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	<title>Comments on: S&#8217;poreans and foreigners both paying the price</title>
	<atom:link href="http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/12/sporeans-and-foreigners-both-paying-the-price/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/12/sporeans-and-foreigners-both-paying-the-price/</link>
	<description>a community of Singaporeans</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 09:50:10 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Tan Kin Lian</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/12/sporeans-and-foreigners-both-paying-the-price/comment-page-2/#comment-153432</link>
		<dc:creator>Tan Kin Lian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jul 2010 06:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=3838#comment-153432</guid>
		<description>Marucs says he&#039;s in love with Tan Kin Lian!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marucs says he&#8217;s in love with Tan Kin Lian!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: DDay</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/12/sporeans-and-foreigners-both-paying-the-price/comment-page-2/#comment-128919</link>
		<dc:creator>DDay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:57:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=3838#comment-128919</guid>
		<description>&quot;The Minister evidently has never been a business owner himself.&quot; Dont you think that says it all?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The Minister evidently has never been a business owner himself.&#8221; Dont you think that says it all?</p>
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		<title>By: OB marker</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/12/sporeans-and-foreigners-both-paying-the-price/comment-page-2/#comment-128916</link>
		<dc:creator>OB marker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:39:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=3838#comment-128916</guid>
		<description>talk all they can(govt)! they&#039;re to me,are running out of ideas and planning. we&#039;re not digits,but we can decide our own fate and future.i&#039;ve already decided who to cast my vote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>talk all they can(govt)! they&#8217;re to me,are running out of ideas and planning. we&#8217;re not digits,but we can decide our own fate and future.i&#8217;ve already decided who to cast my vote.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Michael Teo</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/12/sporeans-and-foreigners-both-paying-the-price/comment-page-2/#comment-128914</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Michael Teo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:36:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=3838#comment-128914</guid>
		<description>angry_one 

Just ask yourself this question.   If even the government agencies are offering jobs DIRECTLY to foreigners, what else can we expect from them ?

Go to Jobstreet Singapore portal, click on JOBS IN SINGAPORE FOR FOREIGNERS.


Vote out the PAP</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>angry_one </p>
<p>Just ask yourself this question.   If even the government agencies are offering jobs DIRECTLY to foreigners, what else can we expect from them ?</p>
<p>Go to Jobstreet Singapore portal, click on JOBS IN SINGAPORE FOR FOREIGNERS.</p>
<p>Vote out the PAP</p>
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		<title>By: angry_one</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/12/sporeans-and-foreigners-both-paying-the-price/comment-page-2/#comment-128913</link>
		<dc:creator>angry_one</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:28:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=3838#comment-128913</guid>
		<description>Just a bloody wayang. If the PAP is serious about protecting local workers from dismissal, all they need to do is implement minimum wage, or even a levy on foreign workers. Once they cost as much as locals, let&#039;s see who is asked to go first!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a bloody wayang. If the PAP is serious about protecting local workers from dismissal, all they need to do is implement minimum wage, or even a levy on foreign workers. Once they cost as much as locals, let&#8217;s see who is asked to go first!</p>
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		<title>By: TuraiKiller</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/12/sporeans-and-foreigners-both-paying-the-price/comment-page-2/#comment-57643</link>
		<dc:creator>TuraiKiller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=3838#comment-57643</guid>
		<description>Indeed there should be a Maximun and Minimun salary in place at the range from S$1,500 lowest to highest at S$300,000. Why are we paying someones world higher saLARY about 3millions plus not to mention the allowances, bounus, profit sharings. A world smallest national with local citizens around 3millions populations excluded PRs &amp; foreigners. It is ready a huge burden for their peoples to paid. All the MPs monthly miting session allowances (approx. $13k) should be removed. Look US Presidens only taking US$500K ++, for their county side and populations, it must be a big joke!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed there should be a Maximun and Minimun salary in place at the range from S$1,500 lowest to highest at S$300,000. Why are we paying someones world higher saLARY about 3millions plus not to mention the allowances, bounus, profit sharings. A world smallest national with local citizens around 3millions populations excluded PRs &amp; foreigners. It is ready a huge burden for their peoples to paid. All the MPs monthly miting session allowances (approx. $13k) should be removed. Look US Presidens only taking US$500K ++, for their county side and populations, it must be a big joke!</p>
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		<title>By: The Singapore Daily &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Weekly Roundup: Week 50</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/12/sporeans-and-foreigners-both-paying-the-price/comment-page-2/#comment-39787</link>
		<dc:creator>The Singapore Daily &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Weekly Roundup: Week 50</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2008 02:58:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=3838#comment-39787</guid>
		<description>[...] to the Local Worker - groundnotes: Protecting the Singaporean Middle Class? [Recommended] - TOC: S’poreans and foreigners both paying the price [Recommended] - To Fix a Mocking Peasant: The 3 Tenets of Great Governance - TOC: Tripartism not [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to the Local Worker &#8211; groundnotes: Protecting the Singaporean Middle Class? [Recommended] &#8211; TOC: S’poreans and foreigners both paying the price [Recommended] &#8211; To Fix a Mocking Peasant: The 3 Tenets of Great Governance &#8211; TOC: Tripartism not [...]</p>
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		<title>By: SZ</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/12/sporeans-and-foreigners-both-paying-the-price/comment-page-2/#comment-39320</link>
		<dc:creator>SZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:46:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=3838#comment-39320</guid>
		<description>85) Do You Mean ? 

 you are wrong about unemployment rate relation with labor cost

Unemployment rate depends on the global economy, and is related to labor cost...if labour cost increase, a company with that fix amount of money can only hire lesser staff, although they can opt pay more to hire the same amount of workers as before labour cost increase, but how many of those company will do that? this type of scenario is known as classical unemployment and in short, it is link to the marginal product of labour (micheal palmer)

current rise in prices of product is caused by the depreciation of SGD vis-a-vis USD. the price of import has been increasing due to a weakening SGD...however that is unavoidable in order to boost export - linking to GDP, to boost growth, weakening of currency is needed. however, the one taking the blunt will be the consumer as price of import increase with weaken SGD.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>85) Do You Mean ? </p>
<p> you are wrong about unemployment rate relation with labor cost</p>
<p>Unemployment rate depends on the global economy, and is related to labor cost&#8230;if labour cost increase, a company with that fix amount of money can only hire lesser staff, although they can opt pay more to hire the same amount of workers as before labour cost increase, but how many of those company will do that? this type of scenario is known as classical unemployment and in short, it is link to the marginal product of labour (micheal palmer)</p>
<p>current rise in prices of product is caused by the depreciation of SGD vis-a-vis USD. the price of import has been increasing due to a weakening SGD&#8230;however that is unavoidable in order to boost export &#8211; linking to GDP, to boost growth, weakening of currency is needed. however, the one taking the blunt will be the consumer as price of import increase with weaken SGD.</p>
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		<title>By: ys-lai</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/12/sporeans-and-foreigners-both-paying-the-price/comment-page-2/#comment-39287</link>
		<dc:creator>ys-lai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 07:57:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=3838#comment-39287</guid>
		<description>Market economy always driven by supply and demand and Or by WRONG government policy.

Freeflow (almost) of CHEAP unskilled foreign labour; repeat not foreign talent...... depressed the unskilled labour market in Singapore.

There is not incentive for company to upgrade the skill or quality of work since CHEAP unskilled foreign labours is available. This WRONG policy also threaten the local low skilled workers to fight for low salary job i.e. less than $600/mth for cleaner etc

COE bidding system for company wanted to employ foreign labours similar to COE system for car.

Labour Cert of entitlement (In company&#039;s name not individual foreign worker&#039;s name)  bid price start at $250/mth valid for 2 -3 yrs.   Same as COE of the car there is limited quota each month.  The highest bidders get the COE to import foreign labour to work in Singapore.  If demand is high and quota is limited, perhaps a cleaner&#039;s COE can be as high as $10,000.   If company desperately need to hire foreigners and can&#039;t find local to wash his dish. Company have to pay $10,000/mth for dish washer.  I am sure many local will want to wash dish for $10,000 instead of $600 per month now. 

We have problem solved  - WHY go through the NONSENSE of retraining programme to wash dish????    In Western country due to high labour cost; all the expensive dish washer machine is doing the job except Singapore. 

I am not talented local that have make such reccommendation to MOM year ago but throw out as stupid idea.  That&#039;s the attitude of our TOP civil servant with a fat pay check!!!!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Market economy always driven by supply and demand and Or by WRONG government policy.</p>
<p>Freeflow (almost) of CHEAP unskilled foreign labour; repeat not foreign talent&#8230;&#8230; depressed the unskilled labour market in Singapore.</p>
<p>There is not incentive for company to upgrade the skill or quality of work since CHEAP unskilled foreign labours is available. This WRONG policy also threaten the local low skilled workers to fight for low salary job i.e. less than $600/mth for cleaner etc</p>
<p>COE bidding system for company wanted to employ foreign labours similar to COE system for car.</p>
<p>Labour Cert of entitlement (In company&#8217;s name not individual foreign worker&#8217;s name)  bid price start at $250/mth valid for 2 -3 yrs.   Same as COE of the car there is limited quota each month.  The highest bidders get the COE to import foreign labour to work in Singapore.  If demand is high and quota is limited, perhaps a cleaner&#8217;s COE can be as high as $10,000.   If company desperately need to hire foreigners and can&#8217;t find local to wash his dish. Company have to pay $10,000/mth for dish washer.  I am sure many local will want to wash dish for $10,000 instead of $600 per month now. </p>
<p>We have problem solved  &#8211; WHY go through the NONSENSE of retraining programme to wash dish????    In Western country due to high labour cost; all the expensive dish washer machine is doing the job except Singapore. </p>
<p>I am not talented local that have make such reccommendation to MOM year ago but throw out as stupid idea.  That&#8217;s the attitude of our TOP civil servant with a fat pay check!!!!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: pugdragon</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/12/sporeans-and-foreigners-both-paying-the-price/comment-page-2/#comment-39273</link>
		<dc:creator>pugdragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 07:18:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=3838#comment-39273</guid>
		<description>I do believe there is a need for maximum wages limit... For ministers! They insist on gettin&#039; &quot;market rates&quot; for their wages, &#039;cos they think they&#039;re delivering worldclass leadership to the country. Well, we peasants ain&#039;t well taken care of enough. Not to mention poorer peasants. Bring on the next contestant!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do believe there is a need for maximum wages limit&#8230; For ministers! They insist on gettin&#8217; &#8220;market rates&#8221; for their wages, &#8216;cos they think they&#8217;re delivering worldclass leadership to the country. Well, we peasants ain&#8217;t well taken care of enough. Not to mention poorer peasants. Bring on the next contestant!</p>
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		<title>By: Do You Mean ?</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/12/sporeans-and-foreigners-both-paying-the-price/comment-page-2/#comment-39213</link>
		<dc:creator>Do You Mean ?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 02:30:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=3838#comment-39213</guid>
		<description>81) alphaville on December 11th, 2008 3.29 am 

Do you mean :

1. That min wage may raise the labor cost and thus lower employment rate and may lead to higher consumer prices and so you CONCLUDE that min wage cannot work and should not be implemented?

I have news for you:

1. Consumer price : It will rise regardless of min wage. 

2. Labor cost : why you don&#039;t focus on Rental cost 1st ? Why you don&#039;t focus on greed 1st ? Why CEOs getting so much? 

3. Unemployment rate : that depends on the world economy, not labor cost. Successful companies will thrive even in economic slowdown. They continue to pay employees good salaries. So, Unsuccessful companies incompetent to survive will still Retrench and Cut salaries and Cut staff due to its incompetencies or failures or boo boo in investments that are not their core competencies. 

In conclusion, I like to let you know that there is yet a min wage figure set. How do you know that will cause more problems than bring good effects?  How would you protect the lowest income earners are not exploited by businesses who can only resort to cutting salaries to survive and in order for their CEO or boss to satisfy his hunger for more luxuries even when these bosses are incompetent of capturing the market or producing top notch products and services?

Without min wage, social problems can result. Desperate, people can commit crimes to get more money. You think for the corporations. Have you thought from a national perspective?

There is a need for min wage, not max wage. To derive Min wage I would think the cost of living will be considered and this wage must allow a typical lowest wage earner to live a life with some decency. This also relates to human rights - the right to live in dignity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>81) alphaville on December 11th, 2008 3.29 am </p>
<p>Do you mean :</p>
<p>1. That min wage may raise the labor cost and thus lower employment rate and may lead to higher consumer prices and so you CONCLUDE that min wage cannot work and should not be implemented?</p>
<p>I have news for you:</p>
<p>1. Consumer price : It will rise regardless of min wage. </p>
<p>2. Labor cost : why you don&#8217;t focus on Rental cost 1st ? Why you don&#8217;t focus on greed 1st ? Why CEOs getting so much? </p>
<p>3. Unemployment rate : that depends on the world economy, not labor cost. Successful companies will thrive even in economic slowdown. They continue to pay employees good salaries. So, Unsuccessful companies incompetent to survive will still Retrench and Cut salaries and Cut staff due to its incompetencies or failures or boo boo in investments that are not their core competencies. </p>
<p>In conclusion, I like to let you know that there is yet a min wage figure set. How do you know that will cause more problems than bring good effects?  How would you protect the lowest income earners are not exploited by businesses who can only resort to cutting salaries to survive and in order for their CEO or boss to satisfy his hunger for more luxuries even when these bosses are incompetent of capturing the market or producing top notch products and services?</p>
<p>Without min wage, social problems can result. Desperate, people can commit crimes to get more money. You think for the corporations. Have you thought from a national perspective?</p>
<p>There is a need for min wage, not max wage. To derive Min wage I would think the cost of living will be considered and this wage must allow a typical lowest wage earner to live a life with some decency. This also relates to human rights &#8211; the right to live in dignity.</p>
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		<title>By: I speak my mind</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/12/sporeans-and-foreigners-both-paying-the-price/comment-page-2/#comment-39212</link>
		<dc:creator>I speak my mind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 02:30:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=3838#comment-39212</guid>
		<description>#73 aiyoyo

Bus companies are also employing PRC as bus drivers ! (oop, sorry, now they are know as bus captain. Ata  sikit. ) .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#73 aiyoyo</p>
<p>Bus companies are also employing PRC as bus drivers ! (oop, sorry, now they are know as bus captain. Ata  sikit. ) .</p>
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		<title>By: I speak my mind</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/12/sporeans-and-foreigners-both-paying-the-price/comment-page-2/#comment-39211</link>
		<dc:creator>I speak my mind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 02:18:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=3838#comment-39211</guid>
		<description>the truth is always cruel, the root of the problem is not just confine to our low wage citizens. It is now spreading to the midle income citizens like myself.

I have it near impossible for one to get a so call &quot;long term career&quot; as the phase job security seem to be a taboo!  No one seem to be able to hold a job for long - thanks to term such as restructuring, contract employment etc . (to me, all these words = expliotation.  It is hard to believe that corporate just treat employees as numbers which can be manipulated when the tile is not on their side!

How can one plan for his future such as having a home (HDB) which is a committment for 20 to 30 years when he cannot even be sure he will be able keep his job for 5 years?  Not to mention if you intent to have kid(s)!

Unless u r one of  the top wage earner,  the issue of high inflation, ever increasing public transport, ERP, means testing for medical are always there to test you skill of adaptation.  

Next  you will hv to compete with FT, FW who are here so that &quot;we can keep our jobs&quot; ,  they also keep wages low - All in the name of keeeping ourselve &quot;competitive&quot;

Suddenly , we realised that what we used to believe in are all wrong, No one talk about growing with company, loyalty etc etc.

Retirement? u can forget about it as most of my CPF would be used to maintain the mandatory minimum sum to be set aside.

So SAD!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the truth is always cruel, the root of the problem is not just confine to our low wage citizens. It is now spreading to the midle income citizens like myself.</p>
<p>I have it near impossible for one to get a so call &#8220;long term career&#8221; as the phase job security seem to be a taboo!  No one seem to be able to hold a job for long &#8211; thanks to term such as restructuring, contract employment etc . (to me, all these words = expliotation.  It is hard to believe that corporate just treat employees as numbers which can be manipulated when the tile is not on their side!</p>
<p>How can one plan for his future such as having a home (HDB) which is a committment for 20 to 30 years when he cannot even be sure he will be able keep his job for 5 years?  Not to mention if you intent to have kid(s)!</p>
<p>Unless u r one of  the top wage earner,  the issue of high inflation, ever increasing public transport, ERP, means testing for medical are always there to test you skill of adaptation.  </p>
<p>Next  you will hv to compete with FT, FW who are here so that &#8220;we can keep our jobs&#8221; ,  they also keep wages low &#8211; All in the name of keeeping ourselve &#8220;competitive&#8221;</p>
<p>Suddenly , we realised that what we used to believe in are all wrong, No one talk about growing with company, loyalty etc etc.</p>
<p>Retirement? u can forget about it as most of my CPF would be used to maintain the mandatory minimum sum to be set aside.</p>
<p>So SAD!</p>
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		<title>By: loop</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/12/sporeans-and-foreigners-both-paying-the-price/comment-page-2/#comment-39204</link>
		<dc:creator>loop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 01:43:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=3838#comment-39204</guid>
		<description>Not all foreign workers will be retrench as some of their pay packages are lower than locals, hence the preference to retain some foreign workers.  Moreever, there are alot of contract &amp; temp workers in bigger companies.  Once their contract expires, the company can choose not to renew their contracts thus letting them go &amp; protecting the jobs of permanent staff.  Minimum wage, if to impose, should apply to both local &amp; foreign workers, so foreign workers will not be view as a cheaper alternatives to locals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not all foreign workers will be retrench as some of their pay packages are lower than locals, hence the preference to retain some foreign workers.  Moreever, there are alot of contract &amp; temp workers in bigger companies.  Once their contract expires, the company can choose not to renew their contracts thus letting them go &amp; protecting the jobs of permanent staff.  Minimum wage, if to impose, should apply to both local &amp; foreign workers, so foreign workers will not be view as a cheaper alternatives to locals.</p>
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		<title>By: alphaville</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/12/sporeans-and-foreigners-both-paying-the-price/comment-page-2/#comment-39179</link>
		<dc:creator>alphaville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 19:29:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=3838#comment-39179</guid>
		<description>Hi Mr Tan Kin Lian, 

I do not agree that one can simply conjure a number and consider that as the  minimum subsistence wage, I am sure you have your justification, would you like to elaborate this figure in your blog? 

I think a sound methodology is to adopt the median income of Singapore residents a reference, using a measurement of based on disposable income to decide this figure.

Also understand the stance of those who disagree. Some of which are valid consideration. 

By imposing min. wage, it might raise the cost of labour, would it bring about more unemployment in this category?

Young people without qualification or experience. Will they have a harder time getting traction on the job market? 

If labour cost is to increase, will we have to accept this cost being passed on to consumer?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Mr Tan Kin Lian, </p>
<p>I do not agree that one can simply conjure a number and consider that as the  minimum subsistence wage, I am sure you have your justification, would you like to elaborate this figure in your blog? </p>
<p>I think a sound methodology is to adopt the median income of Singapore residents a reference, using a measurement of based on disposable income to decide this figure.</p>
<p>Also understand the stance of those who disagree. Some of which are valid consideration. </p>
<p>By imposing min. wage, it might raise the cost of labour, would it bring about more unemployment in this category?</p>
<p>Young people without qualification or experience. Will they have a harder time getting traction on the job market? </p>
<p>If labour cost is to increase, will we have to accept this cost being passed on to consumer?</p>
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		<title>By: Tan Soon Huat</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/12/sporeans-and-foreigners-both-paying-the-price/comment-page-2/#comment-39157</link>
		<dc:creator>Tan Soon Huat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 15:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=3838#comment-39157</guid>
		<description>I would like to raise my concern about the 1st world we are in now. 

1. Singapore - 1st world. 
    Also, pro Business.  Not sure is there any country more pro business than it is. 

   1st world - 1st world cost of living and this cost is rising or will surely rise further. By how much more? Not sure.

   Pro Business - in a sense it means as competitively low employee salary as possible. Also, it  allows employers like MNCs and local SMEs to hire many many foreigners. Excellent policies that  foreign workers must be enjoying and grateful for.  Employers happy about these policies. Not sure how employers think of cpf, however. 

  It is then quite obvious that this will drive down salaries on average for the lower to middle class workers.   

 Retrenchments and Poor Job Market and Competition among talents -  there are locals who have rare or excellent skills or high market value that makes them less affected by these factors and command high 1st world salaries. But these are in small numbers. The top few percent.  The rest, unfortunately, are 
affected by foreign workers directly or indirectly. 

In other words, I find that there is something not so right. While we have progressed to 1st world status, on paper, I do not see that  the majority salaries have or will go up to 1st world, in tadem with the cost of living.

While people need to work hard, study hard and upgrade, and be more 
capable than foreign workers to command more, the FACT remains, many 
are not in the top few percent. These people can be replaced by Foreigners. Generally, what skills does foreigners not have?  Why should MNCs and even 
local companies hire a citizen, in terms of skills? Ok, there may be some jobs but generally, foreigners can replace locals, skills wise. 

Agree?  How many foreigners can be hired? How long does it take to 
convert from foreigner to PR (also foreigner with long term visa)? 

See what  I am talking about?

While it is an achievement to have reached 1st world status, I am 
concerned that the majority MAY NOT BE READY for it in terms of 
skills, exposure, mentality. Also , I am concerned about the engines 
of growth - rely on Gambling and Resorts? F1 ? That is the way to 
go? Any Assurance it will work? The Fact remains, majority are not 
born with silver spoon or can inherit a business from their parents 
or have rich relatives to help them get cushy jobs or have career 
paths planned decades in advance for them. They have to compete with mostly talents from 3rd worlds and yet need more salary in order to have a family here.

Regardless of all the Contraints or Excuses, SOLUTION need to be 
provided to Bring the Majority to 1st world level in terms of (and 
not limited to):

1. Job Opportunities (what kinds of 1st world jobs are created?), Skills (education system plays a big role), Salary, Competency, Productivity

2. QUALITY of LIFE  &lt;- especially important 

3. Cost of Living

4. Safety - are there more crimes now than before? more secured? 

5. Accountability - Charities

6. Freedom of Speech and Expression

7. etc. you name it</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to raise my concern about the 1st world we are in now. </p>
<p>1. Singapore &#8211; 1st world.<br />
    Also, pro Business.  Not sure is there any country more pro business than it is. </p>
<p>   1st world &#8211; 1st world cost of living and this cost is rising or will surely rise further. By how much more? Not sure.</p>
<p>   Pro Business &#8211; in a sense it means as competitively low employee salary as possible. Also, it  allows employers like MNCs and local SMEs to hire many many foreigners. Excellent policies that  foreign workers must be enjoying and grateful for.  Employers happy about these policies. Not sure how employers think of cpf, however. </p>
<p>  It is then quite obvious that this will drive down salaries on average for the lower to middle class workers.   </p>
<p> Retrenchments and Poor Job Market and Competition among talents &#8211;  there are locals who have rare or excellent skills or high market value that makes them less affected by these factors and command high 1st world salaries. But these are in small numbers. The top few percent.  The rest, unfortunately, are<br />
affected by foreign workers directly or indirectly. </p>
<p>In other words, I find that there is something not so right. While we have progressed to 1st world status, on paper, I do not see that  the majority salaries have or will go up to 1st world, in tadem with the cost of living.</p>
<p>While people need to work hard, study hard and upgrade, and be more<br />
capable than foreign workers to command more, the FACT remains, many<br />
are not in the top few percent. These people can be replaced by Foreigners. Generally, what skills does foreigners not have?  Why should MNCs and even<br />
local companies hire a citizen, in terms of skills? Ok, there may be some jobs but generally, foreigners can replace locals, skills wise. </p>
<p>Agree?  How many foreigners can be hired? How long does it take to<br />
convert from foreigner to PR (also foreigner with long term visa)? </p>
<p>See what  I am talking about?</p>
<p>While it is an achievement to have reached 1st world status, I am<br />
concerned that the majority MAY NOT BE READY for it in terms of<br />
skills, exposure, mentality. Also , I am concerned about the engines<br />
of growth &#8211; rely on Gambling and Resorts? F1 ? That is the way to<br />
go? Any Assurance it will work? The Fact remains, majority are not<br />
born with silver spoon or can inherit a business from their parents<br />
or have rich relatives to help them get cushy jobs or have career<br />
paths planned decades in advance for them. They have to compete with mostly talents from 3rd worlds and yet need more salary in order to have a family here.</p>
<p>Regardless of all the Contraints or Excuses, SOLUTION need to be<br />
provided to Bring the Majority to 1st world level in terms of (and<br />
not limited to):</p>
<p>1. Job Opportunities (what kinds of 1st world jobs are created?), Skills (education system plays a big role), Salary, Competency, Productivity</p>
<p>2. QUALITY of LIFE  &lt;- especially important </p>
<p>3. Cost of Living</p>
<p>4. Safety &#8211; are there more crimes now than before? more secured? </p>
<p>5. Accountability &#8211; Charities</p>
<p>6. Freedom of Speech and Expression</p>
<p>7. etc. you name it</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: anthony</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/12/sporeans-and-foreigners-both-paying-the-price/comment-page-2/#comment-39156</link>
		<dc:creator>anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 15:48:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=3838#comment-39156</guid>
		<description>from my personal work experience, many foreigners actually work for few years and try to migrate to Europe or USA. No matter how much they are unhappy with the work etc, they bear it cos back home, the population is so large, they cannot compete and hence they come to Sg. to work. I would not said that all of them are incompetent but then the policies we have are at the expense of the local thou. Nevertheless, foreigners are indeed important to our small economy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>from my personal work experience, many foreigners actually work for few years and try to migrate to Europe or USA. No matter how much they are unhappy with the work etc, they bear it cos back home, the population is so large, they cannot compete and hence they come to Sg. to work. I would not said that all of them are incompetent but then the policies we have are at the expense of the local thou. Nevertheless, foreigners are indeed important to our small economy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tan Kin Lian</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/12/sporeans-and-foreigners-both-paying-the-price/comment-page-2/#comment-39155</link>
		<dc:creator>Tan Kin Lian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 15:34:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=3838#comment-39155</guid>
		<description>Hi Gerald (#76)

I carried out a poll at my blog. 150 people replied. 73% support a minimum wage policy. 20% disagree. 7% are undecided.

I presented the same reasoning set out in #52. Someone said that $10 per hour may be too high. On reflection, I agree. Maybe $8 per hour ($8X8X20 = $1260 per month) may be a good starting point.

Previously, most people argued as a minimum wage policy. They repeated the arguments put forward by our government leaders. Now, many people are convinced on the need for this safeguard. They are now aware about how bad things can get under the free market policy, where the weak and the less educated are exploited.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Gerald (#76)</p>
<p>I carried out a poll at my blog. 150 people replied. 73% support a minimum wage policy. 20% disagree. 7% are undecided.</p>
<p>I presented the same reasoning set out in #52. Someone said that $10 per hour may be too high. On reflection, I agree. Maybe $8 per hour ($8X8X20 = $1260 per month) may be a good starting point.</p>
<p>Previously, most people argued as a minimum wage policy. They repeated the arguments put forward by our government leaders. Now, many people are convinced on the need for this safeguard. They are now aware about how bad things can get under the free market policy, where the weak and the less educated are exploited.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: SZ</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/12/sporeans-and-foreigners-both-paying-the-price/comment-page-2/#comment-39145</link>
		<dc:creator>SZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 15:12:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=3838#comment-39145</guid>
		<description>76) Gerald

Yesh, minimum wages helps, but the reply will be the same...singapore needs to be competitive....so sacrifice yourself and accept what you are having so that there will be more investment in singapore,resulting in growth and a big bonus for we know who.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>76) Gerald</p>
<p>Yesh, minimum wages helps, but the reply will be the same&#8230;singapore needs to be competitive&#8230;.so sacrifice yourself and accept what you are having so that there will be more investment in singapore,resulting in growth and a big bonus for we know who.</p>
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		<title>By: Gerald</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/12/sporeans-and-foreigners-both-paying-the-price/comment-page-2/#comment-39135</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 14:31:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=3838#comment-39135</guid>
		<description>52) Tan Kin Lian - I am beginning to agree with having a minimum wage. Previously, I was of the view that it would push up business costs too much, and will be too inflexible to adjust to changing market conditions. I think both of these can be managed. As you mentioned, there are many components to business costs, and wages are just one of them. The minimum wage could be an amount that is reviewed every year, subject to Parliamentary approval. I also support quotas for locals, regardless of level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>52) Tan Kin Lian &#8211; I am beginning to agree with having a minimum wage. Previously, I was of the view that it would push up business costs too much, and will be too inflexible to adjust to changing market conditions. I think both of these can be managed. As you mentioned, there are many components to business costs, and wages are just one of them. The minimum wage could be an amount that is reviewed every year, subject to Parliamentary approval. I also support quotas for locals, regardless of level.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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