Davin Ng
My first reaction was, “Sigh, Jews are attempting to re-enact the Holocaust on others.”
I’ve stopped caring about the Israel-Palestinian thing, really. They’re like two children fighting over a cookie jar, and have broken it two dozen times, the cookies are broken and full of glass bits but they’re still tumbling around the floor like morons.
Typical first reactions would be, “Hey, that’s not right! The Holocaust was the industrialized and mechanized mass-murdering of people. And what Israel does is far far away from that.”
Yes, that may be true, but has anyone ever considered how earlier events had turned out, on the year 1948 when the state of Israel was born?
In April 1948, the same month as the infamous massacre at Deir Yassin and the mortar attack on Palestinian civilians in Haifa’s market square, Plan Dalet was put into operation. This authorised the destruction of Palestinian villages and the expulsion of the indigenous population outside the borders of the state.
In July 1948, 70,000 Palestinians were driven from their homes in Lydda and Ramleh in the heat of the summer with no food or water. Hundreds died. It was known as the Death March.
In all, 750,000 Palestinians became refugees. Some 400 villages were wiped off the map. That did not end the ethnic cleansing. Thousands of Palestinians (Israeli citizens) were expelled from Galilee in 1956. Many thousands more when Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza. Under international law and sanctioned by UN resolution 194, refugees from war have a right to return or compensation. Israel has never accepted that right.
A lot of people in the West are utterly incapable of sympathy or solidarity with the Palestinians, because they are Muslim, because they are not white, because they look like the enemy in their own “War on Terror”. The cheerleading for Israel, no matter what they do, and the callous dismissal of Palestinian suffering with “they had it coming” is absolutely sickening.
It is spurious to compare Israeli actions with the Holocaust, or to equate IDF troops with Nazi Stormtroopers, there is no similarity in intention, or in scale, but like an abused child, the state of Israel reacts in an abusive way itself, born in violence it knows no other way to behave.
Insulated from the true disastrous impact of their actions by an impenetrable belief in their own victimhood, they refuse to acknowledge their responsibility, as the regional superpower, to exercise some moral leadership.
Until Israel grows up and stops being led by the nose by Hamas though cycle after cycle of violence and oppression, they will never be able to guarantee their citizens safety, and the Palestinians won’t be able to hope for any future at all.
- Development of nuclear weapons despite not being party to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty opened for signature on July 1 1968. North Korea has done the same, and the West is giving it hell. But not to Israel. It’s useless to give Israel trouble over it because the USA would immediately veto any discussions about it.
- Not recognizing the result of a democratically-elected government (Hamas), which Hamas admittedly got itself voted in out of merit in being more capable in providing basic services to their own people.
- An invasion into sovereign territory, Lebanon, where the United Nations would’ve slammed Israel right away if it was done by some other nation, like Iran. Useless to give Israel trouble about it because USA will immediately use its veto powers.
- Hemming in an entire populace and cutting them off from the outside world. Basically, a ghetto. UN may/may not give Israel trouble about it, but will be veto’d by USA anyway.
One may argue that Hamas is not an appropriate government for the Palestinians, but who are we to decide? Did Woodrow Wilson not declare self-determination for all during the formation of the League of Nations? Did the US military not invade two separate, sovereign nations and attempted to instill democracy to their political systems? Hamas’ election has been democracy in action, just as they desire to spread to the world, but they had rejected it.
For a nation that takes pride in its own armed forces being “Protectors”, “Liberators”, and “Warriors”, from that action mentioned above, it has become farcical to claim to be “Liberators” when they refuse to accept the results of a democratic election. It makes them no better than a certain Robert Gabriel Mugabe.
Is this all about US-bashing? No. What I do care about, is how people perceive human suffering. I will quote the US Constitution,
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
All men are equal. What sickened me is how people have been saying, “Ha ha! The IDF is going to kick some ass!” without pondering about the unfortunate misery and suffering this will endow unto even more people. Neither do I condone what the Palestinians have been doing with their rockets to Israel, but it’s not right at all to be crying out in joy when the other party strikes out to make things even worse than they already are.
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Soon Brittan will become Brittanistan and US the Americanistan. There is every possibility. They are not christian countries anymore. There are very few christians and so are most European countries .
If you care to visit Richard Hawkin’s website or blog you can hear or read his views
about religion.
In US there is running battle between creationist and evolutionist. Schools and colleges are teaching Darwinism. Christians are not allowed to wear any symbols of their religion but the scarf and tudang , turban are allowed. No wishing of merry christmas. it is banned or frowned upon.
So where do you think these countries are going.
I see some historian now resort to red herring! LOL
Oxford professor of international relations Avi Shlaim served in the Israeli army and has never questioned the state’s legitimacy. But its merciless assault on Gaza has led him to devastating conclusions.
This brief review of Israel’s record over the past four decades makes it difficult to resist the conclusion that it has become a rogue state with “an utterly unscrupulous set of leaders”. A rogue state habitually violates international law, possesses weapons of mass destruction and practises terrorism – the use of violence against civilians for political purposes. Israel fulfils all of these three criteria; the cap fits and it must wear it. Israel’s real aim is not peaceful coexistence with its Palestinian neighbours but military domination. It keeps compounding the mistakes of the past with new and more disastrous ones. Politicians, like everyone else, are of course free to repeat the lies and mistakes of the past. But it is not mandatory to do so.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-palestine
Are the Jews really Israelites?
God first made his covenant with Abram in Genesis chapters 12-18. In Genesis 17:4-7, God promised Abraham:
“As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations. I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.” (Bold added for emphasis)
According to the above, plus many, many more verses, God’s promise is immutable. But are the modern day Jews really the descendants of Abraham? If not then they are not eligible for God’s Covenant promises.
http://www.discerningtoday.org/members/Digest/2001digest/mar/are_the_jews_really_israelites.htm
Base on the above proof, there is no biblical justification for state of ISRAEL. The only reason ISRAEL exist is due to Zionism.
Ahxing Post#96;
You said it right.
This thread should be discontinued. The Subject Matter is infinitely controversial.
Except for one or two neutrals, the rest of the commenters were(are) religiously emotional and will not be able to help much in bringing peace to the Palestinian/Israelis conflicts.
Ultimately, sensibility must prevail if anyone wish to help in peace-making.
And
to anyone who takes side, he/she will only further aggravates and extends the conflict.
Let us here have peace by not taking the the conflicts of others here.
patriot
I can see many educated people over here with the arguments they posted to jusify the side they are in. However, they seems to forget that many people are dying under the bombs attack of israel.
Personally I’m very pessimistic that this conflict will ended. Even the UN successfully enforced a ceasefire on israel and hamas, similar outbreaks will happen over and over again in future.
The hatred had entrenched in the heart and soul of israelis and palestinians.
It’s a vicious cycle as someone had pointed out. Hamas rocketed israel and israel then retaliated with missiles and ground force. More People get killed and more suicide bombers out for revenge. AT the same time, muslims around the world noted and more wannabe extremists volunteered for terrorist work.
One day, the prophecy might come true. Perhaps then the world will have peace.
When it comes to religion and politics, nothing will come out right. People will chose to believe whatever they want as they take side. No more rational and intelligent. Victor always get to write the history , remember!
What matters now is that, one side is equiped with far too powerful weapons and the other side is trapped and slaughtered.
Let’s help to bring peace to the both countries and pray for them.
I would like to thank Davin Ng for opening this thread. It has been quite a learning experience for me.Google it…there’s lot of information out there.
I have posted before that the Jews or the Israelites are every where. They have ubiquitous presence. There are 2.5 billions or more , dispersed all over the world not just the 7 millions in Israel. You can exterminate the 7 million, another ‘hollowcause’ but not the rest.They have existed for few hundred thousand years with their culture intact just as God promised Abraham they will be KINGS of nations. To translate the word ‘kings’ it can mean presidents and prime ministers too. They are living among you. in China and India, in europe and asia and in great numbers like sands of the desert and the ocean and Yaweh is their God and only God. He has not changed his name nor adopted another name. He is the Yaweh of Abraham and the Yaweh
of his descendants. He was , He is and He will be Yaweh.
He is not like many today changing name to masquerade and to deceive,.
Ever wonder…………….if we can’t find PEACE here, in this website, what are the chances of finding one in Middle East?
Perhaps it is time to air my honest opinions. I support the Israeli government in pursuing their strategy. So what if there is collateral damage? It is the price Palestinians pay for supporting a terrorist organisation and electing it into parliament. It is also the price the Palestinians pay for their right to self-determination.
Whatever Israel is doing is to protect their citizens within what is possible offered by the IDF. It is just too bad that Palestine does not have proper military forces to defend itself. All it has is rag-and-tag militia which pledge allegiance to various political organisations. Now that Hamas is firing rockets from Gaza into Northern Israel, do you think the rockets arrived into Hamas’ hands overnight? No. The rockets were a planned attack whose logistics were possible during the earlier 6-month ceasefire between Hamas and Israel.
Until Palestinians stopped supporting Hamas and fully support the peace process, Palestinians’ deaths cannot be used to justify why Israel should stop until we have the terrorist organisation Hamas completely eradicated. Israel is doing the right thing to protect its citizens. Shame on Hamas who use civilians as human shields. If Hamas is truly a nationalist organisation, it would not use Palestinian civilians as human shields. Hamas is the true enemy of Palestine, not Israel. Israel is liberating Palestine of terrorism. Israel is doing a favour for Palestinians.
Smallvice585,
Im not so sure where you are from but obviously you are already blinded by bias news reports that obviously made you think this way.
“Israel is doing a favour for Palestinians”… well murdering more than 700 in less than a month, is in your view, a favour?
“Hamas is the true enemy of Palestine”…… Hamas is there to protect Palestine from being more destructed by the Israelis forces.
“Now that Hamas is firing rockets from Gaza into Northern Israel, do you think the rockets arrived into Hamas’ hands overnight? No. The rockets were a planned attack whose logistics were possible during the earlier 6-month ceasefire between Hamas and Israel.” …………… Dude, comparing the might and logistics of weapons Israel has against Hamas would be totally unfair. No matter how many missiles Hamas has, Israel has more. Funded and sponsored by USA, and with the existing of Nuclear weapons in Israel, is this a fair fight? Israels comes in Tanks and well equipped soldiers, does Hamas has A single Tank?
If Hamas were to lose out in this conflict then i shall be in tears for Palestine as the Israelis know, there are no longer resistance in Palestine to achieve their ultimate goal and that is to wipe out Palestine of Muslims and make it to an Israeli state.
Thats what happens in Native America, white men came, make friends with the native americans, know their secrets, weapons and weakness, destroy their strongest tribe and eventually wipe out the natives from the land when no longer a resistance.
A Thinking Singaporean (#114),
“Israel is doing a favour for Palestinians”… well murdering more than 700 in less than a month, is in your view, a favour?
Terrorist supporters and sympathisers are no more than accomplices to terrorist organisations simply by not rejecting terrorist organisations such as Hamas. There is always a price to pay for being a terrorist supporter/sympathiser, regardless if you are young, old, healthy, weak, rich or poor.
Hamas is there to protect Palestine from being more destructed by the Israelis forces
Hamas is using Palestinian human shields for its causes and you call this protecting Palestine from Israeli forces?
Dude, comparing the might and logistics of weapons Israel has against Hamas would be totally unfair. No matter how many missiles Hamas has, Israel has more. Funded and sponsored by USA, and with the existing of Nuclear weapons in Israel, is this a fair fight? Israels comes in Tanks and well equipped soldiers, does Hamas has A single Tank?
Unlike Hamas, Israel has legitimate rights to weapons and fundings because it is a country. A terrorist organisation simply does not have the legitimate rights to any weaponry regardless of its causes.
The Palestinians never missed the opportunity to reject peaceful openings. Back in the heydays, when the entire Israel-Palestine region was divided into 10% Israel and 90% Palestine, Palestine rejected the mandate Subsequently, the UN offered a new 50:50 division and Palestine rejected the division again. Today, it stand at 90% Israel and 10% Palestine and the Palestinians continue to reject.
Clearly, it is Palestinians who can’t seat through peaceful resolutions which would have avoided the bloodshed today. Hamas is the new cancer in the Israel-Palestine conflict and even surgical strikes to take out this cancer will result in collateral damage. Until Palestinians stop supporting Hamas and accept the land divide, there can be no peaceful progress.
A Thinking Singaporean(#114).
you are right to say that SHOULD be the goal of Israel to wipe out the Palestinains and once and for all to remove the pain in the neck so that there will be peace, no more resistance,. That was happend many centuries ago the Jews and the Christians could live in Muslim ruled countries peacefully because there was NO DESIRE or AMBITION of a statehood from these people. The Jews and Christians have no such idealogy of 3 state ideals.(the umrah)
Based on every Muslim’s duty premise to achieve the ideal state there will be no peace in Israel.
You are the one who is blinded by the fad belief and you are definitely not thinking hard enough .Peace is the ideal but on whose terms?
My point is whatever it is what happened in the middle-east is far beyond our reach…both of them will never listen to whoever is saying…even so the UN..
The ‘massacre’ by the israeli’s of over 700 palestinians civilians cannot be justified as a kinda self defence to protect Israeli citizens…
while the palestinians militants keep on rocketing israel in a very densely populated urban full of civilians is one of the factors that hamas should be responsible…and keep on denying…
I do not agree that religion whatsover should be brought in the episode…in the first place after careful reading I realised that the militans are using religion as a cover up for their act…no religion preach on violence…
Do take note that even us’our family tree’ is link to Middle East…what happened there if u noticed affected the whole world in general…
But as the casualty mounting each day,i noticed that the world can only sit and watch the slaughtering drama and events of self defence each day brought about idealogy of hatred.
Ashkenazi Jews are non-Israelites.
Research Proves “Jews” are non-Israelite Asiatics!
In 1976 Random House published a book that should have hit Modern Christian Churches like a block buster, but instead they chose to totally ignore it. It dealt with the racial origin of the people in Communist and Christian countries throughout the globe, who call themselves “Jews,” and whom many Churches (and Jews themselves) generally insist are “God’s Chosen People,” the descendants of Abraham.
Since the late 1800′s several Bible Scholars, who were also students of History and Racial origins, have insisted the Church denominations were wrong; that instead of being descendants of Abraham, Israelites, these Jews from Eastern Europe and Western Asia were descended from Mongolians and other Asiatic peoples who had adopted Judaism as their “religion” about 1,000 years ago and have become known as “Jews.”
These Bible scholars were for the most, ignored or condemned, and often called “cultists” or “anti-Semites.”
Now, after many years of research, a well-known ‘Jewish author’, Arthur Koestler has published a 255 page book titled THE THIRTEENTH TRIBE in which he proves the same point of the earlier scholars; i.e. that these Eastern European “Jews” are neither Israelites nor “Semites,” but are instead Khazars, Mongols, and people of Hun descent!
http://assemblyoftrueisrael.com/TruthPage/JewsarenotIsraelites.htm
This thread is now closed for further comments.
This is because some comments are inappropriate and are disparaging.