singapore mental1 is alway liked this
only him
would he issued such an order
you think senoir/top immigration officer
give that order?
who revoke capt ryan permanant residency?
afterall capt ryan goh is just a pilot union head?
please lark
singapore government
you done an injustic
to the former author/minister
rajaratnam
when he wrote
the democratic oath

for justice and equality to ALL
based on DEMOCRACTIC soceity….
now you all know
when this oath take place
i turned MY back on it
never
placed my right hand on my heart to recite it….
~sigh~

this event shows that the singapore govt is no better than the Burmese military thugs.
it is an open secret that the singapore govt has condoned and continue to condone to this day the laundry of questionable money by these thugs through the banking system here.
What does the compliant AG have to say this time?

[i]2) mousedeer on December 27th, 2008 4.44 pm this event shows that the singapore govt is no better than the Burmese military thugs.[/i]
the minister of manpower
merely assumed that it just sending all this young men back to unemployment nia mey?
any ministers here have a 3rd eye profesis/vision?
none @ all?
let me be the 1 onced again
to fortell their future
upon their return to the great myammer airport
this young men will be welcome with open arms from the military thugs
straight to aunknown military prison
where this youngmen would be ^reducated^
by the way
anybody watched rambo IV?
have any of you peeps run through a landmines with military personnel betting this young men limbs as stakes?
you merely think
its a hollywood makeup story right?
last incident in rangoon
did you see demostarting students brains blown up with rubber bullets manufactured by singapore tech inc?
or is it just another hollywood movies?
our government ministers
when its time to meet st peter
go find the best legal eagles you can find in st peter’s court
don’t worry
belinda ang won’t be residing this case
thats for sured
she ain’t no jewish…..
let us prayed
may God have mercy on this lads………….
grant them an early death
if no 3rd countries grant them safe asylums

It is perfectly okay to send them back to Burma to protest. Why do it in Singapore?
Singapore should not be a conduit for them to conduct democracy demonstration here. Go back there to do it.

If this move is politically motivated, I would say it is a wrong call. Regimes do change, the people/groups you dismiss easily today, may form the ruling government of your neighbouring state one day.

[i]Lenox on December 27th, 2008 6.52 pm It is perfectly okay to send them back to Burma to protest. Why do it in Singapore?[/i]
you must be sittin in your aircon office the whole day right?
sleeping in your swimmin pool condo as well right
havin 3 grand meals/day as well?
have you ever mingled with the educated burmese
as an aquaintance or your fellow colleagues?
yes or no?
if the answer is NO
don’t come here
to tell other singaporeans
it perfectly OK to send them back to protest
didn’t the monks protest FIRST
when the price of oil/food went beyond control?
why didn’t the students started FIRST?
and off course
you didn’t hear of gunshots or rubber bullets flyin around as well?
would you?
you think
my profesis
is a story tellin one?
polpot also 1 nice guy what
he just kill scholars and educated people liked YOU
just for the sheer fun of it
when the monk FIRST protect
PEACEFULLY/orderly as well
the opposition leader that nice woman who won the election fairly and also a nobel prize winner who is still under house arrest
just asked our singapore government 1 favour
please do not support the military regimes on this 1/this cause
obviously
this part of the PLEA
you must have missed out
while playing tennis in YOUR protected condo….

Let us put the question to our esteemed FM George Yeo at http://beyondsg.typepad.com/ and
http://www.ephraim.blogspot.com/

I wonder if we can ask our respective MPs’ to help the Burmese enquire why their Work Permits are not renewed when they are still gainfully employed.

AskourMP

To protect their children, these parents pays so much money just to get their children out of the country to seek their promising future and now they are being send back just like that. Do those people responsible for the action knows what they are doing to these young innocent educated burmese when they arrived at their homeland? you have just committed murder to all these people by handing them over to their military regime , do you know that? have you ever think if these childrens were yours? why do such a terrible things to these humans, they are just like you and me? what kind of sin you people have committed in God’s eyes?

Jesus christ…..this is getting ridiculous……

Where are they gonna go ? I shudder to think what will happen to them if they return back to burma…

The world is small…..we are all humans.

i doubt they can go back to burma. and that they want to..

[i]me on December 27th, 2008 11.34 pm i doubt they can go back to burma. and that they want to..[/i]
they the whatever you called it
don’t want to go home
under the deportation orders
you don’t have a choice @ all
have you ever seen deportations
being carried out?
i have seen far too many
from london via bangkok china and throughout singapore…
you wouldn’t liked it @ all

politics within own country already very dark.

it is even worse between countries.

very scary.

those western country on surface at least show that they hate burma.

singapore can do something?

if they go back burma do not know what will happen to them?

maybe they can jump into uk or usa embassy to seek protection from singapore and burma government.

hope the us and uk will help them

instead of looking forward to see golden years ahead, singaporeans are now getting the feel of the darkening era, this is the end result of far sightings and good works of our self proclaimed $millionaires leaders.

Everytime i read stuff like this, I realize our gahment no longer makes a stand for universal truth and justice… sad. very sad. Uniquely Singapore

i think maybe internet will be the thing for a new political party to be successful.

internet may change the political scene in singapore.

but i am not sure if website like theonlinecitizen will be ban or not?

or people discussing in toc will be blacklist also?

politics are so dark.

I have to disagree on the article…Singapore did the right thing to ask these people with an ulterior motive here to leave.

Why should we be a base for these people, pay them their scholarship or subsidized their fees using our own taxpayer money, only for them to use these benefits as their foundation to set-up anti-government operations. As a Singaporean, I definitely do not want to become a sucker for these burmese!!

Be rational and stop being naive…we have no obligations at all to support these burmese, and they should notexpect us to support them either. It is also against the ASEAN constitution that no member countries should interfere with another’s internal situations…don’t you guys know about this…or you guys are simply ignoring such facts because of your prejudice.

I noticed the article came from Singapore Indian Voice Blog…and I supposed these are the people that came from India themselves as well…and if you should be so convinced of supporting thses burmese activists, why don’t rally your Indian government to support these activitists then…why come here to stir sh!t. Go home to your India and get your own government to support these Burmese. WHAT A BUNCH OF HYPOCRITES!!

SINGAPORE IS NOT CONDUIT TO THESE BURMESE, AND SINGAPORE SHOULD NOT SUPPORT THESE ANTI-GOVERNMENT BURMESE ACTIVIST…PERIOD!!!

Why are these idiots taking issue with Singapore? Since when we have to support them?

Why not take issue with Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippines, Thailand and Vietnam (being the closet neighbour to Burma, and with the closest people-to-people link) for not supporting these Burmese activists???? Why not get the Seceratry General of ASEAN to take-up the cause????

I hope TheOnlineCitizen should not become a platform where these foriegn activists can use to attack their government or Singapore’s government…we have no obligations to support these people’s causes, we have our own issues and problems with our government to work on and take issue with!!

TheOnlineCitizen is a platform for Singaporeans, not for these foreign idiots who expect us to support them!

EXPEL all these Burmese activists, that’s the absolutely right thing the Singapore government SHOULD DO!!

Such vitriol.

excerpt from the article:

“evidently Singapore was a misstop as the Burmese emotional side does not match the PAP’s extravagant vision.”

To comment 17 and 18
I hate to dissappoint you, the writer does not come from SE… :( and as usual you are turning a blind eye to the fact that Singapore supports the banking dirty business for the generals, this makes you as corrupt as your leaders.

It is a Singaporean exploitation, the sh!t belongs there and it will remain there… take a ride on your perfect Flyer and think about it while upthere…

i am goin to tell you peeps about the REALIVES burmese workin here in singapore
i mingled with them in their various jobs capatcities…
the first burmese migrate worker was a maid
a beautiful darktann maid
@ first i thought she was from indonesia
but when she spoke
her voice was enchantin
you know what?
she bothered to learn hokkien/mandarin
i asked her
what would she do
when her maid contract finish
she simply say
i open a small provision shop
i run it
i even teased her
if i come over to burma
can i stayed by your side?
she laughed and said
yes please
on a permanant basis
the next 1 i met was an engineer bloke
onced again nice soft spoken bloke
unliked the china chinese loudtone or the indians snobbish attitute…
the many burmese i further encountered
teach me 1 thinggie
they are ALL POLITED soft spoken by nature
never have i met ONE with a hot temper no matter what i/you throw in their face
and mind you
they too were educated the british way just liked our forefathers
with the only exceptions was they been run by tyrants military leader
ever since independant
do you all know that
the FIRST military leader was a GREAT friend/cambridge mate of our mental1?
now you know why
this two arekaulioa
so ar that both will scarified each other peasants for their selfish cause
and how many of you know
the top hotels in myammer is owned/run by singapore inc group
guess which group?
don’t needs to poll the audiences…

[i]17) GoAway on December 28th, 2008 9.27 am I have to disagree on the article…Singapore did the right thing to ask these people with an ulterior motive here to leave.
. As a Singaporean, I definitely do not want to become a sucker for these burmese!!

Be rational and stop being naive…we have no obligations at all to support these burmese, or you guys are simply ignoring such facts because of your prejudice.

Go home to your India and get your own government to support these Burmese. WHAT A BUNCH OF HYPOCRITES!![/i]

i AGREED with your postin
100% yes
ONE HUNDRED percents
unfortunately
the finger you pointed @ is none other than
YOURSELF!!!
did you know that
during the myamer recent demostration
many europeans housewives gathered in our singapore street
with candles performin an oderly protest
why did this angmor housewives protest?
nothin better to do
or is it
desparate housewives series came to a halt?
if this were in europe
the people of europe would have camped overnight @ the concerned authority for makin this inhumane decision
so a s shole
go and die in a well/manhole
see which hands would lift you up

#17 & #18 – wah lau eh. so much spite & narrow-mindedness. To put it another perspective, how can Singapore make a stand on any international platform if they turn a blind eye, or worse be seen to support the utterly corrupt Burmese regime by repatriating politically conscience Burmese objectioners?
To think that because of Burma( with regards especially to the regime’s crackdown during the saffron revolution), the Sgp gahmen and some other SEA nations were desperately doing damage control just so ASEAN has some kind of credibility, should give pause to your senseless outburst.

LetsaskPAPgahmen,

I agree with you. Psychologicaly speaking, sometimes people who have been denied freedom will also want to deprive others of freedom, but of course they cannot be expected to be seen as being so small minded, so they always fall back on some sort of misguided ‘patriotism’. But instead of being angry, we should feel sorry for them. :)

Feeling sorry for them is not the only thing one can do. Many people feel sorry for them and there are some who feels angry about it. Then they will sigh and say, “What to do, this government is like that.”. How about a change, do something in your own means? Write to MOM, protest, raise awareness etc… do whatever you can do and think of to help, whatever actions that you are comfortable with… that is if you honestly care.

urm Rachel,

I wasn’t referring to the FWs. I was referring to the small-minded S’poreans who think it’s right to send these Burmese back without giving a good enough reason.

21) moshedyan on December 28th, 2008 11.26 am
never have i met ONE with a hot temper no matter what i/you throw in their face
and mind you they too were educated the british way just liked our forefathers
with the only exceptions was they been run by tyrants military leader
ever since independant.

Yes moshedyan, I do agree with you. Most of them are soft spoken type and they are usually kind of polite. I have almost a dozen of them working in my company and I don’t see any kind of problem in them, infact, they are much easier people to work with than those from china and india. If the world starts condemning these people just because they are being victims of their own communist regime garment, then what would singaporeans be like to the rest of the countries? I came across negative comments being made on singaporeans that we are those kia su, kia see, greedy, small minded and yet still arrogant people, why? I asked . . . . why are we being classified as such? what are the cause of us singaporeans being victims of such accusation by people outside our country? THINK!

the foreigners are obviously trying to stir shit here, singaporeans should not be gullible to not read in between the lines of these foreign propaganda and be influenced to take the wrong side. there is only one side, our side.

singapore does not owes these foreigners a living, they came on our strict terms, did something they are not supposed to do. what good reason must the host give to the visitor? should the host report to the visitor or seek his permission when declining his visa? which country actually do that?

too bad that they got to go. at least a few more job vacancies now open for the local job seekers. that is good news.

Zefly, I read through the comments too quickly this morning! Realised it after I reread but guess my comment also had alot to do with thoughts that developed from my conversations with people after I talked to them about this issue when I got to hear about it before this press release. A couple of people were not happy, expressed ’shock’ and some were disgusted but they concluded the conversation with “What can I do, I am just a nobody.” kind of statement.

No doubt there are many out there who simply don’t care at all and think that the Burmese activists shouldn’t demonstrate in Singapore. Sometimes I don’t know how to react to these people… hahaa… no point feeling angry with or sorry for them because it is a waste of time. Let’s just try our best to ignore them. (Okay lah even having said this, I guess I am human too. These ignorant fellowmen of mine do make me feel a rush of negative emotions at times.)

Rachel, Tiredsingaporean,

yeah… I agree with yous. I dunno about you, but I have been taught since young to care for the less unfortunate people around us… which also extends to people who are not ‘like us’ ie FWs etc. But looking around, many times I see people who only care for their own backside. Yes, the FW is an issue we have to deal with… but for god’s sake, stop blaming them for our social ills. If a country offers you a job that pays you in a day more than what you make in two weeks, you would also fly there straight away. It seems that we have our own versions of Red Necks in our very backyards.

Looks like there are many self-righteous kay-pohs here who naively think they can save the world…

Typical double-standard hypocrites who only know how to criticize others, but they themselves are as much narrow-minded and idiotic as those whom they are criticizing.

If UN, USA and EU can’t even do anything to Myammar’s military junta, who do you think you are that the military junta should listen to?

We welcome any Burmese here who respect and observe our country’s law, not those who come here with the clear intention to break it , expect Singapore to support their cause, but cry-baby and try to victimize Singapore and her government for being unsensitive and unwilling to help.

Every country have their own problems…let’s solve our first!

MOM did the absolutely right thing to sent these Burmese home. We do not need them since they are not contributing but only creating problems for us.!!!

shame on you, singapore immigration authorities, whoever you are, be it the minister or the perm sec. dun worry, justice will reign at the end and you will be called to account for your actions in your next life! your turn will come.
it is alright not to support protests BUT it is another to evict them and get them to leave singapore! it is not that they are terrorists like the tamil eelam or taliban. they are individuals who collectively wish to support the cause of democracy in their homeland. if we cannot allow them even that little, what can we do? we even allow dictators like mugabe to receive medical attention here when we know the atrocities he has carried out n his country!
though i am taught to be forgiving and not wish for nasty things to happen. i really really hope that something really nasty happens to the person who gave this order, while he still breathes!

31) KayPohSingaporeans

Yes, and while we’re at it, might as well set up our own GItmo also!

And let’s just send back every single FW who are not contributing, but create problem for us, like them 179 stranded workers, only know how to take up newspaper space and sponge off good-hearted singaporeans.

sheez. When you lived in a country as repressive as Burma, and you go to other countries which are as ignorant as you about how bad it is in Burma, I think any Burmese with a heart to do something for his fellows back home would want to raise awareness about the problems back home.

Before you complain how trouble-making these burmese are, think about how we have in many ways directly or indirectly propped up the dictatorship in Burma. You think all the money burma makes from doing business with S’pore goes to the locals? They go to the junta, who also buy weapons manufactured here to shoot at their own people. Oh but then hor, you dun care right? Aung Sai who ah? Can eat or not? Can make money for you or not? Can solve your problem or not?

You dun even realize how if a gahmen can treat other citizens this way, they can also do the same to their own people one day. Next time maybe when you kau bay, they exile you to pulau seletar. Or maybe when you are old and no longer contributing to the economy, then you run out of money because they lock up your CPF, then you take to the streets in protest, then they lock you up, then we see who’s the idiot.

Dun help nevermind, but stand one side jeering… typical self-centred pissant.

Zefly, you so noble, go the Burma and protest there lah…why hide here and talk cock like sing song??? Typical NATO – No Action. Talk Only!! So, what have your noble self done for the Burmese so far??

By the way, you can also become citizen of another country if you so think that Singapore is as repressive as Burma…you always have a choice you know?? Don’t hold a Singapore passport and yet crticize until the cow comes home. What a typical hypocrite and pea-brain!!!

But maybe, you’re no Singaporean at all, just another of those ungrateful FW here enjoying the pay and life, but in return, only know how to let go stinking farts here and then to pollute Singapore!!

UN, USA and EU can’t do anything about the junta because the Singaporean government refuses to stop supporting it. Mr. Moe has been here for more than 10 years, working as an engineer. How has he not contributed? In the peaceful protests organised by the Burmese activists, did anyone get hurt due to the actions of the activists? NO. Instead the Singaporean police chose to push and shove in some instances so who creates the problems for who?

I just cannot understand how we can invite foreign talents to work here for the well being of Singapore and then when they start speaking out, we send them back home. Is this how the game is being played? Is this how we as Singaporeans want to see the game being played? Well then if so, it is honestly disgusting.

Problems exist in every country, no doubt about that. However the problem that lies with ours is the fact that people here choose to play ‘pass the parcel’, from the man on the street right up to the men in the ivory towers. There is no sense of community and most people do not care to speak out or to try to seek for change in the things they are not happy with. Elections after elections, people vote for the same political party and they go back into the same cycle of complaining about this and that but never move their fearful arses from the comfortable seats. We are all human beings and are entitled to have a brain that generates opinions, whether we are local Singaporeans or foreign workers. We should never be terrorised to the point of not even daring to generate and share opinions, or express them whether in private or public. We can surely solve that if we take ex ISD officers off the editorial board of SPH, put the facts back into our history textbooks, stop instilling fear of expressing dissatisfaction into the hearts of our young… the list goes on and on.

Lastly (for now), why should anyone observe and respect draconian laws put in place to pacify public criticisms and opinions by force? Why can’t citizens express their opinions to the government publicly in order to ask for change? Why do we as Singaporeans have to accept the fact that some of our basic rights have been robbed of us the moment we bust out from our mothers’ wombs and registered as Singaporeans?

Oh and please, the Singaporean government is no victim of anyone else but their own power hungry and materially greedy selves.

[i]tooKaypoh on December 28th, 2008 1.26 pm the foreigners are obviously trying to stir shit here, singaporeans should not be gullible to not read in between the lines of these foreign propaganda and be influenced to take the wrong side. there is only one side, our side.

too bad that they got to go. at least a few more job vacancies now open for the local job seekers. that is good news.[/i]
if we are talkin about filipinos or bangala including china
its not a problemo sendin them back UNEMPLOYED
you all are intelligent enough
to know that we or our government is sendin this people back to HELL!
when the chinese students were demostartin against the tanks in tienannmien square, many of these has to fleece to a 3rd country
till today
they were granted political asylum on HUMANTARIAN ground
do you see
tanglianhong/franciseow/ and that former singapore nus tanwahpiow being deported out of this countries?
why not?
australia don’t have qualified divorced lawyers mey?
america don’t have any leftover ex-public prosecuter mey?
and britain have not enough radical nus undergrads mey?

now your last paragraph is what i was EXPECTIN /target @
its my 3rd vision….
singapore have to show some good reasons to start kicking out foreign talents that is takin our jobs away in time of depression
what better way to show that our present government is doing somethin finally
they hit 2 birds with the same stone
1 is to appease people liked you who blamed foreign talents
(yours trulys also hates foreign talentsow i know
our mental1
do NOT want foreigners to start smart political ideas here
it is dangerous
which is why in britain racist immigrants riots erupt
includin france and germany….
but onced again
1 must assess the situations before one kickout someone…
you are afterall a fellow human being
are you not?
have you ever been facin a deportation order on you?
and when it was finally a closed case
much dued to another foreig/local people who SUPPORT
you in your justly caused for no PAYMENT @ all
not even a stamp fees or photcopy charges
being billed on me
they did their jobs
AFTER office hours
i won my immigration matters
right to the top
how many trueful singaporean would do that favour for you?
on their own hours
they don’t have a dog to walk mey?
THINK again
before you BLARE
imagined if you migrate to australia or whatever
some new australian antiMP decided that its time for you to go?
they too are spoilin my retirement partime adhoc jobs as well)
you kn

opps
lagged input error
should be as follows:

#1 is to appease people liked you who blamed foreign talents
(yours trulys also hates foreign talentsow i know they too are spoilin my retirement partime adhoc jobs as well)

noKaypohsingaporean,

Go and read up on intra-ASEAN relations and then you will understand the links that we as an ASEAN state have with Burma. And with that in mind, you will understand why post-Nargis, the trickle of aid that went through to the affected delta regions was due to the efforts of us and our neighbouring states.

Suffice to say, your chest-beating and using of the West being ineffective, is an excuse that rings hollow. The junta will not listen to the West, because there is little the West can do. However, the junta is more reliant on ASEAN, and the constituent states, namely us and Thailand, for foreign investment.

Hence, this is the responsibility that we and the Thais have to shoulder, whether we like it or not. The strategic dimension is not a buffet counter, and one action always has at least two, three consequential outcomes downstream.

There’s no black and white, so think about it. I’d be less happy to jump for joy if I were you about these deportations, especially if one has looked downstream in the larger strategic picture.

erm, ST journos(if u guys are lurking around here) – don’t you think this is a hot potato topic? We citizens are having some kind of a ‘discourse’ over foreign (Burmese) talent, human rights, ‘legalism’(whatever that means lah) & the meanings of ‘Singaporean-ness’:patriotism, cosmopolitanism or whatever…

34) KaypohSingaporean,

Mr Kaypoh, can I call you Redneck instead? Because I think the name suits you better as I believe you are far from being kaypoh, because kaypohs poke their noses in other people’s businesses, but you typically would choose to stay out of it, except when it comes to letting off negative energy. Maybe you need a hug.

Ok Mr Redneck, seriously I find your argument lacking completely in logic. Please do not associate your inaction in doing anything with regards to things you aren’t happy about with other people. For all you know, we have done far more in voicing out our concerns and participation in other events than you will ever do. But we are not here to compare credentials, because my religion teaches me not to boast.

Mr Redneck, I find your thinking of ‘if you feel so noble go to Burma and protest lah!’ reflecting of a very childish mentality. I have long ceased to resort to this line of retort since I was pri six. You forget, in your frog-in-well mentality, that even voicing out something, is doing something.

“By the way, you can also become citizen of another country if you so think that Singapore is as repressive as Burma…you always have a choice you know?? Don’t hold a Singapore passport and yet crticize until the cow comes home. What a typical hypocrite and pea-brain!!!”

Again, another seriously stupid argument. Unlike you, who equates doing nothing, not questioning, just obeying, with patriotism (but i suspect even when you think you are patriotic, you are also too lazy to hang the singapore flag during national day), some of us actually criticise and question because we love our country and want it to be better than what it is now. And unless you know me well enough, do not assume that I only sit and write complaints here.

“But maybe, you’re no Singaporean at all, just another of those ungrateful FW here enjoying the pay and life, but in return, only know how to let go stinking farts here and then to pollute Singapore!!”

Ah yes, we have another typical Redneck behavior. Xenophobia. Racism. Can I ask you a question. Did you hit your maid last night? Did you check out the China girls in Geylang the night before? Would you like to be a construction worker earning $15 a day? Or a cleaner? I mean, hey, if all these stinking stupid ungrateful FWs were to go home, then there will be enough jobs for all of us right? Oh wait. What did I hear? Oh, these jobs pay too low? Oh I see… so these FWs should be grateful we pay them pittance. I mean, after all they are inferior and they should be grateful for the breadcrumbs we give them.

Wow Mr Redneck! I really love your Redneck thinking! But could you lighten up a bit. You sound so angry. Do you need a hug? I’m sure many people here would love to hug you too. I go first. Nah hugs. Now dun be so angry ok?

(ps – thanks for calling me noble. Nobody have every called me that in my entire life. Usually they call me ‘naive’. Maybe I should be as world-wise as you are, Mr Redneck)

To #17 GoAway

Hey there, the person behind Singapore Indian Voice is a local activist, a Singaporean. By the way there is nothing wrong with anyone, be it local or foreign, to come by and call for action for a fellow human being… I personally find your comment rather rude but of course, you are entitled to go on with your rant. Just makes me feel so sad that human beings are not valued in terms of individuality, in the view of humanity but in terms of nationality by some. Aren’t we all human beings and shouldn’t we help each other in the name of that?

Come one day, when you come across a similar comment about Singaporeans, may you remember yours before even getting a wee bit mad. Or maybe you won’t feel anything and that is probably because you don’t care about anything but yourself.

Hi TOC/Seelan Palay,

I was about to write to the MSM’s forum page about the non-renewal of these Burmese patriots until I remember vaguely that there was an apparent change of heart by the Singapore authorities on this.

A search on TOC’s website here: http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/12/burmese-in-s%E2%80%99pore-commemorate-un%E2%80%99s-universal-declaration/

it was clearly stated that “The government has since relented and approved the visas” for 3 of the 6”. ( I know someone out there will now say that there are still 3 patriots who have been deported- but I will not comment until the facts are clearer)

Also Palay’s article’s Burmese names are different from the names commonly cited elsewhere.

This only highlights the points that if we want to be taken seriously and to be a credible alternative voice to Singapore’s MSM, we should take more care in ensuring accuracy.

If I had written in based on Palay’s article, I would have looked rather foolish.

We should continue to be concerned about Singapore’s human rights records and about how best we should help Singapore move forward. Palay has done much to push the boundaries but let’s have less shoddy and under-researched postings.
Dr.Huang
PS posted on TOC & Palay’s blog

My goodness, just reading this thread makes me realized there are so many self-righteous individuals here who think they are the only people who know about human rights.

If you believe in your cause, realize it with your actions and use it as an example to motivate others to do the same…just like what Tan Kin Lian did, and had gained the due respect of many.

If not, stop trying to criticize and lecture others just because they don’t share the same views as you have! Different people have different needs, priorities and conviction at different time, different occasion and different place!

Singapore is rule by law and order, it had its merits and definitely also its shortcomings, but as a person who had traveled extensively throughout the region, it is still one of the better place where human rights are concerned. At least, we have TOC here for us to speak our mind and not having any fears of being victimized, terrorized or sent to jail by the government (if the government wants to, they can do it simply by tracking your ISP address right to your doorstep). This is a fact!

As for the Burmese activists, they can make their voice known and I believe many Singaporeans are sympathetic to their cause, but they should not expect the government or Singaporeans to support their cause, as we have our own priorities which are no less important. They are here as guest, and they should respect the fact that Singapore have the rights to let them stay or not.

[i]At least, we have TOC here for us to speak our mind and not having any fears of being victimized, terrorized or sent to jail by the government (if the government wants to, they can do it simply by tracking your ISP address right to your doorstep). This is a fact!
[/i]
its a fact what
do you receite your DEMOCRATIC oath?
for what
to learn the sound of abc?
why are you so AFRAID?
with people liked YOU
you should be living in alaska
amon the igloos
where there is no tall buildin to collapse on you
where there is not mrt to bang on your silly nunskull
with people liked YOU
you shouldn’t even be leavin singapore soil @ all cost
because of kiasee singaporean liked YOU
you will handover your wallets
when some stranger point a pair of chopsticks on your throat…

43) Chessy on December 28th, 2008 10.40 pm

“My goodness, just reading this thread makes me realized there are so many self-righteous individuals here who think they are the only people who know about human rights.”

You do realize it is actually equally annoying whenever someone talks about human rights or social justice and they get put down by the negative comments of people calling them self-righteous? I dunno about it, but it bugs my conscience that my country is so closely associated with a dictatorial regime.

“If you believe in your cause, realize it with your actions and use it as an example to motivate others to do the same…just like what Tan Kin Lian did, and had gained the due respect of many.”

Sometimes people do things, diam diam no make noise one. But I believe that speaking up is the very first step to action. There really isn’t anything wrong with expressing indignation.

“If not, stop trying to criticize and lecture others just because they don’t share the same views as you have! Different people have different needs, priorities and conviction at different time, different occasion and different place!”

And yup. So do we. This is called a discourse, and right to disagree. Ironically don’t you find yourself doing the same? Should we thus call you self-righteous also?

“Singapore is rule by law and order, it had its merits and definitely also its shortcomings, but as a person who had traveled extensively throughout the region, it is still one of the better place where human rights are concerned. At least, we have TOC here for us to speak our mind and not having any fears of being victimized, terrorized or sent to jail by the government (if the government wants to, they can do it simply by tracking your ISP address right to your doorstep). This is a fact!”

Yes, and maybe you should also practice what you preach and not hide behind a nick. You know here’s the funny thing. Nobody is saying that we are living in a super repressive regime in Burma. Last time someone also came and told us we should be counting our blessings because they have travelled around and saw that Singapore is much better than other places. Yes, I am glad to be born in SG and not in Burma, but that doesn’t mean we should be resting on our laurels. A country’s progress is not only marked by it’s economic achievement alone, but by the impartiality of its law, and a certain ‘moral’ aspect of it. Why do you think so many Americans were ashamed of USA during the Bush years?

I mean, seriously. I’m sure you have also earned enough, compared to many people in other ASEAN countries. Did that stop you from wanting more?

“As for the Burmese activists, they can make their voice known and I believe many Singaporeans are sympathetic to their cause, but they should not expect the government or Singaporeans to support their cause, as we have our own priorities which are no less important. They are here as guest, and they should respect the fact that Singapore have the rights to let them stay or not.”

Actually this one is quite complicated, I would agree. But you also have to understand why they are doing the things they do, and why their VISA is not being renewed. All these had to do with the close links of SG and Burma. The fact is that some of them had been here for years, and unless they are really causing trouble, I don’t see what’s wrong with them appealing to SG Govt to stop supporting the military regime. I mean, if one day SG is also ruled by a regime like that, and you are working overseas, and after years of hearing all the horror stories that took place in SG, and hearing about many people you knew being subjected to brutality, what would you have done?

Actually Chessy, the beef here is not really about human rights etc. You can don’t care about these things am we can still be friends. I mean, figuratively speaking. But when a person posts something really insensitive without taking into consideration why the Burmese did what they did, as if they had nothing better to do, or not have any fears of deportation at all, and you realize they are speaking from xenophobia and malice, you just have to speak up.

You may disagree with me and call me self-righteous, but I have come to the point where these kinds of views had to be challenged if change is to happen. Some people do it at Speaker’s Corner. Some people do it by explaining to people why their views could be wrong. I mean, respecting a point of view doesn’t mean throwing value judgement of right and wrong out of the window.

Hi Dr Huang, the article was not written by me. You will read my own report in a few hours.

Chessy,

Before I forget… hugs. I am starting a Hugs Revolution. It means that even after someone comes along and disagree with you, you still hug them back. Eventually, I hope we can bring change to the world by hugging.

It is my solemn hope that one day all the dictators in the world will be hugged into submission and their hearts opened and filled with love and the need to hug others.

Please spread the hugs, Chessy, dun just keep them to yourself.

The way some people portrayed Singapore here is really inapprehensible, I mean they can just ignore all the better things and improvement that Singapore had built and evolved over the years (especially on human rights issues), but choose to nitpick and highlight a particular bad stuff just to be an eccentric!

There’s no place in this world that we can fnd a perfect country who embraces and practices full and perfect human rights. NONE!

Just because Singapore did not renewed the immigration passes of these Burmese does not make Singapore government a repressive regime.

Just because Singapore government do not condone these individual Burmese for their law-breaking activities here does not equal to them supporting Myanmar’s military junta and undemocratic rule.

Just because Singaporeans failed to see the impact and sufferings of the Burmese people and did not support them does not make Singaporeans heartless and kiasee!

Please, stop all these narrow-minded nitpicking and generalisation!

Like everyone here I may not agree with our govt on some of the local policies. But when it comes to issues of foreign affairs, i wear the singapore flag in my heart stoutly. Foreigners are, afterall foreign where we are concerned, why any patriotric singaporean should give two hoots about this issue and goes as far as to criticise OUR own govt is beyond me. If you dislike singapore so much, perhaps you should reconsider staying on. Becos one’s heart must be in the right place.

Immigration and foreign affairs are complex issues in any country. If a country is in a crisis or goes to war with another country, the duty of a responsible citizen is to obey. When one hesitates, starts singing praises about the opposing side, question the technicalities and decision making processes or shout back at his own side, then something is obviously not right.

Sometimes, long-term vision benefits our nation more than short-term vision.

49) ThisPlace on December 29th, 2008 9.57 am

“Like everyone here I may not agree with our govt on some of the local policies. But when it comes to issues of foreign affairs, i wear the singapore flag in my heart stoutly. Foreigners are, afterall foreign where we are concerned, why any patriotric singaporean should give two hoots about this issue and goes as far as to criticise OUR own govt is beyond me. ”

ThisPlace, I think you may have to widen your concept of patriotism. Patriotism doesn’t mean just siding with our country and support it in ANY foreign policy. And I think you are threading on dangerous grounds when you implicitly imply people who question SG’s stance in foreign affairs as being unpatriotic. Don’t forget that many of us here have served our NS and if there comes a point where we will have to take up arms to defend our homes, we would.

Xenophobia can be easily wrapped in the national flag and paraded around as patriotism. Think Pauline Henson.

Secondly, if you take the analogy of being a child in a family. Yes, you may be very protective of your family, but what happens when your dad does things that most other families disapprove of? Do you blindly defend him? Or do you tell him what he did made the whole family lose face? Is blind loyalty and devotion really love?

“If you dislike singapore so much, perhaps you should reconsider staying on. Becos one’s heart must be in the right place.”

The opposite of love is not hate. It is apathy. It is the people who don’t speak up, who don’t bother to think and just follow lor… that are the ones whose hearts are not in the right place. But I will not tell them to f-off either because they have every right to stay in this country as I do. Notice while I believe that it is people like you who hinder the growth and progress of our nation, i do not tell you to go somewhere? Because I find arguments like that rather mean-spirited and does not respect the other person’s rights to hold another opinion. You may wanna consider exercising a universal form of respect for everyone on Earth, and not just Singaporeans, and then maybe you will realize why there are some people who actually took issues with the repartration of the Burmese.

Secondly, nearly 50% of Americans disagreed with the direction Bush was taking USA. Now if every one of them acted on your advice, where do you think they should go? And would we now have an Obama if they had not chosen and stayed on?

Please see that there is a difference between loving the country, and disagreeing with the direction its leaders are taking the country. The Catholics in general disagreed with the idea of IRs. But I didn’t see you telling them to all migrate to the Vactican.

“Immigration and foreign affairs are complex issues in any country. If a country is in a crisis or goes to war with another country, the duty of a responsible citizen is to obey. When one hesitates, starts singing praises about the opposing side, question the technicalities and decision making processes or shout back at his own side, then something is obviously not right.”

I think you haven’t really learnt the lessons from the Iraq War. You would probably think that those Americans who opposed to the invasion are unpatriotic. In the first place, why are you so concerned with patriotism? Do you get brownie points or special upgrading to your flat when you do that? Do you see there that bigger things than just our little arbituary national boundaries? There is a very important article about us all sharing the same common destiny beyond our racial and national identities. I urge you to go read it. It’s not a very long article. It is called ‘We Are The World’. It is written by a very reknowned humanitarian called Michael Jackson.

Blind obedience is not patriotism. Unquestioning devotion and flag waving is not patriotism. Using your brains, using your conscience, doing the things that need to be done no matter how unpopular, is.

Shalom.

Hugs.

Foreigners are, afterall foreign where we are concerned, why any patriotric singaporean should give two hoots about this issue and goes as far as to criticise OUR own govt is beyond me.

Our government’s foreign policies reflect on Singapore’s values. If we should hold the view that “Foreigners are, afterall foreign where we are concerned”, then why is our government sending troops to Iraq, donating to other countries, giving scholarship to foreign students?

When criticising OUR own government on such issues, we are asking whether it is acting in just, fair and rational manner, we are concerned where is our government’s moral compass is pointing, we are concerned our international reputation.

who is Dr Huang ?

Thank you both for your concerns and counsels. My pitch on the Burmese episode was short and comprehensive, you are either with the country or not. There is no need to dissect them any more than necessary. Have a good day.

55) ThisPlace :”you are either with the country or not.”

George W Bush – “You are either with us, or against us”

Benito Mussolini – “O con noi o contro di noi”–You’re either with us or against us.

Anakin Skywalker “If you’re not with me, you’re my enemy.”

Obi Wan Kenobi “Only a Sith deals with absolutes”

Me – “Hugs”

Hi,

“You are either for us or against us” ( and all the other variations of this) are false dichotomies.

There are more choices than these.

I can love Singapore ( I do) but yet disagree with some aspects of the govt’s policies.

Only in a dire national emergency ( eg state of war), must everyone put all differences aside and think as one.

In Singapore, it is considered a crime to support democracy. Everything else is allowed if it goes against human morale?

Those who are with the country judge the government of the day and agree or disagree with its deed with their eyes open for the sake of the country.

I don’t believe these Burmese nationals are stirring up problems here. I have friends from Burma (the new Myanmar just sounds so fake) who studied and proceed to work here and their wholly good and really stand up for the Singaporean ideals and way of life. They believed in our govt as fair and providing them with a great chance to overcome their hardships in Burma.

Our govt allowed so many foreign nationals to come to Singapore to help our workforce and build our economy. Lets face it, we need their help.. With that, comes along their emotional baggage and thinking since its so nice to work and live here, maybe the govt here can help them.

To be sent back would be suicide as anti-govt patriots could be locked up or mysteriously disappear as many of them have.

Our govt have to juggle between pleasing the Burmese nationals here and the junta back there and also Sporean.

[i]If a country is in a crisis or goes to war with another country, the duty of a responsible citizen is to obey. When one hesitates, starts singing praises about the opposing side, question the technicalities and decision making processes or shout back at his own side, then something is obviously not right.[/i]

yeap this one i also agreed with you 100%
make it 101%
durin the SAR crisis
where were you?
when in the bus somebody coughed?
where were you
when somebody in your block cough?
where were you
when somebody in the footcourt s coughed
i was around in every cornors i mentioned
including in an enclose room when my client 2 sons coughed liked s h i t
when their mom have the cheek to ask me
did i coughed before i go over to her house
for adhoc job
now do you know
why am i askin you this silly questions above?
was the sar crisis an emergency
how many of our peasants die?
includin the doctors/nurses who stayed behind?

now the MAIN story is
the most important story
remember this
remember it WELL
did you even bothered to ask
or check
WHERE WAS THE OLE GREAT MENTAL1
his wife
AND HIS SON OUR PRINCE
the prime minister?
they weren’t even in SINGAPORE!!!
now if a war is created/started
WHO ELSE HERE CAN DECLARE an act of war?
you still wants to bear
ARMS
and DIE for YOUR country?
i wouldn’t

[i]If a country is in a crisis or goes to war with another country, the duty of a responsible citizen is to obey. When one hesitates, starts singing praises about the opposing side, question the technicalities and decision making processes or shout back at his own side, then something is obviously not right.[/i]

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r19/theonlinecitizen/Pictures%20Posted%20on%20TOC/Speakers%20Corner/dbs580292.jpg

ole yes
why don’t your also asked whether she would volunteer to be a nurse in the same situation as well
afterall
our mental1 did says she bought with her eyes closed
if she cloased an eye
why can’t i closed my eyes in time of invasion

54) ThisPlace,

The world is not black and white, and our governance is always pragmatic, hence in shades of grey.

It does not bode well if people are not allowed to express legitimate concerns about their home nation. Secondly, it makes us look bad as though we’re fearful of the Burmese junta.

However, it is clear that there will be many diverse viewpoints on this issue, and hey, there’s no room for Bushisms.

Loyola,

ThisPlace has already left this place liao, and won’t be coming back anytime. Truth hurts, see.

No i have not…just got better things to do.

Dang.

I mean.. hugs

But on a serious note. I just read over at SDP website another two are not having their permits renewed despite their employers putting a good word. One says he might have to spend time in prison if he goes back.

Are there anyway any other countries can take them in… as long as they don’t get past Burma customs?

Seelan? Any opinions? What can we do to help?