Animal rights activists want dolphins destined for Singapore’s Sentosa Resort to be returned to Solomon Islands.
Report below from Solomon Star News.
Visit Facebook Group: I will boycott Resorts World Sentosa and its Marine Life Park.
INTERNATIONAL animal activities are urging the Philippine Government to return dolphins exported to them back to the Solomon Islands.
Solomon Islands Mammal Education Centre and Exporters Ltd sent seven dolphins there last month. Another 11 left yesterday. These were sent there to be trained before they are re-exported to Singapore for entertainment purposes.
Twelve marine and conservation organisations around the world have written to the Philippines Government asking them to return the dolphins.
In a letter obtain by the Solomon Star, addressed to Edwyn B. Alesna, Chairman Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources/CITES in the Philippines, the group offered options or pursue legal action.
“We respectfully request your immediate action to:
1. seize and confiscate the seven dolphins already in the Philippines and, at the expense of the importer, prepare to return them to the Solomon Islands;
2. deny the issuance of any import permit for the additional eleven dolphins; and
3. immediately notify the Solomon Islands government that you will not allow the import of any additional dolphins from there until and unless it complies with Article IV of CITES and with the relevant requirements contained in Philippine law.
They said the import and export of wildlife and wildlife products is clear violations of the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) and the associated laws of the Philippines.
“On behalf of the undersigned organisations, we are seeking your immediate assistance to prevent ongoing violations of these laws. In addition, we understand that an additional 11 dolphins are scheduled to be exported from the Solomon Islands to the Philippines at any moment and that this shipment, if allowed to proceed, would also violate CITES and Philippine law,” the letter said.
Earth Island Institute Director based in the United States Mark Berman told Solomon Star yesterday’s the export is further atrocity against the dolphin populations of the Solomon Islands.
The 11 dolphins is going to Philippines and then to Sentosa Resort, Singapore.
“We will continue to fight for the freedom of dolphins and an end to this cruel trade,” Mr Berman said.
“At nearly 100,000 USD per dolphin, you can see that only certain individuals line their pockets with cash. The citizens of the Solomon Islands see none of this profit, and the dolphins belong to no one. “They are migratory and just happen to be in SI waters when they are taken prisoner,” he said.
He adds: “I would like to congratulate the Western Province for allowing dolphins in their waters to swim free from human abuse. This continues to allow Noro base and Soltai to be dolphin safe for their tuna products”.
Mr Berman said the Solomon Islands Government should know that the short term money from dolphin catch and export will in time dry up as the international community of environmental organisations works to end the markets for dolphin captures and exports.
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Dear Seelan Palay & Chong Kai Xiong,
Please protest against the govt for allowing Resort World to make use of dolphin to earn money. , what an inhuman act, I will definitely boycott Sentosa and IR casino. I will ask my friends and relatives not to visit Sentosa until they release the dolphin back to where they come from.
You people are activists of every areas in life. Just because you cannot acieve your political aims you drum up some other excuse to gain support. HOw pointless can the life of these activists be? Animal rights indeed.
It isn’t as though the dolphins are going to be killed or tortured. Other then the fact that they generate tourist coins, they will also provide on hand research for the marine experts in Singapore. You people have some kind of inverted cone in front of your eyes, preventing you from seeing the options with a full view.
I wish you activists who are trying to encourage boycott failure.
One little thing everyone can do is to stop going to Sentosa. Reccession rite? So we should not spent money on it. If half of the visitors destined for Sentosa change their mind about going, what would all visitors achieve? Not only FT, now they also want to import Foreign Talent Dolphins.
panther on January 17th, 2009 10.55 pm,
If you were referring to TOC with that statement, “just because you cannot acieve your political aims you drum up some other excuse to gain support…”, then please note that TOC’s aims were not to invoke feelings of rage with the government.
After all, animal rights abuse has been happening around the globe for decades. What TOC is doing is merely publishing an article. Look, the report isn’t even from TOC’s editors!
It is up to the readers to interpret the news. I think as civilized and learned men, we ought to be able to see for ourselves what’s manipulating and what’s not. After all, isn’t the agenda of our States Times the reason why we find solace here?
The issue here is about usage of wild dolphins, instead of captive-bred ones.
all keeping of animals for fun shall be banned. no pet dogs or cats too. no aquarium fishes, no zoos or bird parks. they should all be freed and live in their natural habitats.
hey actually these dolphins work for a living, being fed and taken care off, with vets looking after their health. and safe from the elements and sharks.
what i think should be banned is keeping animals for the slaughter house or fishing.
now what else shall we banned?
sad when differing views are slammed in one sweeping statement as being all activists with failed political agenda, inverted cone visionary and living pointless lives. to add salt – wish you people failure.
what vindictiveness!
#7,
You can see that on Stomp daily. The level of kaypohness and silly vindictiveness is for all to see.
The whole “jiak pah chinchia eng” mentality will take an entire generation to slowly vanish..
I think I need to clarify a few points. When I said failure, I meant for the boycott to be a failure. Aren’t you a Singaporean? Do you want the IRs to succeed or not? Whether or not we need the dolphins doesn’t matter.
As you can see, the space in which the dolphins will be kept is certainly not confined. It is spacious, giving the dolphins room for movement.
Those activists protest, and they are Singaporeans as well. What do you think this means? If the IRs fail, will you be blaming yourselves for arrnaging the boycott? Of course not. The govt will get all the blame. Do you want white elephants downtown? I hope not.
Look, having such dolphins will encourage more marine study and enhance Singapore’s image as a research hub. You can’t just protest like that without knowing the consequence. If I am not wrong, this will be the first time such dolphins can be studied up this close. We aren’t even keeping them in a fish tank. I really don’t understand the issue here.
Why do we have to protest everything that the government does? I wish the government of now would be like the government of last, not caring whether they lose votes or not, as long as they get the job done. How many people do you think wanted to live in HDB apartments when they were first built? Many people prefered the slums and squatters. But gradually, the people accomodated and managed to identify the advantages of high-rise living.
Things aren’t always the way they seem.
Panther:
You really have the “don’t rock the boat” mentality. Not everyone here agrees that Singapore should even has the IR in the first place. Now you are singing praise over HDB?
Let me raise some interesting points on HDB’s legacy. The first HDB flats were build in Bukit Ho Swee. They were built almost immediately after the Bukit Ho Swee Fire. These flats were constructed over a period of less than 9 months. How is it possible that the logistics, labour, urban planning and construction of these flats were approved so fast? Who actually started the Bukit Ho Swee Fire?
I knew it, conspiracy theories.
Let me remind you that during the 60s, all HDB construction were conducted by the government, or to be exact, the Housing Development Board under MOND. Logistics, labour, urban planning and construction isn’t an issue then.
Unemployment was rampant, can we not find labour with so many jobless people around?
Logistics were standardised. All blocks were uniformed. Ever noticed that old HDB flats were of the same design? So what’s there to re-design?
At that time, with so many people homeless or leaving in slums, what is there to plan? Remember that long ago, the HDB followed the build-then-buy sheme, as compared to the buy-then-build ones known today. There were so many homeless then, how can you not find occupants?
As for construction, they are related to those points above.
Singaporeans didn’t make an issue of whether there should be an IR or not. It was the casino problem. The majority of us agree that we need an IR to generate tourist dollars. It’s only the casino issue that gave us reason to debate. Nothing else, though perhaps now, there is this animal rights dispute.
Are you sure the first HDB flats were built in Bukit Ho Swee? I don’t think so, they may be among the first, but certainly not the first.
I have no idea who started the fire. It was rumoured to be that of household fires. I am unsure about whether the govt published a report on that fire. Why? You regret living in HDB flats?
Haha~
erm… just to clarify…
the best research isn’t done in captivity. It’s done in the wild, in their natural range. Captivity elicits abnormal behavior in animals. Down to even cells. Just like in vitro and in vivo experiments frequently yield disparaging results, so do those data borne from captivity and wild.
credible data cant be gleaned from research done in captivity, such as those pertaining to behaviour, migration, distribution or population studies. especially when its regarding migratory animals. :)
Panther,
Animals may have their own feelings too. who wants to be caged up and not roam in freedom? who wants to be separated from their kind? Do you want that to happen to you? you make it sound as though the imprisonment of them is a good thing for us and them, though that may be not be the case at all.
“Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally.”
For your case, when i hear you saying “It isn’t as though the dolphins are going to be killed or tortured.” and “the space in which the dolphins will be kept is certainly not confined. It is spacious, giving the dolphins room for movement.”
I have a strong impulse to try it on you personally too. as an example, capture you, and put you in some place to have research done on you, but keeping you alive and not torturing you and with ample space to move in. Tell me how will you feel?
“As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master.” my believe is that if i don’t want the same thing to happen to me, i won’t do it to others…
and btw, the 2 quotes are from the same person
“As you can see, the space in which the dolphins will be kept is certainly not confined. It is spacious, giving the dolphins room for movement.”
yea man, i am totally sure you understand the dolphins and appreciate that “space” there is not “confined’. wow. not even zoologists can make these statements, and yet we have a 17 year old saying that its spacious enough. fantastic.
“Those activists protest, and they are Singaporeans as well. What do you think this means? If the IRs fail, will you be blaming yourselves for arrnaging the boycott? Of course not. The govt will get all the blame. Do you want white elephants downtown? I hope not.”
you do not understand what it means by to protest. to protest is the exercise of personal opinion. please. such animal activists are protesting not because they want the government to get the blame, but they want to highlight publicly what they perceived as abuse of animal rights. they wish to put pressure on the IR operators to stop the dolphins from coming over, that’s why they call out for the boycott. everything that does not go along with the government, you say anti-government and that singaporeans want the government to fail. tons narrow-minded and in essence, myopic.
“Look, having such dolphins will encourage more marine study and enhance Singapore’s image as a research hub. You can’t just protest like that without knowing the consequence. If I am not wrong, this will be the first time such dolphins can be studied up this close. We aren’t even keeping them in a fish tank. I really don’t understand the issue here.’
the issue here is that these dolphins are wild dolphins and that wild animals are not meant to be held in captivity. the best research is carried out in the wild, where the animals exhibit their natural behaviour. i don’t think zoologists study tiger movements and behaviour in the zoos right? you can’t complain without understanding the other side, and refusing to do so because you see it as anti-government. grow up, for goodness sake. the government goes beyond the Straits Times and your social studies textbook, the subject in which you got B3 for. you can’t even ace government’s propaganda, and you are out here criticising activists for lack of understanding.
“Why do we have to protest everything that the government does? I wish the government of now would be like the government of last, not caring whether they lose votes or not, as long as they get the job done. How many people do you think wanted to live in HDB apartments when they were first built? Many people prefered the slums and squatters. But gradually, the people accomodated and managed to identify the advantages of high-rise living.”
you want such a government? one that does not care about political outcomes and fallout? because you believe such a government can do what’s best for the country, and because social studies said so? then go live in north korea. Kim certainly do not care whether they lose votes or not. i am not going to teach you what’s a fully functioning democracy and the importance of having one, and the meaning of voting rights. get it from your textbook. they are always right.
“Singaporeans didn’t make an issue of whether there should be an IR or not. It was the casino problem. The majority of us agree that we need an IR to generate tourist dollars. It’s only the casino issue that gave us reason to debate. Nothing else, though perhaps now, there is this animal rights dispute.”
please, singaporeans ain’t stupid and they don’t buy into government’s hogwash, seeing that they have seen it for so long. just because the government claims that the IR and the casinos are separate issues does not mean singaporeans believe that. everyone knows that the IR MUST INVOLVE casinos, thats where the bulk of the profits come from. no casinos, what IR? What MICE or whatever family attractions? please. don’t be naive.
when you want to start singing praise of the HDB, i hope you understand something known as lease. 99-year lease. leasing it for 99 years does not quantify as ownership. so HDB is nothing less than a major fraud. and many people know it. but what choice do they have?
I enjoy Sentosa for its beaches, scenery, peacocks and not-very-palatable food. Nothing else.
HDBs a fraud? Hmm at least we have a place to stay, but overpriced and rigged HDB prices definitely is considered a large scheme.
Unless you are a buddhist or vegan, I think there isn’t really a definite answer for this.
Animal rights activist have to ask themselves if they are doing selective protesting. For eg, dolphins being cute and having close to human intelligence makes us want to ‘protect’ them more than, say, blue-finned tuna which is also becoming endangered.
Secondly, it is true that many knowledge of animals, eg, evolution, wouldn’t have been understood were it not for many instances of, ‘cruelty’ to animals. One of the foremost pioneer of natural seletion, Alfred Russel Wallace, was an avid hunter. In fact, if not for him being able to study the stuffed animals he hunted, he would not have observed the differences between same species in different regions that led him to conclude natural selection was at work.
Of course, i guess the issue here is that the animals were not raised in captivity, and so, maybe it was a bit unethical to catch them from the wild. Unlike animals raised in captivity, wild animals face very high stress level when confined in limited spaces. And even the pool was 500 by 500 metres, it would still be too small for these free-roaming creatures.
I wonder if Singapore signed the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES). It would indeed be embarassing if we are seem to be openly flounting the same agreement we signed. There are always better solutions to get dolphins to boost our falling numbers.
Maybe we should look into breeding real merlions….
sorry ‘falling TOURIST numbers” . I don’t think dolphins help in increasing our population.
@14
We are now talking about dolphins. We are talking about the sea. The zoo is essentially a land based attraction. The sea is virtually unlimited. All these are relative. An ant placed in a fish tank will find his confinement spacious while an arowana may not.
Whether I am 17 or not doesn’t matter. It is the point of this protest that does. How many of us wants to see the IRs fail? Do we want white elephants downtown? What is the actual objective of our protest or call for a boycott? Is it really for these dolphins? If so, why? On what grounds?
The Singapore government, together with the developers have already ensured that the dolphin’s confinement is mimicked as much as possible to their natural habitat. So there isn’t any difference. It’s isn’t as though we are transfering a penguin from the Antartic to the Sahara.
For one, I NEVER did say the protesters are protesting so that the governement gets the blame. I said they are protesting without knowing the consequence of their actions. What animal rights do they adhere to? As I have said, in my argument above as well as here, the dolphins confinement over at Sentosa will imitate that of their natural habitat in order to give the dolphins the most original living environment.
For one, I do not agree with the actions of these activists. They know no limits. Look, when the WP Youth Wing chairman organised a petition for concession fees applicable to polytechnic students, I supported him. He was against the government’s transport policy, but I saw the feasibility and reasonability of his actions, and thus supported him as I knew that not many polytechnic graduates would go to work immediately. Some or most might even want to carry on to University. The main reason why increasing numbers of people go to Poly is because they know it is a safer choice. They get a diploma, as compared to JC A’levels which is useless in the working world.
For one thing, personally, I got B3 for CHs simply because the SS SEQ topic/s which I studied hard for involving current affairs, economic developments, et cetera never came out. Some Venice question came out instead, which I was weak in. Besides, you saw CHs, not SS, meaning that history is included as well. As for EL, forget it..
You do realise that the oceanarium being developed over at Sentosa is the largest in the world? And the dolphins are naturally going to be one of the star attractions since mot many ocean-aquariums possess such dolphins which can be viewed and studied at close range. Even though it is stated above that it;s for entertainment value, I believe research can also be carried out.
Ah~
You spoke about what studying these creatures in the wild? You know where they are I suppose? Solomon Islands! Are you going to travel to and fro everytime you want to research on these dolphins? As you would undoubtedly know by now, Singapore relies extensively or rather, entirely on skilled labour and a knowledge based economy. Besides generating tourist dollars, we can also enhance our image. Schools can now organise excursions out to these oceanariums and allow students of a very tender age to appreciate the delicacy of the world ecosystem. I don’t think you are being very fair by saying this is animal abuse?
It’s akin to killing two or maybe even three birds with one stone. By developing these ocean-aquariums, tourists dollars are generated, research can be carried out and young and tender minds are taught to mind the ecosystem of the Earth in Singapore.
I don’t know what you are talking about? What kind of government? When I spoke about a government not inclined for huge and popular political gains, I mean a pragmatic government. A government that does what is right for the country. A government that focuses on both long-term and short term results. You know what democracy is? There are many kinds of democracy. NK isn’t a democracy. I think even internet content is heavily restricted, while here in Singapore, you see both of us and everyone else posting replies, whether or not we support the government.
Hahahaha~
You really believe an IR must have a casino? I don’t think so. Does DisneyLand or OceanPark have casinoes? I’ve never seen one. These theme parks can replace casinoes. If I am not wrong, the government approached DisneyLand’s board but their request for a theme park here was turned down or rejected. Reasons can be specualted, but most likely because of our limited size. Furthermore, Singapore was the first country to invent this term “IR” or “Integrated Resort”. So I believe we can do whatever we want with it? As for Escape Theme Park, it isn’t well-managed, so it isn’t a surprise that venture failed. Wonder why it’s still running. Ever since the roller coaster incident.. haiz.
As for the 99 year lease, you think blocks can hold up for over a century? Can you live for over a century or even live in a single apartment forever? Unforseen circumstances such as schools and venues may force us to relocate. Many condominiums are alike. I suppose you will use inheritance then. I believe there is a substantial payout if the government wants you to relocate, ever since the ammendment of the land acquisition act. Before that, well.. HDB wasn’t existant 99 years ago.
As for comment no. 13, you can identify what I wrote from above. Think they’re related.
A rat is also an animal.. a pig is also an animal. A dolphin is also an animal. Why is one killed with no qualms, another eaten without a word, and the other being fought for to live in it’s original habitat? Those activists aren’t consistent are they? Go and fight for people to abstain from eating pork before fighting for the freedom of these dolphins. Haha.. joking. But seriously, it is because the dolphin has no useful properties other then that of it’s tourist value so far, that makes it a subject for protests.
Studying together with thinking gives us useful insight in aspects of life never discovered before. How do you think periwinkle’s medicinal properties were discovered? Why do you think people wanted to go to Madagascar than forget about it again?
Also, isn’t the earth itself a confined space? Why aren’t we humans complaining? And with what global warming and all these environmental issues, our living space is going to get smaller. Why aren’t we complaining then? Because we don’t feel the difference! So will these dolphins. As I said earlier, we aren’t transfering them from the ocean to a fish tank for goodness sake.
^-^
What about the whale sharks? Same as the dolphins.
Haha~
Panther,
If you could, please clarify and define what exactly is the category that ‘you people’ in your post #2 mean. From some of your posts, you seemed a very thoughtful person who could quite possibly look at both sides of an issue and understood there are no such things as absolutes. So it is with quite a heavy heart (though, yes, I do agree with you that there are people who would oppose for the mere sake of opposing) that see your hasty generalization. I believe you are a compassionate person, and a compassionate person always tries to empathize with the other party first. I also believe that you have read my previous comments about your comments. Still the same old words-
Your intelligence is a gift that should be used with kindness and compassion. If you believe people are wrong or ill-informed, educate them. Not mock them.
hugs
Dear Panther,
“We are now talking about dolphins. We are talking about the sea. The zoo is essentially a land based attraction. The sea is virtually unlimited. All these are relative. An ant placed in a fish tank will find his confinement spacious while an arowana may not.”
“Such a great insight”…but have you forgotten one thing. when you say ” As I said earlier, we aren’t transferring them from the ocean to a fish tank for goodness sake.”
Dolphins are classified as a marine animal and that’s primarily ocean-dwelling or depend on the ocean for food. Yes,sure, you are not transferring them to a fish tank, you are just transferring them to a much smaller scale of their natural habitat. You gave an example of an ant vs arrowana in a tank to justify your point, but a dolphin in a sea may just be like an arrowana who may not find the tank spacious.
Like what i have said earlier, when you can say something like this so casually, it will be nice for the same thing to happen to you.
Maybe if you were a slave in the 1860s, and If Lincoln thinks like you, you will still remain as a slave.
but there is one part that i agree with you “Those activists aren’t consistent are they?” but i will like to add on further, that all humans are inconsistent, both you and me. tell me, are you 100% consistent? so i won’t penalize them, you or myself for inconsistency.
Oh, and on another note. Imprisonment of dolphins may be bad, but compared to Japan’s whaling in the name of research, that’s a lesser of 2 evil. so yeah, Panther, maybe you can use this to justify your point?lol
When I say ‘you people’, it refers to the first post. I read wrongly. I thought it was Seelan or Kai Xiong who made that facebook group. I cannot see eye to eye with people the likes of Seelan who protest in public pointlessly. Even Chee SJ is better.
Apologies…
Joshua, Mr Chiang or Zefly, it’s not that I didn’t reply, but both my previous nicks were put under moderation and replies I sent never got through.
As for the others… another time..
Oh, and you’re right SZ. We also happen to protect these dolphins by puting them into a protected enclosure. Better then letting them be killed for meat or die accidentally in the wild due to human factors such as ship propellers.
Panther,
Just a little tip. That may help. From experience, it is always best NOT to write anything immediately after you read the article, or replies etc etc. It’s better to mull about it for a while. Because sometimes you are too hasty to write, and you end up ruffling feathers unnecessarily. (eg – misunderstanding the article as written by Seelan Pillay) Then you have to end up defending yourself, or worse apologizing. (as you can see, I hate to apologize)
It is so much easier to piss people off online than offline, (i’m sure you must be a pretty pleasant person in real life), so why not just take the time to pause and think, or just leave it alone first, until half hour, or tomorrow. It gives you time to reflect also the validity of the other person’s point.
But yes, animal activism are very complex. However, I always think that, even though animal activists rarely get what they want and can be dangerously milliant eg Greenpeace, their aggressiveness DO at least ensure a certain degree of caution on the parts of the Sentosa people, and also raise awarness to many acts of cruelty that may otherwise have gone unnoticed.
Well maybe tomorrow will be about Burmese dolphins… :P
erm panther…
travelling all the way to solomon islands? yes thats what naturalist do. travelling all the way to cloud mountain in cape verde? hell yes. the journey may be arduous, but these people like us track in the thick borneo forest and not transplant the fauna back to sg to study. we dive the depths to conduct jellyfish population studies and not put them in a tank.
if u do not know peanuts abt research pls refrain from saying things that don’t make sense. science ISNT about convenience. why do you think credible evidence takes time?
my only displeasure is how u stretch the dolphins in the oceanarium to include research. unless we can harvest something from them (which by the way steps out of the boundaries of animal rights, something which im not going into), every international biologist and naturalist will say you are trying to turn copper into gold.
research, my boy, isnt as glorious or simple as the media paints it. so pls leave research (as a benefit) out of the discussion.
Dolphins and whale sharks etc are migratory animals by nature, they travel thousands of kilometers each year and dive to great depths in search of food, to give birth to young etc. The tank they’re going to be kept in may be big to you, me or Resorts World, but to keep dolphins or whale sharks in the tank is tantamount to expecting a human to spend their entire life in a 2m by 2m room. Would you like that?
As for the hogwash about “research”, as others have pointed out, the only place to research wild animals is in the wild. I’ve no objection to companies wanting to make profits, but when lives of animals or people suffer because of said profits, then I have serious issues with it.
As for redbean, using the 2m by 2m room analogy, if you’re kept in that room, your food, clothes, medical needs taken care of the rest of your life, would you volunteer for that? Oh to make the comparison more fair with the plans for the dolphin, lets make it a 5m by 5m room, same conditions as above but you get to have maybe 3-4 relatives and/or people you know kept in with you for the rest of your lives. Would you want that?
What’s wrong with the main stories that #25 seem to be taking issue with?
One man’s meat is another’s poison – some feel more passionate about certain issues but the MSM censors them. Strange to come in to tell others one is bored – but then nobody kicks a dead dog. If i find something boring i will not do it anymore and seek more palatable websites to me elsewhere then.
Unless the motive is to tell TOC their articles are boring and `freakish’ and not worth reading. But then who is forcing one to read them then?
Why not email TOC and tell them what you like to read? Like tri-partitism works or reserves and rainy days or the Flyer decide to send more orang utans up to educate the public about their natural habitat in the air or New national education to counter lies in the new media?
oi. The original #25 had been taken out. Now I became #25. Basket. Wait people think I’m the one being scolded. TOC! Not fair!!! I’m your ardent supporter!!!
Panther, pl visit the Facebook group “I will boycott Resorts World Sentosa and its Marine Life Park”. The best way to cure you of your blinkered views is to have you marooned on Solomon Islands, bereft of water and material goods. That way you will encounter Nature and be humbled. You will realise that the Solomon Islands is facing rising sea water level from climate change. You will also realise how the islands’ corals, its surrounding marine and ecological biodiversity is affected. Humility and compassion is a virtue that you have yet to embrace and comprehend.
As for those criticizing the activists for selective activism for the dolphins and not other animals, I say just because you can’t save the world at once, does not mean you should not try to make it better, bit by bit.
At least, its better than naysayers who do nothing but throw stones without one iota of constructive action.
Personally, I really couldn’t give a flying f**k if the IRs succeed or fail, I’ve seen the debilitating effect of almost uncontrolled gambling licenses being dished out where I am now. The winners are the big casino/gaming operators, the losers are the families of those hooked on gambling while the politicians will be too hooked on the income from the casinos to do right by the people.
Besides, what planet were you on before the IR decision went ahead Panther? The opposition to the casino portion was vociferous, almost unprecedented in Singapore.
And I think like many of the governments pet projects, the results will be mixed at best, in terms of profit making, tourist numbers and jobs created for Singaporeans. Given that there are already casinos established in the region (which are not doing too well themselves) and we’re not the only ones planning to build one.
http://www.ava.gov.sg/AnimalsPetSector/CITESEndangeredSpecies/
Singapore is INDEED a signatory of CITES. So the question now is whether it is breaking the CITES agreement, or abetting the ‘illegal’ trade in any way.
My take is, yes, we have to do things to improve tourism. And there are some intrinsic values in having dolphins RAISED IN CAPTIVITY to create awareness of dolphins being endangered.
But it would be wrong for us to be seen as breaking an agreement that we signed in the name of national interests. It doesn’t reflect very on us.
Zzz… There is a limit to animal rights activism and unfortunately, I have to say that few people know the limits of it. They just protest because they think it is wrong. That’s about all. They rely solely on intuition which may be wrong.
As commenter 30 had said, Solomon Islands are about to “sink”. Sea levels in that area are rising and corals and such are being damaged little by little. I don’t know if this is true, but if it is, then isn’t Singapore indirectly or unconsciously providing protection for this dolphins from the wrath of nature?
You(Universe child) want people to identify and appreciate the beauty of nature? Fine! Bring over those animals to Singapore. Re-create their natural habitat and raise awareness closer to shore. No point marooning me at the islands.
~sigh~
as for the others, different kinds of plants require different types of nutrients to grow and stay healthy.
Hi panter,
It is quite admirable for one so young to have such strong opinions and you know what makes it even more remarkable? That you believe in what you believe in so strongly and most here are finding it rather impossible to make you waver in your thinking.
This is good, but there is also danger.
Some of us have been watching how you are growing up here in TOC and I must say that there is a marked inprovement in the way you are now presenting your points; that is; minus all the boyish banter and insinuations. This is a good step forward.
I was reading your post #18, and I must give compliment in the manner in which you argued your points. I sincerely hope you could continue at this level of debate, without resorting to unwarranted snide remarks and what not.
I have one advise, if that is useful at all, and that is, that you take some time to understand the writings and comments that may not go down well with you and reflect a little bit on them.
This is what I always do and it helps us have a deeper understanding on why people say the things they say and do the things they do.
Panther,
as you have said “different kinds of plants require different types of nutrients to grow and stay healthy.” so does animal, they need to be in their natural habitat to remain that way
“I don’t know if this is true, but if it is, then isn’t Singapore indirectly or unconsciously providing protection for this dolphins from the wrath of nature?”
haha, and that’s the funny part. isn’t singapore contributing to the global warming even though it may not be a big amount. so we are provoking the wrath of nature and then we “offer” protection for those victim that suffers collecteral damage. Real nice Panther, really nice…that’s so typical of human. on one hand, we do things that harm the environment and on the other, we try to protect those victim that are hurt by our action when it can be prevented.
and lastly, you are suppose to be smart panther yet you can say “Fine! Bring over those animals to Singapore. Re-create their natural habitat and raise awareness closer to shore. No point marooning me at the islands.” how easy is it to do that? ask yourself. for certain species to survive, the ecological system need to be right, try bringing some animals and if you don’t have the right food to feed them, or if the environment/temperature isn’t right, then see what happens after that.
Panther,
“As commenter 30 had said, Solomon Islands are about to “sink”. Sea levels in that area are rising and corals and such are being damaged little by little. I don’t know if this is true, but if it is, then isn’t Singapore indirectly or unconsciously providing protection for this dolphins from the wrath of nature?”
Sea levels are going to rise and swamp the Solomon Islands. But thats not going to affect the dolphins there as long as there’s ocean there.
“You(Universe child) want people to identify and appreciate the beauty of nature? Fine! Bring over those animals to Singapore. Re-create their natural habitat and raise awareness closer to shore. No point marooning me at the islands.”
Fantastic idea! It takes a genius to figure out a perfect solution! Now show us unworthy commoners how to recreate their several-thousand-mile-long migration routes and thousands-of-feet-deep feeding grounds in little old Resorts World Sentosa o wise genius.
Panther,
You’re a smug brat. You think you’re very clever, but you’re not. If you were that informed, you would have read environmental reports that the Solomon Islands, and other island states including Tuvalu, Kiribati, Papua New Guinea and Vanuatu are threatened by rising sea levels. If you have friends studying in New Zealand, Australia and Hawaii, they would have told you that, unless of course, they are just as ignorant and insular as you.
Your greatest downfall is your pride. Pride comes before Fall. Your arguments not only reflect your immaturity, it also reveals your arrogance. Logic and rationalism is not enough to rule the world or rule your countrymen – there has to be compassion. Sadly, your parents have not taught you this. If they did, you would not turn out the way you are.
“Fine! Bring over those animals to Singapore. Re-create their natural habitat and raise awareness closer to shore. No point marooning me at the islands.” – is a monumental example of your childishness and utter lack of respect of the way Nature works.
You think Man is greater than Nature, that man can summon the seas and mountains to him, that man can subjugate the entire animal kingdom and will creatures to entertain humans, yes, for our own amusement. Indeed, the human race was gifted with intelligence. But doing all this, does not make us noble.
For you to understand the meaning of noble, you need to be cast out to sea, or into the wilderness, out in the mountains and prairies. Society will be a better place if you went. But we need not send you far – Indonesia, the Philippines and India will do. There’s a lot of humanitarian work that needs to be done there.
Being sequestred in this sterile environment, it’s only natural that the views you have of the world are myopic.
Well said, Overseas Singapore! re point #31
31) Overseas Singaporean on January 19th, 2009 12.42 pm As for those criticizing the activists for selective activism for the dolphins and not other animals, I say just because you can’t save the world at once, does not mean you should not try to make it better, bit by bit.
At least, its better than naysayers who do nothing but throw stones without one iota of constructive action.
Dear everyone,
Please stick to the issue and not get personal. Please stop all the name-calling and derogatory personal references.
If this goes on, this thread will be closed for further comments.
Thank you.
Sadly, some of the opinions that have been posted here shows the mindset that some operate on; that by interfering with nature, we are doing the animals a favour (by keeping them confined in an area much much smaller than they are used to), we are saving their lives (when most of the threats they face are being caused by none other than mankind), we help the children learn more about them (which is more educational? Watching an animal swim in circles or watching them on a nature documentary filmed in their natural habitat). Its so asinine I don’t know whether to laugh, cry or scream in these people’s faces.
Oh BTW, the profits these people who lock them up (lets not kid ourselves; that’s the correct phrase to use here) are just a happy consequence of their noble intentions. Excuse me while I throw up.
Face it; these people are just motivated by one single thing: MONEY. They just use the spin doctoring and justification of helping the animals; captive research, helping children learn etc to cover their misdeeds and try to help them sleep better at night. And that’s pathetic and sad.
Panther, history is replete with stories of how humans stuff up nature when we try our ham-fisted attempts to interfere with nature. Just google Cane Toads Australia and recent news items on Macquarie Island. And that’s just for starters. Try to learn more about climate change and the issues endangering the world’s flora and fauna before posting blinkered views of people who are trying to change things for the better.
Thank you to the moderators for the reminder
I ain’t going to be you guys punching bag. So you guys claim me to be immature. I never claimed to what say I know everything. You speculated that assertion. Nor would I ever say I am knowledgeable. I am a nobody like all of you.
Can’t you all just drop these baseless accusations? So I am immature?
Haha~
Nvm.. I won’t bother replying since more than three-quarters of your comments are filled with personal insults.
“I won’t bother replying since more than three-quarters of your comments are filled with personal insult”
So reply to the remaining one-quarter lor, if you’re so convinced that you have valid points to rebut them.
You didn’t say in those words, that you know everything. But your failure to address the points brought up by other commenters in rebuttal to your points, while bringing out the same points over and over again, points to a refusal to back down despite evidence to the contrary.
And why should I put in the effort to identify the quarter? It isn’t the other way round okay.
I made no targetted attacks and still received personal insults. I never seemed to behave as a know-it-all. I just disagreed with some or a number of you people and this is the response; offense.
It’s not as though I questioned the way any of you thought harshly or insulted the intelligence of any. But you all are stooping down to doing that to me.
~sigh~
Dear everyone,
As I said in another thread, please stop the name-calling and derogatory personal insults.
If this carries on, this thread will be closed for further comments.
Panther, please be more circumspect in the language that you use.
Thank you.
Panther,
As a Singaporean who does not support the IR project, I have actually lobbied many friends working in the Private Equity and Investment Banking sectors to not finance the IR project at all. I even circulated an essay on why the IR would be a bad investment. I am doing my best within my means to help make the IR project a failure.
You can call people like us activists, yet you must recognise that we stand strong on our principles and do things within our means to minimise or a prevent a wrongdoing from happening. We are right in our own eyes, just as you feel you are right in your own eyes too. However, you must realise that TOC, TOC writers and TOC Commentators are 3 separate groups of individuals and you should not lump all 3 groups into a single organisation because TOC is merely a platform for airing views.
Is TOC anti-PAP? When PAP makes decision or floats ideas that the TOC Community welcomes, it gets publicised here. There is no absolute rejection of PAP on TOC. Being pro-Singapore, the TOC Community is definitely critical of PAP because PAP is the government of the day. Should one day WP become the government of the day, I am sure the TOC Community would be critical of the WP too.
Panther (#47),
As a Singaporean who objects against the IR project, I have lobbied intensely among friends and acquaintances who are senior managers in the Private Equity and Investment Banking sectors to not finance the IR project.
Activist or not, just like you, we are people who are backed by principles and opinions. We take actions in view to achieve our goals. Whether the actions succeed or not, we still take pride in our efforts. However, you should not lump all activists together because activists come from all walks of lives and do not necessarily share any common agenda.
TOC is merely a platform for airing opinions. TOC Editors, TOC writers and TOC Commentators are 3 distinct groups within the TOC Community. While editors’ opinions can be taken as TOC’s, you must take note that the writers’ opinions and commentator’s opinions do not represent TOC even if the opinions coincides with the editors.
Yes, let’s have a ceasefire, after rebuking Panther for some time, it is a waste of time.
But i have a query regarding the Marine Life Park, will it be like some other Marine Park whereby part of the ticket sales will be donated for research and conservation? because if they do, that will ease some of the sin.