“Town councils’ sinking funds not substantially affected by financial turmoil.”

“For Jurong Town Council, it has not invested in any Lehman—linked products, but explains that it only spends about 18 per cent or S$15 million of its S$84 million sinking funds in slightly riskier products.”

So for Jurong TC, presumably it can lose up to 18 per cent of its $84m sinking funds. Substantial? Define “substantial”. Absolute or relative?

Nuancing.

Crap.

[...] Town Councils Lose $12M Public Funds – TOC: Residents query but PAP town councils keep mum – TOC: Town council investments: Annual reports do not answer questions [...]

Are financial reports meaningful enough to let the hdb leaseholders know in which FI is their money distributed to ? in which other entities have their monies gone to ? Annual reports do not show the info the people want. For example, they want to know how much the rest of the 35% has gone into what FI . Like this, how can they know if there is already known possible problem? For example, if they know they invested in another toxic product then only can people comment. Without relevant info, the people have no basis to question.

Full Disclosure. Lets know what it means in specific details. In general , it means Transparency.

Pun intended: some investors told me, it should be called translucency given that many companies do not really fully disclose and so inappropriate use of the term. ACCA or ACRA or FIDREC care to comment?

I no no lah. I am layman brudder, sisters!

I wanna retire leh! Let me know whats going on!

So lets say these town councils reveal every single bit of detail of their investments, how does that make you or me or the residents a happier lot? When I invest in a unit trust, I buy into a fund manager’s strategy. The fund manager does not reveal to me the exact allocation of the fund. Even if I know the exact allocation, there isn’t much benefit for me, I simply have taken a judgment on the historical performance and any future rewards. Similarly, on a broader perspective, how does revealing all these allocation details help anyone?

Is any of the 35% invested in thingies like citigroup shares or related products?
how about AIG related?
no info, how to comment?

5) Eaststopper on December 2nd, 2008 1.57 pm

well, hearing your rhetoric,
I would say to you that its called basic transparency – why full disclosure required. If this lehman thingie had not exploded into the open, thanks to the meltdown, would the HDB Leaseholders EVER know? (recall: Charity case) Right and wrong is not the main point of discussion now. Maybe later. NOW, its time to know where have all the monies went. If this is private investment institution investing using private people’e own money, no one would question. Not our parsah. Guess who is the Custodian of the S&CC monies?

Sg prides itself as the financial hub. Its lagi more reason to disclose this kind of info that is surely of PUBLIC INTEREST. If its your money, hey, I do give a hoot.

help or not is not the issue. the issue is the need for transparency.
thus, we are not saying there is a problem with their investments made on behalf of the hdb leaseholders.
we are saying it is right to disclose where hdb leaseholders’ monies have gone to. Given that they are so confident nothing wrong done, i fail to see why there is no need to disclose at summarised line item level if not more detailed level.

Its not even about wins or losses. Its basic information of public interest. For example, a financial expert could have advised TC not to invest in such thingies of high toxicity had the info been available to them. Experts could have provided
their words of caution . for example, mr TKL had mentioned when he saw the prospectus or terms , he knew it was toxic.

I urge you to attend transparency 101 for your own education and benefit to you and your family and friends.

the world keeps preaching transparency. This is a rare opportunity for TC to show how transparent can be given that they have no Competitors who may Anticipate its Moves.

I see that you are trying to use 1 reason to justify the need not to have full disclosure. But the basic need for full disclose still stands.

your rhetoric has failed entirely.

regards
selamat wong – I am accountable but need not be responsible.

5) Eaststopper on December 2nd, 2008 1.57 pm
So lets say these town councils reveal every single bit of detail of their investments,..

When I invest in a unit trust, I check the top 10 investments the fund invested in. I believe it is common that the fund shows the top 10 investments. That way, people know better how the fund invest in reality.

Please take note that residents pay TC SCC fees, not paying them to be fund managers. If they do it, we have the right to demand transparency. The transparent and detailed disclosure help to ensure TCs do not make high risk investments. It also allow residents to raise any red flag early before things go further wrong.

How do we know the loss is limited to $12M as disclosed now? What if it become $100M in the next financial reports? It is a real possibility given the huge amount of money TCs invested in equities and unit trusts etc.

Eaststopper,

Please take note that you have a choice of your fund manager, residents don’t have a choice when TC plays fund manager. The next best thing residents can do is demand full disclosure and transparency.

Regards.

in my view, Mah should have been kicked out of cabinent long ago!!

#10
HaHa, In my view, PAP should have been kicked out of ……………. long ago!!

Guys and Gals,

lend me you ears!

maybe we should wait until the economic melting is overs and then ask them reveal the total losses? like this better of nots? the trick now is how long more will the melting be and where is the bottom. if can tahan until then… got me meaning of nots?

Aiyah, TC’s losses are chicken feat. I looked at temasek holding now desperately selling its asset to raise capital, very scared wor….

I think I am setting myself up to be lambasted when I entered my comments earlier. TOC is known for their anti-government rhetoric. Anyways, just to push this string further, pushing for full disclosure is secondary . The more fundamental question we should be asking the TCs are that why do they need so much money, what the funds are used for, and exactly how much return the residents can expect the sinking funds to earn annually.
Trying to judge whether a fund is toxic or not is hugely subjective – we are all Warren Buffets after the meltdown.

14) Eaststopper on December 3rd, 2008 1.46 am
I think I am setting myself up to be lambasted when I entered my comments earlier. TOC is known for their anti-government rhetoric.

=====

I can see that you are making an ANTI-TOC rhetoric , again.
on the contrary, TOC has articles that praise the gov also.
Praise when its due.
Comment when its Time!

You are a sweeping statement machine.

People lambast you because your comparison:

“When I invest in a unit trust, I buy into a fund manager’s strategy. The fund manager does not reveal to me the exact allocation of the fund.”

is also irrelevant.

As someone else had said: you have a choice on who’s your fund manager going to be. The residents in a constituency don’t. All funds have prospectus which contain much more information than what the TC’s currently provide. Which fund doesn’t provide its top 10 holding?

However, you’re also right in that knowing how the TC’s invest is pretty much useless when the residents can’t do anything about it anyway. Especially when the residents are generally not knowledgeable about financial products.

If you can answer the question: “What made the residents so powerless in the first place?” (The answer’s pretty obvious) Then you might understand some of the resentment that has been simmering.

Refer to:

“….For Jurong Town Council, it has not invested in any Lehman-linked products, but explains that it only spends about 18 per cent or S$15 million of its S$84 million sinking funds in slightly riskier products.
Even then, that investment guarantees the principal amount.
The position that we’ve taken is really to be very cautious with our investments because we’re very clear that these are public funds, and therefore we decided to err on the side of being conservative in our investment policy. The public do not have to worry… there will not be enough funds in order to take care of their needs,” said Jurong MP Halimah Yacob. …….”

SO 18 per cent or S$15 million of its S$84 million sinking funds in slightly riskier products which guarantees the principal amount is the KEY MESSAGE. What are they: Equity-linked, Commodity-linked…?

No LB Minibonds. OK, some relief somewhat!

Principal guarantee? Hope so but not until they are disclosed and that degree of transparency I suppose it is much needed.

Hope that they will not turn out to be Principal protect product and in the case of Pinnacle Credit-linked notes series 9 &10, the noteholders who could not distinguished ‘Principal protected’ form ‘Principal guarantee’ shockingly saw their capital went into ashes when the credit event occurred.

What were the intentions of those POWERS had profits been reaped from using service & conservancy charges? Do you think we citizens who are paying service & conservancy charges (SCC) would be notified of their profits (if the crash of the minibonds and Lehman bros didn’t occur)?

Of course not, someone or some people are going to keep quiet and keep all the investment profits cos they think you’re not gonna get anything back from SCC anyway.

One word: dishonesty

Nothing I can do but post my thoughts here and wait to see which individuals are to be made into scapegoats to take the rap.

Yes, well said kelly. Just like the HDB housing now price rocketed like nobody business. Again here, the big junk of profits goes to who? Where is the transparency? and who is behind all these profiteerings? they will never be disclose to the public, because it is illegal.

I checked the Town Council Act a week ago I didn’t see this part till TODAY 5 minutes ago: #40 Power to borrow and #41 Power to investment.

I am appalled at the singapore situations:

1. The actual cost of building a flat is unknown to the public. No one knows!
2. The actual losses of TC is unknown to the HDB leaseholders. No one of them knows!

Everyone who posted here can do only 1 thing : hope for disclosure. But honestly, go to a quiet spot, after lunch, take a deep breath and then ask your inner soul, will you get the answer ?

and there you have it. beyond words can describe.

Thanks for your comments TiredSingaporean & Iba Abi! Yes Iba, no words can describe the feelingA!

P.S. I wouldn’t be surprised if they said that everything they (Town Council) did is within the legal boundaries. And even (if) after they have revealed ‘everything”.

It’s really shocking to many singaporeans to know that all these years the people they trusted and voted to take care of them has infact done so much hidden damages to the citizens themselves. There are already too many hidden things waiting for answers and still many more to surface soon. If all these are not justified, then the people of singapore must now stand united to question the authority without any delay. The truth could be worse when it comes to light. Here, we citizens continue to suffer with more to come, while there, these self proclaimed millionaire elites keep rewarding themselves with the country’s wealth. What sort of country are we living in today? back to communist era?

aiyoyo

so many views/concerns here,

not sure if PEOPLE got a chance to review & help advice solutions?

aiyoyo

Hello to the iba guy.

Patience my friend. The day will come when all will be revealed. Just hope that when that day comes, our National reserves won’t be siphoned off to a remote bank account already. Remember Ferdinand Marcos?

There are too many skeletons in the PAP closet. This is why they have to cling on to power at all cost. The day they lose this grip on power will see all the skeletons running lose. The PAP has already decreed that this must not happen.

Do you all not realise that a revolt is inevitable if things continue the way it does? It is either this generation or the next who will have to do this. Which will it be?

Still my hope is for this never to happen and that power can be transferred from one to another peacefully, lawfully and fairly.

Of course there are many skeletons in their closet. Temasek holdings, GIC, CPF funds, IRA, all these involve big money that we can’t see. Our money. All for them to play around in the global financial market for gains and losses so invisible to us.

but I stop short at revolt. I don’t want to see revolt here as it would be too painful for our own citizens to bear. The Thai’s had it their way and look what happened to their economy. If mass protest were to happen simultaneously in our back yard…Woe..We get screwed within 3 days just for closing the Changi airport for protest.

I just ask Singaporeans for 1 favor :

Read all the comments here
and
tell me
using your most honest words
there is no problem at all.

but if you see a problem,
I hope you take the courage and squeeze out an ounce of responsibility from your heart of stone.

aiyoyo

bukit panjang friends tell me

their TC finance chairman (BBM status one leh),

but still got investment loss…

aiyoyo

I think that one fundamental question that we should ask the Minister is why is there a need fror a large transfer, of about 35 pc to the sinking fund each year. This has resulted in town councils have hugh sinking fund and finding ways how to invest the funds, including into toxic assets. The minister should review the size of the transfer to a reasonable level and this would translate into lower conservancy and service charges.

We seem to have a lot of questions to ask those who run the TCs. Somehow why weren’t these questions raised by the Opposition MPs at the last Parliament? Is it because they are worried that their own TCs may come under scrutiny? I wonder…

[...] Town Councils Lose $12M Public Funds – TOC: Residents query but PAP town councils keep mum – TOC: Town council investments: Annual reports do not answer questions [...]