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	<title>Comments on: Everyone obeys the law</title>
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	<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/01/everyone-obeys-the-law/</link>
	<description>a community of Singaporeans</description>
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		<title>By: good laws have to be respected</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/01/everyone-obeys-the-law/comment-page-1/#comment-112936</link>
		<dc:creator>good laws have to be respected</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 08:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=4658#comment-112936</guid>
		<description>&quot;Sometimes, the whole purpose and meaning of the Rule of Law is gone.&quot;

Good laws ought to be respected. However, bad pieces of law should not command the same degree of respect accorded to good law, even though they possess the &#039;good name&#039; of this thing called law.

And talking about the whole purpose and meaning, indeed we really need to know the purpose and meaning else we will be led astray.. 

&quot;We have a constitutional system where laws are passed by Parliament and everyone obeys the law.&quot;

21st century demands 21st understanding &amp; mindset. Once law is passed, it is very difficult to undo - there are too many faces to save. 

Indeed, we do have very nice &amp; serious concepts (institutions) in the form of what we call constitutional system &amp; Parliament.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Sometimes, the whole purpose and meaning of the Rule of Law is gone.&#8221;</p>
<p>Good laws ought to be respected. However, bad pieces of law should not command the same degree of respect accorded to good law, even though they possess the &#8216;good name&#8217; of this thing called law.</p>
<p>And talking about the whole purpose and meaning, indeed we really need to know the purpose and meaning else we will be led astray.. </p>
<p>&#8220;We have a constitutional system where laws are passed by Parliament and everyone obeys the law.&#8221;</p>
<p>21st century demands 21st understanding &amp; mindset. Once law is passed, it is very difficult to undo &#8211; there are too many faces to save. </p>
<p>Indeed, we do have very nice &amp; serious concepts (institutions) in the form of what we call constitutional system &amp; Parliament.</p>
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		<title>By: Too Smart Govt Bad For Citizens</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/01/everyone-obeys-the-law/comment-page-1/#comment-112920</link>
		<dc:creator>Too Smart Govt Bad For Citizens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 06:06:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=4658#comment-112920</guid>
		<description>The more the Mugam or Lingum opens his mouth, the more I am afraid.

Afraid that this is really the decline of the real values in our society;

Afraid that this is the degradation of our system of government;

Afraid that this is the demise of our society which has been built-up so painstakingly over the last 50 years by our hardworking old folks, who are now being sidelined and/or discarded by the elites and the boot-lickers for their own selfish interests, under the guise of national interests.

Afraid that one day I will have to emigrate to another country, for the sake of my children&#039;s future.

So, HELP US GOD! We need your divine intervention urgently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The more the Mugam or Lingum opens his mouth, the more I am afraid.</p>
<p>Afraid that this is really the decline of the real values in our society;</p>
<p>Afraid that this is the degradation of our system of government;</p>
<p>Afraid that this is the demise of our society which has been built-up so painstakingly over the last 50 years by our hardworking old folks, who are now being sidelined and/or discarded by the elites and the boot-lickers for their own selfish interests, under the guise of national interests.</p>
<p>Afraid that one day I will have to emigrate to another country, for the sake of my children&#8217;s future.</p>
<p>So, HELP US GOD! We need your divine intervention urgently.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/01/everyone-obeys-the-law/comment-page-1/#comment-44098</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:21:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=4658#comment-44098</guid>
		<description>Read how CSJ responded to AG, CJ and LawMin.

http://yoursdp.org/index.php/perspective/special-feature/1681-chee-responds-to-cj-ag-and-law-minister</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Read how CSJ responded to AG, CJ and LawMin.</p>
<p><a href="http://yoursdp.org/index.php/perspective/special-feature/1681-chee-responds-to-cj-ag-and-law-minister" rel="nofollow">http://yoursdp.org/index.php/perspective/special-feature/1681-chee-responds-to-cj-ag-and-law-minister</a></p>
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		<title>By: Copy from SDP website</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/01/everyone-obeys-the-law/comment-page-1/#comment-43579</link>
		<dc:creator>Copy from SDP website</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 11:19:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=4658#comment-43579</guid>
		<description>The constitutional issue is Article 14:

[start]

Freedom of speech, assembly and association
14. —(1) Subject to clauses (2) and (3) —

(a) every citizen of Singapore has the right to freedom of speech and expression;

(b) all citizens of Singapore have the right to assemble peaceably and without arms; and

(c) all citizens of Singapore have the right to form associations.

[end]

While Article 14(1) is subject to subclauses 14(2) and 14(3), which are:

[start]

(2) Parliament may by law impose —

(a) on the rights conferred by clause (1) (a), such restrictions as it considers necessary or expedient in the interest of the security of Singapore or any part thereof, friendly relations with other countries, public order or morality and restrictions designed to protect the privileges of Parliament or to provide against contempt of court, defamation or incitement to any offence;

(b) on the right conferred by clause (1) (b), such restrictions as it considers necessary or expedient in the interest of the security of Singapore or any part thereof or public order; and

(c) on the right conferred by clause (1) (c), such restrictions as it considers necessary or expedient in the interest of the security of Singapore or any part thereof, public order or morality.

(3) Restrictions on the right to form associations conferred by clause (1) (c) may also be imposed by any law relating to labour or education. 

[end]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The constitutional issue is Article 14:</p>
<p>[start]</p>
<p>Freedom of speech, assembly and association<br />
14. —(1) Subject to clauses (2) and (3) —</p>
<p>(a) every citizen of Singapore has the right to freedom of speech and expression;</p>
<p>(b) all citizens of Singapore have the right to assemble peaceably and without arms; and</p>
<p>(c) all citizens of Singapore have the right to form associations.</p>
<p>[end]</p>
<p>While Article 14(1) is subject to subclauses 14(2) and 14(3), which are:</p>
<p>[start]</p>
<p>(2) Parliament may by law impose —</p>
<p>(a) on the rights conferred by clause (1) (a), such restrictions as it considers necessary or expedient in the interest of the security of Singapore or any part thereof, friendly relations with other countries, public order or morality and restrictions designed to protect the privileges of Parliament or to provide against contempt of court, defamation or incitement to any offence;</p>
<p>(b) on the right conferred by clause (1) (b), such restrictions as it considers necessary or expedient in the interest of the security of Singapore or any part thereof or public order; and</p>
<p>(c) on the right conferred by clause (1) (c), such restrictions as it considers necessary or expedient in the interest of the security of Singapore or any part thereof, public order or morality.</p>
<p>(3) Restrictions on the right to form associations conferred by clause (1) (c) may also be imposed by any law relating to labour or education. </p>
<p>[end]</p>
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		<title>By: Rosetta</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/01/everyone-obeys-the-law/comment-page-1/#comment-43477</link>
		<dc:creator>Rosetta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 04:13:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=4658#comment-43477</guid>
		<description>You know... the most incredible thing about the PAP is not the economical miracle because Hong Kong and other countries managed to develop without our kind of government.

The most amazing thing as demonstrated by the Town council fund management is PAP&#039;s ability to make people believe that they are getting diamonds when in reality they were given lemons.

Don&#039;t you agree?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know&#8230; the most incredible thing about the PAP is not the economical miracle because Hong Kong and other countries managed to develop without our kind of government.</p>
<p>The most amazing thing as demonstrated by the Town council fund management is PAP&#8217;s ability to make people believe that they are getting diamonds when in reality they were given lemons.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t you agree?</p>
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		<title>By: stay safe</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/01/everyone-obeys-the-law/comment-page-1/#comment-43447</link>
		<dc:creator>stay safe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 02:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=4658#comment-43447</guid>
		<description>it depends how safe you want
if you want to be jury, you must also let any tom, dick, hairy be your jury when your are in court

~~~~~ stay safe
tip #1: Use fake email address
tip #2: Use anonymous web servers or proxies (google for list)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it depends how safe you want<br />
if you want to be jury, you must also let any tom, dick, hairy be your jury when your are in court</p>
<p>~~~~~ stay safe<br />
tip #1: Use fake email address<br />
tip #2: Use anonymous web servers or proxies (google for list)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: The SS</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/01/everyone-obeys-the-law/comment-page-1/#comment-43443</link>
		<dc:creator>The SS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 02:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=4658#comment-43443</guid>
		<description>LAW DOES NOT EQUAL JUSTICE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LAW DOES NOT EQUAL JUSTICE.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: To Leanne</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/01/everyone-obeys-the-law/comment-page-1/#comment-43442</link>
		<dc:creator>To Leanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 02:15:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=4658#comment-43442</guid>
		<description>&quot;Jury members may not always rational either.&quot;

If that is so, how do some advanced countries choose to adopt this system. 

What makes you so sure that judges do not have their own bias and as a very learned species of people with utmost eloquence, with tonnes of case law and statues behind them, it is not too difficult for them to justify whatever judgement they wish to mete out. 

21st century knowledge based society lah. It is not too difficult to spot holes if they are any. Good law will always be respected and you do not need the Minister, the AG and the Chief Justice to emphasize this important point at the same time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Jury members may not always rational either.&#8221;</p>
<p>If that is so, how do some advanced countries choose to adopt this system. </p>
<p>What makes you so sure that judges do not have their own bias and as a very learned species of people with utmost eloquence, with tonnes of case law and statues behind them, it is not too difficult for them to justify whatever judgement they wish to mete out. </p>
<p>21st century knowledge based society lah. It is not too difficult to spot holes if they are any. Good law will always be respected and you do not need the Minister, the AG and the Chief Justice to emphasize this important point at the same time.</p>
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		<title>By: netizen</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/01/everyone-obeys-the-law/comment-page-1/#comment-43441</link>
		<dc:creator>netizen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 01:49:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=4658#comment-43441</guid>
		<description>i will be very afraid/worry if the people had learned to exercise their sense of right and wrong.

democracy must begin with the respect of the rule of law - from the heart of the ....people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i will be very afraid/worry if the people had learned to exercise their sense of right and wrong.</p>
<p>democracy must begin with the respect of the rule of law &#8211; from the heart of the &#8230;.people.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Sadder</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/01/everyone-obeys-the-law/comment-page-1/#comment-43437</link>
		<dc:creator>Sadder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 00:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=4658#comment-43437</guid>
		<description>When you are sure of your ability and intregrity , you will willingly agree to peer appraisal or scrutiny by external independant parties. By abolishing appeal to the privy council or any other international court our courts have effectively said no to peer appraisal. Its like a dictator claiming that he is loved by all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you are sure of your ability and intregrity , you will willingly agree to peer appraisal or scrutiny by external independant parties. By abolishing appeal to the privy council or any other international court our courts have effectively said no to peer appraisal. Its like a dictator claiming that he is loved by all.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Leanne</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/01/everyone-obeys-the-law/comment-page-1/#comment-43433</link>
		<dc:creator>Leanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 19:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=4658#comment-43433</guid>
		<description>Voters are not always rational. The Palestinians for example. Jury members may not always rational either. Which institute did you hail from? What have you done to advance the cause of &quot;freedom&quot; in Singapore?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Voters are not always rational. The Palestinians for example. Jury members may not always rational either. Which institute did you hail from? What have you done to advance the cause of &#8220;freedom&#8221; in Singapore?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: moshedyan</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/01/everyone-obeys-the-law/comment-page-1/#comment-43429</link>
		<dc:creator>moshedyan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 17:19:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=4658#comment-43429</guid>
		<description>[i]Leanne on January 5th, 2009 12.37 am We can have the jury if the jury is rational enough. Just like you can have a democracy, but vote in Hamas.
now you want a jury service that is rational enough?
for who again?
for YOU
onced more
where you want the juries to hang every rapist/robbers
and maybe
shoplifters as well?
jury are individuals
who think with their brain and their soul
right to their guts feelin
if we want a robot
we do not need a jury
which is 
WHY
singapore
being a democratic soceity
have no JUROR
till TODAY...
where you graduate from?
pap kindergardens institue?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[i]Leanne on January 5th, 2009 12.37 am We can have the jury if the jury is rational enough. Just like you can have a democracy, but vote in Hamas.<br />
now you want a jury service that is rational enough?<br />
for who again?<br />
for YOU<br />
onced more<br />
where you want the juries to hang every rapist/robbers<br />
and maybe<br />
shoplifters as well?<br />
jury are individuals<br />
who think with their brain and their soul<br />
right to their guts feelin<br />
if we want a robot<br />
we do not need a jury<br />
which is<br />
WHY<br />
singapore<br />
being a democratic soceity<br />
have no JUROR<br />
till TODAY&#8230;<br />
where you graduate from?<br />
pap kindergardens institue?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Leanne</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/01/everyone-obeys-the-law/comment-page-1/#comment-43423</link>
		<dc:creator>Leanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:37:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=4658#comment-43423</guid>
		<description>We can have the jury if the jury is rational enough. Just like you can have a democracy, but vote in Hamas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We can have the jury if the jury is rational enough. Just like you can have a democracy, but vote in Hamas.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Leanne</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/01/everyone-obeys-the-law/comment-page-1/#comment-43420</link>
		<dc:creator>Leanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=4658#comment-43420</guid>
		<description>Tell that to S Saw and C Sim, students who love SG to bits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tell that to S Saw and C Sim, students who love SG to bits.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: oldman</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/01/everyone-obeys-the-law/comment-page-1/#comment-43409</link>
		<dc:creator>oldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 15:15:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=4658#comment-43409</guid>
		<description>Whose Law is that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whose Law is that?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: tiredsingaporean</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/01/everyone-obeys-the-law/comment-page-1/#comment-43404</link>
		<dc:creator>tiredsingaporean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=4658#comment-43404</guid>
		<description>This is damn bloody OBVIOUS who is behind all these arrangements just to protect himself and his party. The IBA should kick us out of their association since many attempts to bring our system in place are not just being ignored but instead being challenged.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is damn bloody OBVIOUS who is behind all these arrangements just to protect himself and his party. The IBA should kick us out of their association since many attempts to bring our system in place are not just being ignored but instead being challenged.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/01/everyone-obeys-the-law/comment-page-1/#comment-43390</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:21:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=4658#comment-43390</guid>
		<description>Not only a court verdict has to be just and fair, but also seen to be just and fair.

Why the court are presided by judges only?  Where are the jury? 

In colonial days, Singapore courts had jury.  Guess who disband the jury?  

Hong Kong likewise inherited the same British legal system. Hong Kong is now part of China, but its courts still have jury.

Why Singapore courts are different from other courts of the Commonwealth countries?  Why Singapore rely on judges decision and not common men&#039;s decision?  Think and you will see why?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not only a court verdict has to be just and fair, but also seen to be just and fair.</p>
<p>Why the court are presided by judges only?  Where are the jury? </p>
<p>In colonial days, Singapore courts had jury.  Guess who disband the jury?  </p>
<p>Hong Kong likewise inherited the same British legal system. Hong Kong is now part of China, but its courts still have jury.</p>
<p>Why Singapore courts are different from other courts of the Commonwealth countries?  Why Singapore rely on judges decision and not common men&#8217;s decision?  Think and you will see why?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Martyn See</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/01/everyone-obeys-the-law/comment-page-1/#comment-43389</link>
		<dc:creator>Martyn See</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=4658#comment-43389</guid>
		<description>What has the Singapore judiciary achieved?

Have they safeguarded the citizens&#039; constitutional rights to freedom of speech and assembly? No

Have they improved its own reputation? No

Did they set a deterrence after the convictions of the recent contempt of court cases? No evidence of that so far

Instead, Gopalan Nair has since rebewed his attacks, WSJ remains unrepetent, youtube videos of Mohd Shafie, Isrizal and John Tan showed them walking out of prison smiling amid cheers from supporters.

If the reputation of the Singapore judiciary is truly first-class, then there&#039;s no compulsion to jail its own citizens for wearing T-shirts...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What has the Singapore judiciary achieved?</p>
<p>Have they safeguarded the citizens&#8217; constitutional rights to freedom of speech and assembly? No</p>
<p>Have they improved its own reputation? No</p>
<p>Did they set a deterrence after the convictions of the recent contempt of court cases? No evidence of that so far</p>
<p>Instead, Gopalan Nair has since rebewed his attacks, WSJ remains unrepetent, youtube videos of Mohd Shafie, Isrizal and John Tan showed them walking out of prison smiling amid cheers from supporters.</p>
<p>If the reputation of the Singapore judiciary is truly first-class, then there&#8217;s no compulsion to jail its own citizens for wearing T-shirts&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Amy</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/01/everyone-obeys-the-law/comment-page-1/#comment-43388</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:12:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=4658#comment-43388</guid>
		<description>Thanks to the 66% this is what you get when people sold off their rights.
Anything that papee says IS law.

If next time they pass a law that all ministers will be paid 1 billion annual salary while all common people will be paid $300, everyone will have to obey ok?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to the 66% this is what you get when people sold off their rights.<br />
Anything that papee says IS law.</p>
<p>If next time they pass a law that all ministers will be paid 1 billion annual salary while all common people will be paid $300, everyone will have to obey ok?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: 1st commentor</title>
		<link>http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/01/everyone-obeys-the-law/comment-page-1/#comment-43387</link>
		<dc:creator>1st commentor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:03:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=4658#comment-43387</guid>
		<description>Hey you want to post confusing stuff that&#039;s fine, just don&#039;t take up so much space lah, by the time I ignore and scroll down to the next comment wasting so much space.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey you want to post confusing stuff that&#8217;s fine, just don&#8217;t take up so much space lah, by the time I ignore and scroll down to the next comment wasting so much space.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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