Excerpts from The Enquirer.
MP for Tanjong Pagar Baey Yam Keng engages his residents at a session held once every two months, an intiative he started a few months after his first parliament session–Photo: Chong Zi Liang
At the height of the debate over Section 377A of the Penal Code, Member of Parliament (MP) Baey Yam Keng spoke up against the law banning homosexual sex. If Parliament took a vote on the issue, he would vote to repeal it, Mr Baey said at a forum on the legislation held in the middle of 2007.
While he drew loud applause at the forum for his comments, Mr Baey received negative feedback from members of the public subsequently. A letter was even published in the Straits Times Forum, admonishing him for reflecting his own view instead of the majority.
“Someone wrote in an online forum that as a MP representing the people, I should represent the majority view,” the MP for Tanjong Pagar Group Representative Constituency said.
Visit The Enquirer for the full report.
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TOC,
please note that the url provided to go to the Enquirer is not working.
btw, is it correct to say the enquirer is not the singapore enquirer?
I think its funny that an MP giving an opinion is called dissent. so strong a word. i better learn from online dictionary.
“So if you all think I am some alien with horns. Please just drop me a line here. And I will gladly crawl back into my spaceship and fly off somewhere else. If I get no complains, I will remain here in TOC.”
haha You’re totally NORMAL SD!
Eye-I SD (SingaporeDaddy)! ~me parading in pirate’s costume~
31) suffer in slience on December 2nd, 2008 11.05 pm I have emailed to my MP to seek help and to follow-up on my case after meet the people’s session. My emails has all been ignored.
If MP cannot be bothered to help residents, what can I do ?
Its nothing new at the meet-the-people section too, just imagine so many folks queuing up and waited for hours and when the MP arrived, as usual he will be accompanied with those carrying his bag and stuff into the office and all we hear from them was, our MP is very busy and if you have anything to ask, please go to see our respective officers instead. If this is the case, then why asked the people to queue up for hours? is it for show? or to make the MP feel important? after all why pay them so much $$$ and all they do is sit on his ass and sign some papers only.
Hi Observer(SG-HK), gemami and Fellow Citizens;
me am very pleased that TOC has provided us a venue to meet, talk, discuss and squabble, most importantly a place where we learn to be enlightened.
Me very serious about livings but very easy going, thanks a lot to my late father, he led a very simple life. All I need are food, shelter, kins and friends, all others are of higher pursuits. Nature has being kind to me, It has given me a normal mind and a healthy body and has not beset me with misfortune.
As normal humans, we treasure integrity, cherish sincerity and long for love and freedom. When all these attributes and values are common and plentiful, satisfaction,happiness and joy naturally bloom in tandem. CONVERSELY, the lack of freedom and love will lead to calamity and misfortune. The deaths of a 15 year boy who leaped to end his life in protest to his parent and teacher/school and a fun loving successful young lawyer at Mumbai sent to heaven by unhappy terrorists are signs of a society and the World gone wrong.
I am born and live in a society which evolves from a (British)colony to a self administer country. There was nothing dramatic in the change of ownership of the Land, it was a cordial hand-over and that’s all to it. BUT, the Leadership lead/enforced evolutions(changes) of the Local Cultures, Heritages and Traditional Values are truly revolutionary and repugnant. Singaporeans slowly had their freedoms and choices of habitats and lifestyles ‘institutionalized’; where one stays, educated, to marry or be single, how many children to produce or not to produce(incentives/forfeitures and punishments-whichever applicable), where to smoke(tobacco) and even the Language of ones’ education are no more free choices. SEE WHAT WE HAVE LOST????? The most treasurable, cherishable, and valueable, almost all taken away.
Essential Public Services such as housing, transport, healthcare, education and utilities were privatised ad corporatized, even non-essential goods retail and marketing are operated by state-own entities such as NTUC Supermarket, NTUC Incomes(financial products), Betting Outlets and Cheers(24hrs retail outlet). With almost every activity in the hands of the State, we witnessed and are witnessing how these enterprises take care of their bottomlines rather than the fair pricings and State Responsibilty and Duty of welfares for citizens. Consumptions are greatly encourage or better businesses and the people are inculcated to lead live of material possessions.
The above-mentioned are but some issues that caused/causes heartaches, disappointments and sadness.
I had visited the P65ers’ Blogs to interact with some of the younger MPs and my impressions of them fell way below my expectations. They were not keen to engage on above-mentioned topics, evasions and deflections were some of their tactics and as a whole, I feel they lack idealisms of living, a loving an caring society and duty of being.
There is too much to rant; let me keep some for other days.
Looking forwards to meet some of You in person.
patriot
Wow! Very good revelations here. I guess your personal communication/experiences tell you a lot about the people in the limelight, whether they are really sincere in helping or not.
I am in the opinion that a life of “material possessions” is not all that bad if possessions actually help to sustain animal/plant life and that possessions are not all for one self. I hope that the sharing and discussing here is not viewed as “politicizing’. I find that the ‘crowd’ here is so generally…much more well-behaved than some forums where riots and flames break out almost every other day!
Hi Patriot,
You never fail to touch me with your comments. Your little post encapsulate so much of what most of us are trying to put across. Yet there are more you say? This thought fills me with mixed emotions. On the one hand, I can’t wait to hear more from you but on the other hand, ‘more’ translates to heartaches and heartbreaks more than you have already conveyed.
I too, have lived a blessed life so far. There are no major issues in my life to worry about. I have a respectable job earning quite a decent income. This does not mean that I start jumping up for joy with my lot in life. I can’t because no matter what, human beings are inter-connected. Oftentimes, when we see another in suffering and pain, we too feel the urge to reach out to help in whatever little way we can.
This is one of the biggest reason why I cannot fathom why this PAP govt cannot see it in them to do what normal human beings would do. There are many (and I mean many) expletives I have in store to use on them but then again I would be demeaning myself would I? Yet, rant we must so that others may feel the impact and depth of our frustrations and concern.
Just like any of those sitting in high places, I too, could easily walk away and think nothing more about others around me. But I will die will lots of guilt knowing that I did not do anything about it. It is this that drives me and gives me the energy to continue to strive with the poor folks for a better tomorrow.
I would like to relate a story and I hope to keep it short.
I was cycling home one night when I heard a loud ‘THUD!’ about 50m ahead of me. I did not think much of it until I came face to face with a young man lying by the kerb of the road with blood all over the place. His friends were gathered around him calling out his name and doing nothing else, possibly still in shock.
I jumped off my bike, placed it behind the young man and switch on the bicycle light to full to warn the on-coming traffic. I felt his pulse and look around for a public phone (mobiles were far and few at that time). The nearest phone was more than 100m away at the nearest hdb block of flats. The poor chap was still alive but his pulse was growing weaker. Motorists were zooming past, slowing down but none stopped to helped. I put myself into the middle of the road and stopped the next taxi that came along. He tried to evade me but I chased after him and banged on his car. He stopped. I yanked opened the door and he tried to say something to me. I shouted to him to radio for an ambulance. That was all I needed him to do. He radioed and zoomed off again. I know his fear, very typical that people would rather disappear than to be called to be a witness later.
I went back to the poor chap and talked to him, to stay strong and to hang in there, even though he was lying there unconscious. His pulse was almost gone. The ambulance arrived and the paramedics rushed to help him. They gave up after listening to his heartbeat with their stethoscope and pronounced him dead.
I quietly walked toward the paramedic and questioned her; “Are you sure he is dead? I could still feel his pulse with my fingers and you could not hear it with your stethoscope?”. She replied in a hush tone and this is what she said: “Better to let one die with such extensive head injury”. I was stunned while she continued with what she was doing.
Till this day, I carry this regret deep inside my heart, that I should have pushed harder for the paramedic to account for her death pronouncement when the victim was still alive.
So you see, this is one life-changing episode for me. I will never back down again in similar situation when it is clear that a wrong has been made. Never.
For the MP rising to repeal the law against sex between homosexuals…wow… hasn’t he got better things to represent his voters! Homosexual acts must be condone…its an dsigustin sight and furthermore paints an ugly picture to sex! Homosexuals better be extremely discreet how you act and behave in the public! Get help or otherwise live a very private live!
Modernise here, NOT westernise!
Come on lah Raaj, that’s a bit too strong lah. After all they are also human beings. We are all children of god after all. lets not turn this into a gay bash fest.
But I agree completely with you first sentence. 100%. There are plenty of other issues which touch the lives of singaporeans and residents alike which need dissenting – so that we can all works the gold standard of governance.
Nevermind, lets give Ah Baey time. I am sure he knows only too well this is a golden opportunity to touch base with the online community.
I am hopeful, he is not as patriot described terminally complacent as those folk in P-65.
After all, we should never ever forget, he is pap and he dares to dissent. So like quick gun murugan, this should be stroll in the park for him.
Have to go to another conference call, when he writes some pls pm me. thx
SD
I applaud his genuine effort to repeal the 377A (banning homosexuality). I hope this is how he will embark in his debut dissent against the ruling party. This issue is just peanuts compare to the minibonds ordeal, the GST hike and even the Mas selamat case, because gays make up a very small numbers and still widely unaccepted in conservative mainstream.
But its always the same..you start at the bottom, you are a rebel..free spirited and loads of ideals..Then you progress. Ranked higher in the hierarchy and you find yourself muted as the responsibilities and loyalty to the party is ever so strong. All eyes are watching, any remarks that would deem against the best insterest of the party will be taken into account. Then he will be the default scapegoat for any calamity to unfold..
C’mon guys, he’s no hero..Speaking out for a peanuts case is just a no show, here..
These are known as Public services:
1. Bus
2. Electricity
They have been privatised.
Hi singaporedaddy;
this is specially for You, your reading and deciphering of my comment(#7#15) was so uncanny, it was as though You had traversed my mind to my heart. You certainly helped me to put the message across so beautifully, much thanks!
Hey, someone once asked me how’s Darkness(of the Brotherhood) and where he was. I told him I just met him(Darkness) the previous night and asked him(friend) in return, if he wished to meet Darkness. He got excited and exclaimed that, that would be a joy and an honour. I then promised to bring darkness to see him that very night, do You think I fulfilled my promise?
Dear readers;
not too long ago, a local female scientist, a biologist, if memory served me right, claimed whilst presenting a paper on Environmental Policy, that humans enhance animal and plant protections and proliferations. How true is this statement? Kindly offer me some answers.
To gemami;
fortunately or unfortunately, we live in a tiny island, common and conventional wisdom would imply that a small pond should not have too much fish(es) or fish that are too big. It would be very unhealthy for the fishes and they will run out of foods very quickly. But some Singaporeans are no fishes, they are super talents who believe roads can be built underground, above ground when the surface are used up and buildings can be built on water. Water can be recycled, desalinated on top of buying it from other countries. Sounds well and good if we are birds, just that we are neither fishes nor birds BUT HUMANS. AND HUMANS DESERVES TO LIVE LIKE HUMANS, NOT LIKE ANIMALS, NOT LIKE PRODUCTION MACHINES.
Our PARLIAMENTARIANS only need to know just the basic respects to fellow humans who are their citizens and THEY WOULD(SHOULD) REALISE THEY HAVE HUMANITARIAN DUTIES TO FULFILL.
Are we asking too much?
patriot
Good Evening,
Hey you welcome patriot,
“Hey, someone once asked me how’s Darkness(of the Brotherhood) and where he was. I told him I just met him(Darkness) the previous night and asked him(friend) in return, if he wished to meet Darkness. He got excited and exclaimed that, that would be a joy and an honour. I then promised to bring darkness to see him that very night, do You think I fulfilled my promise?”
You know Patriot, I’ve be perfectly frank with you. I CANNOT understand why there is so much fuss and fascination abt Darkness. I really CANNOT.
When I think of Darkness the moniker, he is 99% lore and 1% reality – in the history of gaming and this is a fact and you can even go and check it out; he once turned back the largest siege machine every assembled. They were Immortals (a consortium of gamers based in the gulf) by just standing on a mountain ledge and blocking their way across this narrow pass called “the eye of the needle”. That’s how the legend goes.
Now I what really happened was this Patriot. Darkness did not know the great army before him were the immortals. If he knew, he would have turned into a rabbit and scooted off. You see the immortals have funny uniforms, for some reason they wear green pyjamas and cone hats, so they look a bit like leprechauns, so when Darkness stood bfr this great army which was sent by the Sultan to kill him, he though maybe snow white and seven dwarfs and a few thousand of their friends got lost. And wandered into a serious gaming story board, it happens. So he laughed at them from the top of this ridge.
But you got to understand, Darkness doesn’t have a happy laugh, it’s more like a haunting sneering echoing laugh like Dracula when he wins a round of poker – that’s how he’s programmed his voice. So when this army below heard it they scattered – they thought it was an ambush or something.
Now the funny thing is this Patriot, when this story is told again and again. And as it goes round the world a few times and to the moon and back again. Salt and pepper gets added. Somewhere down the line someone says, his cape was fluttering like a flag. Others said the caliph who heard it died instantly from a spirit arrow yada yada yada yada yada. Then poems are written about it. Pictures are painted. Songs are scripted. And it just snowballs Patriot.
But you know what Patriot, to me Darkness is just a very average Joe. A very soft spoken man with impeccable manners who likes to cook and take his time with things. That is how I will always see my friend.
Nothing more or less, the question Patriot is which Darkness did your friend dine with that night?
SD
Don’t tell me he is also one of THOSE !
btw, is it correct to say the enquirer is not the singapore enquirer? – wrong url (#51)
Yes. Singapore Enquirer and The Enquirer are two different online newspapers.
31) suffer in slience on December 2nd, 2008 11.05 pm I have emailed to my MP to seek help and to follow-up on my case after meet the people’s session. My emails has all been ignored.
If MP cannot be bothered to help residents, what can I do ?
Really nothing we can do about such MP ?
Hi patriot,
You are absolutely spot-on when you say conventional wisdom is sorely lacking in this govt. How many of the things we see around us today defies conventional wisdom; common sense even?
I have said this many, many time before. This govt needs to look inward from time to time and not outward all the time.
This PAP govt has always taken care of the interests of the majority who support them. With their support, whether by choice or bought; it is able to put tiny Singapore on the world map, standing alongside first world economies. This is fine and we cannot fault it too much.
What this PAP govt has failed and is failing to do is to take care of the interests of a smaller group of people who does not go along with their blueprint for what Singapore ought to be. This group of Singaporeans are crying out for basic subsistence needs. Worse of all, their cries are degraded, trampled upon and they are even derided for not helping themselves and that they are always asking for the govt’s help. This is the most irksome component of this PAP govt. the blame game.
They know, they’ve heard it countless times, that they have lost touch with the people but I doubt they really unstersatnd what ‘lost touch’ mean. I really hope someone up their in the cabinet position would, in one of these miraculous day, take some time off to reflect on what this mean and to make an effort to come to terms with this reality. The reality of the suffering ones who really need direct help from the govt, and to stop pushing them away to some self-help programs.
I live in constant fear, i admit. But not in fear of this govt but the fear that some uprising might be staged in the coming years, 5, 10, 15 years? I don’t know. What I know is that most of our children will have to face it when it comes. And I dread this the most. This is my fear.
To our civil servants in policy decision making positions, I implore that you carry the voices of the ground to our leaders. Do not hide the ground sentiments from them. Do not sugar-coat them. Speak with your hearts and with honesty. Speak the exact words they speak. Your bosses know you have not been honest and that is why there is a dire need to allow you to speak freely, as an independent individual, not bound by any if the rules set by them. You too have a duty to help govern the people of Singapore, your own family at large. Show you love for your country by loving your people. Please.
As someone who comes online only occasionally. I find this all most intriguing.
What do we have here. The liaison of the brotherhood has issued a direct challenge to MP for Tanjong Pagar Baey Yam Keng to come on down.
But look at the chronology of events.
“38) singaporedaddy on December 3rd, 2008 8.19 am Ah Baey YK & my fellow netizens
Allow me to speak very plainly Baey. No one cares about gays. Or 337A. They may be polite about it, but that is what they all really feel in their heart.
We all have more important things to worry abt e.g bread and butter issues like unemployment & rising cost, more taxes.
You must learn the art of screwing the right hole. ”
To the casual observer, the finer details may be lost, but to a seasoned negotiator such as myself. it is clear.
in the first part where the liaison states, “no one cares abt gays.” He has decided to take a calculated risk. He must have known what happened to Thio and how he could even be pelted to dust by the whole of the blogosphere. But despite that, by choosing to do what he did, in a few words, he believes the crowd will go with me here.
But bear in mind this why couldnt Prof Thio Li-ann pull off this one act with a level of singularity that the brotherhood liaison managed?
This is why I suspect, we may be dealing with a very skilled negotiator here. As here he has been very careful not to structured it as we against them, but instead the MP for the Tanjong pagar could only have supported either gays or the rest of us.
So by purposely structuring as either you cut the cake or eat it, but you cannot do both, is it so unusual that most people will go with him and sell off the former. He calculated right and he took a risk that payed out.
That also means in one stroke he has undone everything this article tries to extol abt Mr Baey Yam Keng. Since the article frames the gay thing as the jewel in the crown. What happens when the liaison officer tells the whole world it is sold in the pasar malam for buy one get one free? It loses it value. And Mr Baey Yam Keng’s contribution seems small when compared to more urgent issues such as
The electricity price hike? HLP minibond? Transport fee hikes? Mas Selamat? Minister pay hikes? by-election of Ong Chit Chung? Town Council investment fiasco?
Very interesting.
Good Morning Mr White,
Allow me to put my point across in plain and simple English. As I have a full round of meetings today, so 5 min is all I can spare with this mail.
Did I go through ALL the “steps” like you broke it down?
No, my life is not that complicated. I am not saying that I don’t think before I ask or decide to do something, but I certainly don’t approach things it with the level of pre-meditation that you may be suggesting here. In fact, I don’t think anyone even has time to do except maybe Dan Brown or Sun Tzu.
If I am hungry I just eat; if I need to go to the toilet, I go and if something really concerns me and I don’t know; I ask a question.
And while we are on this topic of decision making; let me share with you some of my views; homosexuality? To be honest, I am ambivalent about it. To me it’s maybe 0.5 /10 could be a 10, if I am sharing a communal bath with one and it sticks out like a periscope – The electricity price hike? That’s a big deal, as it hits my wallet directly, maybe a 6 /10. HLP minibond? Has to be a 0/10 as I don’t have any equity there. Petrol hikes? 8 /10 as I own a 3 litre. Mas Selamat? I don’t know, it should be more important, I guess, but for some reason, it’s too distant / Minister pay hikes? Maybe 7 /10 as I am concerned about value, quality and delivery reliability like most folk / by-election of Ong Chit Chung? 2/10. Town Council investment fiasco? 7.5/10 as I consider a benchmark of competence and good governance – so yes, that is important. I expect leaders to take responsibility for their actions.
But Mr White the thing that I consider a perfect 10/10 is the whole issue that I have highlighted to Andrew (see no.38 comment) and even brought this to the attention of Ah Baey in the same post.
That’s jugular to me and let me share with you why; as I shared with Andrew, I have ABSOLUTELY ZERO IDEA HOW IS IT EVEN POSSIBLE TO CREATE AND SUSTAIN AN EFFECTIVE GOVT WITHOUT COMPETITION?
Now Mr White I gave plenty of case studies to Andrew to illustrate my concern. I am a tax payer and as I said, I concerned because this goes right into the belly of the whole issue of good governance and gold standard public administration. I want to make sure that good people are in the wheel room – do you understand? So I need to go behind the curtain and take a look at the process.
I’ve have tried to find out, but for some funny reason, the strait times and even academia and the LKY school etc seem strangely silent about this whole issue. Neither has TOC even written a dedicated article to broach this subject of how might a one party system be able to be a reliable producer of these goodies.
So I took the opportunity to present this question to Ah Baey, as not only is he PAP, but he also dares to dissent – so I was hoping that this would be a really great opportunity for him to get to know us all online, since he is into “organic experiments” – so I went el naturale and fired the question here.
Do you now understand Mr White? Take my word for it; sometimes a question is just a question, no da vinci code, no holy grail or royal blood line, no mystery even just a simple question that’s all it is.
Now I have to go for my meeting, have a nice day.
Good Day
SD (The Internet Liaison officer of the brotherhood)
Good Morning white,
Allow me to put my point across in plain and simple English. As I have a full round of meetings today, so 5 min is all I can spare with this mail.
Did I go through ALL the “steps” like you broke it down?
No, my life is not that complicated. I am not saying that I don’t think before I ask or decide to do something, but I certainly don’t approach things it with the level of pre-meditation that you may be suggesting here. In fact, I don’t think anyone even has time to do except maybe Dan Brown or Sun Tzu.
If I am hungry I just eat; if I need to go to the toilet, I go and if something really concerns me and I don’t know; I ask a question.
And while we are on this topic of decision making; let me share with you some of my views; homosexuality? To be honest, I am ambivalent about it. To me it’s maybe 0.5 /10 could be a 10, if I am sharing a communal bath with one and it sticks out like a periscope – The electricity price hike? That’s a big deal, as it hits my wallet directly, maybe a 6 /10. HLP minibond? Has to be a 0/10 as I don’t have any equity there. Petrol hikes? 8 /10 as I own a 3 litre. mas Se lamat? I don’t know, it should be more important, I guess, but for some reason, it’s too distant / Minister pay hikes? Maybe 7 /10 as I am concerned about value, quality and delivery reliability like most folk / by-election of Ong Chit Chung? 2/10. Town Council investment fiasco? 7.5/10 as I consider a benchmark of competence and good governance – so yes, that is important. I expect leaders to take responsibility for their actions.
But white the thing that I consider a perfect 10/10 is the whole issue that I have highlighted to Andrew (see no.38 comment) and even brought this to the attention of baey in the same post.
That’s jugular to me and let me share with you why; as I shared with andrew, I have absolutely zero idea how it is even possible to create and sustain an effective govt without competition?
Now Mr White I gave plenty of case studies to Andrew to illustrate my concern. I am a tax payer and as I said, I concerned because this goes right into the belly of the whole issue of good governance and gold standard public administration. I want to make sure that good people are in the wheel room – do you understand? So I need to go behind the curtain and take a look at the process.
I’ve have tried to find out, but for some funny reason, the strait times and even academia and the LKy school etc seem strangely silent about this whole issue. Neither has TOC even written a dedicated article to broach this subject of how might a one party system be able to be a reliable producer of these goodies.
So I took the opportunity to present this question to baey, as not only is he PAP, but he also dares to di ssent – so I was hoping that this would be a really great opportunity for him to get to know us all online, since he is into “organic experiments” – so I went el naturale and fired the question here.
Do you now understand white? Take my word for it; sometimes a question is just a question, no da vinci code, no holy grail or royal blood line, no mystery even just a simple question that’s all it is.
Now I have to go for my meeting, have a nice day.
Good Day
SD (The Internet Liaison officer of the br otherhood)
99832 -resend
To the casual observer, the finer details may be lost, but to a seasoned negotiator such as myself. it is clear.
For a start, I do not think a ‘seasoned negotiator’ would tell the whole world that he is ‘seasoned’ during the course of negotiation. When he does this, he is effectively telling the listeners that they are all so stupid and incapable of discerning for themselves what is right or wrong that he needs to step in to ‘correct’ their thinkings. This in itself identifies the fake from the genuine ones.
Secondly, by the self-proclaimation, you expect listeners to be taken in by all your suspicions. Again, a seasoned negotiator would not do this especially when some of the points put acrossed are copied from all over. It smacks of one common trait – character assassination.
Leave the poor liaison officer alone and let netizens decide for themselves, please.
Finally, a seasoned negotiator might not make a good negotiator at all. He could be one who constantly makes seasonal mistakes when negotiating.
I am not taken in by it.
Good Morning Mr White,
Allow me to put my point across in plain and simple English. As I have a full round of meetings today, so 5 min is all I can spare with this mail.
Did I go through ALL the “steps” like you broke it down?
No, my life is not that complicated. I am not saying that I don’t think before I ask or decide to do something, but I certainly don’t approach things it with the level of pre-meditation that you may be suggesting here. In fact, I don’t think anyone even has time to do except maybe Dan Brown or Sun Tzu.
If I am hungry I just eat; if I need to go to the toilet, I go and if something really concerns me and I don’t know; I ask a question.
And while we are on this topic of decision making; let me share with you some of my views; homosexuality? To be honest, I am ambivalent about it. To me it’s maybe 0.5 /10 could be a 10, if I am sharing a communal bath with one and it sticks out like a periscope – The electricity price hike? That’s a big deal, as it hits my wallet directly, maybe a 6 /10. HLP minibond? Has to be a 0/10 as I don’t have any equity there. Petrol hikes? 8 /10 as I own a 3 litre. Mas Selamat? I don’t know, it should be more important, I guess, but for some reason, it’s too distant / Minister pay hikes? Maybe 7 /10 as I am concerned about value, quality and delivery reliability like most folk / by-election of Ong Chit Chung? 2/10. Town Council investment fiasco? 7.5/10 as I consider a benchmark of competence and good governance – so yes, that is important. I expect leaders to take responsibility for their actions.
But Mr White the thing that I consider a perfect 10/10 is the whole issue that I have highlighted to Andrew (see no.3 8 comment) and even brought this to the attention of Ah Baey in the same post.
That’s jugular to me and let me share with you why; as I shared with Andrew, I have ABSOLUTELY ZERO IDEA HOW IS IT EVEN POSSIBLE TO CREATE AND SUSTAIN AN EFFECTIVE GOVT WITHOUT COMPETITION?
Now Mr White I gave plenty of case studies to Andrew to illustrate my concern. I am a tax payer and as I said, I concerned because this goes right into the belly of the whole issue of good governance and gold standard public administration. I want to make sure that good people are in the wheel room – do you understand? So I need to go behind the curtain and take a look at the process.
I’ve have tried to find out, but for some funny reason, the strait times and even academia and the LKY school etc seem strangely silent about this whole issue. Neither has TOC even written a dedicated article to broach this subject of how might a one party system be able to be a reliable producer of these goodies.
So I took the opportunity to present this question to Ah Baey, as not only is he PAP, but he also dares to dissent – so I was hoping that this would be a really great opportunity for him to get to know us all online, since he is into “organic experiments” – so I went el naturale and fired the question here.
Do you now understand Mr White? Take my word for it; sometimes a question is just a question, no da vinci code, no holy grail or royal blood line, no mystery even just a simple question that’s all it is.
Now I have to go for my meeting, have a nice day.
Good Day
SD (The Internet Liaison officer of the brotherhood)
9803475 RS
mr white, I have posted my reply to your post, when it eventually works it’s way out of the spam filter, you take and run with it. thanks. sd (have to run for another meeting)
why go after him all the time. You cant be a very good negotiator
Why keep gunning down the liason officer of the brotherhood? The way I see it, its them who is always picking fights with him all the time. Probably the same gang as Lazarus & Co.
Btw TheOnlineCitizen where is the liason officers reply to mr white?
Is it on moderation?
wHATS going on?
SD, may be our SPM realised that the diet he’s been brought up to believe as HEALTHY isn’t really healthy? Or may be he’s still in the dark about processed food high in refined sugar and carbohydrates and not much other nutrients (number 1 source of heart and kidney killer)? Who knows?
My family is sending our country’s piped water to see what’s inside the water. We had asked ourselves why the need of sale of water filters if our water is really safe for drinking. (Not saying our water isn’t safe but we are curious what REALLY is inside. We are also interested to know about the new water that is gonna be piped in from Australia – or is this being done?)
This is after a series of discoveries, not limited to the realisation that copper nets rusting underneath water causes farmed fish to be sick and that they live in shallow water without room for “normal swimming or hunt of food and exercise”. Fish becomes more expensive due to the “extra requirement” to feed them man-made vitamins.
Of course, the government does not keep everything under its radar, its focus is on who is speeding and who needs to be fined, etc.
It is not so much of a national problem; it’s a global problem. (May be this can explain Gemami’s question I quote here,”Dear readers; not too long ago, a local female scientist, a biologist, if memory served me right, claimed whilst presenting a paper on Environmental Policy, that humans enhance animal and plant protections and proliferations. How true is this statement? Kindly offer me some answers.”
Humans can enhance as much as destroy sustainable life.
SD said,”I have ABSOLUTELY ZERO IDEA HOW IS IT EVEN POSSIBLE TO CREATE AND SUSTAIN AN EFFECTIVE GOVT WITHOUT COMPETITION?”
That’s a very good point; I would say the government cannot sustain an effective government without SERIOUS REVIEWS to new or existing policies. The government now is relying on its own mirror, but it needs something better than a mirror.
Hi singaporedaddy;
my friend is enjoying his great company every night when the Sun sets, your darkness is soft spoken, great at cooking, but I guess not very gentle. I used to read his wonderful articles at IS. He rejected no comment(post) like those silly ones from me.
Our darkness is consummately quiet, great company for all and sundry except for nocturnal animals. And my darkness is definitely not legendary.
Feel like relating some of my posting experiences at the P65ers’ Blogs.
The first posting I made happened to be at MP Baeys’ Blog. He maintained politically right postures and gently forceful in reasonings(unamenable, unconconvincing) all the time which kind of made me felt uninteresting. But, I must accord him accolades for not deleting any postings(of mine), great sportmanship!
MP Teo Ser Luck, comparatively more forthcoming and he too ensured he was politically correct, again I felt bored. Same accolades to him for not deleting my posts.
MP Lam Pin Min was more engaging though similarly politically correct but slightly less forceful. Did not response to certain posts but did publish all comments.
MP Faishal left me the impression that he was only interested in engaging commenters that were more friendly in their comments. I got my first comment published with no response from him and subsequent comments were all unpublished. I posted a few comments within a couple of weeks and implored him to respond but to no avail. He greatly disappointed me, not because he refused or failed to response but for his lack of good manners for I had not posted any frivolous comments.
The Month long interactions with the above-mentioned MPs was not fruitful to(for) me and I gave up. I have had the impression that they were too mindful of the ‘Whip’ even though they blogged to engage the people.
I am very disappointed that almost all local politicians from both the Ruling Party and Alternative or the Honourable Oppositions, are not with us here in Cyberspace.
Are we not worth their engagements?
patriot
“That’s a very good point; I would say the government cannot sustain an effective government without SERIOUS REVIEWS to new or existing policies. The government now is relying on its own mirror….”
Well Kelly, now I am not only confused. I’ve got the shakes now. I am really nervous.
Forgive me kelly dear, but if memory serves and I recount all the way back to my averagely miserable childhood – the last time I heard about someone trying to “improve the system” by having a conversation with a mirror – she ended up as an old hag peddling poison apples to Snow white & the seven dwarfs.
Remember, “mirror on the wall, whose the fairest of them all?”
No, no, no…..as I said, I hope Ah Baey will take some time off from his “organic experiments” and DIY Aruyedic yogurt making project and come on down here and shed more light into this whole discussion. I personally think, this is a golden opportunity for him to project online and touch base with all of us netizens. I mean always remember, he’s PAP and he dares to dissent – so you’ve got to remember, if he doesn’t do it, then we might as well all pack up our bags and go back home, bc I don’t think the rest will.
I mean why is so difficult to get a simple answer to a simple question? I don’t understand.
SD
Good evening Patriot,
“Our darkness is consummately quiet, great company for all.” Yes, he must be in his element then. Good. Kindly convey my regards to the father of the game.
SD (Internet Liason officer of the brotherhood)
Dear Patriot
“…Environmental Policy, that humans enhance animal and plant protections and proliferations. How true is this statement?”
The following links may help to provide some answers to how truth the statement your biologist friend had cited.
http://www.wcs.org/globalconservation/Asia/centralasia
http://www.greatsaltlakeaudubon.org/pdf/policy.pdf
Of course the aforesaid link are but two of the many wild-life conservation Society and conservation policy. I have made a comment earlier in one of the post highlighting that we the humankind are above all living things on planet earth and we have the responsibilities to ensure the health and wealth of planet earth including the health state of all living animals and plants. In the name of progress, we the humankind have inadvertently destroyed much of natural habitat of animals and the deforestation to meet the insatiable appetite of humankind needs had cause enormous destruction to the rain forest causing not only to the survival of plants and plant eating insects, it also partially contributed to the warming of climate. While we humankind offers our concerns and compassionate to our fellow needing man/woman, we too have to spare a thought for the non-human living things that we so take it for granted.
Hope it helps. However, if this is not what your friend is referring to, please ignore whatever that had been posted. Sorry for the digression.
Perhaps it will be a good to reiterate my original question again to Ah Baey after your digression.
Here goes.
That what you can make all the digressions you want, how dat?
38) singaporedaddy on December 3rd, 2008 8.19 am Ah Baey YK & my fellow netizens
Allow me to speak very plainly Baey. No one cares about gays. Or 337A. They may be polite about it, but that is what they all really feel in their heart.
We all have more important things to worry abt e.g bread and butter issues like unemployment & rising cost, more taxes.
You must learn the art of screwing the right hole. If the house is on fire, don’t talk about whether geraniums prints are better than daisies to decorate your living room. If you don’t understand then go for #32, leave it to the professionals, sit down bfr you fall down.
So there are many others issues besides 377A facing Singaporeans and residents – rising cost, unemployment, more taxes and it goes on and on that requires serious engagement.
So let me kick the ball and get the issues rolling Ah Baey, bc I don’t have time to waste. Otherwise go for #32
For me personally Ah Baey, the main issue is How do we get good and capable people to run the government? As a tax payer that is the most important question. Because if there are stupid people running the show; then No. 32 comes in lah.
Now this question was posed to me by one Andrew here on TOC and this was what I wrote to him recently, its somewhere in the archives. Read it Baey, give me your feedback.
“To Andrew,
This question has always trouble me, “In Singapore, we must only fine tune those PAP policies and institutions which have gone astrayed.”
Bc if you really think hard about it, the whole idea of “change” is given, it’s really a non issue.
So the real question MUST turns on only WHAT will be catalyst that will drive and sustain change; and here you really need to understand that every oligarchy and it doesn’t matter whether it’s a 100+ yr firm like Lehman or an exotic species of birds living in some remote island in the Pacific has a built in mechanism of self destruction; if its not constantly under threat, regularly challenged or if there are even safety nets everything just corrodes and decays; that’s why Malaysia is so screwy; they boast to the world that they can produce automobiles, but what they don’t tell you is; they’re still passing off 30 year designs as the new in thing; result: it’s no good – it doesn’t go around. Proton sells only in Malaysia (period) – it cannot compete like Toyota or BMW globally – and why bc for so many years the playing field was weighted in their favor; levies were imposed on imported cars, they relied on political patronage etc. So with time is it such a wonder they became so riven with inefficiencies and backwardness that they’re not even in the league table.
You see Andrew, after a prolonged period of zero competition; EVERY oligarchy will begin to fossilized that’s really the detonator that sets the mechanism of self destruction ticking and they may even begin ritualizing how they see the world and react to it and in no time they’re in a dead end; that’s why a bunch of jungle book kids with AK-47’s could kill so many people in the Oberai hotel in Mumbai; I mean if those dummies pulled exactly the same stunt in lets say King David hotel in Jerusalem; I guarantee you in 20 sec flat all of them will be hanging on the wall in the grande lobby like those shrunken heads exhibits in the P-65 blog. Because even a chamber maid could probably snuff them out with tissue paper or a tampon; she’s probably an ex Charlie Angel Mossad trained assassin – and why that? Because peace is never ever taken for granted in the state of Israel – the Jews are always in a competitive race for survival. Result: skill-at-arms improves; it’s constantly replenished and nourished to meet the new security challenges.
My feel is this is the ONLY way to drive change that consistently produces good for the country and people Andrew – is by stressing the system and if possible forcing it to operate in a discomfort zone – and that simply means buying into the whole idea of healthy competition.
The power of one is no good – it just doesn’t come around.
That’s why whenever, I see in board of directors meetings people cliquing together to form mutual appreciation clubs; and giving themselves creamy bonuses or trying to convince others they’re the masters of the universe or some anointed dream team; that really scares the living day lights out of me; bc usually 9 out 10 that’s the surest indication; the end is very near; the next act is going to be the curtain call – it’s time to smile and serious think about an escape plan – In summary, the power of one can never be a reliable producer of good – its no good.
SD”
I want to know Ah Baey, how do you deal with this matter of perpetuation to produce good. Share with us all.
I have to go for my 5 km run now. Remember if you answer this well, you project successfully online. That will be your doggy biscuit. If not no # 32 lah.
Go Ah Baey
SD (Internet Liaison officer of the brotherhood)
Or maybe if this “digression” keeps continuing. I’ve just drop a line to the ASDF and blow up this whole thing into a mushroom cloud by coming up with a 100 page report like this, only this time, it will be a detailed study on the merits and demerits of a one party vs two party system:
http://www.intelligentsingaporean.com/?p=3
Like I said. I pay my taxes. I just want a simple answer to a very simple question.
So if you ppl want to play games with me, we will just up the stakes – the question is do you have the balls to play the game?
You think about that.
SD
Good morning Observer(SG-HK) and all ! !
Dear Observer; I posed that Question in response to #Post 57.
In fact, I had posted to say that the greatest destroyer of the environment and the Universe is man(kind).
I just wanted to check the veracity/accuracy of a statement made by a ‘scientist’.
Thanks alot from me.
patriot
Good Morning all,
I got great news for all of you. Especially many of the Brotherhood Press readers. Please spread the word and bring them all here. Darkness will be visiting us here today.
Yes, indeed this is a rare privilege, even for me. After all I am just a lowly liaison officer, a mere insignificant cog in the space diplomatic corps – I was told he wished to personally see the “Turning and Turning, Falcon Widens Gyre.” I dont know what he means this, he has a habit of speaking in riddles but I am certain that will thrill to bits people like Lazarus, eiro, widowmaker, observer (SG-HK) and most of all you Patriot.
I just thought, I’ve share this good news with all of you. As since I came to TOC not so long ago. All of you have taken the trouble to give me such a uniquely unforgettable reception. I just thought it would be a good idea to reciprocate the favor with a spot of good will.
Do try to have a very nice day. Its time for my daily 5 km run. And do remind Ah Baey – the question in 38 and 81 still stands. As Observer (SG-HK) highlighted, he is such a “sportman’s” so really, that added with the fact, he’s PAP and he dares to dissent should really put him in good stead.
After all as I said, I cannot think of a better opportunity to engage with the online community. I am sure even Ah Baey will have to agree with that?
“Long live the brotherhood!”
SD (The Internet Liaison officer of the Brotherhood)
I posted my reply to you patriot 83 at December 5th, 2008 8.37 am / it shall reach you once it has been lifted from moderation mode
Hello singaporedaddy and good morning!
Thank You for bringing great news, darkness did not make me feel good last night as I was thinking how my Rights were violated.
And now You bring me great news that he will be here to console me, especially me.
Feel very honoured.
patriot
Hello Singaporedaddy and others,
Let us not escalate the matter further than where it has already gone. We need to stop and make adjustments.
I have always believed from the very first day. It doesnt pay for us to alienate the brotherhood. The last time our govt came up with the name and shame nonsense, it didnt break their spirit, it just made their will stronger. They just clumped closer together.
Its like roaches, the more you spray them, the more resistance they built up
In the AIMs project, Yawning Bread and many others marginalized them and the end result was, they went their own way to come up with a separate report.
I have personally felt that all this fighting is a waste.
I want peace Singaporedaddy of the brotherhood. Go and tell Darkness that we can stop the “gyre” turning and prevent the center from giving way.
As a token of my sincerity. I will try my best to give you an explanation to your question, you presented in #38
This is my own take. I am not a PAP man, but let us say, I love my country and like many of you. I can understand why you are all concerned. But when you ask Mr Baey such a question here, you must understand, this question can never be answered. I am not saying this is right or wrong. Let us just say, this is how politics is conducted in Singapore.
I will however, give you my version of why a one party system can “reliably” produce good.
Bear in mind this need not even be PAP, but it could just as well explain why the monarchy has managed to retain their hold on power for millennia.
You see Singaporedaddy no matter what you wish to say, it is very similar to the brotherhood’s preoccupation with the whole issue of “skill-at-arms.” I have noticed this term being bandied around repeatedly in many essays once published by Darkness.
What legitimizes the whole idea of skill-at-arms? The reason why I am asking this question is, its central to my thesis that it is very possible to reliably produce good without competition. As competition need not be external, but just as Darkness once wrote said,
“For any people to be strong and gainful in seizing opportunities…..it cannot be premised on qualification alone…the system must be stronger than that… is why every civilization starting from the ancient Sumerians never ever shed the view that right to rule and lead was ultimately legitimized by the ability to command in the field.”
Did Darkness not say this Singaporedaddy?
And what was he saying. He believed that skill-at-arms could be furthered within the hegemony of the brotherhood. I did not have to be provoked externally as you claimed.
And Darkness even gave a good example of how this process of regeneration and renewal could be had. He asked again and again. How did the Romans perpetuate their skill-at-arms?
The ultimate strenght of the Roman legion. In the eyes of Darkness did not reside it the constitution or even the apparent democracy offered by the Senate or the Republic. Darkness was very clear as he said if that were the case, the skill of arms would have waned with the eclipse of the republic and the dawn of Caesar – but why didnt it happen?
Darkness attributed the ultimate strenght of the Roman army to what he called its system of recruitment. He liked it so much, he even copied it to mirror the hegemony of the brotherhood. He saw its system of recruitment based not on it high command but by its legionary encadrement, the centurionate. The Roman centurions, long service unit leaders drawn from the best of the enlisted ranks, formed the first body of profssioal fighting officers. It was they and not as to claim external forces that imbued the legions with the backbone and transmitted from generations to generations the code of discipline, conduct and accumulated store of skills-at-arms that allowed the Roman arms to be successfully carried against hundred of enemies over 5 centuries.
I have given you an explanation Singaporedaddy. Much of it has been drawn directly from the hand of Darkness himself.
As I said, we dont want to fight with the brotherhood.
This may be a good place to end the thread comment.
On record Singaporedaddy, you asked. You received an answer. And since most of what I have written comes directly from the previous writings of Darkness.
Can we say, this matter is concluded?
Tell me Singaporedaddy, do you fear peace more than war?
You asked. No one bothered to give you an answer. I did. I took the time. You could say I even made it at great cost and expense to myself, by working through the night and reviewing many of darkness writings which he onced posted in the IS and I gave you a reply.
I did it all for the love of my country. What may I ask are you doing all this for?
Hi guys,
Ok, this is getting way out of topic. The article is about Baey Yam Keng but now it has gone into what seems like personal gripes.
In order not to be accused of stifling freedom of expression, we will create a new post specially for you guys to carry on the debate/duel.
But please, do it in a civil manner – that is, no name-calling, no mischievous allegations, no vulgarities. Please do it with respect for each other.
This is a first for TOC.
This article is now closed for comments. Please post your exchanges in the new post which will be created soon.
Thanks.
Andrew Loh (no brotherhood, just a deputy editor. :)