Patrick Loh / Guest Writer
I would like to share some discomforting experiences I encountered with service staff here, which is a symptom of a larger social issue.
I want to point out what Singaporeans have to put up with.
It seems that wherever we go these days, people don’t speak English anymore. You can hear office cliques conversing in Chinese over lunch tables, people in buses and MRT speaking Chinese. If you walk into almost any retail shop or restaurant, you will be greeted by a Chinese-speaking person, many of whom are handicapped in English. When you call a company these days, expect the operator to speak to you in Chinese. Now and then I get a phone call from survey companies speaking in Chinese. Of course, I quickly slam down the phone. And you see an English channel touting a Chinese show! Isn’t that the ultimate disregard for your audience? Talk about CRM!
Today I went to SingPost to buy a bankdraft and to send it in a registered mail to a school in the UK. What was to be a smooth transaction, requiring little intelligence, turned out to be a half hour of irritation – simply because of a service staff who does not understand how things are done in a civilized society. All because someone does not know the professional, correct, English-speaking way of carrying out a simple task. She spoke a strange form of English (but only very few words) during my 30 minutes’ encounter with her.
The bank draft was to be paid to the UK school. I gave her the envelope, into which I intended to put my bank draft, and indicated to her that the addressee of the bank draft is the school whose name appears on the envelope and ask her to copy down that same name for the bank draft. Instead, she copied down not only the institute’s name but also the words, “The Registrar”, which was also on the envelope, as the addressee of the bank draft.
I interrupted her and said, “The Registrar is not the addressee. The school is the addressee.” She retorted with some frustration, “WHO IS THE ADDRESSEE?” I replied, “The school, not the registrar. Do you address a cheque to a manager or to the company?”. Confusion*@# ensued.
I added, “Just write the school name without the registrar.” On the envelope, the school’s name was written in full together with its abbreviated name in parenthesis. So, I said to her, “Just use the long name and not the abbreviations.” More confusion. Argument ensued.
This is so silly and so unnecessary and it reinforces my personal frustration about what’s going on around us here in Singapore. We were an educated society. Where did all the sophistication and refinement, which Singapore has managed to nurture over the past 30 years, go? Take a walk down town and you can see that it’s all gone. If we had intended to trade our privileges, we certainly traded them for the wrong goods!
What I encountered this morning, is one of the many manifestations of what I would call a cultural regression in our society. Imagine impressionable Singaporean school leavers working side by side with colleagues like these day-in day-out!
What is equally worrisome is that a condescending attitude has already developed among the Chinese-speaking majority. Such speakers usually react with a hint of displeasure and irritation in their voices when the English speaker respond in English. And I am talking about service staff! Something is terribly wrong!
A few months ago, I had the opportunity to hold a conversation with a group of 10 bilingual Singaporeans, who were attending a diploma course in business at a local institute. These are employed and working adults between 20 and 35 years old. I asked all of them if they had heard of the following:
1. Phillip Kotler
2. Edward De Bono
3. Bill Gates
4. Anthony Robbins
5. Star Trek
6. Steve Jobs
7. Michael Porter
8. Tony Buzan
Only 3 of the 10 had heard of Bill Gates. Apart from this, no one else knew these names!
I believe we are losing a great deal more than our competitiveness. And real fast.
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Read also: Singapore moving towards better service standards (Channel NewsAsia).
And: GEMS.
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50) Saint Splattergut on December 9th, 2008 10.19 pm
Bravo!
Agree with you that ability to speak english does not mean one is wise or smart or knows a lot. Its just a language just like any other language essentially.
Yes, if you can speak english well, good for you. You can even impress people. There are millions of people who do not speak english or know much about english who are more knowledgeable , are smarter and wiser than those who can speak good english but do not know many things. For example, his mother tongue. I have seen many Chinese language who pass A-level chinese with distinction but could not speak mandarin.
correction, I meant : I have seen many who pass their A-level chinese language subject with distinction but could not speak mandarin and write in chinese. and if you happen to speak to them in perfectly simple mandarin, they look at you and say “Sorry, I don’t understand what you talking about. Could you please speak in English?”
I simply don’t understand why people are uncomfortable just because they do not understand what others speak..Is it a Government regulation that everyone must speak English?I am Ok if others converse with me in any languages or dialect that they are comfortable with.If I don’t understand I will even make it a point to learn and admit it is my fault that I do not understand their language or maybe I should ask myself whether I had lost my cultural identity or root..In fact I may even respect him or her for being proud of their mother tongue.Honestly I am trying to speak Singlish as I feel that being a singaporean,Singlish should be the best language to bond us together,if there is a need to speak one common language.Contrary most service staff that I had met spoke to me in English.I don’t feel offended even if they they speak Mandarin or Dialect to me because it prove that I still have that oriental look.Be fluent and proud of your Dialects,learn to speak more languages and you will never have that kind of thinking.To me ,its good to speak good and proper English but I will never feel bad if I cannot speak it fluently.I will only feel shameful if I don’t speak or undertand my own mother tongue.My apology if I had offended anyone.
With regards to more people speaking chinese, I don’t have any problems with the language. In fact, I love languages, and I love being able to converse in a variety of languages (though of course being a singaporean, i would say I am only fluent in english and maybe mandarin?)
I think the main point of this article, though somewhat elitist in its portrayal, is that there has been an influx of foreign workers (those from PRC that the writer seems to be writing about) working in singapore. I would not have a problem with it if it was just a small portion of our workforce. Nonetheless, I feel as though Singapore is losing a little of what we are as a nation, in terms of culture and way of life. There are times when I am eating in singapore and I feel as though I am no longer in Singapore but in China. It is not better or worse. No culture is better or worse. However, as a Singaporean, I guess I would like Singapore to retain our own distinct culture.
Perhaps you might call me a xenophobe? I’m not sure. Though I must stress once again that I am not against foreigners or people of different cultures. On the contrary, I enjoy observing and experiencing different cultures, which is only possible through interactions with people from different backgrounds (in terms of culture in which they were brought up in, race, religion, experiences etc.) I do believe that foreigners have a lot to teach us Singaporeans, but I would like Singapore to remain distinctly who we are – Singapore.
That’s what you get with a 70% Chinese population and our foreign talent scheme importing more overseas friends from China.
The speak good English campaign won’t do any good unless Mediacorp decides to purge all those TV shows that feature non-accented English (i.e. local productions) and replace them with the likes of Gossip Girl. It also won’t work until today’s yougsters learn to watch more BBC and CNN.
Plus, companies should offer higher pay to those who’re English conversant or should disqualify jobs to those who’re crippled with the language.
Of course, until your typical ‘Ah Bengs’ and ‘Ah Lians’ start shooting their vulgarities in English, you won’t know if there’d be change.
I don’t think the topic here is not about chinese speaking or english speaking. The roots of the problem lies in our garment keep importing those cheap chinese labours from the mainland that is now flooding and affecting our society. So, I don’t see the point here arguing among ourselves where the fault is not us but in our garment’s policy.
tiredsingaporean, besides the wrongdoings of our government, the youths of today also place less emphasis on honing their English speaking skills.
I’m not denying that the import of cheap labour isn’t a factor, but Singaporeans ourselves also have to recognize that we’re part of the cause of this ‘cultural regression’. Just look at your average void deck gangsters- do you see them hurling explicits in English?
May I remind you that many of the non-English speaking salesperson/service personnel aren’t imports from China, but rather Singaporeans who put much more emphasis on their mother tongue.
This article definitely reflect a elitist mindset and it is not an article complaining about service standard. The gist of the article is that English is equal to Sophistication, Refinement, and Singaporean.
How silly is such an attitude. Don’t forget the current global financial crisis are cause by English speaking with refined manner American Wall Street CEO with no moral conviction!
English is chosen as a working language in Singapore because it is neutral in a multi-racial society and it is a global language. Malay is our National language and I can say safely that besides the Malay citizen, perhaps 99% of Singaporean couldn’t understand or speak our proper National language.
Chinese would be a future global language judging by the rise in influence of China in world stage. The no. of foreign students learning chinese are growing rapidly worldwide. I would not be surprise that those Singaporeans who only speak English or having the mindset of “English-first” attitude would be the “loser” in near future in terms of employment and business enviroment when the China become a major customers that we served. I don’t think as a customers, the Chinese would look for a service provider or vendor who look down on their language and culture.
Jun, truthfully, how many people around you speak perfect or almost-perfect English? It’s not that I mind singlish, as I understand it perfectly. Maybe it’s just people around me who do not speak good English?
You also have to understand that not all Singaporeans speak Mandarin too. lol. A Malay or Indian fellow mate or a non-Chinese foreigner would have problem buying a crepe from that snack stall whose only salesgirl is a Chinarian who speaks no English.
I believe this title “What happened to 30 years of nation building” is inappropriate. It’s about the standard of English in Singapore. After reading the title at first, I thought this article would be about our first & second generation of Singaporeans who worked hard & led the nation to grow to its current state, only to receive a middle finger followed by a Stone Cold Stunner when they are chucked aside by the gov when they’re old & helpless.
When Asians speak less than perfect queen’s english, people look down or despise them or laugh at them.
Europeans or Japanese people are 1st world people. They have strong national identities and does not rely on English like Asians do due to their strengths.
Many Europeans speak English in a less than perfect way. Yet, I am sure the despisers would not despise them as much.
Its called shallow mindedness, aka IGNORANCE or some say talk-to-my-hand elitist bias.
“You can hear office cliques conversing in Chinese over lunch tables, people in buses and MRT speaking Chinese. ”
What’s wrong with conversing in Chinese Patrick? It’s just people’s choice of lingua franca.
“Where did all the sophistication and refinement, which Singapore has managed to nurture over the past 30 years, go?”
Oh, please Patrick. So you equate conversing in English to sophistication and refinement? How about this.. say you take a beggar off the streets of London. He sure can speak English pretty damn well. Does it mean that he is sophisticated and refined? The language you speak just means that you choose to speak that particular language or you are nurtured to speak that.
And a piece of advice for you Patrick. Why dont you brush up on your Chinese instead of whining about people who unable to speak english fluently? As they say, when in Rome do as the Romans do.
61) Tan Soon Watt: Spot on. Just as if service standard is the issue here, you can just as easily receive stellar service in a foreign country with nothing common between you except a smile.
BTW, I believe the list Patrick posed to his 10 diploma course attendees cannot exemplify or be a benchmark of learning or knowledge because Star Wars is not on the list. Yet he has arbitrarily added Star Trek, because this article is just that, arbitrary. May the Force be with you the next time you pick up the proverbial pen.
Passerby #61
“As they say, when in Rome do as the Romans do.”
You don’t get it. Singapore is NOT a Chinese state. We have many ethnicities and cultures here that do not speak Mandarin (or are not obliged to do so.)
That’s why it is pertinent that the language of the majority does not take on a hegemonic form and become a vehicle of linguistic largesse.
#59 pugdragon,
before we begin, please define perfect english. if you can, you have suceeded where no linguist has. there is no perfect english, because language is continuously evolving.
>You also have to understand that not all Singaporeans speak Mandarin too.
i think i already addressed this in #25.
‘as for shops whose staff one is unable to (or refuse to!) understand, let the economic forces decide. if you can’t get what the staff are saying (and vice versa, since communication should be two way), vote with your feet. if enough customers start doing it, the owners will wise up and get some english-speaking staff. if they don’t, it probably means that somebody else has deeper pockets than you… well nothing much you can do about that then.
also, give the staff a chance to learn english on the job. most would be able to pick it up in no time.’
also, communication is two way. here patrick acts as if the burden of effective communication lies solely on the post office staff. he could have tried the suggestions by Frustrated in #31. if one gets a staff who you cannot understand no matter what one has tried, how about asking for another? instead of slamming down the phone?
#55 X
there is no such thing as non-accented english. everyone has accents. some are more recognizable than others.
#58 Enlightened
english is not a neutral language. that is a myth. right from the beginning when it was chosen as working language, it was already skewed in favour of the english-educated, who were able to ascend the social ladder more easily.
#44 jun
“you haven’t seen any popular but fallacious things? how about homosexuality is a threat to social fabric?”
since when homosexuality is a threat to anyone or any family-building notion?
if i don’t like guys, it doesn’t mean i have to enforce my so-called “normalcy” on the ppl around me.
like Patrick, if he doesn’t like Chinese, he should not expect ppl to be on the same platform as him.
my views are pretty liberal and i support divorce, abortion, homosexuality, atheism and a hundred and one causes you might feel offended. if supporting homosexuality is fallacious to you, perhaps u should do more research on sociolinguistics before raising controversial questions.
i hope u won’t bring in the homosexuality issue here because this is yet another controversial topic. its astounding you raise such an example. leave it alone will you?
64) Loyola
Hi.
I think you didnt get my point instead. I am not saying that everyone should converse in mandarin. Judging from the author’s name, I would like to assume that he’s a chinese. Therefore, I see nothing wrong with him conversing in mandarin to other fellow chinese when they prefer to converse in mandarin. Hence “As they say, when in Rome do as the Romans do.” .
#67
alex, i think you don’t get what i mean.
this is what you wrote in #43:
let the public see for themselves what is fallacious and whats not. fallacious opinions will be ignored and self-censored by the online community.
i have not seen anything which is popular and fallacious at the same time, have you?
SO, since you say ‘you haven’t seen any popular but fallacious things’. therefore, i am bringing in the example of many people believing that ‘homosexuality is a threat to social fabric’ as a popular fallacy. get it? (flip to the straits times forum during the s377a debate to read letters from plenty of people who believe this fallacy to be true.)
precisely, homosexuality is a threat to social fabric is a FALLACY, but a POPULAR one at that.
>i hope u won’t bring in the homosexuality issue here because this is yet another controversial topic. its astounding you raise such an example. leave it alone will you?
i’m using it as an example. what’s so astounding? you’re the one who doesn’t get it.
and for your information, i am as liberal, perhaps even more so than you. i find it astounding that you would interpret my example of a popular fallacy as me thinking ‘supporting homosexuality is fallacious’.
next, sociolinguistics does not deal with whether ‘homosexuality is fallacious’. fallacies fall under the umbrella of argumentation.
with immigrants largely from china over the past 20 years, one wouldn’t be surprised to find out even the well-trained nurse in Gleneagles hospital cannot commuinicate in proper english.
imagine you take 10 minutes to explain to her that you need the pain killer for your wife who had just given birth
its frustating
define proper english please.
and how did you communicate? like what frustrated suggested in #31, or like how the writer of this article did?
food for thought:
i reproduce some quotes from unewolke, an acquaintance who’s a fellow linguistic student and regular on the ST forum, which sum this article up perfectly:
quote one:
we’ve been brainwashed into thinking that a chinese must know mandarin and an indian must know tamil…why did we learn english in the first place? to communicate with different people, whether in our own backyard or otherwise, so why the big hooha just bec it’s not english but one that is supposedly tied to ethnicity, ie mandarin? people who complain they can’t speak mandarin bec they’re not chinese, why should they be speaking english in the first place? if the idea is to communicate with other people, who cares whether it is english (supposedly ethnic-neutral but really not), mandarin, tamil, malay or hokkien?
quote two:
don’t see how chinese (the target of complaint) is at all foreign! it is spoken by a good three-quarters of the local population, mind you, if stats are anything to go by, to varying degrees of fluency.
english is not at all a neutral language, singlish might be closer for that matter. how many singaporeans speak english all the time? nearly no one. even the so-called english experts (look at this DB to get a flavor) don’t…what more the ‘lesser’ ones?
english is more commonly used by the elite at higher ends of the socio-economic/political hierarchy, and i totally rubbish the idea that english is a social glue, a common denominator, so to speak, in s’porean society. that’s a big fat lie the govt wants you to believe in.
i speak english more often than not, and i get funny/dirty looks more often that not. no such “outstanding” problems if i were to blend in and speak singlish.
this is generally true even of the “native english-speaking countries”. whether it be multilingual/cultural/racial north america, the uk, australia or to a smaller extent nz, the only people who speak english most/all of the time are those who are monolingual, not those who are more than monolingual, but what can you expect of the monolingual? that’s the only language he knows, and since they’re the ones who hold the power generally speaking, would you expect them to be pursuing a different language policy? it’s more political than you might expect.
and the same thing could be said of the singaporean bureaucracy. having been educated in english (nearly) all of their lives, can they actually function in any other language? not just basic conversationally.
why is english superior to any other language? there is nothing linguistically, but a lot politically/socio-economically. and that being the case, just admit it.
from here: http://comment.straitstimes.com/showthread.php?t=9296
Perhaps it would help if I clarify.
My point is that Singapore is losing a great deal based on my personal incidents, experiences and observations I have collected over the past 10 years. However, I cited only a few of such examples in my original post.
What are the things we are losing?
1. Competive edge (a result of all the below)
2. Produtivity edge (obvious in service industry for a while but becoming more rampant with influx of foreigners. This will become more and more obvious in other industries as foreigners take hold.)
3. Educational edge (lack of creativity and ability to pass English written exams. This may be due to an increase in intake of foreign students or an increase in local students who are not well verse with the English language or both)
4. Social edge (we are likely to be conversant with Mandarin speaking persons than with English speaking persons, so we are growing less global but more single country-centric. This is bearing out in every sphere of activity in Singapore. Just look at the standard of English coming out in ads, posters, leaflets, TV, community cehtre posters, etc.)
5. Business & Marketing edge (if we do not know who the thought leaders are in the various fields of business, how can we compete in industries?)
My original post was to demonstrate these.
To be realy curt, I do believe we have already lost our edge.
We can start rebuilding them once we recognise that we have lost them. This might take another 30 years. But to acknowledge and accept this openly will be hard, if not impossible, even to individual Singaporeans, let alone the government.
For those who still do not realise this, I hope my posting will make them ponder over the implications for their future. It is now 100% up to the individual to make tings happen for himself.
your title has very little to do with nation building. all chinese, malay, english and tamil are official language of singapore. nothing wrong if more pple are speaking chinese. i think what you meant to say is a common identity of singaporeans. language plays a part but not entirely in nation building. for the last few decades, the english speaking will look down on chinese speaking. these days there is a sense of discomfort with the english speaking as china is rising and gaining much status internationally. wind is just blowing in another direction. nothing much we can do about it. that is world trend.
I thought the followings are consensus among Singaporeans?
(1) We do not practice assimilation policy.
(2) All races must learn two types of common languages:
(2.1) For Chinese: English & Mandarin (not necessary a Mother Tongue but a Chinese common language among various Dialect groups)
(2.2) For Malay: English & Malay
(2.3) For Indian: English & Tamil (or any Indian common language, if any)
(3) For service and any industries, if their customers include all races, they must have sufficient staff who can communicate in English common language.
(4) For general Singaporeans, since they have been educated in English (especially for those who had begun their primary school after 1986) and mostly use it in their working lives, we would encourage them to provide a level-playing field for their own ethnic languages by retaining their usage at home and among their respective community or social circle.
(5) A Chinese can speak Chinese/Mandarin to another Chinese, a Malay can speak Malay to another Malay, an Indian can speak Tamil to another Indian, these are part of Singapore multi-racial culture. We can maintain and achieve these because we do not assimilate any races. We must resist any attempt by any vested interest group of people who try to use any excuses to replace these multi-cultural norms of our society.
If the above are still consensus among Singaporeans, then there is only one problem left, i.e. we have to let all foreign workers know, in Singapore, if you want to communicate with different races, you have to learn and use English common language.
I think it is very snobbish to link “competency” with speaking English. To further suggest that there is “cultural regression” because people prefer not to speak English and are not aware of certain personalities is ridiculous. I do get frustrated with service standards in Singapore but I think your extrapolation and linkage is really a leap of logic. There are indeed many issues to be addressed but I think the way you tried to lump everything together to find commonality is strenuous.
75) Patrick Loh:
“1. Competive edge (a result of all the below)”
Define your idea of competitive edge, quantify it or give us some stats. How much have we lost?
“2. Produtivity edge (obvious in service industry for a while but becoming more rampant with influx of foreigners. This will become more and more obvious in other industries as foreigners take hold.)”
So you’re implying foreigners do not have the right work ethics? Because that is what I would infer if you say we’re losing our productivity edge through the import of foreigners. Perhaps you should try working alongside the foreign labour at construction sites, or the maids for whom a day off is a luxury.
“3. Educational edge (lack of creativity and ability to pass English written exams. This may be due to an increase in intake of foreign students or an increase in local students who are not well verse with the English language or both)”
It’s laughable how you equate English as the be-all and end-all. Rather than a deficiency in the English learning, have you considered our country’s education system has always been deficient due to learning by rote? The very Singaporean culture deprives our students of life experiences, the production plant of a school system deprives our students of any room to stretch their minds.
4. Social edge (we are likely to be conversant with Mandarin speaking persons than with English speaking persons, so we are growing less global but more single country-centric. This is bearing out in every sphere of activity in Singapore. Just look at the standard of English coming out in ads, posters, leaflets, TV, community cehtre posters, etc.)
Your perception of the world seemsto be filtered through English-centric filters, like mass media. Last I checked IIRC, Mandarin was the most widely spoken language in the world, Spanish being the second. Just like the world isn’t America to the Americans, the world shouldn’t be English to you. English as a global language facilitates, but in no way should it replace. You’re advocating a singular world order, and we’ve seen how those have turned out in the past.
5. Business & Marketing edge (if we do not know who the thought leaders are in the various fields of business, how can we compete in industries?)
And you surmised this because you took it upon yourself to come up with a list of 10 must-knows to pose and challenge your diploma course attendees? Or do you have anything else? Because you’re either telling me Yoda possess supernatural business acumen, or Darth Vader is orchestrating gobalisation, or we can all look to the Force to tide us over the next year.
I do not wish this posting to turn into a debate on language or cultural supremacy, which I believe is a topic not worth pursuing for any one.
My simple point is that our global competitiveness can only come about by having a global perspective. And this global perspective can come about only if we assimilate and integrate all languages, all cultures and all advancements. We have to be cosmopolitan if we desire to compete. And the language for a cosmopolitan city is English, not Mandarin, not Tamil, not Malay. I don’t think one needs to debate on this.
English is not just another language. It is a language of universal understanding, of advantage, of comprehension and of global competitiveness. It is the language spoken by thoughts leaders and those who are at the forefront of every sphere of advancement. It is the language used by the top 100 universities in the world, spoken by all political leaders and integrates the world through all media, including the Internet.
If anyone here thinks otherwise, good luck to him!
From your writing, I like to guess that you are Young, aged between 30-32.
For your info,
the internet in Europe is used using eropean languages.
In china or japan, people use the internet using their own languages.
please, english is not the world.
yes, in singapore, it is the de facto.
political leaders in europe speak in their own languages like German or French and yes sometimes in english.
please, think out of the box youngster. for your personal salvation.
Dear Patrick, perhaps you haven’t realised your colonial masters have left us for quite a few decades already. If you wish to grovel before them and drink your earl grey instead of our teh-o, then go live in the UK pls. I’m sure the postal staff over there will understand you perfectly, or perhaps even scorn at you for not speaking English proficiently enough.
As mentioned, there is no link between a ‘cultured’ society and speaking chinese.
What i read was simply arrogance from a snobbish man whom isn’t able to adapt to other languages (perhaps you know no other). Do you still live in your own little castle? Where we come from, the ability to communicate with others will get a job done quickly, regardless of how and what it’s done.
That said, if this whole issue is about service standards, then i agree that there must be something done to improve the situation in Singapore. I don’t care if ther service staff is SIngaporean or not, as long as the required service standard is present.
Allow me to illustrate a simple example. My friend whom just got back from Sweden had lunch at one of their Macdonald’s once and the counter staff told her that the McFlurry machine was out of order, but he insisted on taking her order and proceeded to blend the McFlurry manually. Yes it’s quite amazing, and tiring. He went out of his way to provide service. And Yes it’s just a Macdonald’s counter guy.
Similarly, I once ordered a McFlurry from one of our local branches, and the reply was, “Sorry, machine spoil”.
That, is the difference in service standards.
Mr Patrick Loh
We will lost our competitive edge only if we had lost our cultural root ,think too highly of ourselves and blame others for not speaking a language that we don’t understand or accept.
Whether they are the FTs or the cashier aunties who had no chance to go to school in the past ,we should try to accomodate and let them pick up the language slowly as they too need to survive.
Try to learn as many languages and dialects as possible especially our mother tongues .This will make us more competitive.
English.I admit is an important language but that does not mean that I had to be a Geh ang Mo to survive.
what’s going on around us here in Singapore. We were an educated society. Where did all the sophistication and refinement, which Singapore has managed to nurture over the past 30 years, go? Take a walk down town and you can see that it’s all gone. If we had intended to trade our privileges, we certainly traded them for the wrong goods!
Herein lies your problem. If you believe that we have ‘arrived’ as a first world people and expect first world standards, whether in living standards or service standards, then I am sorry to say that your observation is correct and that we ought to question the 30 years of nation building – in the wrong areas.
But if you are aware that we have yet to arrive and have a long way to go for people standard to meet nation standard, then you will also have been particularly more accepting of the foreigner who annoyed you in your article.
However, less anyone presume that we should accept lower standards, I must quickly add that Singpost, like many other companies these days, have chosen to set lower standards in order to reduce costs. And this is cause for concern.
For this reason, I also agree that Patrick is correct that we have traded downwards whether in language or service or whatever standards we may come across in our daily encounters.
I know it is not nice to talk about being Chinese and speaking Chinese but apparently, to me at least, it is a case of presenting an example to illustrate a point or some points. A bad study case though it may be, there are some positives we can derive from it.
I have my fair share of problem the Chinese language, particularly, Mandarin. I do not speak the language but understand enough to know what is going on around me. My best Mandarin companion these days is the Besta notebook.
As far as I am concern, we do know that the push to speak Mandarin has resulted in Singlish and the loss of dialects. I cannot help but question even further, that in our drive to embrace the foreign worker – particularly the Chinese worker from China – are we compounding the problem even further. What would our English become? SingChiNese?
I do advocate the need for all foreign workers to communicate in basic conversational English at least. The current scenario does not appeal to me, not when a service staff assigned to make out bank drafts showing such incompetency. Even if she does not understand the language, she ought to have checked or listened to the customer and follow accordingly; more so when the customer may be the hard-to-handle sort.
This brings us back to our perception of ourselves. Are we first world peoples?
The answer you give to this question can either bring you heartaches or nothing at all.
Peace to all.
81) Patrick:
“And the language for a cosmopolitan city is English, not Mandarin, not Tamil, not Malay. I don’t think one needs to debate on this.
English is not just another language. It is a language of universal understanding, of advantage, of comprehension and of global competitiveness. It is the language spoken by thoughts leaders and those who are at the forefront of every sphere of advancement. It is the language used by the top 100 universities in the world, spoken by all political leaders and integrates the world through all media, including the Internet.”
That is entirely your perception. You have no basis to claim English as a language of universal understanding nor advantage. Use of such superlatives undermine your own claim and position.
If you stepped out of your English world, you will realise thre are many leaders or philosophers who write in German, Russian, French, Spanish, Japanese, etc.
Some of my favourite thinkers (Jorge Luis Borges, Alain de Botton if you want some references for your next Top 10 list) and writers (both Murakamis) do not write in English. Some of the greatest works of fiction were translated FOR the English-speaking world. I have not Googled nor checked Wikipedia, but I am sure you will find many physicists or Nobel Laureates whose first language is not English.
Look at the microcosm of Japanese electronics and technology. Can anyone deny how advanced they are? Yet everything is in Japanese, and most of their infrastructure and gadgets run only in Japan. Are they disadvantaged? If you were to have your article translated into Japanese, and published on a Japanese website, do you think the Japanese will give a hoot about your thoughts on adopting English? Will Japan decide, oh damn, English is it! What have we been doing all this time?
Being competitive lies in offering something better than anyone else. When you have built a better mouse trap, or invented a more efficient wheel, the world will come to you even if you can only communicate in sign language.
English only came to the fore through colonisation and globalisation by Western society and conglomerates, and you even thinking English gives you an advantage implies your age, you’re already a few generations too late. You’re still living in Singapore and looking at the world from Singapore.
While the world, is looking at China and India.
Language is a communication tool developed by men, for men. I believe verbal language has already started to be used & developed since cavemen times. There’s drawings in caves by cavemen, & that is a primitive form of language too.
Nitpickers sometimes scrutinize grammar mistakes in a spoken language. That’s missing the whole point of a language. A language serves to allow people to communicate with one another. Why scrutinize if the point is able to be brought across?
A probably wise thing to do when one plans to stay & work in a foreign land for long, is to learn the basics of the land’s language.
“86) pugdragon on December 11th, 2008 3.28 pm
Nitpickers sometimes scrutinize grammar mistakes in a spoken language. That’s missing the whole point of a language. ”
You are right my friend.
But then when it comes to most important area of justice like disputes and when it has to go to the court. Legal experts like lawyers on both sides of the fence refer to every possible legal technicalities (sometimes in long sentences comprising of difficult legal jargons) to score points. And this argument sometimes does not even represent the true situation of the disputes, if you know what I mean.
That is the rule of the game lah. Imagine if you are no good in the language that is to be used in any discourse.
I have no problems if fellow Singaporeans or foreign workers don’t know who Tony Buzan is. In fact, I think that is a good thing.
I do have a problem, however, when service staff speak to Singaporean NON-CHINESE in Chinese.
I’m Singaporean Chinese myself, and although my Mandarin is not very good, I can still converse in it for basic transactions. But I have heard service staff speaking to Malays, Indians and Eurasians in Chinese.
It just so happens that most of these insensitive service staff are from mainland China. Local Singaporean Chinese, although they might prefer to speak in their own dialect, nevertheless can still talk to a fellow non-Chinese Singaporean in Singlish.
Perhaps the govt policy might be to maintain the Chinese majority and depress wages, and thus it is easy to hire cheap service staff from China. Whatever it is, surely national cohesiveness in a multi-racial society demands that foreign labour in the service sector (i.e. not including construction industry) should at least have a minimum English standard before being granted a work permit!
Reading through all these very interesting arguments reminds me of an incident that happen to me more than a decade ago while working in Thailand. I was to deliver a key note speech to over 200 potential customers who took their valuable time to attend the event hosted by my company. Having travelled to Thailand for over a dozen of time prior to this event, I sort of understood that the common language used is naturally Thai. Making sure that I want to ensure my audience understand what I am talking about, I have to prepare my key note speech in English and literally have it translated into Thai with the help of my colleague, practice like hell is breaking loose and thank god I was able to deliver it without looking at the prepared speech in Thai. Obviously, that is all I knew and I have to openly admit and apologize to my audience later that I speak very poor Thai but to show my respect to their culture since I am doing business in their country, I thought it is appropriate to deliver my key note speech in a language that strikes a core with them but not to discredit their understanding of the English language. I even promised them that I will try my very best to pick up their language and will converse with them personally in a language of their choice when we next meet. I did pick up their language through my 2 years of working in Thailand but then it wasn’t good enough to conduct business meeting or even casual lengthy conversation as my colleagues prefers me to speak English to them (an excuse) so they can learn to speak better English (a more diplomatic way of telling me that my Thai learning skill really sucks).
Likewise, when I converse with my Japanese client or potential customers, I literally have to force myself to pick up a word or two (even risking being made a mockery of my pronunciation and so on) to project a more professional image that I do respect their culture and to avoid short comings of not able to deliver their needs and wants clearly in a language that I probably would feel more comfortable at; I even go the extend of arranging a Japanese colleague from my Japan office to listen in and get involve via a conference call to make sure that my Japanese client’s need are addressed correctly. But then again, they are the paying customers, therefore, they deserved to be treated with care if high service level is to maintain. This also served to ensure there is no mis-communication in our exchanges due to my lack of understanding of their native language. I do speak Japanese but not fluent enough to engaged in a lengthy casual conversation let alone to conduct business meeting.
My two years sting in China did create some very embarrassing yet memorable moments albeit I can converse and write well in Mandarin. The problem is that I was in Shanghai and from time to time, Shanghai dialects are used freely when come to deliver some very important message that your counter party do not want to you to know. In some occasions, tensions have resulted through this seemed very minor but callous behavior. But the fault is on me as I failed to recognize this fact and took me a while to concede but by then I have paid the price of loosing a couple of sizeable deals.
Subsequently when I got transferred to Hong Kong, Cantonese was the norm albeit an English colleague told me that I can survive without having to learn Cantonese because majority of Hong Kong people speaks fluent colonial English. I beg to differ with this colleague of mine. In terms of businesses, true, English may be more appropriate but only applicable majority of the time if you are speaking to the Corporate Level Senior Management staff of MNCs, not so true when your conversing parties are local companies though. When conversing with the local people (whether in business or leisure), there are idiom expressions that cannot be translated into other language and you would have lost that diction and the camaraderie inclusiveness. In Hong Kong, a place where I have spent more than a decade now working and living, Cantonese rule. Even their parliament meetings are conducted mainly in Cantonese. There are no shortages of non-Asian or Chinese speaking fluent Cantonese in Hong Kong either. Again, initially, I was very apprehensive as I need to conduct training, meetings and give presentations internally or to client in Cantonese with lower subordinates who is finding it hard to understand the English language. I find it less intimidating now as through the last decade of intensive learning through mistakes and some very embarrassing moments, and being thrust into an environment that in order for me to be understood and be inclusive, I need somehow to speak the language that will get my message across loud and clear without the meaning being misconstrued.
The moral behind my sharing is; from a service point of view, the banking staff should have raised her concerns and politely inform Patrick that she could not speak English and get help from her colleague or superior who can speak English to attend to Patrick’s need. On the other hand, given the assumption that the bank staff could have been intimidated by Patrick’s command of English which she was absolutely clueless, Patrick could have done her a favor by offering her advice to get someone who speaks English to attend to his need. That would have avoided this “bad experiences”.
So strictly, in the context of service level, Patrick raised a valid point. However, I disagree with him like many had expressed here that to be cosmopolitan (just taking one of the many points being argued), English language ruled. In today’s globalize world where connecting to one another is easily accessible via travel or the net, LANGUAGE does rule, but in the name of BUSINESS & ECONOMIES it is largely based on who has the better purchasing power and potentials. I felt ashamed the last time when I visited Beijing and saw with my eyes that two Americans (a black and a white) spoke fluent Mandarin with a Beijing accent that I would have mistook them as locals if I closed my eyes. As if that is not humiliating enough, I saw on local TV programs on foreigners learning Mandarin in Beijing, the level of their understanding of the Mandarin language; that really blew my mind off. It makes you ponder and ask, I need to work harder albeit I speaks and write in 5 languages; English, Mandarin, Cantonese, (fluent enough to conduct business meetings), Japanese and Thai still at elementary level after all these years, barely enough to engage in a short conversation. I would have done better (an excuse) if I am being thrust into an environment if knowing the language is a matter of survival.
Singapore is unique in a sense that we have no real language identity other than our born ethnicity (our “dialect”). True, English is declared by the government as our business language. Bahasa Melayu is our national language and in our melting pot of citizenry, Tamil and Chinese plays a significant role as well as far as social cohesiveness is concerned. No doubt about it, the government is hard at promoting to us the citizenry to adopt at least two languages namely English and Mandarin. Our educational system had long promoted the idea to use English as the main medium for teachings and all other languages are treated as secondary. That may have created a newer generation with the false believes that they need only to know one language to enable them to secure a job. To a degree that is true, but sadly, some may be over influenced by the influx of western ideology and had preferred to try to “master” the command of the English language and neglected the need to give equal importance to the Mandarin Language (or other languages for that matter of fact) who by far the most spoken in the world due the population in China; with China being the next big economy of the world, we are now playing catch up.
A friendly advice to you Patrick and some of my fellow Singaporeans, it does you more than good to speak more than just the English language these days whether you are referring to being competitive or just wanting to engage a leisure conversation with global citizens. The fundamental key sources of business or leisure are people regardless of what we do).What is more comfortable than knowing that you are able to converse in a language that your message will not be misconstrue and needs attended to if you speak the right language, “Politeness, Humbleness and Diplomacy” regardless of the other party knowing only a language that seemed foreign to you. Unless you have decided that you never wanted to step outside of Singapore or to countries where English is not commonly used in conversation, then perhaps you can and will survive with just the English language even if it is not “perfect”. By the way, some Chinese and non native English friends that I happened to know speaks very fluent English with either a perfect American or British accent. You can’t tell that they are from mainland China or Thailand or Middle East, but they are all very humble people and they are hard at work in learning Cantonese as well since they are working in Hong Kong.
aiyoyo
30years of nation building,
commoners pay so high price,
not sure the next 30years of nation building,
commoners pay super super high price? or what?
aiyoyo
Observer (SG-HK), i think you have got it. :)
Patrick, listen up.
To Singaporeans, English is very important because of its commercial value.
To survive in TW, you need Mandarin or Pu Tong Hua or Min Nan Yu. English is secondary.
To survive in S.Korea, you need to speak Korean. English is secondary.
To survive in Japan, you need to speak Japanese. English is secondary.
To survive in Germany, you need to speak German. English is secondary.
To survive in Italy, you need to speak Italian. English is secondary.
To survive in France, you need to speak French. English is secondary.
To survive in Spain, you need to speak Spanish. English is secondary.
To survive in Sweden, you need to speak Swedish. English is secondary.
To survive in Norway, you need to speak Norwegian. English is secondary.
Above are all 1st world countries, in my opinion.
To survive in China (the Factory of the world), you need Mandarin or Pu Tong Hua. English is secondary.
english so important mer? then why we all so used to talk singlish not english? in my daily work i use singlish most of the time except meeting with clients/boss, and so far so good
to be fair to patrick as what he pointed out and i also agreed that the service standard is not only bad, but is really really serious in view of our tourism industry which play a crucial role bringing in forein investment and income. heard a lot of cases where the foreigner go to sim lim square and kena con by the sales people there, and worse still, some kena scold and insulted. these foreigner will go back their country and tell their frens/relatives of how bad singapore is and will never visit again
today more people know english than 30 years ago. the problem is, people feel shy of using english and instead prefer mandarin/hokkien/singlish/malay/etc. why is that i dun know, but i feel better chit chat in singlish and its kind of weird talking using english.
Thumbs up for Observer!
TZZ @ 92:
“To survive in Japan, you need to speak Japanese. English is secondary.”
Not true if you’re a white, blond Westerner. Especially in Tokyo.
And re: Service Staff insisting on speaking Mandarin with an Indian/Malay customer? I dare bet that they are less likely to do so with a Westerner.
Also: why do Asians tend to be impressed by English speakers who are able to speak/write an Asian language well? They sure don’t tend to be impressed by Asians (from outside the western zones) who have very, very good command of English.
94, Amused.
There are many fellow Asians who are unable to grasp that language and the visual impression of race do not necessary have to be the same
The British left… that’s why