Today’s Blog Feature, is from Thinking Better, Thinking Meta, on National Service.
Here is an excerpt from the article, Defending what’s (y)ours!
I do not share the same definition of “ours” as the government and its self-professed state-independent military organisation do.
Most of us will not buy one morsel of the advertisement/infomercial. It is merely to justify what is already there. If such a segment is to advertise and provide information, then let it stand in a country where military service is voluntary. Let us see how many Singaporean men will sign up (maybe since times are bad, more will sign up voluntarily, we won’t know).
Make National Service voluntary, and you will see the extent to which people identify with the government’s message of “defending what’s ours”. Make it voluntary and you will get what people think about how things are run. Maybe in the advertisement/infomercial, there was a minute parenthesized “y” before the word “ours”. It sort of speaks from the perspective of the Singaporean male, wherein we are asked to defend the second person (yours) that is the state and its interests.
I personally do not believe in National Service. It tears me away from my family, my work and the things I love to do. I do not want to be part of any organisation that promotes and reinforces dominant gender norms and structures.
I am not willing to do defending what is “yours”. Because we have seen the way our Singaporean sons are forsaken and forgotten, and could have known even more, if not for the state secrecy and media machinery that protects the military organisation.
Read the rest of the article on Thinking Better Thinking meta.
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heard from a friend (maybe true, maybe not true) that some sons and daughters of prominent ministers took up PRs elsewhere. – #7) crap.
I will defend Singapore with my life because this is my home……A word to many bloggers here. If you think of relying on the government for help, should you rely on your children first? ….. – #19) Excited Ghim Moh resident.
… What makes a person patriotic? Personally I felt that it is when one feel there is something worth defending if ever an invasion is imminent. – #30) Observer(SG-HK) .
We all have our own opinions on NS but our opinions make no difference to the need to undergo NS. I am sure all of us will have no hesitation should the need arise that require us to defend our family and friends. But what if the things we defend are not lives but the infrastructure of the land we call home?
Lest anyone come bashing me again for making wild accusations; let me draw your attention to yesterday’s Sunday Times ‘Think’ article on page 27. We now know what our MM Lee thinks of NS as narrated by his own dear daughter Lee Wei Ling.
Ah, the joy of learning the minds of LKY from none other than his own children. Surely, he cannot accuse his daughter of defaming him?
This is what she said: “In 1975, the year South Vietnam fell…….there was serious talk (about emigration) among my paediatrician mentors.”
In the immediate paragraph, she talked about her father, LKY, making these comments in his capacity as PM of Singapore: “My parents called a family meeting in their bedroom soon after Saigon fell. My father, Mr Lee Kuan Yew, then Singapore’s Prime Minister, told us: Mama and I will stay here to the bitter end. Hsien Loong is already in the SAF and must do his duty. But the three of you need not feel obliged to stay“.
Wow! “Not obliged to stay“.
“In the end, the Vietnamese communist did not march down Peninsular Malaysia, Singapore thrived…..“.
Now you tell me, what are we defending? LKY, in his capacity as PM of Singapore, readily gave his own children the option to run away, when danger was imminent; while others like you and I, do not have this choice. Tell me, are we protecting the interests of the elites or our homeland, Singapore? How many of these elites will run off when real danger comes knocking? Do you know? I do have a picture in my head; do you?
‘Political power grows from the barrel of the gun’ Mao Tse Tung
‘Feed a soldier 100days and use him for 1 day.’ Ancient military wisdom.
Think about these two quotes. The issue about NS is how to make it relevant in our present day context, how many, how long and how much to pay them. Leave the thinking to those paid to do the thinking.
If they come out with good policies, say well done. If they come out with screwy policies, screw them. They are paid to do the job, not to go for long holidays.
Checked out the quotes from redbean (especially Mao’s) and have to agree to be mostly true. Putting ourselves in the region’s geopolitical chessboard, having a policy of national service is indirectly telling the people north and south of us to bugger off, or else we’d give them a bloody nose. It’s like being the lone Liverpool supporter having a beer bottle watching a game in a Manure bar. I don’t really need the drink, but f things get nasty, the bottle will come in handy….
Am I making any sense? Oh well, just two bloody points from the top….
(redbean : Are you a Kopite?)
FA Cup 4th Round Replay : Everton vs Liverpool (Goodison Park, Wed, 4 Feb 2009)
The formation of a National Defence Force, the Armies IS TO PROTECT THE PEOPLE AND THE COUNTRY
Without citizens, the people, there is no country to talk about, however, when the citizens are warned that the Army may have to act on the result of a election when and whereby Opposition won, using ‘freak result’ as an excuse, Singaporeans got to question their ‘blind loyalties’.
What is essentially reflected is that the Armed Forces are as ready to be used for preserving the Rule and Power of the Incumbent Regime and they are to be used for National Defence. What about our armed personnels sent to defend other country or worse to help in invasion instead of defence? I was reminded by other Singaporans that our soldiers ‘volunteered’ themselves, but, I cannot convinced myself that’s the case.
The Vietnam Wars themseves were not fully supported by all Singaporeans since the French was involved. When Singapore allowed the US to use Singapore as a base when it(US) invaded Vietnam, a high percentage of Singaporeans were against the US. Even today, the Vietnam Wars remain highly controversial to older Singaporeans.
If LKY had believed that his children and may I add his other kins and friends should leave Singapore IF war breakout in SIN, I say he is wise to make that arrangement. FOR I AM VERY VERY SURE MANY OTHER OF HIS FELLOW INHABITANTS HERE WILL DO THE VERY SAME. I WILL BE ONE MYSELF. I think it will be the norm for many. Anyway, I did my National Service in 1970, nearly forty years ago and I still hear as much grouses and exasperations from NS Soldiers in public transports and places. What’s more is that a lot of Singaporeans wish or hope to migrate. LOYALTY? I hardly sense it !
Without conscription does not mean that a country is defenseless. ONLY A MINORITY OF NATIONS HAVE CONSCRIPTION.
Going for breakfast and will be back to read more pledges.
patriot
hi patriot,
i pledge to run away first.
why should me, the unwilling, die for the ungrateful and the despicables?
4) Ajax on January 31st, 2009 1.03 pm
“People must ask themselves this question: why do we need 300,000+ NSFs & NS men to protect a nation of 4 million and an island of 700 square km? ”
We need 300,000 + NSFs & NS so more Top scholars and PAP elites will be groomed as their Generals who are the loyal supporters of the ruling party.
Hi,
This has always been an interesting topic…
let’s imaging…we modify the current system.
in the begining we slowly phase out the current compulsory NS system with a modified, an all professional force.
The idea is not to force but to attract with given:
1) Life long pension.
2) Life medical cover for self (90/10) and family (50/50)
3) HDB housing grant (max 2 times – 1st and resale)
4) Tertiary education grant for children (poly/NUS/NTU/SMU/ SAFTI U (future))
5) etc…
6) etc…
conditions:
1) serve 4 years full time (NSF), followed by
2) 6 years active operational reserve (NSmen), followed by
3) 10 years homeland defence (Territorial Army/TA format) in 1/2 PDA / reserve brigade or until 45y/o and 55y/o OR and Officer respectively. Official discharge.
NSF as per current stay-in personnel. NSmen with ICT/ops manning as per current but more intense (with overseas deployment). homeland defence personnel step-down training (expect a lot of down grade due to medical conditions)…
Airforce/Navy remains 100% regular.
Army
Infantry/Armour/Gurads (Airborne) divisions (4 brigade divisions) + 1/2 PDF divisions. Total (6 divisions [3 brigade] format). Yes, SIngapore Guards will go airborne! SOF/Commandos separate structure from divisions. Augmented by support arms, training institute, HQ, etc….
Yes, that means a force reduction. But budget wise….???
haha…so silly…thanks anyway.
I believe alot of people here agree in doing National service but the question is ; to do it fairly and efficiently so that employment and family life would be the least affected.
Can they cut the NSF duration – Why not? Do you really need to serve as storeman for 1year plus or maybe lobo without vocation due to despairing pes status? Even a fit soldier don’t go for combat training every single day!
How about NSmen service cycle? – Why not call up for only core duties and compress the time slated per year? Bear in mind it takes lots of money to activate unit and to re-imburse employers..
To have national service is a deterrence for impending invasion. Every country has to take up the initiative to build a defence for its people.
The SAF doctrine is to enable Singapore to hold the fort for 2 weeks at the most, during which it is hoped that the U.N. will step in and intervene. SIN used to have a non-aligned policy and LKY used to boast that he can give the British forces 24 hrs to leave if he has to prove how non-aligned he was. Over time, LKY often openly endorsed US foreign policy and power balance in SE Asia, and lately, he even spoke at the WEF (I think) where he unabashedly spoke of a McCain/Republican win as a more positive development for SEAsia. He was already no doubt a great Bush fan, and while everybody criticised Bush for his foolish venture into Iraq, LKY was defending him.So now I dunno how forcefully-that is if at all willingly-he can tell the US to f*** off. Most likely seems he wont, as having a US base here is advantageous to SIN, cos anybody that hits SIN hits US, and he’ll then have a “tai kor” to come tohis rescue. Dont forget the terrorists who were arrested in SIN for planning to blow up the US base here.
So you see,LKY is shrewd and opportunistically so.
#54, I served over 2 yrs parttime nS, then 2.5 yrs fulltime then over numerous 10 yr cycles, 5 yr cycles, and 13 yr cycles asa reservist until I was discharged at age of 50! If ur other rank, you serve till 45. Reservist service was enjoyable because you meet all kinds of people from various social and economic classes. I have met over the years Hokkien ping, triad gangsters, faggots, bank VPs, corp execs, bookies, runners, businessmen, but we were a great lot back then! Then, the Dir Manpower at Mindef was a Corporal in the reserve, so was Wong Kan Seng.
No government has the right to tell its people to do something against their will. Most sinkee males hate NS. The problem here is that we cannot vote out this government. I don’t think we need NS. My own NS has been miserable and opened my eyes to the ‘real’ singapore – it made me decide to migrate. My sons will never be slaves to any dictator.
What is the likelihood that we will be attacked? Contrast with the present need to free up men earlier to compete in the new economy. Doesn’t it make sense to abolish NS??
I have done national service in 1996- 1998 for 2 years and 4 months.
I personally think that I have benefited greatly. I learned to be more independent. I gained new perspectives by interacting with people from different cultures and social class etc…
However, I also think 2 years and 4 months are too long !!! There are basically nothing much to do when there are no exercises. We are basically just waiting for ATEC 1 and ATEC2. Spent a lot of time in the bunk doing what we call “body maintenance”.
Now into my final reservist cycle…. I also think reservist is a damn waste of time if not for the opportunity to meet up with old friends.
Can’t help but wondering what if I had not served the 2 years and 4 months. I could have moved up the Corporate ladder much faster. 2 years and 4 months also represent 2 years and 4 months of wages lost. (whcih is very substantial based on my current annual pay… at least to me…)
I find it amusing that some pple claim NS “builds character” yadda yadda.
Going by this logic, Singapore males should be very “manly” compared to a lot of our FT males… hahahaha….
Hi Me;
we have companies, plenty of them.
For forty over years, I have been talking to Singaporeans about National Service.
There were and are supporters, but few and far in between. Also, do not forget those that believed Singapore is indefensible, quite many too.
I am all to die for my love ones here, in war or in my daily living. But I must confess I am incapable of blind belief, loyalty and lip services.
Many do not need to be in the armed forces to be man or a better social animal, one is surrounded by all kinds of other people in this compact society, if one is kind and sociable, there should be no difficulty getting along with others. Manhood does not mean one has to fight or be violent or behave like Tarzan nor to take any orders, reasonable or otherwise, from superiors(higher ranks), quite the contrary is true. When one goes around to boast his manliness, he is likely to put off others around.
Let’s show loyalty and manliness when the time comes. Now, we can make all kinds of claims. However, National Service affects the live of many young men, it deserves to be seriously looked into. One question I like to ask is how much are we(in the armed forces) trusted by our leaders when Gurkhas are employed to guard vital installations?
The Armies, as far as I see, should and shall never confront the very people(citizenry) they are to protect. Any mention of such deployment is deplorable and SINful.
patriot
Singaporeans are becoming the minority in their own country. Scholarships are given to foreigners who will eventually become part of our elite rulers. PRs are given easily and there is no difference between citizenship and PR. More and more places in Singapore are becoming unrecognizable and inaccessible by Singaporeans.
Is there a need to defend our country physically when it has already been sold out and invaded by foreigners?
bact : You got me! How did I miss that one? Must be still giddy after the Chelski game last night. It’s all Robbie Keane’s fault….
FA Cup 4th Round Replay : Everton vs Liverpool (Goodison Park, Wed, 4 Feb 2009)
National Service or PAP Service ?
Spent 2.5 yrs loitering in camps and forgot everything I learnt in JC. When enrolled in Uni then realized kena con by PAP. After grad determine to work hard and save $ to migrate to other country. Almost there then the economic crisis hit hard. Lost most my investment but still have to pay for HDB, GST, ERP etc etc. Now can forget about migrate and just pray dun lose my job. At my age I can only hope to compete with china worker in coffee shop. CPF is biggest PONZI SCHEME as you’ll never meet the minimum sum and may not live that long to enjoy it. Body not as fit and have to visit SGH once a week to check on heart. Recently not enough medisave asked to pay cash. No cash they ask you come back another day. Here in SG can die cannot sick. Unlike in other country compulsary free medical service. Heard in JB can see doctor for RM1.
To youngster out there, see clearly with eyes big big. Our PAP is smart in marketing. But dun believe 100% they say. In my times they also promise golden retirement. But see where I am now. Be smart and make the right choice. Migrate if you can. If no save up for raining day. Convert to US dollar or gold. Dun hold Sg dollar. PAP wont take care of you. They are happier if you die early if you are poor. Now they even legalise medial suicide to pave the path for elders. Legal suicide save PAP a lot $. In future they may encourge it, even give out cash to family who agreed to send their parents for legal suicide. Its just sad, very very sad to see this.
i think TOC needs to review the kind of articles they present. Why are most of the articles here so overtly critical of the country? – Xiong (#43)
The reason is actually quite simple. There is no TOC writer who is inspired to defend government policies. You are welcomed to be the first among many to defend government policies as a TOC writer. Would you?
Anyway, the government does have its own equivalent of TOC and it is called Straits Times. Read Straits Times for defending government policies and read TOC for criticising government policies, then make your own balanced judgement whether government policies are actually appropriate, timely and they make sense.
Unlike Straits Times, TOC does not impose any opinion on its writers.
Yes, all singaporeans are being conned into believing the papees govt will look after your welfare. If fact, they are all the while plannng and scheming on all the citizens by using the MSM to paint a totally different picture. Talking about CPF? my goodness, do you guys know that they keep changing the policy and start confusing the people with all kinds of rubbish that I believe majority of us do not even know what is actually happening to our cpf monies……they are all as good as GONE GONE GONE!!! First, they promised us all the wonderful things from our CPF contributions, NOW, they take all away……. but for the papees themselves, they dun even need the cpf, their self approved $millions salaries already can last them a lifetime, so you think you still can have your cpf savings back? STOP DREAMING SINGAPOREANS!
43) Xiong on February 2nd, 2009 3.14 am
i think TOC needs to review the kind of articles they present. Why are most of the articles here so overtly critical of the country?
Edward R. Murrow:
We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it.
If you feel the views are invalid, please feel free to share your points.
Regards.
Conscription is an act against human-rights. Period. Many people have different reasons for being pro or anti NS. Personally, during my NS stay, what I’ve witnessed is regulars & DXOs pushing work to NSFs, while they get the bonus & salary. It’s tough for NSFs with poor family backgrounds to survive on crap allowance. & why is it NSFs gettin’ crap allowance have to wash regulars & DXOs’ asses? I’m not saying all of ‘em are like that, but I met many of ‘em who’s like that during the most miserable time of my life, my NS time.
Now that I think of it, there’s not a single timeframe in my life that’s worse than NS. Crap allowance, no personal time, forced to belong to an organization, being bossed around without retaliation for fear of being charged with insubordination. What could be worse than this? I can think of no other.
I used to be a real loyal military man. Some people who saw me, even thought I must be sick in the head to love the army. And I was just a LCP. Since young, I studied military strategies and tactics, aspiring to be a officer in the service of my Singapore. Sad to say, I failed due to my poor qualifications of ‘O’ levels. lost my self-esteem as a person who saw his childhood dream shattered.
Thankfully, I had very kind and understanding superiors who brought me up to get back on my feet again. Without them, I might not be here where I am today.
Maybe they were also worried of me doing something silly and get dragged down cos of me. Nonetheless, I must still say thank you to the SAF.
However in the face of globalization, loyalty to country is no longer blind unconditonal loyalty anymore. I went to America and got exposed to different cultures. I see the convergence of cultures and found it not hard to envision that the world will be one unified country one day at least 100 years later.
What a great thing that will be ! no more wars. Or Maybe we should unify together for a common sustainable environment and economic development now ! againist economic crisis and global warming that are affecting all nations, instead of being consumed by our petty differences. I know I am sounding too idealistic maybe.
So I am starting to remove some of my formerly militaristic thinking to be in line with a global citizen and cooperation thinking. also kinda inspired by obama. also agree with Edward Murrow. America has a lot of soul in it despite being a money-minded society with a larger income gap , education disparity and differing standards across the states.
I am trying to see what is the Singapore’s soul. Whether it is still worthwhile to be a Singaporean ? Is Singapore still worth defending at all ? to the point of my last dying breath that I have in this life ? In reference to Alfian Bin Saat’s words “”If you care too much about Singapore, first it’ll break your spirit, and finally it will break your heart.”
For the next 10 years at least and 15 years max, I will still care for Singapore and will not give up on her. I wait and see what happens . If I really feel alienated and better opportunities elsewhere, I will leave. If I still find that Singapore is the best place for me , I will stay. Love and loyalty must be mutual 2 way thing.
is Singapore like Israel ? remembered we had Israeli help in setting up our army .
Screw you all. NS still has practical benefits. You learn to fight, you learn to fire guns, and you theoretically learn to kill and protect yourself. If the whole world goes to shit, you will be glad that you went for NS.
So I am going for NS, voluntary or not. Not to defend the ministers, but to defend fellow Singaporeans. Singaporeans like all of you. Singaporeans who have had enough, and TRULY care about the country. You obviously cannot depend on the PAP to take care of you, what’s to stop them from evacuating when war breaks out? So why not, ahem, upgrade yourself with the relevant skills, and have less dependance on the overpaid and underworked assholes.
And about NS’s masochistic nonsense, just take a zen like attitude called “not giving a shit” and know “The Truth”, which is that the generally unreasonable leadership have no penises, and you can take comfort with the knowledge that even though you follow their shit, you still have a bigger dick.
Sorry for the foul language, i feel a need to release them all :D
@64 orange11
thank you for spelling it all out nicely, it couldn’t have been phrased better than that.
2 years in NS is acceptable, but condolences to the many who have to drag themselves to IPPT and RT for the years to come.
My only regret in serving NS is having to do it in a country like Singapore. A country that takes its citizens for granted and screws its own people to cover up for the mistakes of its leaders.
Quote `NS still has practical benefits?…you will be glad that you went for NS’.
“So I am going for NS, voluntary or not. Not to defend the ministers, but to defend fellow Singaporeans.”
there is no need to camouflage the true message behind those words. practical and glad to go NS? ha!
Defend fellow Sporeans only or a big chunk of free-loaders fighting to be PRs to compete jobs with Sporeans but not wanting to be citizens here.?
It is true that NS makes young Singaporeans grow to think. After one has returned to civilian life, one is readily equipted with a more mature thought on the expection of his future employer and allows an individual think really hard on what he wants in life. Just like – 69) young singaporean grateful. (how sad a young patriot has plans to make his exit)
If an individual is not one of the elites, ones will begin to notice that the experience gained in NS is just too shallow to compete with the foreigners who have been working since graduated. For example, the simple fact of bureaucracy structure of the army would likely to stifle creativity and improvement of a person or the difference in job scope.
NS is no doubt a great sacrifice to a Singaporean. This is especially true after one has ORDed. Work committment and family committment has already been quite a tiring matter. With all the extras like IPPT, call ups and reservist to comply to, has put on more stress onto an already overstretched rubberband.
To make matter worse, foreigners begin to flood into all industries. Recuiting foreigners to save Singaporeans’ jobs is seen to be an excuse more than a reason. I shall not repeat the other reasons for that male singaporeans are not properly compensated for their NS commitment as they have been stated by other viewers in previous occasions or seen to be worse off as compared to a foreigner.
Hence, it is not suprising that national identity is not what most youngsters believed in these days. Perhaps, this is the result of the “growth at all cost” policy. This is rather sad.
NS = Non-Sense
It makes no sense to defend / fight for those who take away your rights, your rice bowl, your career opportunities or even your dignity.
Sometimes, we have to recognise who our real enemy is. He is the one who actually steal your choices, kill your dreams and destroy your hopes – the potential imaginary “enemy” that the former tries so hard to paint in your mind.
Correction to No 80. – forgot to include the word “NOT” – as capitalised below
NS = Non-Sense
It makes no sense to defend / fight for those who take away your rights, your rice bowl, your career opportunities or even your dignity.
Sometimes, we have to recognise who our real enemy is. He is the one who actually steal your choices, kill your dreams and destroy your hopes – NOT the potential imaginary “enemy” that the former tries so hard to paint in your mind.
Singapore is a beautiful place worth protecting…and to fully benefit from living in the best place in the world, YOU MUST NOT BE BORN SINGAPOREAN….esp. male…
Compare with the rest of the world. Singapore’s public transportation makes more money, public housing makes more money, ministers make more money….while the citizens who are not part of the elite group struggles…..
Serving NS what in reality are you protecting? The houses and money of the ministers and rich PR whom will run back to their home countries at the first sign of trouble? Your 99 year govt leased HDB despite sucking you dry for 30 years still not truly yours? The MRT tracks which will return to sucking more money afterany trouble? What exactly are we protecting?
Singapore has lost it’s meaning as a country. It has become a place whereby foreigners, talent or not come in and rape it of it’s money and f off. A place whereby being a foreigner is better than being a citizen cause being a citizen end up doing more and getting less. The only thing as citizens we are getting is a royal screwing in the ass by the Govt.
Make money and leave if you can….. If you cannot, then vote against the establishment as what else can make this current situation worst?
#51, “In the immediate paragraph, she talked about her father, LKY, making these comments in his capacity as PM of Singapore: “My parents called a family meeting in their bedroom soon after Saigon fell. My father, Mr Lee Kuan Yew, then Singapore’s Prime Minister, told us: Mama and I will stay here to the bitter end. Hsien Loong is already in the SAF and must do his duty. But the three of you need not feel obliged to stay“.
Could you do all of us a service by reproducing the whole article here pls? I’mone of those who have stopped paying money to read the sycophantic Press.
#83
http://sgblogs.com/entry/ling-what-keeps-rooted-singapore/283042
Loyalty is won by the heart of leaders, not by the rule of law.
I have served my nation of Singapore, completing the full two and half years mandatory National Service, and thereafter completing my reservist training followed by NSmen service for a total of 13 years plus one as a key appointment holder in my combat unit.
I have served with pride and honour as an officer and a leader of men from my twenties till my late thirties and early forties.
But today, going into the fifties, I am becoming a Stateless Singaporean, choosing to relocate or work overseas at every opportunity given, than to stay on for a noble cause.
Last year my sons at 13 and 15 years old were given an opportunity to study in international schools, in a foreign land. After 6 months away from the Singapore, both had decided on their own free will, that they do not miss out on our world class education system.
They enjoy the subjects that are taught by the teachers, with no outright streaming or segregation of the elites by the schools. My eldest son, who has picked up the electric guitar as a hobby in Singapore is now playing his electric guitar as an elective subject for his studies under an IB accredited program. My youngest son who was an “EM3″ student and a categorised failure of a local government school has for the first time in his life expressed his desire to study and not be treated as an outcast in a system of collective punishment.
Strangely everybody is treated equally and with respect at that age in this foreign land that is not ours to call.
Despite their joys and enlightening experience of staying abroad, I have specifically reminded both sons that they have to return to Singapore to serve the nation like myself.
But this time not with Pride, Honour or Loyality to the country. They have to serve because I do not want them to be criminals of the system and thereby ruin their lives like many have done before.
I have encouraged them to go and explore beyond our borders, that they may decide, if want to stay on as Singaporeans or likewise to return as a Foreign Talent like many others who have benefited from their speculation of property and investment here.
Like most NSmen, who had served the nation faithfully in their life time, I do ponder and asked myself, if there be any meaning of serving the country, when the country is no longer ours to serve.
Why are we protecting Foreign Talents and PRs who gets more out of the system than us Singaporean? Sigh….
To those who say that NS helps in building your maturity and preparing you for real life. How true is that? In countries where there is no NS, like USA, you see much more entrepreneurs, people with big ideas, people willing to confront wrongdoing. In sg, NS seems to shrink the balls of sg boys. They become cowardly and meek, lacking even the guts to scold the rude foreigner on the MRT for bad behaviour.
I have always seen NS has a tool for the PAP to subdue and control our men. At 18-20 years old, boys are the most hot blooded and will fight for any loose cause. Give them NS+reservist and they are now ruled by fear!
For the record, I did have suicidal thoughts to end my life cos I was devastated to see my dreams shattered. Plus my poor ‘O’ Levels, it was a big double whammy of 2 knives stuck in my heart and mind .
In reference to 85) stateless Singaporean, I do have grouses about the Singapore education system. Well, I had to take ‘O’ Levels 4 times . The first attempt – I had only 3 ‘O’ Levels , only fit to go to ITE. I remembered being abandoned out there in the cold by the system. My secondary school teacher branded me as a failure of the education system. I felt useless that I will never amount to anything great in life.
Thankfully for me, I recovered from my depression and suicidal attempt with the help of some officers, sgts and fellow men from my unit. The SAF psychiatrist was also pretty empathetic about my case. He even got me to go through a psychological IQ test to help me find out what’s my strengths and weaknesses. So I can gradually lose the huge inferiority complex that I had.
I realized that everybody has his own strengths and weaknesses. It is just how you use what you have in your hands for the prevailing situation. Nobody is born entirely smart or stupid. Circumstances play a big part.
When I managed to get into a American university where they accept “O” levels as the minimum entry and “A” levels as exemptions aka Advanced placements. I fought very hard to prove myself that I can make it. True, American education is very flexible and gives freedom and empowerment to the people. However, I realized that it was the Singapore education system’s tough foundations that made me battle-hardened and thus able to do well in studies. I recognized this and thus must give due credit to the Singapore education system despite my numerous troubles in it. Since young , I engaged in bitter rivalry with my primary and secondary school classmates over academics . Beat them in PSLE and lost to them in “O’ Levels . In America, I was surprised by some Americans’ nonchalent attitude towards learning. Some professors were even too laissez faire.
May I know which country you gone to ? Stateless Singaporean. Australia ? UK ?
? Hmm Online citizen should do a report on Singapore education system for us to discuss . Recently, MOE are scrapping the big exams for P1 and P2 . We should debate on this . About Singapore’s education system. Nonetheless, it is world class without a doubt.
In overall conclusion to this date, I am indeed undecided yet between loyalty to country and gratefulness to the SAF vs globalization and the feeling of liberation and empowerment I outside of Singapore (America). This is why I am giving myself 10-15 years to see whether it is still worthwhile to see Singapore as my home beyond that. Also researching on other countries’ cultures and their systems to compare and analyze, Canada, UK, Australia , China ,Msia etc etc .
I was also quite irked to read about Mindef’s refusal to pay for the comatose storeman and the parents had to sue mindef to get the money for their son’s medical bills.
But now, all servicemen were given $20 pay increase for automatic insurance of 100 k . at least this is some protection welfare.
How many of our children has NS maimed or killed? Aren’t they being maimed/ killed by friendly fire? I totally agree with Bern #89 that it was shocking that they tried to get out of their responsibility of paying for the NS boy who was badly injured. They are rubbing salt into the wound. What if that boy had been a white horse? Would they have tried to deny liability?
Hi Young Singaporen Grateful
Thank you for sharing your plight and faithful endurance of the World Class education system and your trumatic psychological experience of your youth and adulthood in Singapore. The truth definitely speaks for itself.
Yes, I am also thankful for my National Service because it had provided with the ability to plan strategically and to foresee forthcoming adversities, to be bold and visionary.
As you have mentioned, the American System is one that allows “failures” like yourself to find the opportunity to achieve and to regain your confidence. Desipte your observation or experience of the inadequacy of the American Society, you would not have done better, if you were to continue losing your battles locally.
No doubt we can be battle-hardened, but ultimately will you win the war?
Any strategy to win wars, or to achieve a dream has to be planned and executed with conditions in your favour. As you have shared in your comments, your conditions changed only when you decided to seek out the American System of education.
You have rightly emphasised the frustation and time consuming efforts the system imposed upon us, despite our untapped abilities and never say die attitude of a Singaporean.
Time and Opportunity will wait for no man. So I will share with my sons or other like minded young Singaporeans, my wisdom and/or folly for them to decide, so that they may benefit for what it is worth.
I belive with only one life time , we are worth more than a $20 pay increase of our NSmen pay for an automatic insurance coverage of 100 k.
.Hi Stateless Singaporean,
Well, it is nothing . I seen people who are far worse than me. I have a old secondary school friend who done well in ‘O’ levels but bombed big time in ‘A’ levels . At the time when I did badly in ‘O’ levels, I felt inferior to him and he was a good friend who did not look down on me, unlike some pple. I did not know how to comfort him when he did badly in ‘A’ levels except to use my case to emphasize that he was not the worst one. Later, he went to poly and now studying in NTU (he belongs to a lower-income family and thus cannot afford to go overseas). I told him to go all the way in Phd for his field of biochem engineering. As for me, I am also thinking of going all the way to Phd – this time not for academic competition but for my love of satisfying my intellectual pursuits and curiosity.
In BMT, I knew one guy who did not even complete PSLE if my memory is correct.
Another friend whom I know in ITE night school, only completed PSLE but later went to do secondary school education in ITE night school till ‘O’ levels. Now he is even pursuing a distance education degree in IT. The other friend went to ITE and subsequently poly. The other one did not pass ‘O’ levels and gave up.
What I learned from this lesson is that life is like a marathon, not a 100 m race.
The way the Singapore education system is done like a 100 m race. Inevitably, a significant number of pple get behind. We are a pragmatic society where qualification matters a lot. Hence a lot of pressure and conformity . To each his own.
In America, the people emphasize freedom for individuals. The education is not uniform , varying standards on a state and local basis. Indeed, there is a big disparity in educational standards, public school vs private schools etc. I once met a Upenn student who was totally homeschooled by herself ! I seen pple taking on multiple degrees as a perpetual student. So I felt no pressure and unconstrained in the American system. of course, freedom comes with responsibility. Hence the feeling of liberation and empowerment.
If TOC really do a report on the Singapore education system, I will have tons to share with everyone. Better yet, do a survey. I felt very heartened to read about Mr Lim Wah Guan’s case. Hope that I can be like him.
For the next 10-15 years(25 years old now), I shall see whether I can still survive in Singapore and fulfill my dreams. I had come to realize that ” Nation before community and community above self” is no longer feasible. “Nation’s interests and community’s interests being compatible with the personal self-interest” is more realistic and feasible. If I really cannot pursue my aspirations here, I will have to leave. Life is just too short to be forced to stay in one place. Unconditional blind loyalty no longer exist in today’s globalized world. Conditonal contractual loyalty is in. I am a ‘mercenary’ professional , just practicing meritocracy and pragmatism taught by Singapore.
I just take it that I owe Singapore and SAF a favor and repaying back with at least 10 years worth of taxes , work and various contributions. Once my ‘bond’ is done, I have the option to leave Singapore if I find better places to live my life. Very fair deal. What I see from Singapore, is exactly what Singapore gonna get from me.
Stateless Singaporean, Which country do u and your sons staying now ? Care to share more ? really
What is worth definding? Our flats, hawkers’ centres, Shenton Way? For those who intend to take the first flight out of Singapore if a war breaks out, who is going to prevent agressors from rolling their tanks into our island and rape our mothers, wives, sisters, daughters, girlfriends?? Let’s really hope the day never comes, and one sure way is to serve NS proudly and send the right message to the world – don’t play with us. Think about it, if NS was not made compulsory 4 decades ago, and if Singapore did not build up a strong defence, we probably would have been refugees!
Anyway, I ROD-ed in 1986 after serving 30 months. Up till today, my platoon guys still call me for regular get-together. I was their Platoon Commander.
in today’s increasingly globalized world and war being more of a technological intensive affair , not labour intensive affair. we just press the button and the machines will do the rest of the job. This is gonna be the 4G SAF in my mind – in fact of any other military in the world. War is becoming a impersonal and less emotional business with more rationale.
So Mindef should look towards abolishing NS in time to come. For a fully professional military and can save money and excessive labor. Technology as the force multiplier.
Of course, the govt will have to find other ways to retain the loyalty of Singaporeans.
interesting debate covering in depth . Thanks for all of you’s input.
This will go into the records of my independent study for Singapore .
Is Singapore still worth defending at all ? This is the question that each of us must ask ourselves.
In this age of globalization and increasingly borderless world, the world is converging and the world’s economic crisis and environment problems is going to need global-coordinated solutions with global cooperation .
No more wars, peace . convert all the world’s military budgets to solve the environment crisis and economic imbalance.
Yes I do agree with Bernard-Young Singaporean that wars today will be a technological affair. Artillery guns are now replaced by guided missles for greater precision, and reducing collateral damages; recce missions are done via unmanned vehicles ( or “birds” ); battle tanks are equipped with much sophisticated accesories, etc etc.. Sure, technological advantages greatly determine the outcome of wars. Then again, let’s get real. Armies still need soldiers to comb and clear pockets of enemies. Thus the term MOUT-Military Operations in Urban Terrains. By tne way, still remember how Saddam Hussein was finally found?
If NS were to be abolished tomorrow, how would the relationship between Singapore and her neighbours be affected? If Israel did not have NS, how could she have survived as a nation all these years?
No sane person wants war. But there are many insane people, and insane nations. How are we going to deter them? The key is “to deter” in order to avoid confrontations. Similarly, for a person to avoid being bullied, one good way is to build up strength and muscles. To show off? No, but to deter. Have you seen any street punks challenge a beefy bloke to a one-on-one showdown?
go debate in http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/02/total-defence-–-total-control/
James Tan,
If you tell me this story #93 7 yrs ago, I may have believe in you but if you tell me this story now, I do not know how much I can believe in you. I only can agree that I would fight for my family and thats all. Any more than that, it is the duty of the foreigners.
Thanks tiredman. I am sure you must have reasons for the “7 yrs” issue. Care to share? Anyway, you STILL WILL defend your family. I think that’s really good enough. As for foreigners defending our nation, I believe it must have got something to do with the 7 years issue ?
Come on , James give your 2 cents on whether total defence is total control ?