Patrick Loh / Guest Writer
I would like to share some discomforting experiences I encountered with service staff here, which is a symptom of a larger social issue.
I want to point out what Singaporeans have to put up with.
It seems that wherever we go these days, people don’t speak English anymore. You can hear office cliques conversing in Chinese over lunch tables, people in buses and MRT speaking Chinese. If you walk into almost any retail shop or restaurant, you will be greeted by a Chinese-speaking person, many of whom are handicapped in English. When you call a company these days, expect the operator to speak to you in Chinese. Now and then I get a phone call from survey companies speaking in Chinese. Of course, I quickly slam down the phone. And you see an English channel touting a Chinese show! Isn’t that the ultimate disregard for your audience? Talk about CRM!
Today I went to SingPost to buy a bankdraft and to send it in a registered mail to a school in the UK. What was to be a smooth transaction, requiring little intelligence, turned out to be a half hour of irritation – simply because of a service staff who does not understand how things are done in a civilized society. All because someone does not know the professional, correct, English-speaking way of carrying out a simple task. She spoke a strange form of English (but only very few words) during my 30 minutes’ encounter with her.
The bank draft was to be paid to the UK school. I gave her the envelope, into which I intended to put my bank draft, and indicated to her that the addressee of the bank draft is the school whose name appears on the envelope and ask her to copy down that same name for the bank draft. Instead, she copied down not only the institute’s name but also the words, “The Registrar”, which was also on the envelope, as the addressee of the bank draft.
I interrupted her and said, “The Registrar is not the addressee. The school is the addressee.” She retorted with some frustration, “WHO IS THE ADDRESSEE?” I replied, “The school, not the registrar. Do you address a cheque to a manager or to the company?”. Confusion*@# ensued.
I added, “Just write the school name without the registrar.” On the envelope, the school’s name was written in full together with its abbreviated name in parenthesis. So, I said to her, “Just use the long name and not the abbreviations.” More confusion. Argument ensued.
This is so silly and so unnecessary and it reinforces my personal frustration about what’s going on around us here in Singapore. We were an educated society. Where did all the sophistication and refinement, which Singapore has managed to nurture over the past 30 years, go? Take a walk down town and you can see that it’s all gone. If we had intended to trade our privileges, we certainly traded them for the wrong goods!
What I encountered this morning, is one of the many manifestations of what I would call a cultural regression in our society. Imagine impressionable Singaporean school leavers working side by side with colleagues like these day-in day-out!
What is equally worrisome is that a condescending attitude has already developed among the Chinese-speaking majority. Such speakers usually react with a hint of displeasure and irritation in their voices when the English speaker respond in English. And I am talking about service staff! Something is terribly wrong!
A few months ago, I had the opportunity to hold a conversation with a group of 10 bilingual Singaporeans, who were attending a diploma course in business at a local institute. These are employed and working adults between 20 and 35 years old. I asked all of them if they had heard of the following:
1. Phillip Kotler
2. Edward De Bono
3. Bill Gates
4. Anthony Robbins
5. Star Trek
6. Steve Jobs
7. Michael Porter
8. Tony Buzan
Only 3 of the 10 had heard of Bill Gates. Apart from this, no one else knew these names!
I believe we are losing a great deal more than our competitiveness. And real fast.
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Read also: Singapore moving towards better service standards (Channel NewsAsia).
And: GEMS.
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Questions for the following institutions:
1. Education system : why apathy? why retraining needed ? skill not good enough?
2. WDA : why many singaporeans cannot compete with foreigners? why companies keep using excuse that they will migrate if they cannot lower cost?
3. NTUC : what is the REAL concrete effect of urging employers to retrench foreigners 1st? so far how effective? measurable? how so?
4. TC : what is the high level summaried total loss for all TCs in all products invested ? Not asking for details here.
So many questions in my head its giving me a headache. Could someone please answer my questions.
Let them speak Singlish and not be shy about it…perhaps that will help in the transition…
I am unsure what your main gripe is here. Chinese-speakers? “Non-civilised” Singaporeans? “Non-civilised” Singaporeans who have not heard of Tony Buzan et al?
Patrick, I completely understand your frustration. As someone whos Mandarin is admittedly not as good as I would like (which is a story for another time), I sympathize with your situation.
But as chainsawieldinun pointed out, I think you have a few points that perhaps you need to sort out in your mind.
Your fundamental point of people in general not speaking good english (or, minimally, a standard of which makes for effective operations, which, in this case would be essential) is an area of concern for a nation that is supposedly multi-racial and multi-lingual (with English being the lingua franca)
But you bring up the idea that the Chinese-speaking majority has an air of condescension, and apparently further that point by adding that last paragraph, which is unfairly biased towards a westernised culture.
I don’t deny that perhaps the majority of our conservative, less-worldly of our countrymen are Chinese-speaking, though one might similarly argue that is mostly a function of statistics, in terms of absolute numbers, as well as the people you surround yourself with.
Basically, what I’m saying is this. I think it’s fair to judge that perhaps the less travelled, or less educated are chinese-speaking. But that is, as I have mentioned, more an issue of proportion than anything else. But to insinuate the other way round, that Chinese-speaking people are somehow less worthy of being worked with by your “impressionable Singaporean school leavers” is discriminatory based on language, not to mention the flawed assumptuon that school leavers are impressionable, or have that good a command of English to begin with.
And it’s my personal belief, Ravi, that as our next generations grow up with a weaker command of their mother tongues (purely an assumption, but look at the Chinese dialects. I don’t think I’m very far off), it is imperative to teach people good English. As for the current generations that have not been using English their whole lives, we ought not to leave them behind as well, but minimally expect them to TRY to speak proper English, at least one that works in a business setting such as this.
The problem that Patrick and many others find themselves in is precisely due to the allowance of Singlish in our earlier years, that people have not found it necessary to pick up English in a way that is sufficient for effective communication.
It is an unfair step towards Westernisation, but we cannot stick with the government’s supposed anti-western-ideals excuse because the one great thing that the PAP did, was to empower Singaporeans with English (oh the irony). English is the language of the world NOW, and we can’t wait for Chinese to take its place. (if it ever will, which I highly doubt)
Sorry, minor edit. In the first line of para 6, I meant to say
Basically, what I’m saying is this. I think it’s fair to judge that perhaps the less
travelled, or less educated are MOSTLY chinese-speaking.
The problem is not about speaking chinese or chinese speaking, the real problem here is about our garment keeps importing too many cheap labours from mainland china, they are seen everywhere from office to hawker centres and of course in geylang area. This is the real problem, we are turning the entire nation to be like part of mainland china soon, the rich gets richer, the poor stay poor no matter how hard working one can be, you will still be made poor. Propaganda!
agree. i am pretty fed up with china-born service staffs insisting on speaking Chinese just because i am a Chinese.
for goodness sake, even the blue-collared Banglahs and Thais make some effort to speak some simple English in public.i simply hate this arrogant attitude of foreign Chinese in Singapore of refusing our de facto language. they rather keep to themselves with other China Chinese and live in their own world.
this is happening not only to the foreign workforce but also Singapore’s foreign students of all levels.
as for TV mobile, it should stop broadcasting any programs other than English. Mediacorp claimed they play Chinese shows on TVmobile because Chinese are the dominant race and they are following the guidelines of MDA catering tv programs to the nation populace. utter rubbish, this will just lead to more segregation between Chinese-speaking and the non-Chinese-speaking(Chinese included hahah).
bilingualism still depends pretty much on individuals’ capabilities. most Singaporeans aren’t versatile conversing well in both language.
the only solution i see is access to higher education.
if Singaporeans wants to be truly bilingual, we will need a better education system. the current one is a failure as the locally subsidized universities are denying a high percentage of eligible Singaporean applicants. 80%?
how can a nation of lowly educated citizens be truly bilingual without better education? a diploma is not enough and we all know it.
we should make locally-subsidized universities intake ALL ELIGIBLE STUDENTS like what the polytechnics are doing. at least 5 universities are enough i believe, just like 5 polytechnics.
How could one perform well in his/her work when they’ve only been trained for just a couple of days and put on the job immediately, while the locals in those days have to spend months on the job training. What else can you see in singapore these days, nothing but cheap labours with nice packaging, good for show only.
Patrick, I’m not sure if you had intended for it to be so, but your post comes across as rather elitist and arrogant. As much as the service staff were unable to converse in English, were you not able to converse in Singlish/Mandarin as well? You come across as a well-educated bilingual Singaporean, and if such, why did you not try to communicate your point in another language that they were more comfortable with? It does not seem to me that the service staff were deliberately being difficult in not bothering to understand what you say. You knew that she spoke only “very few words”. Having already realised this, shouldn’t you have tried other means of communicating?
Granted, I am aware that service staff are held to high standards of expectation, especially given how Singapore has huge numbers of English-speaking tourists coming from all over. There is hence a need for service staff to be conversant in English, as you say. However, it is not easy for one to simply switch to another, “official” language as part of your job, especially if you are unfamiliar with it. I also believe that there are more important standards to uphold, such as being polite, sincere, and approachable in your demeanour. More importantly, I don’t see the concrete link between speaking English and “sophistication and refinement”, as you have pointed out. Such a notion simply smacks of condescension and arrogance. Though I value the importance of good language ability, I don’t think that anyone should see differences in linguistic ability as a basis for pride or scorn.
hello wei
isn’t bank drafts supposed to be written in English? conversing in Chinese in this instance will cause further confusion and i don’t see whats wrong with Patrick’s English. very much like instruction manual, direct and concise.
the service staff herself is at fault for showing frustration at any times. let me reiterate the word “service”.
anyway i agree on the part between English and sophistication. Chinese newspaper are pretty high level in explaining politics, science and what-have-you. English doesn’t makes us any smarter, it is a medium of language after all.
Patrick’s point is about foreign workers digressing the language capability of local workers. i believe he has merits in that.
#7 Alex,
There is not enough effort made to integrate these communities. It will be a serious issue in the future.
What’s your drift here? That our society being more Chinese speaking would
become regressive? Yes I agreed that English should be the working language
but if people choose to use another language or even Singlish to converse which we could undertand and speak, then why should we complain? If my Indian and Malay friends can make the effort to learn and speak Chinese, aren’t you ashame
you can’t spare the effort to accomodate them?
Make no mistake, with China coming out this century, you be glad that Chinese
(Mandarin) in widely spoken here.
Let’s put it this way, If Swahili were to become a major language, I am prepare
to learn that.
Just for your info, I am even Chinese
#11 CelluloidReality
from anecdotal evidences, it is already a serious issue to me now. well, or maybe depends on how one defines “serious”.
locals showing disdain for foreign students/workers…
avoiding serangoon road and little india…
English-Chinese language everyday conflicts…
foreign workers and some PRs refusal to follow Singapore social norm e.g. speaking loudly and holding hands…
the cracks are showing, the people from both sides are angry and the government is making things worse by opening up the floodgates. a recipe for disaster?
p.s. #10 alex8787 is me too.
my last post
Just for your info, I am not even Chinese
Teach proper English to service staff? whether foreign or local people, the English standard in Sg is not very good. You have to be comfortable in Singlish to be able to communicate properly in Sg.
SOME English teachers are not very good in English themselves, how do you expect them to teach young kids English. We need more quality English teachers in schools. But thats besides the point of the story.
I do agree with #7 Alex on the attitudes of foreign Chinese. They are more and more of them with such nonchalance to our Singapore society. Its as if they are on a march to force Singapore to be in cultural regression and behave as if it is part of China.
Hi Folks;
please allow me to relate my experiences as a Singaporean born in 1951.
As kids, my parents imparted whatever knowledge to us in our native dialect and we communicate with others mainly in their languages and dialects. We had little or no problem either to conversate or quarrel. Living was simple and happy.
Somehow, the British Colonial Master got the Then Locals Chinese to ‘cong yang’, meaning the Locals began to feel the English Language as superior.
Despite Philanthropists liked Tan Lark Sai, Lee Kwong Chian setting up Chinese Schools and Localised Arabs setting Madrasahs for Arab and Jawi Learnings.
From what I saw and experienced myself, the British then hardly infered with Language Matters, in fact most street signs and official documents did have different Languages. BROADCASTS, ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT AND COMMON SOURCE OF NEWS AND ENTERTAINMENT, WERE ALL IN DIFFERENT LANGUAGES AND ALL LOCAL DIALECTS WERE AVAILABLE. What was glaring then was, MOST COMPANY SIGNBOARDS WERE IN CHINESE if they were owned and operated by Chinese.
When I was due for Primary School, despite my age I wanted Chinese Medium School. But my mother insisted then that I must go to English Medium School if I were to survive. I fought hard and told her I wanted Chinese Medium Schooling. But contrary to my wish, I was sent to English Medium Shool. I lost much interest in my studies and dropped out before Senior Cambridge Examination.
I was keen about the social developments though poorly educated and was quite awared of the Chinese Language Problems then. In the early 60s, most political activists and politicians were native language-centric (Hougang Constituency seems to uphold such a trait). However, there were Oversea graduated Chinese that returned and got into the Local Political Contests and subsequently even became the Ruling Regime.
From then on, the Language Issue developed into a vicious political issue.
Vernaculars were relegated to Second Language Status and English Language became the Official Working Language and some even extolled it to be ‘the survial language’ liked what my mother told me.
Twenty over years down the road later, the Singaporean Chinese goes about complaining about other Chinese in HongKong, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand and elsewhere, that Chinese are not able to communicate in English Language. And not only complained, Singaporean Chinese seemed bloody proud that they speak English. Well, as a lowly educated local Chinese myself, I found few good ‘English Users’, but their egoes kill all respect that I can ever give to another fellow Chinese who behave such . But I also frown on anyone of other races who does not know his/her native cultures.
But Singaporean Chinese hardly dare to make complaints in Taiwan and Beijing. Why is this so? The Chinese there will tell the Singaporean Chinese to fly kites and play spiders. I had seen it myself, You may have too.
patriot
This article is alittle confusing. Since you are talking about nation building, it has nothing to do with foreign import from China. Singlish is an icon of a Singaporean. I feel that there is nothing to complain about. However, if you are talking about the service of a new staff whom she is a Singaporean, please do not be so fussy and give her a chance to improve. If you are talking about our education system is a failure, I agree.
My apology;
the word infered should read as interfered in my post(#16).
Yourstruly: patriot
Patrick, I am appalled at this piece of writing which probably revealed more about yourself than you realised or cared for.
I agree that foreigners in a foreign country should make an effort to learn the country’s first language to better communicate and facilitate the day-to-day.
I agree that perhaps these foreigners cling to their own or hold themselves apart, and they might not even be willing to perform in the roles they find themselves in.
However, one thing which you so casually ignore is the fact that Singapore IS a multi-cultural society, and since I’ve been born (and I am 32), I have been surrounded by dialects and ethinic languages.
My parents can speak Malay, Mandarin, Hokkien, Cantonese, Indian (well my dad can) and probably more dialects than I ever will.
I question your world view if you grew up in an English-centric bubble that epitomises culture and learning (which is far from the reality, ie. English equating ‘culture and learning’), I question your idea of what Singapore is. I question your 30 years.
But, this was probably your most revealing statement:
‘simply because of a service staff who does not understand how things are done in a civilized society’
What makes you think YOU live in a civilised society and these people didn’t come from one? Because they don’t speak your language of choice?
[---deleted---], the some language-Nazi-elitist?
You’re right about a cultural regression.
My question to you and those who responded: Who’s the one regressing?
Comments edited by moderator. Don’t get personal, pls.
applause to ray! you have said what i wanted to.
and also to wei and Joel Kang.
what’s wrong with not speaking english? in case you haven’t noticed, chinese is also one of our four national languages. a society with a chinese majority is very likely to keep chinese, or its associated dialects, as a lingua franca.
your anglocentricity is appalling. please go and do some basic sociolinguistic research before writing.
I find as usual this is a difficult situation, truly. I feel whatever Patrick’s views, he did us all a favor by opening things like this up for discussion.
Let me start by saying that I feel that we are all bigots to a certain degree. (not saying of course, we should all go out and discriminate against anyone who isn’t ‘like us’)
I have to admit that though I do make it a point to be tolerant and see everyone, foreigner or not as deserving of equal treatment and tolerance, I do feel annoyed sometimes that we can’t get by any day without hearing someone speak with a mainland accent. (Mind you, I am proud to be a Chinese, and be part of a culture that dates back to the neolithic age, so it is no that I’m a ‘banana’ or something) Many times I stop to ask myself, is it the ‘xenophobe’ in me speaking.
I guess the question that needs to answered then, is, when does our own ‘bigotry’ end, and the real question of ‘are we importing too many foreigners to the extent that it is changing our society for the worse’ begins.
We need to have an honest discussion and not the ‘jobs will go away if we don’t hire foreigners’ cookie-cutter reply.
other questions follow: why is it ’30 years’ of nation building? (isn’t singapore 43?) and what’s wrong with not having heard of tony buzan, et al? does knowing who these people are make one any better?
Although almost all home-bred Singaporeans have gone through formal primary & secondary education, most of their English is usually crippled. I do not know the main cause of this. I realized not many people around me can engage in an English conversation without the NEED to resort to mother tongue or singlish.
I wonder if this is caused by our environment. All along, there’s people around us speaking flawed English.
That’s not my main gripe. I have encountered service staff who do not understand English in a supermarket & snack stall in a shopping mall. I’m talking about young staff, not elderly folks whom I readily converse in Mandarin or Hokkien with.
The one in the supermarket is actually a storeman, so I’d pardon him. The one at the snack stall in a shopping mall sells crepes. Crepes. Western food. The sales assistant looked at me funny when I asked her for a crepe in English. When words came out from her mouth, it’s coated heavily with mainland Chinese accent! How could you hire a non-English speaking service staff in a western snack stall in a modern shopping mall? This is unacceptable!
Oh, the storeman speaks with a heavy mainland Chinese accent too.
In the train & shopping malls, you hear LOUD conversations among Chinarians. English-speaking folks seem to have turned into a minority with the mass import of Chinarians here.
So, is Patrick’s gripe with hiring locals speaking flawed English or Chinarians as service staff? I have no problem with sales assistants speaking singlish to me as I can usually understand them. It would be inappropriate for service staff in more formal environments to converse in singlish, even though locals would still be able to understand them. Being critically handicapped in English for service staff is definitely unacceptable.
i wish everyone would do a bit of sociolinguistics before commenting.
pugdragon, people around us are not speaking ‘flawed english’. please define what english is, and what flawed english is.
and what is wrong with speaking english and also using singlish, MT, etc. this is called code-switching and academic research has found that it is systematic and carries meaning.
>>How could you hire a non-English speaking service staff in a western snack stall in a modern shopping mall? This is unacceptable!
and you also have to remember that not all singaporeans are able to speak english.
as for shops whose staff one is unable to (or refuse to!) understand, let the economic forces decide. if you can’t get what the staff are saying (and vice versa, since communication should be two way), vote with your feet. if enough customers start doing it, the owners will wise up and get some english-speaking staff. if they don’t, it probably means that somebody else has deeper pockets than you… well nothing much you can do about that then.
also, give the staff a chance to learn english on the job. most would be able to pick it up in no time.
I don’t give a fart what language is spoken or how well it is spoken as long as there is mutual understanding. “Langauge” should not create divisions – class or otherwise, nor should one attempt to make judgement – like Mr Loh on people based on what we speak and how we speak.
It sounds more like rude behavior than a ‘problem’ of language in Mr Loh’s case.
And I don’t give a fart’s worth about his #1 to #8 list because likewise Mr Loh may or may not recognise any of my #1-#8 list : P. Diddy, Vanilla Ice, Ma Yingjiu etc?
Zefly, you’re right, this tension won’t go away. Consider the history of our nation and how long it took for the different races to live together. And now our government has decided to introduce foreign elements into what’s essentially a bottle city. I am sure there will be many more issues, resentment, and frustrations to come.
But these as sociological issues that only time can work out. The Singapores who form their stereotypes and hold their prejudices do so perhaps they feel territorial, they don’t like sharing space with foreigners, and bottomline, from xenophobia. Ugly as these issues are, they’re perfectly normal human reactions that you too would face if you were part of an invading body in another country.
What is wrong and I find revolting, is putting yourself on a high horse as Patrick did, going to verbose length to rationalise his bubble world-view, and then couching it as some lament on the state of Singapore and our ‘cultural regression.’
like that how, love your comment! :)
#19 Ray
i think you might have mistaken Patrick’s intentions of being pro-English and anti-Chinese when he is a Chinese himself.
lets just talk about SERVICE STANDARD.
we all agree the service staff should attain a minimum standard English, that is required by the work task. in this case, Patrick did not use bombarding words to pick on the service staff(be she Singaporean or not).
if she doesn’t feel up to task handling non-Chinese-speaking customers like Patrick, she should hand over him to her colleagues instead of showing an unbecoming attitude of a service staff.
furthermore, bank drafts request are everyday-work of SingPost. if she can’t handle a simple bank draft request with simple English, yeah she should go fly kite.
I refer to two quotes in your article
1) You said: “And you see an English channel touting a Chinese show! Isn’t that the ultimate disregard for your audience? Talk about CRM!”
I think there are two reasons why Mediacorp did so
a) Publicity for the Chinese show. Both channels are owned by the same company ffs
b) Maybe it’s a way to interest english speaking people like yourself so that you might actually switch to channel 8. Chinese/Mandarin/Dialects are in a much more precarious position that English is and thus deserve greater promotion.
The issue I have with what you have just said is that you considered this act an “ultimate disregard for your audience”. Naturally, you have assumed that just because you are pissed, everyone else also is. The only people whom I believe will take issue are people from the other races. However, I don’t think you were referring to them in this quote. What this quote has shown however, is that you dislike having Chinese stuff intruding into your English world, reinforcing the general feeling in this forum that you are merely a language-ist (same as racist, sexist etc.)
2) You said: “This is so silly and so unnecessary and it reinforces my personal frustration about what’s going on around us here in Singapore. We were an educated society. Where did all the sophistication and refinement, which Singapore has managed to nurture over the past 30 years, go?”
That was your response to the fact that the girl at Singpost couldn’t understand your instructions. You equated her attitude or her linguistic inability to a lack of sophistication and refinement. If she were “educated” (in your definition), then she’d speak good English and pander to all your whims and fancies. By extension, someone who is “sophisticated” in your view will therefore do the same. So, aren’t you a language-ist?
Another attitude that I can distill from this quote is that you are xenophobic. Since you assumed that Singapore has managed to nurture a level of sophistication and that this sophistication has been eroded in recent years, you have implicitly admitted that the cause of this erosion is due to demographic change. (influx of prc workers). So, aren’t you a xenophobe?
So your article has said a lot more about you than the issue it wanted to address.
It takes two to clap. If you want good and courtess service, please be courtess and polite yourself. Patrick should have given clear and concise instructions. Better still, write the Name and Address clearly on a piece of paper and gave it to her. Surely, this simple gesture on your part would have helped to solve the minor problem. The trouble with many so called educated Sporeans is they expect tip top service in everything. Pay $1 worth of product and expect a $1000 dollars service in return. Many service staff in Spore will tell you that Sporeans think that they have money and can.. bury you.. alive if possible !!!!.
this is madness. lack of english proficiency in service staff = cultural regression in singapore???
the writer also equates low standard of english to lack of sophistication and refinement. lol. i thot lack of refinement meant use of crude language e.g. “Confusion*@# ensued”.
i am concerned about the inundation of singapore with non-english speaking FOREIGN service workers too. but pls, hor, this is NOT regression. this is more like bad business managment coupled to liberal labour policies.
“Pay $1 worth of product and expect a $1000 dollars service in return. Many service staff in Spore will tell you that Sporeans think that they have money and can.. bury you.. alive if possible !!!!.”
Don’t you think that this is already built in our culture – where tension and stress is now the order of the day where things are at competitve breakneck level.
Ask those big big shots up there lah. We pay so much more for everthing so must squeeze somewhere right. Survival mode now lah.
Just pray hard that fate wll not pick you as the one to be squeezed until you are left with one piece of dry worthless skin lah.
It’s very interesting how most of the comments here were so quick to judge Patrick, especially those that bring in the issue of foreign workers. I reread the passage, and I don’t believe he ever mentioned about people from other countries. Please refrain from bringing in whatever biases you have against whomever when they are clearly irrelevant.
That said, I must agree with alex that the key issue is more about service standard and the level of English (and to some degree patience) required of people in the service line. I think some of you have missed the point, in your (considerably elitist) view that we must study sociolinguistics in order to have opinions.
The idea, is not that code switching is wrong, or bad English is wrong (though undesirable. I’m a proud English Nazi), but that precisely BECAUSE of our multi-lingual society, we require a lingua franca, which happens to be English. So those who are in service lines SHOULD have a decent command of the language in order to be able to, you know, do their jobs.
As for the whole elitism thing about the list of names, well, sorry Patrick, as others have also echoed, you WERE being pretty elitist when you said that.
I don’t think this lack of English speaking skills is peculiar to Singapore. Where in Asia can you find people speaking in good english? Nowhere. Most Asians are more comfortable in their local languages, why should we try to change this? Isn’t colonial times over?
Many western visitors commented that Singaporeans have a good command of the English language. I feel this is true after comparing our standard with other Asian countries. Of course, most of us aren’t on par with native English speakers but they don’t expect too much of us. Similarly, we don’t expect westerners to speak our mother tongue fluently.
Being bilingual in Chinese and English, I have no problems with communicating with anybody in Singapore my entire life. Patrick, I think you belong to what we bilinguals call the “Ang Moh pai” i.e. English Speaking Clique who have haboured a condescending attitude towards the chinese educated. With China on the rise, and Chinese language gaining popularity, you are having the tables turned around.
Ermm… look at our leaders, do you think they speak good English?
I doubt so… mee siam mai hum
To sum up in a sentence, “the service standards are compromised by our profit driven economy”.
My experience tells me that Sg has one of the worst service standards of the world.
Staffs have made the following mistakes,
1) bad attitude, maybe being scolded by boss?
2) scrutinizing eyes, as if i’m a thief
3)”expect you to buy something when you have touched their things”
4) hard-selling; keep persuading & pushing non-stop
5) no answer to my questions, blur or sotong i don’t know
World-class service man!
Don – I agree with you. Money is everything in our society. Our economy is not just profit driven “but excessive profits driven”. Shareholders expect high ROIs even during difficult times. Hence, even companies that are still making modest profits will start to retrench staff.
Coming back to service. Indeed our expectations have gone beyond the limits. Many Sporeans expect everything to be fast and perfect. A minor slip in service will invite complaints and of course verbal abuse. As a service staff I have receive my fair share of abuses. Come on, be realistic and be more forgiving. Life is short so make it more pleasant and happy for all. It is already to critisize, but please spare a thought for others who are lee fortunate.
Joel, you said:
That said, I must agree with alex that the key issue is more about service standard and the level of English (and to some degree patience) required of people in the service line. I think some of you have missed the point, in your (considerably elitist) view that we must study sociolinguistics in order to have opinions.
certainly not, we are all allowed to have opinions. BUT some of these opinions are patently ignorant and fallacious. doing a bit of sociolinguistics research will undoubtedly clarify things. eg, the ideas that ‘code switching is wrong’, or that ‘bad English is wrong’.
and doing a bit of sociolinguistics reading would naturally give you a better view of the current situation, and help one make more informed opinions. nothing wrong with that.
i know, because i am a linguistics student.
All I can say is;
A people, gets what they voted for.
hi jun
whether a bit of sociolinguistics help us to see better or not i don’t know. perhaps what i already have a bit of sociolinguistics knowledge but just don’t know what to call it. it doesn’t matter.
even with a depth of sociolinguistic knowledge, it doesn’t put anyone in a position to claim they understand better than anyone.
just like it doesn’t take an engineer to build lego, neither an engineer to predict the collapse of a building.
i know, because i am an engineering diploma holder serving NS.
sorry, your analogy is inaccurate. because sociolinguistics, or understanding language choices, is not the same as predicting a building collapse, or building lego.
(though it is likely that engineering knowledge might let one build better lego towers. i have no engineering knowledge. i do not know.)
sociolinguistics here is broad academic research, and not just, personal experience. because personal experience is just that. studies of many, have often shown things contrary to popular opinion.
i never claimed i understand better than anyone, but i do know better than to spout fallacious opinions. thank you very much.
hi jun
let the public see for themselves what is fallacious and whats not. fallacious opinions will be ignored and self-censored by the online community.
i have not seen anything which is popular and fallacious at the same time, have you?
its right to be wrong, i am fallible. my comments maybe fallacious to a specific audience but appealed to others. beauty of debates isn’t it?
and how will people know that such opinions are fallacious? by reading and research, won’t it?
you haven’t seen any popular but fallacious things? how about homosexuality is a threat to social fabric?
linguistics-wise, how about singlish is bad english? or that people code-switch because their command of languages is poor? (no, singlish is not bad english, it is a variety of english with a different grammar from standard english, though there may be overlaps; no, people codeswitch because different languages carry different meanings to them, eg someone may scold their kids in english to express authority, and speak in malay with their friends to express intimacy and solidarity.)
hi Ray
very well put in thank you.
“You can hear office cliques conversing in Chinese over lunch tables, people in buses and MRT speaking Chinese. ”
What’s wrong with conversing in Chinese Patrick? It’s just people’s choice of lingua franca.
“Where did all the sophistication and refinement, which Singapore has managed to nurture over the past 30 years, go?”
Oh, please Patrick. So you equate conversing in English to sophistication and refinement? How about this.. say you take a beggar off the streets of London. He sure can speak English pretty damn well. Does it mean that he is sophisticated and refined? The language you speak just means that you choose to speak that particular language or you are nurtured to speak that.
And a piece of advice for you Patrick. Why dont you brush up on your Chinese instead of whining about people who are unable to speak english fluently? As they say, when in Rome do as the Romans do.
aiyoyo
buildings here and there, public housing price up, up, and up.
sinking funds sink into investments (by ELITEs)
current + forecast dull economic situations, not sure if commoners being helped?
jobs go elsewhere liao, how?
not sure commoners cpf can be taken out on time, & spend?
can the prices of things be lower & lower & lower?
can commoners daily life less & less & less pressure?
aiyoyo…
Well, I am a chinese and my grandpa *i believe many of yours as well* comes from china to work here in order to have a better life…and when they came here, there may be discrimination against them…
They shouldn’t be stereotyped, but the way they serve people, quite alot of china nationals are giving the “thou are superior them you” attitude and that’s a big no-no in the service line. If Filipinos sales staff can good service, why can’t the chinese nationals too?
Ask some of the ministers to disguised themselves as commoners and have their meals at one of those restaurants who hires these mainland chinese servers and see for themselves, we talk and talk here no use one, but please not Lim Swee Say, he don’t need any cosmetic to screw up more jobs.
Very poor article. Nevertheless, some important issues here. I saw this job ad at a bus stop, calling for people who understood simple English to join them. Funny thing was, there was a Chinese translation of the English right next to the English words.
Why I say this is a poor article: being a good speaker of English does not mean you know lots of social and tv fluff. I wouldn’t expect some Senegalese kid to know what Star Trek is, but Bill Gates… well, yeah. Only because we’re in the Digital Age now.
I suggest the list of words to contain bits of important vocabulary; appliances we use in our daily life and emotions we tend to feel on a daily basis. Far more practical, in my opinion.