them rationally/philosophically, or with an open mind.

Allow me to make it very simple. First of all, TOC holds the discretion whether to allow discussions of such topics or not. What I am suggesting is that we do not shun away from thorny issues just because we have been made to believe that tackling such issues will lead to racial and religious riots.

There are many ways to go about doing this in a civilised and ‘controlled’ manner. By ‘control’, I mean, for each individual to take accountability and responsibility for the comments he/she posts.

How do we do this? I offer two areas of control. More can be introduced as and when it is deemed necessary.
a. Have a separate corner for racial (ethnic) and religious discussions.
b. Contributors to provide personal particulars so as to prevent mischief by those who may drop in with callous remarks and hiding behind the wall of anonymity.

Should discussions get out of control; close it down. At least we know we have tried and it did not work. So there is nothing to lose, and there is nothing to worry over sabotage.

Daniel: ….. at least if thing run astray, can just shut down his blog and move on.

If the govt wants to find fault with you, there is no way and no where you can hide even if you have a nice little halo over your head with white fluttering wings on your back. Taking you to task over religious, racial or even plain char kuey teow issues does not matter as long as they make out a reason for coming after you.

It just take one clown with his harmful and sensitive remarks (possibly anonymous from the establishment) to deliberately close down the whole TOC site. Do you really want to see head chop like those in Iraq ?

Let me recount a incident I see while travelling to Arab country. I remember someone reporting a headless AngMoh along the riverside which I was told that he was murdered as the result of insulting and blaspheming the ISLAM religion even though he may be right ! So if someone who do not really understand the religion and just wanna talk some nonsense, please submit your name and IC as well along with your comment, I won’t be surprised you will be living in fear in Singapore.

Having a debate on racist and religion are no problem until most of the comments are just ignorant and disrespectful of religion. Prevention is better than cure.
If someone want to talk about religion, setup his own blog and let the debate start from there, at least if thing run astray, can just shut down his blog and move on.

Just a simple question: Are you saying that TOC should allow religious and ethnic issues to be discussed freely on this board?

I believe he is asking for the discussion of Muslim or Islamic issues so that the wider audience, that is Singapore of other races, come to understand why Muslims have to sometimes take a different stand to those subscribed by the mainstream. This is a good proposition insofar as it remains within the realm of civilised discussions without it degenerating into what the ob markers were placed there in the first place.

Looking at the comments posted here, the danger that such discussions might get out of control will most likely surface and is quite a forgone certainty. It is sad that such a good initiative can be misconstrued by our mischievous mindsets that tell us stories of doom once we open the legendary can of worms.

I think Singaporeans have to have the courage to take on issues that the govt has been telling us not to touch on. When can we grow to maturity if we are not brave enough to face these thorny issues head on? Here we have a Dr Alwi, a Muslim, and most likely, one who is well versed in the teachings of Islam, offering us his wealth of knowledge, to help us understand our Muslim brothers and fellow Singaporeans better; and what do we do? We run away as fast as we can, afraid that we are inviting trouble, afraid that TOC may be closed down and we will all be left high and dry after indulging ourselves in its sweetness.

We start making excuses that like why stop at Islamic issues? Why not gay issues? Why not women’s issues? Why not Chinese issues? Why not Indian issues? Why indeed? Why are we asking these questions in the first place?

Don’t you see how suppressed we have become when we ask these sort of questions? Do we need to take up arms and go to war by asking and discussing such issues? Because of one bad experience, we prevent, by all means, not to touch the same issue again? Is not history supposed to help us along for us to draw on its lesson so that we do not make the same mistakes that resulted in trouble? Or is history used to make us a repressive type of people who becomes cowardly and one with loads of excuses to run away from thorny issues?

I agree most with AhKao #7) that tacking such issues will be reason enough for the PAP govt to close down the blogsite but then again, how many blogsites does it need to close down before the people really get fed up with such bullying tactics? Do we sit by the side and wonder without ever knowing the answer?

My humble advise is for TOC to introduce ratings. Set up a corner for the discussion of such issues with a cautionary note to visitors, readers and comments to adhere to a code of conduct. Work on it. It can be done. And, don’t stop with Muslim issues.

Let us show the PAP govt that its hard work to create a more gracious and open society is bearing fruits. We can be the testament to such a success. There is no reason for the PAP govt to close anyone down.

Throw away your fears my friends.

I won’t be too happy if i were you though. If what Sumiko said was true, that all comments here are not intelligent, that sorta includes your entry too… :P

And next time, just say “the thing speaks for itself”. Not everyone understands Latin.

res ipsa loquitor.

I don’t understand your point. You do notice that I am among the stupid ones here which otterman have lamented about… since, according to him and you, the smart ones have really gone away. So I while I appreciate the compliment that you think I’m so smart whereas I truly believe I am of average to below average intelligence, I have to say I don’t deserve it.

You talk about respect being earned with blood and sweat, as if you and you alone hold the absolute knowledge in your hands. Well, maybe it’s just my average middle class upbringing, but I was raised to believe that everyone has a point, and if you don’t even respect his point, because he obviously must be convinced of the validity of it if not he won’t be saying it out in the first place, you can’t persuade him no matter how valid your argument. The whole episode between Dr Syed and the rest of the people here is enough proof of that. Everyone has a truly valid point that requires deeper thought, but it seems that we all prefer to preach than to learn. And yes, my own fingers are pointing back at me as well.

I always believe that one’s intelligence is a gift to be used in the service of others.If you can’t even give respect to those whose intellect are perceived to be lower than yours, and you smugly post a comment making sweeping remarks about the dirth of intelligence here, than what use is your intellect? But then again, there are people who give respect to all people first, and there are those who believe they shouldn’t respect people until the persons have proven to be deemed worthy of their respect.

You may be very smart, perhaps… but it seems not smart enough to put your points across in a cool rational way. You seek to win people and defeat arguments with your rapier-intelligence; I simply prefer to find a common ground between divergent views so we all can move ahead.

So I can’t answer your question why the smart people have all gone away. But maybe instead of going away to some online ivory tower, you guys should just stay back and help contribute to a livelier debate here, even if the stupid remarks here drive you nuts. Seriously folks. In times like these we need all the smart people we can find. But the smart people have to understand that in for anything to move forward they have to work with the stupid people, and not make the stupid people feel worse about themselves by calling them stupid, and staying away. Afterall, the world will always have more stupid people than smart people. So contribute to raise the standard of intelligence here if you feel it has gone down. We all look forward to it.

Ok? Deal? :)

Hugs.

You talk about respect as if its given, well I have news for you, its earned with blood and sweat. Win people over with persuasion of your argument even if you defeat them fair and square, they will still hate you but at least they respect you, but instead what happened here, they cut and cut and cut and at the end of the day you cap it off with some nonsense about respecting people etc etc etc you reap what you sow.

I flunked my Mensa test. You won’t believe how bad. Apparently I am slightly better than a dimwit.

But I was thinking… how intelligent is an intelligent person if he can’t explain a concept in such a way that even a five year old can understand? I think Einstein said something to that effect.

Also, the PAP is filled with intelligent people. No, seriously. But that didn’t stop them from screwing up in the eyes of many.

There is also a difference between intelligence and wisdom. The really wise one respects everybody if those who disagree with him, and will not imply everyone here is stupid simply because they can’t see his point. It doesn’t need to take a smart person to know that.

Oh, but what do I know? I flunked my Mensa.

They seemed to have just evaporated or moved on somewhere else. Has anything else been happening somewhere else in the net? I also think we cannot make much head way without the intelligent people, so what is the point of all this?

just my 2 cents, if anyone cares to know.

sounds interesting. I’ll pop by for a look. :)

Patriot,

I half-agree with you. But let me say the parts i disagree first. I disagree that race is a bigger determining factor in a community’s psyche than religion. You mentioned Malays. But did you know that the Fillipinos are also of Malay stock? But you would find they have less much less in common with Singapore Malays than with Indonesian or Malaysian Malays. The question I pose to you is – why? If ethnicity takes precedence over religion, then does the loyalties of JI lie with Islam, or with the Malays (from Indonesia, Malaysia etc) which make up a huge portion of it? Does a Christian Indian have more in common with a HIndu Indian than say, a Christian Eurasian?

But I would agree with you that perhaps not all are ready to deal with discussion of this sort in a open forum. I have explained, and reinterated – if religion is to be mentioned in any discussion, it should be used either as

a) a reference. Or as a quote to back up a point. Whether you believe in them or not, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, etc, always have something spot-on to say about human nature, and also about the potential of humans to do good. To steer clear of even any mention of them in the name of being religious-free is depriving ourselves from some of the most beautiful words ever uttered. Also, when you discuss policies pertaining to abortion, euthanasia, use of contraception etc… how do you hope to have a discussion even, when for some people it is predominantly a religious issue?

b) how it affects a community. How can you even hope to understand how another community thinks without delving into the thing that is closest to them? And maybe, maybe, it’s because of all these hush-hush that so much misconceptions of the religions of the others exist. How many of us know enough about the other religions to understand that what might be immoral and barbaric now made perfect sense in the community back in the days the religion was being established? How much of all these misconceptions is borne out of wilful ignorance and fear of knowledge, disguised as ‘preserving the status-quo’?

But I concede that you could be right. Even after I explained myself three times, I suspect many readers still think a topic on religion will be about ‘my god vs your god vs no god’, and nothing else. I’m interested in finding out about other people’s religion so I can understand them better. Not in a competition between Shiva and Moses.

Oh well. Calling it a day.

Shalom. God bless. Salaam. Ommm. Boyanbolomi (am I missing out some other words of well-wishing?)