Agreed. What I also do not understand is why foregin workers are allowed to work in coffee shops, cleaning jobs etc..these are what I term as LOCALISED jobs. In other words, the businesses will not ‘run’ to other countries even if it cost a bomb to hire the locals. Precisely many of such LOCALISED jobs have gone to the cheaper foreign workers are wages for such jobs suppressed. And you read of the aunty collecting and washing plates at the coffeeshop for $400-600 per month.

IF ANY europe companies adopt exactly THE SAME Pro Business policies,
I would like the People to tell me what would the europeans have to say.

I believe that should be the main focus.

SOLUTION required. Lets stop re-iterating our Constraints. Re-iterating the problem will not solve the Problem.

Difficult? That is why high pay exist – to solve difficult problems not many can solve. Now, Deliver.

Let’s take a look at the benefits, privileges and obligations a Singapore citizen compared with a permanent resident.

Benefits, Privileges & Obligations of Naturalisation

Courtesy of Immigration & Checkpoints Authority ( Ministry of Home Affairs)

One businessman actually lamented recently in a public forum that I was in that foreign workers from China are willing to work for $2/hour, but that he could not find a Singaporean to work for that wages.

As I see it, the govt has a few points:

Not enough S’poreans to fill jobs: So, the solution is to bring in foreign workers/talents.

Grow the economy, share the fruits: Grow the economy as much as we can, including bringing in casinos and F1s.

Once the economy grows, everyone will have jobs.

Those who are earning less or have their wages suppressed, can’t be helped. Govt will provide workfare, handouts from time to time.

In gist, this is what the govt is doing. But of course, this does not and will not satisfy a populace which are working harder and longer for less and less. In the end, we have hundreds of thousands of S’poreans in arrears for everything from HDB mortgages, S$C charges, utilities. And more S’poreans are finding it hard to make ends meet – even for used textbooks, NTUC expects a record 12,000 recipients this year.

Where did the Golden Period go to?

This is why the Govt has had to give out rebates from time to time.

It is extremely sad that for a people who works so hard, the govt is turning a blind eye and a deaf ear to the real problems on the grounds.

You’re right, Gerald. Those who are making policies from their ivory towers have no inkling of what the ground is like.

And we haven’t even scrutinised the so-called “re-training” during bad times, as the NTUC has been urging people to do.

I really don’t know what the hell they are doing.

Thanks Gerald for the well written article and it make me wept.

YA I have felt that the govt has lost touch with the ground since GCT time as PM. LSL in the last 2 years have unwound alot what his father PM has done for the past 30 years. The policies are mostly pro-employer and pro-FT. Now the FT becomes bluecollared workers jostling for employment with our low end workers.

He has always said that if we don’t bring in FTs or any foreigners, companies will pull out and many Singaporeans will lose their jobs. However, there is no statistics to back that up and seeing the huge machinery the govt has, this is surprising.

The cabinet members are all scholars, except for one or two who are not, and do not feel how the general population feels. None has live in any HDB flat for a prolonged period nor do they take the MRT to work. They could even buy one house a year with their salaries.

This FT thing could prove to be the downfall of the ruling party as it cuts through the social fabric of our population. It affects morale, confidence and stability of all our citizens.

In Australia, the same FT problem affects the country as 20% of the population make up of foreigners. Nevetheless, they have a stringent employment act in place to protect the jobs of their citizens. For example, a company can only employ a foreigner if he has advertised for six months and could not find any suitable candidates from the general Aussie population.

Thanks again Gerald for the article and I hope the whole country gets to read this article.

Gilbert,

That reminds me of what our ministers have said in the past – that Singaporeans command a “premium” when it comes to wages because of our “educated people” and “highly-trained” people and things like our bi-lingual policy.

Which brings up the question: What has happened to this ‘premium” that we are suppose to command in terms of wages?

Obviously, if we fear that companies will uproot and move elsewhere, then there is something wrong. For, as we’ve been told, other countries’ people are not as educated and highly-trained as Singaporeans. So, why would companies want to move there? Also, weren’t we told that S’pore would provide “high-end” services because of our educated and highly-trained populace?

It is obvious that our employment and labour policies are going nowhere and the govt is just throwing smokescreen and grasping at straws.

The first thing they should take a re-look at is their foreign worker/talent policy.

But sadly, even till now, they have refused to and continue to blindly defend it at every opportunity.

It’s the same for all kinds of mishaps and policies which have gone wrong – from Mas Selamat to town councils’ investments. From HDB flats’ pricing to CPF policies.

It really makes me very sad when I see our ah sohs and ah peks having to compete with foreign workers for jobs at the coffeeshops.

When I was younger, my parents worked in a school canteen selling ‘kuehs’ to feed the 12 of us children. That was a time when such low-end jobs/opportunities are reserved for poor, or uneducated families.

Now, however, even such canteens are tendered out – and we know who gets them.

The earlier generation of leaders had heart and were in touch with the ground.

The current generation of leaders, however, have dollar signs in their eyes 24/7 which are blinding them.

Consider this: The PM gets about $330,000 per month.

Our elderly folks on public assistance gets $330 per month.

A world of difference.

A GREAT AFFECTIVE DIVIDE.

The policy favors the employers. So you should try to be the boss. You can then hire and fire at your whims and fancy. Use Singaporeans only when you have no choice and do it only on contract basis. If it is legal, you may also consider hiring school kids like NUTC and make yourself look like a hero – you may call it long term training or the likes. This is the proven working formula for widening of income gap. So you should try to be the ones staying at the top. If you are successful, the ministers will be thankful to you too since you can then be used as their benchmark for more compensations. What we need in this country is just a small number of filthy rich people.

Eeee . . . ! can you take down that picture here, he looks damn yiek ! pls dun spoil my monday morning. . .

I wonder if this has to do with the coming Elections that papers have speculated that it will be brought forward. The argument for sacking foreign workers so that in times of recovery a company has the capacity to hire foreigners doesn’t make sense. If my company is in the red, I’d get rid of workers who are more expensive (ie the locals on which CPF needs to be paid compared to foreigners where no CPF is required) because I’d be more concerned with the possibility of folding up my company during the recession than to think about how my company will do during the recovery period which comes later.

The largest concern for the gahmen would be getting citizens’ votes than anything else at this point in time. And once election is over, it will be back to be a Singapore Inc. where $$ matters most.

his days are numbered…the irony…he will get away scot free for all his stupid ideas..at the expense of the people!

I do not understand.

With due respect, I have absolutely no idea what the minister is forwarding here.

This seems to be a contradiction in terms. As I was always under the impression, one reason why we need foreign intellectual capital is because this will revivify our competitiveness and in turn create more jobs and opportunities for both Singaporeans and residents.

Now water seems to be running uphill and he (the minister) is proposing to undo the very basis of how we should rightfully make the best use of opportunities to maximize our human resources return on investment.

I don’t understand. Is he by any chance saying our govt has pursued a flawed strategy for the last 20 years? Or maybe he is proposing to dismantle the free market economy towards the management of human resources and proposing to introduce a socialist model?

I don’t understand. I am very disturbed and thoroughly confused.

I personally believe, we should leave it to businesses to decide accordingly; after all they are the ones who are in the best position to determine what is relevant and irrelevant; important and dispensable; workable or simply an admirable sentiment; why even propose to tell businesses how to run their business.

That can only really carry weight if govt is like Warren buffet or George Soros and has a copper clad trek record in running businesses, but look at Temasek and GIC, what can we learn from there? What do they bring to the table?

Please sit down, bfr you fall down, leave it to the professionals.

SD (Internet Liaison officer of the brotherhood)

If he really wants to be gainfully useful to people and country, he would do well to direct his ministry to look into ways:

(a) To create MORE small enterprises, so that people who have lost their jobs can start their own businesses and in turn be employers instead of employees.

(b) Stop throwing good money into useless re-training programs, just accept it that some jobs are gone and no amount of retooling is going to augment the deficit.

(c) Stimulate the local economy by freeing up small enterprise loans, as the credit crunch has made it almost virtually impossible for people to even start businesses.

What is the point of insisting that the world MUST be flat, when we all know that we are already living in a round world?

He is not proposing a solution as it remains a very effective way to weaken our competitiveness even further.

Someone should really pick up the phone and talk sense into him.

I am confused. I seek to understand, but I dont understand.

SD

Great Articles, Gerald.

I don’t know all Singaporean still remember what our LKY say in the last GE, “Without Foreign Talent, there will not have a Singapore.” I think all this while PAP are taking Singaporean for granted. We are the one that build up Singapore and we are the one that will fight for Singapore, if Singapore go into war. I don’t think any FT will fight for Singapore if there a war, the first to run away are the FT and Foreign Investors.

Actually the thing that make our Singapore is expensive to invest in, are the RENTAL and unforeseen Tax, like the ERP etc. PAP only know how to blame it on our Citizen expectation of High Salaries, How about our PAP Ministers? Total about $40 million salaries per year to all 82 Ministers. They can request for high salaries, and not for Singapore Citizens. MM & PM said, they can make more money if they work in the private company. Can we employ FT to take over their post and pay the FT $10K per month?

If a company pay peanut to a FT, you thought they will work for the company 100%? They also work peanut to the company. But for Singaporean, most of us work more than 100% for the company, and we only take may be 2 to 3 peanuts more. How about our PAP Ministers, taking not peanuts but peanut with expansive chocolate coating each month. They can buy at least 1 to 3 Private Properties a year making full payment without taking any loan from CPF or Bank. That why they can see Singapore Citizen are suffering, and worrying about our tommorrow.

I dare our Ministers open out their assets and show us that they are suffering with us together?

I am not a fan of graphs. But if there 3 graphs from policy makers :
(a) one which can show how many people have been trained on the y axis, from e.g. beginning of 2008, month by month on the x axis (don’t think I am asking for too much). Records that stretched till 2007 or before, will be even better.
(b) the other on a frequency distribution of people who have already been trained, and no. of months they take to find a job. (include the total number of people trained to date here for comparison).
(c) the third on graph showing the various reasons for a job matched (there should be transparent system to reveal how the job was matched), but not taken.

it will give some indication if training is the only means of helping citizens. Policy makers, including those in the employability/ employment should avoid giving the perception that they are not sitting on the right chair, given the subjective inputs over the papers.
From there, we will have many avenues to probe on details which I am sure, both the public and policy makers would be interested in.

Frankly speaking, these two elite ministers are there for grandstand saying singaporeans will not be axe, sounds so motivating in their dialogue with the press.

So with this emotional speech, ministry of manpower annual report for singapore unemployment monthly rates will be at 2.2 pct for fiscal year 2008.
(Report is same for each year, there is never unemployment in singapore if you check the last 10 years report.)

Reuters will be first to publish report on singapore, a country which escape unemployment crisis in financial meltdown.

I could not agree more with the above comments made, in particular, the specific points raised by Raymond and Ravi. Since the town councils debacle is still fresh in our minds, I would like to share the little knowledge that I know about the workings of town councils.

During the high unemployment rate in the early 2000s, a statutory board, WDA (Workforce Development Authority) was set up to look into the unemployed. The town councils, having very good potentials to absorb a few thousand cleaners into their fold, was one of the areas targetted. Hitherto, all cleaners employed in town councils are Bangladeshis, many of whom are non-bonafides.

In an effort to encourage cleaning service providers in town councils to employ locals, the ministry, through WDA, introduced the 7:3 (locals vs foreigners) ratio. This means that every 7 locals employed, the service providers are allowed 3 foreigners. Henceforth, all service providers were mandated to open a separate CPF account for this purpose. This so called ’special account’ is necessary to prevent abuse by service providers, most of whom are also providing such services to other establishments, where the only foreigners allowed are malaysians This account is supposed to be audited as well.

I must say it was a very well thought out policy that appears very logical.
However, this policy was met with high resistance on the ground although a pledge was made by all parties concerned, the town councils, service providers and the WDA, to implement and ensure the success of this policy, it never really took off. This is because the town councils prefer Bangladeshis to our own local workers, a high percentage of which are elderly and deemed ineffective to clean the corridors and staircases of HDB blocks?

There was no follow-up enforcement to audit the service providers by the authorities concerned and they, continue to employ more and more foreigners with the town councils keeping a blind eye on this malpractices.

In recent times, the town councils introduced “best sourcing” against “cheap sourcing”. This has resulted in many contracts being awarded to higher bidders. In some cases even the highest bidder. The purpose of this is to entice our locals to join the industry by paying better wages to them. However, this is not to be and service providers kept the “extra” fees paid to them and continue using more and more foreigners. Look around our HDB estates and you can hardly find any of our locals working, you will find more foreigners instead!

While many good and well thought out policies are done at the top, there is something very seriously lacking when it comes to enforcement of these policies on the ground. Unless this is addresssed, why should town councils award contracts to a higher bidder, in many cases, tens of thousands of dollars more a month, using the S&C charges paid by residents? The service providers are the ones who benefitted most as they pay the bangladeshis as low as S$1.50/day.

SD why dont you come up with specific recommendations that both Lim Swee Say and Gan Kim Yong can both in your own words, “good to go!” with? It is easy to nit pick isn’t it?

I think it depends. If it is low skilled jobs then, I dont see a problem going local. I even think that is a great idea. But where it involves professional skills and services where the person may be paid more than less say 15K and above.

I dont see how that is possible. The problem is there isn’t many of these people in the first place, so if you go local, then what may very well happen is, you may end up having to hire more people to make sure, he doesnt screw up. Just my 2 cents.

Sad to say above monopoly WDA has ): , EDB is more interested to overclock GDP numbers in making singapore in a world class education institiuton as singapore next bullish asset.

EDB trying so hard finding so many private university to set up campus in our shore after the bitter liason with prestigious NSWU. But these new institution are schools names which are alien to most of us, does ministry of education allow these degree holders from these unversity to be teachers in singapore? Or is it a new way to enrol students from every corner of the world to spend $$ to push up GDP numbers + citizenship after graduating?

EDB is more interested to report positive GDP increase in eduacation than spending time to invite business partners like intel, samsung to manufacture ddr5 rams in singapore.

What recession, GDP numbers still going north.. big $$ in @#$@#$2 degrees to be made leh.

For the past 40 years, our governments failed to promote and produce well-known Singapore International brands for consumers’ products such as television, cameras, cars, computers etc whereas China within a shot span of 10 to 20 years is able to come up with many brands of cars such as Cherry and television such as Shinco that are able to capture the low-priced mass market. We have also been a spare parts producers for other countries’ international brands of electronic products, so when their market went into recession, we are hit the hardest. We are always at the mercy of foreign companies and foreign market conditions that’s out of our control.
Therefore to be competitive is not just cheap labour, to be competitive is about having a good popular product and an effective world marketing network to sell our own finished products. From start to finish of our product distribution chain, we do not have to rely on other company who most likely will source the cheapest parts for their brands of products. Sadly most companies here are just part of the supply chain, that make our country most vulnerable in bad times.
During this bad time, in order for companies to keep Singapore workers, the Government extraordinary measures such as helping to pay 5 to 10% of the employers’ portion of CPF contributions for Singapore workers.

During SARS in year 2003, my former company retrenched more Sporeans than foreign talents. I don’t see any different this time around. More Sporeans will be retrenched as it is cheaper for companies to keep FTs in their payroll. Companies have top pay CPF for Sporeans. It is not the case for FTs. Hence, companies will definately get rid of Sporeans first rather then FTs.

If there is no rule to stop companies from retrenching Singaporeans first, companies will simply do what’s right – ignore the government’s advice and retain the cheaper foreign workers. The quota ratio rule i.e. hire 1 Singaporean, then can hire 5 foreigners is useless because companies can work around this rule by getting PR for their foreigners.

The only way Singaporeans working low-end jobs can compete with foreign workers is to ship their families to low cost countries. The Singaporean worker alone stays in Singapore and share a room with other workers.

why you people worry about retrenchment?
got your union wor.
got your 80 plus MPs to help you wor.

well done.

Lab rat 18 / this is really a whale of a topic and I can write abt 20 pages alone on it. I don’t think, it’s a good idea to do so, unless you want everyone here to be induced into a semi comatose state.

Let me just say this very briefly. If you want to understand this subject; it’s a bit like good and bad cholesterol; the first way of wealth creation is what I call the “bad” or “lousy” type; and usually this variety of wealth is “created” by juggernaut firms such as Temasek.

The other is the “good” wealth; and it’s basically wealth created by a broad entrepreneurial class which may do so by either leveraging on a mix of local, regional and international markets.

Granted, they may both look the same; bc anyone can say; wealth is wealth.

My point is it isn’t – wealth is NOT wealth.

Bc when mega firms such as the Temaseks turn lets say a 10% on their annual return on investment – you really have to ask yourself, how did they actually create that value? Did the money circulate within the local economy?How many people were employed? What’s does the money trail look like? etc

My main criticism is usually the “value” created by this sort of wealth creation rarely or never ever translates into actual or real wealth as much as it remains paper profits.

Bc most of the time, its invested abroad and it isn’t so different from a private investor buying into lets say stock of General Motors or Boeing Aeroplane group – the money doesn’t circulate locally.

Real, actual or good wealth created by the broad entrepreneurial class on the other hand MUST circulate locally; bc that’s very much part of the ecology or conversion process i.e for wealth to be created, it first needs to go through the entire supply chain locally so there is what economist call a direct corellated cost – now its not so different from lets say someone deciding to start a spare parts import and export business for lets say re-conditioned tractor parts; the local transport company gets part of the contract ; so does the kalang guni man who goes around looking parts in tractor grave yards. And since warehousing is needed, security guards and guard dogs need to get hired along with logisticians, forklift drivers and the people who need to maintain and support all these infrastructures etc – that’s what I mean by real wealth, it circulates and benefits everyone in the system.

Hong Kong, Taiwan, Malaysia, Indonesia and Thailand have this middle band of real wealth generators – we don’t.

If Eunice Olsen could just ask someone in Parliament to give me enough start up money so that I can go to Russia and start my business and build my empire, I could be persuaded to come up with a full and comprehensive economic blueprint on how this can be accomplished complete with even math equations.

I have thought abt this for a very long time.

SD

“If Eunice Olsen could just ask someone in Parliament to give me enough start up money so that I can go to Russia and start my business and build my empire, I could be persuaded to come up with a full and comprehensive economic blueprint on how this can be accomplished complete with even math equations.”

Please do not make fun of them. They have already got some bad bitter taste from all those complex mathematical pills still fresh in their mind from those investment banking darlings. I just hope this love affair is going to last, long term.

What Lim Swee Say did NOT want to tell us is his definition of “S’poreans”, which includes PRs. Now, we all know how ridiculously easy it is for foreigners to obtain S’pore PR.

The best person armed with the abilities and capabities should remain on the paylists. Deadwoods should GO. This should be the principle that governs the profitability and survival of all Companies in any free market system. There should be no freeloaders. Too many waste fats will kill the rest of the good cells and organs. Race or nationality should not be the deciding factors. If foreign workers are classified as “talents” and invited on board at the first instant, why kick their “bundaks” and throw them out of the window in place of the local bred “blockheads” when times are bad?
This society is something wrong. The sys# was borne and nurtured this way by the present government. People wanted to move to higher rung in social order and dream that they have “arrived” mentality. They prefer to carry handphones, drive fast cars and choose to live an easy lifestyle – the 5Cs. They cannot suffer hard work and sweat under the sun – they classify those jobs as demeaning as they are also low in pay.
The next best thing the government can do is import labour to replace the local “blockheads”. Being compassionate, the government next dishes out goodies in the form of Growth Dividends and the like – “shares” etc. This further realigned and reaffirmed contentment and empty “hopes” in the population. Who want to go out in desperate search for gainful employment if such so called “safety nets” are in placed at every levels? Just look around you, the “beggars” encountered in hawker centers nowadays asked aloud unshamefully (and not begged) for $2-$5. No more 10, 20 or 50 cts.!!! This is called “beggars inflation premium”. This is a sick society.

Two years ago, over in Australia (Sydney western suburb – Toongabbie), I encountered a town council worker who is multi-tasked. I saw him came in a van just outside my niece corner house to carry out an inspection of the wooden street lamp pole that also carried Optus overhung phone wires and other low tension wirings. He dug the earth deep enough to check the pole integrity and rigidity, wrote a report on the spot and put back the earth and do a final inspection to ensure the soundness of the pole. The whole operation takes an hour. He then moved on to the next pole to continue the task of inspection. This is a one man operated job done by a local town council employee. He is an Australian and not “talents” of other origins. Now, imagine what will happen in Singapore if there is a similiar inspection. I assumed. 3 workers (foriegn) digging, 1 local supervisor standing around; after digging , all sit down and wait for another “blockhead” to arrive to write a report. Thereafter, the earth will then be shovelled back and the supervisor make few kicks on the pole to check its final state of steadiness.

This is the type of environment we are living under. We are used to this sighting in Singapore. There are no multi-tasking jobs. We are not creative to think of one. We pay 5 workers for the job which can be done by one person. This is SAD.

25) bitter taste / “Please do not make fun of them. They have already got some bad bitter taste from all those complex mathematical pills still fresh in their mind from those investment banking darlings. I just hope this love affair is going to last, long term.”

Hey man, I am serious! I’ve never been more dead serious bfr in my life – this is an unsolicited offer to save Singapore Inc. I’ve tried to ask the banks to get start up capital, but as soon as they hear Russia all of them start fashioning crucifixes with their fingers and start making teeth sucking sounds for some funny reason. I’ve gone to at least 13 banks – no deal. It’s no good. So I am desperate.

The way I see it, I am going lose my job soon and I have two choices; one I sign up for retraining and free coffee and Kong Ghuan biscuits for the next yonk years. Or two I can haul my ass to Russia and try to make something out of my averagely miserable life, but I need money first.

And let me tell you this; you’re getting all this on a fire sale discount; you have no idea how lucky you are! It’s a highly classified top secret economic plan; the ASDF (think tank) of the brotherhood came up with it 4 years ago and it’s a proven enterprise template; we have used it successfully to grow local enterprises in the virtual. And it works like a charm. I have no reason to doubt why it shouldnt work in real life!

The last planet, they sent me too, when I first went there, all of them were surviving on twigs and insects and their definition of fun was huddling in a cave and having an exciting conversation on who are we going to put into the pot this evening with some diced carrots?

After I put the plan into action when I left that same planet it had a thriving economy complete with a fully functional stock market and 15 space stations and went on to become the higher exporter of exotic metals in the whole galaxy – its valuation today in GDP terms is worth roughly the same as a small country in East Africa.

You can say it’s not real; but my point is even town planners model their assumptions these days by using sim city. If you want, I can even take you on a guided tour and you can see for yourself what I once created in the virtual – like I said, its good, very good.

But I want a tank of gas to get to Russia first.

SD

Latest – Sony just confirmed 8000 to go worldwide, hope no singaporean got pink slip as mom minister try so hard to retain them. Let see local tv got information or videos later or not.

I always wondered why SIngaporeans are workers in a company and not the bosses?

Are we too risk-averse or well trained since young to just work from 8 to 5? Do we have ambition or are we too drilled and pampered by a nanny government and mother?

I saw many FTs became PRs and they turn to do businesses – eateries, salons, trading firms, etc. after settling in our country. Many have make it with Singaporean workers who are both hard working and responsible. But, at the end of the day, they are merely workers.

Singaporeans then will answer their advertisements to be workers working under a foreign boss.

The Chinese and Indians from abroad are all great business people. I din’t know how they get their money but they are good at starting businesses and ensurung that they will succeed.

A foreign friend settling in Singapore told me how easy and comfortable it is to start a business in Singapore. There is stability, proper infrastructure and the brand name SIngapore gives confidence to those abroad even though the one starting the business is a foreigner himself.

My question is: why are Singaporeans not starting up businesses when our foreigner friends are doing ti so extensively?

WE have also not strike it out well overseas as business people in China despite SM’s plead over the past decade. I have also not seen a SME striking it successfully in any part of the world at all. Same for Australia, Malaysia, Indonesia, US, UK, Russia, etc. We have the usual government-linked companies plating themselves into China and middle east but most of them are politically inclined.

Maybe our population is too small – a nation of 4.5 million citizens. Maybe it’s our educational system that do not support risk-taking operational mode.

It could also be our too stable environment whereby we don’t see a strike or demonstration on the street. So we are moulded to always take the safe route in any thing that we do. Best to take a $4K job than risk it all on the business front where you may lose your pants and subject yourself to ridicule. This may have gravely affected our business sense – which is often greatly link with taking risk. Business is risk and risk is business.

When I shared my business plan with a friend, not only did he not support me but he even mocked me aloud. He called me a dreamer and NATO (no action talk only) – he told me that I talked alot but never ever do something about it.

His comments hurt me but worse of all, it sapped my sagging confidence of doing anything on my own at all. If I have no chance even to share it with a close friend without being call a NATO, then there is not much hope that he will even affirm me in my bold plan.

They should really start by reducing the number of FTs in Singapore. Everyday I have to journey past an industry area to reach school and the amount of FTs that I see/hear is really appalling. If they were to be remove, imagine the amount of Singaporeans that will get employed.

In addition, I got a friend who works as a manager in a fast food chain told me that he has FTs under him that are willing to work at $2.50 per hour.

Lastly, I must admit that I’m abit of a protectionist

“Race or nationality should not be the deciding factors.”

Then what is the meaning of nationhood. Why even swear under oath during your first day (my time) before NS. Why not let Singaporeans just rot and bring foreigners to completely replace them. The world can easily replace singapore citizens many times over.

“They cannot suffer hard work and sweat under the sun – they classify those jobs as demeaning as they are also low in pay.”

Are you yourself suffering from hard work and sweating under the sun in your current work. Who classify those jobs as demeaning. We are only hearing it from you.

“The next best thing the government can do is import labour to replace the local “blockheads”.

If the garment has not known already, most likely this problem is going to fall back on them eventually.

“Just look around you, the “beggars” encountered in hawker centers nowadays asked aloud unshamefully (and not begged) for $2-$5. No more 10, 20 or 50 cts.!!! This is called “beggars inflation premium”. This is a sick society.”

Really. How come I have not experienced this even though I eat at hawker centres and coffee shops almost every afternoon even sometimes on evenings & weekends. I mean different hawker centres and coffee shops. I only see some trying to sell 3 or 4 packets of tissues for 1dollar. Maybe it is your own imagination from your bloated head.

“He dug the earth deep enough to check the pole integrity and rigidity, wrote a report on the spot and put back the earth and do a final inspection to ensure the soundness of the pole. The whole operation takes an hour.”

And how much do you think your multi-tasking australian is being paid per hour. Hey, any minimum wage in australia for such work and what kind of union we are talking over there.

“Being compassionate, the government next dishes out goodies in the form of Growth Dividends and the like – “shares” etc. This further realigned and reaffirmed contentment and empty “hopes” in the population.”

Compassionate ??? Why not you challenge and beg them not to dish out goodies so that “contentment and empty “hopes” in the population” will not be realigned and reaffirmed. This is very unhealthy indeed and why must they spoil us so badly.

“There are no multi-tasking jobs. We are not creative to think of one. We pay 5 workers for the job which can be done by one person. This is SAD.”

I wonder in what kind of moronic job position you are in to make such a comment. Maybe you have slipped by actually referring to SM, MM and PM. (our own 3M as 3-in-1 and not 5-in-1). You do sound like some dirty scumbag who stinks to the core.

Eunice,

Do you remember a few months ago, a man opened the glass door for you and your friends in velocity, novena when you were testing out those wheelchairs and stared at you for an awfully long time and even complimented on how he liked your blouse and then disappeared into the crowd?– that was Darkness. Believe it or not!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iCHNCtoqqQ&feature=related

You go and get my loan and trust me, we will take it from where it left off. Remember I have the connections. I sumpah. Go girl, go get my $!

SD

Consider this: The PM gets about $330,000 per month.
Our elderly folks on public assistance gets $330 per month.

As a sidenote, this reminds me of something: do you think 1000 elderly folks can have a better decision capability than 1 PM ?
On the other hand, 1 month less of salary means nothing to the PM, but puts the lives of 1000 others on the line.
Wait, are the highly-paid even aware that there are even such people on public assistance?

Well, in the end, when this don’t work, the two of them can say that they have already tried their best to protect Singaporeans and their job….and with their heroic act, we should still vote for them because without them, more people will have lost their jobs…..

I am wondering, since the PAP says Singaporean are well trained or bilingual then surely we do command much more pay and value-added. But it seems like employers nowadays employed more FTs to be competitive and favoured them. Is there a problem with our local poly or uni education that we cant compete with those from China, Philippians, Mymmar, Vietnam etc. Since our uni always the top 50 or the best in South East Asia, surely it makes perfect sense to employ us, but this is not the case. For example, employers would hire programmers from India, China and pay them peanuts. If Singapore is to be an education hub, then we should have the technicality or the skill to compete with them. But it seems like even the teachers and tutors are FTs; Will these FTs teach us fishing or they just wayang here and there. Sometimes, I really wonder even those high end industry like Oil and Gas, Chemical or IT, you can find a lot of foreigners. Is it that Singaporean are incapable to perform the job or simple they are overtaken by those from the cheap country. PAP always benchmark themselves with the high earners, but are the ministers really commands that pay since they are on par with the locals. Perhaps it’s time to replace them with cheaper FTs, maybe they will produce more results than this dismal economic situation in Singapore ran by GIC or Temasek or the LEEs.

“Wait, are the highly-paid even aware that there are even such people on public assistance?” – James (#34)

Michael Palmer did not know that there were poor people in developed countries till he joined the grassroots organisations. It was believed that the father of WSM even filtered her friends, I do not know what was the filtering criteria – character or wealth.

frankly speaking, i would wana live in a country wif a number of union and workers’ strikes and demostrations against organizations practices than a place where the union is the govt.

when the workers union is the govt themselves then must as well forego the union, maybe can save a couple of millions a year paying all these dummy officers who only take orders and instructions directly from the govt themselves. wayang wayang but please don’t make it so obvious, everyone knows the union here is just for show only, just the same like CASE and all those PAP MPs meet-the-people sessions, all are just wayang and wasting taxpayers monies.

singaporeans ask for it and got what they asked for :

1. 80 + people’s representatives to help them voice their concerns and not just ask questions but get answers.

2. A strong union that is so dedicated to workers. Membership so worth it.
1st world union! 1st world citizens of democracy. stedi bom bi bi. transparency and accountability plus responsibility and HONESTY and Integrity wor.

Singporeans asked for it, here its their due reward – to enjoy the greatest epic that can surpass Bollywood-Hollwood combine.

Isnt it strange I thought – when we were told that foreigners are here to keep our businesses going on so Singaporeans can have their jobs. SO WHY PLEAD FOR FOREGINERS TO BE KICKED OUT FIRST ???

Also I thought it was banded about that how foreigners were so hard working, willing to go extra MILES, willing to go for even a lower pay that Singaporeans wanted, and soo many employers praising their cheaper hardworking foreigners
compared to Singaporeans.

Then it goes, where is the logic to retrench these priceless assets when compared to so-called worthless, choosy Singaporeans ??

I cant understand what business management logic here ???

4) Ravi Philemon – $2/hr is not a living wage in Singapore. It’s disgusting that there are people who would suggest paying someone that. I won’t even give a Boy Scout $2.

6) Gilbert Goh – You said that in Australia “a company can only employ a foreigner if he has advertised for six months and could not find any suitable candidates from the general Aussie population.”

Our ministers have always maintained that if they impose these sort of restrictions, companies will always find a way to get around it. What do you say to that?

12) singaporedaddy – “we should leave it to businesses to decide accordingly; after all they are the ones who are in the best position to determine what is relevant and irrelevant”.

I agree. That’s why govt policies should focus on incentives to do what is best for Singaporeans, and disincentives to do things which will disadvantage locals. Level or tilt the playing field in favour of locals, not the other way around. For example, impose a higher local to foreign worker ratio, and impose a levy equivalent to the employer CPF, NS leave and maternity leave combined. The money collected from the levy should go directly to Workfare and unemployment insurance for Singaporeans. There is no need for GST hike then.

41) Whitley-Gate – Using the Minister’s logic, if we kick out the foreigners now, then we might have difficulty attracting them back when the economy improves.

I think such message is to tell us that they really really take care of us Singaporean workers.
However the employer knows best who to retain to remain alive. I would think its better for the Garmen to think on what they can do for the employer instead.If employers and companies survive,then there should be no more need for them to decide on who should go first.
Unnecessary restriction and regulation should be remove to make hiring of local employees more easier.Let the employer esp. SMEs have a chance to speak up and not always listen to the Cheng Hoo Larng thinking…..

I had often commented that the ruling party has “LOST TOUCH” with the ground over these years. Personally, i have the impression that government ministries are so obsessed with KPI now.

If i did not remember wrongly, i read an article quite sometime ago about a local coffeeshop auntie who sold beer, complaining to Mr George Teo ( i think so, my apology if i got the wrong person), about how she felt that her job was being threatened by some young pretty Chinese beer sellers who were employed recently. In his reply, he told the auntie that she should not worried because the Chinese beer sellers would bring in more customers, and this will result in her keeping her job. I beg to differ. Why? It is because if i am the coffeshop owner, i will employ one more young Chinese beer seller to take over the auntie’s job since she is able to attract more customers with probably lesser pay.

When our MM commented about the issue of ministers having high salaries, he told us to “GET REAL”. Now, to be realistic too, why should companies retrench foreign workers instead of locals? In times of difficulties, what matters are $$$ and survival so i don’t agree with what Mr Lim said. All along, even during good times, foreign workers are able to work more, less demands, less problems with less pay. Why should companies trade them with us?
We live in Singapore, most of us will have to “GET REAL” and work so when Singapore recovers, what makes you think that these companies cannot find local talents?

These few examples that i mentioned only made me believe the government has lost touch.

In view of our current policies, Singapore, being heavily affected by free market forces will only continue to get more and more expensive. If this continues, Singapore exists to serve only as a playground for the rich and famous.

I think the government by now should realise that nothing lasts forever and that even Singapore, having enjoys much rapid economic growth for the past 10yrs or so, still has to face the potential of a recession. Economic slowdown is normal in any country and people shouldn’t feel depressed when retrenched, but one thing must be noted, that is the way the government runs the system. In my opinion, the government has done a bad job of running Singapore

Firstly, since the start of the 80s or 90s, the introduction of foreign workers to sustain Singapore’s economic stability was viewed as necessary since birth rates aren’t rising as a result of social affluence and other reasons. Now that recession sets in, the government simply proposes to remove these foreign workers as a straight forward solution. While I’m not sympathising with the foreign workers, I find this not being the best solution.

Secondly, the social fabric has already changed from a once peaceful and prosperous state into a much decayed one, most commonly explained by the current belief that foreigners take away local jobs, rendering Singaporeans little or no opportunities to expand their careers locally since employers prefer cheap labour in the economic sense, as a result there is an outflux of Singaporeans to overseas. Now that recession sets in, the government’s decision to simply retrench foreigners first then Singaporeans clearly shows that the government has no sense of humanity, merely treat workers, both locals and foreign, as just chess pieces under their manipulation in order to achieve their economic targets, which I find it cruel, insane and unacceptable.

It is very very difficult for Singaporean worker to compete with foreign worker.
Not impossible but he needs to overcome a lot of obstacles:

1. Cost of living.

Singaporean needs a minimum wage to cover the cost of living for his family in Singapore. Foreign worker’s family is in his own country which has lower costs of living, hence can request lower pay.

2. Employer’s unrealistic expectations.

Singapore employers’ expectations of a good worker is close to that of a slave. Cheap, can work 14 hours, 7 days a week. Need no rights, benefits, no off days, no MC, say yes to every instruction, can be scolded, treated like garbage anytime. It is not that the foreign workers don’t have feelings. They bear with this nonsense because they borrowed a lot of money to come here and their lives will be destroyed if they quit and return empty handed. It is just like us during NS. We bear with all the nonsense so that we can ORD safely.

When companies complain to government that Singaporean workers are fussy, they simply mean that Singaporeans are not willing to be treated like slaves.

Even if a Singaporean worker is willing to work for the same low wages as the foreign worker, I doubt that the employer would hire the Singaporean because of the above reason.

3. Liberal foreign worker import.

Let’s face it, we are obsessed with youth. In a low end job where experience does not matter, age is a disadvantage. All things being equal, employers would prefer a single young attractive worker than a middle age family man/woman. With an endless supply of young attractive workers, who would still hire the older Singaporean?

The govt has all along advocated for polices that favour a pro business environment sometimes at the detriment of our social environment:

1. IRs/casinos – I followed closely the IR episode few years back and decided that LSL favours the introduction of the IRs to our shore becasue of job creation. Though a noble initiative initially, the last report shows that 60% of the jobs created will go to foreigners as we don’t have the skills and people for the work. Policy goes wrong?

2. FTs – this introduction of FTs to our shore also cemented by LSL advocation that without FTs companies will pack and go and Singaporeans will also lose jobs in the process. So far, there isn’t any statistics to back this up even though many have asked for it. Rumours spread that it is not just jobs that these FTs bring but also this group helps to arrrest a dipping population with racial implication.

3. SIngapore Pools – the flood of betting shops all over our island is also backed up by the fact that Singapore Pools will use the proceeds for charitable cause. We don’t really know whether this is true but each year they make close to $3 billion in net profits from our gambling citizens. Also another pro-business social hazard.

4. F1 – the F1 though a much touted intrnational event did not really went down well with the general population. It not only inconvenienced many with the closed roads but also the event is more for wealthy foreigners who favour such events more than Singaporeans. Of course, the event benefitted hotel and tour businesses. Business as usual for the govt?

5. Sales of all our power plants to foreigners – we sold off our last power plant to a Malaysian company last week without a whiper from our people. If this happened elsewhere, the population will rise up in protest. This to me signalled the final consolidation in power base of a dominant political party. If the govt can sell off part of the country’s resources without even a fanfare from the people, they have finally gain complete power politically not unlike that of a communist country. Pure business sense again here.

Actually if I were an employer, even though keeping my costs low is top priority, I will still choose to employ locals rather than foreigners. Perhaps it’s the cultural differences that I find it hard to accept.

aiyoyo

is it commoners pay enough gst (at least)?
water, elect bills tax?
(with oil price peg at ~90usd/barrel, while currently ~45usd/barrel)
sinking funds?
bus/mrt increases?
public housing at so high price? etc. etc.

it will be very helpful if ELITEs can create more jobs for commoners,
(after commoners pay so much tax already,
not sure if you guys share same viewpoint or not)
URGE ELITEs to work more within the country,
resolve internal economy 1st,
instead of sinking investment here, sinking investment there etc. etc.
think with proper usage of the $$ instead of investing, believe can help commoners directly + meaningful too.

aiyoyo

I dare our Ministers open out their assets and show us that they are suffering with us together?

i dare singpapore pools to take pictures of people to have win toto first prize and show to the public.

like other country people who win big prizes will be shown live to other people.

Free competition in the labour market, without safeguards, will continue to push down wages. With outsourcing of many types of work, the wages of the contract workers have now fallen below the subsidence level. Many family now needs two or three jobs to earn enough to survive.

Many countries solve this problem by introducing a “minimum wage”. I suggest that the minimum wage in Singapore should be SGD 10 an hour. If this wage is applied to cleaners, shop attendants and other low income jobs, there will be sufficient Singaporeans who are keen to accept these jobs – rather than remain unemployed.

We should continue to control the number of foreign workers who are allowed to take these jobs. The employer should be required to provide acceptable standard of accommodation and medical benefits to these worker. This will increase the cost of these foreign workers, and reduce the attraction of their “lower cost”, as compared to local workers. The foreign worker’s levy can continue to be levied.

If we need foreign workers to increase the pool of manpower, let us welcome them as long term immigrants. If they bring their family here, they will have to face the same high cost of living and cannot depress the wages fo local workers. This will be the subject of a separate discussion.

A minimum wage policy may mean that the customers have to pay more for these services. But, the increase may not be as large as feared. The wages of the workers is only one component of total cost. The other components are rental, profit and management salaries. I expect that, in a competitive market, these other components will fall to more reasonable levels, before the charges to the customers are raised.

Some people argued that higher wages will fo force businesses to locate to other countires. This argument does not hold water for the domestic service sector, which will be an important source of employment for the local people.

Anyway, we do not need many businesses in Singapore to create employment for foriegn and local workers who earn below the minimum wage. The large number of foriegn workers working in Singpaore at the depressed wages will create social problems that are not fully realised at this time.

I like to ask for support for a minimum wage policy in Singapore. This is social justice and fairness. It is for the long term good of our society.

The economy is well maitained not for us, don’t you people get it?
If it isn’t for the approaching GE, the song currently sung would be different…

Agree with TKL. Min wage balanced by control of foreign workers.

i went to nokia service centre at Century Sq yesterday to have my handphone repaired. Around 3 of the 5-6 counter service staff were filipinos. I thought to myself, these people should not even be sitting there! They represent 3 locals who could have been gainfully employed.

For LOCALISED jobs, the quota for foreign workers/talents should be ZERO. Govt authorities should consciously identify industries or businesses real manpower needs and segregate localised jobs from non-localised ones.

For non localised jobs – i.e. jobs with a real danger of being uprooted if employers dont get to hire foreign workers/talents, the quota can even be set higher, say 50% or higher. Presently the blanket system of applying the same quota level for ALL businesses and industries results in companies which really need these foreign workers not having them and businesses who should really be hiring locals hiring foregin workers instead. When the imbalance is rectified, there is really no need for a minimum wage as foreign workers will not compete with locals for LOCALISED jobs while few locals will choose to work in factories which pay low wages.

Back to my Nokia eg. I would rather see a 55 yr old retired uncle/aunty who had min O levels performing the job probably on a part time basis.

I have no qualms about having foreigners working here as long as the company genuinely could not find a suitable local for the job. I am sure these customer service jobs could be handed to locals instead. It’s depressing. What’s the use of Singapore nationality if you got no social security? Besides, it feels like Bangladesh or China in some neighborhoods & town. Without social & job security, we are still expected to pro-create babies for the gahment. Well, pro-create this! *Flashes Stone Cold Steve Austin’s trademark gesture*

Yeah, let’s get real, times are bad & companies would rather hire cheaper foreigners than locals to prevent themselves from closing down. However, the truth is, locals still have to live. & gahment’s not appreciating locals enough to lend a helping hand. Are the reserve funds solely reserved for the possibility of the country’s revival after World War 3? Locals losing jobs due to open-door policies is just the tip of the iceberg. Gi-normous influx of foreigners could lead demophobia (fear of crowds) & xenophobia.

Has anyone read about “yellow peril”? It’s America’s fear of large influx of Chinese immigrants stealing their jobs & bringing in a world of different, unfamiliar culture in the late 1800s.

“The Burlingame Treaty of 1869 encouraged the Chinese to emigrate to the United States in greater numbers. Reacting to the America’s fear of the “yellow peril,” in 1877 Denis Kearney organized the Workingman’s Party with the rallying cry, “The Chinese Must Go!” which led to the looting and burning of many Chinese businesses.”

We could see a repeat right here in Singapore.

Well…55) Raymond, i know some managers of cust svc centre, and i ask them why are they employing more filipinos, and the reason they gave for employing filipinos is because Singaporeans who work in this line tend to job-hop quite often, while the filipinos will stay for a really long term….

and 53) C J , i agree with what you have said…furthermore, if the next election, i don’t think the opposition will be able to win much from the gahmen during the next ge, but if there is a significant drop in vote for the MIW, i think that will be a nice little message….but at this rate we are going…will we ever see changes here during our prime.

#55) Raymond,

This year alone, I see many HDB neighbourhood convenient stores employed Foreigners like Indians, Filipinos or Sri Lankans or Bangalans.

I HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS SITUATION BEFORE!

It started with Factory line workers: Many were from Malaysia in the 90’s to around 2001. The Financial crisis and decline of manufacturing led to less of such employment although many factory workers are still foreigners. Many singaporean housewives used to work as factory workers. The foreigners competed and affected their wages.

Then, China ladies began to be employed as beer or coffee ladies. Many uncles and aunties also lose out.

These working in coffee shops, 24hr stores and neigbourhood convenient stores are generally foreigners without much , if any, skills . Why are they allowed to come here? The no-brainer answer is lower cost. But the real question still remains : These are not difficult jobs. Locals can do these jobs. There are still many locals who are renting HDBs and lowly educated that could not compete in corporates due to also many foreigners employed there. The real problem is jobs are being taken away and SOLUTION is lacking or have not taken effect. The unemployment situation is prove that the problem still remains.

Singapore only has so small population to provide jobs for unlike USA where millions of jobs are still being created in this crisis. How many jobs have singapore created?

55) Raymond on December 10th, 2008 9.02 am

i went to nokia service centre at Century Sq yesterday to have my handphone repaired. Around 3 of the 5-6 counter service staff were filipinos. I thought to myself, these people should not even be sitting there! They represent 3 locals who could have been gainfully employed.

This is nothing, I went for my tooth extraction in Alexandra Hospital, goodness the entire dental clinic alone are filled with filippinos except for 1 lady dentist (doctor) who could be a local or even malaysian. see how cheap our garment can be when comes to employing cheap labours, and when comes to billing, they charge their world class service fee.

[...] Fire Foreigners First – groundnotes: Protecting the Singaporean Middle Class? – TOC: S’poreans and foreigners both paying the price [...]

Hopefully, the majority of apathetic Singaporeans wake up from their slumber of trusting the PAP to deliver on their past “caveat emptor” promises of more good and golden years. The on-going financial crisis is heaven’s revelation of the real workings of the people in power and authority.

If this does not translate into much stronger opposition in future, Singaporeans’ horizon is as good as sold – remaining as herded sheep, stripped naked of their wool and waiting to be processed into mutton.

All for the economic value only, nothing more and nothing less.

57) SZ on December 10th, 2008 10.17 am Well…55) Raymond, i know some managers of cust svc centre, and i ask them why are they employing more filipinos, and the reason they gave for employing filipinos is because Singaporeans who work in this line tend to job-hop quite often, while the filipinos will stay for a really long term….

SZ..please also ask your friend how much they are paying these customer service people and you will start to get some idea why job hopping among locals is prevalent. These companies pay them peanuts, work them long hours and expect them to be loyal. And please also find out why foreigners dont mind this kind of shit….i think i can shed some light in addition to those highlighted in the original article.

For the foreign workers,

1. they are alone without families…so what is family time to them?
2. they share rooms or flats with others…accomodation cost is affordable
3. they have only to remit 50% of their low pay in Singapore back home and it is equivalent to 1 to 2 months of their pay back home.
4. they are generally younger and have a lot of energy.

can the locals do the same thing?.

Yes. if such jobs are restricted to locals, service costs is expected to go up as wages are expected to increase,..but if corporations, govt as well as consumers can come in to share some of the increased cost, i think LOCALS for LOCALS is not too far fetched an idea.

Although our leaders of NTUC & Government had strongly advocated and urged all the employers in Singapore not to axe jobs, but it seems a common scene that quite a number of big employers do not listen and act accordingly to the Government’s advocacy.

They do not firstly think of any possible way to cut costs, they still pt for the easy and simple way of cutting jobs-retrench workers without deeper thought and searching for alternative solutions.

Why elites never say this to DBS? Now want to act garang and question these 2 MNCs?

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/cna/20081209/tap-197-parent-companies-mncs-cut-jobs-231650b.html

Singapore’s labour movement urged Sony and Nomura to justify the headcount cut.

Halimah Yacob, Deputy Secretary—General, NTUC, said: “What these two companies will have to do is to explain the circumstances under which these retrenchments are being carried out, that they have exhausted all other possibilities and not just merely say this is the headquarters’ instruction to them.”

Its a joke to tell big corporations how to run their business. These are big corporations spanning the globe with thousands on their payroll. Iif they insist on cutting, really there is nothing the govt can do..such remarks in my opinion is more of a PR thing.

As a matter of fact, I would rather not blame the big corporations for shedding jobs but blame ourselves for not having enough jobs for locals.

#5 Andrew Loh
And we haven’t even scrutinised the so-called “re-training” during bad times, as the NTUC has been urging people to do.

It depends if you believe getting a job is more sustainable than getting subsidy handouts. If do you, re-training is probably the best way for people to get a new job or demand higher pay.

A large part of the current economic cause is that international exports, which drastically shrunk, account for about 200% the GDP [1].

It’s easy to get flare up with the ruling government in bad economy. In the USA, people blame the Bush administration. In Canada, the conservative party. In Taiwan, the pro-China policies. In Thailand, whoever comes to power. Let’s not get too emotional. Anger doesn’t solve problems.

Anyway, it will be good to hear what the PAP has to say about the economic and implementation aspects of minimum wage. For example, are we also going to raise the minimum wages for foreign construction workers and hence raise construction costs? There is no question about the social benefits.

[1] http://earthtrends.wri.org/pdf_library/country_profiles/eco_cou_702.pdf

Sorry to hear all the injustice everyone share here. ):But main problem the group of highest paid ministers in the world faced now is how to get their full pay reinstalled by next fall. If I am right, dual citizen membership will be implement during budget 2009 in order to boast value all the bank they owned in singapore, GDP from 0 to 3.3 with so many billions coming in, more good years.

57) SZ. Singaporeans job hop because they don’t like being treated as slaves. The foreign worker stays because he CANNOT LEAVE.

It is like saying an SAF regular is not as good as an NSF because the NSF don’t job hop, willing to work OT without pay and is ten times cheaper.

2. Employer’s unrealistic expectations.

Singapore employers’ expectations of a good worker is close to that of a slave. Cheap, can work 14 hours, 7 days a week. Need no rights, benefits, no off days, no MC, say yes to every instruction, can be scolded, treated like garbage anytime. It is not that the foreign workers don’t have feelings. They bear with this nonsense because they borrowed a lot of money to come here and their lives will be destroyed if they quit and return empty handed. It is just like us during NS. We bear with all the nonsense so that we can ORD safely.

When companies complain to government that Singaporean workers are fussy, they simply mean that Singaporeans are not willing to be treated like slaves.

Even if a Singaporean worker is willing to work for the same low wages as the foreign worker, I doubt that the employer would hire the Singaporean because of the above reason.

THE SOLUTION is not to turn a blind eye to foreign worker abuses. I know it is tempting to feel that they deserve it because they stole our jobs, create social problems, etc. However, if you turn a blind eye to employers abusing foreign workers, it will only encourage employers to continue favouring foreigners, who they can easily abuse, over Singaporeans!

Not only that, you become a very bad person full of hatred, turning away from injustices, for reasons you cannot control. You didn’t ask for foreign workers to come, so why should you be the one who become a bad person while the government and employers reap the benefits?

68) JohnnyKid

Not all service centre treat their staff as slaves…and if it is because of this mentality, then we can’t blame some companies from employing those foreign workers. if it is because of unfair practices, then something can be done to rectify it. but singaporeans lost out jobs to foreigner because of their inability to take a little of hardship, then what can we do? I do admit cust svc and retail offers miserable pay for long working hours and some don’t even have much benefit, with lots of shit to boot…and yet the company expect you to put in 2x of work for the same amount of money, thus alot of people can’t take it…and if alot of singaporeans don’t want to work in this line…then they can only look for the foreigners.

Now you can say that things can be improved to entice locals to work in those sectors….do you think a company will want to increase their pay for retail and cust svc staff? or shorten the working hours….and since they can employ others who can bear with the shit, why will they want locals then…

i mean if there is a job that both locals and foreigner wants to do, then if they employ foreigner over local, it is wrong…but for jobs that singapore doesn’t realli want to work in, then as a company, of course they will choose the cheaper one that will be more “committed” ask yourself this…if you are the boss,what will do?

70) SZ

Singaporean workers expect a decent working conditions with a decent pay. This is not an unreasonable request.

From an employer’s point of view, who would say no to lowly paid workers who can work for long hours? Best is FOC a.k.a slaves. There must be a limit to this.

The root causes are is liberal foreign import policy and government closing a blind eye to worker abuses.

71) JohnnyKid

“The root causes are is liberal foreign import policy and government closing a blind eye to worker abuses.”

i concede with this… i mean, it is hard to balance out…everyone sought their own benefits.

aiyoyo

is it next time taxi drivers also belong to foreign talents???

aiyoyo

[...] 10, 2008 http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/12/sporeans-and-foreigners-both-paying-the-price/#commentsPoll: Take part in the survey on the right panelFree competition in the labour market, without [...]

My company has several foreign workers. One’s a PRC who is currently in the admin / technical side. When she first came, she was pretty happy and her work was exemplary. So much so that the boss wanted to give her a chance at a better paying position.

But as time went on, she found out things such as she’s getting far lower pay than the locals for the same job, and there is no automatic pay adjustment after probation like in her previous company. Then more random ad-hoc duties got added which resulted in OT. She didn’t like all the OT she was doing, but didn’t object too much since she was still getting paid and she needed the money. Then the boss added work that she has to bring home to do FOC with her own equipment.

Most people seem to think that foreign workers are okay with long hours and low pay. By this reasoning, you’d think she’s happy even with all these. Odds are, we can all see when our coworkers are unhappy and doing their work only grudgingly, and I can tell you that she isn’t happy.

In fact, she told me once when I asked her how Singapore compared, that she was actually getting a higher pay and more respect back in China, even if it’s not in actual cash, but in kind such as food and accommodation provided by the company that she has to pay for herself here.

If you’re a boss and reading this, wake up. Even foreign workers are humans and have the same feelings as Singaporeans. Does anyone honestly think unhappy workers are very productive and willing give their best to the company? Or will their unhappiness rub off on the quality of their work and cause mistake after mistake that end up costing the company more money than if they’d provided good working conditions in the first place?

52) Tan Kin Lian – I am beginning to agree with having a minimum wage. Previously, I was of the view that it would push up business costs too much, and will be too inflexible to adjust to changing market conditions. I think both of these can be managed. As you mentioned, there are many components to business costs, and wages are just one of them. The minimum wage could be an amount that is reviewed every year, subject to Parliamentary approval. I also support quotas for locals, regardless of level.

76) Gerald

Yesh, minimum wages helps, but the reply will be the same…singapore needs to be competitive….so sacrifice yourself and accept what you are having so that there will be more investment in singapore,resulting in growth and a big bonus for we know who.

Hi Gerald (#76)

I carried out a poll at my blog. 150 people replied. 73% support a minimum wage policy. 20% disagree. 7% are undecided.

I presented the same reasoning set out in #52. Someone said that $10 per hour may be too high. On reflection, I agree. Maybe $8 per hour ($8X8X20 = $1260 per month) may be a good starting point.

Previously, most people argued as a minimum wage policy. They repeated the arguments put forward by our government leaders. Now, many people are convinced on the need for this safeguard. They are now aware about how bad things can get under the free market policy, where the weak and the less educated are exploited.

from my personal work experience, many foreigners actually work for few years and try to migrate to Europe or USA. No matter how much they are unhappy with the work etc, they bear it cos back home, the population is so large, they cannot compete and hence they come to Sg. to work. I would not said that all of them are incompetent but then the policies we have are at the expense of the local thou. Nevertheless, foreigners are indeed important to our small economy.

I would like to raise my concern about the 1st world we are in now.

1. Singapore – 1st world.
Also, pro Business. Not sure is there any country more pro business than it is.

1st world – 1st world cost of living and this cost is rising or will surely rise further. By how much more? Not sure.

Pro Business – in a sense it means as competitively low employee salary as possible. Also, it allows employers like MNCs and local SMEs to hire many many foreigners. Excellent policies that foreign workers must be enjoying and grateful for. Employers happy about these policies. Not sure how employers think of cpf, however.

It is then quite obvious that this will drive down salaries on average for the lower to middle class workers.

Retrenchments and Poor Job Market and Competition among talents – there are locals who have rare or excellent skills or high market value that makes them less affected by these factors and command high 1st world salaries. But these are in small numbers. The top few percent. The rest, unfortunately, are
affected by foreign workers directly or indirectly.

In other words, I find that there is something not so right. While we have progressed to 1st world status, on paper, I do not see that the majority salaries have or will go up to 1st world, in tadem with the cost of living.

While people need to work hard, study hard and upgrade, and be more
capable than foreign workers to command more, the FACT remains, many
are not in the top few percent. These people can be replaced by Foreigners. Generally, what skills does foreigners not have? Why should MNCs and even
local companies hire a citizen, in terms of skills? Ok, there may be some jobs but generally, foreigners can replace locals, skills wise.

Agree? How many foreigners can be hired? How long does it take to
convert from foreigner to PR (also foreigner with long term visa)?

See what I am talking about?

While it is an achievement to have reached 1st world status, I am
concerned that the majority MAY NOT BE READY for it in terms of
skills, exposure, mentality. Also , I am concerned about the engines
of growth – rely on Gambling and Resorts? F1 ? That is the way to
go? Any Assurance it will work? The Fact remains, majority are not
born with silver spoon or can inherit a business from their parents
or have rich relatives to help them get cushy jobs or have career
paths planned decades in advance for them. They have to compete with mostly talents from 3rd worlds and yet need more salary in order to have a family here.

Regardless of all the Contraints or Excuses, SOLUTION need to be
provided to Bring the Majority to 1st world level in terms of (and
not limited to):

1. Job Opportunities (what kinds of 1st world jobs are created?), Skills (education system plays a big role), Salary, Competency, Productivity

2. QUALITY of LIFE <- especially important

3. Cost of Living

4. Safety – are there more crimes now than before? more secured?

5. Accountability – Charities

6. Freedom of Speech and Expression

7. etc. you name it

Hi Mr Tan Kin Lian,

I do not agree that one can simply conjure a number and consider that as the minimum subsistence wage, I am sure you have your justification, would you like to elaborate this figure in your blog?

I think a sound methodology is to adopt the median income of Singapore residents a reference, using a measurement of based on disposable income to decide this figure.

Also understand the stance of those who disagree. Some of which are valid consideration.

By imposing min. wage, it might raise the cost of labour, would it bring about more unemployment in this category?

Young people without qualification or experience. Will they have a harder time getting traction on the job market?

If labour cost is to increase, will we have to accept this cost being passed on to consumer?

Not all foreign workers will be retrench as some of their pay packages are lower than locals, hence the preference to retain some foreign workers. Moreever, there are alot of contract & temp workers in bigger companies. Once their contract expires, the company can choose not to renew their contracts thus letting them go & protecting the jobs of permanent staff. Minimum wage, if to impose, should apply to both local & foreign workers, so foreign workers will not be view as a cheaper alternatives to locals.

the truth is always cruel, the root of the problem is not just confine to our low wage citizens. It is now spreading to the midle income citizens like myself.

I have it near impossible for one to get a so call “long term career” as the phase job security seem to be a taboo! No one seem to be able to hold a job for long – thanks to term such as restructuring, contract employment etc . (to me, all these words = expliotation. It is hard to believe that corporate just treat employees as numbers which can be manipulated when the tile is not on their side!

How can one plan for his future such as having a home (HDB) which is a committment for 20 to 30 years when he cannot even be sure he will be able keep his job for 5 years? Not to mention if you intent to have kid(s)!

Unless u r one of the top wage earner, the issue of high inflation, ever increasing public transport, ERP, means testing for medical are always there to test you skill of adaptation.

Next you will hv to compete with FT, FW who are here so that “we can keep our jobs” , they also keep wages low – All in the name of keeeping ourselve “competitive”

Suddenly , we realised that what we used to believe in are all wrong, No one talk about growing with company, loyalty etc etc.

Retirement? u can forget about it as most of my CPF would be used to maintain the mandatory minimum sum to be set aside.

So SAD!

#73 aiyoyo

Bus companies are also employing PRC as bus drivers ! (oop, sorry, now they are know as bus captain. Ata sikit. ) .

81) alphaville on December 11th, 2008 3.29 am

Do you mean :

1. That min wage may raise the labor cost and thus lower employment rate and may lead to higher consumer prices and so you CONCLUDE that min wage cannot work and should not be implemented?

I have news for you:

1. Consumer price : It will rise regardless of min wage.

2. Labor cost : why you don’t focus on Rental cost 1st ? Why you don’t focus on greed 1st ? Why CEOs getting so much?

3. Unemployment rate : that depends on the world economy, not labor cost. Successful companies will thrive even in economic slowdown. They continue to pay employees good salaries. So, Unsuccessful companies incompetent to survive will still Retrench and Cut salaries and Cut staff due to its incompetencies or failures or boo boo in investments that are not their core competencies.

In conclusion, I like to let you know that there is yet a min wage figure set. How do you know that will cause more problems than bring good effects? How would you protect the lowest income earners are not exploited by businesses who can only resort to cutting salaries to survive and in order for their CEO or boss to satisfy his hunger for more luxuries even when these bosses are incompetent of capturing the market or producing top notch products and services?

Without min wage, social problems can result. Desperate, people can commit crimes to get more money. You think for the corporations. Have you thought from a national perspective?

There is a need for min wage, not max wage. To derive Min wage I would think the cost of living will be considered and this wage must allow a typical lowest wage earner to live a life with some decency. This also relates to human rights – the right to live in dignity.

I do believe there is a need for maximum wages limit… For ministers! They insist on gettin’ “market rates” for their wages, ‘cos they think they’re delivering worldclass leadership to the country. Well, we peasants ain’t well taken care of enough. Not to mention poorer peasants. Bring on the next contestant!

Market economy always driven by supply and demand and Or by WRONG government policy.

Freeflow (almost) of CHEAP unskilled foreign labour; repeat not foreign talent…… depressed the unskilled labour market in Singapore.

There is not incentive for company to upgrade the skill or quality of work since CHEAP unskilled foreign labours is available. This WRONG policy also threaten the local low skilled workers to fight for low salary job i.e. less than $600/mth for cleaner etc

COE bidding system for company wanted to employ foreign labours similar to COE system for car.

Labour Cert of entitlement (In company’s name not individual foreign worker’s name) bid price start at $250/mth valid for 2 -3 yrs. Same as COE of the car there is limited quota each month. The highest bidders get the COE to import foreign labour to work in Singapore. If demand is high and quota is limited, perhaps a cleaner’s COE can be as high as $10,000. If company desperately need to hire foreigners and can’t find local to wash his dish. Company have to pay $10,000/mth for dish washer. I am sure many local will want to wash dish for $10,000 instead of $600 per month now.

We have problem solved – WHY go through the NONSENSE of retraining programme to wash dish???? In Western country due to high labour cost; all the expensive dish washer machine is doing the job except Singapore.

I am not talented local that have make such reccommendation to MOM year ago but throw out as stupid idea. That’s the attitude of our TOP civil servant with a fat pay check!!!!!!!

85) Do You Mean ?

you are wrong about unemployment rate relation with labor cost

Unemployment rate depends on the global economy, and is related to labor cost…if labour cost increase, a company with that fix amount of money can only hire lesser staff, although they can opt pay more to hire the same amount of workers as before labour cost increase, but how many of those company will do that? this type of scenario is known as classical unemployment and in short, it is link to the marginal product of labour (micheal palmer)

current rise in prices of product is caused by the depreciation of SGD vis-a-vis USD. the price of import has been increasing due to a weakening SGD…however that is unavoidable in order to boost export – linking to GDP, to boost growth, weakening of currency is needed. however, the one taking the blunt will be the consumer as price of import increase with weaken SGD.

[...] to the Local Worker – groundnotes: Protecting the Singaporean Middle Class? [Recommended] – TOC: S’poreans and foreigners both paying the price [Recommended] – To Fix a Mocking Peasant: The 3 Tenets of Great Governance – TOC: Tripartism not [...]

Indeed there should be a Maximun and Minimun salary in place at the range from S$1,500 lowest to highest at S$300,000. Why are we paying someones world higher saLARY about 3millions plus not to mention the allowances, bounus, profit sharings. A world smallest national with local citizens around 3millions populations excluded PRs & foreigners. It is ready a huge burden for their peoples to paid. All the MPs monthly miting session allowances (approx. $13k) should be removed. Look US Presidens only taking US$500K ++, for their county side and populations, it must be a big joke!

Just a bloody wayang. If the PAP is serious about protecting local workers from dismissal, all they need to do is implement minimum wage, or even a levy on foreign workers. Once they cost as much as locals, let’s see who is asked to go first!

angry_one

Just ask yourself this question. If even the government agencies are offering jobs DIRECTLY to foreigners, what else can we expect from them ?

Go to Jobstreet Singapore portal, click on JOBS IN SINGAPORE FOR FOREIGNERS.

Vote out the PAP

talk all they can(govt)! they’re to me,are running out of ideas and planning. we’re not digits,but we can decide our own fate and future.i’ve already decided who to cast my vote.

“The Minister evidently has never been a business owner himself.” Dont you think that says it all?